EPTPath of Exile - Page 1250
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5262 Posts
Is the drop rate for breach uniques from breach domain actually good bo1b? In my experience one was dependent on blessing money to make cash, and that's not as reliable with howa out of the meta. @travis why do you need a +1 bow at beginning of league? I would just use a starter skill until you get CA gear @evo Stuff about charges+ Show Spoiler + On July 28 2017 21:48 r.Evo wrote: I might be the absolute minority here but I think the charge change is alright all in all and I *really* hope GGG sticks with it. If they don't then we're pretty much stuck with the hivemind in terms of balance changes for all eternity. Let's be honest, Frenzy has been kind of bullshit ever since they got changed to 4% more damage in 2.0, now they're just bullshit for attack builds who do need it more than spell builds overall. We were at the point where tier 1 builds picked the nodes behind conduit for solo play, so, welp. Considering the Diamond change is not happening, what did actually happen? Let's be conservative and assume 5 charges. Spell based builds lose 100% crit and gain 20% more damage. I take that. Attack based crit builds gain 4 skillpoints and need to make up for ~150% crit somewhere. Harsh, but doable considering those builds tended to use high crit bases in the first place. I really don't think these changes are as dramatic as the reddit thread makes it sound they are, we can also reflect on a thread from two years ago with turned out to be a prophecy: I'm pretty sure I remember talking about this with Cloud back then and that kind of turned out how all builds work. tl;dr: RIP most of my 3.0 plans but the sky isn't falling down. I got some problems with what you're saying. First of all, saying "they stick to this or they fall to the hivemind" is a bit hyperbolic. they are already gutting ES despite this being quite unpopular. I really don't think FC were bullshit considering the sources available. Overcharged was 8% chance on kill for 1 of 3 charges (2.4% for frenzy), not the picture of reliability. Most other sources had serious opportunity cost (poacher's = need +1 curse or lose offensive curse, blood rage = degen, etc). Additionally saying "We were at the point where tier 1 builds picked the nodes behind conduit for solo play, so, welp." as though it's a negative doesn't make any sense to me. I don't want certain nodes to be "support only". nodes being functional for a variety of builds is a strong part of PoE. If the argument is that charges were too good, then nerf charges. I'm fine with nerfs! The main thing that annoys me (as iterated by many others) is that the changes create an unnecessary divide. For example, Spell raider lost 32-36% (8-9 FC) more damage, yet attack raider (ele Bow / buzzsaw / wander) untouched. This just funnels spell builds away from FC (yes you can still use them, it's just much worse) while attack builds are just as strong as ever I seriously don't think this method of balancing is good for the game. In reality they didn't nerf charges overall, just build diversity - if you are attack FC build or spell crit build you laugh your way to the bank while other builds lost a significant amount of power. even if you disagree with me on this stuff, one has to admit the hilarity that things like power siphon and hegemony's got owned. perhaps they will address these issues with targeted buffs but they are running out of time fast | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 29 2017 03:05 Alur wrote: I've never bought something so early, on HC mb unlikely? Do you wanna play CA? If so just level with something else until you have your 5link +2, even if you get your +1 it will be worse than [insert leveling skill]. My CA duelist on beta leveled as DW sunder, and the respec was really smooth since there's plenty of sunder nodes in ranger/shadow. to be honest im trying out leveling with CA and it isn't THAT bad, without a +1. So I figured it would be smooth with a +1. (actually I know it is, since it's what i leveled with a couple years ago - but I started with a silverbranch) But now, since I think holy is right - trade isn't up at the start of the league - So I guess sundering it is. Getting strength is a bit awkward but I think I can do it. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
First of all, saying "they stick to this or they fall to the hivemind" is a bit hyperbolic. they are already gutting ES despite this being quite unpopular. The difference to me is the ES changes, while unpopular, were also celebrated overall because "lul ES OP" memes mostly - not that they were wrong but CI has been dominant for a few leagues in a row. The charge change came out of the blue and especially what we saw on reddit was way, wayyy over the top. I'm fine with GGG making this type of change in general, I'd be more disappointed if they simply revert it because of the initial backlash. Overcharged was 8% chance on kill for 1 of 3 charges (2.4% for frenzy), not the picture of reliability. Definitely right, bit of a dumb spot to harp on I admit. poacher's = need +1 curse Herald of Ice, Poachers, 'free Frenzy'. Costs you a curse slot that doesn't really 'do' anything useful and you can still run a main curse on Blasphemy or OoS for singletarget. Something similar can be done with Assassin's Mark for example for Power Charges. If the argument is that charges were too good, then nerf charges. I'm fine with nerfs! I honestly prefer this way over nerfing charges straight up. They're still strong (one can argue PC got stronger even), but more specific. Yes, spell raider is dead but other builds will show up. I'm aware I'm contradicting e.g. Mathil here but all in all I think the "this is killing build diversity" talk is way, wayyy too early. Maybe these changes will kill spell raiders and a couple attack builds that used power charges. But maybe it will also enable some builds that can now work better than before, we simply don't know that. Maybe the fact that some popular combinations got nerfed with this encourages more build diversity again. From my perspective it's an overall not too massive change that is blown way out of proportion and I don't feel comfy enough to hop on the "but build diversity!"-train in this case. In the end any balance decision affects build diversity in one way or another and we rarely know instantly whether overall options go up or down as a result. This just funnels spell builds away from FC (yes you can still use them, it's just much worse) while attack builds are just as strong as ever If you ask me, this was intentional. The overall perception has been that spell builds > attack builds and that crit >>> all. Part of balancing is "shifting the meta" and this type of change is in line with that. Heck, for quite a few crit builds this is effectively a buff but people will still likely perceive it as a nerf and potentially play them less. even if you disagree with me on this stuff, one has to admit the hilarity that things like power siphon and hegemony's got owned. perhaps they will address these issues with targeted buffs but they are running out of time fast LOL, fully agreed. You can be fully assured that my pitchforks are ready in case all these uniques aren't changed in line with this. If I'm fully honest I haven't expected good balance from GGG in a long, long time now and even if this change turns out to be something bad I see most of the beta 3.0 changes as better decisions than usual. That capital that GGG has built up lately in my eyes plays a role here as well for sure. =P | ||
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Alur
Denmark3900 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
The problem: Almost every build uses all benificial charges it can possibly acquire. Charges are beneficial to pretty much every build. Everyone wants every charge. This is actually homogenizing. This solution: Every build uses all beneficial charges it can possibly acquire. Charges are of limited benefit to certain builds. Attackers all use frenzy, casters all use power. Sort of better, but just as brainless. The actual solution would involve rethinking the charge system to be more situational and conditional. Making it more of a mechanical challenge to acquire and maintain charges, and rebalancing rewards to reward this. The current situation is just too simple and easy to get charges. When anyone can get full charges from mechanisms that work on pretty much every character with no sacrifice (pcoc orb, frenzy, jaws, etc), then the charge system just becomes a boring overall damage increase throughout the entire game. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On July 28 2017 21:48 r.Evo wrote: I might be the absolute minority here but I think the charge change is alright all in all and I *really* hope GGG sticks with it. If they don't then we're pretty much stuck with the hivemind in terms of balance changes for all eternity. Let's be honest, Frenzy has been kind of bullshit ever since they got changed to 4% more damage in 2.0, now they're just bullshit for attack builds who do need it more than spell builds overall. We were at the point where tier 1 builds picked the nodes behind conduit for solo play, so, welp. Considering the Diamond change is not happening, what did actually happen? Let's be conservative and assume 5 charges. Spell based builds lose 100% crit and gain 20% more damage. I take that. Attack based crit builds gain 4 skillpoints and need to make up for ~150% crit somewhere. Harsh, but doable considering those builds tended to use high crit bases in the first place. I really don't think these changes are as dramatic as the reddit thread makes it sound they are, we can also reflect on a thread from two years ago with turned out to be a prophecy: I'm pretty sure I remember talking about this with Cloud back then and that kind of turned out how all builds work. tl;dr: RIP most of my 3.0 plans but the sky isn't falling down. But charges should be strong and used in every build. Maybe every build using all the charges is not ideal, but there are maximums of them because they are strong. I think shifting back to where attack builds use frenzy charges and spell builds use power charges is a reasonable setup instead of every build using all of them. Consider the alternative is that charges are just completely useless and you lose out on conduit and bandit rewards and all sorts of things. On July 29 2017 05:00 sob3k wrote: The actual solution would involve rethinking the charge system to be more situational and conditional. Making it more of a mechanical challenge to acquire and maintain charges, and rebalancing rewards to reward this. The current situation is just too simple and easy to get charges. When anyone can get full charges from mechanisms that work on pretty much every character with no sacrifice (pcoc orb, frenzy, jaws, etc), then the charge system just becomes a boring overall damage increase throughout the entire game. While your solution sounds good in theory. In practice if charges are good then the only viable ones are the builds which can generate and maintain them. You can say It is too simple to get charges now, but either charges are good and you have to deal with annoying mechanics like casting Enduring Cry like we did back in the day or you have every build using a great mechanic to generate. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On July 29 2017 05:02 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: While your solution sounds good in theory. In practice if charges are good then the only viable ones are the builds which can generate and maintain them. You can say It is too simple to get charges now, but either charges are good and you have to deal with annoying mechanics like casting Enduring Cry like we did back in the day or you have every build using a great mechanic to generate. Well thats not true, there are tons of really strong things in the game that aren't universally used, because they require specialization and have compensatory drawbacks. -added projectiles are really great for barrage, but obviously not for bladefall -Shade of solaris gives a great damage boost on recent crit, great for low crit builds, but you can't use it on a crit build because of the drawback -Brutality is really strong, but it locks out many damage flasks and auras, but it combines well with MOM and blood magic -Your marauder trapper is crappy because it takes 100 points to get to clever construction -Devotos is a really strong helm, but not for a bleed or stun build which needs to generate large hits I mean I don't even really have to give examples, as long as the mechanic isn't "X% increased generic damage", then it can be made strong in some build and situations, and weak in others. You can also add a ton more items and keystones that change how charges function to the mix, to allow even more specialization and widespread usage without homogenization ("frenzy charges now just give you 10% AS, frenzy charges now just add a percentage of your armor to hits....etc etc." Also if charges are tricky to generate and maintain, they won't be universally used. If you need a specific glove and boot combo to generate frenzies as a caster for example, then any caster that needs a build defining unique in that spot will be heavily disincentivized to utilize the charges. Its a question of balance whether that build ends up more or less or equal in power to a similar charge using build. | ||
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incinerate_
172 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
personally I just end up using only molten strike, but I am bad. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On July 29 2017 08:03 incinerate_ wrote: What do you guys level attack builds with early (i.e. say pre merveil before you get sunder)? I find it quite atrocious ever since they changed 2h weapons to not one shot with ground slam (this was probably when 2.0 hit or sth ) .speedrunners use cleave | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
@evo effective life with cod is 50% mana/life on beta (good luck getting one early) and it comes with evasion. Imo you can get an 8.5k ehp pool and sit pretty at 40% dodge and 15k+ evasion which is stupidly tanky if you think about it, only es made it look not so. @hunts If I was to make a tier list of builds to start the league with, it would be something like this: 1 Srs big gap 2 wander 3 ed Wander would be number one but have fun getting gear for it early. You can get stupid damage off barage really quickly on a 5 link with those gloves which add 1-100 lightning damage, and a queen of the forest gives a ton of movespeed. But you're going to want seriously good rares in basically every other slot in order to get 6.5k + life. I think bow skills are actually quite good to level with at this stage in beta too. Grab pierce from ranger and split arrow and that takes you comfortably to level 12 at which point you get lmp/la/pierce set up for aoe and a rain of arrows and siege ballista set up. On the other hand I suspect that end game ts could be fairly miserable above a certain tier of map. Also I really think that people are over valuing defence atm. The random one shots seem to have mostly gone away, volatile is pretty straight forward to evade, theres a ton of reflect reduction available. Really the only one that sticks out to me is porcupines and bosses slamming you. Shoutout to ascendant, looking stupidly strong again thank god. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On July 29 2017 08:28 bo1b wrote: @neophyte I might have just been luckyish I suppose, but I also tend to get splinters faster in legacy than I did in breach, given how much I use various breach stones. @evo effective life with cod is 50% mana/life on beta (good luck getting one early) and it comes with evasion. Imo you can get an 8.5k ehp pool and sit pretty at 40% dodge and 15k+ evasion which is stupidly tanky if you think about it, only es made it look not so. @hunts If I was to make a tier list of builds to start the league with, it would be something like this: 1 Srs big gap 2 wander 3 ed Wander would be number one but have fun getting gear for it early. You can get stupid damage off barage really quickly on a 5 link with those gloves which add 1-100 lightning damage, and a queen of the forest gives a ton of movespeed. But you're going to want seriously good rares in basically every other slot in order to get 6.5k + life. I think bow skills are actually quite good to level with at this stage in beta too. Grab pierce from ranger and split arrow and that takes you comfortably to level 12 at which point you get lmp/la/pierce set up for aoe and a rain of arrows and siege ballista set up. On the other hand I suspect that end game ts could be fairly miserable above a certain tier of map. Also I really think that people are over valuing defence atm. The random one shots seem to have mostly gone away, volatile is pretty straight forward to evade, theres a ton of reflect reduction available. Really the only one that sticks out to me is porcupines and bosses slamming you. Shoutout to ascendant, looking stupidly strong again thank god. I see, thanks. I play SC not hc if that matters, usually end up playing hard the first few weeks of a season and getting to end game fast, then quitting. Never really played a bow build into end game though. Never really played ed wand or srs, might do wand or srs though unless something else turns out to be stronger. Anyone know how cyclone with ngamahus flame will be? Especially with the xophs blood being harder to get due to lack of breach. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On July 29 2017 08:59 travis wrote: I think you forgot sunder, which is like the ultimate league starter I don't particularly enjoy those types of builds so I actually forgot they exist. Ele conversion phys is probably going to be better than ever. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
The power charge changes are getting hugely overblown, one of the big complaints in the past has been that capping crit is a joke. The frenzy charge changes also seem kind of weird to me, just because it felt like the entire point of making them into X% more damage back in the day was so that everyone could use them. I guess the direction has changed. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5262 Posts
I also don't think wander is such a great league starter. it's a very strong build, but if you're in SC good luck buying any of the pieces early. Thunderfist and lycosidae especially will be hotly contested. As a second build tho it's a great choice. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
Bow levelling is significantly better than it was though, absolutely no doubt about it with how early you can get pierce. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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