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United States4890 Posts
On November 19 2013 21:14 samurai80 wrote:I just bought the game recently. It's really nice but I'm so bad at it as I've never played a lot of versus fighting games, except Tekken on my PSP. From my very noob and superficial point of view about SF4, I feel like the game is one of the greatest of its genre, but on the other hand, I dislike how the game relies on rotating the directional pad / stick a lot. These rotation movements are more tiring, compared to games like Tekken which relies on hitting buttons in the correct rythm (this can be hard too, but the mechanical execution is simple). It forces you to buy an expensive arcade stick, as your ultra won't come out as easily with a keyboard or a standard playstation / xbox gamepad. This is why Tekken Revolution was ok on the PSP while SF3 Alpha 3 Max wasn't. For someone like me who don't want to invest in a stick and can't train a lot, this is a bit a pity. Now don't get it wrong, I'm still enjoying the game 
You definitely don't need a stick to play; pad has the advantage of quicker input speed, while keyboard/hitbox is more precise and allows for better forward/backward movement and charge buffering. Tons of people play on pad. I play on pad. There's no disadvantage to using pad for SF4 beyond learning curve.
As far as the difficulty of motions and whatnot, that is something which you won't even think about once you're more experienced. The reason why rotational inputs are used instead of rhythmic button presses is because your move needs to come out instantly, and it would be way too messy if you tried to tie every special move to a single direction+button press, i.e. Forward+LP = Light Hadouken and Down-Forward+MP = Medium Shoryuken. Can you imagine how many accidental moves you'd get with such a system? Also, the motions themselves are meant to balance the characters in some small way: You can react faster with a Flash Kick than a Shoryuken, but you have to charge it first, and a Spinning Piledriver needs to be planned in advance, etc.
SF4 is one of the easiest 2D fighters in terms of execution; the input buffer and hitstop are both very long, and there are many shortcuts that will help you if you mess up. Also, the PSP D-Pad is one of the better ones out there, so you should be fine with doing the motions after practicing for awhile. You might run into some problems trying to do the tighter links, but that's just a matter of learning the timing.
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On November 19 2013 22:38 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 21:14 samurai80 wrote:I just bought the game recently. It's really nice but I'm so bad at it as I've never played a lot of versus fighting games, except Tekken on my PSP. From my very noob and superficial point of view about SF4, I feel like the game is one of the greatest of its genre, but on the other hand, I dislike how the game relies on rotating the directional pad / stick a lot. These rotation movements are more tiring, compared to games like Tekken which relies on hitting buttons in the correct rythm (this can be hard too, but the mechanical execution is simple). It forces you to buy an expensive arcade stick, as your ultra won't come out as easily with a keyboard or a standard playstation / xbox gamepad. This is why Tekken Revolution was ok on the PSP while SF3 Alpha 3 Max wasn't. For someone like me who don't want to invest in a stick and can't train a lot, this is a bit a pity. Now don't get it wrong, I'm still enjoying the game You definitely don't need a stick to play; pad has the advantage of quicker input speed, while keyboard/hitbox is more precise and allows for better forward/backward movement and charge buffering. Tons of people play on pad. I play on pad. There's no disadvantage to using pad for SF4 beyond learning curve. As far as the difficulty of motions and whatnot, that is something which you won't even think about once you're more experienced. The reason why rotational inputs are used instead of rhythmic button presses is because your move needs to come out instantly, and it would be way too messy if you tried to tie every special move to a single direction+button press, i.e. Forward+LP = Light Hadouken and Down-Forward+MP = Medium Shoryuken. Can you imagine how many accidental moves you'd get with such a system? Also, the motions themselves are meant to balance the characters in some small way: You can react faster with a Flash Kick than a Shoryuken, but you have to charge it first, and a Spinning Piledriver needs to be planned in advance, etc. SF4 is one of the easiest 2D fighters in terms of execution; the input buffer and hitstop are both very long, and there are many shortcuts that will help you if you mess up. Also, the PSP D-Pad is one of the better ones out there, so you should be fine with doing the motions after practicing for awhile. You might run into some problems trying to do the tighter links, but that's just a matter of learning the timing.
Thanks for the insight. Sounds like I need to play a bit more then :D
Since I bought the game I've only played a couple of times when friends came to my place, so you know it's often like "ok I lost but it's unfair, u had the better gamepad dirty newb ^^ !" (I play on my PC with 2 different Logitech pads). So I felt like this game was more dependant on the pad.
Concerning the PSP I read an article some years ago on a gaming site about how difficult it was to play SF α3 Max on PSP because the cross was too tight. On the other hand they praised Tekken Revolution which is why I bought the game at that time.
What I meant about pressing buttons instead of curves was refering to Tekken actually. I haven't played the game for years but I don't recall using the directions a lot. I don't think I used them at all for the longest special combos actually... Now maybe this is the reason why Tekken may not be as realistic as SF I suppose.
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On November 19 2013 22:38 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 21:14 samurai80 wrote:I just bought the game recently. It's really nice but I'm so bad at it as I've never played a lot of versus fighting games, except Tekken on my PSP. From my very noob and superficial point of view about SF4, I feel like the game is one of the greatest of its genre, but on the other hand, I dislike how the game relies on rotating the directional pad / stick a lot. These rotation movements are more tiring, compared to games like Tekken which relies on hitting buttons in the correct rythm (this can be hard too, but the mechanical execution is simple). It forces you to buy an expensive arcade stick, as your ultra won't come out as easily with a keyboard or a standard playstation / xbox gamepad. This is why Tekken Revolution was ok on the PSP while SF3 Alpha 3 Max wasn't. For someone like me who don't want to invest in a stick and can't train a lot, this is a bit a pity. Now don't get it wrong, I'm still enjoying the game + Show Spoiler +
You definitely don't need a stick to play; pad has the advantage of quicker input speed, while keyboard/hitbox is more precise and allows for better forward/backward movement and charge buffering. Tons of people play on pad. I play on pad. There's no disadvantage to using pad for SF4 beyond learning curve.
As far as the difficulty of motions and whatnot, that is something which you won't even think about once you're more experienced. The reason why rotational inputs are used instead of rhythmic button presses is because your move needs to come out instantly, and it would be way too messy if you tried to tie every special move to a single direction+button press, i.e. Forward+LP = Light Hadouken and Down-Forward+MP = Medium Shoryuken. Can you imagine how many accidental moves you'd get with such a system? Also, the motions themselves are meant to balance the characters in some small way: You can react faster with a Flash Kick than a Shoryuken, but you have to charge it first, and a Spinning Piledriver needs to be planned in advance, etc.
SF4 is one of the easiest 2D fighters in terms of execution; the input buffer and hitstop are both very long, and there are many shortcuts that will help you if you mess up. Also, the PSP D-Pad is one of the better ones out there, so you should be fine with doing the motions after practicing for awhile. You might run into some problems trying to do the tighter links, but that's just a matter of learning the timing.
I assume the input buffer is the amount of time allowed to complete a combo, but what is hitstop ? Sorry for my noobish question !
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United States4890 Posts
On November 19 2013 23:29 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 22:38 Cel.erity wrote:On November 19 2013 21:14 samurai80 wrote:I just bought the game recently. It's really nice but I'm so bad at it as I've never played a lot of versus fighting games, except Tekken on my PSP. From my very noob and superficial point of view about SF4, I feel like the game is one of the greatest of its genre, but on the other hand, I dislike how the game relies on rotating the directional pad / stick a lot. These rotation movements are more tiring, compared to games like Tekken which relies on hitting buttons in the correct rythm (this can be hard too, but the mechanical execution is simple). It forces you to buy an expensive arcade stick, as your ultra won't come out as easily with a keyboard or a standard playstation / xbox gamepad. This is why Tekken Revolution was ok on the PSP while SF3 Alpha 3 Max wasn't. For someone like me who don't want to invest in a stick and can't train a lot, this is a bit a pity. Now don't get it wrong, I'm still enjoying the game + Show Spoiler +
You definitely don't need a stick to play; pad has the advantage of quicker input speed, while keyboard/hitbox is more precise and allows for better forward/backward movement and charge buffering. Tons of people play on pad. I play on pad. There's no disadvantage to using pad for SF4 beyond learning curve.
As far as the difficulty of motions and whatnot, that is something which you won't even think about once you're more experienced. The reason why rotational inputs are used instead of rhythmic button presses is because your move needs to come out instantly, and it would be way too messy if you tried to tie every special move to a single direction+button press, i.e. Forward+LP = Light Hadouken and Down-Forward+MP = Medium Shoryuken. Can you imagine how many accidental moves you'd get with such a system? Also, the motions themselves are meant to balance the characters in some small way: You can react faster with a Flash Kick than a Shoryuken, but you have to charge it first, and a Spinning Piledriver needs to be planned in advance, etc.
SF4 is one of the easiest 2D fighters in terms of execution; the input buffer and hitstop are both very long, and there are many shortcuts that will help you if you mess up. Also, the PSP D-Pad is one of the better ones out there, so you should be fine with doing the motions after practicing for awhile. You might run into some problems trying to do the tighter links, but that's just a matter of learning the timing. I assume the input buffer is the amount of time allowed to complete a combo, but what is hitstop ? Sorry for my noobish question !
Input buffer is basically the length of time an input will stay in the system's memory before it's forgotten, so in SF4 you can roll from down to forward pretty slowly and still get the fireball.
Hitstop is what happens whenever you hit someone with an attack; the screen will freeze for a certain amount of time. It's what enables you to confirm that an attack has connected so you can go for a combo. Bigger moves and counterhits have more hitstop.
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On November 19 2013 21:14 samurai80 wrote:I just bought the game recently. It's really nice but I'm so bad at it as I've never played a lot of versus fighting games, except Tekken on my PSP. From my very noob and superficial point of view about SF4, I feel like the game is one of the greatest of its genre, but on the other hand, I dislike how the game relies on rotating the directional pad / stick a lot. These rotation movements are more tiring, compared to games like Tekken which relies on hitting buttons in the correct rythm (this can be hard too, but the mechanical execution is simple). It forces you to buy an expensive arcade stick, as your ultra won't come out as easily with a keyboard or a standard playstation / xbox gamepad. This is why Tekken Revolution was ok on the PSP while SF3 Alpha 3 Max wasn't. For someone like me who don't want to invest in a stick and can't train a lot, this is a bit a pity. Now don't get it wrong, I'm still enjoying the game
I've been playing about 120 hours of this game with a keyboard and I've had no problems with it yet. 720 moves are probably the hardest ones to do, followed by Z-charge moves (or W/E they're called).
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On November 20 2013 00:28 Cel.erity wrote:
Hitstop is what happens whenever you hit someone with an attack; the screen will freeze for a certain amount of time. It's what enables you to confirm that an attack has connected so you can go for a combo. Bigger moves and counterhits have more hitstop.
Is this a thing? I have thousands of hours in this game and have never noticed. :V
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On November 20 2013 02:23 ain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 00:28 Cel.erity wrote:
Hitstop is what happens whenever you hit someone with an attack; the screen will freeze for a certain amount of time. It's what enables you to confirm that an attack has connected so you can go for a combo. Bigger moves and counterhits have more hitstop. Is this a thing? I have thousands of hours in this game and have never noticed. :V
Never noticed it in sf4 either lol.
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United States12256 Posts
You've never noticed that the characters pause briefly when an attack connects? Compare whiffing a HP shoryuken with hitting or blocking one. It's not as extreme as some anime games, but it's there.
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It's more noticeable on multi-hitting attacks like Ken or Sakura heavy DP. Check out the length of time it takes for those moves to finish when they hit as opposed to when they whiff.
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United States4890 Posts
On November 20 2013 02:37 Excalibur_Z wrote:
You've never noticed that the characters pause briefly when an attack connects? Compare whiffing a HP shoryuken with hitting or blocking one. It's not as extreme as some anime games, but it's there.
I don't actually know of a game with more hitstop than SF4. Even the older iterations of BlazBlue, which were criticized for their ridiculously long hitstop, have slightly less. Hitstop is a big part of what makes certain games feel faster or slower.
Unless you're just talking about the graphical effects, in which case, yeah it's not as noticeable.
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The hitstop in SF4 feels a lot LESS like actual hitstop and a lot more just built into the animations. The Ken's Tatsu hit/whiff is a good example. I never even think of that as "hitstop", just the "way the game/engine/animations behave".
I'm also less experienced with fighting games, and I'm pretty much only basing this on experience from AE and Marvel, with some 3S and KoF.
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On November 20 2013 02:37 Excalibur_Z wrote:
You've never noticed that the characters pause briefly when an attack connects? Compare whiffing a HP shoryuken with hitting or blocking one. It's not as extreme as some anime games, but it's there.
I think it is something that come with experience. Takes a while to truly notice it. I was always pondering how people who play Sakura were able to connect with medium low kick into dragon punch so smoothly. I just uses to thought that they pre-emptively just do the combo knowing the medium low kick was going to connect but it was because of the hitstop from the low medium kick that gives them enough time time to realize they can do a dragon punch.
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United States12256 Posts
On November 20 2013 04:02 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 02:37 Excalibur_Z wrote:
You've never noticed that the characters pause briefly when an attack connects? Compare whiffing a HP shoryuken with hitting or blocking one. It's not as extreme as some anime games, but it's there. I think it is something that come with experience. Takes a while to truly notice it. I was always pondering how people who play Sakura were able to connect with medium low kick into dragon punch so smoothly. I just uses to thought that they pre-emptively just do the combo knowing the medium low kick was going to connect but it was because of the hitstop from the low medium kick that gives them enough time time to realize they can do a dragon punch.
Well speaking as a Sakura player, I always buffer every c.mk into a dp. If it whiffs then the dp doesn't come out, so there's very little risk because you're executing the move at a distance where the opponent is going to have to stick out a limb or walk into it for it to connect. Her mk also has only what, 2 active frames? And since those are the frames you have to cancel, it's just really unlikely that those dp ”confirms” are done on reaction.
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On November 20 2013 03:31 Cel.erity wrote:
I don't actually know of a game with more hitstop than SF4.
Guilty Gear 
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United States4890 Posts
On November 20 2013 05:51 HeatEXTEND wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 03:31 Cel.erity wrote:
I don't actually know of a game with more hitstop than SF4. Guilty Gear
Checked and they're both between 10-15F, but you're right, I never realized GG had that much hitstop. BB's always felt so much longer.
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I'll go ahead and guess it's the 2D that makes it so obvious in GG/BB/ST etc.
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Are you guys hyped for ultra? Is the steam group still active? I'd love to play with some people from here if possible.
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On November 20 2013 00:28 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 23:29 samurai80 wrote:On November 19 2013 22:38 Cel.erity wrote:On November 19 2013 21:14 samurai80 wrote:I just bought the game recently. It's really nice but I'm so bad at it as I've never played a lot of versus fighting games, except Tekken on my PSP. From my very noob and superficial point of view about SF4, I feel like the game is one of the greatest of its genre, but on the other hand, I dislike how the game relies on rotating the directional pad / stick a lot. These rotation movements are more tiring, compared to games like Tekken which relies on hitting buttons in the correct rythm (this can be hard too, but the mechanical execution is simple). It forces you to buy an expensive arcade stick, as your ultra won't come out as easily with a keyboard or a standard playstation / xbox gamepad. This is why Tekken Revolution was ok on the PSP while SF3 Alpha 3 Max wasn't. For someone like me who don't want to invest in a stick and can't train a lot, this is a bit a pity. Now don't get it wrong, I'm still enjoying the game + Show Spoiler +
You definitely don't need a stick to play; pad has the advantage of quicker input speed, while keyboard/hitbox is more precise and allows for better forward/backward movement and charge buffering. Tons of people play on pad. I play on pad. There's no disadvantage to using pad for SF4 beyond learning curve.
As far as the difficulty of motions and whatnot, that is something which you won't even think about once you're more experienced. The reason why rotational inputs are used instead of rhythmic button presses is because your move needs to come out instantly, and it would be way too messy if you tried to tie every special move to a single direction+button press, i.e. Forward+LP = Light Hadouken and Down-Forward+MP = Medium Shoryuken. Can you imagine how many accidental moves you'd get with such a system? Also, the motions themselves are meant to balance the characters in some small way: You can react faster with a Flash Kick than a Shoryuken, but you have to charge it first, and a Spinning Piledriver needs to be planned in advance, etc.
SF4 is one of the easiest 2D fighters in terms of execution; the input buffer and hitstop are both very long, and there are many shortcuts that will help you if you mess up. Also, the PSP D-Pad is one of the better ones out there, so you should be fine with doing the motions after practicing for awhile. You might run into some problems trying to do the tighter links, but that's just a matter of learning the timing. I assume the input buffer is the amount of time allowed to complete a combo, but what is hitstop ? Sorry for my noobish question ! Input buffer is basically the length of time an input will stay in the system's memory before it's forgotten, so in SF4 you can roll from down to forward pretty slowly and still get the fireball. Hitstop is what happens whenever you hit someone with an attack; the screen will freeze for a certain amount of time. It's what enables you to confirm that an attack has connected so you can go for a combo. Bigger moves and counterhits have more hitstop.
Thank you very much sensei 
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On November 20 2013 00:42 WindWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 21:14 samurai80 wrote:I just bought the game recently. It's really nice but I'm so bad at it as I've never played a lot of versus fighting games, except Tekken on my PSP. From my very noob and superficial point of view about SF4, I feel like the game is one of the greatest of its genre, but on the other hand, I dislike how the game relies on rotating the directional pad / stick a lot. These rotation movements are more tiring, compared to games like Tekken which relies on hitting buttons in the correct rythm (this can be hard too, but the mechanical execution is simple). It forces you to buy an expensive arcade stick, as your ultra won't come out as easily with a keyboard or a standard playstation / xbox gamepad. This is why Tekken Revolution was ok on the PSP while SF3 Alpha 3 Max wasn't. For someone like me who don't want to invest in a stick and can't train a lot, this is a bit a pity. Now don't get it wrong, I'm still enjoying the game I've been playing about 120 hours of this game with a keyboard and I've had no problems with it yet. 720 moves are probably the hardest ones to do, followed by Z-charge moves (or W/E they're called).
I never played it on keyboard TBH. I was assuming it was at least less entertaining but I'll give it a try. The thing is I play vs my friends on the same PC, therefore the use of gamepads, one of them having a terrible directional pad.
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Actually I started playing Guilty Gear online on my own as my first fighting game, without mentors or anything. Whiff punishing was like the hardest concept for me to learn. I was so used to the long hit and block stop that when that didn't occur the whiffed normal move of the opponent didn't register except the really slow ones.
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EPT
