World Peace should be suspended for the rest of the Lakers season. Absolutely disgusting. And how can you say that it wasn't intentional with his history, the amount of force he put into it, and the fact that he didn't even LOOK at Harden after nailing him in the side of the head. I really hope Harden will be able to play 100% in the playoffs.
On April 23 2012 13:40 scarper65 wrote: World Peace should be suspended for the rest of the Lakers season. Absolutely disgusting. And how can you say that it wasn't intentional with his history, the amount of force he put into it, and the fact that he didn't even LOOK at Harden after nailing him in the side of the head. I really hope Harden will be able to play 100% in the playoffs.
See the difference here is that you're using his history as a reason why it definitely WAS intentional.
I'm not jumping to that same conclusion. You're using an appeal to tradition fallacy which basically means just because something is one way means it should always stay that way.
I don't know whether or not it was intentional, but using his history as evidence for why it was is weak. It's simply weak.
On April 23 2012 12:55 XaI)CyRiC wrote: First of all, all this talk about how Lakers fans are all uninformed and biased is just stupid. There are good and bad members of every group of fans, there just happen to be a lot of Lakers fans in total so there are more idiots as well. I've seen uninformed and stupid posts/opinions from every group of fans.
As for the Artest elbow, it's clearly an inexcusable act that deserves a severe penalty. I'm not sure how severe the punishment should be, but I think the issue is the potential for serious injury from such a blow and the league having an interest in making sure no player ever does it again. However, I do agree with those who are saying that it doesn't look like Artest was intending to take Harden out like that.
Yes, the hit was not in any way related to playing basketball and Artest was clearly not just trying to get past Harden or push him aside. However, it looks like Artest got too fired up by his dunk and the moment, and lashed out in a terrible way in the heat of the moment. The physicality of the game probably contributed too. This isn't a situation where one player goes up to another to confront them and tries to punch/elbow/start a fight. I don't see any sign that Artest was thinking at all at that moment. It looks more like his brain was on fire or something and he just lashed out in the most primitive and visceral way possible.
He did a terrible thing, but I don't think it looks like he intentionally attacked Harden or was targeting him. It looks more like Harden had the misfortune of getting in the way of an out-of-his-mind Artest who got too fired up. However, that's no excuse for the elbow and I wouldn't blame the league for handing out a penalty like missing the whole playoffs. Damn shame because he had come so far from the Malice in the Palace, and was just starting to play well again.
I have to disagree. You have to take into consideration Artest's histoy. That elbow was thrown with bad intentions, and although Artest didn't seem to care where it hit, it does not deny the fact that he did throw that elbow. To aggravate that point, he didn't even look to check on Harden. It was a plain thug move that does not belong in the NBA. I understand the arguement that "he was celebrating a dunk and got fired up", but would Wade or Nash do that? There are sportsmanship standards to consider.
Umm. Does Artest seem like the kind of person that would sucker punch someone like that? Like think back to the Malice for a second here and think about what he did then, to a total stranger and a fan. Do you think he would cowardly deck someone, a fellow player in this case, in a live game?
He's done silly stuff like pull pants and throw opposing player's shoes, but in all his "history", physical confrontation for MWP has never been to sucker punch someone or blindside someone. So for all of you recalling history, do realize the contents of said history instead of just calling it "history" and thinking that fight = fight or even violence = violence. The intention is clearly not there compared to the Malice where Artest got up and ran towards the fan(s).
Also, comparing Artest to Wade and Nash is the equivalent of comparing Kobe to Lebron or Paul to Stockton or Shaq to D12, you see why those kind of comparisons fall flat on their faces? They're different people and trying to egg basket all of them into one vaguely defined category is incredibly short-sighted.
On April 23 2012 13:40 scarper65 wrote: World Peace should be suspended for the rest of the Lakers season. Absolutely disgusting. And how can you say that it wasn't intentional with his history, the amount of force he put into it, and the fact that he didn't even LOOK at Harden after nailing him in the side of the head. I really hope Harden will be able to play 100% in the playoffs.
See the difference here is that you're using his history as a reason why it definitely WAS intentional.
I'm not jumping to that same conclusion. You're using an appeal to tradition fallacy which basically means just because something is one way means it should always stay that way.
I don't know whether or not it was intentional, but using his history as evidence for why it was is weak. It's simply weak.
If I accidentally bump into someone, I apologize. That's normal. Elbowing someone in the fucking head and not even glancing in their direction means that either it was intentional, or it was an accident and he doesn't give a fuck. Either way there is something wrong with him and there needs to be some serious punishment.
On April 23 2012 13:38 DystopiaX wrote: Also I don't think walking into him means it's his fault. Players walk into each other all the time, it just happened that he threw an elbow after (which made it his fault at that point, but not before)
It is his fault as in it is likely he got angry when he thought Harden was up in his face, when it obviously wasn't. Riled himself over nothing which lead to the elbow. The mindset that the other people wronged you despite being ignorant of the fact that you're the one doing the wrong.
if you watch it in slow motion, they were touching for a good half a second before ron artest (i refuse to call him his other name) even began to wind up his elbow. It is without a doubt easy to make the realization that someone is next to you when they are touching you. There is also no sign of surprise after the hit, no sign of remorse. And no way was he trying to beat his chest. Challenge yourself in trying to beat your chest in 10 different ways and you'll find that none of those ways look even remotely similar to ron artest's arm's motion.
He looks like he flailed his arm to break free, from what he thought was Harden getting in his way/holding him back. Not at all malicious, more like a "get the fuck off me bro" move.
On April 23 2012 13:38 DystopiaX wrote: Also I don't think walking into him means it's his fault. Players walk into each other all the time, it just happened that he threw an elbow after (which made it his fault at that point, but not before)
It is his fault as in it is likely he got angry when he thought Harden was up in his face, when it obviously wasn't. Riled himself over nothing which lead to the elbow. The mindset that the other people wronged you despite being ignorant of the fact that you're the one doing the wrong.
On April 23 2012 12:55 XaI)CyRiC wrote: First of all, all this talk about how Lakers fans are all uninformed and biased is just stupid. There are good and bad members of every group of fans, there just happen to be a lot of Lakers fans in total so there are more idiots as well. I've seen uninformed and stupid posts/opinions from every group of fans.
As for the Artest elbow, it's clearly an inexcusable act that deserves a severe penalty. I'm not sure how severe the punishment should be, but I think the issue is the potential for serious injury from such a blow and the league having an interest in making sure no player ever does it again. However, I do agree with those who are saying that it doesn't look like Artest was intending to take Harden out like that.
Yes, the hit was not in any way related to playing basketball and Artest was clearly not just trying to get past Harden or push him aside. However, it looks like Artest got too fired up by his dunk and the moment, and lashed out in a terrible way in the heat of the moment. The physicality of the game probably contributed too. This isn't a situation where one player goes up to another to confront them and tries to punch/elbow/start a fight. I don't see any sign that Artest was thinking at all at that moment. It looks more like his brain was on fire or something and he just lashed out in the most primitive and visceral way possible.
He did a terrible thing, but I don't think it looks like he intentionally attacked Harden or was targeting him. It looks more like Harden had the misfortune of getting in the way of an out-of-his-mind Artest who got too fired up. However, that's no excuse for the elbow and I wouldn't blame the league for handing out a penalty like missing the whole playoffs. Damn shame because he had come so far from the Malice in the Palace, and was just starting to play well again.
I have to disagree. You have to take into consideration Artest's histoy. That elbow was thrown with bad intentions, and although Artest didn't seem to care where it hit, it does not deny the fact that he did throw that elbow. To aggravate that point, he didn't even look to check on Harden. It was a plain thug move that does not belong in the NBA. I understand the arguement that "he was celebrating a dunk and got fired up", but would Wade or Nash do that? There are sportsmanship standards to consider.
Umm. Does Artest seem like the kind of person that would sucker punch someone like that? Like think back to the Malice for a second here and think about what he did then, to a total stranger and a fan. Do you think he would cowardly deck someone, a fellow player in this case, in a live game?
He's done silly stuff like pull pants and throw opposing player's shoes, but in all his "history", physical confrontation for MWP has never been to sucker punch someone or blindside someone. So for all of you recalling history, do realize the contents of said history instead of just calling it "history" and thinking that fight = fight or even violence = violence. The intention is clearly not there compared to the Malice where Artest got up and ran towards the fan(s).
Also, comparing Artest to Wade and Nash is the equivalent of comparing Kobe to Lebron or Paul to Stockton or Shaq to D12, you see why those kind of comparisons fall flat on their faces? They're different people and trying to egg basket all of them into one vaguely defined category is incredibly short-sighted.
He was just suspended last playoffs for a cheapshot on JJ Barea, so I don't put it past him
On April 23 2012 12:55 XaI)CyRiC wrote: First of all, all this talk about how Lakers fans are all uninformed and biased is just stupid. There are good and bad members of every group of fans, there just happen to be a lot of Lakers fans in total so there are more idiots as well. I've seen uninformed and stupid posts/opinions from every group of fans.
As for the Artest elbow, it's clearly an inexcusable act that deserves a severe penalty. I'm not sure how severe the punishment should be, but I think the issue is the potential for serious injury from such a blow and the league having an interest in making sure no player ever does it again. However, I do agree with those who are saying that it doesn't look like Artest was intending to take Harden out like that.
Yes, the hit was not in any way related to playing basketball and Artest was clearly not just trying to get past Harden or push him aside. However, it looks like Artest got too fired up by his dunk and the moment, and lashed out in a terrible way in the heat of the moment. The physicality of the game probably contributed too. This isn't a situation where one player goes up to another to confront them and tries to punch/elbow/start a fight. I don't see any sign that Artest was thinking at all at that moment. It looks more like his brain was on fire or something and he just lashed out in the most primitive and visceral way possible.
He did a terrible thing, but I don't think it looks like he intentionally attacked Harden or was targeting him. It looks more like Harden had the misfortune of getting in the way of an out-of-his-mind Artest who got too fired up. However, that's no excuse for the elbow and I wouldn't blame the league for handing out a penalty like missing the whole playoffs. Damn shame because he had come so far from the Malice in the Palace, and was just starting to play well again.
I have to disagree. You have to take into consideration Artest's histoy. That elbow was thrown with bad intentions, and although Artest didn't seem to care where it hit, it does not deny the fact that he did throw that elbow. To aggravate that point, he didn't even look to check on Harden. It was a plain thug move that does not belong in the NBA. I understand the arguement that "he was celebrating a dunk and got fired up", but would Wade or Nash do that? There are sportsmanship standards to consider.
Umm. Does Artest seem like the kind of person that would sucker punch someone like that? Like think back to the Malice for a second here and think about what he did then, to a total stranger and a fan. Do you think he would cowardly deck someone, a fellow player in this case, in a live game?
He's done silly stuff like pull pants and throw opposing player's shoes, but in all his "history", physical confrontation for MWP has never been to sucker punch someone or blindside someone. So for all of you recalling history, do realize the contents of said history instead of just calling it "history" and thinking that fight = fight or even violence = violence. The intention is clearly not there compared to the Malice where Artest got up and ran towards the fan(s).
Also, comparing Artest to Wade and Nash is the equivalent of comparing Kobe to Lebron or Paul to Stockton or Shaq to D12, you see why those kind of comparisons fall flat on their faces? They're different people and trying to egg basket all of them into one vaguely defined category is incredibly short-sighted.
He was just suspended last playoffs for a cheapshot on JJ Barea, so I don't put it past him
Wasn't that Bynum and not Artest? Or was Artest suspended too?
If that was actually a "get the fuck off me bro" move then he could have just kept extending his arm away from himself to push Harden off since that's how you normally push somebody away. You can lift the whole arm at the shoulder and push with whole arm, or you open your elbow and push off with your forearm.
Instead he brought his arm back across his body and threw a shoulder height elbow.
And to break free from what in the first place? He wasn't even getting held there, Harden was stepped/stepping back so there was no reason fro him to "flail around" to begin with.
I don't see anything that points to him not purposely elbowing Harden in the face. He wasn't celebrating, he wasn't trying to push Harden out of his way. He very clearly wanted to connect his elbow to Harden's head.
On April 23 2012 12:55 XaI)CyRiC wrote: First of all, all this talk about how Lakers fans are all uninformed and biased is just stupid. There are good and bad members of every group of fans, there just happen to be a lot of Lakers fans in total so there are more idiots as well. I've seen uninformed and stupid posts/opinions from every group of fans.
As for the Artest elbow, it's clearly an inexcusable act that deserves a severe penalty. I'm not sure how severe the punishment should be, but I think the issue is the potential for serious injury from such a blow and the league having an interest in making sure no player ever does it again. However, I do agree with those who are saying that it doesn't look like Artest was intending to take Harden out like that.
Yes, the hit was not in any way related to playing basketball and Artest was clearly not just trying to get past Harden or push him aside. However, it looks like Artest got too fired up by his dunk and the moment, and lashed out in a terrible way in the heat of the moment. The physicality of the game probably contributed too. This isn't a situation where one player goes up to another to confront them and tries to punch/elbow/start a fight. I don't see any sign that Artest was thinking at all at that moment. It looks more like his brain was on fire or something and he just lashed out in the most primitive and visceral way possible.
He did a terrible thing, but I don't think it looks like he intentionally attacked Harden or was targeting him. It looks more like Harden had the misfortune of getting in the way of an out-of-his-mind Artest who got too fired up. However, that's no excuse for the elbow and I wouldn't blame the league for handing out a penalty like missing the whole playoffs. Damn shame because he had come so far from the Malice in the Palace, and was just starting to play well again.
I have to disagree. You have to take into consideration Artest's histoy. That elbow was thrown with bad intentions, and although Artest didn't seem to care where it hit, it does not deny the fact that he did throw that elbow. To aggravate that point, he didn't even look to check on Harden. It was a plain thug move that does not belong in the NBA. I understand the arguement that "he was celebrating a dunk and got fired up", but would Wade or Nash do that? There are sportsmanship standards to consider.
Umm. Does Artest seem like the kind of person that would sucker punch someone like that? Like think back to the Malice for a second here and think about what he did then, to a total stranger and a fan. Do you think he would cowardly deck someone, a fellow player in this case, in a live game?
He's done silly stuff like pull pants and throw opposing player's shoes, but in all his "history", physical confrontation for MWP has never been to sucker punch someone or blindside someone. So for all of you recalling history, do realize the contents of said history instead of just calling it "history" and thinking that fight = fight or even violence = violence. The intention is clearly not there compared to the Malice where Artest got up and ran towards the fan(s).
Also, comparing Artest to Wade and Nash is the equivalent of comparing Kobe to Lebron or Paul to Stockton or Shaq to D12, you see why those kind of comparisons fall flat on their faces? They're different people and trying to egg basket all of them into one vaguely defined category is incredibly short-sighted.
He was just suspended last playoffs for a cheapshot on JJ Barea, so I don't put it past him
I think a 10 game suspension would be fair, but knowing the league it could be more. In any case I don't expect him to play this season unless the Lakers win 2 rounds.
On April 23 2012 12:55 XaI)CyRiC wrote: First of all, all this talk about how Lakers fans are all uninformed and biased is just stupid. There are good and bad members of every group of fans, there just happen to be a lot of Lakers fans in total so there are more idiots as well. I've seen uninformed and stupid posts/opinions from every group of fans.
As for the Artest elbow, it's clearly an inexcusable act that deserves a severe penalty. I'm not sure how severe the punishment should be, but I think the issue is the potential for serious injury from such a blow and the league having an interest in making sure no player ever does it again. However, I do agree with those who are saying that it doesn't look like Artest was intending to take Harden out like that.
Yes, the hit was not in any way related to playing basketball and Artest was clearly not just trying to get past Harden or push him aside. However, it looks like Artest got too fired up by his dunk and the moment, and lashed out in a terrible way in the heat of the moment. The physicality of the game probably contributed too. This isn't a situation where one player goes up to another to confront them and tries to punch/elbow/start a fight. I don't see any sign that Artest was thinking at all at that moment. It looks more like his brain was on fire or something and he just lashed out in the most primitive and visceral way possible.
He did a terrible thing, but I don't think it looks like he intentionally attacked Harden or was targeting him. It looks more like Harden had the misfortune of getting in the way of an out-of-his-mind Artest who got too fired up. However, that's no excuse for the elbow and I wouldn't blame the league for handing out a penalty like missing the whole playoffs. Damn shame because he had come so far from the Malice in the Palace, and was just starting to play well again.
I have to disagree. You have to take into consideration Artest's histoy. That elbow was thrown with bad intentions, and although Artest didn't seem to care where it hit, it does not deny the fact that he did throw that elbow. To aggravate that point, he didn't even look to check on Harden. It was a plain thug move that does not belong in the NBA. I understand the arguement that "he was celebrating a dunk and got fired up", but would Wade or Nash do that? There are sportsmanship standards to consider.
Umm. Does Artest seem like the kind of person that would sucker punch someone like that? Like think back to the Malice for a second here and think about what he did then, to a total stranger and a fan. Do you think he would cowardly deck someone, a fellow player in this case, in a live game?
He's done silly stuff like pull pants and throw opposing player's shoes, but in all his "history", physical confrontation for MWP has never been to sucker punch someone or blindside someone. So for all of you recalling history, do realize the contents of said history instead of just calling it "history" and thinking that fight = fight or even violence = violence. The intention is clearly not there compared to the Malice where Artest got up and ran towards the fan(s).
Also, comparing Artest to Wade and Nash is the equivalent of comparing Kobe to Lebron or Paul to Stockton or Shaq to D12, you see why those kind of comparisons fall flat on their faces? They're different people and trying to egg basket all of them into one vaguely defined category is incredibly short-sighted.
He was just suspended last playoffs for a cheapshot on JJ Barea, so I don't put it past him
That was Bynum.
I think you forgot about this:
Lakers forward Ron Artest was suspended one game without pay for his foul on Mavericks guard Jose Juan Barea in Game 2 of the Western Conference semifinals series against Dallas.
Since we're fixated on visuals, the question that jumped into everyone's mind was how long will World Peace be suspended after his vicious elbow drew a flagrant-2 foul? According to this unofficial compilation of NBA fines and suspensions dating back to the 1994-95 season, elbow violations have been repeatedly subject to one- and two-game suspensions. Suspensions that last 10 games or more have generally been for punches thrown at players or fans. Or choking a coach. Or bringing guns into the locker room.
Metta World Peace knocked James Harden out of a Sunday afternoon game at Staples Center. It's not clear when Harden will be able to return to the court.
The Oklahoman reported that Harden was diagnosed with a concussion after taking World Peace's swinging left elbow to his head during the second quarter of Sunday's game between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Los Angeles Lakers.
As such, Harden will be subject to the NBA's new concussion policy, which mandates that Dr. Jeffrey Kutcher, a professor of neurology at the University of Michigan and the Director of the NBA's Concussion Program, must independently clear Harden before he can return to the court.
The Oklahoman reported that it "could be a few days" before Harden is able to receive said clearance and that he did not address reporters on Sunday. It's not clear whether he will be able to play in OKC's two remaining regular season games.
Harden was evaluated multiple times during Sunday's game and did not return to action. Harden was knocked from the game after posting 14 points, 3 assists and 1 steal on 5-for-7 shooting in 13 minutes.
The Thunder conclude their 2011-2012 regular season schedule by hosting the Sacramento Kings on Tuesday and the Denver Nuggets on Thursday. The Thunder are currently the No. 2 seed in the Western Conference, with a record of 46-18, and would face the Dallas Mavericks if the playoffs began on Sunday.
After the game, World Peace apologized for his actions and said that the foul was "unintentional."
Harden's close friend and teammate, All-Star forward Kevin Durant, called the play "unfortunate" during a televised halftime interview.
The Lakers went on to defeat the Thunder 114-106 in double overtime.
Here's video of James Harden receiving a concussion from Metta World Peace's swinging left elbow.
He should be thrown out. Artest wasn't taking him out a la the Saints, but he was definitely unhinged. He can fight in the UFC once they start an event for sucker punching smaller people. Considering his terrible history and the standard LA has set in the past for such behavior he should be banned from the NBA. I want to hurry up the evolution of LA Lakers fans as quickly as possible. Maybe they can reach the level of chimpanzees by 2020!
I think saying he was unhinged is an overreaction. Terrible history is one thing but you can't use that to judge this isolated incident, except perhaps to prove that it's more unlikely it was an accident than if some other player did it. But as others have pointed out other players have thrown elbows and have not received anything close to a 10 game or even lifetime ban. Making a punishment harsher for World Peace for the same crime others have committed in the NBA would be both unjust and setting a bad precedent for future NBA suspensions.
I'll ignore the part about LA fans cause I'm from Chicago and not a Lakers fan at all. I also have no idea what Lakers fans have to do with Artest elbowing someone. As far as I can tell they didn't ask him to do it or anything.
On April 23 2012 17:09 justinpal wrote: Considering his terrible history and the standard LA has set in the past for such behavior he should be banned from the NBA. I want to hurry up the evolution of LA Lakers fans as quickly as possible. Maybe they can reach the level of chimpanzees by 2020!
What standard has LA set for such behavior? That it is acceptable?
On April 23 2012 17:30 DystopiaX wrote: I'll ignore the part about LA fans cause I'm from Chicago and not a Lakers fan at all. I also have no idea what Lakers fans have to do with Artest elbowing someone. As far as I can tell they didn't ask him to do it or anything.
The fact that LA fans applauded Ron Artest as he walked to the locker room and gave him high fives on his way out.
On April 23 2012 17:30 DystopiaX wrote: I think saying he was unhinged is an overreaction. Terrible history is one thing but you can't use that to judge this isolated incident, except perhaps to prove that it's more unlikely it was an accident than if some other player did it. But as others have pointed out other players have thrown elbows and have not received anything close to a 10 game or even lifetime ban. Making a punishment harsher for World Peace for the same crime others have committed in the NBA would be both unjust and setting a bad precedent for future NBA suspensions.
I'll ignore the part about LA fans cause I'm from Chicago and not a Lakers fan at all. I also have no idea what Lakers fans have to do with Artest elbowing someone. As far as I can tell they didn't ask him to do it or anything.
You absolutely have to look at his history to come up with a correct punishment. This isn't a one off thing from Artest. We are talking about a guy who got the longest suspension ever due to a violent act. And here he is again, committing a violent act. The more offenses a player has, the harsher the punishment should be. Just like your first offense of breaking the law has a lesser penalty than your third or fourth. Or in Ron's case his 13th.
EPT
