EPTTribes: Ascend - FPS announced by Hi-Rez Studios. - Page 171
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BlindKill
Australia1508 Posts
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Coriolis
United States1152 Posts
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
On May 22 2012 17:03 Muey wrote: I don't think base T1 as-is would be very good as an esport to be honest. If you want to go down the "base" gameplay road, T2c is a much better game in terms of overall gameplay breadth and equipment balance, and would offer a better base on which to build a new title on. I don't see why something like T1 LT (5v5 spawn-in-loadout CTF with light armor, epack,disc,chain, nadelauncher, hand nades) OTOH couldn't work. Small team sizes, fast pace, with much emphasis on individual player skill and player coordination. I guess it could be somewhat repetitive from a spectator point of view, but then again I don't see how that's much different from say, current form T:A or CS. Why T1 and not T:A 5v5 pathfinder-only CTF? Because the movement mechanics and physics are miles better in the former for the type of game. I think the main issue people have is that of all the gameplay and mechanic changes in T:A, very few have actually improved it or imbued more depth into the game, where as quite many have changed the game for the worse. The reason why the community is pretty sour in general though is that T:A could be a lot better ( - if different from its predecessors) game than it currently is if the developers weren't so stubborn about some of the design choices. Shortlist of what's precieved as a problem or part of a bigger problem with the game: - physics are needlessly limiting and a terribly unintuitive mess of corner cases and special rules - health regen is plain bad and fucks up a lot of things (chasing, offensive base turtles) in the gameplay - two weapon limit and slow weapon switch times makes for boring and simple combat mechanics and weapon balance, problem is further exacerbated by the physics/movement model - air control (+regen) is a huge boon for cappers and opens up essentially limitless route possibilities - game lacks a reliable method to stop cappers cold on stand - snipers are overpowered because they need to be because of ^^ and no chasing - spotting mechanic is stupidly abusable That was a really solid post. But I'm wondering how you would get rid of health regen while still making cappers fast enough vs snipers. I mean that limits you to essentially a disc jump and a conc. Which is just not that fast. It would also break a lot of routes currently for cappers. | ||
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pettter
Sweden1032 Posts
I don't know what your problem is with spotting mechanics? You mean that you can spot things that you may not actually have 'noticed'? That would be an issue with pretty much any spotting mechanic that doesn't require absolute pinpoint accuracy. However, I completely agree that the physics system could use an overhaul. I'm not even sure if it would have to impact very many people in a big way. Just make it more consistent, overall, and I would be happy. | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
On May 23 2012 01:28 pettter wrote: As a capper/chaser, I really like the Rage change. Health regen is not a problem in my book, or rather, at least not for chasing/capping. The only issue I have with it would be that competent jugs with LMG/disc can narrowly survive one wave of LD trying to off him, only to go back to mortarspam and regen health until the next wave comes in. Of course, having people drop health packs upon death would have kinda the same effect, so it really isn't a big deal. I don't know what your problem is with spotting mechanics? You mean that you can spot things that you may not actually have 'noticed'? That would be an issue with pretty much any spotting mechanic that doesn't require absolute pinpoint accuracy. However, I completely agree that the physics system could use an overhaul. I'm not even sure if it would have to impact very many people in a big way. Just make it more consistent, overall, and I would be happy. On some maps its really easy to spot incoming cappers. Sometimes even 30 seconds out. From your own base. And on the health regen part, the problem is that LO/HO can survive and camp your base forever, and thats because of health regen and dropped ammo. So if you eliminate health regen, then eventually they will go down. But you have to have health regen for cappers or they are just to slow and most of the routes now would become non-viable. Perhaps adding in a health regen perk, or even a structure powered by the generator giving the health regen(if gen down no health regen). | ||
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GARO
United States2255 Posts
Either that, or just run PC as secondary on everything and hope the guy you're fighting isn't actually a Raider. | ||
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Coriolis
United States1152 Posts
On May 23 2012 01:38 TBone- wrote: On some maps its really easy to spot incoming cappers. Sometimes even 30 seconds out. From your own base. And on the health regen part, the problem is that LO/HO can survive and camp your base forever, and thats because of health regen and dropped ammo. So if you eliminate health regen, then eventually they will go down. But you have to have health regen for cappers or they are just to slow and most of the routes now would become non-viable. Perhaps adding in a health regen perk, or even a structure powered by the generator giving the health regen(if gen down no health regen). Only really bad cappers. The good ones will be better at hiding. It drives me crazy that people think fast=good capper when in reality sneaky=good capper. Going fast isn't that hard. | ||
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pettter
Sweden1032 Posts
On May 23 2012 06:35 Coriolis wrote: Only really bad cappers. The good ones will be better at hiding. It drives me crazy that people think fast=good capper when in reality sneaky=good capper. Going fast isn't that hard. Well, you need to be both (relatively) fast and sneaky. 200-250 is decent if you can get in and out without being spotted, at least if you're going back to front, but if you're doing side-to-sides, you generally want to get above 250 to get far enough ahead of chasers that they won't catch up as easily, and to avoid shrikes/snipes somewhat. Edit: obviously ~300 is better, and the higher you get, but 250-300 is generally a good compromise between speed, angle, set-up time and vision avoidance. Front-to-backs, of course, are generally strictly e-grab material, though there are a few maps that make anything else tricky (katabatic DS, notably since the setup for back-to-front/side to sideish are so much longer). Of course, I haven't even played a single PUG yet, so what do I know? | ||
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Keltanokka
Finland279 Posts
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
On May 22 2012 17:03 Muey wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2012 08:41 NukeD wrote: Also, what is the element that would make T1 worthy of being an esport if it was released right now and not T:A? I don't think base T1 as-is would be very good as an esport to be honest. If you want to go down the "base" gameplay road, T2c is a much better game in terms of overall gameplay breadth and equipment balance, and would offer a better base on which to build a new title on. I don't see why something like T1 LT (5v5 spawn-in-loadout CTF with light armor, epack,disc,chain, nadelauncher, hand nades) OTOH couldn't work. Small team sizes, fast pace, with much emphasis on individual player skill and player coordination. I guess it could be somewhat repetitive from a spectator point of view, but then again I don't see how that's much different from say, current form T:A or CS. Why T1 and not T:A 5v5 pathfinder-only CTF? Because the movement mechanics and physics are miles better in the former for the type of game. On May 22 2012 08:41 NukeD wrote: Im asking out of curiosity, being a newbie at the game, and not having played T1 and 2, I really cant see anything wrong with the game... except maybe snipers being too stronk... Also, Ive read a lot of posts (so Im not just spoilt and asking to do my work for me, at least I hope) and there were a lot of valid complaints from the start of the beta to now, like inheritence, pysics, then pricing model, shrikes, chainguns, chasing, etc. But Im not sure exactly which one of those would make the competitive teams not participate in ladder like the person above pointed out. I think the main issue people have is that of all the gameplay and mechanic changes in T:A, very few have actually improved it or imbued more depth into the game, where as quite many have changed the game for the worse. The reason why the community is pretty sour in general though is that T:A could be a lot better ( - if different from its predecessors) game than it currently is if the developers weren't so stubborn about some of the design choices. Shortlist of what's precieved as a problem or part of a bigger problem with the game: - physics are needlessly limiting and a terribly unintuitive mess of corner cases and special rules - health regen is plain bad and fucks up a lot of things (chasing, offensive base turtles) in the gameplay - two weapon limit and slow weapon switch times makes for boring and simple combat mechanics and weapon balance, problem is further exacerbated by the physics/movement model - air control (+regen) is a huge boon for cappers and opens up essentially limitless route possibilities - game lacks a reliable method to stop cappers cold on stand - snipers are overpowered because they need to be because of ^^ and no chasing - spotting mechanic is stupidly abusable Spotting mechanic is abusable? I don't see how. You can't spam it, and you can inform your teammates faster about the location of an enemy via things like Teamspeak. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
On May 22 2012 13:37 Coriolis wrote: Half an hour? More like 10 minutes. Though tbh neither game is worth being an esport but both are worth being competitive games. I take it you think it doesn't make the cut for esports because it isn't spectator friendly enough, like almost every other FPS. | ||
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Coriolis
United States1152 Posts
On May 23 2012 07:16 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: I take it you think it doesn't make the cut for esports because it isn't spectator friendly enough, like almost every other FPS. That and the team sizes. More importantly the team sizes. | ||
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FishStix
United States425 Posts
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Coriolis
United States1152 Posts
On May 23 2012 13:03 FishStix wrote: Streaming the new Tribes patch with friends - come tune in :D http://twitch.tv/fishstix1 brb joining your server and raping you | ||
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MisterD
Germany1338 Posts
On May 23 2012 07:12 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Spotting mechanic is abusable? I don't see how. You can't spam it, and you can inform your teammates faster about the location of an enemy via things like Teamspeak. you can spam it every five or so seconds once in every 4 major directions a capper could come from without triggering the spam protection lock. And in those cases, it will point out incoming players even if you can't actually see them due to two pixels size and fog because of an enormous distance. It still sets the marker. It's super easy to abuse this stuff. Try roll a sentinel on raindance for instance, put yourself ontop of the flag tower(hope that there aren't any good players on the other team that clear you of frequently, happens often enough in pubs) and just tap spotting once towards 1) the slope in the center of the map left of the brige, 2) the big hill to the far left and 3) the valley to the right and if you are bored even 4) the "lolz i can mortar your flagstand and your whole team keeps failing to kill me" hill to the right. You can easily keep most of your spotting covered by just abusing the markers without actually looking for the enemies yourself. In addition, your whole team gets permanently notified of almost any incoming enemy, except those that come down the slope right of the bride, but everyone sees those easily by themselves. And even better, the spotting immediately tells you, if it's light, medium or heavy, so you immediately know if it's worth charging your BTX. | ||
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3772
Czech Republic434 Posts
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
4) the "lolz i can mortar your flagstand and your whole team keeps failing to kill me" hill to the right. Fucking hate this shit, to the point of me going to kill that guy with my shitty nova blaster and actually doing it without a problem, the fuck are those pathfinders doing with him? | ||
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pettter
Sweden1032 Posts
Then Badding decided that I was a nuicance and killed me. | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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Binky1842
United States2599 Posts
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