On May 31 2011 00:35 Aristodemus wrote: You go on to say Alonso is the best, Lewis beat Alonso as his team-mate in his rookie year.
They both had the same amount of points if I remember correctly, so you can't really judge from that. I picked Alonso because of his consistency and because he has two championships, but like I said, I'm not really sure about it. I feel like Vettel is the fastest driver and Alonso is the one who makes the fewest mistakes while being good in every aspect of the race.
On May 31 2011 00:05 zere wrote: I'm realizing what kind of massive cocks some of you are and how dangerous you would be on a public road. + Show Spoiler +
How could anyone even consider sympathizing with Hamilton in this situation?
You just don't do something like that when you are racing in Monaco...
How can you not see this. Picture 1 = Massa on the racing line, Hamilton inside him. Picture 2 = Massa turning into Hamilton leaving him no room? What you're saying is that in picture 1 Hamilton should not be there at all. He is not allowed to take that line because Massa is in front of him?! That's not racing it's a procession.
Look at this pass by Jean Alesi. He comes from even further back than Hamilton but the guy yields.
Now I know Massa had cars in front of him that's why it was complicated and I wouldn't blame Massa either. But to say Hamilton in a clearly faster car must NOT be where he is on picture1 is to suggest that racing is no longer allowed. It wasn't clever because they collided but it's both drivers fault and shouldn't be penalised.
On May 31 2011 00:35 Aristodemus wrote: You go on to say Alonso is the best, Lewis beat Alonso as his team-mate in his rookie year.
They both had the same amount of points if I remember correctly, so you can't really judge from that. I picked Alonso because of his consistency and because he has two championships, but like I said, I'm not really sure about it. I feel like Vettel is the fastest driver and Alonso is the one who makes the fewest mistakes while being good in every aspect of the race.
Lewis finished above Alonso in the champonship, that is beating him. He was also a mile ahead with two races left but suffered from a bad team mistake in china where he was told to stay out until his tyres were down to the canvas, and a broken gearbox in brazil. As for Vettel being the fastest, how highly do you rate Webber then? Because Vettel only just beat him last year and in fact only surpassed him on the last race. Often he has been outclassed by Webber last year, and Webber struggled to beat Heidfeld. If you read my post a few pages back i said that Hamilton and Alonso are too close to call but they are both superior to Vettel. If Vettel ever signs for one of the two top teams you will see his true speed.
vettel was very unlucky last year and also made a lot of rookie mistakes. the last races in 2010 were brilliant and in 2011 he hasn´t done any mistake by now, although there was pressure. He is becoming a great driver for sure. Hamilton on the other hand i'm not so sure about anymore. He likes to see himself as the new Senna, but I just don't feel it.
Vettel = fucking imbalanced. The car is also great but that's not the explanation. Webber is beatable as well. Yes, Vettel also had a good portion of luck in Monaco. So what?
On May 31 2011 02:50 duckii wrote: vettel was very unlucky last year and also made a lot of rookie mistakes. the last races in 2010 were brilliant and in 2011 he hasn´t done any mistake by now, although there was pressure. He is becoming a great driver for sure. Hamilton on the other hand i'm not so sure about anymore. He likes to see himself as the new Senna, but I just don't feel it.
Rookie mistakes in his fourth year? lol. He is a big fan of Senna, thats why he uses the helmet.
On May 31 2011 02:50 duckii wrote: vettel was very unlucky last year and also made a lot of rookie mistakes. the last races in 2010 were brilliant and in 2011 he hasn´t done any mistake by now, although there was pressure. He is becoming a great driver for sure. Hamilton on the other hand i'm not so sure about anymore. He likes to see himself as the new Senna, but I just don't feel it.
Rookie mistakes in his fourth year? lol. He is a big fan of Senna, thats why he uses the helmet.
I said they were rookie mistakes, not that he was a rookie last year. Didn't try to defend Vettel there :p But you must admit that he is learning from his mistakes
He has driven well this year, but that Red Bull is an amazing car and Webber is probably only par to Massa. Many people in here are claiming him to be the fastest driver though, when in truth he isnt. Was Button the fastest driver in F1 in 2009 when he won 6 in 7? I fully agree he has improved, drivers often do once they achieve their first championship. If he dominates Webber throughout the entire season and proves that he can fight through the pack when he qualifies lower down the grid, then I will start taking these claims more seriously. Until then, Alonso and Hamilton are top dogs and their wages/teams reflect that. I put my ranking of 1# Hamilton 2# Alonso 3# Kubica 4# Vettel earlier and that is still the case i think. Whether Kubica fully recovers though, we will have to wait and see.
On May 31 2011 00:35 Aristodemus wrote: 3. Previous races include Webber taking out Hamilton even though Lewis left him room (something Maldonado did not). No penalty.
Damn I remember that now. It basically got written off as a "racing incident" at the time. I am happy to admit that I'm a Lewis fan, so there is some bias but seriously, I can sympathise with his feeling that he is being persecuted a bit because that was essentially a carbon copy of Monaco and nothing came of it.
On May 31 2011 06:19 Aristodemus wrote: He has driven well this year, but that Red Bull is an amazing car and Webber is probably only par to Massa. Many people in here are claiming him to be the fastest driver though, when in truth he isnt. Was Button the fastest driver in F1 in 2009 when he won 6 in 7? I fully agree he has improved, drivers often do once they achieve their first championship. If he dominates Webber throughout the entire season and proves that he can fight through the pack when he qualifies lower down the grid, then I will start taking these claims more seriously. Until then, Alonso and Hamilton are top dogs and their wages/teams reflect that. I put my ranking of 1# Hamilton 2# Alonso 3# Kubica 4# Vettel earlier and that is still the case i think. Whether Kubica fully recovers though, we will have to wait and see.
Why do you talk like everything you say is a fact. It's your opinion and it's impossible to argue objectively about it or do you really think that your arguments will change anyone's opinion? I think we can stop now.
On May 31 2011 06:19 Aristodemus wrote: He has driven well this year, but that Red Bull is an amazing car and Webber is probably only par to Massa. Many people in here are claiming him to be the fastest driver though, when in truth he isnt. Was Button the fastest driver in F1 in 2009 when he won 6 in 7? I fully agree he has improved, drivers often do once they achieve their first championship. If he dominates Webber throughout the entire season and proves that he can fight through the pack when he qualifies lower down the grid, then I will start taking these claims more seriously. Until then, Alonso and Hamilton are top dogs and their wages/teams reflect that. I put my ranking of 1# Hamilton 2# Alonso 3# Kubica 4# Vettel earlier and that is still the case i think. Whether Kubica fully recovers though, we will have to wait and see.
Why do you talk like everything you say is a fact. It's your opinion and it's impossible to argue objectively about it or do you really think that your arguments will change anyone's opinion? I think we can stop now.
"No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it"
"Sorry but that's just wrong. There isn't a sudden time were the tires become incredibly bad, they get worse over time" (while the second sentence is right, you misread his quote)
"Vettel is the fastest driver and Alonso is the one who makes the fewest mistakes while being good in every aspect of the race."
Do you understand what hypocrite means?
As for Lachrymose, I agree no two incidents are the same. They were similar however, neither were worthy of a penalty and that is my point.
"What China, Spain and now Monaco have all suggested is that actually on race day the McLaren's pace is at least as good as the Red Bulls, maybe better. What is also apparent is that with all the overtaking now possible (though not at Monaco), pole position per se is not as vital as it was. "
quoting BBCMark Hughes (Includes full analysis of the Monaco decisions by McLaren)
He ended it with these sentiments: "If it ever comes to a stage where I had to pull back and just cruise around, that would not excite me and I probably wouldn't stay around for that. "I am here to race and win. If I have to lose that passion then it blows all racing."
On May 31 2011 00:35 Aristodemus wrote: Some of you people just dont understand how overtaking is done, the "racing line" when overtaking is not the optimal line for speed. It is the inside, the apex, essentially blocking your opponent or making him drive around the outside. If you have it, 9 times out of 10 you have the corner. Drivers realise this and yield or turn in and crash. Which is of more benefit? As for me only thinking Hamilton is the best because I am English, well that is just bullshit. You go on to say Alonso is the best, Lewis beat Alonso as his team-mate in his rookie year. Ofcourse there is opinion in this matter, but to dismiss my views as nationalistic bias is foolish. In regard to the two penalties recieved, like klive points out above, every single race there are incidents with contact. McLaren and more recently Hamilton seem to get treated worse than others. Take these examples:- 1. Kobayashi on Sutil
Overtakes because of it, causes massive damage. No penalty.
2. Many other incidents from monaco too, such as DiResta and Schumacher running into the back of D'Ambrosio and Hamilton breaking diffusers.
3. Previous races include Webber taking out Hamilton even though Lewis left him room (something Maldonado did not). No penalty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynp28-jt8J0 Vettel dropping it trying to overtake Jenson and taking him out. No penalty.
4.As well as hundreds of other incidents every season that do not get punished.
Correct. The "fastest" line is not always the best line when it comes to defending an overtaking maneuver because it leaves you vulnerable to things like late braking on the inside. I'm not justifying Hamilton's move because it seemed a bit impatient, especially with Webber right in front like that, but it seemed like Massa kind of got caught out and chose an in-between line that was neither good for speed nor good for defending strongly.
In any case, it's nice to see some real debate in this thread :D
On May 31 2011 01:38 Fym wrote: Hamilton going to ferrari next season, you heard it here first. PS Adrian Newey = living legend
With Alonso there til '16? I don't think so
Hoping for a good McLaren showing this week to make up for Monaco!
Yeah I'd put money on Hamy never going to Ferrari.... Alonso isn't much older than Lewis and would never be his team mate... so yeah... there is more chance of him going to Red Bull but I can't see him leaving McLaren the way the season is going.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qWP7k.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8AJws.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/u6ph1.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N6GGi.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7hugl.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zPQki.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/br4zS.png)
![[image loading]](http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3530/6a42e56c4c.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8572/hamiltonmonaco2011t1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/hami_mcla_montreal_2011_2.jpg)
