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Tribes: Ascend - FPS announced by Hi-Rez Studios. - Page 172

Forum Index > General Games
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Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
May 24 2012 01:49 GMT
#3421
Your TS doesn't seem to work anymore T_T.
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
seequeue
Profile Joined March 2007
United States47 Posts
May 24 2012 05:06 GMT
#3422
On May 22 2012 17:03 Muey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 08:41 NukeD wrote:
Also, what is the element that would make T1 worthy of being an esport if it was released right now and not T:A?

I don't think base T1 as-is would be very good as an esport to be honest. If you want to go down the "base" gameplay road, T2c is a much better game in terms of overall gameplay breadth and equipment balance, and would offer a better base on which to build a new title on.


I don't see why something like T1 LT (5v5 spawn-in-loadout CTF with light armor, epack,disc,chain, nadelauncher, hand nades) OTOH couldn't work. Small team sizes, fast pace, with much emphasis on individual player skill and player coordination. I guess it could be somewhat repetitive from a spectator point of view, but then again I don't see how that's much different from say, current form T:A or CS.

Why T1 and not T:A 5v5 pathfinder-only CTF? Because the movement mechanics and physics are miles better in the former for the type of game.


Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 08:41 NukeD wrote:
Im asking out of curiosity, being a newbie at the game, and not having played T1 and 2, I really cant see anything wrong with the game... except maybe snipers being too stronk...

Also, Ive read a lot of posts (so Im not just spoilt and asking to do my work for me, at least I hope) and there were a lot of valid complaints from the start of the beta to now, like inheritence, pysics, then pricing model, shrikes, chainguns, chasing, etc. But Im not sure exactly which one of those would make the competitive teams not participate in ladder like the person above pointed out.

I think the main issue people have is that of all the gameplay and mechanic changes in T:A, very few have actually improved it or imbued more depth into the game, where as quite many have changed the game for the worse.

The reason why the community is pretty sour in general though is that T:A could be a lot better ( - if different from its predecessors) game than it currently is if the developers weren't so stubborn about some of the design choices.


Shortlist of what's precieved as a problem or part of a bigger problem with the game:
- physics are needlessly limiting and a terribly unintuitive mess of corner cases and special rules
- health regen is plain bad and fucks up a lot of things (chasing, offensive base turtles) in the gameplay
- two weapon limit and slow weapon switch times makes for boring and simple combat mechanics and weapon balance, problem is further exacerbated by the physics/movement model

- air control (+regen) is a huge boon for cappers and opens up essentially limitless route possibilities
- game lacks a reliable method to stop cappers cold on stand
- snipers are overpowered because they need to be because of ^^ and no chasing
- spotting mechanic is stupidly abusable

this is a remarkably accurate post.
t2c with a few balance tweaks and solid maps would be a fantastic competitive game. t:a has a lot of issues that the top comp players (who actually know what they're talking about) have been telling the devs since alpha and early closed beta, and they have hardly responded at all (or responded with silly things like the rage perk which really doesn't make sense or work in a practical setting).
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
May 24 2012 05:08 GMT
#3423
On May 24 2012 14:06 seequeue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2012 17:03 Muey wrote:
On May 22 2012 08:41 NukeD wrote:
Also, what is the element that would make T1 worthy of being an esport if it was released right now and not T:A?

I don't think base T1 as-is would be very good as an esport to be honest. If you want to go down the "base" gameplay road, T2c is a much better game in terms of overall gameplay breadth and equipment balance, and would offer a better base on which to build a new title on.


I don't see why something like T1 LT (5v5 spawn-in-loadout CTF with light armor, epack,disc,chain, nadelauncher, hand nades) OTOH couldn't work. Small team sizes, fast pace, with much emphasis on individual player skill and player coordination. I guess it could be somewhat repetitive from a spectator point of view, but then again I don't see how that's much different from say, current form T:A or CS.

Why T1 and not T:A 5v5 pathfinder-only CTF? Because the movement mechanics and physics are miles better in the former for the type of game.


On May 22 2012 08:41 NukeD wrote:
Im asking out of curiosity, being a newbie at the game, and not having played T1 and 2, I really cant see anything wrong with the game... except maybe snipers being too stronk...

Also, Ive read a lot of posts (so Im not just spoilt and asking to do my work for me, at least I hope) and there were a lot of valid complaints from the start of the beta to now, like inheritence, pysics, then pricing model, shrikes, chainguns, chasing, etc. But Im not sure exactly which one of those would make the competitive teams not participate in ladder like the person above pointed out.

I think the main issue people have is that of all the gameplay and mechanic changes in T:A, very few have actually improved it or imbued more depth into the game, where as quite many have changed the game for the worse.

The reason why the community is pretty sour in general though is that T:A could be a lot better ( - if different from its predecessors) game than it currently is if the developers weren't so stubborn about some of the design choices.


Shortlist of what's precieved as a problem or part of a bigger problem with the game:
- physics are needlessly limiting and a terribly unintuitive mess of corner cases and special rules
- health regen is plain bad and fucks up a lot of things (chasing, offensive base turtles) in the gameplay
- two weapon limit and slow weapon switch times makes for boring and simple combat mechanics and weapon balance, problem is further exacerbated by the physics/movement model

- air control (+regen) is a huge boon for cappers and opens up essentially limitless route possibilities
- game lacks a reliable method to stop cappers cold on stand
- snipers are overpowered because they need to be because of ^^ and no chasing
- spotting mechanic is stupidly abusable

this is a remarkably accurate post.
t2c with a few balance tweaks and solid maps would be a fantastic competitive game. t:a has a lot of issues that the top comp players (who actually know what they're talking about) have been telling the devs since alpha and early closed beta, and they have hardly responded at all (or responded with silly things like the rage perk which really doesn't make sense or work in a practical setting).

Yes oh yes.
HEY HIREZ SNIPER IS OP
no problem guyz, nerf comin next patch
OMG
"Sniper falloff damage has been increased slightly"
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Pretty much what the hirez balance team and comp players have gone through.
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
Ryhzuo
Profile Joined November 2011
New Zealand198 Posts
May 26 2012 06:24 GMT
#3424
I don't think you can blame Hi-Rez too much for balancing around pub rather than competitive play. Tribes isn't like a board game where you can just make up the rules to in your own room some afternoon. This is a game that took money to make. A LOT of money.

The developers need to get paid. And where does that revenue come from? The casual players. It's only good business practice that they cater to them first. I would be disappointed if it happened any other way.

People need to get it out of their heads that somehow "eSports" and "competitive play" is just magically a thing now. It's not. You can argue good exposure and advertising you like, but until players who watch twitch streams actually go in-game and BUY GOLD, the developers ain't getting a cent of it.
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
May 26 2012 06:41 GMT
#3425
On May 26 2012 15:24 Ryhzuo wrote:
I don't think you can blame Hi-Rez too much for balancing around pub rather than competitive play. Tribes isn't like a board game where you can just make up the rules to in your own room some afternoon. This is a game that took money to make. A LOT of money.

The developers need to get paid. And where does that revenue come from? The casual players. It's only good business practice that they cater to them first. I would be disappointed if it happened any other way.

People need to get it out of their heads that somehow "eSports" and "competitive play" is just magically a thing now. It's not. You can argue good exposure and advertising you like, but until players who watch twitch streams actually go in-game and BUY GOLD, the developers ain't getting a cent of it.


Theres actually a lot of rules the comp scene can make. So much is customizable in the custom settings for servers. And if they opt to balance for pub instead of comp, than there won't be a comp scene as people would get frustrated with it.
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
BlindKill
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Australia1508 Posts
May 26 2012 07:08 GMT
#3426
I'm sure they can make a "competitive mode" where there are restrictions on broken weapons or damage changes.
“Life is a grindstone, and whether it grinds a man down or polishes him up depends on the stuff he's made of.”
Ryhzuo
Profile Joined November 2011
New Zealand198 Posts
May 26 2012 07:11 GMT
#3427
On May 26 2012 16:08 BlindKill wrote:
I'm sure they can make a "competitive mode" where there are restrictions on broken weapons or damage changes.


Of course they can make it. Who's going to pay them to do it?
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
May 26 2012 07:16 GMT
#3428
On May 26 2012 16:11 Ryhzuo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2012 16:08 BlindKill wrote:
I'm sure they can make a "competitive mode" where there are restrictions on broken weapons or damage changes.


Of course they can make it. Who's going to pay them to do it?


But we already have that. We can modify our own rules a ton. Sure theres a few things we can't do, like modify weapons. But we can do a lot already, what more do we need to do and why?
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
Ryhzuo
Profile Joined November 2011
New Zealand198 Posts
May 26 2012 08:58 GMT
#3429
On May 26 2012 16:16 TBone- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2012 16:11 Ryhzuo wrote:
On May 26 2012 16:08 BlindKill wrote:
I'm sure they can make a "competitive mode" where there are restrictions on broken weapons or damage changes.


Of course they can make it. Who's going to pay them to do it?


But we already have that. We can modify our own rules a ton. Sure theres a few things we can't do, like modify weapons. But we can do a lot already, what more do we need to do and why?


You're right, we can already do that. And we do. To my knowledge, plasma gun and jackal are still both not allowed in competitive play. Vehicle prices are altered heavily and there is a 1 sniper per team limit.

But the thing is, just as you said, there is a limit to how much we can limit ourselves without modifying the base values and code. The more we ban, the more we eliminate the games' original flavor from competitive play, and by doing so we alienate casual viewers.

It's like if Starcraft II was an unbalanced game and one of the races was overpowered. Would the right thing to do be to ban that race from tournaments? For the same of competitive fairness it very well may be, but it also makes the game much more bland and uninteresting.

This is the number 1 reason why I could never get into competitive TF2.
BlindKill
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Australia1508 Posts
May 26 2012 09:05 GMT
#3430
I was thinking the community itself needs to take the initiative and form the competitive restrictions. Who else knows better about the balance than the compers
“Life is a grindstone, and whether it grinds a man down or polishes him up depends on the stuff he's made of.”
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
May 26 2012 09:16 GMT
#3431
On May 26 2012 18:05 BlindKill wrote:
I was thinking the community itself needs to take the initiative and form the competitive restrictions. Who else knows better about the balance than the compers


Thats how it works now, but the standards shift a lot. The only tournament that doesn't talk about rules with players is nasl.
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
Jetaap
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France4814 Posts
May 26 2012 15:01 GMT
#3432
I have 100 000 xp to spend...
I play raider quite a lot, I have the grenade launcher unlocked (got it for 120 gold with a deal) don't know if it's worth to buy the plasma gun.
I could also unlock the smg for the jug or the mines for doombringer and HOF defense ( they're so expensive <_<)
Any advice on a "must have" unlock? I play almost every class except brute and sentinel.I have the secondary weapons for pathfinder and soldier unlocked already.
pettter
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1032 Posts
May 26 2012 16:05 GMT
#3433
On May 27 2012 00:01 Jetaap wrote:
I have 100 000 xp to spend...
I play raider quite a lot, I have the grenade launcher unlocked (got it for 120 gold with a deal) don't know if it's worth to buy the plasma gun.
I could also unlock the smg for the jug or the mines for doombringer and HOF defense ( they're so expensive <_<)
Any advice on a "must have" unlock? I play almost every class except brute and sentinel.I have the secondary weapons for pathfinder and soldier unlocked already.

While bolt launcher is very nice (though even better when it could oneshot lights), I would say that the LMG for the jug is one of the more "must-have" weapons, since it'll let you actually kill LD that are trying to take you out.

Plasma gun seems rather nice, though I'm not a heavy raider-player by any means, but I would claim that ARX and nade launchers do most jobs as well as the plasma, and some jobs (clearing the stand, notably) better. Harder to get midairs, generally, but that's why you have the NJ4/5b anyway.

Mines are also very very nice, especially with full safety third, since the range gets kinda silly by then, but they are quite a bit cheaper than 100kxp iirc, so I would go for the LMG now, and the mines next time.

Alternatively, you just buy unlocks with gold and save the XP for upgrades
Coriolis
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1152 Posts
May 26 2012 16:18 GMT
#3434
Plasma gun is insanely OP. There is a reason its banned from competition.
Descolada in everything not TL/Starcraft
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
May 27 2012 02:19 GMT
#3435
Alright, so at the risk of looking like a retard, how do you reduce your zoom?
I know how to magnify your zoom, but not reduce it. I've gone to a Tribes wiki and I've looked through the hotkey section in settings many times over to no avail. Heck, the only indicator I have that you even CAN reduce your zoom is from watching some comp level snipers on youtube.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
May 27 2012 02:30 GMT
#3436
On May 27 2012 11:19 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Alright, so at the risk of looking like a retard, how do you reduce your zoom?
I know how to magnify your zoom, but not reduce it. I've gone to a Tribes wiki and I've looked through the hotkey section in settings many times over to no avail. Heck, the only indicator I have that you even CAN reduce your zoom is from watching some comp level snipers on youtube.


Mouse wheel down?
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-27 02:40:03
May 27 2012 02:37 GMT
#3437
On May 27 2012 11:30 TBone- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 11:19 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Alright, so at the risk of looking like a retard, how do you reduce your zoom?
I know how to magnify your zoom, but not reduce it. I've gone to a Tribes wiki and I've looked through the hotkey section in settings many times over to no avail. Heck, the only indicator I have that you even CAN reduce your zoom is from watching some comp level snipers on youtube.


Mouse wheel down?


Doesn't work. It was the very first thing I tried. Does it work for you?
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
May 27 2012 02:56 GMT
#3438
On May 27 2012 11:37 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 11:30 TBone- wrote:
On May 27 2012 11:19 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Alright, so at the risk of looking like a retard, how do you reduce your zoom?
I know how to magnify your zoom, but not reduce it. I've gone to a Tribes wiki and I've looked through the hotkey section in settings many times over to no avail. Heck, the only indicator I have that you even CAN reduce your zoom is from watching some comp level snipers on youtube.


Mouse wheel down?


Doesn't work. It was the very first thing I tried. Does it work for you?


Yeah it does, perhaps its a mouse problem?
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
May 27 2012 04:00 GMT
#3439
On May 27 2012 11:56 TBone- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 11:37 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On May 27 2012 11:30 TBone- wrote:
On May 27 2012 11:19 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Alright, so at the risk of looking like a retard, how do you reduce your zoom?
I know how to magnify your zoom, but not reduce it. I've gone to a Tribes wiki and I've looked through the hotkey section in settings many times over to no avail. Heck, the only indicator I have that you even CAN reduce your zoom is from watching some comp level snipers on youtube.


Mouse wheel down?


Doesn't work. It was the very first thing I tried. Does it work for you?


Yeah it does, perhaps its a mouse problem?


Not a mouse problem. I thought it was the fact I bound my weapon switch to scroll down on mouse wheel because that's what I'm used to. Unfortunately, I unbound that and nothing happened.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
May 27 2012 04:01 GMT
#3440
On May 27 2012 13:00 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 27 2012 11:56 TBone- wrote:
On May 27 2012 11:37 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On May 27 2012 11:30 TBone- wrote:
On May 27 2012 11:19 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Alright, so at the risk of looking like a retard, how do you reduce your zoom?
I know how to magnify your zoom, but not reduce it. I've gone to a Tribes wiki and I've looked through the hotkey section in settings many times over to no avail. Heck, the only indicator I have that you even CAN reduce your zoom is from watching some comp level snipers on youtube.


Mouse wheel down?


Doesn't work. It was the very first thing I tried. Does it work for you?


Yeah it does, perhaps its a mouse problem?


Not a mouse problem. I thought it was the fact I bound my weapon switch to scroll down on mouse wheel because that's what I'm used to. Unfortunately, I unbound that and nothing happened.


Try resetting hotkeys to default. That should fix it.
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
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