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On June 02 2011 16:19 Gryffindor_us wrote:As mentioned I think the only thing that KotOR has over KotOR2 is + Show Spoiler [Only if you finished both] +relationship with Bastila. To me, K2's characters are so vastly superior in almost every regard excepting HK-47 and Canderous who are present in both obviously. Yes, K1 was a very quintessential Star Wars story, but that's both a strength and a weakness. I think K2 took it and made it so much more. Even the way the story progresses seems more realistic. There is some meandering but to me that really mimics how life is in a lot of ways. HK-47's rendition of Carth in K2 is amazingly awesome and sadly brief.
I obviously don't need to say anything about Kreia, she speaks for herself as a character. Sadly in K1 you basically had a group of light siders and that was immensely disappointing. Jolee even was a light sider acting like he was neutral. My final point before it sounds like I think K1 is a bad game which is completely not what I feel about it: the darkside decisions in K2 are so much more thoughtful than K1 lol. In K1 it's all about killing someone before they talk and in K2 you can be intelligently evil and manipulate people rather than just violent. Anyway, HK-47 and Kreia are the stars of the games. Sooooooo much fun.
Oh, one last thing. K1 definitely has more challenging combat. The only fight that was remotely difficult for me in K2 was the end as a pure lightsider consular I think and that was because Traya's blades seemed to eat me alive for some reason. Even then, my first run through of K1 I was a light sider consular too and good god do you know how much of a bitch that was against Malak with no ability to drain the tanks LOL. I kited him around FOREVER. Poor character creation on my part that first time.
You forgot about + Show Spoiler +not all companions being Jedi/Jediable, while in K1 you got 3 Jedi companions in K2 you get 2 and can turn 4 more into them. It leaves you only with poor Mandalore, Hanharr and droids that can't become Jedi. I disliked this fact about K2 a lot.
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On June 02 2011 16:29 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 16:19 Gryffindor_us wrote:As mentioned I think the only thing that KotOR has over KotOR2 is + Show Spoiler [Only if you finished both] +relationship with Bastila. To me, K2's characters are so vastly superior in almost every regard excepting HK-47 and Canderous who are present in both obviously. Yes, K1 was a very quintessential Star Wars story, but that's both a strength and a weakness. I think K2 took it and made it so much more. Even the way the story progresses seems more realistic. There is some meandering but to me that really mimics how life is in a lot of ways. HK-47's rendition of Carth in K2 is amazingly awesome and sadly brief.
I obviously don't need to say anything about Kreia, she speaks for herself as a character. Sadly in K1 you basically had a group of light siders and that was immensely disappointing. Jolee even was a light sider acting like he was neutral. My final point before it sounds like I think K1 is a bad game which is completely not what I feel about it: the darkside decisions in K2 are so much more thoughtful than K1 lol. In K1 it's all about killing someone before they talk and in K2 you can be intelligently evil and manipulate people rather than just violent. Anyway, HK-47 and Kreia are the stars of the games. Sooooooo much fun.
Oh, one last thing. K1 definitely has more challenging combat. The only fight that was remotely difficult for me in K2 was the end as a pure lightsider consular I think and that was because Traya's blades seemed to eat me alive for some reason. Even then, my first run through of K1 I was a light sider consular too and good god do you know how much of a bitch that was against Malak with no ability to drain the tanks LOL. I kited him around FOREVER. Poor character creation on my part that first time. You forgot about + Show Spoiler +not all companions being Jedi/Jediable, while in K1 you got 3 Jedi companions in K2 you get 2 and can turn 4 more into them. It leaves you only with poor Mandalore, Hanharr and droids that can't become Jedi. I disliked this fact about K2 a lot. .
The other thing that bothered me is the fact that lore conflicts with game mechanics in regards to some characters.
For example, Canderous, Mandalore, and Zalbaar all have lots of feats regarding ranged weapons, come with specialty ranged weapons catered to them, yet have shit for Dex and high Str/Con making them better as melee fighters. Mandalore in particular comes so late in the game that his feats are all wasted on ranged stuff so you can't even swap him to be a melee fighter. It was so irritating.
Same thing with Mission coming with a specialized Vibroblade, makes no bloody sense.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm well aware the first two are the same person, but I don't like spoilers.
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In K1 I've always used Canderous as a melee fighter, the same goes for Zaalbar.
Mission's vibroblade is pretty understandable, as they wanted her to be the stealth+backstab girl. Doesn't change the fact that I've always just gave her a blaster.
In K2 Mandalore is useless overall, by the time you get him (assuming you're playing DS so you'd want to use him) you have Hanharr, who is the best melee character in the game and HK-47, who's better at ranged combat than Mandalore. He's this novelty thing that doesn't really serve any purpose but to push the story forward.
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Wow, so KOTOR is considered one of the "old classic RPGs" now? It was only 7 years ago goddamit. Guess thats a long time for some people.
Great game though. I thought the 2nd one didnt get enough credit, it was rushed but there was a lot to enjoy and sadly, a lot of unfulfilled potential, but thats been the case with almost every Obsidian game so far (havent played NWN 2 yet)
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KOTOR 2's ending just left me with a sour taste in my mouth. Real shame that it was rushed so much, because it almost made no sense. Both pretty great games though. I wish Bioware would just make KOTOR 3 already.
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Oh god. Epic game. Loved it at the time, I might reinstall it.. :D
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On June 02 2011 23:26 Manit0u wrote:
So yeah, 7 years is a lot (especially for people who are like 16 now).
Yeah, but I think theres a much bigger difference between a game in 2000 and a game in 1993 then there is in 2012 vs 2004, because gaming technology accelerated quicker back then.
But it probably just seemed that way 'cause I was 16 in 2000, haha.
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Well I took the bait and downloading it right now from steam. Played Origins DA2 Witcher 1 and 2 and Mass Effects and hoping this delivers also! 
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On June 02 2011 23:35 Spitfire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 23:26 Manit0u wrote:
So yeah, 7 years is a lot (especially for people who are like 16 now). Yeah, but I think theres a much bigger difference between a game in 2000 and a game in 1993 then there is in 2012 vs 2004, because gaming technology accelerated quicker back then. But it probably just seemed that way 'cause I was 16 in 2000, haha.
+ Show Spoiler +
That's difference between 2004 and 2008.
2011 for comparison:
+ Show Spoiler +
You still think the gap isn't that big?
Edit:
@Shagg:
Please do remember about the mods in the OP. They'll make your experience much better.
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Ye I grabbed the mods from OP.
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Oh man how I've missed this game till now. Gonna play it soon because it looks like that can run on my crap PC.
Lately every RPG I've played after Planescape : Torment bores me to death but im willing to give this one a try.
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On May 24 2011 09:26 jalstar wrote:
I'm in the minority that likes the second one better. Much better in fact, I felt the first one was sort of a rehash of A New Hope with renamed characters, while the second one was a more personal journey that took an approach to morality that was completely unprecedented in Star Wars games.
I would have liked the 2nd one better if it had been actually finished by Obsidian. The game had missing parts, conversations, cutscenes had huge plot holes, contunity errors. I'm not talking about "why can't Jimmy just cut Tychus out of his explosive-rigged armor with some kind of operation" kind plot holes, but actual idiotisms in the game. If you went dark side at one point of the game you killed one of your companion, but he was still in a cutscene afterwards, and was on the ship... It had a considerable amount of gameplay bugs too, I think most of this has been patched and taken care of.
Other than this, both Kotor were awesome games, way superior action and rpg elements than in Mass Effect, NPC interaction was jaw dropping for that time, the games were actually challenging and so on, and so on.
Also for the Oblivion kids there is a game called Morrowind, so they could see how Bethesda dumbed down The Elder Scrolls (and I don't have any confidence at all they won't continue the process with Skyrim (although I am gonna play it for hundreds of hours for sure)).
And all the Bioware fanboys should also try Baldur's Gate, you they'd see what Bioware was like when they actually made rpgs.
And the Icewind Dale games, and Planescape Torment. My god Planescape... No, I won't write 20.000 characters about that game, I must just resist the urge.
And I'm not even gonna mention Deus Ex, nope not a single word, none at all.
If you are under 18 and have not played at least 2 of these games, you immediately should, if you're over 18 and still haven't played these... WTF ARE YOU DOING, YOUR LAZYASS SHOULD BE THROWN TO JAIL, NOW GTFO AND PLAY THEM.
(oh yeah, and System Shock 2)
Cheers 
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Are any of these games freely available? In the sense that I wont have to torrent a billion files to get it up and running.
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On June 03 2011 03:38 Cadaver!! wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 09:26 jalstar wrote:
I'm in the minority that likes the second one better. Much better in fact, I felt the first one was sort of a rehash of A New Hope with renamed characters, while the second one was a more personal journey that took an approach to morality that was completely unprecedented in Star Wars games. I would have liked the 2nd one better if it had been actually finished by Obsidian. The game had missing parts, conversations, cutscenes had huge plot holes, contunity errors. I'm not talking about "why can't Jimmy just cut Tychus out of his explosive-rigged armor with some kind of operation" kind plot holes, but actual idiotisms in the game. If you went dark side at one point of the game you killed one of your companion, but he was still in a cutscene afterwards, and was on the ship... It had a considerable amount of gameplay bugs too, I think most of this has been patched and taken care of. Other than this, both Kotor were awesome games, way superior action and rpg elements than in Mass Effect, NPC interaction was jaw dropping for that time, the games were actually challenging and so on, and so on. Also for the Oblivion kids there is a game called Morrowind, so they could see how Bethesda dumbed down The Elder Scrolls (and I don't have any confidence at all they won't continue the process with Skyrim (although I am gonna play it for hundreds of hours for sure)). And all the Bioware fanboys should also try Baldur's Gate, you they'd see what Bioware was like when they actually made rpgs. And the Icewind Dale games, and Planescape Torment. My god Planescape... No, I won't write 20.000 characters about that game, I must just resist the urge. And I'm not even gonna mention Deus Ex, nope not a single word, none at all. If you are under 18 and have not played at least 2 of these games, you immediately should, if you're over 18 and still haven't played these... WTF ARE YOU DOING, YOUR LAZYASS SHOULD BE THROWN TO JAIL, NOW GTFO AND PLAY THEM. (oh yeah, and System Shock 2) Cheers
KotOR vs KotOR 2 suffers from the same thing that BG1 vs BG2 and Morrowind vs Oblivion did: The latter feels unplayable after you played the former. The advances in the UI and controls are just so immense that even if the story is worse or you don't like the characters as much, you can't go back to the old one because it feels so shitty to play.
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On May 24 2011 09:26 jalstar wrote:
I'm in the minority that likes the second one better. Much better in fact, I felt the first one was sort of a rehash of A New Hope with renamed characters, while the second one was a more personal journey that took an approach to morality that was completely unprecedented in Star Wars games.
I agree. I liked the second one much better.
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On June 03 2011 03:50 Ace wrote:
Are any of these games freely available? In the sense that I wont have to torrent a billion files to get it up and running.
Most of this games are very hard (if at all possible) to buy now.
KotOR 1 is available via Steam, as for the BG/ID/PT and DE games you can get them here and here.
But for the BG series you'll still need to get the mods (like EasyTutu or BGT and widescreen mod) to be able to enjoy them this days. There's a thread dedicated to Baldur's Gate somewhere on TL.net, pretty recent too. Found it here. You can skim through it to find links to mods.
Oh, what the hell, I'll just find them for you:
BGT
EasyTutu
Widescreen mod for PT, BG, ID.
Enjoy.
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On June 03 2011 04:28 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2011 03:50 Ace wrote:
Are any of these games freely available? In the sense that I wont have to torrent a billion files to get it up and running. Most of this games are very hard (if at all possible) to buy now. KotOR 1 is available via Steam, as for the BG/ID/PT and DE games you can get them here and here. But for the BG series you'll still need to get the mods (like EasyTutu or BGT and widescreen mod) to be able to enjoy them this days. There's a thread dedicated to Baldur's Gate somewhere on TL.net, pretty recent too. Found it here. You can skim through it to find links to mods. Oh, what the hell, I'll just find them for you: BGTEasyTutuWidescreen mod for PT, BG, ID. Enjoy.
Baldur's Gate W/O DRM or waiting for shipping:
http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/baldurs_gate_2_complete
Seriously, GoG has most everything now, the only things they're missing are some that are tied up in decade-old legal battles over rights (like Deus Ex).
Oh, as far as getting them for "free"?
You'd have to pirate them, but why bother, they're cheap as dirt now.
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Good post, KOTOR 1 is one of my favourite games ever, and I even liked the sequel. I'd rank KOTOR 1 up there with any RPG as it truly is a masterpiece, and it is one of those games that is not too long or too short but just right at around ~40 exciting hours per play through.
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thanks for the links, looking into getting both of these soon.
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