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On September 29 2012 09:13 Azuzu wrote:
I haven't really leveled much but ... battle pets are a ton of fun! It's the pokemon MMO we never had (albeit vastly simplified mechanics). Really hope they keep expanding on it!
Pet battles are less balanced than Warhounds in HOTS, though. Then again Blizzard isn't exactly known for class balance in WoW to begin with so I'm not sure what I was expecting. It would be fun if they eventually balanced it for tournament play or something, though.
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On September 29 2012 04:11 deepfield1 wrote:
Heroics required CC at the very start of TBC because they were not properly tuned. They quickly got nerfed.
At this time heroics were also super un-fun and painful.
Requiring CC wasn't a bad thing (Unless you were one of those incompetent people that didn't have the dexterity or focus to be able to target a mob and press your classes CC button). That is how heroics should be.
Having a paladin tank just be able to run in now and smash their face on the consecrate button while sitting at a comfortable 85% hp is just dumb. Back in the day tanks were actually punished by AoE tanking stuff and electing not to have their group CC (Because of taking very heavy damage). Now.. Not so much the case.
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Are you fucking serious? Every normal trashmob could 1-hit you in TBC Heroics! You had to KITE Mobs, because they were CC-immune and hit like trucks.
TBC was great (until the very end) and Wrath of the LK was the start of the end...
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On September 29 2012 09:00 OKMarius wrote:Yeah Mech was pretty much the only heroic I did early tbc, along with Slave pens Shattered halls, Arcatraz and Dark Portal were the hardest in early tbc imo due to them punishing lack of gear more than the others. Shadow labs was relatively easy even with bad gear if people knew the tacts. 
Dark portal really wasn't that hard, the reason shadow labyrinth could be considered hard was because mobs feared and it was easy to pull too much, and the felguards hit like fucking trucks and could potentially 1-2 shot your tank if he wasn't decked out in epics. But yeah, shattered halls and arcatraz were harder, no doubt.
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United States24805 Posts
On September 29 2012 09:38 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 04:35 Quenchiest wrote:On September 29 2012 04:11 deepfield1 wrote:
Heroics required CC at the very start of TBC because they were not properly tuned. They quickly got nerfed.
At this time heroics were also super un-fun and painful.
Quickly nerfed? I think you're mis-remembering TBC a little bit. Heroics weren't nerfed until very late in the expansion when EVERYTHING got nerfed in preparation for WotLK. Heroics were constantly considered harder than Karazhan, and groups wouldn't even give you a second look if you weren't already in epics. TBC was an odd time for 5 man dungeons. Hell, with heroics if you were a warrior tank people would actually turn you down, citing they wanted only paladins and druids because warriors were absolutely horrendous at AoE tanking. Were they un-fun and painful though? I don't know. I honestly really enjoyed the challenge a lot of them provided. ] No offense.. But some of you seem like really bad players to be talking about how tbc heroics were so insanely difficult. They weren't hard. What made them hard was having idiots without brains in your group. (for example: Having a drooler hunter that didn't know how to trap / chain-trap. Or mages that didn't have the presence of mind (no pun intended) to sheep something again after it breaks the first one. The heroics themselves weren't overly gear dependent or difficult.. But they punished retards, unlike the content that is out now. I remember doing the larger pulls in heroic slave pens back in the day.. One idiot in your group and it was gg, you're chain wiping and not finishing the place. Content was way more fun that way. Now its just dumbed down to an outrageous extent, and is why I'm not touching this game again. Nowadays a tank can just charge in and aoe tank the shit out of stuff without having to break a sweat (because of not having to worry about dropping below 75% hp).. And then all the dps in the group has to worry about is smashing their face on 1,2,3 to do damage.
Why do you only refer to players who aren't good as dumb? Is it possible to 'have brains' and not know proper wow strategy? Jeesh...
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Must admit, I miss stance dancing to dodge the fears in shadow labs, took timing and awareness. I can't think I've actually clicked on berserker stance once since I re-subbed.
The problem with BC heroics is once you had epics, (even full set of Kara/t4 level stuff) it was a pain to hold threat because you wouldn't get any rage due to the lack of damage taking. I can remember tanking shadow labs without a pair of pants on just to remove some defensive stats and allow for some rage gen.
I do like some of the boss mechanics that I've seen so far in MoP heroics, nothing difficult, but keeps you moving and aware of things. Has anyone actually raided yet? are they even open?
I know they aren't for raid finder but I haven't heard anything about guilds actually killing stuff.
Also the content is easier, but it's also because many players are now veterens of 7-8 years. Not like vanilla which was everyone's first attempts at it, and TBC which opened the door to many more raiders who couldn't/didn't raid in Vanilla. If anything the fights are more complex at times, it's just the player base has improved a lot since the game launched.
(well mostly..)
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On September 29 2012 10:13 Gingerninja wrote:
Must admit, I miss stance dancing to dodge the fears in shadow labs, took timing and awareness. I can't think I've actually clicked on berserker stance once since I re-subbed.
The problem with BC heroics is once you had epics, (even full set of Kara/t4 level stuff) it was a pain to hold threat because you wouldn't get any rage due to the lack of damage taking. I can remember tanking shadow labs without a pair of pants on just to remove some defensive stats and allow for some rage gen.
I do like some of the boss mechanics that I've seen so far in MoP heroics, nothing difficult, but keeps you moving and aware of things. Has anyone actually raided yet? are they even open?
I know they aren't for raid finder but I haven't heard anything about guilds actually killing stuff.
Also the content is easier, but it's also because many players are now veterens of 7-8 years. Not like vanilla which was everyone's first attempts at it, and TBC which opened the door to many more raiders who couldn't/didn't raid in Vanilla. If anything the fights are more complex at times, it's just the player base has improved a lot since the game launched.
(well mostly..)
did you only tank or something? i guess playing arms would be a viable answer too i guess
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I used to be my guilds MT back in TBC, but I played arms pvp during wrath as I stopped raiding and concentrated on Uni.
I only got back like a month ago, so I quickly levelled my main and alts up before MoP.
I assume Zerker is fury only then ? because I've never once used it as Arms or Prot in the last month.
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On September 29 2012 09:38 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 04:35 Quenchiest wrote:On September 29 2012 04:11 deepfield1 wrote:
Heroics required CC at the very start of TBC because they were not properly tuned. They quickly got nerfed.
At this time heroics were also super un-fun and painful.
Quickly nerfed? I think you're mis-remembering TBC a little bit. Heroics weren't nerfed until very late in the expansion when EVERYTHING got nerfed in preparation for WotLK. Heroics were constantly considered harder than Karazhan, and groups wouldn't even give you a second look if you weren't already in epics. TBC was an odd time for 5 man dungeons. Hell, with heroics if you were a warrior tank people would actually turn you down, citing they wanted only paladins and druids because warriors were absolutely horrendous at AoE tanking. Were they un-fun and painful though? I don't know. I honestly really enjoyed the challenge a lot of them provided. ] No offense.. But some of you seem like really bad players to be talking about how tbc heroics were so insanely difficult. They weren't hard. What made them hard was having idiots without brains in your group. (for example: Having a drooler hunter that didn't know how to trap / chain-trap. Or mages that didn't have the presence of mind (no pun intended) to sheep something again after it breaks the first one. The heroics themselves weren't overly gear dependent or difficult.. But they punished retards, unlike the content that is out now. I remember doing the larger pulls in heroic slave pens back in the day.. One idiot in your group and it was gg, you're chain wiping and not finishing the place. Content was way more fun that way. Now its just dumbed down to an outrageous extent, and is why I'm not touching this game again. Nowadays a tank can just charge in and aoe tank the shit out of stuff without having to break a sweat (because of not having to worry about dropping below 75% hp).. And then all the dps in the group has to worry about is smashing their face on 1,2,3 to do damage.
I think you're wrong. Slave Pens was an ezpz heroic, especially since you could skip like 90% of the mobs. BC however had some really stupidly hard heroics like Crypts and Mechanar. Crypts had those mind control adds that would spawn after the initiation. If you didn't catch them in time, they would basically wipe your group. And then there were those bullshit knockback mines that would ohko u off the bridge. Mechanar had those endless waves of trash and more mind control bullshit. That was really hard to deal w/ back in the day when replenishment was a shadow priest only buff.
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On September 29 2012 10:38 Gingerninja wrote:
I used to be my guilds MT back in TBC, but I played arms pvp during wrath as I stopped raiding and concentrated on Uni.
I only got back like a month ago, so I quickly levelled my main and alts up before MoP.
I assume Zerker is fury only then ? because I've never once used it as Arms or Prot in the last month.
Yes its basically fury only
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Must admit, I miss stance dancing to dodge the fears in shadow labs, took timing and awareness
Thats one of 1000 reasons WoW became so terrible boring. I could tell like 100 things they removed from the hunter, that made the game less fun (petspeed, pet-atkspeed, pet-spelltraining, pet-loyality, pet-happieness, ammo, quiever...)
All these things made the game more fun and Blizzard did this basically with every class, profession and gamegplay-mechanic...
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Australia7069 Posts
On September 29 2012 10:13 Gingerninja wrote:
Must admit, I miss stance dancing to dodge the fears in shadow labs, took timing and awareness. I can't think I've actually clicked on berserker stance once since I re-subbed.
The problem with BC heroics is once you had epics, (even full set of Kara/t4 level stuff) it was a pain to hold threat because you wouldn't get any rage due to the lack of damage taking. I can remember tanking shadow labs without a pair of pants on just to remove some defensive stats and allow for some rage gen.
I do like some of the boss mechanics that I've seen so far in MoP heroics, nothing difficult, but keeps you moving and aware of things. Has anyone actually raided yet? are they even open?
I know they aren't for raid finder but I haven't heard anything about guilds actually killing stuff.
Also the content is easier, but it's also because many players are now veterens of 7-8 years. Not like vanilla which was everyone's first attempts at it, and TBC which opened the door to many more raiders who couldn't/didn't raid in Vanilla. If anything the fights are more complex at times, it's just the player base has improved a lot since the game launched.
(well mostly..)
Jokes on you, i always play wow without pants
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On September 29 2012 10:01 Canas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:00 OKMarius wrote:Yeah Mech was pretty much the only heroic I did early tbc, along with Slave pens Shattered halls, Arcatraz and Dark Portal were the hardest in early tbc imo due to them punishing lack of gear more than the others. Shadow labs was relatively easy even with bad gear if people knew the tacts. Dark portal really wasn't that hard, the reason shadow labyrinth could be considered hard was because mobs feared and it was easy to pull too much, and the felguards hit like fucking trucks and could potentially 1-2 shot your tank if he wasn't decked out in epics. But yeah, shattered halls and arcatraz were harder, no doubt.
Old Hillsbrad Foothills was way harder than Dark portal(i think the 2nd boss in dark portal was nerfed/fixed? early though?)
The game was completely different in Vanilla/BC, not sure why people even bother complaining anymore, people who enjoy playing it now obviously aren't there for the same things you(and myself) were, and its never going to go back to the way it was.
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On September 29 2012 10:01 Canas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:00 OKMarius wrote:Yeah Mech was pretty much the only heroic I did early tbc, along with Slave pens Shattered halls, Arcatraz and Dark Portal were the hardest in early tbc imo due to them punishing lack of gear more than the others. Shadow labs was relatively easy even with bad gear if people knew the tacts. Dark portal really wasn't that hard, the reason shadow labyrinth could be considered hard was because mobs feared and it was easy to pull too much, and the felguards hit like fucking trucks and could potentially 1-2 shot your tank if he wasn't decked out in epics. But yeah, shattered halls and arcatraz were harder, no doubt.
Shadow Labs - "Time for fun!"
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On September 29 2012 09:38 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 04:35 Quenchiest wrote:On September 29 2012 04:11 deepfield1 wrote:
Heroics required CC at the very start of TBC because they were not properly tuned. They quickly got nerfed.
At this time heroics were also super un-fun and painful.
Quickly nerfed? I think you're mis-remembering TBC a little bit. Heroics weren't nerfed until very late in the expansion when EVERYTHING got nerfed in preparation for WotLK. Heroics were constantly considered harder than Karazhan, and groups wouldn't even give you a second look if you weren't already in epics. TBC was an odd time for 5 man dungeons. Hell, with heroics if you were a warrior tank people would actually turn you down, citing they wanted only paladins and druids because warriors were absolutely horrendous at AoE tanking. Were they un-fun and painful though? I don't know. I honestly really enjoyed the challenge a lot of them provided. ] No offense.. But some of you seem like really bad players to be talking about how tbc heroics were so insanely difficult. They weren't hard. What made them hard was having idiots without brains in your group. (for example: Having a drooler hunter that didn't know how to trap / chain-trap. Or mages that didn't have the presence of mind (no pun intended) to sheep something again after it breaks the first one. The heroics themselves weren't overly gear dependent or difficult.. But they punished retards, unlike the content that is out now. I remember doing the larger pulls in heroic slave pens back in the day.. One idiot in your group and it was gg, you're chain wiping and not finishing the place. Content was way more fun that way. Now its just dumbed down to an outrageous extent, and is why I'm not touching this game again. Nowadays a tank can just charge in and aoe tank the shit out of stuff without having to break a sweat (because of not having to worry about dropping below 75% hp).. And then all the dps in the group has to worry about is smashing their face on 1,2,3 to do damage.
Your right.
The mechanics in the Heroics weren't hard.
What was hard that most Trashmobs just needed one hit to kill everything except the tank and only raid geared tanks could tank more than 2 mobs.
How it should be .
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yeah i remember when diremaul released and we stood there on the stairs with a group of 3 or 4 ogres facing us and everyone was like "what? 4 elites at the same time???? how are we supposed to do this?!"
or when everyone was running stratholme with 10 players because the arena part and tha baron himself was insanely difficult with 5 players. There was even a quest that gave a PURPLE ITEM for doing it with 5. PURPLE!!
i found that gameplay more fun than just zerging trough stuff and the only stuff holding back progression is dungeon cooldowns and weekly currency limits.
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On September 29 2012 10:45 czylu wrote:
when replenishment was a shadow priest only buff.
Vampiric Embrace. "Replenishment" was the new name after everyone got it.
I loved BC, but man, it was never the heroics that struck me as horribly hard -- it was the leap between Karazhan/Gruul and Magtheridon/T5 content that was scary.
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On September 29 2012 18:29 Lysenko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 10:45 czylu wrote:
when replenishment was a shadow priest only buff. Vampiric Embrace. "Replenishment" was the new name after everyone got it. I loved BC, but man, it was never the heroics that struck me as horribly hard -- it was the leap between Karazhan/Gruul and Magtheridon/T5 content that was scary.
Didn't magtheridon get nerfed pretty early though? Only like 4 guilds or so killed it before it got nerfed, then the fight really wasn't that hard?
Same thing with hydross, he was fucking bullshit before he got nerfed, but he still got nerfed before most guilds had even entered serpentshrine. Loot reaver was never hard.
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On September 29 2012 16:02 Resent wrote:
The game was completely different in Vanilla/BC, not sure why people even bother complaining anymore, people who enjoy playing it now obviously aren't there for the same things you(and myself) were, and its never going to go back to the way it was.
It's true it's completely different in many important ways, but this idea that it's just gotten progressively easier over the years doesn't hold up to a close look at what it's really like.
The game gets easy near the end of expansions as access to gear opens up and they introduce more advanced 5-man options for getting decent gear, but the first couple months of Cataclysm were very difficult. They'd redesigned all the healing classes and tanking in such a way that instead of split-second reaction time to drop a gigantic heal bomb, tanks' health would just slowly drop and drop and drop, giving the healer half a minute to watch themselves fail. People refused to queue for heroics because the healers and tanks didn't know how to handle what was going on. Meanwhile, I played with a committed group of skilled players and we'd still spend hours clearing heroics, at least when we started.
What's changed is that instead of just having a "hard" difficulty, they've added some ways to approach content that are easier. There's nothing stopping people from playing in the harder modes, and honestly that's what earns other players' respect anyway.
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On September 29 2012 18:35 Canas wrote:
Didn't magtheridon get nerfed pretty early though? Only like 4 guilds or so killed it before it got nerfed, then the fight really wasn't that hard?
Same thing with hydross, he was fucking bullshit before he got nerfed, but he still got nerfed before most guilds had even entered serpentshrine. Loot reaver was never hard.
Nobody killed Magtheridon before the first nerf, I'm pretty sure. After that nerf, when the first kill happened, 15 of your 25 raid members had to be organized into three rotating groups of 5 to use the cubes to stop his wipe-the-raid ability. By that point, many guilds were skipping Mag and going straight into SSC. The second nerf, a year or so later, allowed you to have only 5 people on the cubes, at which point the fight became pretty straightforward.
The guild I started and ran in Vanilla only barely had the people to run two Karazhan teams, so we were very late getting into 25-man anything. In the long run, that was a huge mistake, but we were on a fairly low-pop server so it didn't feel too out of whack with what our peers were doing. We ended up clearing SSC and TK very late, except for Vashj and KT, which I ended up doing with my new guild after I had left them.
Late BC, that guild had an upheaval and I ended up in a decent guild on Cenarius (called Poseidon) that was a few bosses into BT at the time, which allowed me to see a lot more content through BT, Sunwell, and Wrath than I would have otherwise. (Interestingly, Poseidon had been the casual half of the Everquest guild Triton, which split into them and a more serious Cenarius guild called Afterlife. Afterlife was led by Thott, who started the Thottbot website. It was certainly something getting to know all those old-time Everquest guys.)
[ We didn't get into Sunwell until right after the 30% nerf dropped with the pre-Wrath patch, so in a way none of it counted. However, we did manage to clear the entire place in about five weeks, ultimately getting a KJ kill the night before Wrath released. That was probably my high point in WoW, all things considered, even with the nerf. ]
Poseidon wound up a casualty of the 10/25 raiding equivalence in Cataclysm, unfortunately. Having two teams of 10 made people crazy, and we could never quite recruit the last 5 to run things in a group of 25 consistently, so a few bosses into T11 the guild fell apart, at which point I quit WoW. I'm now back to leveling with my character that's still in Poseidon, but no plans to raid.
Edit: Yeah this post is all guild-related trivia, but anyone who's been raiding in WoW a while knows those kinds of stories are all that really stick in the long run!
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