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On June 01 2013 00:52 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 00:35 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 22:27 Duka08 wrote:On May 31 2013 21:58 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 10:45 rwrzr wrote:On May 31 2013 02:49 Noocta wrote:
Just started to practice again seriously with both Makoto and Viper.
I had a session with a Rufus in a random endless.
God I hate playing against Rufus :D
Nothing more frustrating than fighting a fighter with so much comeback potential One thing I found really funny is that no one really complains now about how ultra combos are comeback factors. It would be kind of boring if there was no way to make a comeback wouldn't it ? D: Yeah, you'd have to do it the old fashioned way. By playing better and outthinking the opponent щ(ಥДಥщ) Is that not what ultras are about? If your opponent doesn't respect it then they will lose their advantage -_- Besides, you can still make a comeback without an ultra, just have pro reads on your opponent. Though that will likely involve burning meter. Again though, without comeback potential this game would be far less interesting. It's not particularly entertaining to see someone essentially win as soon as they gain an advantage early on.... On the contrary, it's not entertaining when someone throws out a random ultra for 40-60% damage and wins a round. All that work that one player put in is completely thrown away because the other player happened to do an ultra input. It happens online all the time, even in major tournaments! Those are just rolleyes moments for everyone: the loser, the crowd, even the winner who knows he got lucky.
Who just throws out random ultras and connects at tournament level play? Not to mention, ultra comebacks are always hype with the crowd. I never knew there were people that thought ultras were lame -_-
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On June 01 2013 01:18 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 00:52 Excalibur_Z wrote:On June 01 2013 00:35 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 22:27 Duka08 wrote:On May 31 2013 21:58 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 10:45 rwrzr wrote:On May 31 2013 02:49 Noocta wrote:
Just started to practice again seriously with both Makoto and Viper.
I had a session with a Rufus in a random endless.
God I hate playing against Rufus :D
Nothing more frustrating than fighting a fighter with so much comeback potential One thing I found really funny is that no one really complains now about how ultra combos are comeback factors. It would be kind of boring if there was no way to make a comeback wouldn't it ? D: Yeah, you'd have to do it the old fashioned way. By playing better and outthinking the opponent щ(ಥДಥщ) Is that not what ultras are about? If your opponent doesn't respect it then they will lose their advantage -_- Besides, you can still make a comeback without an ultra, just have pro reads on your opponent. Though that will likely involve burning meter. Again though, without comeback potential this game would be far less interesting. It's not particularly entertaining to see someone essentially win as soon as they gain an advantage early on.... On the contrary, it's not entertaining when someone throws out a random ultra for 40-60% damage and wins a round. All that work that one player put in is completely thrown away because the other player happened to do an ultra input. It happens online all the time, even in major tournaments! Those are just rolleyes moments for everyone: the loser, the crowd, even the winner who knows he got lucky. Who just throws out random ultras and connects at tournament level play? Not to mention, ultra comebacks are always hype with the crowd. I never knew there were people that thought ultras were lame -_-
It happens all the time in competitive play! Not in a majority of games, but it happens in important matches at many tournaments.
Playing sick footsies and landing a BnB that you confirm INTO an ultra is hype, and my favorite application of the mechanic. Daigo v Gamerbee at EVO anyone?
But raw ultras that land, either as punishment or just a fluke, and destroy a 50+% lead, are not hype.
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On June 01 2013 01:49 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 01:18 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 01 2013 00:52 Excalibur_Z wrote:On June 01 2013 00:35 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 22:27 Duka08 wrote:On May 31 2013 21:58 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 10:45 rwrzr wrote:On May 31 2013 02:49 Noocta wrote:
Just started to practice again seriously with both Makoto and Viper.
I had a session with a Rufus in a random endless.
God I hate playing against Rufus :D
Nothing more frustrating than fighting a fighter with so much comeback potential One thing I found really funny is that no one really complains now about how ultra combos are comeback factors. It would be kind of boring if there was no way to make a comeback wouldn't it ? D: Yeah, you'd have to do it the old fashioned way. By playing better and outthinking the opponent щ(ಥДಥщ) Is that not what ultras are about? If your opponent doesn't respect it then they will lose their advantage -_- Besides, you can still make a comeback without an ultra, just have pro reads on your opponent. Though that will likely involve burning meter. Again though, without comeback potential this game would be far less interesting. It's not particularly entertaining to see someone essentially win as soon as they gain an advantage early on.... On the contrary, it's not entertaining when someone throws out a random ultra for 40-60% damage and wins a round. All that work that one player put in is completely thrown away because the other player happened to do an ultra input. It happens online all the time, even in major tournaments! Those are just rolleyes moments for everyone: the loser, the crowd, even the winner who knows he got lucky. Who just throws out random ultras and connects at tournament level play? Not to mention, ultra comebacks are always hype with the crowd. I never knew there were people that thought ultras were lame -_- It happens all the time in competitive play! Not in a majority of games, but it happens in important matches at many tournaments. Playing sick footsies and landing a BnB that you confirm INTO an ultra is hype, and my favorite application of the mechanic. Daigo v Gamerbee at EVO anyone? But raw ultras that land, either as punishment or just a fluke, and destroy a 50+% lead, are not hype.
I disagree. Case in point: Marn and Mike Ross.
If you get hit by a wake-up ultra because you didn't respect it blame yourself, not the person who did the wake-up ultra. In the end its a valid option and, in my opinion, creates additional tension.
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On June 01 2013 01:49 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 01:18 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 01 2013 00:52 Excalibur_Z wrote:On June 01 2013 00:35 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 22:27 Duka08 wrote:On May 31 2013 21:58 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 10:45 rwrzr wrote:On May 31 2013 02:49 Noocta wrote:
Just started to practice again seriously with both Makoto and Viper.
I had a session with a Rufus in a random endless.
God I hate playing against Rufus :D
Nothing more frustrating than fighting a fighter with so much comeback potential One thing I found really funny is that no one really complains now about how ultra combos are comeback factors. It would be kind of boring if there was no way to make a comeback wouldn't it ? D: Yeah, you'd have to do it the old fashioned way. By playing better and outthinking the opponent щ(ಥДಥщ) Is that not what ultras are about? If your opponent doesn't respect it then they will lose their advantage -_- Besides, you can still make a comeback without an ultra, just have pro reads on your opponent. Though that will likely involve burning meter. Again though, without comeback potential this game would be far less interesting. It's not particularly entertaining to see someone essentially win as soon as they gain an advantage early on.... On the contrary, it's not entertaining when someone throws out a random ultra for 40-60% damage and wins a round. All that work that one player put in is completely thrown away because the other player happened to do an ultra input. It happens online all the time, even in major tournaments! Those are just rolleyes moments for everyone: the loser, the crowd, even the winner who knows he got lucky. Who just throws out random ultras and connects at tournament level play? Not to mention, ultra comebacks are always hype with the crowd. I never knew there were people that thought ultras were lame -_- It happens all the time in competitive play! Not in a majority of games, but it happens in important matches at many tournaments. Playing sick footsies and landing a BnB that you confirm INTO an ultra is hype, and my favorite application of the mechanic. Daigo v Gamerbee at EVO anyone? But raw ultras that land, either as punishment or just a fluke, and destroy a 50+% lead, are not hype.
Comebacks are always hype to me, specifically when someone has a nice read and catches a non respectful player with an ultra :D. Without that mechanic, players that are in a sizable lead would have almost nothing to fear, which reduces the intensity of the match for everyone including spectators.
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To think of ultras as just a comeback mechanic is very simplistic. They are a very interesting way to make balance possible in a game with a big roster of diverse characters. The ultras fill holes in the characters' toolsets and help smooth out the matchups. They make matches more interesting as it is something you have to pay attention to and be ready to adapt to mid round. Also it is important to remember you can gain ultra meter without losing life by focusing. The combination focus+ultra system incentivizes careful play. You are warned very clearly when your opponent gets their ultra and the properties of ultras are well understood. No one "randomly" loses to an ultra, you lose to an ultra when you get sloppy.
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On May 31 2013 12:50 2WeaK wrote:So I'm going to my first tournament this Saturday, it's going to be streams, so I'm hoping to make it on stream. However, I think that I'm getting nervous. I'm not positive, because it's not the "traditional" nervousness that I'm used to, but rather whenever I play online, or practice my combos in training mode and make dumb mistakes, I actually get frustrated, but not quite mad. I have caught myself slashing my hand through the air after a dropped combo or a "dumb trade". This isn't normal for me, if I do something stupid, I normally just have a quick twitch with my left eye and I'm back in my game. I'm scared that this might affect my game in a negative way because I have almost thrown away a game because of this frustration. Is this normal that your reactions change right before a tournament? For that matter, I play Rose, but a really rush down Rose. I also play Yun, but I'm too relentless for my own good with Yun, so I'm thinking of going out with Rose here. Does anyone have any tips on what to practice for before a tournament? + Show Spoiler +Well this pretty much turned out to be a blog post, sorry. I guess?
The most important thing to do at tournaments is talk to the other local players so you don't have to play online all the time!! As for actual performance, I like to have a powerade / gatorade drink with me throughout the tourney. Try not to worry about the bracket, just play your matches as they come.
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On June 01 2013 02:04 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 01:49 Duka08 wrote:On June 01 2013 01:18 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 01 2013 00:52 Excalibur_Z wrote:On June 01 2013 00:35 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 22:27 Duka08 wrote:On May 31 2013 21:58 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 31 2013 10:45 rwrzr wrote:On May 31 2013 02:49 Noocta wrote:
Just started to practice again seriously with both Makoto and Viper.
I had a session with a Rufus in a random endless.
God I hate playing against Rufus :D
Nothing more frustrating than fighting a fighter with so much comeback potential One thing I found really funny is that no one really complains now about how ultra combos are comeback factors. It would be kind of boring if there was no way to make a comeback wouldn't it ? D: Yeah, you'd have to do it the old fashioned way. By playing better and outthinking the opponent щ(ಥДಥщ) Is that not what ultras are about? If your opponent doesn't respect it then they will lose their advantage -_- Besides, you can still make a comeback without an ultra, just have pro reads on your opponent. Though that will likely involve burning meter. Again though, without comeback potential this game would be far less interesting. It's not particularly entertaining to see someone essentially win as soon as they gain an advantage early on.... On the contrary, it's not entertaining when someone throws out a random ultra for 40-60% damage and wins a round. All that work that one player put in is completely thrown away because the other player happened to do an ultra input. It happens online all the time, even in major tournaments! Those are just rolleyes moments for everyone: the loser, the crowd, even the winner who knows he got lucky. Who just throws out random ultras and connects at tournament level play? Not to mention, ultra comebacks are always hype with the crowd. I never knew there were people that thought ultras were lame -_- It happens all the time in competitive play! Not in a majority of games, but it happens in important matches at many tournaments. Playing sick footsies and landing a BnB that you confirm INTO an ultra is hype, and my favorite application of the mechanic. Daigo v Gamerbee at EVO anyone? But raw ultras that land, either as punishment or just a fluke, and destroy a 50+% lead, are not hype. Comebacks are always hype to me, specifically when someone has a nice read and catches a non respectful player with an ultra :D. Without that mechanic, players that are in a sizable lead would have almost nothing to fear, which reduces the intensity of the match for everyone including spectators.
Well there are certainly ultras that are exceptions, such as those which are almost entirely read based (Mike's Honda U1, Gief's U2 are amazing fun to watch). Idk I guess I'm just using some gruesome examples in my head and being a bit misleading. There are a good handful of ultras that are usually pure reads, and of course those are very fun to watch and make the game dynamic interesting.
That being said, I'd still stand behind the idea of having ultras do a static amount of damage, and simply turn on after taking a certain amount of beating.
Like I said, punishment or fluke is usually not fun, even though it's entirely the advantaged player's fault of course. And it certainly happens at high levels. But there are read-based ultras that make the game super intense, and are usually crowd favorites. It all depends on who and what you're talking about, imo. Didn't mean to mislead.
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You could also argue that a "fluke" ultra was just an excellent read, or perhaps an intelligent gamble that paid off. That is definitely an important aspect of high level SF4, afterall. I find those just as entertaining as fadc into ultra combos tbh. If it whiffs you end up looking pretty silly though lol.
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I don't see how punishment with ultra is any less hype than punishment with something else. Punish combo with BnB with no risk, whoopeedeedoo.
It also is never "fluke" unless you accidentally get the ultra inputs while mashing something else, by the way.
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On June 01 2013 03:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:
You could also argue that a "fluke" ultra was just an excellent read, or perhaps an intelligent gamble that paid off. That is definitely an important aspect of high level SF4, afterall. I find those just as entertaining as fadc into ultra combos tbh. If it whiffs you end up looking pretty silly though lol.
Serpent Snake Jwong special. ; )
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Ultras (I'm mainly talking about damage here) were boring/lame in vanilla, they're fine in AE imho.
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On June 01 2013 02:11 Trumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 12:50 2WeaK wrote:So I'm going to my first tournament this Saturday, it's going to be streams, so I'm hoping to make it on stream. However, I think that I'm getting nervous. I'm not positive, because it's not the "traditional" nervousness that I'm used to, but rather whenever I play online, or practice my combos in training mode and make dumb mistakes, I actually get frustrated, but not quite mad. I have caught myself slashing my hand through the air after a dropped combo or a "dumb trade". This isn't normal for me, if I do something stupid, I normally just have a quick twitch with my left eye and I'm back in my game. I'm scared that this might affect my game in a negative way because I have almost thrown away a game because of this frustration. Is this normal that your reactions change right before a tournament? For that matter, I play Rose, but a really rush down Rose. I also play Yun, but I'm too relentless for my own good with Yun, so I'm thinking of going out with Rose here. Does anyone have any tips on what to practice for before a tournament? + Show Spoiler +Well this pretty much turned out to be a blog post, sorry. I guess? The most important thing to do at tournaments is talk to the other local players so you don't have to play online all the time!! As for actual performance, I like to have a powerade / gatorade drink with me throughout the tourney. Try not to worry about the bracket, just play your matches as they come.
Yeah, forgot to point out that I normally go once or twice a month to my local scene, but its an hour and a half commute to and a 2 hour and a half commute back. (late night public transit ftl). I usually do fairly well in casuals(35-45% win rate depending on the night), but because it's a tournament, I'm actually getting frustrated as a practice, which is very atypical of me.
Thanks to all of those who replied, I am actually have been less frustrated since I made that post, I guess I just needed to get it off my chest. 
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United States12256 Posts
On June 01 2013 04:00 Shikyo wrote:
I don't see how punishment with ultra is any less hype than punishment with something else. Punish combo with BnB with no risk, whoopeedeedoo.
It also is never "fluke" unless you accidentally get the ultra inputs while mashing something else, by the way.
A punish with ultra is very different than an ultra in the middle of a tick throw attempt or frame trap or on wakeup. The former is totally fine, the latter is what leaves streamchat spamming "fraud!"
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Valhalla18444 Posts
unsafe options get way more flak in sf4 than in any other game. and i don't remember the last time i saw someone just do an ultra through a tick throw attempt or frame trap. its not any more or less stupid than a DP, and nobody can do 60% with an ultra anymore. except T Hawk.
honestly i haven't seen the prototypical scrub ultra in a long-ass time from anyone besides complete online scrubs. and i mean the sort who don't know how to do ANYTHING
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I have no problem with the random ultra as long as it's damage isn't too high. More than 35-40% and it starts to feel like the match outcome can depend on 1 guess or mistake. But the difficulty of landing it should also be taken into account, of course.
Still, Zangief's Full U1 does 520, that's 65% of Seth's 800 HP, right? Nice...
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Valhalla18444 Posts
but it's such a rarity, especially in high level play. there's a lot of legitimate complaints about sf4, chief among them is how setup-centric the game is right now. untechable knockdown -> guess wrong, eat 400 damage. that's a real legitimate problem, but it doesn't keep the game from being fun. random ultras happen so seldomly, and are ineffective most of the time they appear.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
also the only characters that can do that much damage to Seth with a full raw ultra are like, gief and hawk, and both of those dudes get fucked up by seth lol
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EXCELLENT my flame bait was successful.
But seriously raw ultra is always an option. I don't like that some people's ultras are scarier than others, but its the game we were given.
That being said I don't know if the Seth chip-out videos are still relevant but death by ultra chip is pretty gosh darn lame.
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On June 01 2013 08:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
but it's such a rarity, especially in high level play. there's a lot of legitimate complaints about sf4, chief among them is how setup-centric the game is right now. untechable knockdown -> guess wrong, eat 400 damage. that's a real legitimate problem, but it doesn't keep the game from being fun. random ultras happen so seldomly, and are ineffective most of the time they appear.
This is my number one complaint about SF4. Who the fuck thought it was good game design to decide if I win a match or not based on a coin-flip decision.
Random ultras are not as bad, but sometimes it really does piss me off that I lose a fucking match FOR WINNING IT. Ugh.
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Annoyed by endless 50/50 situations ?
Tired of option-select wars ?
Disgruntled by Just-Do-It-Ultra's ?
Fed up with "hard-to-blockables" ?
Then wait no longer ! Act today ! Drop that Zero and get with a Hero !
The Best-FG-EVAR-Bus-Tour runs day and night and is accepting all passengers !
Destination: Guilty Gear, population: Hype !
You deserve this ! You want this ! You need this ! Stop mashing and start clashing !
GET YOUR TICKET TODAY !
![[image loading]](http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs40/i/2009/006/1/7/Guilty_gear_wallpaper_by_9warbane.jpg)
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EPT
