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On March 27 2012 02:01 Rob28 wrote:
I don't mean this to come off in a "CS is a crappy game" kind of way, but can someone explain the appeal to me? I played it a little bit when it first came out, and it was OK for its time considering what was out there. But I found the jumping and shooting physics to be a little embellished or unrealistic for my tastes, so I left it at that. But now everyone who plays CS still swears up and down that it's the best game out there. Even by today's standards, which really struck me as odd, considering it's running off graphics from way back and an outdated game engine. I just want to know, why people are still so committed to CS? Why do you find it so fun? I can't see the appeal...
Lets see.
Graphics:
The graphics are clear and easy on the eyes, its easy to understand whats going on and the gameplay doesnt get negatively affected by meaningless flashy envioremental effects and such.
Sound:
Each weapon and grenade has a unique sound and each weapon has a different feel (this is huge and very few fps games since haven't even come close).
Hearing footsteps are also very clear and if you're a good player you can actually know where the enemy is just by being nearby and hearing the footsteps. Unlike CSS where everything is muffled and has some sort of weird sound effect that makes no sense to the ear other than confuse you.
You hear(close range) and see when you HS someone, if its with helm its a distinct sounds - if its without its also a distinct sound.
Gameplay:
Probably the most important one - the recoil and the way hit identifiers work - bloodsplash, slower movement, flashes, grunting noises etc.
Recoil is hard to control but very rewarding for a good player. So is the movement and overall game knowledge.
Thats the thing with CoD and other titles, you sort of just aim at the opponent and click your mouse, in cs 1.6 you actually have to pay attention to how you use your weapons in the best way, depending on range, situation, offense, defense etc.
You will miss horribly sometimes but thats the way the recoil is - its punishing -- but without a punishing recoil system you also don't get a rewarding feeling when you DO aim properly. Its not dumbed down to make everyone feel like a pro aimer.
The game has a high skillcap not just 5v5 but also individually, a good player can take out herds of noobs beacuse theyre just spray and praying and walking around like elephants.
CS is a good game because it has a very high skill cap in terms of aim and teamplay, it has distinct and unique game mechanics and it puts gameplay first before flashy graphics that just distract you.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 27 2012 01:42 dronebabo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2012 17:14 Jibba wrote:Testing based on decals is 100% meaningless. It's always been client side for good reason. The only way to test and demonstrate is a glass wall map. Recoil is in no way more predictable than before. 2 shot bursts, that's it right now. Stuff like this is what worries me. http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/2012/03/parity/There's an official blog post from Valve comparing "accuracy" using decals. Since i don't think Valve is purposefully trying to deceive people, they must simply be misinformed which is problematic because this is a fundamental part of how the engine has always worked. Decals are done client side to save speed and from having to make the extra trip from the server, since they're unimportant. This was true in 1.6, Source (ever see someone become bloody who hadn't been shot?) And I'm sure it's true in GO for the same reasons. The dev posting in the thread about it has no clue what he's saying. >.> I a suppose the excellence of DotA 2 made me forget about how Valve treated CS in the past. This is the same group that listened to the idiotic pubber Killer Koala on their forums about how switching between pistol and awp was a "glitch", despite only being a visual bug and having zero impact on the speed with which you could fire the awp. Valve's response: delay fire rate with the awp. >.> It is meaningless only when we know for sure whether lw has been changed and we don't know for sure if it has for GO. Hiwever until we do the decals show that go has a more consistent spray than 1.6. I mean this game doesnt even have fps_max anymore what else could they have changed? Doesnt help that they are horrible at communicating wih the community. Try it yourself. The lag will be considerably different with lw changed.
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amen to that senx
sadly posts like Rob28's are what you find everyday on the CS:GO forums, people actually think that a game is good just by its looks, lmao. Its incredible that Valve invited mostly newbies to participate on the CS:GO beta, a friend of mine who only plays dota had to invite me, a 22 years old dude that played CS since was 11!
at least most of the people is asking for the same things: improvements on the recoil, the maps, the money system and the movement so valve has nothing to do but work on those things.
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United States22883 Posts
Read further on in the thread, Ido's not right.
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Australia7069 Posts
I feel like it doesn't matter what they can show in screenshots or whatever, the guns feel different in a way which detracts from the enjoyment and skill level in the game itself and should be fixed, rather than trying to justify it
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United States22883 Posts
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United States22883 Posts
It only shows 1 decal on the edge. If the decals are accurate, they'll be on the pieces that were broken. The screenshot really doesn't show much.
And there's just no way that was the original placement of the crosshair. The first shot is on, it's been demonstrated thousands of times on glass wall.
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On March 27 2012 02:41 Senx wrote:
CS is a good game because it has a very high skill cap in terms of aim and teamplay, it has distinct and unique game mechanics and it puts gameplay first before flashy graphics that just distract you.
Ok, I can buy that premise, but let me pose you a follow-up question then: there are many games with high skillcaps, unique mechanics, and gameplay priority before graphics (smaller app games seem to make a living making games on these principles... Angry Birds and QWOP fit into that criteria). Obviously CS is not an iphone game, but it does get highlighted because of those aspects you'd mentioned which are present in other games.
So why specifically CS? Is it because it was the first FPS game played at a real competitive level? Does nostalgia keep the fanbase around? I'm not trying to say "I hate CS" or that "it's a shit game" or anything, I'm just curious as to why it got so popular, despite the fact that the elements you've listed are not unique to CS. It just seems to me like a lot of the justification for loving CS comes from the fact that it isn't a traditional CODish shooter. But liking a game because it is not another game is not a reason to like a game, is it? I dunno, maybe I'm being too confusing... but I am also confused.
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United States22883 Posts
cl_lw 1 decals accurately portray the hits that happen on the server and not cl_lw 0, because with cl_lw 0, the client no longer runs the prediction of what the server is actually doing.
Even this sentence doesn't make sense to me. cl_lw 0 turns off client side prediction, yet cl_lw 1 is the accurate one?
Also, cl_lw 1 is the default 1.6 setting. I think Vendo's account is accurate.
http://guides.freddyshouse.com/cs/tweaking/part2.php
cl_lw
This setting determines how weapons fire is controlled, for example with regard to sounds and animation. When set to 0 the client will perform as it used to prior to 1.1.0.0, the server returns/confirms weapon related fire information.
If you set this to 1 the client weapon sound and animation will happen as soon as you press fire. It should be noted that when set to 1 the animations and marks displayed are determined client side, as a result they may not be an accurate representation of where you are actually hitting.
You may find it useful to bind different settings of cl_lw and cl_lc for different weapons. It is very important to make sure that if you use a setting of 0 for cl_lw that cl_lc is also set to 0.
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United States22883 Posts
http://steamcommunity.com/id/jaerba/screenshot/594714175212857454
cl_lw 1
Both of them are shit accuracy.
And I still do not believe for a second that the initial hit is more accurate in GO as Valve is saying. On tapping, I'm getting 8/10 accurate within the x reticules (just above the line) and 1 square to the left/right from the y reticules. 1/20 not staying within the xhair, and the rest are just 2 or more squares off from y.
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On March 27 2012 04:54 Rob28 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 02:41 Senx wrote:
CS is a good game because it has a very high skill cap in terms of aim and teamplay, it has distinct and unique game mechanics and it puts gameplay first before flashy graphics that just distract you. Ok, I can buy that premise, but let me pose you a follow-up question then: there are many games with high skillcaps, unique mechanics, and gameplay priority before graphics (smaller app games seem to make a living making games on these principles... Angry Birds and QWOP fit into that criteria). Obviously CS is not an iphone game, but it does get highlighted because of those aspects you'd mentioned which are present in other games. So why specifically CS? Is it because it was the first FPS game played at a real competitive level? Does nostalgia keep the fanbase around? I'm not trying to say "I hate CS" or that "it's a shit game" or anything, I'm just curious as to why it got so popular, despite the fact that the elements you've listed are not unique to CS. It just seems to me like a lot of the justification for loving CS comes from the fact that it isn't a traditional CODish shooter. But liking a game because it is not another game is not a reason to like a game, is it? I dunno, maybe I'm being too confusing... but I am also confused.
It's a combination of a lot of things. Personally, I really like the buy system and the depth that introduces as well as making more guns viable. The teamplay aspect of the game is much more important than in games like cod (which i played competitively for 3 years btw). The maps are cleaner and layed out better and introduce unique chokes that teams need to navigate.
The aiming is fairly unique in the way the guns recoil. The bomb plant/defuse is also the most entertaining gametype to play and watch imo and adds a lot of strategy to the game. There's other nongameplay related aspects such as the good server browser, console, and the netcode of the game. Oh and half-life tv!
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On March 27 2012 04:54 Rob28 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2012 02:41 Senx wrote:
CS is a good game because it has a very high skill cap in terms of aim and teamplay, it has distinct and unique game mechanics and it puts gameplay first before flashy graphics that just distract you. Ok, I can buy that premise, but let me pose you a follow-up question then: there are many games with high skillcaps, unique mechanics, and gameplay priority before graphics (smaller app games seem to make a living making games on these principles... Angry Birds and QWOP fit into that criteria). Obviously CS is not an iphone game, but it does get highlighted because of those aspects you'd mentioned which are present in other games. So why specifically CS? Is it because it was the first FPS game played at a real competitive level? Does nostalgia keep the fanbase around? I'm not trying to say "I hate CS" or that "it's a shit game" or anything, I'm just curious as to why it got so popular, despite the fact that the elements you've listed are not unique to CS. It just seems to me like a lot of the justification for loving CS comes from the fact that it isn't a traditional CODish shooter. But liking a game because it is not another game is not a reason to like a game, is it? I dunno, maybe I'm being too confusing... but I am also confused.
It's a game that's been around for 10+ years and it doesn't require a good computer to play. BF, CoD, and other series comes out with a new game every year...
The game is simple to follow yet complex to understand and play. You don't need much in-depth knowledge to understand the objective of the game and be like "wow that was amazing!" when you're watching a match. But you need more knowledge or experience to understand / appreciate the various strategies, nade work, and money management skills.
It's a team game so it's fun to watch since there's a lot of emotions coming from the players (I don't find 1v1 games fun to watch so I might be bias). The gameplay is also generally fast pace and intense.
HLTV > everything today lol? You can join the game and spectate yourself if you don't like the commentary or the POV of the commentator. I'm not sure what other games allow you to do this besides DotA 2 and maybe LoL / HoN as well.
The tournaments and teams probably also played a role. The fact that CPL and WCG only happened once or twice a year made it exciting to watch. The team rivalries between 3D, coL, SK, NiP, NoA, and so on were interesting.
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On March 27 2012 06:43 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 04:54 Rob28 wrote:On March 27 2012 02:41 Senx wrote:
CS is a good game because it has a very high skill cap in terms of aim and teamplay, it has distinct and unique game mechanics and it puts gameplay first before flashy graphics that just distract you. Ok, I can buy that premise, but let me pose you a follow-up question then: there are many games with high skillcaps, unique mechanics, and gameplay priority before graphics (smaller app games seem to make a living making games on these principles... Angry Birds and QWOP fit into that criteria). Obviously CS is not an iphone game, but it does get highlighted because of those aspects you'd mentioned which are present in other games. So why specifically CS? Is it because it was the first FPS game played at a real competitive level? Does nostalgia keep the fanbase around? I'm not trying to say "I hate CS" or that "it's a shit game" or anything, I'm just curious as to why it got so popular, despite the fact that the elements you've listed are not unique to CS. It just seems to me like a lot of the justification for loving CS comes from the fact that it isn't a traditional CODish shooter. But liking a game because it is not another game is not a reason to like a game, is it? I dunno, maybe I'm being too confusing... but I am also confused. It's a combination of a lot of things. Personally, I really like the buy system and the depth that introduces as well as making more guns viable. The teamplay aspect of the game is much more important than in games like cod (which i played competitively for 3 years btw). The maps are cleaner and layed out better and introduce unique chokes that teams need to navigate. The aiming is fairly unique in the way the guns recoil. The bomb plant/defuse is also the most entertaining gametype to play and watch imo and adds a lot of strategy to the game. There's other nongameplay related aspects such as the good server browser, console, and the netcode of the game. Oh and half-life tv!
Totally forgot about the money system in CS. THAT is probably the single most unique thing about it and its fucking brilliant. There's more depth to it than what meets the eye.
Also pistol rounds are fuckin brilliant, I love em so much :D
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Hi, I havn't kept up to date with this however is their any new unique aspects to how you join games with this?
I'm imagining an FPS game that really utilizes LoL style ELO queue systems to seperate skill levels, kinda hopeing CS:GO is the game that may do this?
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EPT
