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QuanticHawk
United States32106 Posts
Jordan Staal to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, defenseman Brian Dumoulin and the No. 8 pick. JVR to Toronto for Schenn The Staal one is good for both teams I think. Sutter is a solid defensive forward and the pick is nice. JVR, I thought he'd have fetched a tiny bit more than that. I figured another pick thrown in or something. I think his ceiling is a bit higher than Schenn's. Philly needs defensemen though. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
Jordan Staal will be a huge addition to Carolina, he's a monster. If Cam Ward has a decent season next year, expect these guys to go FAR in the playoffs next year. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32106 Posts
I hope with another year of recovery, he'll finally get his legs back under him. He was every bit as good as Girardi before his brother hulk smashed his brain in. I don't know about going far, but I do like that pick up, even for what they gave up. I think Sutter is a solid bottom six guy and nothing more. Someone said Dumoulin is a real good prospect but I have no idea. I do think Staal is a 60+ guy year in year out with top 6 minutes though. They definitely have some pieces down there, and in that division, they can definitely take the crown and get a top 3 seed. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
First things first, Staal had to go. As much as it would have been amazing to keep him with the Pens, it's a business. He was offered roughly 6 million a year to stay a third line center. That's good money, it's almost top 2 center money, but it's not. The Penguins couldn't really afford to pay that without freeing up cap space elsewhere and probably crippling themselves. Jordan Staal is a legitimate 1 center on any team other than Pittsburgh and maybe a handful of others. He'll do well in Carolina, especially since he will likely see better offensive talent on his wings ( should they keep him at center, there has been talk of putting him on a line with Eric from J. Rutherford ). He immediately brings energy back into the building, and after witnessing last season first hand, it was much needed. Carolina's top six is rounding out pretty nicely if Eric returns to a more familiar form, along with Skinner and Jussi Jokinen, who I feel is very under rated. On to the return, Sutter is a very, very solid third line center. Greater back checker, TREMENDOUS penalty killer, will block shots and has been up and around 20 goals his entire career. He comes 2 million cheaper than Staal and is signed for one more season after this. In my mind, he is the ideal third line center. I've also had the chance to meet him on more than one occasion. He's very approachable and a nice dude. Great with the media and reportedly was the heart and soul of Hurricanes locker room. Those are always great qualities to have. 50% on face offs isn't bad either. I don't know much about Dumolin, but I've heard he's almost NHL ready, if not already NHL ready, just entering his first professional season. He was a winner in college and has great size. Skates incredibly well for his size. Sending Michalek back to Phoenix for Roupp and two first round defenseman (who are already playing on defensive pairings with Penguins prospects Joe Morrow and Scott Harrington ) gives the Penguins an unprecedented amount of depth of young d-men. Oh, yeah, not to mention the Penguins now have nearly 15 million in cap space with basically 3 spots to fill, assuming that Despres starts out in the top six D this year and they re-sign Niskanen, whom has already expressed interest in a long term deal. Good deal for both teams, really. Carolina got star power and a legitimate 1 center. Penguins good prospects and the ability to become major players come July 1. EDIT: @ Zorkmid - Jared is already in the Canes system, however, he is progressing slowly and doesn't appear to be close to making an impact in the NHL just yet. @Hawk on Dumolin - Shero has said on multiple occasions that Sutter was the deal breaker, and I don't disagree. The Penguins wanted Justin Faulk, who is already an NHL d-man with great puck moving skills, like the Pens covet. However, Carolina wouldn't give him up. I listened to an interview with Shero this morning on a local Pittsburgh radio station where Shero spent 10 minutes gushing about Dumolin. Everyone, from his GM to the ever wonderful Pierre Mcguire has been talking him up to be a legit impact guy in a year or two. | ||
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Flaccid
8865 Posts
On June 24 2012 11:35 Orcasgt24 wrote: Yay the Oil got Yakupov. Would have been better off with Murray. Stupid lottery win. No brainer choice by EDM but picking second w/o Yakupov on the board would advance the teams need on D. Now we have to pray for Justin Shultz. Those prayers will probably be answered though so thats good Like a lot of guys (hardly original on my part), I'm not a huge fan of taking defensemen in the top five - unless the guy is like a Doughty level stand-out talent, which obviously a guy like Murray is far from. The transition from junior to the pro-game is much harder on defensemen and their unpredictability is well documented. The skills of an offensive player translate much more directly and when you consider that the draft is more or less a 'best guess' on the potential of unproven teenagers, picking a defenseman high adds a fairly significant loss in potential value. That said, there is rarely a sure-thing in the draft outside of the top 1 or 2 picks, after which the guarantee drops off considerably. But that's enough for me to very rarely feel confident about selecting a defensemen and rolling the dice. As said above, defensemen just take longer to develop, to transition, and with that comes a level of uncertainty. If you look back at the last 5 or 10 years of the draft, few defensemen taking with high picks have become stand-out NHL players, particularly when compared with the forwards taken with similar picks. Many of the better ones were taken later in the first-round or later in the draft, below their peers. Again demonstrating the unpredictability of selecting these types. I agree with you that Nail was a no-brainer - just as RNH was last year when so many in Edmonton were calling for Larsson (where'd that discusson go). But I disagree that it's a bad thing. Edmonton got the best player available in the draft and that is always a win. Hell, it's the only thing we ever win. | ||
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Flaccid
8865 Posts
On June 25 2012 22:30 Hawk wrote: What's everyone think of the trades thus far? Personally, I think they are obvious wins for Toronto and for Carolina. Both teams got the best player in the deals and that's historically a good metric of which team benefits. Of course, whenever I say this people always say "derrr what about the Lindros trade." Screw that. People forget how dominant Philly was before Lindros broke his brain and don't tell me anything involved in that trade not named 'Forsberg' did anything useful in Colorado. And don't say "Kerry Fucking Huffman" or I'm going to hit someone. =) | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17187 Posts
On June 25 2012 22:30 Hawk wrote: What's everyone think of the trades thus far? Jordan Staal to Carolina for Brandon Sutter, defenseman Brian Dumoulin and the No. 8 pick. JVR to Toronto for Schenn The Staal one is good for both teams I think. Sutter is a solid defensive forward and the pick is nice. JVR, I thought he'd have fetched a tiny bit more than that. I figured another pick thrown in or something. I think his ceiling is a bit higher than Schenn's. Philly needs defensemen though. Schenn never developed properly because he was in the NHL from the age of 18. He may develop into a good defenseman in Philadelphia. Because he was "trying to do too much" in years 3 and 4 with the Leafs Schenn's ability to "read and react" to plays actually got worse. Was Schenn's stunted development Wilson's fault? i dont know. If Schenn simplifies his game in Philly and the coaching staff is willing to work with him I think he can develop into one of the top 60 defenseman in the NHL. As of right now, he is a confused over burdened player that "thinks too much". I call the JVR//Schenn trade even. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32106 Posts
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/islanders-blue-jackets-narrowly-avoid-worst-trade-time-164506585--nhl.html Anyone hear about this. This is too ridiculous to be true, but so spot on for both orgs... as much as I'm supposed to hate them as a Ranger fan, I really want to see the Isles become a force again. They've got a bunch of good young players, and I liked when that rivalry was intense years ago. I think they're a lot closer than people think though. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On June 26 2012 02:51 Hawk wrote: I wonder what pairing Schenn ends up in. That probably determines a lot of his development. Both dudes are still young, so the trade can go either way. To me though, it just seems JVR's skill set is a lot more rare. Big dude with soft hands who can score vs defensive defensemen. I think with solid top 6 minutes, JVR should be a lock for 60 a year. I had him pegged for a huge year this year tbh, but injuries killed that and he lost his role on the team after that. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/islanders-blue-jackets-narrowly-avoid-worst-trade-time-164506585--nhl.html Anyone hear about this. This is too ridiculous to be true, but so spot on for both orgs... as much as I'm supposed to hate them as a Ranger fan, I really want to see the Isles become a force again. They've got a bunch of good young players, and I liked when that rivalry was intense years ago. I think they're a lot closer than people think though. Schenn is a poor man's Dion Phaneuf, peaked early and is going to be a liability for the rest of his career. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On June 25 2012 22:32 Zorkmid wrote: Jordan and Eric together at last. Get Marc and Jared IMO, complete the family connect. Jordan Staal will be a huge addition to Carolina, he's a monster. If Cam Ward has a decent season next year, expect these guys to go FAR in the playoffs next year. not a chance. One good, but not great center, and one great 3rd line center do not magically fill the holes on defense, the questionable goal tending or the lack of legit wingers. Most likely Staal's +/- joins his brother in the basement. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On June 25 2012 23:31 turamn wrote: Jordan Staal is a legitimate 1 center on any team other than Pittsburgh and maybe a handful of others. . Huh? The Pens had either Malkin or Crosby missing for vast periods of time in the last 4 years, never at any point did Staal look like anything more than an excellent 3rd liner. Had he played the full 82 games last years, maybe he reaches 60 points, maybe. Having said that, paying him Sedin brothers money to be your 3rd line center would have been pretty silly so the actual trade works out well for both teams. But the actual performance of the 'Canes will not magically improve. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On June 26 2012 02:51 Hawk wrote: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/islanders-blue-jackets-narrowly-avoid-worst-trade-time-164506585--nhl.html Anyone hear about this. This is too ridiculous to be true, but so spot on for both orgs... as much as I'm supposed to hate them as a Ranger fan, I really want to see the Isles become a force again. They've got a bunch of good young players, and I liked when that rivalry was intense years ago. I think they're a lot closer than people think though. If is true I'd laugh. Then I'd cry over the fact that a bunch of old rich guys who own the teams keep hiring incompetent good old boys to run their franchises into the ground over and over. Also, Luongo to Florida for Versteeg, Theodore (backup for Scneider), Bernheim (because its Florida so they always have to throw Vancouver a bone) and a couple of 2nd round picks? | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On June 26 2012 07:11 Sub40APM wrote: If is true I'd laugh. Then I'd cry over the fact that a bunch of old rich guys who own the teams keep hiring incompetent good old boys to run their franchises into the ground over and over. Also, Luongo to Florida for Versteeg, Theodore (backup for Scneider), Bernheim (because its Florida so they always have to throw Vancouver a bone) and a couple of 2nd round picks? To be fair, the Islanders are in a situation where they have a ton of contracts already, they dont really have room for many more. That being said, the value there would be enormously in favour of CBJ, imo. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
On June 26 2012 07:08 Sub40APM wrote: Huh? The Pens had either Malkin or Crosby missing for vast periods of time in the last 4 years, never at any point did Staal look like anything more than an excellent 3rd liner. Had he played the full 82 games last years, maybe he reaches 60 points, maybe. Having said that, paying him Sedin brothers money to be your 3rd line center would have been pretty silly so the actual trade works out well for both teams. But the actual performance of the 'Canes will not magically improve. I get that hockey is pretty tough to qualify in some cases, but I don't understand how you can call Jordan Staal a 3rd liner. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On June 26 2012 07:44 Zorkmid wrote: I get that hockey is pretty tough to qualify in some cases, but I don't understand how you can call Jordan Staal a 3rd liner. His two way play? His low points total no matter what situation he finds himself in? (ie, Malkin or Crosby go out, Staal is moved up in that guys slot, production doesnt change much). Does Staal have moments of brilliance? Absolutely. Is he better than a guy like Lapiere or Scott Thorton or Stoll and so forth, without a doubt. Would he be able to carry legitimate second line duties and generate 65+ points? No. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On June 26 2012 07:44 Zorkmid wrote: I get that hockey is pretty tough to qualify in some cases, but I don't understand how you can call Jordan Staal a 3rd liner. Zero chance he's a third liner. Did you watch the games and see who he played with? Sure, you know Crosby and Malkin were out, but this guys wingers were regularly Matt-fucking-Cooke and Tyler - We signed him over Jagr - Kennedy. Even when they were gone, Disco insisted on keeping that line together. He never saw time with Neal and rarely with Kunitz. This year he put up career goals, points and assists as a center ( I say as a center because he had more goals his rookie year when he played on Malkin's wing I believe ). On top of that, the disaster year you're referring to, the dude was coming off major surgery, played 42 games. Half a season. With mostly living turds on his wing outside of Kunitz occasionally. Still put up 30 points. Almost a PPG player. Come back to me and a year when he's played a full season with legitimate wingers ( assuming he either ends up on a line w/ Eric as Rutherford did not rule it out, or with at least Skinner or Jokinen). This guy can turn it on and take his game to another level that a lot of people can't. He can and will regularly push defenders out of the way and beat them one on one -- see his shorty against Detroit from 09 in the playoffs. His power move is sick. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17187 Posts
On June 26 2012 05:10 Zorkmid wrote: Schenn is a poor man's Dion Phaneuf, peaked early and is going to be a liability for the rest of his career. OR he is 1 in a long long line of young Maple Leaf defensemen whose development was thoroughly mismanaged by the Leafs coaching staff. time will tell. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
On June 25 2012 23:56 Flaccid wrote: Like a lot of guys (hardly original on my part), I'm not a huge fan of taking defensemen in the top five - unless the guy is like a Doughty level stand-out talent, which obviously a guy like Murray is far from. The transition from junior to the pro-game is much harder on defensemen and their unpredictability is well documented. The skills of an offensive player translate much more directly and when you consider that the draft is more or less a 'best guess' on the potential of unproven teenagers, picking a defenseman high adds a fairly significant loss in potential value. That said, there is rarely a sure-thing in the draft outside of the top 1 or 2 picks, after which the guarantee drops off considerably. But that's enough for me to very rarely feel confident about selecting a defensemen and rolling the dice. As said above, defensemen just take longer to develop, to transition, and with that comes a level of uncertainty. If you look back at the last 5 or 10 years of the draft, few defensemen taking with high picks have become stand-out NHL players, particularly when compared with the forwards taken with similar picks. Many of the better ones were taken later in the first-round or later in the draft, below their peers. Again demonstrating the unpredictability of selecting these types. I agree with you that Nail was a no-brainer - just as RNH was last year when so many in Edmonton were calling for Larsson (where'd that discusson go). But I disagree that it's a bad thing. Edmonton got the best player available in the draft and that is always a win. Hell, it's the only thing we ever win. 8 of the top 10 picks in this years draft were defencemen. Draft class 2012 was very rich on the blueline. Alot of these guys will be NHL Top 6 or better d-men in 3 or less years. Murray, Reinhart, and maybe Reiley play in the NHL outta camp. Normally I would agree that drafting defence high is very risky but 8 NHL teams worth of scouts must have known this year was a different ball game. Its never a bad thing to draft a player like Yakupov but we already have RNH, Eberle and Hall. Something somewhere has got to give. Even with Horcoff and Hemskys oversized contacts set to expire in 2-3 years + Surrays buyout expiring, how are we gonna sign those 4 guys? | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
Not drafting Yakupov would have been a huge mistake. The only reason there was talk of not taking him is because of organizational need. That is it. Dude has elite skills. Probably the best first five or six steps I have ever seen and pretty slick top speed too. Dude is just dynamic, plays the game at multiple speeds much like you see from a Patrick Kane or Alexander Giroux. Combine that with a nose for the net and an ample willingness to get physical/chirpy and you have a player who you can guarantee will have a huge impact on any given shift. People compare him to Pavel Bure a lot, and there is a damn good reason for it. Kid is the total package, only thing I am not 100% sure on is his cycle game, and thats mostly because whenever I saw him play he just walked in with nice passing plays/dekes/speed created grade A scoring chances at will. To be honest, I'd have been pretty pissed if we didn't take Yakupov. As for paying Hall, RNH, Eberle, and Yakupov... How does Vancouver pay Sedin, Sedin, Kesler, Luongo, and then four defenceman 4 million +? How about the kings Kopitar, Richards, Carter, Doughty while having 8 3 million dollar plus contracts? How about the Pens Crosby, Malkin, Fluery, Martin, Neal? Half the teams in the damn league have cores of 4 or more players being paid 20+ million between them. | ||
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