|
On May 30 2011 00:46 NikonTC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 00:42 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:39 NikonTC wrote:On May 30 2011 00:38 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:31 NikonTC wrote:On May 30 2011 00:29 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote:
How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.> lolwhat? staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ? His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to. Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too. You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement  im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong. But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again  I'm not claiming he is a bad driver, but the accident in qualifying yesterday gifted him pole, the first safety car gave him track position that he otherwise wouldn't have had. The second safety car gave him new tyres that he desperately needed. In fact we just heard on the BBC commentary that Red Bulls initial plan was to put super soft tyres on vettels car at his first pitstop. They messed up and ACCIDENTLY put the harder tyre on, which allowed him to do his "60 laps" desperation strategy in the first place, otherwise he'd have had to stop again. I'm sorry but that's just too much luck for me to put this down as an actual win for him. He's had 5 wins this season where noone could stop him really, this wasn't one of them.
if thats true with the supersofts its really lucky, yes ;P
But let us look at his bad luck last season, I say he deserves a good potion of good luck this time
|
About the Hamilton - Massa chicane incident.
First of all everybody seems to forget a similar incident at the same spot happened earlier in the race between Di Resta and Alguersuari. They collided the same way Massa and Hamilton did and the end result was the same. The overtaking car got a drive-through penalty since if a crash happens then it's the fault of the overtaker because the overtaking car must always make sure the pass does not cause a collision.
|
On May 30 2011 01:10 vennike wrote:
About the Hamilton - Massa chicane incident.
First of all everybody seems to forget a similar incident at the same spot happened earlier in the race between Di Resta and Alguersuari. They collided the same way Massa and Hamilton did and the end result was the same. The overtaking car got a drive-through penalty since if a crash happens then it's the fault of the overtaker because the overtaking car must always make sure the pass does not cause a collision.
It wasnt the same, DiResta overcooked it and just smashed into the side of the car he was overtaking. He admitted as much himself. They were similar but i think DiResta's was slightly worse, hence why he lost his front wing. That said, i didnt think it was worthy of a penalty either. Later in the race when he smashed into the back of D'Ambrosio was much worse for me and i think that one was worthy of a penalty which he didnt recieve.
|
On May 30 2011 00:42 RmpL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 00:39 NikonTC wrote:On May 30 2011 00:38 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:31 NikonTC wrote:On May 30 2011 00:29 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote:
How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.> lolwhat? staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ? His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to. Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too. You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong. But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps.
|
On May 30 2011 01:25 bmml wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 00:42 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:39 NikonTC wrote:On May 30 2011 00:38 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:31 NikonTC wrote:On May 30 2011 00:29 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote:
How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.> lolwhat? staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ? His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to. Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too. You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong. But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps.
No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it. If he and the team didn't think that they could stay first until the end, they would have changed the tires much earlier.
|
I don't think Massa sees Hamilton at all. He's too busy looking at the car in front of him.
Watch the race from the 44th second. Hamilton sees Schumacher up the inside of him exaclty as he did on Massa and so he goes wide to avoid the crash.
To suggest that you can just turn in on a car is ludicrious. If someone has the apex you have to avoid them, it's not Hamilton who created the crash it's Massa. He turned his car into him!
The Maldonado incident is similar, they're side by side coming into turn one. Then Maldanado turns in early and runs into him.
But Hamilton was actually lucky to finish the race. Both Massa and Maldando ended up with 0 points so clearly they got a much worse penalty than he did. In the end it was pretty fair so I don't know what he's moaning about really. He should consider himself lucky to get what he did get.
And talking of lucky.... Sebastien Vettel. This guy is fast enough without getting the rub of the green too! It's looking virtual impossible for anyone else to win this year; especially considering there's no clear rival.
Exciting race though, looking forward to the next!
|
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
The same quality of information that had Brundle and DC ponder over whether DRS is allowed on SC restart?
And the same one where they mistakenly said that the car has to be ready 3 minutes before start when it is just that it has to have tires on at that time?
The BBC F1 team is about as bad as the Speed F1 team. And that is saying a lot.
I don't think Massa sees Hamilton at all. He's too busy looking at the car in front of him.
It doesn't matter if he did or not. Hamilton should have backed off because there was no way Massa could have made the turn if he hadn't. No one in their right mind is arguing over the Massa incident (well except Hamilton and we know how his mind is). The biggest argument is over the Williams one and the lack of a substantial penalty.
Not to mention Hamilton's whiny attempt to claim racism. Something which he has no apologized for. If he wasn't the FIA darling he would be given a DSQ for bringing the sport into disrepute.
|
Quick question: Just started watching F1 today, are there going to be more races tomorrow or was this like the final?
|
Germany1287 Posts
On May 30 2011 06:03 Fruscainte wrote:
Quick question: Just started watching F1 today, are there going to be more races tomorrow or was this like the final?
Hello, welcome to the wonderful world of Formula 1.
The F1 season consists of a certain amount of race weekends throughout the year.
Each weekend consists of 3 practice sessions, a Qualifying session, and a race which targets at 300-310 km distance (about 90-120 minutes). The first 6 races of this year's season are done and the next race will take place in 2 weeks in Canada (on a frikkin great track, i might add).
Over the decades, the rules of F1 evolved into something quite difficult, yes fascinating, starting from point rankings, over race rules and to the technical aspect. Seeing you originate from the US, you might be familiar with NASCAR or ChampCars, but F1 is different in many ways. I suggest you read up on it on Wikipedia about the whole circuit and you will get to know why it generally is considered to be the world's top #1 racing series. Have fun
|
On May 30 2011 06:10 zere wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 06:03 Fruscainte wrote:
Quick question: Just started watching F1 today, are there going to be more races tomorrow or was this like the final? Hello, welcome to the wonderful world of Formula 1. The F1 season consists of a certain amount of race weekends throughout the year. Each weekend consists of 3 practice sessions, a Qualifying session, and a race which targets at 300-310 km distance (about 90-120 minutes). The first 6 races of this year's season are done and the next race will take place in 2 weeks in Canada (on a frikkin great track, i might add). Over the decades, the rules of F1 evolved into something quite difficult, yes fascinating, starting from point rankings, over race rules and to the technical aspect. Seeing you originate from the US, you might be familiar with NASCAR or ChampCars, but F1 is different in many ways. I suggest you read up on it on Wikipedia about the whole circuit and you will get to know why it generally is considered to be the world's top #1 racing series. Have fun
Ah yes, I am quite familiar with Turnleft...er....Nascar.
Not going to lie, that post took me back a second. I was not expecting so much information!
Thanks for all of that, I suppose that makes good sense. I'll definitely go check it out. From what I saw today though, it definitely appears to be a really interesting race with all the crashing, overcoming, and a god damn Mercedes as the safety car (which I am still laughing at, that's freaking great)
The tracks, if anything like the one I saw today are really interesting. People are taking those turns at 200+ mph? That's insane.
EDIT: And these things happen all year every couple of weeks? Damn, I got something to watch between Hockey/Football at last.
|
On May 30 2011 05:54 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
The same quality of information that had Brundle and DC ponder over whether DRS is allowed on SC restart?
I agree. Brundle and Coulthard have bumbled their way through a couple of casts this year. I don't know whether it's a lack of professionalism this year or that because Brundle now has to main cast he can't sit back and analyse the race like the used to. Whatever it is, it's not working.
On May 30 2011 05:54 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +I don't think Massa sees Hamilton at all. He's too busy looking at the car in front of him.
It doesn't matter if he did or not. Hamilton should have backed off because there was no way Massa could have made the turn if he hadn't. No one in their right mind is arguing over the Massa incident (well except Hamilton and we know how his mind is). The biggest argument is over the Williams one and the lack of a substantial penalty. Not to mention Hamilton's whiny attempt to claim racism. Something which he has no apologized for. If he wasn't the FIA darling he would be given a DSQ for bringing the sport into disrepute.
Massa could have got out the way. Hamilton was right against the wall.
F1 has been around for years and years and good overtakers have always made moves like that. Go watch Senna or Mansell or Prost or even Schumacher, they would all do moves like that; forcing the other driver to yield or else crash into them. Senna had some nasty crashes too when the other driver didn't move.
Ok so the rules have changed but really for the worse. I agree with Hamilton; everyone wants to see racing and yet they penalise overtaking.
As for the "FIA darling" comment. Hamilton has taken huge hits by the FIA in the past (as has Alonso). Their aggressive style keeps getting them in to trouble but it's unjustified in my opinion.
I expect Hamilton to get a penalty for his comments too, which will also be unjustied. He should be allowed to speak freely.
|
On May 30 2011 06:15 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 06:10 zere wrote:On May 30 2011 06:03 Fruscainte wrote:
Quick question: Just started watching F1 today, are there going to be more races tomorrow or was this like the final? Hello, welcome to the wonderful world of Formula 1. The F1 season consists of a certain amount of race weekends throughout the year. Each weekend consists of 3 practice sessions, a Qualifying session, and a race which targets at 300-310 km distance (about 90-120 minutes). The first 6 races of this year's season are done and the next race will take place in 2 weeks in Canada (on a frikkin great track, i might add). Over the decades, the rules of F1 evolved into something quite difficult, yes fascinating, starting from point rankings, over race rules and to the technical aspect. Seeing you originate from the US, you might be familiar with NASCAR or ChampCars, but F1 is different in many ways. I suggest you read up on it on Wikipedia about the whole circuit and you will get to know why it generally is considered to be the world's top #1 racing series. Have fun Ah yes, I am quite familiar with Turnleft...er....Nascar. Not going to lie, that post took me back a second. I was not expecting so much information! Thanks for all of that, I suppose that makes good sense. I'll definitely go check it out. From what I saw today though, it definitely appears to be a really interesting race with all the crashing, overcoming, and a god damn Mercedes as the safety car (which I am still laughing at, that's freaking great) The tracks, if anything like the one I saw today are really interesting. People are taking those turns at 200+ mph? That's insane. EDIT: And these things happen all year every couple of weeks? Damn, I got something to watch between Hockey/Football at last.
They take place over like half a year pretty much.
if you go to http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/default.stm you can pretty much see the whole race schedule.
|
Germany1287 Posts
This weekends track is a special one, the Monaco Grand Prix in Monte Carlo is a street circuit like none other (well, Macau's Guia Circuit maybe, but that's not an F1 track), and actually the slowest of them all.
Many tracks of the F1 are well-known tracks all around the world, each with big traditions. Legends arose, won, crashed and died on these tracks. Hit Youtube and you can see how they go with 200mph through Silverstone's Becketts, the Eau Rouge (it's just frikkin insane), or Sao Paolo's mountainous layout. These insane speeds are achieved through unbelievable downforce and grip that no other racecar achieves. It all comes down to price and money involved. Whereas you can buy and build up a whole Champcar for 50.000 bucks, an F1 gearbox alone costs that much. Annual budgets of hundreds of millions are the norm for the top teams, and with the money and dedication comes the prestige
|
On May 30 2011 06:29 zere wrote:This weekends track is a special one, the Monaco Grand Prix in Monte Carlo is a street circuit like none other (well, Macau's Guia Circuit maybe, but that's not an F1 track), and actually the slowest of them all. Many tracks of the F1 are well-known tracks all around the world, each with big traditions. Legends arose, won, crashed and died on these tracks. Hit Youtube and you can see how they go with 200mph through Silverstone's Becketts, the Eau Rouge (it's just frikkin insane), or Sao Paolo's mountainous layout. These insane speeds are achieved through unbelievable downforce and grip that no other racecar achieves. It all comes down to price and money involved. Whereas you can buy and build up a whole Champcar for 50.000 bucks, an F1 gearbox alone costs that much. Annual budgets of hundreds of millions are the norm for the top teams, and with the money and dedication comes the prestige
Haha, all I know is that this Hamil guy is totally out of whack and just took people out faster than Mike Tyson in a kindergarten brawl.
|
Feel really sorry for hamilton this season so far and last season he has had so much bad luck. Hopefully he can turn it around in canada where he won last year.
|
On May 30 2011 06:49 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 06:29 zere wrote:This weekends track is a special one, the Monaco Grand Prix in Monte Carlo is a street circuit like none other (well, Macau's Guia Circuit maybe, but that's not an F1 track), and actually the slowest of them all. Many tracks of the F1 are well-known tracks all around the world, each with big traditions. Legends arose, won, crashed and died on these tracks. Hit Youtube and you can see how they go with 200mph through Silverstone's Becketts, the Eau Rouge (it's just frikkin insane), or Sao Paolo's mountainous layout. These insane speeds are achieved through unbelievable downforce and grip that no other racecar achieves. It all comes down to price and money involved. Whereas you can buy and build up a whole Champcar for 50.000 bucks, an F1 gearbox alone costs that much. Annual budgets of hundreds of millions are the norm for the top teams, and with the money and dedication comes the prestige Haha, all I know is that this Hamil guy is totally out of whack and just took people out faster than Mike Tyson in a kindergarten brawl.
Nah, keep watching and you will see his brilliance. Next race is HIS track, was just a rough weekend for him for various reasons. If your interested in F1 though, might i recommend watching the Senna documentary, it will blow your mind.
|
On May 30 2011 03:02 vdale wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2011 01:25 bmml wrote:On May 30 2011 00:42 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:39 NikonTC wrote:On May 30 2011 00:38 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:31 NikonTC wrote:On May 30 2011 00:29 RmpL wrote:On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote:
How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.> lolwhat? staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ? His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to. Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too. You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong. But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps. No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it. If he and the team didn't think that they could stay first until the end, they would have changed the tires much earlier.
Or they could hold on to their p1 and try and drive insanely defensively for the rest of the race, from testing it was p much apparent that the soft tyres become incredibly bad around the 45th lap, iirc it was lap 16 when Vettel put em on (and I'm 100% sure his team wouldn't have put him on softs for the rest of the race at lap 16) meaning lap 58 when the crash occured (iirc) meaning he had maybe 5-10 more laps at race pace max. If the drop is as big as people make it out to be, Vettel would not have been able to hold his p1 from the far faster 2 behind him. You're being obtuse if you think he would've held them off without a newer set of super softs. F1 although based a large amount of driver skill, at some points comes down to sheer maths, and the times that Vettel would've posted after the drop wouldn't have been enough to keep off a blistering Alonso.
|
Not to mention he had qualifying handed to him on a plate.
I think it's likely he would've held on to first place though. Perelli did say they expected 1 stoppers to be a possibility this race.
The real shame is that Jenson didn't do the same. If he had put Prime tyres on after his first stop he wins the race.
|
On May 30 2011 07:29 Klive5ive wrote:
Not to mention he had qualifying handed to him on a plate.
I think it's likely he would've held on to first place though. Perelli did say they expected 1 stoppers to be a possibility this race.
The real shame is that Jenson didn't do the same. If he had put Prime tyres on after his first stop he wins the race.
1 stoppers wouldve been a possibility sure but when a team plans for 2 stop you can't magically make your tyres better. Qualifying was a depressing thing to watch indeed though.
|
Button got screwed over royally and Vettel had one hell of a lucky day, Button was a lot more good humoured about the whole thing with him at the end than I would have been lol.
Entertaining race though, just a shame it had to end with a restart from the safety car, those last few laps were set to be epic.
I laughed pretty hard at the Hamilton-Massa incident in the tunnel, camera cuts to Massa's car and it's all fucked up and we all instantly know that Hamilton screwed him over in some way lol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
