- Gearboxes must now last 5 instead of 4 races. - Return of the 107%-rule - Minimum car weight increased from 620kg to 640kg - Pirelli replaces Bridgestone as tyre supplier - Driver-adjustable rear wing introduced (up to 15 km/h more top speed) - Maximum diffuser height cut from 175mm to 125mm - Double exhaust-blown diffusers are banned - F-Duct systems are banned - Aerodynamic wheel spokes are banned - Flexible front splitters are banned - Aerodynamic channels running through the car's noses are banned - KERS is allowed again - Curfew on the circuit from midnight to 6am in order to not strain the mechanics too much - General stricter FIA driving standards apply (aggressive driving)
Sebastian Vettel 30% Lewis Hamilton 18% Fernando Alonso 17% Michael Schumacher 14% Other driver 8% Mark Webber 7% Jenson Button 3% Nico Rosberg 2% Felipe Massa 0%
February 7th-10th - Testing in Jerez - February 21st-24th - Testing in Barcelona - March 1st-4th - Testing in Barcelona - March 18th - GP of Australia, Melbourne --- March 25th - GP of Malaysia, Sepang --- --- --- April 15th - GP of China, Shanghai --- April 22nd - GP of Bahrain, Manama --- May 1st-3rd - Testing in Mugello --- May 13th - GP of Spain, Barcelona --- --- May 27th - GP of Monaco, Monte Carlo --- --- June 10th - GP of Canada, Montreal --- --- June 24th - GP of Europe, Valencia, Spain --- --- July 8th - GP of Great Britain, Silverstone --- --- July 22nd - GP of Germany, Hockenheim --- July 29th - GP of Hungary, Budapest --- --- --- --- --- September 2nd - GP of Belgium, Spa-Francorchamps --- September 9th - GP of Italy, Monza --- --- September 23rd - GP of Singapore, Singapore --- --- October 7th - GP of Japan, Suzuka --- October 14th - GP of South Korea, Yeongam --- --- October 28th, GP of India, Noida --- November 4th, GP of Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi --- --- November 18th, GP of United States of America, Austin --- November 25th, GP of Brazil, Sao Paolo
Career Highlights: 2005: 5th F3 Euroseries 2006: 2nd F3 Euroseries 2008: 8th Formula 1 2009: 2nd Formula 1 2010: Formula 1 World Champion Youngest driver ever to lead a Grand Prix Youngest driver ever to start from pole position Youngest driver ever to score a championship point Youngest driver ever to finish on the podium Youngest driver ever to win a Grand Prix Youngest driver ever to win the world championship 62 Grand Prix starts, 10 wins
Career Highlights: 2005: 5th F3 Euroseries 2006: 2nd F3 Euroseries 2008: 8th Formula 1 2009: 2nd Formula 1 2010: Formula 1 World Champion 62 Grand Prix starts, 10 wins
Career Highlights: 1997: 4th British F3 Championship 1998: 2nd FIA GT World championship 2000: 3rd International F3000 2001: 2nd International F3000 2002: 16th Formula 1 2003: 10th Formula 1 2004: 13th Formula 1 2005: 10th Formula 1 2006: 14th Formula 1 2007: 12th Formula 1 2008: 11th Formula 1 2009: 4th Formula 1 2010: 3rd Formula 1 157 Grand Prix starts, 6 wins
Career Highlights: 2004: 5th F3 Euroseries 2005: F3 Euroseries champion 2006: GP2 Champion 2007: 2nd Formula 1 2008: Formula 1 World Champion 2009: 5th Formula 1 2010: 4th Formula 1 71 Grand Prix starts, 14 wins
Career Highlights: 1999: 3rd British F3 2000: 8th Formula 1 2001: 17th Formula 1 2002: 7th Formula 1 2003: 9th Formula 1 2004: 3rd Formula 1 2005: 9th Formula 1 2006: 6th Formula 1 2007: 15th Formula 1 2008: 18th Formula 1 2009: Formula 1 World Champion 2010: 5th Formula 1 189 Grand Prix starts, 9 wins
Career Highlights: 2000: 4th International F3000 2001: 23rd Formula 1 2003: 6th Formula 1 2004: 4th Formula 1 2005: Formula 1 World Champion 2006: Formula 1 World Champion 2007: 3rd Formula 1 2008: 5th Formula 1 2009: 9th Formula 1 2010: 2nd Formula 1 158 Grand Prix starts, 26 wins
Career Highlights: 2001: International F3000 Champion 2002: 13th Formula 1 2004: 12th Formula 1 2005: 13th Formula 1 2006: 3rd Formula 1 2007: 4th Formula 1 2008: 2nd Formula 1 2009: 11th Formula 1 2010: 6th Formula 1 133 Grand Prix starts, 11 wins
Career Highlights: 1989: 3rd German F3 1990: German F3 Champion 1991: 14th Formula 1 1992: 3rd Formula 1 1993: 4th Formula 1 1994: Formula 1 World Champion 1995: Formula 1 World Champion 1996: 3rd Formula 1 1998: 2nd Formula 1 1999: 5th Formula 1 2000: Formula 1 World Champion 2001: Formula 1 World Champion 2002: Formula 1 World Champion 2003: Formula 1 World Champion 2004: Formula 1 World Champion 2005: 3rd Formula 1 2006: 2nd Formula 1 2010: 9th Formula 1 268 Grand Prix starts, 91 wins
Career Highlights: 2003: 8th F3 Euroseries 2004: 4th F3 Euroseries 2005: GP2 Champion 2006: 17th Formula 1 2007: 9th Formula 1 2008: 13th Formula 1 2009: 7th Formula 1 2010: 7th Formula 1 90 Grand Prix starts, 0 wins
Career Highlights: 1996: 3rd German F3 1997: German F3 Champion 1998: 2nd International F3000 1999: International F3000 Champion 2000: 20th Formula 1 2001: 8th Formula 1 2002: 10th Formula 1 2003: 14th Formula 1 2004: 18th Formula 1 2005: 11th Formula 1 2006: 9th Formula 1 2007: 5th Formula 1 2008: 6th Formula 1 2009: 13th Formula 1 2010: 18th Formula 1 172 Grand Prix starts, 0 wins
Career Highlights: 1991: British F3 Champion 1992: 3rd International F3000 1993: 18th Formula 1 1994: 6th Formula 1 1995: 11th Formula 1 1996: 8th Formula 1 1997: 13th Formula 1 1998: 12th Formula 1 1999: 7th Formula 1 2000: 4th Formula 1 2001: 3rd Formula 1 2002: 2nd Formula 1 2003: 4th Formula 1 2004: 2nd Formula 1 2005: 8th Formula 1 2006: 7th Formula 1 2007: 20th Formula 1 2008: 14th Formula 1 2009: 3rd Formula 1 2010: 10th Formula 1 304 Grand Prix starts, 11 wins
Career Highlights: 2005: 2nd F3 Euroseries 2006: Japanese F3 Champion 2007: 19th Formula 1 2008: 20th Formula 1 2009: 17th Formula 1 2010: 11th Formula 1 71 Grand Prix starts, 0 wins
Career Highlights: 1996: German F3 Champion 1997: 15th Formula 1 1998: 16th Formula 1 1999: 11th Formula 1 2000: 10th Formula 1 2001: 9th Formula 1 2002: 8th Formula 1 2003: 8th Formula 1 2004: 6th Formula 1 2005: 7th Formula 1 2006: 12th Formula 1 2007: 13th Formula 1 2008: 9th Formula 1 2009: 8th Formula 1 2010: 21st Formula 1 234 Grand Prix starts, 1 win
Career Highlights: 2002: 3rd British F3 2003: 2nd Nissan World Series 2004: Nissan World Series Champion 2005: 2nd GP2 2007: 7th Formula 1 2008: 7th Formula 1 2009: 12th Formula 1 2010: 20th Formula 1 70 Grand Prix starts, 1 win
Career Highlights: 1999: 6th British F3 2000: 4th British F3 2002: 9th Nissan World Series 2003: 4th Nissan World Series 2004: 6th Nissan World Series 2005: 18th Formula 1 19 Grand Prix starts, 0 wins
Career Highlights: 2003: 4th International Formula 3000 2004: International Formula 3000 Champion 2005: 24th Formula 1 2006: 19th Formula 1 2007: 18th Formula 1 2009: 22nd Formula 1 2010: 15th Formula 1 63 Grand Prix starts, 0 wins
Career Highlights: 2002: 3rd German F3 2003: 5th F3 Euroseries 2004: 19th Formula 1 2006: 4th GP2 2007: GP2 Champion 2008: 10th Formula 1 2009: 10th Formula 1 2010: 25th Formula 1 54 Grand Prix starts, 0 wins
Times on Day 5 (Rain conditions, only 3 drivers went out onto the track): 1. Rosberg (Mercedes) 1:43:814 2. Maldonado (Williams) 1:44:333 3. Hamilton (McLaren) 1:44:560
Sebastian Vettel 30% Lewis Hamilton 18% Fernando Alonso 17% Michael Schumacher 14% Other driver 8% Mark Webber 7% Jenson Button 3% Nico Rosberg 2% Felipe Massa 0%
1. Vettel (Red Bull) 1:39:03.301 (66 laps) 2. Hamilton (McLaren) +0.630 3. Button (McLaren) +35.597 4. Webber (Red Bull) +47.966 5. Alonso (Ferrari) +1 lap 6. Schumacher (Mercedes) +1 lap 7. Rosberg (Mercedes) +1 lap 8. Heidfeld (Renault) +1 lap 9. Perez (Sauber) +1 lap 10. Kobayashi (Sauber) +1 lap 11. Petrov (Renault) +1 lap 12. di Resta (Force India) +1 lap 13. Sutil (Force India) +1 lap 14. Buemi (Toro Rosso) +1 lap 15. Maldonado (Williams) +1 lap 16. Alguersuari (Toro Rosso) +2 laps 17. Barrichello (Williams) +2 laps 18. Trulli (Lotus) +2 laps 19. Glock (Marussia-Virgin) +3 laps 20. D'Ambrosio (Marussia-Virgin) +4 laps 21. Karthikeyan (HRT) +5 laps DNF Massa (Ferrari) +8 laps DNF Kovalainen (Lotus) +18 laps DNF Liuzzi (HRT) +38 laps
2011 Formula 1 Grand Prix de Monaco (Monte Carlo, May 26th-29th) + Show Spoiler +
Wow looks like you put a lot of work into this, well done looks really great. I don't like how they banned the Aerodynamic channels running through the car's noses =/
I hope Massa does well this season. It really wasn't his year last year. Michael Schumacher showed signs at the end of last year that he was returning to top form, driving very well with a shoddy car, but I doubt he will win the whole championship.
I love F1. Still hoping for a Schumacher come back... I'm suprised at Alonso making 30mil, it's insane.
One question, how big of an impact will the new regulations be? I personally dislike that system they are adding again (KERS). I dislike they are making the cars slower for the sake of safety (Im so bad).
On February 21 2011 07:13 GreEny K wrote:I don't like how they banned the Aerodynamic channels running through the car's noses =/
I'm not sure, maybe for structural rigidity? The front splitter must not be flexible anymore so maybe that's why. Tho I have no idea if that would actually do such a big difference...
On February 21 2011 07:20 Skillz_Man wrote: One question, how big of an impact will the new regulations be? I personally dislike that system they are adding again (KERS).
Unpredictable until the first race. However, teams said the Pirelli tyres are going down the drain much more quickly than the Bridgestone, so we might see lots of pitstops. KERS is optional, I haven't read too much into it. I'm not even sure whether there are teams that are using it.
I want to see one of the smaller teams do well. Will cheer for Force India and Paul di Resta, I hope he doesn't act like a doubebag (Hamilton/Alonso) and his car isn't a total dog.
Seems like some people think that Schumacher will be the champion, seriously doubt that he'll ever win the title again, but gj if he does, I'd say that either Vettel or Alonso will take it this season, Webber might actually manage to grab it aswell.
On February 21 2011 07:13 GreEny K wrote:I don't like how they banned the Aerodynamic channels running through the car's noses =/
I'm not sure, maybe for structural rigidity? The front splitter must not be flexible anymore so maybe that's why. Tho I have no idea if that would actually do such a big difference...
On February 21 2011 07:20 Skillz_Man wrote: One question, how big of an impact will the new regulations be? I personally dislike that system they are adding again (KERS).
Unpredictable until the first race. However, teams said the Pirelli tyres are going down the drain much more quickly than the Bridgestone, so we might see lots of pitstops. KERS is optional, I haven't read too much into it. I'm not even sure whether there are teams that are using it.
First off, I guess at that kind of speed the smallest difference would matter so maybe that's why... Secondly, What is the KERS system?
On February 22 2011 00:27 Noam wrote: Are there any news about the Bahrain race? Are any important persons from the community voicing their opinions on holding it or not?
Last I heard about it, they will not be holding the race.
On February 21 2011 07:13 GreEny K wrote:I don't like how they banned the Aerodynamic channels running through the car's noses =/
I'm not sure, maybe for structural rigidity? The front splitter must not be flexible anymore so maybe that's why. Tho I have no idea if that would actually do such a big difference...
On February 21 2011 07:20 Skillz_Man wrote: One question, how big of an impact will the new regulations be? I personally dislike that system they are adding again (KERS).
Unpredictable until the first race. However, teams said the Pirelli tyres are going down the drain much more quickly than the Bridgestone, so we might see lots of pitstops. KERS is optional, I haven't read too much into it. I'm not even sure whether there are teams that are using it.
First off, I guess at that kind of speed the smallest difference would matter so maybe that's why... Secondly, What is the KERS system?
I'm not exactly what it stands for, but I know what it does. When the car brakes there is excess energy that is just being thrown away, so the car harnesses and stores this energy. On a straight it gets an extra 80hp~ boost when they activate it. Now they had this system 2 years back or so. And some teams chose to some did not. It was very heavy and still somewhat unreliable. They decided to ban it at that point.
Now I found it pretty stupid. I remember the Ferraris had it, and McLaren didn't. So passing in turns is pretty hard to do I some tracks so you take advantage of the straights. So when Hamilton was behind Massa he could never make the pass, because on the straight Massa had that boost to pull ahead and Hamilton didn't. Then on the turns Hamilton was almost touching Massa but couldn't pass. Rinse and repeat. Might change if everyone has it I suppose.
On February 22 2011 00:27 Noam wrote: Are there any news about the Bahrain race? Are any important persons from the community voicing their opinions on holding it or not?
Last news were that Ecclestone lets the Prince of Bahrain make the final decision whether to have the race or not. Most teams say that they don't want to have the race, because it could even delay logistics for the upcoming races if cargo would be put on hold in Bahrain or something. If the testing in Bahrain (March 3-6th) will be canceled, then most likely all teams will agree to also not race on 11-13th. The GP2 Asia races from last weekend were already canceled, too, of course, so it's not looking good
On February 21 2011 07:13 GreEny K wrote:I don't like how they banned the Aerodynamic channels running through the car's noses =/
I'm not sure, maybe for structural rigidity? The front splitter must not be flexible anymore so maybe that's why. Tho I have no idea if that would actually do such a big difference...
On February 21 2011 07:20 Skillz_Man wrote: One question, how big of an impact will the new regulations be? I personally dislike that system they are adding again (KERS).
Unpredictable until the first race. However, teams said the Pirelli tyres are going down the drain much more quickly than the Bridgestone, so we might see lots of pitstops. KERS is optional, I haven't read too much into it. I'm not even sure whether there are teams that are using it.
First off, I guess at that kind of speed the smallest difference would matter so maybe that's why... Secondly, What is the KERS system?
I'm not exactly what it stands for, but I know what it does. When the car brakes there is excess energy that is just being thrown away, so the car harnesses and stores this energy. On a straight it gets an extra 80hp~ boost when they activate it. Now they had this system 2 years back or so. And some teams chose to some did not. It was very heavy and still somewhat unreliable. They decided to ban it at that point.
Now I found it pretty stupid. I remember the Ferraris had it, and McLaren didn't. So passing in turns is pretty hard to do I some tracks so you take advantage of the straights. So when Hamilton was behind Massa he could never make the pass, because on the straight Massa had that boost to pull ahead and Hamilton didn't. Then on the turns Hamilton was almost touching Massa but couldn't pass. Rinse and repeat. Might change if everyone has it I suppose.
Oh wow, sounds like a good idea but I see where it can be troublesome. As you said, it is heavy. So is the extra hp worth the weight?
Updated OP with today's times, Massa did 121 laps today and set the fastest time of the weekend.
I read up on KERS a bit and it looks like every team is using it, apart from Lotus, Virgin and HRT (poor guys). It provides 60 kW on activation, and a maximum of 400 kJ per lap, which means 400 divided by 60 = roughly 6,7 seconds per lap, and it is 10kg lighter than the old KERSsystems from 2009 (apparantly Mercedes has a system that weighs only 23kg). The cars need to weigh 640kg minimum (+20 compared to 2010), so that encourages to use it.
There is also more to the adjustable rear wing rule, but it's really complicated and I wouldn't be surprised if we would see some penalties for adjusting the wing on the wrong zones of the track. Stupid idea, really
- Driver-adjustable rear wing introduced (up to 15 km/h more top speed)
From what I understood rear wing can only be adjusted to overtake, when no further than a second behind the position you want to take. This should be really interesting.
I think either Alonso of Hamilton will take it this year (unless Ferrari underperforms again).
KERS stands for kinetic energy recovery system, which basically utulizes the energy (through heat) created whilst braking. McLaren had the best system in 2009 andi expect that to be the same this year,however Williams created their own company for KERS on road cars/buses and maybe they have made progress. As for the F-duct being banned, this was down to safety, most teams at the end of the season were using it with their hands, tie that in with the fact they adjust brake bias too on the straights. VERY dangerous. This years rookies i am a little disappointed with, Hulkenberg lost his place at Williams due to Maldonado (who i think will be the best rookie) bringing Venezualan oil money. Force India then decided to put Di Resta in the car instead of the Hulk The other two have done little to deserve their drives. I predict Hamilton to win the title, and for a dark horse i will go for Rosberg. I would have picked Kubica for this but he will miss the season. Get well soon Robert!
Hope it will be a good year like last year. Would be good to see Mercedes up there with Mclaren, Ferarri and Red Bull too. The Renault looks fast as well so hopefully there will be a close field this year.
On February 22 2011 10:37 fbs wrote: well Bahrain REALLY sucked last year, I think a lot of people were put off for the entire season because of that race, I'm kind of glad it's not on
Yeah, Bahrain last year was very disappointing, but I still would rather have had another race rather than more weeks of testing and speculation.
and at comments about bahrain being a bad race... thats not just a bahrain thing. its a first race of the year thing. australia is gonna be very dicey i think
i still think that 107% of the lead time is too lenient for that new qualifying rule though
On February 21 2011 07:40 RmpL wrote: I like some of the new changes like the rear wing thing, so it depends more on the driver and his skills.
And I hope Schumacher gets a kickass car this time so he can show the young guys how its done
I think its not his car that's causing him to not perform up to expectations. Back in his early days, Ferrari was one of the worst teams in F1 and Schumacher joined Ferrari. He is known to be legendary because he won grand prix and championships with one of the most under-performing cars in F1 at that time. It was him who brought up Ferrari to such a successful team as what we have seen today. So he could probably still do well even when the car isn't a powerhouse, I guess its probably his age affecting him the most.
Nice OP. Really excited again for the season to start, but now the wait will be 2 more weeks. So far it seems that Ferrari and Red Bull have done the best job but you have to wait for the first race to really see the pecking order. I hope Mercedes can step up. Would really like to see the old man win a race again
in my eyes, its just a case of "i'm bored, i wonder if any teams need someone to drive their car...."
he's getting old, he won't return to his prime
honestly, if anything, i think he coulda done the world of F1 a ton of good by heading up the 'past drivers to help the stewards' thing, and help bring some driver perspective into some of the decisions of the governing bodies
i mean, who else would they listen to that would represent the drivers better than the schu lol
It appears that the fastest teams based on pre season testing so far, which is of course, never 100% accurate, is that Red Bull have the fastest car with Ferrari and surprisingly Mercedes close behind them. McLaren seem to be having all sorts of problems with their new car, and seem to be waaay off the pace. But McLaren have a funny knack of doing this, and catching up the rest of the season to be contenders. Makes you wonder why they make it so hard on themselves!?
Other teams that look competitive are Renault and Sauber. Lotus defintely have made the most progress from last year, and many say they are moving up the pack fighting with Force India.
I gotta say I cannot wait for this year to start. I really hope we see the real Schumacher back this year fighting at the top again, and it will be great with Hamilton, Vettel and Alonsa all in contention. I also think Rosberg could be a real threat this year if Mercedes have a real competitive car, as that guy has alot of talent.
Times on Day 5 (Rain conditions, only 3 drivers went out onto the track): 1. Rosberg (Mercedes) 1:43:814 2. Maldonado (Williams) 1:44:333 3. Hamilton (McLaren) 1:44:560
updating few things here and there
Latest buzz: -HRT: "Our 2011 car is 95% new." On a related note, HRT wasn't able to test on Saturday because their shock absorbers were stuck in customs -Trulli: "2010 and 2011 Lotus is a difference like day and night" -Lotus: "This season, we are in the midfield" -Alonso: "We are 100% ready" -Red Bull: "Performance-wise, we are in the best condition ever" -All drivers mourn about the missing opportunity to test the new Pirelli raintyres. How come only 3 went onto the track on Saturday? -Along with about 50 key personnel, Vettel signs new contract with Red Bull until end of 2014 -Kubica done with his 4th surgery, soon to go into rehab -BBC reconsiders F1 broadcasting deal. Current contract runs out at the end of 2013, costing 40.000.000£ per year
On March 14 2011 21:46 zere wrote: -All drivers mourn about the missing opportunity to test the new Pirelli raintyres. How come only 3 went onto the track on Saturday?
Because the rain that they had was monsoon style. It was pretty much undriveable.
On March 15 2011 04:44 bmml wrote: :O need more news!
Of course!
-Eric Bouiller (Renault): "Our main opponents are Red Bull and Ferrari. We might compete for Grand prix wins" -Lotus: "Unlikely for us to ever use KERS in the whole of 2011" -Williams confirmed they will use KERS in Melbourne (they had problems with it and were considering to drop it) -Barrichello: "I want to get into Q3 and score points in Melbourne" -Sutil: "Pirelli's tyres are so bad that 3- or 4-stop strategies will be common sight in 2011" -Frank Williams: "Who do I want to see in my car? Lewis, he's just better than all the others" -Sadie Wigglesworth transfers from Aston Martin to Force India, she will be "Head of Sponsorship, Acquisition & Media". Force India succesfully gathering a larger fanbase?
I dont think the BBC will cut F1, it has been way more successful than they imagined. To put that annual £40m in perspective, wimbledon costs more and has much lower viewers (except for the men's final).
Yeah I would be extremely suprised if they cut F1, as they finally got it back off ITV several years ago, and have done an absolulte brilliant job. They get huge viewings. Also with all the technological social advances in the past few years, F1 has become alot more indepth thanks to sites like BBC who do some excellent coverage.
It certainly will be interesting to hear how Brundle and DC get on in the commentary box. For all the stick Legard got, I will miss him. He always tried to take over Murry Walkers role. He brought some excitement to it. Wether he succeeded is another matter. I just hope Brundle and DC do not go overboard with technicalities and keep up some excitement when events happen.
On February 22 2011 01:59 Aristodemus wrote: As for the F-duct being banned, this was down to safety, most teams at the end of the season were using it with their hands, tie that in with the fact they adjust brake bias too on the straights. VERY dangerous.
I don't agree that they banned it for safety reasons. Christian Horner said that because he had a vested interest in seeing it banned. The F-Duct increased top end speed for the teams that used it and top speed was the Red Bull's only weakness. If they were that concerned about distracted drivers, they wouldn't have added two new systems that require driver input (KERS and moveable rear wing).
The real reason it was banned was because several teams couldn't make it work and didn't want to foot the expense to get it working properly. F1 has technological resets like this all the time. Red Bull got the F-Duct banned and McLaren got the flexible front wing banned. Teams are constantly jockeying for changes in the rules that benefit their car. I think that's part of what makes F1 interesting.
On February 22 2011 01:59 Aristodemus wrote: As for the F-duct being banned, this was down to safety, most teams at the end of the season were using it with their hands, tie that in with the fact they adjust brake bias too on the straights. VERY dangerous.
I don't agree that they banned it for safety reasons. Christian Horner said that because he had a vested interest in seeing it banned. The F-Duct increased top end speed for the teams that used it and top speed was the Red Bull's only weakness. If they were that concerned about distracted drivers, they wouldn't have added two new systems that require driver input (KERS and moveable rear wing).
The real reason it was banned was because several teams couldn't make it work and didn't want to foot the expense to get it working properly. F1 has technological resets like this all the time. Red Bull got the F-Duct banned and McLaren got the flexible front wing banned. Teams are constantly jockeying for changes in the rules that benefit their car. I think that's part of what makes F1 interesting.
exactly this; many people forget f1 cars did not always have flappy-paddles and one handed driving was a lot more common
Fisico retired from F1 racing after his time at Ferrari; he is still test driver for them, tho. Also he finished 2nd in his class in last year's Le Mans Series
Got a day off tomorrow so gonna watch the first practice, cant wait, Im hoping that Mercedes, Mclaren, Renault and maybe Sauber can start the season within reach of Ferrari and Red Bull, either way heres to (hopefully) a season as exciting as the last three have been
Right now though I envy our Australian cousins, they can hear the roar in 3 hours
Once again the best OP that I have seen on a thread in a long time that wasnt produced by the site themselves, so well done and thanks to you all
So, what are these times worth? Not that much, but.... I think we can really hold our hopes high for Williams Sauber and Renault to be able to tickle the podium once in a while. di Resta is on par with Sutil. I like. Glock can not put a gap between himself and his new rookie teammate. Virgin and HRT will have a really hard time qualifying - they need progress, and they need it soon, else we will not see them racing in a long time this year. The cars are supposed to be 1 second slower per lap, compared to last year. We are already at 0.8 seconds, and we haven't even seen long stints with degrading Pirellis yet.
The Mclaren is the best looking car for many a season its absolutely beautiful when they show it up close, the Ferrari also looks great with the Italian flag on the rear wing
However, I think that both Ferrari and Red Bull are probably doing what they did last year and sandbagging their real performance for the end of tomorrows qualifying sessions, time will tell of course
Poll: Formula 1 World Champion 2011? 1. Sebastian Vettel (24) 29% 2. Fernando Alonso (17) 20% 3. Lewis Hamilton (15) 18% 4. Michael Schumacher (13) 16% 5. Other driver (6) 7% 6. Mark Webber (5) 6% 7. Nico Rosberg (2) 2% 8. Jenson Button (1) 1% 9. Felipe Massa (0) 0% 83 total votes
If the track temperature stays low for the race I think we're gonna see several tire related accidents. They wont be able to nurse them for a lap coming out of the pits like they did in the qualifiers.
Awesome OP, looked this morning and saw no thread for F1 in here at all and was going to make something, but i'm glad you did because it's amazing! :D
Hope Hamilton does well all season and takes the championship. Red Dull whitewash is pretty boring now. Here's hoping Kubica comes back soon and strong too.
I have not followed the winter test sessions and have not seen qualifier session of tomorrows GP. But my guess either Hamilton (my favo) or Vettel are gonna take the title this season. Next to Hamilton, I'll be rooting for Kobayashi his drives style is like Hamiltons, exciting crazy/risky "all out" style :D but with a bit lesser car.
Red Bull looking pretty dawn fast, they where talking all week about how off the pace Mclaren where looking in testing but they seemed O.K today. Interesting to find out whether Mclaren and Red Bull are fairly even and Vettels lap was special or whether Maybe red bull are a lot faster and Hamiltons lap was special. I'm thinking red Bull have the better car but how much faster is it.
Loving the new flip down wing thing's be interesting to see how that pans out in the racing. I'm not sure how thier keeping track of who can and when they can use them but it sounds like its a lot of work for someone.
All in all hyped. Can't wait for tomorrow
not sure if i can be assed to go to YeoungAm again this year last year was a disater in terms of transport. There must have been people queing way in to the early morning trying to get a bus out of there.
I think the HRT drivers would have barely scraped into 107%, their lap times were coming down progressively. Sector 3 was ridiculously slower than the rest, I'm sure they just needed the practice time to find those seconds.
Though I still wonder why they're using last year's wing package instead of the one shown in the render :|
On March 27 2011 01:08 WArped wrote: Vettel's qualifying was mindblowingly fast. He didn't even use his Kurz apparently.
Because he doesn't have it He was just winding the journalists up saying "I couldn't find the button". According to the BBC they've taken out the charging part of the KERS and are just going to have a one-use system to use off the line. This might effect their race pace. No KERS means you need slightly more fuel and even 1kg will give a noticeable time difference in F1. OR they might just have a much better balance to the car without KERS and Vettel will use his boost to stay in front of Hamilton off the line and then dissapear into the distance. We'll just have to wait and see
One kilo is nowhere near a second a lap, its more like 0.1 or 0.2. As for today, everyone can see what an amazing job mclaren have done, they look in really good shape. Vettel not using KERS is a weakness in terms of power but not so much in terms of performance. Hamilton also did not have KERS for his final session, which was a huge disadvantage (it was broken) as you carry a 20-30kg unit for no reason. It also affects brake balance badly so you can see what a great job he did today. I said earlier in the thread i tip Hamilton for the title, but testing did not go well to say the least. After today however, i am confident in my prediction once again.
Yeah, I'm probably going to say Hamilton takes it all this year as well. I kind of want Webber to win because he is getting up there in years and will probably retire this year or next, but Hamilton should take it if the car performs properly and consistently. Right now, early in the season I'm seeing Hamilton or Vettel taking it, but will be cheering for Webber.
Although I am skeptical of KERS again. Just never seemed reliable enough, which might be the reason Newey developed RBR7 without it, but who knows. Maybe it might be better now. I doubt it, but it is possible.
in case anyone didn't know, drivers are allowed to use DRS anywhere on the track during practice+quali, hence vettel's fast time. you probably won't see that time during the race later today as you can only use DRS on the main straight here.
On March 27 2011 04:26 a176 wrote: in case anyone didn't know, drivers are allowed to use DRS anywhere on the track during practice+quali, hence vettel's fast time. you probably won't see that time during the race later today as you can only use DRS on the main straight here.
Afaik you can only use it to overtake too? not just on any straights.
Thoguh maybe I'm wrong. Should be an interesting race anyway, hopefully nothing like last season's Bahrain.
On March 27 2011 01:08 WArped wrote: Vettel's qualifying was mindblowingly fast. He didn't even use his Kurz apparently.
Because he doesn't have it He was just winding the journalists up saying "I couldn't find the button". According to the BBC they've taken out the charging part of the KERS and are just going to have a one-use system to use off the line. This might effect their race pace. No KERS means you need slightly more fuel and even 1kg will give a noticeable time difference in F1. OR they might just have a much better balance to the car without KERS and Vettel will use his boost to stay in front of Hamilton off the line and then dissapear into the distance. We'll just have to wait and see
Thats a pretty good theory but I can't help but think that the pirelli's will not make it as simple as it was last year to gain a lead then just take care of your wheels. Something that Vettel did pretty darn well last year.
On March 27 2011 04:26 a176 wrote: in case anyone didn't know, drivers are allowed to use DRS anywhere on the track during practice+quali, hence vettel's fast time. you probably won't see that time during the race later today as you can only use DRS on the main straight here.
Afaik you can only use it to overtake too? not just on any straights.
Thoguh maybe I'm wrong. Should be an interesting race anyway, hopefully nothing like last season's Bahrain.
On March 27 2011 01:08 WArped wrote: Vettel's qualifying was mindblowingly fast. He didn't even use his Kurz apparently.
Because he doesn't have it He was just winding the journalists up saying "I couldn't find the button". According to the BBC they've taken out the charging part of the KERS and are just going to have a one-use system to use off the line. This might effect their race pace. No KERS means you need slightly more fuel and even 1kg will give a noticeable time difference in F1. OR they might just have a much better balance to the car without KERS and Vettel will use his boost to stay in front of Hamilton off the line and then dissapear into the distance. We'll just have to wait and see
Thats a pretty good theory but I can't help but think that the pirelli's will not allow make it as simple as it was last year to gain a lead then just take care of your wheels. Something that Vettel did pretty darn well last year.
Solid racing by Vettel, the race was decided when Hamilton started to run into car troubles. Great performance from Petrov in getting and holding onto 3rd place. Also a good performance by Perez in his first race as well.
I forgot about this thread and the lack of live report I think everyone else did too.
I think Hamiltons gonna be disqualified. they said there was a minimum ride hieght of 10mm or something and that piece on the bottom of the car was littreally scraping along the floor for most of the race. Unless enough has fallan off to make it beat that regulation bot not to much to fall victom to any other regulations.
Anyway Red Bulls pace looks scary when you consider they have no kerrs. Vettel and Hamliton coasted home and there wasn't any mind blowing action but an interesting start to the new season. Great job Petrov, Sergio Perez (1 stop WTF) and Kamui Kobayashi.
I think jensen Button was really stupid not letting the Ferrais through yeah it sucks but he had no case at all about been first to the corner or anything like that. He was just stubben and paid a big price for it.
Vettel strikes again. Petrov my personal gosu of the day.
On March 27 2011 16:50 Greg_J wrote: I forgot about this thread and the lack of live report I think everyone else did too.
I think Hamiltons gonna be disqualified. they said there was a minimum ride hieght of 10mm or something and that piece on the bottom of the car was littreally scraping along the floor for most of the race. Unless enough has fallan off to make it beat that regulation bot not to much to fall victom to any other regulations.
I remember in the 90s, Schumacher once won (in Hungary, I think), but during the race he slid over the curbs and demolished his bottom. He was disqualified post-race, so you might be onto something here...
Watching Buttons interview on BBC: 'I was first to the corner so he should have pulled of the throttle, he didn't so i had no where to go' 'Ferrai imediately pitted so there was nothing I could do after that'
I'm not buying it Button stop been so bitter, Ferrai didn't pit just to ruin your race. They pitted because they needed to pit and it was about 5 laps latter you had plenty of time to give baqck the place.
This is why as a Brit I prefer Hamiltion he just seems like a nicer guy. Buttons cool and all but he just gets a bit to bitter and angry.
As someone who isn't exactly a fan of Vettel I predict this may be a long F1 season for me, hopefully Alonso bounces back and provides a challenge, or any non-Mclaren driver really.
I can't hate on Vettel too much (really have no reason to), kinda hoped Alonso would have done better, and towards the end of the race with Alonso 4th and Petrov 3rd, I was in all sorts of emotions, sad cause it was looking to be a replay of last race, at the same time excited cause Petrov was heading to a podium finish !!!! then sad again cause I wondered many times what Kubica would have done in this car (Not to take anything away from Petrov who did amazing! and besides he'd be driving too next to Kubica).
All in all a little bit of a boring race in my opinion with surprising end results (contradict much lol?) Looking forward to Malaysia.
On March 27 2011 16:50 Greg_J wrote: I forgot about this thread and the lack of live report I think everyone else did too.
I think Hamiltons gonna be disqualified. they said there was a minimum ride hieght of 10mm or something and that piece on the bottom of the car was littreally scraping along the floor for most of the race. Unless enough has fallan off to make it beat that regulation bot not to much to fall victom to any other regulations.
Anyway Red Bulls pace looks scary when you consider they have no kerrs. Vettel and Hamliton coasted home and there wasn't any mind blowing action but an interesting start to the new season. Great job Petrov, Sergio Perez (1 stop WTF) and Kamui Kobayashi.
I think jensen Button was really stupid not letting the Ferrais through yeah it sucks but he had no case at all about been first to the corner or anything like that. He was just stubben and paid a big price for it.
Formula One is awesome.
I don't think Hamilton will be disqualified. If your car is damaged they allow you to fix it before testing it. Obvious it's not fair otherwise.
Red Bull made the right decision on KERS again. Horner at the end said that Adrian Neuey simply wouldn't let them put KERS in if it interfered with his aero package and it makes sense. Good downforce and balance is more important than KERS.
Jenson got wrongly frustrated and should have sucked it up and given the place back to Massa. Stubborness cost McClaren it was obviously an illegal move. I fell a bit bad for Jenseo though because he had the pace in his car but couldn't utilise it thanks to the bad start that Hamilton had. If Hamilton doesn't spin off the line Jenson could've used the obvious boost he had to get into third instead of getting stuck behind Webber and blocked out.
Which brings us to the DRS... they were worried it would be too easy to overtake but actually it made almost no difference. You still can't overtake in a much faster car. I know they were unsure about the effect it would have and so played it safe. Now is the time to adjust the regulations fast imho and perhaps allow DRS for the whole of the next lap if you cross the line 1second behind your opponent. Then we might see the turbulent air of the car infront cancelled out a bit more.
Too bad for Sauber but it means points for Force India which makes me happy, just hope that in the next race Force India gets points based on finishing in the top10 rather than someone being disqualified after the race.
Wow. Both Saubers violated articles 3.10.1. and 3.10.2. of the technical rules, it has something to do with the size of the rear wing. It's still unclear why FIA's technical scrutineering didn't make any claims before the race. -> Massa 7th, Buemi 8th, Sutil 9th, di Resta 10th Additionally, Buemi is still under investigation for an overtake maneuver against Sutil, so maybe Alguersari will finish 10th
Edit: Buemi declared not guilty of anything, keeps 8th place
Just finished watching the race on iplayer. Shame for Button as I really think if his team told him to let the ferrari's through immediately he'd have dont better than 6th, but apparently according to Whitmarsh the FIA didn't inform the team of anything then boom investigation, still a shame.
Also to the dude who said they prefer Lewis to Jenson because Jenson is too hot headed? what?! thats like the complete opposite of what I think anyway. Lewis gets super pissed when stuff doesn't go his way, Jenson is obviously dissapointed but anyone would be.
Great race for Petrov and I'll be rooting for him this season in lieu of Kubica, hopefully he'll grow as a driver and when Kubica returns he'll be a really solid team mate, definately grown from last season - super impressive.
Great start to the season, super solid by Seb. Shame about the sketchy drive from Webber, hope he gets better suited to the car as the season goes on. F1 2011 baby, here we go!
Not looking forward to visiting the States this summer, do they even show live F1 there ? no iplayer is T_T.
Well it looks like I was wrong no penalty as yet for Hamilton hopefully he's got away with it. That really sucks for Sauber they did so well. It was me that was talking about Button been to hot headed and I guess you right Bmmi Hamilton has been known to do similar things too, but I don't know Hamilton just seems like a loveable funny guy. He was awesome when he came on top gear just messing around and having fun. Anyway it would be boring if everyone liked the same guy and everyone gets hot temperred in Formula one.
It brings out the worst in everyone sometimes. I remeber jumping up in delight at YeoungAm when Mark Webber crashed on the big screen. I know it was good for Hamilton but I'm efectively cheering a really nice guy crashing and been in mortal danger its a bit off really. Lots of confuesed looking Koreans getting thier first taste of motorsport wondering if they where surpossed to cheer crashes.
Anyway Melbourne wasn't the most exciting race ever but there was loads to look out for. Role on the rest of the season.
I was blown away by the OP, first time seeing it. I missed the first race! I don't have a reliable way to watch F1 since I moved to Canada. I'll just download the torrents for now and hope that the races aren't spoilered for me by the time they're done d/ling!
well, DRS was pretty useless. the cars accelerate so damn fast and the length of the 'enabled' zone is so short that DRS provides no net effect. it needs to be 'enabled' for use on longer stretches of track for sure.
On March 28 2011 10:20 ~ava wrote: I was blown away by the OP, first time seeing it. I missed the first race! I don't have a reliable way to watch F1 since I moved to Canada
All the races are shown on TSN, one of Canada's sports channels. They also replay the race on their other channel TSN2 several hours afterwards
It seems a manufacturing error lead to Saubers disqualification from the Australian GP. New rules this year set a minimum radius for the rear wing elements, these were introduced to prevent slots being added to the wings to allow blown slots and F-duct stalling slots. However in post race scrutineering the Sauber fell foul of the new test, which is to uphold the revised rules; 3.10.1 and 3.10.2. The rear wing flap on both races cars was tested and its upper surface (with the logo “Sauber F1 Team”) was found to be made with too tight a radius.
Senna finally got a UK release date, June 3rd. Been getting rave reviews so I, for one, am looking forward to it!
Watching this trailer makes me feel weird.
I never liked Senna for some reason. Maybe because I always was a fan of Nigel Mansell. At the same time, the trailer brought so much nostalgia. Just look at the last shot.
I remember when Senna's death was announced on Mexican TV. I was a kid, but old enough that I remember clearly. In a way, it makes me feel old.
About the Senna doc, be sure to try and get the 2h40m version if you have a choice, there's another version which is about one hour less of footage. Being a Senna fan since childhood I thoroughly enjoyed it.
PS: Is anyone from TL going to the Turkish GP in may? In case you are, drop me a PM maybe we can meet up and have some fun, I will be attending along with a few friends. Starcraft, F1 and beer anyone?!
On April 01 2011 21:44 RowdierBob wrote: I was at the GP on the weekend. First time I've ever been and I can't believe how loud they are. I can post some pics if anyone is interested.
Do post! I'd love me some shots of the melbourne track, looked fantastic on TV and one of the races I'm hoping (if its still there) to go to next year.
I had the pleasure of seeing the Red Bull show car (think it was the 2008 car) in my hometown last year. As I was working at it with a sound company, I was able to get up close and personal with the car and engineers. It was really awesome. DC came and drove up and down our city centre and donuts etc. But the one thing that you can never forget is the shear noise of an F1 car. It is unbelievable. I remember, me a few guys and my Boss were sitting round waiting for it to all get going, and my Boss was not really into the F1 thing, and they fired up the engine and we all stopped and looked at each other and all were like, holy fuck, is that for real? LOL. WIll never forget it. F1 cars are seriously amazing pieces of engineering. My boss after that had completely changed his perspective on F1 (as he thought it was kinda boring) after that, and now has huge respect for them.
I just started watching F1 this season, after watching Top Gear for years and watching the Ayrton Senna documentary. Best choice for something new to follow since starting to watch SC:BW 2-3 years ago.
Sepang in a few hours, shame about all Renault's problems in practice today, hopefully they'll fix em. Some crazy stuff seems to be going on with the tyres though, we'll see how it goes. Malaysia is always a good race though.
Going to be interesting how the tires play out this weekend. I think Red Bull is sandbagging a little though. I doubt McLaren are that close to them. I think in FP3, we'll see Webber and Vettel pull out a four tenths lead at least.
I think Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari are sandbagging altogether. That would put even more pressure on HRT, but since the weather forecast for both saturday's qualifying and sunday's race says heavy rain, they might have a chance to qualify within the 107%.
On April 09 2011 01:40 zere wrote: I think Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari are sandbagging altogether. That would put even more pressure on HRT, but since the weather forecast for both saturday's qualifying and sunday's race says heavy rain, they might have a chance to qualify within the 107%.
Yeah, it's never a question of if it's going to rain in Sepang, it's a question of when.
I really like how the movable rear wing causees the teams trouble deciding what gear ratios to run. They where moaning about it making it hard for the teams on the BBC but I think it adds anouther interesting element of having to choose between set ups that are best for the race or ones that are best for qualifying. I hated taking refueling out of F1 because it meant there where less options to cause different statergies and it seems really stupid to me to be compensating for this by making tyres that delibrately wear away fast to try and encoruage different stratergies.
Anway good job vettel pulling out a great lap to just pick Hamilton to the pole. Good job Mclarren making the car so competive again already with Ferrai been a bit slow right now if Mclarren hadn't managed to find the speed the start to this season would have been a lot of boring precession and 1-2's for Red Bull.
Mercedes GP has lots of problems on their car still with the rear wing system -.- Once that's all sorted I even think they'll be contenders for the top... let's hope for some rain tomorrow. What a disgrace for Schumacher to be driving a second tier car :-(
Rain expected for race. Hope so. Love this race because the threat of rain is always there. If its dry, Vettel has this imo. If the rain comes, its really hard to tell, as most of the teams have no wet rain testing, so its really a complete unknown!
This has been a fantastic Grand prix so much entertainment. The DBS is awesome givng the advantage to the car behind is great for 2 cars of similar pace, means they end up figthing all the time.
Ferrari where much faster than I expected and Renault too very fast today. Red Bull might be a bit unstoppable once they get the Kerrs working properlly. But I think this seasons gonna be all baout tyre wear and tyre stratergies. It didn't work out well for Hamiltion. Was that because he used to many tyres in qualifying yesterday?
On April 10 2011 18:46 Greg_J wrote: This has been a fantastic Grand prix so much entertainment. The DBS is awesome givng the advantage to the car behind is great for 2 cars of similar pace, means they end up figthing all the time.
Ferrari where much faster than I expected and Renault too very fast today. Red Bull might be a bit unstoppable once they get the Kerrs working properlly. But I think this seasons gonna be all baout tyre wear and tyre stratergies. It didn't work out well for Hamiltion. Was that because he used to many tyres in qualifying yesterday?
No, he used the same as everyone else. The only reason Red Bull and McLaren did two runs in q3 yesterday was they didnt need to use softs in q2. I think his problem today was just tyre wear, due to him following Heidfeld through his first stint he burnt them out faster than his rivals which he didnt recover from. To counter this McLaren put him on hard tyres before the others which lost him his advantage over Button and Alonso. All in all it was a frustrating day for him.
They should have let Button past as soon as he was within 1.5 seconds of Hamilton imo. If Button wasn't held up behind Hamilton I think he would have been able to challenge Vettel at the end.
On April 10 2011 19:59 Klive5ive wrote: They should have let Button past as soon as he was within 1.5 seconds of Hamilton imo. If Button wasn't held up behind Hamilton I think he would have been able to challenge Vettel at the end.
during that time, im sure they wanted to avoid a team on team situation. prob why button wasnt hitting DRS down the straight.
Good race. Still too many pit stops for my liking... It's really hard to tell what's going on at some point because even if you're 15 seconds ahead and you have bad tires you can lose that time in minutes. I like the wing change for sure... And I'm hoping to see more from MSC, I wasn't too impressed today, but I'm sure he still has it. Also poor Hamilton goes from 3rd to 7th in a few laps >
No. More pit stops is good it makes there more tactics and ensures the race isn't over to much latter. I'm all in favour of lots of pit stops. I guess it can be confuesing but thats kindave half the point.
Btw, Alonso and Hamilton each received a 20-second penalty, all the data in the op reflects Hamilton's change of result (2 points). No change for Alonso. Alonso got penalized for moshing into Hamilton, Hamilton got penalized for changing lines 3 times on a straight while defending his position.
Oh my god what the hell is going on in qualifying 2 (watching on bbc i player) they are racing each overtaking each other and even shutting the door and driving defensively in a qualfying session this is great/ridiculous. Only 2 mins 2 to get round a lap and start a fast one and almost everyone except Mclarren and Red Bull out there trying to get track position, hilarious.
Oh damn, I wasn't able to watch the race, curse me. What was going on?? I can see the race lead switched Vettel -> Button -> Hamilton -> Alonso -> Rosberg -> Vettel -> Massa -> Rosberg -> Vettel -> Hamilton; then they just said they thought Rosberg was a contender, too, but had to save fuel (lol?), di Resta beats Sutil again, Kovalainen in the Lotus beats a Sauber and a Williams, and Webber went from 18 to frikkin THIRD? Webber so beastly good - gotta rewatch the whole thing...
Amazing drive by Hamilton. In the final stint he nails Button, Rosberg, Massa AND Vettel to get into first. Phenomenal.
I think Webber showed a major flaw in the way the teams approached their strategies and this was something Rosberg pointed out in his interview. Why bother to race in Q3 at all? Just sit in the pits and put a fresh set of hard tyres on. Starting on the hard tyre was the better strategy. Nurse the start of the race til lap 15 then you've got 3 sets of perfect soft tyres to burn through!
Because it was a 3 stop race having the hard tyre last was a terrible decision. Webber was lapping THREE seconds a lap faster by the end of the race. You wanted to minimise the hard tyre stint and do it first where everyone is going slower anyway... then at the end of the race you're absolutely flying.
Amazing race, huge congratulations to Hamilton and Webber on stunning drives! Klive the reason that strategy worked so well for Webber was because 3 stop was better than 2 stop, and he was always going to be held up by the slower guys at the start if he went with the option. So using the prime first just negated any loss, infact he couldnt even keep up with the people he started alongside. If you are top 10 though, starting on prime wouldnt work, but it was an excellent decision by red bull for mark. Im so happy for him because the press were getting on his back for his season so far. He reminds me of my all time favourite driver, Mansell. Lewis' decision to only use one set of tyres for q3 proved very wise also, and he was hurt by jenson stopping one lap later than he was told to. I didnt see what happened between him and Massa but you have to assume that one extra lap he had to do made his tyres fall off the "cliff" the engineers talk about as he was a long way ahead of Massa starting that lap. Or he could have gone off or something, all i can do is speculate. Lets hope turkey brings more of the same.
On April 17 2011 19:31 Aristodemus wrote: Amazing race, huge congratulations to Hamilton and Webber on stunning drives! Klive the reason that strategy worked so well for Webber was because 3 stop was better than 2 stop, and he was always going to be held up by the slower guys at the start if he went with the option. So using the prime first just negated any loss, infact he couldnt even keep up with the people he started alongside. If you are top 10 though, starting on prime wouldnt work, but it was an excellent decision by red bull for mark. Im so happy for him because the press were getting on his back for his season so far. He reminds me of my all time favourite driver, Mansell. Lewis' decision to only use one set of tyres for q3 proved very wise also, and he was hurt by jenson stopping one lap later than he was told to. I didnt see what happened between him and Massa but you have to assume that one extra lap he had to do made his tyres fall off the "cliff" the engineers talk about as he was a long way ahead of Massa starting that lap. Or he could have gone off or something, all i can do is speculate. Lets hope turkey brings more of the same.
That doesn't make any sense. The strategy works from 18th but not 10th? It's the same strategy just 8 places higher. Rosberg pointed this out himself.
On April 17 2011 19:31 Aristodemus wrote: Amazing race, huge congratulations to Hamilton and Webber on stunning drives! Klive the reason that strategy worked so well for Webber was because 3 stop was better than 2 stop, and he was always going to be held up by the slower guys at the start if he went with the option. So using the prime first just negated any loss, infact he couldnt even keep up with the people he started alongside. If you are top 10 though, starting on prime wouldnt work, but it was an excellent decision by red bull for mark. Im so happy for him because the press were getting on his back for his season so far. He reminds me of my all time favourite driver, Mansell. Lewis' decision to only use one set of tyres for q3 proved very wise also, and he was hurt by jenson stopping one lap later than he was told to. I didnt see what happened between him and Massa but you have to assume that one extra lap he had to do made his tyres fall off the "cliff" the engineers talk about as he was a long way ahead of Massa starting that lap. Or he could have gone off or something, all i can do is speculate. Lets hope turkey brings more of the same.
That doesn't make any sense. The strategy works from 18th but not 10th? It's the same strategy just 8 places higher. Rosberg pointed this out himself.
It works as a counter strategy, it wouldn't be nearly as effective if everybody was doing it. It has a couple of big problems as a winners strategy.
You need to make passes. We saw many cars struggle to pass others that were the same pace, like the cars from Torro Rosso and Webber himself in the early portion of the race. If you ran into somebody else doing the same strategy but doing it simply slower you're sunk. If you run into a track/situation where you can't pass you're sunk.
You put your race in others' hands. It's pretty dangerous just being amongst guys who aren't expecting points, let alone passing them. Being out of synch also leaves you at the mercy of safety cars.
Every strategy looks better when a Red Bull does it. Vettel took second on a two stop strategy - a strategy I think it's fairly clear was not optimal today.
Is the strategy something to seriously consider if you're not looking at the front two rows? Absolutely. Should the fastest cars be on it? I think not.
On April 17 2011 22:24 Ho0ps wrote: Yeah it does feel like Webber is getting shafted by Red Bull, his car always has problems but he always drives it out of its skin.
What would you do if you were the team owner of RB Racing ? Invest in a 23 year old World Champion or into a 34 year old driver, who by all means didn't win the championship last year although he was widely ahead at times. It's like this in pretty much every team, or at least in the ones aiming for the championship: one driver will be prefered over the other (i.e. Alonso/Massa) As well, it was Vettel who had the problems today. His KERS didn't work properly, while Webber's worked.
On April 17 2011 19:31 Aristodemus wrote: Amazing race, huge congratulations to Hamilton and Webber on stunning drives! Klive the reason that strategy worked so well for Webber was because 3 stop was better than 2 stop, and he was always going to be held up by the slower guys at the start if he went with the option. So using the prime first just negated any loss, infact he couldnt even keep up with the people he started alongside. If you are top 10 though, starting on prime wouldnt work, but it was an excellent decision by red bull for mark. Im so happy for him because the press were getting on his back for his season so far. He reminds me of my all time favourite driver, Mansell. Lewis' decision to only use one set of tyres for q3 proved very wise also, and he was hurt by jenson stopping one lap later than he was told to. I didnt see what happened between him and Massa but you have to assume that one extra lap he had to do made his tyres fall off the "cliff" the engineers talk about as he was a long way ahead of Massa starting that lap. Or he could have gone off or something, all i can do is speculate. Lets hope turkey brings more of the same.
That doesn't make any sense. The strategy works from 18th but not 10th? It's the same strategy just 8 places higher. Rosberg pointed this out himself.
webbers strategy worked like a charm cause he had 3 sets of soft tires, due to him going out in the first round of qually, and only using 1 set of hards. thus he had an advantage in nearly every stint. thats why most of his overtakes were in the middle of the track corners, not on the back straight, cause he had that much more grip in the corners than others.
On April 17 2011 22:24 Ho0ps wrote: Yeah it does feel like Webber is getting shafted by Red Bull, his car always has problems but he always drives it out of its skin.
What would you do if you were the team owner of RB Racing ? Invest in a 23 year old World Champion or into a 34 year old driver, who by all means didn't win the championship last year although he was widely ahead at times. It's like this in pretty much every team, or at least in the ones aiming for the championship: one driver will be prefered over the other (i.e. Alonso/Massa) As well, it was Vettel who had the problems today. His KERS didn't work properly, while Webber's worked.
Vettel was given every advantage last year, in terms or parts and strategy.
As for your info about KERs.. Well Webber had no KERs for quali, Vettel did. They both Started the race with KERs, Webber's died on or before lap 24. Vettel's died and some unknown point, before lap ~50.
So Vettel crashes in practice 1. Other than that, pretty uneventful as it was very wet. P2 starting soon, and expected to be much of the same. Looks like it will be a wet race according to the weather reports. Predictions people?
I agree with the Turkey track, it's looking very weird, especially when you drive it in a simulation game on the computer. The layout doesn't look fluid, but only because the track is so wide. There's some really cool passages, especially the triple-left. Unfortunately there are some major speed bumps in this passage that could elseway be taken almost flat-out. But because the track is so wide, even the slower corners can be good overtaking spots, offering multiple lines. Look on youtube for Hamilton vs. Button last year, brilliant fight for the lead there. + Show Spoiler +
Vettel has this championship wrapped up. No one can touch him. His only defeat was a result of poor tyre strategy. The battle for second will be exciting. It should be Webber's, but he's continuously inconsistant (Will his KERS ever work?!?!). Alonso has closed the gap, but it won't be enough to challenge Vettel.
Overall I thought Turkey was a decent race. I like the new rules as it does provide increased entertainment; however, the DRS system seems a little too strong. It's unbelieveable how fast a gap can be closed. Sometimes I swear the person trailing isn't even quicker, but only challenges and passes as a result of DRS. Clearly, everyone should learn by now to NOT make less pit stops than everyone else. Vettel learned this at China and Button in Turkey. Trying to turtle around the track with crappy tyres will not yield good results.
Vettel's just too good. He's eliminated that erratic side of his driving and no one is quick enough to keep up.
Unless one of the other manufacturers finds a better way to invent the wheel, Vettel looks like he'll sleepwalk through this season. Astonishing how easily he's doing it. Despite my misgivings towards Red Bulls treatment of Webber (I'm an Aussie fanboy afterall), there's no denying just how much better Vettel is right now.
Here's a question for the f1 fans here: if Vettel was driving for McLaren or Ferrari (maybe even Renault?) do you think his success would be similar? How much of his success do you attribute to his setup alone? To his driving ability?
I haven't really followed F1 but it seems really interesting. They don't show F1 through the TV here where I live so I don't really follow and know all the ins and outs of it. Where do you guys watch the races or the VODS of the races? I'd much prefer watching F1 compared to nascar. I'll definitely be going to the Formula 1 races that are coming to Austin, TX in 2012 (seeing that I go to school here). I was talking to a few friends the other day and we were talking about formula one coming to austin and I saw this thread so I had to check it out. Seems like Vettel is dominating though. Is Vettel like Flash and Schumacher like Boxer/Nada of sc1?
It isnt a case of Vettel being too good, it is a case of the Red Bull being too good and Vettel just dominating Webber. He wouldnt have this sort of success in a Ferrari or McLaren, Alonso and Hamilton are the two best drivers in F1 right now. Red Bull have something, i dont know what, but they have something that the other teams do not. Similar to Williams active suspension in the early 90's, money talks in F1 and they just dont have a budget to compete with McLaren and Ferrari. Its really shining through in their qualifying performance, they are light years ahead but not so much on race pace. Do i think they are cheating? No. Do i think they are exploiting some sort or loophole like the F-Duct and double diffuser? Yes. Its clearly internal though and therefore incredibly difficult to figure out. McLaren have made complaints about the front wing flexing but i dont see that being the "secret". Fair play, Adrian Newey is a genius and McLaren should have just paid him what he wanted instead of taking the mentality that no one man is as important as the team. Mardi, might i recommend the BBC coverage of F1. If you cant find a re-stream (im sure you can) then just torrent it and try to avoid the result, shouldnt be hard in USA lol. It is by far the best coverage worldwide and has won many awards since they got the rights to broadcast back again. I have also seen the track plans for Texas and it looks great, you should definitely go to that first race. No matter how much i express the awesomeness and noise of an F1 car you will not appreciate it until seeing one live. TV cannot do them justice. As for your last question, No and Yes. Vettel looks unstoppable but he is driving the best car, in the junior formula (with equal cars) he raced against Hamilton and i think he was owned 14-1 or something, like i said before Hamilton and Alonso are the two Flashes if you like. Schumacher was great (and a dirty great cheater too ) but he is a shadow of his former self now, im not even sure he will see out the season now after he admitted he isnt enjoying it after Turkey.
and based on that F1 just perfectly fits his talent. there are different styles and types in racing. those junior cars could have just fit better to hamilton. maybe. we will never know for sure. i am convinced that seb is the best, since i saw him drive a very awesome car over some snowy mountain road in a way that took away my breath.
On May 09 2011 23:52 vdale wrote: I don't agree that Vettel is a worse driver than Hamilton.
Based on?
It's always subjective, but just basing your opinion on the Junior Formula isn't very good, because Hamilton is two and a half years older than Vettel and every year of experience is very important in the early years.
from Wikipedia:
Vettel is the youngest Formula One driver to drive at a Grand Prix meeting, at 19 years and 53 days. At the 2007 US Grand Prix when he became the youngest driver to score championship points. While racing for Toro Rosso, Vettel became the youngest driver to lead a race at the 2007 Japanese Grand Prix. During qualifying for the 2008 Italian Grand Prix, Vettel became the youngest Formula One driver to secure pole position.[1] He went on to win the race, making him the youngest F1 race winner by nearly a year.[2] After joining Red Bull Racing in 2009 he finished the season as the youngest ever runner-up. The following year he went on to become the youngest driver ever to win the championship.
You can't say that he is only doing so good just because of his car, because he also achieved a lot with an inferior car (Toro Rosso).
Vettel definitely has the best car, but I think he is just as talented as Hamilton or Alonso. Though it really is all subjective and there is no way to know for sure. I wish it were possible to see how Vettel would perform with Hamilton's car. I'd supsect it would be very similar to what Hamilton is capable of.
On May 10 2011 03:16 Aristodemus wrote: I dont base my opinion on junior formula, i base it on everything. If you want i will go into alot of details.
I'm curious to know! I enjoy F1, but am definitely a casual observer. It seems that the top 5-6 guys don't really have that much between them and their success would interchange based on who had the best car. I if I had to rank drivers atm it would probably look something like: 1. Vettel 2. Alonso 3. Hamilton 4. Button 5. Webber 6. The rest
But they all seem to be fairly close and it seems the car setup has more to do with results than driver skill. It's hard to judge driver skill as the only real metrics available to measure success are race results and qualifying.
The above is purely my own speculation based on what I've seen, but I think you could almost put any of those guys in the best car (and I'm sure there IS a difference in the package Vettel and Webber are driving at Red Bull) and they'd come out on top.
On May 10 2011 03:16 Aristodemus wrote: I dont base my opinion on junior formula, i base it on everything. If you want i will go into alot of details.
I'm curious to know! I enjoy F1, but am definitely a casual observer. It seems that the top 5-6 guys don't really have that much between them and their success would interchange based on who had the best car. I if I had to rank drivers atm it would probably look something like: 1. Vettel 2. Alonso 3. Hamilton 4. Button 5. Webber 6. The rest
But they all seem to be fairly close and it seems the car setup has more to do with results than driver skill. It's hard to judge driver skill as the only real metrics available to measure success are race results and qualifying.
The above is purely my own speculation based on what I've seen, but I think you could almost put any of those guys in the best car (and I'm sure there IS a difference in the package Vettel and Webber are driving at Red Bull) and they'd come out on top.
I'm not sure I'd give Button the #4 spot...I mean he is probably the worst driver to ever win a championship. He hasn't even come close to competing since then and Hamilton easily outclasses him every race. Though I don't know who else to give that spot to, maybe Webber I dunno. I think it's obvious that it's Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, and the rest.
If i rank people in F1 right now i will go:- 1. Hamilton 2. Alonso 3. Kubica 4. Vettel 5. Button 6. Rosberg
Ok, while i agree it is hard to rate drivers ability there are many ways you can get indications. So why are Hamilton and Alonso the best two?
Lewis Hamilton- In junior formula this guy has no equals, not even close. You can say that this has no bearing on his ability in F1 but i disagree, his level of success in a wide variety of cars shows versatility. As a result of this, for his debut in F1 at just 22 he was given the seat of one of the prestigious two teams (McLaren and Ferrari). This however comes with pro's and con's. He woud be able to showcase his talent and be given a car capable of winning races and possibly the title, on the downside he would be up against Fernando Alonso. At the time Alonso had just ended the domination of Schumacher quite brilliantly whilst driving for Renault winning back to back titles, and was the completely undisputed best driver. It was a daunting task to not look outclassed let alone compete with him. This was the only year i believe McLaren have had the best car, albeit not by much. From the very first race Hamilton was on the pace of Alonso, and as the season progressed he became more and more dominant. Going into the final two races he was clear favourite for the title despite the ridiculous in-fighting between the two drivers (read up on it if your interested) mainly caused by Alonso's pride being hurt. McLaren made a bad call in China which cost him dearly, trying to stay out on tyres until they were down to the canvas, something i have never seen before and as he pitted Lewis understeered into the gravel trap of the pitlane. In Brazil he suffered a gearbox malfunction in the opening laps which relegated him down to almost last. In the end he lost out on the title to Raikonnen but still finished ahead of his illustrious team-mate. This season is the best indicator of his talent. In 2008 he managed to take the title, despite some questionable penalties shall we say, and an inferior car to the Ferrari of Massa and Raikonnen. It was very close, winning it in the last corner of the very last race. He became the youngest ever world champion until it was beaten last year by Vettel. In 2009 McLaren produced a dog of a car, partly due to the fact they invested so much in the battle with Ferrari of 2008. He vastly over-achieved in this car and actually took two race wins as it was developed throughout the season. Last season he was given a decent car once again, however it wasnt close to the Red Bull, and was helped massively by the F-Duct. However as is the case in F1 the other teams will copy a successful concept and by the second half of the season it was clear the McLaren was the third fastest car. Despite this, he was able to fight tooth and nail for the title with Vettel, Webber and Alonso and had quite a large advantage at one point. Three races ended this though, a gearbox failure and two racing incidents both very similar to each other with fairly light contact resulting in Hamiltons car retiring. It cost him the title in my opinion. To summarize, no team-mate has ever beaten Hamilton, and only Alonso has come close to doing so.
Fernando Alonso- Fernando has had quite a career so far, very colourful and entertaining at times but no objective person can deny the immense talent he has. He was one of the first of the "new generation" of drivers benefiting from allowing kids to compete at a younger age in karting, and had a very successful junior career. This earned him a spot in F1 at a very young age (not so uncommon now) although it was only at Minardi who were the slowest team by some margin. All he could do really was beat his team-mate. He did this by a huge margin though which made eveyone take notice of him, even if some discreditted his team-mates rather than credit Alonso. He even beat other teams on a couple of occassions, quite remarkable really. He was promoted to test driver of Renault the next year with a race seat the following year (ousting Jenson Button and nearly costing him his career). He managed a great win at Hungary to become the youngest ever race winner (later to be beaten by Hamilton and Vettel). The real magic however began in 2005, at the time Ferrari and Schumacher were cruising to championships (5 on the trot) for a variety of reasons but not this year. Alonso and Raikkonen had an insane battle for the title with the McLaren having more speed but less reliability. After he secured the title in Brazil, Alonso drove perhaps the greatest race i have have ever seen at Suzuka passing people left right and centre. Unfortunately for him he didnt get the credit he deserved as Raikkonen won the race from 20th on the grid in the much superior McLaren. In 2006 he again won the title, this time with an epic battle with Schumacher where he completely dethroned the German and essentially ended his career. Alonso had some magnificent drives this year, notably in Hungary where he carved his way through the field only to be cruelly denied victory with his wheel falling off after a pitstop. Due to his incredible performances and Raikonnens decision to replace Schumacher at Ferrari, Alonso signed for McLaren (see above^^). He terminated his own contract with them the following year to return to Renault who had become a midfield team and had a fairly uneventful couple of years albeit winning two races in 2008 (one as a result of cheating). Last year the Ferrari was clearly inferior to the Red Bull but yet Alonso was only denied the title by a bad call from the Ferrari team in the final race and his inability to overtake the Renault of Petrov. To sum up his career so far, it has been quite brilliant, his only flaw being 2007 which i think came as a bit of a shock to him. It seems he is back on track now though.
Hamilton is definitely the most aggressive driver in F1. I think he has trouble managing a race though. Whether it's saving his tires by driving conservatively or just picking his spots to overtake, his aggressiveness can hurt him as much as it helps him (see Singapore last year when he tried to overtake Webber and ended up crashing out and ruining his championship chances).
It's really hard to say how good Vettel is at the moment. He had some very good results (including a race win in the wet) for Toro Rosso which is very very impressive. But last year and then so far this year, the Red Bull car has been just a superior platform all around. With the F-Duct gone this year, top speed is no longer the huge weakness it used to be for Red Bull so on the faster tracks like Monza and Spa, they are no longer at a significant disadvantage. Vettel wins the championship easily this year, but I don't think it will be a true indicator of his talent.
I think the DRS zone was too long in Turkey. They are going to have to be very careful with this feature if they don't want races to turn into a joke.
I remember in previous seasons where drivers would close the gap to the car infront of them by 1-2 seconds/lap and then be unable to pass once they were right behind it, but this season it seems like the opposite. As long as you can be less than 1 second behind in the DRS activation line the pass seemed guaranteed.
On May 12 2011 21:57 Noam wrote: I think the DRS zone was too long in Turkey. They are going to have to be very careful with this feature if they don't want races to turn into a joke.
I remember in previous seasons where drivers would close the gap to the car infront of them by 1-2 seconds/lap and then be unable to pass once they were right behind it, but this season it seems like the opposite. As long as you can be less than 1 second behind in the DRS activation line the pass seemed guaranteed.
Alonso said after the race that tire degradation is leading to more overtaking than DRS. I do agree that overtaking seems so much less epic this year. I'm on the fence whether I like this style more or less.
If i rank people in F1 right now i will go:- 1. Hamilton 2. Alonso 3. Kubica 4. Vettel 5. Button 6. Rosberg
Ok, while i agree it is hard to rate drivers ability there are many ways you can get indications. So why are Hamilton and Alonso the best two?
Lewis Hamilton- In junior formula this guy has no equals, not even close. You can say that this has no bearing on his ability in F1 but i disagree, his level of success in a wide variety of cars shows versatility. As a result of this, for his debut in F1 at just 22 he was given the seat of one of the prestigious two teams (McLaren and Ferrari). This however comes with pro's and con's. He woud be able to showcase his talent and be given a car capable of winning races and possibly the title, on the downside he would be up against Fernando Alonso. At the time Alonso had just ended the domination of Schumacher quite brilliantly whilst driving for Renault winning back to back titles, and was the completely undisputed best driver. It was a daunting task to not look outclassed let alone compete with him. This was the only year i believe McLaren have had the best car, albeit not by much. From the very first race Hamilton was on the pace of Alonso, and as the season progressed he became more and more dominant. Going into the final two races he was clear favourite for the title despite the ridiculous in-fighting between the two drivers (read up on it if your interested) mainly caused by Alonso's pride being hurt. McLaren made a bad call in China which cost him dearly, trying to stay out on tyres until they were down to the canvas, something i have never seen before and as he pitted Lewis understeered into the gravel trap of the pitlane. In Brazil he suffered a gearbox malfunction in the opening laps which relegated him down to almost last. In the end he lost out on the title to Raikonnen but still finished ahead of his illustrious team-mate. This season is the best indicator of his talent. In 2008 he managed to take the title, despite some questionable penalties shall we say, and an inferior car to the Ferrari of Massa and Raikonnen. It was very close, winning it in the last corner of the very last race. He became the youngest ever world champion until it was beaten last year by Vettel. In 2009 McLaren produced a dog of a car, partly due to the fact they invested so much in the battle with Ferrari of 2008. He vastly over-achieved in this car and actually took two race wins as it was developed throughout the season. Last season he was given a decent car once again, however it wasnt close to the Red Bull, and was helped massively by the F-Duct. However as is the case in F1 the other teams will copy a successful concept and by the second half of the season it was clear the McLaren was the third fastest car. Despite this, he was able to fight tooth and nail for the title with Vettel, Webber and Alonso and had quite a large advantage at one point. Three races ended this though, a gearbox failure and two racing incidents both very similar to each other with fairly light contact resulting in Hamiltons car retiring. It cost him the title in my opinion. To summarize, no team-mate has ever beaten Hamilton, and only Alonso has come close to doing so.
Fernando Alonso- Fernando has had quite a career so far, very colourful and entertaining at times but no objective person can deny the immense talent he has. He was one of the first of the "new generation" of drivers benefiting from allowing kids to compete at a younger age in karting, and had a very successful junior career. This earned him a spot in F1 at a very young age (not so uncommon now) although it was only at Minardi who were the slowest team by some margin. All he could do really was beat his team-mate. He did this by a huge margin though which made eveyone take notice of him, even if some discreditted his team-mates rather than credit Alonso. He even beat other teams on a couple of occassions, quite remarkable really. He was promoted to test driver of Renault the next year with a race seat the following year (ousting Jenson Button and nearly costing him his career). He managed a great win at Hungary to become the youngest ever race winner (later to be beaten by Hamilton and Vettel). The real magic however began in 2005, at the time Ferrari and Schumacher were cruising to championships (5 on the trot) for a variety of reasons but not this year. Alonso and Raikkonen had an insane battle for the title with the McLaren having more speed but less reliability. After he secured the title in Brazil, Alonso drove perhaps the greatest race i have have ever seen at Suzuka passing people left right and centre. Unfortunately for him he didnt get the credit he deserved as Raikkonen won the race from 20th on the grid in the much superior McLaren. In 2006 he again won the title, this time with an epic battle with Schumacher where he completely dethroned the German and essentially ended his career. Alonso had some magnificent drives this year, notably in Hungary where he carved his way through the field only to be cruelly denied victory with his wheel falling off after a pitstop. Due to his incredible performances and Raikonnens decision to replace Schumacher at Ferrari, Alonso signed for McLaren (see above^^). He terminated his own contract with them the following year to return to Renault who had become a midfield team and had a fairly uneventful couple of years albeit winning two races in 2008 (one as a result of cheating). Last year the Ferrari was clearly inferior to the Red Bull but yet Alonso was only denied the title by a bad call from the Ferrari team in the final race and his inability to overtake the Renault of Petrov. To sum up his career so far, it has been quite brilliant, his only flaw being 2007 which i think came as a bit of a shock to him. It seems he is back on track now though.
Nobody is denying that Hamilton and Alonso are extremely talented, but so is Vettel. You can't say that Hamilton is better than Vettel just by pointing out what Hamilton did.
In 2006 he again won the title, this time with an epic battle with Schumacher where he completely dethroned the German and essentially ended his career.
Alonso didn't end Schumacher's career, because Schumacher announced his retirement shortly before he took the lead in the championship. Alonso also didn't completely dethrone Schumacher.
This is going to be a crazy race weekend I think. Longest DRS zone + most tire degradation of the year = record amounts of overtaking. Can't see anyone beating Red Bull on that track. I'm interested to see the tire strategy during qualifying. Given the difference in performance between the two compounds, teams may be wise to conserve tires during quali at all costs.
To suggest that Vettel is the best is incredibly short-sighted. It's basically all from this years hype which is just the fastest car running away from the field. Last year he barely beat Mark Webber, who is incredibly inconsistent and can't be considered a top driver anymore. Look at what Jenson did to win his title, he beat Barichello and ran away with it. Not many would argue that Jenson was the best driver in the world because of that. Given the chance Vettel has had many drivers could have won last year with ease and be just as far ahead this year.
In terms of raw pace and ability I think Hamilton is probably the best in F1. He beat Alonso in his first year, an incredibly feat, and now he's making Jenson button look slow. That's 2 world champions that can't keep up with him.
On May 21 2011 06:52 Klive5ive wrote: To suggest that Vettel is the best is incredibly short-sighted. It's basically all from this years hype which is just the fastest car running away from the field. Last year he barely beat Mark Webber, who is incredibly inconsistent and can't be considered a top driver anymore. Look at what Jenson did to win his title, he beat Barichello and ran away with it. Not many would argue that Jenson was the best driver in the world because of that. Given the chance Vettel has had many drivers could have won last year with ease and be just as far ahead this year.
In terms of raw pace and ability I think Hamilton is probably the best in F1. He beat Alonso in his first year, an incredibly feat, and now he's making Jenson button look slow. That's 2 world champions that can't keep up with him.
I agree with klive, Vettel has been utterly prone to mistakes in F1 and he has struggled at times to out-pace Webber who is not top tier at all. The only people who have come close to Hamilton and Alonso are each other. As for this weekend, based on todays practice i think McLaren have made a step. Still not on the pace of the Red Bull but maybe enough for Hamilton to atleast get inbetween the two and maybe get another win. This track is clearly Red Bull favoured too, so it bodes well for the rest of the year for McLaren. Ofcourse nobody can predict who will be the worst affected by the FIA's decision to limit throttle usage over the blown diffuser. That could change everything.
On May 21 2011 06:52 Klive5ive wrote: To suggest that Vettel is the best is incredibly short-sighted. It's basically all from this years hype which is just the fastest car running away from the field. Last year he barely beat Mark Webber, who is incredibly inconsistent and can't be considered a top driver anymore. Look at what Jenson did to win his title, he beat Barichello and ran away with it. Not many would argue that Jenson was the best driver in the world because of that. Given the chance Vettel has had many drivers could have won last year with ease and be just as far ahead this year.
In terms of raw pace and ability I think Hamilton is probably the best in F1. He beat Alonso in his first year, an incredibly feat, and now he's making Jenson button look slow. That's 2 world champions that can't keep up with him.
I agree with klive, Vettel has been utterly prone to mistakes in F1 and he has struggled at times to out-pace Webber who is not top tier at all. The only people who have come close to Hamilton and Alonso are each other. As for this weekend, based on todays practice i think McLaren have made a step. Still not on the pace of the Red Bull but maybe enough for Hamilton to atleast get inbetween the two and maybe get another win. This track is clearly Red Bull favoured too, so it bodes well for the rest of the year for McLaren. Ofcourse nobody can predict who will be the worst affected by the FIA's decision to limit throttle usage over the blown diffuser. That could change everything.
McLaren said they will be affected. But if I recall correctly, didn't they copy a lot of design elements from that area of the car off of Red Bull?
Everyone will be affected, its just how badly. With an system like that too all you can really copy is the concept not the actual design. Much like last years F-Duct.
I think Red Bull are the ones that started using the concept and has the most experience running it so I think it would hurt them the most. The thing is though, how the hell will the FIA prove if someone is using it? The only way of know is by going thru the engine mappings very carefully and I doubt any FIA official would even understand what each settign does in each of the diffrent type of engine.
On May 21 2011 07:39 Zalman wrote: I think Red Bull are the ones that started using the concept and has the most experience running it so I think it would hurt them the most. The thing is though, how the hell will the FIA prove if someone is using it? The only way of know is by going thru the engine mappings very carefully and I doubt any FIA official would even understand what each settign does in each of the diffrent type of engine.
Yeah it is quite simple to prove through telemetry, they can enforce it no problem. Not like team orders.
Apparantly, the new hard Pirelli compound is complete rubbish. Nico Hulkenberg talks about 'zero grip', and Alonso just smiled: "About these tyres, I'd rather not say anything". Sauber estimated the soft tyre as 2.4 seconds (!!) quicker than the new 'super hard' compound. When Hamilton used them the first time, he thought that something on his car was broken (!), but then found out that the tyres were just 'catastrophical', Button agreed and said the tyres are 'shockingly bad'. Both Rosberg and Massa, too, confirmed they couldn't get them working, Vettel just described them as 'extremely hard', and Webber says that, due to these tyres, on the longruns they are about as quick as the GP2-series (!). For comparison: Yesterday's GP2 times were ranging in the 1:30s to 1:31s, and seeing that yesterday's HRT times were ranging from 1:29s to 1:32s, I'd say that Webber's estimation could indeed be quite accurate. Drivers and teams are talking about 3-4 pitstops in the race , and Hembrey, the Pirelli guy, is furious about it and accuses the teams of not testing the tyre properly; he is looking at his data and expects 1-2 stop strategies. Oh, the drama, lovely :D
On May 21 2011 17:11 zere wrote: Apparantly, the new hard Pirelli compound is complete rubbish. Nico Hulkenberg talks about 'zero grip', and Alonso just smiled: "About these tyres, I'd rather not say anything". Sauber estimated the soft tyre as 2.4 seconds (!!) quicker than the new 'super hard' compound. When Hamilton used them the first time, he thought that something on his car was broken (!), but then found out that the tyres were just 'catastrophical', Button agreed and said the tyres are 'shockingly bad'. Both Rosberg and Massa, too, confirmed they couldn't get them working, Vettel just described them as 'extremely hard', and Webber says that, due to these tyres, on the longruns they are about as quick as the GP2-series (!). For comparison: Yesterday's GP2 times were ranging in the 1:30s to 1:31s, and seeing that yesterday's HRT times were ranging from 1:29s to 1:32s, I'd say that Webber's estimation could indeed be quite accurate. Drivers and teams are talking about 3-4 pitstops in the race , and Hembrey, the Pirelli guy, is furious about it and accuses the teams of not testing the tyre properly; he is looking at his data and expects 1-2 stop strategies. Oh, the drama, lovely :D
Yeah it could even reach the absurd. Imagine if each driver only does 1 lap on them :p
On May 21 2011 07:56 AntiLegend wrote: btw, today Kimi Raikönnen (2007 f1 champion) will race in a nascar race for the first time
following the path of jp montoya? sigh, i wonder if he'll actually come back to f1.
he finished rank 15 of 36 cars. sounds like a respectable placement for someone who has never raced a stock car on such a course. i don't think he'll do nascar "fulltime". this was just the nascar truck series (pickup cars). i guess he just wanted to try out a different form of racing and had some time between ralleyes.
i'd love to see him back at f1, as he is by far my favourite driver. maybe there's a chance Webber gets replaced by him
Kimi stopped caring about F1 when ferrari gave him the $30m pa contract, its a shame because at McLaren and Sauber he was really good. He wont come back now.
It's a bit unfair to call them rubbish, since they were designed to be worse than they could be. It doesn't seem like an easy task to design a tire that will degrade and gradually lose grip over such a short distance.
They can and would have designed a highgripping compound that would last an entire race, but then the teams wouldn't have a reason to pit since they carry fuel for the entire race.
But I guess we'll see new tires developed and the current ones improved during the season, since Pirelli won't like the negative publicity.
We are in Spain and nothing extraordinary seems to be going on. New for this season is that overtaking will actually be possible, meaning that less emphasis was put upon qualifying. Hamilton even stated that he was very happy with his P3 (cleanside) and hoped to be P1 come first corner.
Nothing to shocking happened in qualifiers, Nick Heidfeld could unfortunately not get out onto the track after his unfortunate fire-accident in practice 3 but the stewards are expected to let him race after watching his practice times.
Mark Webber took his first P1 of this season in front of teammate Sebastian Vettel. They are not-so-closely followed by Hamilton, Alonso and Button. Alonso did an amazing drive in P3, managing to split up the two McLarens despite having some problems with his car.
I think the race is going to be really exiting today, especially the fight between Mark Webber and Lewis Hamilton. If Webber beats Hamilton today he will pass him in the standings.
Another thing to watch out for are both the Ferrari drivers. Alonso did a terrific qualifier and after Turkey he is looking more and more like a real contender to the McLarens. Massa is not showing as good form but he has consistently placed in the top 8 of every race and if he can just get his car in top shape he could be a contender, perhaps not for the podium but well for the somewhat struggling Button.
Now, tires. Tires are the talk of the season and ohh do they create interesting races. With the hard-tires being worse then the options but not lasting any longer there have been a significant switch in strategies from the teams for this season.
Here in Spain, Pirelli has come out with a new version of the hard tire, an even worse version. Or well, that depends on how you look at it, because this will most certainly be entertaining for the fans! With drivers quoted as saying that the hard tire adds two seconds or more per lap we can expect the team to utilize some exiting strategies. Making those soft tires last for as long as possible will be crucial, perhaps even to the point where the drivers can't drive aggressively due to tire-wear?
Anyway, the 2011 F1 season is still young but tension is already in the air. Can someone stop the reign of the Red Bulls? Will we see more than two teams competing for the top positions? Today's going to be an exiting race, that's for sure
Very good start from Alonso, Webber wasn't up to par at the start, really. Trulli and Kovalainen are keeping up with Maldonado/di Resta, pulling away from Heidfeld/Sutil, wow! Lotus lap time 1:32.8, Heidfeld with no traffic 1:33.3, Sutil no traffic 1:34.0
This fight between Vettel and Hamilton is shaping up to be really exiting, Vettel just seems to have a lower pace than Hamilton. Hopefully he can make a clean pass and get away, but more exiting would be an epic overtaking series all the way to the finish line
Great race, Hamilton showing his class today. If Barcelona wasnt such a tough track to overtake it would have been an awesome victory. Alonso broke his diffuser at some point which helps to understand why his pace went to shit, maybe Webber hit him. This looks great for McLaren though because this track is very well suited to Red Bull. I have to say well done to Vettel too, even if he has the fastest car he did brilliant after his first stop to get past Rosberg and Button so quickly. Monaco and Canada next up Two traditionally good tracks for McLaren, maybe we will have a good fight for the title after all, 41 points is a long way though.
I think they got the DRS zone just a little bit too short today especially considering how incredibly difficult a track Spain is to overtake on. It might not have affected the race result but it would have added to the excitement. Seeing the front four cars just follow each other until the first pit stops is not what we really want to see.
Dangerous crash there for Perez, that corner always looks scary and it was quite bad to see him go sideways into the barrier, thankfully there is good safety around there and in the car and he is concious, was looking forward to watching him race tomorrow but don't think there is any chance of him driving tomorrow, hopefully he does not have anything but some bruises and can race in Canada.
Yeah, thanks to Rosberg for crashing in that corner yesterday so they removed the inner bumpers in that chicane, else he would have completely taken off. What worried me was the fact that the ambulance didn't drive off after they put him in there. Now that I think of it again, I think he didn't get out of his car because he placed his hands in front of his helmet and broke them. I never had a fractured bone, but i imagine it to be quite impossible to remove saftey belts with all of your fingers broken.
There's a G limiter in the car that goes off if a force of certain strength is exerted on the car. Once that happens they go through the procedure just to make sure.
It really sucks for the race though since it's ruined qualifying. Once the track cools down and with bits all over it it's impossible to drive a competitive qualifying lap. However, It could still be a great race tomorrow, let's hope for the best.
That was a BIG accident. Simple because the crash ended instantly, where as some other accidents that look big, are not really bad as they take a long time for the car to slow down. In this case the car must have had insane G force when it had to stop. Amazing how safe this sport is now. It is of course still dangerous, but none the less, good job FIA.
On May 28 2011 22:46 Klive5ive wrote: There's a G limiter in the car that goes off if a force of certain strength is exerted on the car. Once that happens they go through the procedure just to make sure.
It really sucks for the race though since it's ruined qualifying. Once the track cools down and with bits all over it it's impossible to drive a competitive qualifying lap. However, It could still be a great race tomorrow, let's hope for the best.
I dunno, I am looking forward to Hamilton trying to barge his way through. What can be said, I dont think the tyres deteriote as much as we have seen in previous races, so I dont think we will see just as much over taking sadly. I dont think Button has the speed over the long distance, and I can see Vettel just taking off into the distance for this one.
However alot can happen in the first corner. Schumahcer has been having insane starts this season, maybe he can make a big showing ?
Very entertaining race again, I am loving this season. Lucky win for Vettel though, with him being able to change tyres after the red flag. Sutil's tyres fell off "the cliff" and looking at the times I am pretty sure Vettel, Alonso, Kobayashi and Petrov were about to do the same. I think Button should have won today. It was a weekend to forget for Hamilton though, everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong. My driver of the day I think has to go to Kamui. Hopefully Perez and Petrov are fit and well for Canada.
It was entertaining for all the lulz hamilton and trolling he pulled off. The crashes were also weird and fun. I actually liked this monaco race though frankly Vettel doesnt really deserve it that much, that's just how it goes.
i'm surprised they restarted the race with 6 laps to go tbh. hamilton was a dick to maldonado though, can't just stick your nose in and expect the other guys to move out of the way.
Wow strongest interview i have ever seen with Hamilton just now. I think he was wronged too. As for the Maldonado incident, it was a fair move, he had the line and Maldonado should have yielded. Just like Lewis did with Schumacher lap1.
Hamilton drove like a massive cock today, whatever, everyone has a bad day once in a while. I agree that Button probably deserved the win the most with Alonso in 2nd, but I have to disagree on Vettel only winning because of the crash in a pathetic race. On his 60 laps old tires he was still going 1:19:500, which was still more than a second faster (!) than anyone else, except Button and Alonso.
And after causing two incidents, almost causing an incident with Schumi and driving around the lap with a half hanging on rear wing, hamilton how plays the race card to blame the FIA.
"These drivers are absolutely frickin ridiculously stupid."
"Why do you think you're being focussed on" - "Maybe it's because I"m black"
(from the autosport forums).
What a disgrace to not just F1 pilots but also human beings.
Vettel was lapping in the late 20's for the last few laps before the red flag. The only reason they were faster than everyone else was because of the train being led by Sutil and Kobayashi who were also on really old tyres. As for Hamilton today being "a massive cock" i dont buy that at all. On the incidents this weekend i will go through them. In qualifying Massa blocked him on his fast lap and recieved no penalty. A few years ago Alonso at monza was penalised for blocking Massa after Ferrari proved he was slightly affected by him. McLaren could easily have proved Hamilton was held up by Massa yesterday. As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner (as he crashed into the back of Webber) and Lewis had to go over the kerb to avoid him but still couldnt. In the tunnel Massa just tried to go side by side on the marbles, he crashed on his own. It was the same with Maldonado, Lewis had the racing line on the inside and Maldonado turned in on him. People make contact all the time in F1, it is the nature of racing. There were worse incidents today i think. Kobayashi charged into the back of Sutil. DiResta smashed straight into someone at the hairpin (he also recieved an unjust penalty in my opinion). Schumacher drove straight into the back of Hamilton at the start breaking his diffuser. DiResta drove straight into the back of a D'Ambrosio breaking his diffuser They are only the ones broadcast too.
Watching the replay of the first lap and seeing how Hamilton had the presence of mind to be able to avoid crashing into Schumacher in the hairpin, I can see sympathise with his viewpoint that "if I can do it, other people can" although I think that's a pretty naive viewpoint.
On May 30 2011 00:22 KiNGxXx wrote: Yeah Vettel! Great race with these tyres! I don't think he was lucky. Alonso had no chance to overtake him.
Oh do get out He had 15 laps to do on tyres that were about to drop off the cliff and offer him no grip. he got super lucky. Alonso/Jensen deserved the win.
As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner
Massa had the racing line while hamilton just charges right on the inside, Hamilton should know better.
The inside is the racing line, what Hamilton had. You have two choices, you give them room or you turn in to make certain contact. Schumacher made two moves like that today on Hamilton and Rosberg and both drivers choose the wise option of leaving room.
On May 30 2011 00:19 Aristodemus wrote: Vettel was lapping in the late 20's for the last few laps before the red flag. The only reason they were faster than everyone else was because of the train being led by Sutil and Kobayashi who were also on really old tyres. As for Hamilton today being "a massive cock" i dont buy that at all. On the incidents this weekend i will go through them. In qualifying Massa blocked him on his fast lap and recieved no penalty. A few years ago Alonso at monza was penalised for blocking Massa after Ferrari proved he was slightly affected by him. McLaren could easily have proved Hamilton was held up by Massa yesterday. As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner (as he crashed into the back of Webber) and Lewis had to go over the kerb to avoid him but still couldnt. In the tunnel Massa just tried to go side by side on the marbles, he crashed on his own. It was the same with Maldonado, Lewis had the racing line on the inside and Maldonado turned in on him. People make contact all the time in F1, it is the nature of racing. There were worse incidents today i think. Kobayashi charged into the back of Sutil. DiResta smashed straight into someone at the hairpin (he also recieved an unjust penalty in my opinion). Schumacher drove straight into the back of Hamilton at the start breaking his diffuser. DiResta drove straight into the back of a D'Ambrosio breaking his diffuser They are only the ones broadcast too.
Its amazing how far hamilton's fans will go to defend him.
Massa couldn't get his car to levitate so he got blocked by massa.
Then he made a banzai move on schumi which didnt result in an accident only because Schumi is god.
Then he knocks massa at the hair pin and pushes him on the marbles in the tunnel.
Then he does the same banazi move on maldonado.
And then he plays the race card.
And finally he back pedals and claims it was a joke though it seemed obvious he was angry and clearly venting.
If that isn't being a cock throughout the weekend I don't know what is.
(Well next he could say that Perez and Petrov ruined his chance to win the race by getting injured).
Also Monaco should be off the calendar. Its going to end in tears like 94 Imola one of these days.
On May 30 2011 00:21 FractalsOnFire wrote: LOL HAMILTON SUCH A TROLL!!!
EDIT:
As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner
Massa had the racing line while hamilton just charges right on the inside, Hamilton should know better.
The inside is the racing line, what Hamilton had. You have two choices, you give them room or you turn in to make certain contact. Schumacher made two moves like that today on Hamilton and Rosberg and both drivers choose the wise option of leaving room.
The regulations don't support you. The only preference comes when you are ahead. Massa was ahead. Ergo Hamilton is at fault.
On May 30 2011 00:21 FractalsOnFire wrote: LOL HAMILTON SUCH A TROLL!!!
EDIT:
As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner
Massa had the racing line while hamilton just charges right on the inside, Hamilton should know better.
The inside is the racing line, what Hamilton had. You have two choices, you give them room or you turn in to make certain contact. Schumacher made two moves like that today on Hamilton and Rosberg and both drivers choose the wise option of leaving room.
If the inside is the racing line, EVERY OTHER DRIVER would drive the line Hamilton did. That is nowhere near the racing line, it is far too early an apex to be driving that kind of line. What massa did is the correct line, outside entry into clipping the mid apex.
On May 30 2011 00:21 FractalsOnFire wrote: LOL HAMILTON SUCH A TROLL!!!
EDIT:
As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner
Massa had the racing line while hamilton just charges right on the inside, Hamilton should know better.
The inside is the racing line, what Hamilton had. You have two choices, you give them room or you turn in to make certain contact. Schumacher made two moves like that today on Hamilton and Rosberg and both drivers choose the wise option of leaving room.
The regulations don't support you. The only preference comes when you are ahead. Massa was ahead. Ergo Hamilton is at fault.
Massa could have chosen to avoid the accident like Hamilton/Rosberg did earlier. The fact that he didn't means he should take at least half the responsibility for the crash.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
On May 30 2011 00:21 FractalsOnFire wrote: LOL HAMILTON SUCH A TROLL!!!
EDIT:
As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner
Massa had the racing line while hamilton just charges right on the inside, Hamilton should know better.
The inside is the racing line, what Hamilton had. You have two choices, you give them room or you turn in to make certain contact. Schumacher made two moves like that today on Hamilton and Rosberg and both drivers choose the wise option of leaving room.
The regulations don't support you. The only preference comes when you are ahead. Massa was ahead. Ergo Hamilton is at fault.
Massa could have chosen to avoid the accident like Hamilton/Rosberg did earlier. The fact that he didn't means he should take at least half the responsibility for the crash.
Thats not how the regulations are written or interpreted. Massa couldn't have avoided him in any case without going straight to the wall of the hairpin. Maybe they should share the responsibility at 99% Hamilton, 1% massa.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
On May 30 2011 00:22 KiNGxXx wrote: Yeah Vettel! Great race with these tyres! I don't think he was lucky. Alonso had no chance to overtake him.
Oh do get out He had 15 laps to do on tyres that were about to drop off the cliff and offer him no grip. he got super lucky. Alonso/Jensen deserved the win.
I wonder what they say on the British television. Vettel defended very well and there were only 8 laps to go. I'm pretty sure Vettel also would have won without the crash. Someone from Red Bull said on the German television, that the tyres were good enough to end the race.
On May 30 2011 00:19 Aristodemus wrote: Vettel was lapping in the late 20's for the last few laps before the red flag. The only reason they were faster than everyone else was because of the train being led by Sutil and Kobayashi who were also on really old tyres. As for Hamilton today being "a massive cock" i dont buy that at all. On the incidents this weekend i will go through them. In qualifying Massa blocked him on his fast lap and recieved no penalty. A few years ago Alonso at monza was penalised for blocking Massa after Ferrari proved he was slightly affected by him. McLaren could easily have proved Hamilton was held up by Massa yesterday. As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner (as he crashed into the back of Webber) and Lewis had to go over the kerb to avoid him but still couldnt. In the tunnel Massa just tried to go side by side on the marbles, he crashed on his own. It was the same with Maldonado, Lewis had the racing line on the inside and Maldonado turned in on him. People make contact all the time in F1, it is the nature of racing. There were worse incidents today i think. Kobayashi charged into the back of Sutil. DiResta smashed straight into someone at the hairpin (he also recieved an unjust penalty in my opinion). Schumacher drove straight into the back of Hamilton at the start breaking his diffuser. DiResta drove straight into the back of a D'Ambrosio breaking his diffuser They are only the ones broadcast too.
Its amazing how far hamilton's fans will go to defend him.
Massa couldn't get his car to levitate so he got blocked by massa.
Then he made a banzai move on schumi which didnt result in an accident only because Schumi is god.
Then he knocks massa at the hair pin and pushes him on the marbles in the tunnel.
Then he does the same banazi move on maldonado.
And then he plays the race card.
And finally he back pedals and claims it was a joke though it seemed obvious he was angry and clearly venting.
If that isn't being a cock throughout the weekend I don't know what is.
(Well next he could say that Perez and Petrov ruined his chance to win the race by getting injured).
Also Monaco should be off the calendar. Its going to end in tears like 94 Imola one of these days.
Massa could have let him through before casino square and it wouldnt have affected his qualifying, Schumacher is god eh? ok lol. Massa choose to try and stick it out on the outside of the tunnel which was always going to end in the wall, Hamilton did not push him.
On May 30 2011 00:21 FractalsOnFire wrote: LOL HAMILTON SUCH A TROLL!!!
EDIT:
As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner
Massa had the racing line while hamilton just charges right on the inside, Hamilton should know better.
The inside is the racing line, what Hamilton had. You have two choices, you give them room or you turn in to make certain contact. Schumacher made two moves like that today on Hamilton and Rosberg and both drivers choose the wise option of leaving room.
The regulations don't support you. The only preference comes when you are ahead. Massa was ahead. Ergo Hamilton is at fault.
Massa could have chosen to avoid the accident like Hamilton/Rosberg did earlier. The fact that he didn't means he should take at least half the responsibility for the crash.
Thats not how the regulations are written or interpreted. Massa couldn't have avoided him in any case without going straight to the wall of the hairpin. Maybe they should share the responsibility at 99% Hamilton, 1% massa.
Malonado is justifiably pissed at hamilton also.
You're clearly just as biased, so why are you commenting on other peoples bias towards their favourite drivers?
I am biased on the right side though. Hamilton drove like a douchebag and came out playing the race card. Sure I hate him but you don't see me bashing him when he doesn't deserve it.
Honesty is the best policy - a phrase that LHiar obviously never learnt.
On May 30 2011 00:21 FractalsOnFire wrote: LOL HAMILTON SUCH A TROLL!!!
EDIT:
As for today well the move at the hairpin on Massa he got up the inside and Massa turned in on him, clearly not watching the corner
Massa had the racing line while hamilton just charges right on the inside, Hamilton should know better.
The inside is the racing line, what Hamilton had. You have two choices, you give them room or you turn in to make certain contact. Schumacher made two moves like that today on Hamilton and Rosberg and both drivers choose the wise option of leaving room.
The regulations don't support you. The only preference comes when you are ahead. Massa was ahead. Ergo Hamilton is at fault.
Massa could have chosen to avoid the accident like Hamilton/Rosberg did earlier. The fact that he didn't means he should take at least half the responsibility for the crash.
Thats not how the regulations are written or interpreted. Massa couldn't have avoided him in any case without going straight to the wall of the hairpin. Maybe they should share the responsibility at 99% Hamilton, 1% massa.
On May 30 2011 00:22 KiNGxXx wrote: Yeah Vettel! Great race with these tyres! I don't think he was lucky. Alonso had no chance to overtake him.
Oh do get out He had 15 laps to do on tyres that were about to drop off the cliff and offer him no grip. he got super lucky. Alonso/Jensen deserved the win.
I wonder what they say on the British television. Vettel defended very well and there were only 8 laps to go. I'm pretty sure Vettel also would have won without the crash. Someone from Red Bull said on the German television, that the tyres were good enough to end the race.
Ah yeah my bad, I forgot that you don't have access to the UK commentary. Nah according to the testing done, those tyres were literally about to die. No way vettel could have held on imo. He was barely keeping alonso behind him and that was when his tyres were still ok.
On May 30 2011 00:34 redviper wrote: I am biased on the right side though. Hamilton drove like a douchebag and came out playing the race card. Sure I hate him but you don't see me bashing him when he doesn't deserve it.
Honesty is the best policy - a phrase that LHiar obviously never learnt.
Lewis was being open on his opinions, something very rare in these days of media training. You saying you hate Hamilton just shows where your viewpoint comes from.
On May 30 2011 00:34 redviper wrote: I am biased on the right side though. Hamilton drove like a douchebag and came out playing the race card. Sure I hate him but you don't see me bashing him when he doesn't deserve it.
Honesty is the best policy - a phrase that LHiar obviously never learnt.
"i'm biased on the right side" is so hilariously stupid I'm wondering if you aren't deliberately trolling now, either way I'll bow out of this discussion and leave you with whatever satisfaction you can take from it.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I'm not claiming he is a bad driver, but the accident in qualifying yesterday gifted him pole, the first safety car gave him track position that he otherwise wouldn't have had. The second safety car gave him new tyres that he desperately needed. In fact we just heard on the BBC commentary that Red Bulls initial plan was to put super soft tyres on vettels car at his first pitstop. They messed up and ACCIDENTLY put the harder tyre on, which allowed him to do his "60 laps" desperation strategy in the first place, otherwise he'd have had to stop again.
I'm sorry but that's just too much luck for me to put this down as an actual win for him. He's had 5 wins this season where noone could stop him really, this wasn't one of them.
On May 30 2011 00:34 redviper wrote: I am biased on the right side though. Hamilton drove like a douchebag and came out playing the race card. Sure I hate him but you don't see me bashing him when he doesn't deserve it.
Honesty is the best policy - a phrase that LHiar obviously never learnt.
"i'm biased on the right side" is so hilariously stupid I'm wondering if you aren't deliberately trolling now, either way I'll bow out of this discussion and leave you with whatever satisfaction you can take from it.
The good old, I have no real points so I'll act like I am right and agree to disagree.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
Ofcourse he drove well, but his tyres were finished. It was extremely lucky, his times were in the late 20's when the red flag happened and going slower lap by lap. The same happened to Sutil and in an instant he went from 21's to 24-25's. Button was just sitting back watching, expecting Alonso to make his move but he had tyres capable of 17's.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I'm not claiming he is a bad driver, but the accident in qualifying yesterday gifted him pole, the first safety car gave him track position that he otherwise wouldn't have had. The second safety car gave him new tyres that he desperately needed. In fact we just heard on the BBC commentary that Red Bulls initial plan was to put super soft tyres on vettels car at his first pitstop. They messed up and ACCIDENTLY put the harder tyre on, which allowed him to do his "60 laps" desperation strategy in the first place, otherwise he'd have had to stop again.
I'm sorry but that's just too much luck for me to put this down as an actual win for him. He's had 5 wins this season where noone could stop him really, this wasn't one of them.
if thats true with the supersofts its really lucky, yes ;P
But let us look at his bad luck last season, I say he deserves a good potion of good luck this time
First of all everybody seems to forget a similar incident at the same spot happened earlier in the race between Di Resta and Alguersuari. They collided the same way Massa and Hamilton did and the end result was the same. The overtaking car got a drive-through penalty since if a crash happens then it's the fault of the overtaker because the overtaking car must always make sure the pass does not cause a collision.
On May 30 2011 01:10 vennike wrote: About the Hamilton - Massa chicane incident.
First of all everybody seems to forget a similar incident at the same spot happened earlier in the race between Di Resta and Alguersuari. They collided the same way Massa and Hamilton did and the end result was the same. The overtaking car got a drive-through penalty since if a crash happens then it's the fault of the overtaker because the overtaking car must always make sure the pass does not cause a collision.
It wasnt the same, DiResta overcooked it and just smashed into the side of the car he was overtaking. He admitted as much himself. They were similar but i think DiResta's was slightly worse, hence why he lost his front wing. That said, i didnt think it was worthy of a penalty either. Later in the race when he smashed into the back of D'Ambrosio was much worse for me and i think that one was worthy of a penalty which he didnt recieve.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps.
No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it. If he and the team didn't think that they could stay first until the end, they would have changed the tires much earlier.
I don't think Massa sees Hamilton at all. He's too busy looking at the car in front of him. Watch the race from the 44th second. Hamilton sees Schumacher up the inside of him exaclty as he did on Massa and so he goes wide to avoid the crash. To suggest that you can just turn in on a car is ludicrious. If someone has the apex you have to avoid them, it's not Hamilton who created the crash it's Massa. He turned his car into him! The Maldonado incident is similar, they're side by side coming into turn one. Then Maldanado turns in early and runs into him. But Hamilton was actually lucky to finish the race. Both Massa and Maldando ended up with 0 points so clearly they got a much worse penalty than he did. In the end it was pretty fair so I don't know what he's moaning about really. He should consider himself lucky to get what he did get.
And talking of lucky.... Sebastien Vettel. This guy is fast enough without getting the rub of the green too! It's looking virtual impossible for anyone else to win this year; especially considering there's no clear rival. Exciting race though, looking forward to the next!
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
The same quality of information that had Brundle and DC ponder over whether DRS is allowed on SC restart?
And the same one where they mistakenly said that the car has to be ready 3 minutes before start when it is just that it has to have tires on at that time?
The BBC F1 team is about as bad as the Speed F1 team. And that is saying a lot.
I don't think Massa sees Hamilton at all. He's too busy looking at the car in front of him.
It doesn't matter if he did or not. Hamilton should have backed off because there was no way Massa could have made the turn if he hadn't. No one in their right mind is arguing over the Massa incident (well except Hamilton and we know how his mind is). The biggest argument is over the Williams one and the lack of a substantial penalty.
Not to mention Hamilton's whiny attempt to claim racism. Something which he has no apologized for. If he wasn't the FIA darling he would be given a DSQ for bringing the sport into disrepute.
On May 30 2011 06:03 Fruscainte wrote: Quick question: Just started watching F1 today, are there going to be more races tomorrow or was this like the final?
Hello, welcome to the wonderful world of Formula 1. The F1 season consists of a certain amount of race weekends throughout the year. Each weekend consists of 3 practice sessions, a Qualifying session, and a race which targets at 300-310 km distance (about 90-120 minutes). The first 6 races of this year's season are done and the next race will take place in 2 weeks in Canada (on a frikkin great track, i might add). Over the decades, the rules of F1 evolved into something quite difficult, yes fascinating, starting from point rankings, over race rules and to the technical aspect. Seeing you originate from the US, you might be familiar with NASCAR or ChampCars, but F1 is different in many ways. I suggest you read up on it on Wikipedia about the whole circuit and you will get to know why it generally is considered to be the world's top #1 racing series. Have fun
On May 30 2011 06:03 Fruscainte wrote: Quick question: Just started watching F1 today, are there going to be more races tomorrow or was this like the final?
Hello, welcome to the wonderful world of Formula 1. The F1 season consists of a certain amount of race weekends throughout the year. Each weekend consists of 3 practice sessions, a Qualifying session, and a race which targets at 300-310 km distance (about 90-120 minutes). The first 6 races of this year's season are done and the next race will take place in 2 weeks in Canada (on a frikkin great track, i might add). Over the decades, the rules of F1 evolved into something quite difficult, yes fascinating, starting from point rankings, over race rules and to the technical aspect. Seeing you originate from the US, you might be familiar with NASCAR or ChampCars, but F1 is different in many ways. I suggest you read up on it on Wikipedia about the whole circuit and you will get to know why it generally is considered to be the world's top #1 racing series. Have fun
Ah yes, I am quite familiar with Turnleft...er....Nascar.
Not going to lie, that post took me back a second. I was not expecting so much information!
Thanks for all of that, I suppose that makes good sense. I'll definitely go check it out. From what I saw today though, it definitely appears to be a really interesting race with all the crashing, overcoming, and a god damn Mercedes as the safety car (which I am still laughing at, that's freaking great)
The tracks, if anything like the one I saw today are really interesting. People are taking those turns at 200+ mph? That's insane.
EDIT: And these things happen all year every couple of weeks? Damn, I got something to watch between Hockey/Football at last.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
The same quality of information that had Brundle and DC ponder over whether DRS is allowed on SC restart?
I agree. Brundle and Coulthard have bumbled their way through a couple of casts this year. I don't know whether it's a lack of professionalism this year or that because Brundle now has to main cast he can't sit back and analyse the race like the used to. Whatever it is, it's not working.
I don't think Massa sees Hamilton at all. He's too busy looking at the car in front of him.
It doesn't matter if he did or not. Hamilton should have backed off because there was no way Massa could have made the turn if he hadn't. No one in their right mind is arguing over the Massa incident (well except Hamilton and we know how his mind is). The biggest argument is over the Williams one and the lack of a substantial penalty.
Not to mention Hamilton's whiny attempt to claim racism. Something which he has no apologized for. If he wasn't the FIA darling he would be given a DSQ for bringing the sport into disrepute.
Massa could have got out the way. Hamilton was right against the wall. F1 has been around for years and years and good overtakers have always made moves like that. Go watch Senna or Mansell or Prost or even Schumacher, they would all do moves like that; forcing the other driver to yield or else crash into them. Senna had some nasty crashes too when the other driver didn't move. Ok so the rules have changed but really for the worse. I agree with Hamilton; everyone wants to see racing and yet they penalise overtaking.
As for the "FIA darling" comment. Hamilton has taken huge hits by the FIA in the past (as has Alonso). Their aggressive style keeps getting them in to trouble but it's unjustified in my opinion.
I expect Hamilton to get a penalty for his comments too, which will also be unjustied. He should be allowed to speak freely.
On May 30 2011 06:03 Fruscainte wrote: Quick question: Just started watching F1 today, are there going to be more races tomorrow or was this like the final?
Hello, welcome to the wonderful world of Formula 1. The F1 season consists of a certain amount of race weekends throughout the year. Each weekend consists of 3 practice sessions, a Qualifying session, and a race which targets at 300-310 km distance (about 90-120 minutes). The first 6 races of this year's season are done and the next race will take place in 2 weeks in Canada (on a frikkin great track, i might add). Over the decades, the rules of F1 evolved into something quite difficult, yes fascinating, starting from point rankings, over race rules and to the technical aspect. Seeing you originate from the US, you might be familiar with NASCAR or ChampCars, but F1 is different in many ways. I suggest you read up on it on Wikipedia about the whole circuit and you will get to know why it generally is considered to be the world's top #1 racing series. Have fun
Ah yes, I am quite familiar with Turnleft...er....Nascar.
Not going to lie, that post took me back a second. I was not expecting so much information!
Thanks for all of that, I suppose that makes good sense. I'll definitely go check it out. From what I saw today though, it definitely appears to be a really interesting race with all the crashing, overcoming, and a god damn Mercedes as the safety car (which I am still laughing at, that's freaking great)
The tracks, if anything like the one I saw today are really interesting. People are taking those turns at 200+ mph? That's insane.
EDIT: And these things happen all year every couple of weeks? Damn, I got something to watch between Hockey/Football at last.
They take place over like half a year pretty much.
This weekends track is a special one, the Monaco Grand Prix in Monte Carlo is a street circuit like none other (well, Macau's Guia Circuit maybe, but that's not an F1 track), and actually the slowest of them all. Many tracks of the F1 are well-known tracks all around the world, each with big traditions. Legends arose, won, crashed and died on these tracks. Hit Youtube and you can see how they go with 200mph through Silverstone's Becketts, the Eau Rouge (it's just frikkin insane), or Sao Paolo's mountainous layout. These insane speeds are achieved through unbelievable downforce and grip that no other racecar achieves. It all comes down to price and money involved. Whereas you can buy and build up a whole Champcar for 50.000 bucks, an F1 gearbox alone costs that much. Annual budgets of hundreds of millions are the norm for the top teams, and with the money and dedication comes the prestige
On May 30 2011 06:29 zere wrote: This weekends track is a special one, the Monaco Grand Prix in Monte Carlo is a street circuit like none other (well, Macau's Guia Circuit maybe, but that's not an F1 track), and actually the slowest of them all. Many tracks of the F1 are well-known tracks all around the world, each with big traditions. Legends arose, won, crashed and died on these tracks. Hit Youtube and you can see how they go with 200mph through Silverstone's Becketts, the Eau Rouge (it's just frikkin insane), or Sao Paolo's mountainous layout. These insane speeds are achieved through unbelievable downforce and grip that no other racecar achieves. It all comes down to price and money involved. Whereas you can buy and build up a whole Champcar for 50.000 bucks, an F1 gearbox alone costs that much. Annual budgets of hundreds of millions are the norm for the top teams, and with the money and dedication comes the prestige
Haha, all I know is that this Hamil guy is totally out of whack and just took people out faster than Mike Tyson in a kindergarten brawl.
Feel really sorry for hamilton this season so far and last season he has had so much bad luck. Hopefully he can turn it around in canada where he won last year.
On May 30 2011 06:29 zere wrote: This weekends track is a special one, the Monaco Grand Prix in Monte Carlo is a street circuit like none other (well, Macau's Guia Circuit maybe, but that's not an F1 track), and actually the slowest of them all. Many tracks of the F1 are well-known tracks all around the world, each with big traditions. Legends arose, won, crashed and died on these tracks. Hit Youtube and you can see how they go with 200mph through Silverstone's Becketts, the Eau Rouge (it's just frikkin insane), or Sao Paolo's mountainous layout. These insane speeds are achieved through unbelievable downforce and grip that no other racecar achieves. It all comes down to price and money involved. Whereas you can buy and build up a whole Champcar for 50.000 bucks, an F1 gearbox alone costs that much. Annual budgets of hundreds of millions are the norm for the top teams, and with the money and dedication comes the prestige
Haha, all I know is that this Hamil guy is totally out of whack and just took people out faster than Mike Tyson in a kindergarten brawl.
Nah, keep watching and you will see his brilliance. Next race is HIS track, was just a rough weekend for him for various reasons. If your interested in F1 though, might i recommend watching the Senna documentary, it will blow your mind.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps.
No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it. If he and the team didn't think that they could stay first until the end, they would have changed the tires much earlier.
Or they could hold on to their p1 and try and drive insanely defensively for the rest of the race, from testing it was p much apparent that the soft tyres become incredibly bad around the 45th lap, iirc it was lap 16 when Vettel put em on (and I'm 100% sure his team wouldn't have put him on softs for the rest of the race at lap 16) meaning lap 58 when the crash occured (iirc) meaning he had maybe 5-10 more laps at race pace max. If the drop is as big as people make it out to be, Vettel would not have been able to hold his p1 from the far faster 2 behind him. You're being obtuse if you think he would've held them off without a newer set of super softs. F1 although based a large amount of driver skill, at some points comes down to sheer maths, and the times that Vettel would've posted after the drop wouldn't have been enough to keep off a blistering Alonso.
Not to mention he had qualifying handed to him on a plate. I think it's likely he would've held on to first place though. Perelli did say they expected 1 stoppers to be a possibility this race. The real shame is that Jenson didn't do the same. If he had put Prime tyres on after his first stop he wins the race.
On May 30 2011 07:29 Klive5ive wrote: Not to mention he had qualifying handed to him on a plate. I think it's likely he would've held on to first place though. Perelli did say they expected 1 stoppers to be a possibility this race. The real shame is that Jenson didn't do the same. If he had put Prime tyres on after his first stop he wins the race.
1 stoppers wouldve been a possibility sure but when a team plans for 2 stop you can't magically make your tyres better. Qualifying was a depressing thing to watch indeed though.
Button got screwed over royally and Vettel had one hell of a lucky day, Button was a lot more good humoured about the whole thing with him at the end than I would have been lol.
Entertaining race though, just a shame it had to end with a restart from the safety car, those last few laps were set to be epic.
I laughed pretty hard at the Hamilton-Massa incident in the tunnel, camera cuts to Massa's car and it's all fucked up and we all instantly know that Hamilton screwed him over in some way lol.
On May 30 2011 08:10 jello_biafra wrote: Button got screwed over royally and Vettel had one hell of a lucky day, Button was a lot more good humoured about the whole thing with him at the end than I would have been lol.
Entertaining race though, just a shame it had to end with a restart from the safety car, those last few laps were set to be epic.
I laughed pretty hard at the Hamilton-Massa incident in the tunnel, camera cuts to Massa's car and it's all fucked up and we all instantly know that Hamilton screwed him over in some way lol.
This is what happens when you try going around the outside in the tunnel on the marbles, it was Massa's fault 100%
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps.
No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it. If he and the team didn't think that they could stay first until the end, they would have changed the tires much earlier.
Or they could hold on to their p1 and try and drive insanely defensively for the rest of the race, from testing it was p much apparent that the soft tyres become incredibly bad around the 45th lap, iirc it was lap 16 when Vettel put em on (and I'm 100% sure his team wouldn't have put him on softs for the rest of the race at lap 16) meaning lap 58 when the crash occured (iirc) meaning he had maybe 5-10 more laps at race pace max. If the drop is as big as people make it out to be, Vettel would not have been able to hold his p1 from the far faster 2 behind him. You're being obtuse if you think he would've held them off without a newer set of super softs. F1 although based a large amount of driver skill, at some points comes down to sheer maths, and the times that Vettel would've posted after the drop wouldn't have been enough to keep off a blistering Alonso.
Sorry but that's just wrong. There isn't a sudden time were the tires become incredibly bad, they get worse over time. There are many factors which influence how bad the tires become, including the driving style of the driver. Vettel was already much slower than Alonso and Button, but he was still able to hold them off. Of course he could have made a mistake in the last laps, so he had a little bit luck that the accident occurred, but that wasn't the decisive factor.
After each win of Vettel you hear (especially from people from England) that he only won because of luck or the better car and that the worse driver won again. It's getting ridiculous. He had bad luck with the pit stop, maybe that was the reason why he didn't change his tires anymore and why it was so close in the end. Who knows?
While that is true of most tyres, it isnt true of these pirelli's. They absolutely fall off "the cliff" (a drivers expression to describe these tyres) in an instant. It is what has happened to Sutil today, he went from doing 21's to 25's immediately. If you had watched the races this season you would have seen it many times for many drivers. As for Vettel, he was lucky today with that red flag. His other wins were not down to luck, but he IS driving the best car on the grid. Are you denying that? All he really has to do is be consistent and beat Webber, who isnt top tier (sorry to offend the germans but Vettel is not the best driver).
Vettel was not going to be passed in the remaining six laps without making a mistake. There are two reasonable passing areas on the track and both require the following car to have good traction out of a fairly slow corner. The onboards from Alonso revealed he absolutely did not have a significant rear wheel traction advantage over Vettel. While the life of the Pirelli tyres can accurately be described as a falling off a cliff, it isn't that abrupt. You pretty much have to argue that Vettel's tyres were going to start dieing completely in the next lap or two.
Button would have won the race had he 1 stopped. He didn't and so he gave up track position and put his fate in somebody elses hands. Putting your fate in the hands of Vettel in a Red Bull is statistically a poor decision if you're a competitor of his.
As for Hamilton, I think having your country set as "England" or "United Kingdom" is just about the only way you can think him the victim in either of his incidents. You can't throw your car up the inside of somebody, make it half way or less, then complain they turned in. That isn't how passing works.
On May 30 2011 09:44 Aristodemus wrote: While that is true of most tyres, it isnt true of these pirelli's. They absolutely fall off "the cliff" (a drivers expression to describe these tyres) in an instant. It is what has happened to Sutil today, he went from doing 21's to 25's immediately. If you had watched the races this season you would have seen it many times for many drivers. As for Vettel, he was lucky today with that red flag. His other wins were not down to luck, but he IS driving the best car on the grid. Are you denying that? All he really has to do is be consistent and beat Webber, who isnt top tier (sorry to offend the germans but Vettel is not the best driver).
Of course the tires can "fall of the cliff", but there isn't a lap 45 limit (like bmml said). Why does every driver and team say in the interviews that they don't know how long the tires will hold and that they hope for the best. Someone of Red Bull said in an interview after the race that Vettel's tires were still good enough to end the race as first.
I've never said that Vettel is the best, it's probably Alonso. If you think it's Hamilton, it's pretty much because of your nationality or the British television. In the German television Vettel get's the most hype, in England it's Hamilton, in Spain it's Alonso, that's normal, but no one can really argue objectively that one is better than the other.
On May 30 2011 00:15 NikonTC wrote: How can one man be so bloody lucky. Take it to the casino Vettel, i want to see the best driver win not the most fortunate >.>
lolwhat?
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps.
No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it. If he and the team didn't think that they could stay first until the end, they would have changed the tires much earlier.
Or they could hold on to their p1 and try and drive insanely defensively for the rest of the race, from testing it was p much apparent that the soft tyres become incredibly bad around the 45th lap, iirc it was lap 16 when Vettel put em on (and I'm 100% sure his team wouldn't have put him on softs for the rest of the race at lap 16) meaning lap 58 when the crash occured (iirc) meaning he had maybe 5-10 more laps at race pace max. If the drop is as big as people make it out to be, Vettel would not have been able to hold his p1 from the far faster 2 behind him. You're being obtuse if you think he would've held them off without a newer set of super softs. F1 although based a large amount of driver skill, at some points comes down to sheer maths, and the times that Vettel would've posted after the drop wouldn't have been enough to keep off a blistering Alonso.
Sorry but that's just wrong. There isn't a sudden time were the tires become incredibly bad, they get worse over time.
I'm afraid you are wrong. There is indeed a "cliff" that the tyres drop off when the reach the end of their life. Pirelli designed the tyres that way to provide more exciting racing. The drop is HUGE (see china). I'm a little puzzled as to why you are unaware of this fact. I'm so glad we have thorough commentary teams in the UK that explain this stuff in detail.
decent report. pretty much sums up the grand prix, hamilton unfortunate and made very silly comments after the race, vettel fortunate, button/alonso robbed of victory. fans robbed of great end to a grand prix.
No offence to your country's commentary team, but I'd highly recommend watching the BBC coverage one weekend. If you find the time, watch the friday free practice sessions as well, because the BBC even has a team that commentates those (which i'm not sure other nations coverage does?) and you learn a lot.
The UK coverage is in NO WAY biased towards Hamilton, and we have two ex-drivers as our main commentary team who in fact routinely get accused of being too harsh on Hamilton, and were pretty scathing of him during the race yesterday. So you're wrong there too.
Totally agree with NikonTC. Now I just want to throw this out there - Hamilton making silly comments. He does this after every race saying that everyone is a worse driver compared to him and that it's ONLY because their cars are better which is BS. He is an incredibly sore loser.
On May 30 2011 15:50 Lachrymose wrote: As for Hamilton, I think having your country set as "England" or "United Kingdom" is just about the only way you can think him the victim in either of his incidents. You can't throw your car up the inside of somebody, make it half way or less, then complain they turned in. That isn't how passing works.
Yeah just ignore the evidence and assume bias.
"If you no longer go for a gap, then you're no longer a racing driver"- Aryton Senna Hamilton puts his car on the apex and gives the other driver a choice, yield or crash into me. Exactly as Senna would have done and exactly as Schumi would have done (and did do on lap1).
Massa made a mistake, he came off the racing live and tried to dive infront of Hamilton. Unfortunately there was another car in front of him so Massa has nowhere to go. It's not Hamilton's fault that Massa can't run wide and so hits him. It's AT LEAST 50/50. So why does Massa not get a penalty too? Then the Maldonado one is even worse. DRS gets Hamilton side by side along the pit straight. He chooses the inside line and Maldonado just runs into him. That one was especially ludicrous.
I tell you what Senna would've hated modern F1 and would've been even more annoyed than Hamilton was today.
I don't think I've defended Hamilton once and would like to not be accused of such bias due to my country of origin, admitadely if Kubica was racing this year I'd be massively biased towards him but hes Kubica ^^.
Also it isn't with the Pirellis from everything I've heard / seen this season the tyres do completely drop at a certain point, with tyres which have "dropped off" adding 4+ seconds per lap. I completely believe this would've been enough for Alonso (and probably Button) to overtake Vettel, admitadely we haven't seen much of Vettels defending this season due to him having the far superior car and being able to basically speed away from other front runners so maybe I'm wrong.
That said I don't think anyone of the top drivers can defend a 4-5 second disadvantage for 5~ laps (thats guesstimating that Vettels tyres were 52 laps old at the red flag and would have had to hold on for over 60 laps for him to stay ahead).
EDIT: while writing this I realised that the red flag was at lap 69, not 58 like I previously thought. This could mean that Vettel may have been able to hold but either way I 100% believe we were robbed of the event the whole race was building up to and I that Alonso and Button would've gotten through if the tyres work how I've been told they do.
It isn't at least 50/50. In that hairpin the racing line is the outside. A wide entry and late apex is/can be the racing line. An early apex is never the racing line. Massa was on the racing line. Hamilton was off the racing line.
The gap Hamilton dived into was not big enough for a formula 1 car. He, while taking the shorter, more direct route which arrives at the apex earlier (for a slower overall corner - hence not racing line) still only made it midway along Massa's sidepod. This is not reasonably close enough to have a dive and make the other guy yeild. This is driving into sombody.
You can clearly see how far back he is. You can clearly see an F1 car does not having the steering lock to make a line like that, he rides into the side of Massa the whole way around the corner. I'm not ignoring the evidence and assuming bias, the evidence is very damning. The only explaination for thinking he is innocent or it's 50/50 is bias.
Against Maldonado Hamilton again dives at an apex, again, an apex that is always going to disappear. When contact is made Hamilton (despite, again, taking the shortest route to the apex) makes contact to the sidepod. This time however the contact is at the back of the sidepod right in front of the rear wheel of Maldonado. This is absolutely not far enough alongside for people to be yeilding. It is absolutely diving and leaves Maldonado nowhere to go.
"Drive off the track of I'm crashing into you" is not passing. If you want the inside line you have to get alongside somebody - wheel to wheel, if you're hitting the middle of their car you're not close enough to claim the inside.
*edit* I don't know if it needs to be noted or not, but in the tunnel Hamilton was 100% in the right and Massa wrecked his car himself being an idiot. I'm speaking purely about the hairpin vs Massa and turn one vs Maldonado.
"The tunnel of danger" never understand why drivers think about risking the outside line in the tunnel, that's the place you should always chill unless you want to crash, I hope Monaco is never removed from the calendar as it's always an interesting race though it can be ruined by one accident moreso than any other race.
Really glad that Sutil managed to get 7th place, don't think he would've gotten that high if it wasn't for his crash as he had so many cars behind him while his tyres were pretty much dead, but the first thing I thought when Sutil went out there and Alguesari(sp?) went into Petrov and the wall was Belgium 1998, but thankfully that didn't happen.
Also think that Di Resta could've gotten into the points if it wasnt for his mistake that lead to the penalty.
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps.
No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it. If he and the team didn't think that they could stay first until the end, they would have changed the tires much earlier.
Or they could hold on to their p1 and try and drive insanely defensively for the rest of the race, from testing it was p much apparent that the soft tyres become incredibly bad around the 45th lap, iirc it was lap 16 when Vettel put em on (and I'm 100% sure his team wouldn't have put him on softs for the rest of the race at lap 16) meaning lap 58 when the crash occured (iirc) meaning he had maybe 5-10 more laps at race pace max. If the drop is as big as people make it out to be, Vettel would not have been able to hold his p1 from the far faster 2 behind him. You're being obtuse if you think he would've held them off without a newer set of super softs. F1 although based a large amount of driver skill, at some points comes down to sheer maths, and the times that Vettel would've posted after the drop wouldn't have been enough to keep off a blistering Alonso.
Sorry but that's just wrong. There isn't a sudden time were the tires become incredibly bad, they get worse over time.
I'm afraid you are wrong. There is indeed a "cliff" that the tyres drop off when the reach the end of their life. Pirelli designed the tyres that way to provide more exciting racing. The drop is HUGE (see china). I'm a little puzzled as to why you are unaware of this fact. I'm so glad we have thorough commentary teams in the UK that explain this stuff in detail.
decent report. pretty much sums up the grand prix, hamilton unfortunate and made very silly comments after the race, vettel fortunate, button/alonso robbed of victory. fans robbed of great end to a grand prix.
No offence to your country's commentary team, but I'd highly recommend watching the BBC coverage one weekend. If you find the time, watch the friday free practice sessions as well, because the BBC even has a team that commentates those (which i'm not sure other nations coverage does?) and you learn a lot.
The UK coverage is in NO WAY biased towards Hamilton, and we have two ex-drivers as our main commentary team who in fact routinely get accused of being too harsh on Hamilton, and were pretty scathing of him during the race yesterday. So you're wrong there too.
looks like I said it wrong. I meant that there isn't an exact timing when they get really bad (like lap 45), it depends on a lot of factors when they start to drop off ("the cliff").
"decent report. pretty much sums up the grand prix, hamilton unfortunate and made very silly comments after the race, vettel fortunate, button/alonso robbed of victory. fans robbed of great end to a grand prix." That's exactly what I'm talking about: They were robbed of the chance to overtake Vettel, not of victory. The other points are good, but the question is how much luck/bad luck Vettel and Hamilton had. And even if people from BBC criticize Hamilton, they talk more about him than about other drivers, which is of course totally understandable, because it's mostly for people from the UK. The article has also some of the Hamilton hype I meant.
German television is pretty good in regards to Formula 1. All practice sessions are shown and we also have an ex-driver as a commentator (he isn't well known, though) and for example Niki Lauda as an analyst, who especially praised Vettel for that race.
(My English is bad, so it's not easy to argue about that topic)
On May 30 2011 21:39 Lachrymose wrote: It isn't at least 50/50. In that hairpin the racing line is the outside. A wide entry and late apex is/can be the racing line. An early apex is never the racing line. Massa was on the racing line. Hamilton was off the racing line.
You can clearly see how far back he is. You can clearly see an F1 car does not having the steering lock to make a line like that, he rides into the side of Massa the whole way around the corner. I'm not ignoring the evidence and assuming bias
You are since you ignored the reason that Hamilton had to take that line... Massa squeezed him into it. If Massa follows the line that the Red Bull in front of him takes then there is no accident but he doesn't he cuts across leaving Hamilton a passenger to the accident. Hamilton even breaks but there's nowhere for him to go.
On May 30 2011 21:39 Lachrymose wrote: Against Maldonado Hamilton again dives at an apex, again, an apex that is always going to disappear. When contact is made Hamilton (despite, again, taking the shortest route to the apex) makes contact to the sidepod. This time however the contact is at the back of the sidepod right in front of the rear wheel of Maldonado. This is absolutely not far enough alongside for people to be yeilding. It is absolutely diving and leaves Maldonado nowhere to go.
That's the whole point of overtaking. Putting your car on a line so that the car in front has to take a different line. Seriously go watch some older races, this happened 50 times a race and no-one ever got penalised.
Have to admit, as much as I enjoy Hamilton's racing skills when he is on form, he's completely and utterly wrong about that Massa incident. No idea how anyone can defend him for it.
Very disappointed with his maturity and reaction to it after the race as well.
Some of you people just dont understand how overtaking is done, the "racing line" when overtaking is not the optimal line for speed. It is the inside, the apex, essentially blocking your opponent or making him drive around the outside. If you have it, 9 times out of 10 you have the corner. Drivers realise this and yield or turn in and crash. Which is of more benefit? As for me only thinking Hamilton is the best because I am English, well that is just bullshit. You go on to say Alonso is the best, Lewis beat Alonso as his team-mate in his rookie year. Ofcourse there is opinion in this matter, but to dismiss my views as nationalistic bias is foolish. In regard to the two penalties recieved, like klive points out above, every single race there are incidents with contact. McLaren and more recently Hamilton seem to get treated worse than others. Take these examples:- 1. Kobayashi on Sutil
Overtakes because of it, causes massive damage. No penalty.
2. Many other incidents from monaco too, such as DiResta and Schumacher running into the back of D'Ambrosio and Hamilton breaking diffusers.
3. Previous races include Webber taking out Hamilton even though Lewis left him room (something Maldonado did not). No penalty.
Vettel dropping it trying to overtake Jenson and taking him out. No penalty.
4.As well as hundreds of other incidents every season that do not get punished.
Aristodemus, you have very good points there, and I have to agree with you on these, and probably no one will deny you these incidents. I fully agree with you. However, they are, opposed to what you are saying, completely unrelated to the HAM-MAS incident from yesterday. Just because there are many unfair maneuvers which go unpunished doesnt mean Hamilton (or any other driver) should be able to get away with this maneuver. We should talk about all the other reckless driving that has been done instead of Hamiltons then.
So now im not a "massive cock"? Hamiltons frustration is from years of this, not just one race. In fact look at those pictures and i will talk you through what happened. In the first set Lewis moves for the inside (1) while Massa is on his normal line. He then sees Lewis making a move and turns in to block (2) but it is already to late for that, Hamiltons car has nowhere to go now. He does the only thing he can which is take to the curb as much as possible in (3+4) and Massa runs into the back of Webber, which is probably more deserving of a penalty but still not a penalty. The second set just emphasize the same point, tell me, after he decides to make a move what can he do? Should we ban overtaking at the hairpin? No, drivers have to accept they lost position and leave room, something Hamilton always does.
staying in front of Alonso for 15 rounds with fucked up tires is luck ?
His tyres were not fucked up. The prime tyres last ~45 laps according to their testing. Vettel was on lap 48. His tyres were ABOUT to become fucked up and "drop off the cliff" as the drivers put it. Try to pay attention to the information you're given. BBC commentary explain all this very well, so I shouldn't have to.
Then explain to me why the Button / Alonso were 2+ secs faster each round. He did a pretty good job at not destroying his tires the 40 rounds before, you should look into this too.
You don't have access to the quality of information that the UK audience does. You have my sympathy but not my agreement
im not saying youre wrong or something, im just saying he did a pretty good job this race. the same as in Barcelona, where he defended Hamilton like a boss. I dont know if he would have won the race 100 % under normal circumstances but to blame it purely on luck would be wrong.
But he should lose a few races in the future, I want the awesome last race finish like last season again
I dont think anyone is saying he didn't race a good race, he qualified at blistering pace and was on top all weekend. That said the crash obviously played right into his hands, it was the only reason he held onto pole. Surely the fact that Button / Alonso were lapping faster and faster each lap proves how robbed we were of the last 10 laps.
No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it. If he and the team didn't think that they could stay first until the end, they would have changed the tires much earlier.
Or they could hold on to their p1 and try and drive insanely defensively for the rest of the race, from testing it was p much apparent that the soft tyres become incredibly bad around the 45th lap, iirc it was lap 16 when Vettel put em on (and I'm 100% sure his team wouldn't have put him on softs for the rest of the race at lap 16) meaning lap 58 when the crash occured (iirc) meaning he had maybe 5-10 more laps at race pace max. If the drop is as big as people make it out to be, Vettel would not have been able to hold his p1 from the far faster 2 behind him. You're being obtuse if you think he would've held them off without a newer set of super softs. F1 although based a large amount of driver skill, at some points comes down to sheer maths, and the times that Vettel would've posted after the drop wouldn't have been enough to keep off a blistering Alonso.
Sorry but that's just wrong. There isn't a sudden time were the tires become incredibly bad, they get worse over time.
I'm afraid you are wrong. There is indeed a "cliff" that the tyres drop off when the reach the end of their life. Pirelli designed the tyres that way to provide more exciting racing. The drop is HUGE (see china). I'm a little puzzled as to why you are unaware of this fact. I'm so glad we have thorough commentary teams in the UK that explain this stuff in detail.
decent report. pretty much sums up the grand prix, hamilton unfortunate and made very silly comments after the race, vettel fortunate, button/alonso robbed of victory. fans robbed of great end to a grand prix.
No offence to your country's commentary team, but I'd highly recommend watching the BBC coverage one weekend. If you find the time, watch the friday free practice sessions as well, because the BBC even has a team that commentates those (which i'm not sure other nations coverage does?) and you learn a lot.
The UK coverage is in NO WAY biased towards Hamilton, and we have two ex-drivers as our main commentary team who in fact routinely get accused of being too harsh on Hamilton, and were pretty scathing of him during the race yesterday. So you're wrong there too.
So, you never listened to the german (or other) broadcast but you're saying the BBC one is the only good one? That's really ignorant. We have the coverage of the whole weekend including all training sessions on 3 (!) TV stations.
Martin Brundle did an interview on his gridwalk with the motorsport director of Pirelli (Paul Hembrey) who said a one stop strategy could be used in Monaco. The gridwalks of Brundle are awesome btw! :D
"It will never be known whether he could have held off Alonso and Button had the race not been stopped." That's taken of your link to the blog.
On May 31 2011 00:35 Aristodemus wrote: You go on to say Alonso is the best, Lewis beat Alonso as his team-mate in his rookie year.
They both had the same amount of points if I remember correctly, so you can't really judge from that. I picked Alonso because of his consistency and because he has two championships, but like I said, I'm not really sure about it. I feel like Vettel is the fastest driver and Alonso is the one who makes the fewest mistakes while being good in every aspect of the race.
On May 31 2011 00:05 zere wrote: I'm realizing what kind of massive cocks some of you are and how dangerous you would be on a public road. + Show Spoiler +
How could anyone even consider sympathizing with Hamilton in this situation?
You just don't do something like that when you are racing in Monaco...
How can you not see this. Picture 1 = Massa on the racing line, Hamilton inside him. Picture 2 = Massa turning into Hamilton leaving him no room? What you're saying is that in picture 1 Hamilton should not be there at all. He is not allowed to take that line because Massa is in front of him?! That's not racing it's a procession.
Look at this pass by Jean Alesi. He comes from even further back than Hamilton but the guy yields.
Now I know Massa had cars in front of him that's why it was complicated and I wouldn't blame Massa either. But to say Hamilton in a clearly faster car must NOT be where he is on picture1 is to suggest that racing is no longer allowed. It wasn't clever because they collided but it's both drivers fault and shouldn't be penalised.
On May 31 2011 00:35 Aristodemus wrote: You go on to say Alonso is the best, Lewis beat Alonso as his team-mate in his rookie year.
They both had the same amount of points if I remember correctly, so you can't really judge from that. I picked Alonso because of his consistency and because he has two championships, but like I said, I'm not really sure about it. I feel like Vettel is the fastest driver and Alonso is the one who makes the fewest mistakes while being good in every aspect of the race.
Lewis finished above Alonso in the champonship, that is beating him. He was also a mile ahead with two races left but suffered from a bad team mistake in china where he was told to stay out until his tyres were down to the canvas, and a broken gearbox in brazil. As for Vettel being the fastest, how highly do you rate Webber then? Because Vettel only just beat him last year and in fact only surpassed him on the last race. Often he has been outclassed by Webber last year, and Webber struggled to beat Heidfeld. If you read my post a few pages back i said that Hamilton and Alonso are too close to call but they are both superior to Vettel. If Vettel ever signs for one of the two top teams you will see his true speed.
vettel was very unlucky last year and also made a lot of rookie mistakes. the last races in 2010 were brilliant and in 2011 he hasn´t done any mistake by now, although there was pressure. He is becoming a great driver for sure. Hamilton on the other hand i'm not so sure about anymore. He likes to see himself as the new Senna, but I just don't feel it.
Vettel = fucking imbalanced. The car is also great but that's not the explanation. Webber is beatable as well. Yes, Vettel also had a good portion of luck in Monaco. So what?
On May 31 2011 02:50 duckii wrote: vettel was very unlucky last year and also made a lot of rookie mistakes. the last races in 2010 were brilliant and in 2011 he hasn´t done any mistake by now, although there was pressure. He is becoming a great driver for sure. Hamilton on the other hand i'm not so sure about anymore. He likes to see himself as the new Senna, but I just don't feel it.
Rookie mistakes in his fourth year? lol. He is a big fan of Senna, thats why he uses the helmet.
On May 31 2011 02:50 duckii wrote: vettel was very unlucky last year and also made a lot of rookie mistakes. the last races in 2010 were brilliant and in 2011 he hasn´t done any mistake by now, although there was pressure. He is becoming a great driver for sure. Hamilton on the other hand i'm not so sure about anymore. He likes to see himself as the new Senna, but I just don't feel it.
Rookie mistakes in his fourth year? lol. He is a big fan of Senna, thats why he uses the helmet.
I said they were rookie mistakes, not that he was a rookie last year. Didn't try to defend Vettel there :p But you must admit that he is learning from his mistakes
He has driven well this year, but that Red Bull is an amazing car and Webber is probably only par to Massa. Many people in here are claiming him to be the fastest driver though, when in truth he isnt. Was Button the fastest driver in F1 in 2009 when he won 6 in 7? I fully agree he has improved, drivers often do once they achieve their first championship. If he dominates Webber throughout the entire season and proves that he can fight through the pack when he qualifies lower down the grid, then I will start taking these claims more seriously. Until then, Alonso and Hamilton are top dogs and their wages/teams reflect that. I put my ranking of 1# Hamilton 2# Alonso 3# Kubica 4# Vettel earlier and that is still the case i think. Whether Kubica fully recovers though, we will have to wait and see.
On May 31 2011 00:35 Aristodemus wrote: 3. Previous races include Webber taking out Hamilton even though Lewis left him room (something Maldonado did not). No penalty. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynp28-jt8J0
Damn I remember that now. It basically got written off as a "racing incident" at the time. I am happy to admit that I'm a Lewis fan, so there is some bias but seriously, I can sympathise with his feeling that he is being persecuted a bit because that was essentially a carbon copy of Monaco and nothing came of it.
On May 31 2011 06:19 Aristodemus wrote: He has driven well this year, but that Red Bull is an amazing car and Webber is probably only par to Massa. Many people in here are claiming him to be the fastest driver though, when in truth he isnt. Was Button the fastest driver in F1 in 2009 when he won 6 in 7? I fully agree he has improved, drivers often do once they achieve their first championship. If he dominates Webber throughout the entire season and proves that he can fight through the pack when he qualifies lower down the grid, then I will start taking these claims more seriously. Until then, Alonso and Hamilton are top dogs and their wages/teams reflect that. I put my ranking of 1# Hamilton 2# Alonso 3# Kubica 4# Vettel earlier and that is still the case i think. Whether Kubica fully recovers though, we will have to wait and see.
Why do you talk like everything you say is a fact. It's your opinion and it's impossible to argue objectively about it or do you really think that your arguments will change anyone's opinion? I think we can stop now.
On May 31 2011 06:19 Aristodemus wrote: He has driven well this year, but that Red Bull is an amazing car and Webber is probably only par to Massa. Many people in here are claiming him to be the fastest driver though, when in truth he isnt. Was Button the fastest driver in F1 in 2009 when he won 6 in 7? I fully agree he has improved, drivers often do once they achieve their first championship. If he dominates Webber throughout the entire season and proves that he can fight through the pack when he qualifies lower down the grid, then I will start taking these claims more seriously. Until then, Alonso and Hamilton are top dogs and their wages/teams reflect that. I put my ranking of 1# Hamilton 2# Alonso 3# Kubica 4# Vettel earlier and that is still the case i think. Whether Kubica fully recovers though, we will have to wait and see.
Why do you talk like everything you say is a fact. It's your opinion and it's impossible to argue objectively about it or do you really think that your arguments will change anyone's opinion? I think we can stop now.
"No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it"
"Sorry but that's just wrong. There isn't a sudden time were the tires become incredibly bad, they get worse over time" (while the second sentence is right, you misread his quote)
"Vettel is the fastest driver and Alonso is the one who makes the fewest mistakes while being good in every aspect of the race."
Do you understand what hypocrite means?
As for Lachrymose, I agree no two incidents are the same. They were similar however, neither were worthy of a penalty and that is my point.
"What China, Spain and now Monaco have all suggested is that actually on race day the McLaren's pace is at least as good as the Red Bulls, maybe better. What is also apparent is that with all the overtaking now possible (though not at Monaco), pole position per se is not as vital as it was. "
quoting BBCMark Hughes (Includes full analysis of the Monaco decisions by McLaren)
He ended it with these sentiments: "If it ever comes to a stage where I had to pull back and just cruise around, that would not excite me and I probably wouldn't stay around for that. "I am here to race and win. If I have to lose that passion then it blows all racing."
On May 31 2011 00:35 Aristodemus wrote: Some of you people just dont understand how overtaking is done, the "racing line" when overtaking is not the optimal line for speed. It is the inside, the apex, essentially blocking your opponent or making him drive around the outside. If you have it, 9 times out of 10 you have the corner. Drivers realise this and yield or turn in and crash. Which is of more benefit? As for me only thinking Hamilton is the best because I am English, well that is just bullshit. You go on to say Alonso is the best, Lewis beat Alonso as his team-mate in his rookie year. Ofcourse there is opinion in this matter, but to dismiss my views as nationalistic bias is foolish. In regard to the two penalties recieved, like klive points out above, every single race there are incidents with contact. McLaren and more recently Hamilton seem to get treated worse than others. Take these examples:- 1. Kobayashi on Sutil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApoXq41ZK5U Overtakes because of it, causes massive damage. No penalty.
2. Many other incidents from monaco too, such as DiResta and Schumacher running into the back of D'Ambrosio and Hamilton breaking diffusers.
4.As well as hundreds of other incidents every season that do not get punished.
Correct. The "fastest" line is not always the best line when it comes to defending an overtaking maneuver because it leaves you vulnerable to things like late braking on the inside. I'm not justifying Hamilton's move because it seemed a bit impatient, especially with Webber right in front like that, but it seemed like Massa kind of got caught out and chose an in-between line that was neither good for speed nor good for defending strongly.
In any case, it's nice to see some real debate in this thread :D
On May 31 2011 01:38 Fym wrote: Hamilton going to ferrari next season, you heard it here first. PS Adrian Newey = living legend
With Alonso there til '16? I don't think so
Hoping for a good McLaren showing this week to make up for Monaco!
Yeah I'd put money on Hamy never going to Ferrari.... Alonso isn't much older than Lewis and would never be his team mate... so yeah... there is more chance of him going to Red Bull but I can't see him leaving McLaren the way the season is going.
hamilton has his whole team built around him so i doubt he will leave maclaren any time soon and he is good friends with button so i assume this duo is going to last for a few more years.
Well I guess the race tomorrow is in the hands of the weatherman. Not sure if McLaren made the right call, but saying that I dont think they would have been much faster, probably 3rd was the maximum for Lewis today. Love Canada though, awesome track and it should be very entertaining in the race once again Ferrari looking very strong this weekend, if it is dry I think Alonso will win.
On June 12 2011 03:06 Aristodemus wrote: Well I guess the race tomorrow is in the hands of the weatherman. Not sure if McLaren made the right call, but saying that I dont think they would have been much faster, probably 3rd was the maximum for Lewis today. Love Canada though, awesome track and it should be very entertaining in the race once again Ferrari looking very strong this weekend, if it is dry I think Alonso will win.
I don't buy into that I think if they hadn't gabled then they could have taken pole without too much difficulty... that said quali isn't as important this year and if it does rain then they will look like geniouses. But I was dissapointed that Vettel was on pole... again... but I'm glad to see Masa up there... lets hope Lewis can make it work for him in the race where we all know McLaren have had so far the best race pace.
On May 31 2011 06:19 Aristodemus wrote: He has driven well this year, but that Red Bull is an amazing car and Webber is probably only par to Massa. Many people in here are claiming him to be the fastest driver though, when in truth he isnt. Was Button the fastest driver in F1 in 2009 when he won 6 in 7? I fully agree he has improved, drivers often do once they achieve their first championship. If he dominates Webber throughout the entire season and proves that he can fight through the pack when he qualifies lower down the grid, then I will start taking these claims more seriously. Until then, Alonso and Hamilton are top dogs and their wages/teams reflect that. I put my ranking of 1# Hamilton 2# Alonso 3# Kubica 4# Vettel earlier and that is still the case i think. Whether Kubica fully recovers though, we will have to wait and see.
Why do you talk like everything you say is a fact. It's your opinion and it's impossible to argue objectively about it or do you really think that your arguments will change anyone's opinion? I think we can stop now.
"No it wasn't the only reason why he won the race. That's just speculation, stop it"
"Sorry but that's just wrong. There isn't a sudden time were the tires become incredibly bad, they get worse over time" (while the second sentence is right, you misread his quote)
"Vettel is the fastest driver and Alonso is the one who makes the fewest mistakes while being good in every aspect of the race."
Do you understand what hypocrite means?
I didn't read the thread for some weeks, so sorry for the late answer. I understand what hypocrite means.
about the quotes above: I don't know why you chose them, because the only quote which could show that I'm a hypocrite is the third, but you missed the "I feel like" at the start. So it's an opinion not a fact.
The first quote: It wasn't the only reason, everybody knows that. You can say that you think it's the main reason, but you said that's the "only" reason.
On June 12 2011 03:06 Aristodemus wrote: Well I guess the race tomorrow is in the hands of the weatherman. Not sure if McLaren made the right call, but saying that I dont think they would have been much faster, probably 3rd was the maximum for Lewis today. Love Canada though, awesome track and it should be very entertaining in the race once again Ferrari looking very strong this weekend, if it is dry I think Alonso will win.
I don't buy into that I think if they hadn't gabled then they could have taken pole without too much difficulty... that said quali isn't as important this year and if it does rain then they will look like geniouses. But I was dissapointed that Vettel was on pole... again... but I'm glad to see Masa up there... lets hope Lewis can make it work for him in the race where we all know McLaren have had so far the best race pace.
Did you watch FP3 today? Its pretty clear the Ferrari and RedBull are fastest, maybe Hamilton could have pulled off something miraculous but it looked doubtful. Lets hope for rain. Race pace McLaren look decent though.
On June 12 2011 03:06 Aristodemus wrote: Well I guess the race tomorrow is in the hands of the weatherman. Not sure if McLaren made the right call, but saying that I dont think they would have been much faster, probably 3rd was the maximum for Lewis today. Love Canada though, awesome track and it should be very entertaining in the race once again Ferrari looking very strong this weekend, if it is dry I think Alonso will win.
I don't buy into that I think if they hadn't gabled then they could have taken pole without too much difficulty... that said quali isn't as important this year and if it does rain then they will look like geniouses. But I was dissapointed that Vettel was on pole... again... but I'm glad to see Masa up there... lets hope Lewis can make it work for him in the race where we all know McLaren have had so far the best race pace.
Did you watch FP3 today? Its pretty clear the Ferrari and RedBull are fastest, maybe Hamilton could have pulled off something miraculous but it looked doubtful. Lets hope for rain. Race pace McLaren look decent though.
I was at work all day and was only able to catch it via a live blog on the auto sport app... but didn't they set it up for 'rain' in FP3?
Also you have to bear in mind that not all the teams will have the engine's at full power pre-race/quali...
On June 12 2011 03:06 Aristodemus wrote: Well I guess the race tomorrow is in the hands of the weatherman. Not sure if McLaren made the right call, but saying that I dont think they would have been much faster, probably 3rd was the maximum for Lewis today. Love Canada though, awesome track and it should be very entertaining in the race once again Ferrari looking very strong this weekend, if it is dry I think Alonso will win.
I don't buy into that I think if they hadn't gabled then they could have taken pole without too much difficulty... that said quali isn't as important this year and if it does rain then they will look like geniouses. But I was dissapointed that Vettel was on pole... again... but I'm glad to see Masa up there... lets hope Lewis can make it work for him in the race where we all know McLaren have had so far the best race pace.
Did you watch FP3 today? Its pretty clear the Ferrari and RedBull are fastest, maybe Hamilton could have pulled off something miraculous but it looked doubtful. Lets hope for rain. Race pace McLaren look decent though.
I was at work all day and was only able to catch it via a live blog on the auto sport app... but didn't they set it up for 'rain' in FP3?
Also you have to bear in mind that not all the teams will have the engine's at full power pre-race/quali...
I think they changed it after FP3 but I am not sure.
Edit: Just hearing the teams will need to have new exhausts from Silverstone on, 100%
On June 12 2011 03:06 Aristodemus wrote: Well I guess the race tomorrow is in the hands of the weatherman. Not sure if McLaren made the right call, but saying that I dont think they would have been much faster, probably 3rd was the maximum for Lewis today. Love Canada though, awesome track and it should be very entertaining in the race once again Ferrari looking very strong this weekend, if it is dry I think Alonso will win.
I don't buy into that I think if they hadn't gabled then they could have taken pole without too much difficulty... that said quali isn't as important this year and if it does rain then they will look like geniouses. But I was dissapointed that Vettel was on pole... again... but I'm glad to see Masa up there... lets hope Lewis can make it work for him in the race where we all know McLaren have had so far the best race pace.
Did you watch FP3 today? Its pretty clear the Ferrari and RedBull are fastest, maybe Hamilton could have pulled off something miraculous but it looked doubtful. Lets hope for rain. Race pace McLaren look decent though.
I was at work all day and was only able to catch it via a live blog on the auto sport app... but didn't they set it up for 'rain' in FP3?
Also you have to bear in mind that not all the teams will have the engine's at full power pre-race/quali...
I think they changed it after FP3 but I am not sure.
Edit: Just hearing the teams will need to have new exhausts from Silverstone on, 100%
All credits to the BBC coverage, love it, but on RTL we have the mighty Lauda...
They are showing a film with Rosberg explaining the different safety features of a F1 car, but eventually he admits he doesn't know where exactly the fire extinguisher is located. Lauda:"Doesn't matter where it is, it's just important that it activates so you don't end up looking like me."
This is so hard to call, they have only had one session in the wet this year. Vettel crashed in it too, with McLaren not even running. Will anyone risk starting on intermediates? How many front wings will be left at turn one? Is Alguesari doing the right thing to start from the pits changing to full wet set-up? I am going to call a Hamilton win With Sutil and Rosberg being dark horses to do really well. Massa to go backwards fast also.
Well, genious tactical move. If you cant continue, at least crush Vettels advantage by causing Safety Car. Series of incredibly stupid moves by Hamilton
Regardless of his driving talent, Hamilton has always been so infuriatingly arrogant and woefully insecure and it seems that, for whatever reason, it's recently begun to spill over into his racetrack performances more than ever before.
When incidents continue to happen at different courses, with different drivers, with different car setups and for different reasons, then it begins to narrow down to one common variable. Hello, Lewis.
I know we're in an era of increased safety and etc. but it's disappointing to see a safety car deployed whenever rain gets heavier these days. I miss the old days of chaos in rainy races, 1998 Belgian GP is unforgettable.
On June 13 2011 02:37 Asshat wrote: I know we're in an era of increased safety and etc. but it's disappointing to see a safety car deployed whenever rain gets heavier these days. I miss the old days of chaos in rainy races, 1998 Belgian GP is unforgettable.
i miss those days too, today they care too much about this, and dont let drivers show their true skill driving.
On June 13 2011 02:37 Asshat wrote: I know we're in an era of increased safety and etc. but it's disappointing to see a safety car deployed whenever rain gets heavier these days. I miss the old days of chaos in rainy races, 1998 Belgian GP is unforgettable.
i miss those days too, today they care too much about this, and dont let drivers show their true skill driving.
has nothing to do with skill under these conditions, driving in this rain is just pure insanity, i agree that its sometimes a little bit tooo safe, but in this case its the correct decision.
Man...8 Years Ago i liked the F1 so much more then now..Safety Car because of Rain is bad imo because its not needed...let them race until it is simply impossible to race.If that happens,cancel the race.
On June 13 2011 03:00 Aristodemus wrote: It was the correct decision to red flag, but the wrong decision to start with the safety car.
I think it's easy to say this as a spectator but from a stewards point of view, you need to be proactive rather than reactive and they had no way of knowing exactly how the first lap was going to go (though it doesn't take much imagination)
Drivers have said that the clutch part was that they simply couldn't see anything and in a scenario like this, drivers safety is paramount.
As a spectator, I'm a bit gutted as well but it's a legit argument.
On June 13 2011 03:00 Aristodemus wrote: It was the correct decision to red flag, but the wrong decision to start with the safety car.
I think it's easy to say this as a spectator but from a stewards point of view, you need to be proactive rather than reactive and they had no way of knowing exactly how the first lap was going to go (though it doesn't take much imagination)
Drivers have said that the clutch part was that they simply couldn't see anything and in a scenario like this, drivers safety is paramount.
As a spectator, I'm a bit gutted as well but it's a legit argument.
Each tyre can kick up 40 litres of water per second, its always been that way with visibility. If the tyres are not aquaplaning its fine. They are the best of the best, they can deal with it.
A Finnish caster in Canada talked to some judge (dont remember name duh) and he said that they might drive few laps behind safecar, but its unlikely that race is going to continue so fuu I wished for rain but not like this T_T Good for Kobayashi though 2nd place
And the race will start again, gonna be interesting to see how long it will last before another downpour stops it, hoping that won't happen and the race will actually finish.
On June 13 2011 05:46 Dragoon.eD wrote: Poor Vettel, losing his advantage all the time. Already about 30 seconds lost to Safety Car coming out again and again.
It depends. I thought he got lucky with the 2nd SC. Gave him a great opportunity to change to intermediates.
Great race by Button, prevailed even though everything went bad for him. Pretty sad for Vettel though, got shafted pretty hard by all the Safety Car phases.
On June 13 2011 06:05 Vernom wrote: Button will be punished anyways.
For the Hamilton incident? He was at fault I thought but it was just a racing incident, get over it. If you are saying that about Alonso then he served a drive-through penalty.
Button winning on 4:04:39 longest f1 race in history I would guess (not sure how long the old ones were), bit sad that Massa took the 6th place off Kobayashi on the line and that Di Resta went out with so little to go, crazy race this one.
On June 13 2011 06:05 Vernom wrote: Button will be punished anyways.
For the Hamilton incident? He was at fault I thought but it was just a racing incident, get over it. If you are saying that about Alonso then he served a drive-through penalty.
Okay, understeering and driving into somebody as a racing incident is one thing, but pushing somebody into a wall? seriously?
Button's drive through was for speeding behind the safety car, not the collision with Alonso.
Amazing race, fantastic drive from Button to clinch the win at the end from Vettel. Great drive from Michael Schumacher as well, was hoping he got a podium finish though.
On June 13 2011 06:05 Vernom wrote: Button will be punished anyways.
For the Hamilton incident? He was at fault I thought but it was just a racing incident, get over it. If you are saying that about Alonso then he served a drive-through penalty.
Okay, understeering and driving into somebody as a racing incident is one thing, but pushing somebody into a wall? seriously?
Button's drive through was for speeding behind the safety car, not the collision with Alonso.
Don't discuss, everything done by Hamilton or Button is a racing incident.
On June 13 2011 06:05 Vernom wrote: Button will be punished anyways.
For the Hamilton incident? He was at fault I thought but it was just a racing incident, get over it. If you are saying that about Alonso then he served a drive-through penalty.
Okay, understeering and driving into somebody as a racing incident is one thing, but pushing somebody into a wall? seriously?
Button's drive through was for speeding behind the safety car, not the collision with Alonso.
He couldnt see him, I cant blame him for that no. Even if I am a Hamilton fan and I truely believe Lewis would have won today without it. People collide, it happens. Ok I was wrong about the penalty, Im man enough to admit that.
On June 13 2011 06:05 Vernom wrote: Button will be punished anyways.
For the Hamilton incident? He was at fault I thought but it was just a racing incident, get over it. If you are saying that about Alonso then he served a drive-through penalty.
Okay, understeering and driving into somebody as a racing incident is one thing, but pushing somebody into a wall? seriously?
Button's drive through was for speeding behind the safety car, not the collision with Alonso.
Don't discuss, everything done by Hamilton or Button is a racing incident.
Maybe I am old fashioned but I just think you need to get on with it. Sutil shouldnt have been punished in my eyes. Di Resta maybe was deserved his but if I was a steward I wouldnt have given it him. They dont make contact on purpose and he broke his front wing which is punishment enough. In fact the only one I didnt like was Schumacher moving and pushing off Hamilton in the breaking zone, but I wont complain.
On June 13 2011 06:05 Vernom wrote: Button will be punished anyways.
For the Hamilton incident? He was at fault I thought but it was just a racing incident, get over it. If you are saying that about Alonso then he served a drive-through penalty.
Okay, understeering and driving into somebody as a racing incident is one thing, but pushing somebody into a wall? seriously?
Button's drive through was for speeding behind the safety car, not the collision with Alonso.
Don't discuss, everything done by Hamilton or Button is a racing incident.
In fact the only one I didnt like was Schumacher moving and pushing off Hamilton in the breaking zone, but I wont complain.
Well at least you don't deny your blatant bias towards Hamilton.
On June 13 2011 06:05 Vernom wrote: Button will be punished anyways.
For the Hamilton incident? He was at fault I thought but it was just a racing incident, get over it. If you are saying that about Alonso then he served a drive-through penalty.
Wonder why the Stewards didn't catch his purple fastest sector times under the safety car .... If he will be penalized, then he should be for this. But I really, really do hope that he gets to keep his victory, fantastic drive.
On June 13 2011 06:05 Vernom wrote: Button will be punished anyways.
For the Hamilton incident? He was at fault I thought but it was just a racing incident, get over it. If you are saying that about Alonso then he served a drive-through penalty.
Okay, understeering and driving into somebody as a racing incident is one thing, but pushing somebody into a wall? seriously?
Button's drive through was for speeding behind the safety car, not the collision with Alonso.
Don't discuss, everything done by Hamilton or Button is a racing incident.
In fact the only one I didnt like was Schumacher moving and pushing off Hamilton in the breaking zone, but I wont complain.
Well at least you don't deny your blatant bias towards Hamilton.
I dont deny I am a Hamilton fan. Webber agreed with me about the first incident who has the most reason to be biased. Lewis and Jenson both agreed about their incident. Its pretty clear you cannot move in the breaking zone, so my bias lies to my eyes I guess because that is what I saw.
cracking race, Button had the drive of his career... shame about Lewis I really thought this was his to loose and he is probaly the best wet driver out there.... was one of those things Lewis being Lewis he pushed like mad into everything and is always fully commited, very sena-esk...
...but yeah Vettel is walking away with the championship, I don't think anyone can stop him now.... which is a shame
Managed to watch whole race, maybe becouse its been good 2 months since i've watched F1 live. But the wait was worth it, crazy stuff happening left and right after the rain break(lol). So wanted MSC to get 3rd and see him on podium once again, oh well, maybe next time.
On June 13 2011 06:38 Housemd wrote: I wonder if he would have caught Vettel if Vettel hadn't went off.
Nah, he wouldn't, i was already making jokes of Mclaren crew for celebrating when he was catching up Vettel, like he was already in front of him.And then, boom, Vettel's out haha.
We want to see racing. Now THAT was racing. I hope that the stewards don't go and ruin it all. Hamilton drove stupidly and paid for it, should've been more patient.
On June 13 2011 07:29 Klive5ive wrote: Hamilton drove stupidly and paid for it, should've been more patient.
I think thats a little much, Lewis has always been a driver where he races on the edge 100% of the time, you give him a gap and he will go, he has a better run on a driver and he will go... it's what won him the Chinese GP and its what won him his championship in 08.
He just got unlucky that Jenson didn't see him... though I think it would have been a joke if they had penlised him for touching Mark... Mark left him so much room on the entry he knew he was going to be coming through but didn't leave enough space on the exit of the corner and due to the conditions they touched... was a racing insident just like Alonso/Button... neither require the stuards envolvment.
Beautiful race. Absolutely brilliant last minute drive by Jenson Button. Michael Schumacher was if you ask me the better driver against Webber and probably against Button, but the Mercedes just isn't good enough to withstand another car pushing it with DRS.
With a better car MSC still got the potential to be world champion.. he's so good in driving. First time I saw Vettel doing a crucial mistake, don't think that would have happened to MSC, but anyways I won't complain sincei t was a really good race.
Hamilton really.. had a bad day once again being too agressive and blaming nothing but the conditions when he should blame himself a lot more.
Webber did two crucial mistakes in consecutive laps against MSC and still took him :/ really undeserved 3rd place. Other that I think it's good that Button wasn't penalized after the race, he deserved the win.
Sucks for Vettel, leading a race for 69/70 laps and then making one crucial mistake to lose the race. But oh well
I thought it was a great race despite the red flag. To me it didn't seem as if Vettel fell apart due to the pressure; it's more like he was pushing so hard because he knew Button was closing fast. All throughout the last two laps you could see just how hard Vettel was pushing and how close to wrecking he was on almost every single corner. I think Button would have passed Vettel either way on the DRS zone, and Vettel knew this and thus why he was pushing so hard. It's too bad MSC couldn't have gotten a podium, if they could have stayed on intermediates then I think he could have gotten it for sure.
Damn, Schumacher still has it in him and he's still the god of rain apparently =). If they can make that car competitive for next season I see him as a strong contender for the title again.
On June 13 2011 09:50 Ermac wrote: Damn, Schumacher still has it in him and he's still the god of rain apparently =). If they can make that car competitive for next season I see him as a strong contender for the title again.
I can't see him lasting another season and I really don't see him ever being in the title hunt again.
On June 13 2011 09:50 Ermac wrote: Damn, Schumacher still has it in him and he's still the god of rain apparently =). If they can make that car competitive for next season I see him as a strong contender for the title again.
I can't see him lasting another season and I really don't see him ever being in the title hunt again.
Then you're not very well informed. Schumacher will definitely drive another season. His contract lasts till 2012 and he has stated time and time again that he will fulfill it. There's even speculation he will extend it to 2014 or longer.
Apart from that he's a great driver and with the right car he will be a contender again.
On June 13 2011 09:50 Ermac wrote: Damn, Schumacher still has it in him and he's still the god of rain apparently =). If they can make that car competitive for next season I see him as a strong contender for the title again.
I can't see him lasting another season and I really don't see him ever being in the title hunt again.
Then you're not very well informed. Schumacher will definitely drive another season. His contract lasts till 2012 and he has stated time and time again that he will fulfill it. There's even speculation he will extend it to 2014 or longer.
Apart from that he's a great driver and with the right car he will be a contender again.
I'm talking realistically, untill the last race he's been out qulified/raced by his team mate nearly every race and no one is talking about Nico winning the title. This was suppose to be Merc's big season but they have been unable to beat Ferrari who are the lesser of the two 3 teams atm...
...also Alonso beat Schuy at the end of his career when he was racing much better than he is now... and Alonso has not only gotten better but he has got new friends that can push him in the form of Vettel and Lewis... and I can't see Schuy ever being good enough at this point in time to beat either of those 3 to a title... Merc would have to do a Honda/Braun for that.
Though I really wanted him to get a podium... but yeah I think that this result is probally just a one off and that he wont want to contiune
On June 13 2011 09:50 Ermac wrote: Damn, Schumacher still has it in him and he's still the god of rain apparently =). If they can make that car competitive for next season I see him as a strong contender for the title again.
I can't see him lasting another season and I really don't see him ever being in the title hunt again.
Then you're not very well informed. Schumacher will definitely drive another season. His contract lasts till 2012 and he has stated time and time again that he will fulfill it. There's even speculation he will extend it to 2014 or longer.
Apart from that he's a great driver and with the right car he will be a contender again.
I'm talking realistically, untill the last race he's been out qulified/raced by his team mate nearly every race and no one is talking about Nico winning the title. This was suppose to be Merc's big season but they have been unable to beat Ferrari who are the lesser of the two 3 teams atm...
...also Alonso beat Schuy at the end of his career when he was racing much better than he is now... and Alonso has not only gotten better but he has got new friends that can push him in the form of Vettel and Lewis... and I can't see Schuy ever being good enough at this point in time to beat either of those 3 to a title... Merc would have to do a Honda/Braun for that.
Though I really wanted him to get a podium... but yeah I think that this result is probally just a one off and that he wont want to contiune
This wasn't supposed to be Mercedes' big season. They have always been talking about being a title contender for 2012, not 2011. Again you're not very well informed =)
Furthermore Alonso didn't beat Schumacher back then because he was the better driver but because he had a better car. Not saying he's a bad driver, quite the contrary actually. Alonso is one of the best drivers in the field, but he himself says if Schumacher had the right car he would still be winning titles. Google for his interviews if you don't believe me.
Further discussion at this point will lead nowhere. We'll just have to wait and see =)
With Merc its always been oh next year... but yeah I guess its pointless to speculate... though I can't see anyone but McLaren atm being able to beat RedBull... Adrian Newey is imbalanced.
On June 13 2011 19:26 baldgye wrote: With Merc its always been oh next year... but yeah I guess its pointless to speculate... though I can't see anyone but McLaren atm being able to beat RedBull... Adrian Newey is imbalanced.
You don't need to be well informed to see that Schumacher is not even as good a driver as Rosberg, who is himself not nearly as competitive as the likes of Vettel and Hamilton. The guy is in his 40s now and nobody can hold back the sands of time, not even a racing legend.
No one can deny Schumacher's acheivements, but looking at when he was actually winning, he was really the king of getting pole position and then holding off the chasers. He was really great at defending, but now you can't keep faster people behind you anymore (apart from maybe at Monoco). He isn't fast enough in qualifying and he isn't particularly good at overtaking.
With him no longer having the best car in the feild (and he never will again), his chances of winning even another race are slim to none.
Surely Mercedes best chance was the year after Braun won the WC. They had the same team and the same car that had just won the title. Ever since then they have been slipping further and further behind.
On June 13 2011 20:09 deathly rat wrote: You don't need to be well informed to see that Schumacher is not even as good a driver as Rosberg, who is himself not nearly as competitive as the likes of Vettel and Hamilton. The guy is in his 40s now and nobody can hold back the sands of time, not even a racing legend.
No one can deny Schumacher's acheivements, but looking at when he was actually winning, he was really the king of getting pole position and then holding off the chasers. He was really great at defending, but now you can't keep faster people behind you anymore (apart from maybe at Monoco). He isn't fast enough in qualifying and he isn't particularly good at overtaking.
With him no longer having the best car in the feild (and he never will again), his chances of winning even another race are slim to none.
Surely Mercedes best chance was the year after Braun won the WC. They had the same team and the same car that had just won the title. Ever since then they have been slipping further and further behind.
Well the problem with a WC winning team is that they are so focused on winning the last season that they are often not overly competetive at the start of the following season...
On June 13 2011 20:09 deathly rat wrote: You don't need to be well informed to see that Schumacher is not even as good a driver as Rosberg, who is himself not nearly as competitive as the likes of Vettel and Hamilton. The guy is in his 40s now and nobody can hold back the sands of time, not even a racing legend.
No one can deny Schumacher's acheivements, but looking at when he was actually winning, he was really the king of getting pole position and then holding off the chasers. He was really great at defending, but now you can't keep faster people behind you anymore (apart from maybe at Monoco). He isn't fast enough in qualifying and he isn't particularly good at overtaking.
With him no longer having the best car in the feild (and he never will again), his chances of winning even another race are slim to none.
Surely Mercedes best chance was the year after Braun won the WC. They had the same team and the same car that had just won the title. Ever since then they have been slipping further and further behind.
I don't know how closely you follow formula 1, but what you state is absolutely not true. You never know how development from one season to another goes. Remember when Renault came out with a brilliant car and Alonso was untouchable that season? The season before they were not close to the championship.
You can have a brilliant car in a new season and Michael Schumacher is amazingly good at defending and overtaking, but you have to have a good car right now. You fail to realize that with DRS and KERS its much harder to keep the attacker behind you and it will lead to more overtaking, no matter how good you are. If you have a worse car and the disadvantage of not being able to activate DRS for defence purpose - you are going to lose your position.
If you don't believe me, check the situation where MSC was ahead of Webber and easily ~300 meters in front. Webber activated DRS and it looked like MSC is standing. (first attempt, when he cut the corner after)
While I agree that I don't think MSC will be world champion once again, give him an equal car to the Red Bulls and he can fight for the championship again because his drive yesterday was amazing.
He wont win a title while Rosberg is his team-mate no matter how good his car. I dont think he is better than Schumacher was at his prime, but he is vastly superior now. He is also the strongest team-mate he has ever had in his career due to hand picking them. 05 McLaren had the best car too, 06 someone above said the Renault was better than the Ferrari, this isnt true. Alonso earned his titles.
McClaren look set to lose Hamilton to Red Bull in 2013 unless they deliver a faster car in 2012.. I don't usually jump on the rumor mill, but private talks between Horner + Hamilton, plus the fact that both Hamilton and Webber's contracts end at the end of 2012 make it a pretty safe assumption.
On June 13 2011 23:42 NikonTC wrote: McClaren look set to lose Hamilton to Red Bull in 2013 unless they deliver a faster car in 2012.. I don't usually jump on the rumor mill, but private talks between Horner + Hamilton, plus the fact that both Hamilton and Webber's contracts end at the end of 2012 make it a pretty safe assumption.
I think that's more just Lewis and his management trying to push the issue of the car as much as they can aswel as red bull making sure they have someone to replace vettel when he moves to Ferrari.
Red bull won't be on top forever and I think Lewis know this he is just keeping he options open and reminding the team that it's not just a given that he'll stay at mclaren
On June 13 2011 23:42 NikonTC wrote: McClaren look set to lose Hamilton to Red Bull in 2013 unless they deliver a faster car in 2012.. I don't usually jump on the rumor mill, but private talks between Horner + Hamilton, plus the fact that both Hamilton and Webber's contracts end at the end of 2012 make it a pretty safe assumption.
I highly doubt that. 1) They dont pay anywhere near his wage level. 2) His agent would have been talking if it was something like that. 3) McLaren are very important to him, and he considers Red Bull a "drinks company".
Ofcourse the last few years have been frustrating but McLaren will bounce back, they always do. If he did leave, I think it would only be to Ferrari but as Alonso has a 5 year deal and the shitstorm he would kick up if it did happen, he will be at McLaren for the majority of his career. As for Red Bull replacing Webber, I think they will sign Kubica who will do excellent.
On June 13 2011 20:09 deathly rat wrote: You don't need to be well informed to see that Schumacher is not even as good a driver as Rosberg, who is himself not nearly as competitive as the likes of Vettel and Hamilton. The guy is in his 40s now and nobody can hold back the sands of time, not even a racing legend.
No one can deny Schumacher's acheivements, but looking at when he was actually winning, he was really the king of getting pole position and then holding off the chasers. He was really great at defending, but now you can't keep faster people behind you anymore (apart from maybe at Monoco). He isn't fast enough in qualifying and he isn't particularly good at overtaking.
With him no longer having the best car in the feild (and he never will again), his chances of winning even another race are slim to none.
Surely Mercedes best chance was the year after Braun won the WC. They had the same team and the same car that had just won the title. Ever since then they have been slipping further and further behind.
I don't know how closely you follow formula 1, but what you state is absolutely not true. You never know how development from one season to another goes. Remember when Renault came out with a brilliant car and Alonso was untouchable that season? The season before they were not close to the championship.
[/QUOTE] Whilst big leap forwards in technology can occur, for the most part the increase in performance is incremental. So since Braun had a very good car at the end of their winning season, it stands to reason that it was still a competitive car at the beginning of the next. The point is they are getting further away from the leaders, not closer.
On June 13 2011 22:18 mTw|NarutO wrote: You can have a brilliant car in a new season and Michael Schumacher is amazingly good at defending and overtaking, but you have to have a good car right now. You fail to realize that with DRS and KERS its much harder to keep the attacker behind you and it will lead to more overtaking, no matter how good you are. If you have a worse car and the disadvantage of not being able to activate DRS for defence purpose - you are going to lose your position.
He was brilliant at defending, but not attacking. Now he is neither. My point was that DRS and KERS make it so that Schumacher's defensive style of driving doesn't work in the current set up. We are both saying this.
On June 13 2011 22:18 mTw|NarutO wrote: While I agree that I don't think MSC will be world champion once again, give him an equal car to the Red Bulls and he can fight for the championship again because his drive yesterday was amazing.
I'm not sure how much you can read into yesterday's race since Button was so much faster than everybody else, but he obviously isn't THAT much better. The circumstances just favoured some drivers more than others.
On inters MSC was the fastest man on the track, after the restart. When everyone switched back to slicks he couldn't anything to hold off the attacks, his inferior car coupled with DRS was the reason.
That being said I don't really care if he is able to win titles, but it would be sad to see him leave F1 again, the sport is going to be a lot less interesting without him.
I really disagree with Schumachers attacking not being good. Its just hard to judge, because he dominated so many races where he didn't even need to overtake, but he also had races where he went from 20 to 1 but that was due to his superior car so..
I guess, give him a good car and he would still be able to race for wins ;-)
Try this, there was a HQ version on YT but the greed of Bernie and his boys knows no limits Its from the start of Hungary 06, a masterclass of overtaking.
That guy is an idiot... who the hell let him near the track...
Well the clip is gone now, but I'm pretty sure that one of the other marshalls is seen running across the road and Kicking a piece of debris out of the way. I mean, sure, you could fall down and panic...its funny and stupid but mildly forgivable...but you guys dont have brooms or something? This along with Alonso's teeter-totter of a lift out was just a travesty of an F1 race. I'm ashamed to be Canadian because of this showing.
That guy is an idiot... who the hell let him near the track...
Well the clip is gone now, but I'm pretty sure that one of the other marshalls is seen running across the road and Kicking a piece of debris out of the way. I mean, sure, you could fall down and panic...its funny and stupid but mildly forgivable...but you guys dont have brooms or something? This along with Alonso's teeter-totter of a lift out was just a travesty of an F1 race. I'm ashamed to be Canadian because of this showing.
I wouldn't go that far but its pretty ridiculas what they where doing, bearing in mind that one small peice of CF could have punctured one of those drivers wheels and ended there race simply becasue he was being a complete idiot.
On June 26 2011 00:22 GTR wrote: Looks like the season is going to end up something like this.
It wont be like 88 I promise you that. Lets see how the exhaust blown diffuser ban works out next race. I actually think Alonso and Hamilton have a decent shot at the race tomorrow too, I guess alot depends on how the start works out and if Webber plays the rear gunner or not.
The races have pretty much all been excellent though so I don't really mind how the Championship turns out. Sure it would be better if it was close, but I prefer amazing stand alone races to an amazing title fight with standard action on each weekend.
So sick of this fucking Spanish race director focusing on some boring Algersuiari incident becasue OMG HE'S SPANISH, which means we miss Hamilton/Massa's battle out of the pit lane and other things. Is it this bad at other races?
Lackluster race but I watched the BBC feed for the first time yesterday. It is approximately 378 times better than the US coverage on Speed Channel. The Speed commentators are so amateurish and dull, it drove me nuts from the first time I ever watched them. Even though I was a noob to F1, I still knew that those guys were bad. BBC production value is so much higher and there are no effing commercial breaks every 5 minutes. It's no contest.
Personally I think Vettel is way overhyped though. He's a very good driver obviously, but I think Hamilton/Button/Rosberg/Schumacher/Alonso would probably outperform him with similar cars. That's one thing that really sucks about Formula 1. You never know how much comes from the car and how much comes from the driver. Even experts can only speculate.
Nah, if they were all in the same car it would be a 3 horse race between Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel. Schumacher is way passed his prime and rosberg, massa and button are good but not quite on the level of the 3 i mentioned.
On June 28 2011 08:53 Project Psycho wrote: Nah, if they were all in the same car it would be a 3 horse race between Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel. Schumacher is way passed his prime and rosberg, massa and button are good but not quite on the level of the 3 i mentioned.
Well, if that's your not-so-humble opinion as an undisputed expert of all things Formula 1 then it's gotta be true I guess.
On June 28 2011 08:53 Project Psycho wrote: Nah, if they were all in the same car it would be a 3 horse race between Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel. Schumacher is way passed his prime and rosberg, massa and button are good but not quite on the level of the 3 i mentioned.
If every driver had identical cars...there would definitely be at least one surprise. Someone from a lesser team would suddenly become a contender. It would be very interesting to see how it would play out so we could put to rest who is the best current driver.
IMHO Vettel and Alsonso are the best drivers atm. Hamilton is a tiny bit behind i guess simply because hes overreacting too often, he got no patience. Sounds stupid, but even in a race u have to be patient sometimes.
On June 28 2011 10:46 krisss wrote: IMHO Vettel and Alsonso are the best drivers atm. Hamilton is a tiny bit behind i guess simply because hes overreacting too often, he got no patience. Sounds stupid, but even in a race u have to be patient sometimes.
Yeah, thats why Hamilton beat them both the only time they drove equal cars.
On June 28 2011 10:46 krisss wrote: IMHO Vettel and Alsonso are the best drivers atm. Hamilton is a tiny bit behind i guess simply because hes overreacting too often, he got no patience. Sounds stupid, but even in a race u have to be patient sometimes.
This is why in his debut year he was on the podium 9 times in his first 9 races, he beat his team mate and then reigning 2 time world champion Alonso and came within one point of winning the drivers world championship in his rookie year... and would have gone onto win it if it wasn't for Alonso. He then went on to win the title in his second year in one of the best seasons F1 has seen.
Hamilton drives alot like Senna, its all or nothing... good example was if you compare the races he has led in the wet compared to the one at Canada where Vettel was whey too cautious and let Button win.
While Vettel is no doubt an amazing driver, I think if they were all in equal cars the battle would be between Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel and when he is fit Kubica (who almost won the WC with BMW remember) with Button, Webber, Koby and Schumy batteling behind.
...but back on topic to this season... I think the WC and CC is over... I can't see anyway for anyone else to win... Hamilton has the best shot but McLaren is lagging behind Ferrari atm and is a way off from Redbull... I just hope for rain at the British GP as both the McLaren drivers are amazing wet drivers in very diffrent ways.... but yeah looks like atm Vettel has the title in the bag and RedBull have the constructors in the bag too...
On June 28 2011 08:53 Project Psycho wrote: Nah, if they were all in the same car it would be a 3 horse race between Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel. Schumacher is way passed his prime and rosberg, massa and button are good but not quite on the level of the 3 i mentioned.
If every driver had identical cars...there would definitely be at least one surprise. Someone from a lesser team would suddenly become a contender. It would be very interesting to see how it would play out so we could put to rest who is the best current driver.
Good point, I totally forgot about Kobayashi for example. He's an amazing driver imho.
Congratulations to Daniel Ricciardo on earning his drive with Hispania until the end of the year. Silverstone should be a good track for him to debut too considering his British F3 past. I wont shed any tears for Narain Karthikeyan, the guy was never good enough for F1.
Edit: Its not the only change at Hispania either, ownership has changed hands as they are completely broke it seems. Williams announced they have signed a two year deal for Renault engines too, Williams-Renault ftw!!!!!! Just need a red5 now
On July 01 2011 23:13 Aristodemus wrote:Williams announced they have signed a two year deal for Renault engines too, Williams-Renault ftw!!!!!! Just need a red5 now
Anyone know what's happening with Cosworth? I've been looking a bit into the 2013/2014-engine-question, but I could not find definite answers related to Cosworth within all that engine regulation chaos. Now Williams said that one of the main reasons why they will turn to Renault is because Cosworth won't be able to produce an engine for the 2013 season. Which is kind of a shame, because, looking at Williams' top speeds, their current engine seems really competitive.
Cosworth weren't in F1 during to 2007-2009 then they stepped up to make engines for the bunch of new teams that turned up in 2010. I guess it's just not so profitable anymore or Renault have made the teams a better offer. Cosworth has their hands in lots of things it's probably just a business decision not too much to worry about.
I wouldn't be suprised to see Cosworth back for 2014; they are fantastic with turbos.
On June 28 2011 10:46 krisss wrote: IMHO Vettel and Alsonso are the best drivers atm. Hamilton is a tiny bit behind i guess simply because hes overreacting too often, he got no patience. Sounds stupid, but even in a race u have to be patient sometimes.
I completely agree with the Hamilton side. He's a good driver, but a driver needs to know patience. Yo can't shove your way around anymore -- even Senna didn't necessarily stick his nose everywhere. He was super aggressive, but pretty darn smart too. I can't really say I've seen Senna race first hand (I was only three when he ran his final race), so I'm relying on replays and what not.
Button is patient, which is why I'm favoring this Brit over the other. He pretty much went from dead last to 1st in Canada.
I am biased though -- born and raised as a Mclaren fan :p (though my parents are favoring RBR now...).
I will admit that Vettel is a superb driver, but, also that Newey is pretty darn crafty.
For anyone interested in this ridiculous blown diffuser row thats ongoing, here is a transcript between Christian Horner and Martin Whitmarsh. I was against it from the start BUT backing down in light of (Red Bulls) protests just seems weak. Its pretty clear McLaren are the worst affected top team and probably only second to Renault F1 of all the teams.
Horner: "First of all there was a technical directive that effectively turned it all off. That was met with reticence by the manufacturers, and it has been very much a manufacturer issue.
"Certain teams were then allowed to have fired overrun, to fuel their overrun, of which there were also secondary benefits, through the exhaust plumes and thrusts that creates.
"Renault presented their position to the FIA - and let's not forget this is an extraordinarily complex matter - to demonstrate that precedent is there that - for purposes of throttle blip (when changing down the gears) and reliability - cold-air blowing, open throttle, was a necessary part of the operation of their engine otherwise it would cause serious issues.
"It would be unfair to allow fired overrun and not allow the same parameters for another engine manufacturer.
"It is a very difficult job for the FIA to pick their way through this and I think all credit to them, they have looked to be as fair, balanced and equitable as they decreed they would be, to come up with a solution that they have.
"We are not totally happy with the solution that we have, that's for sure. I'm sure Martin isn't with his and I'm sure there are a lot of conspiracies in the paddock.
"But that's just circumstantial at the end of the day. The fundamentals are that the engine manufacturers have been treated in a fair and equitable manner."
Whitmarsh: "I'm sure people set out to do that. There have been about six technical directives on the subject so far and when the goalposts are moving part-way through a practice session, it makes it quite difficult.
"To do this in a fairly cloudy, ambiguous and changing way, inevitably in a competitive environment every team feels it's been hard done by. At the moment, potentially a lot of teams will end up making arguments to cold-blow.
"Renault have been in that domain for some time. Other teams haven't and don't have that experience. We are talking a very substantial performance benefit here."
Horner: "Why is it any more of a performance benefit than fired overrun? At the end of the day, Renault is allowed a fired over-run but it can't for reliability purposes."
Whitmarsh: "No, but clearly if under braking the throttles are open 50%, it is a reasonable benefit. It is a lot of gas going through. I would imagine all engines will end up doing that, which isn't what was envisaged when it was said we are going to stop engine blowing."
Horner: "So Mercedes engines aren't firing on overrun?"
Whitmarsh: "They've been constrained."
Horner: "As have Renault."
Whitmarsh: "Providing the constraints are the same for everyone, but clearly the fact we're having this discussion, it's messy.
"The intention people believed was that we were going to stop exhausts blowing when the driver didn't have his foot on the throttle. I think that was a simple concept. But that concept has been deflected. Therefore it hasn't been clear.
"The fact these things were only coming out in the course of today [Friday] is fairly extraordinary. But nonetheless I'm sure we'll remain calm and pick our way through.
"But probably better to make changes to the regulations between seasons and not in seasons, and to make regulations that are clear and unambiguous.
"At the moment a lot of people are getting emotional about the situation and I can understand why it's frustrating for the engineers not to know what it is we are allowed to do. By cold blowing, you're getting an extra 30 or 40 points of rear downforce in braking and that's quite an attractive thing, so if you can do it you're going to do it."
Horner: "Let's not make any mistake here. Firing on overrun, the thrust that that generates through the exhaust, generates a bigger effect. Let's just be absolutely clear on that."
Whitmarsh: "And that's been largely contained. A lot of those strategies are not permissible now."
Horner: "I read the technical directive that four-cylinder fired over-run was permissible for certain competitors and that includes your engine. As far as we understood, before Renault were allowed their parameters ,obviously there was a significant advantage going to any Mercedes-powered team.
"As you can see, it's a massively complex subject and the one thing Martin and I will agree on is it should have been addressed at the end of the year. But unfortunately here we are."
/ on a side note: even if he doesnt, 77 points in advance at this point of the season is just crazy, if he only keeps placing in the top 3 in every race there is literally no way he can lose the championship.
On the other side, just dropping out one race and you might lose 25 points on your strongest opponent, makes for an exciting season until the last 4-5 races.
Ugh. Sucked seeing Button's wheel loose. Also annoying to hear "maintain the gap". So much for equality at Red Bull. Did my heart good to see Massa getting thumped at the end though. That guy should not be in F1.
Edit: Man I love Ted Kravitz giving Christian Horner a hard time in the interview.
It's a shame for Webber but Horner made the right call... unfortunatally for him his drivers have a history of taking each other out... Hamilton doing the very best with the 3rd fastest car, shame for Button but these things happen.
But thats it, thats both championships over, there is no way that RB will let Webber race Vettel, not that Webber can really match Seb's pace anyway... and Alonso and the McLarens are to ofar back at this point, bar a mechanical problem I can't see Seb finishing out of the points for the majority of the following races...
...hoping that McLaren can give Hammy a car that can compete next season, just a shame that this season is over already...
It wasnt the right choice, its moves like the one Horner pulled that destroys interest in the sport (legitimizes the spoilt rich kid mentallity if you get the expression) and robs a faster man of a potential place. People watch for passing and the edge of the seat moments and crashes (nascars entire premise)
Team tactics should not be allowed at all. I dont think that Vettel is faster than webber he's carrer is just the opposite as in he has all the luck. Personally I can't wait to see his luck change it will happen mark my words just look at how hamilton is going now.
Easily the fastest drivers are webber, vettel and alonso
Honestly, I'm a pretty big Webber fan and I think he is a lot better than he is given credit for, but denying Vettel is faster is pretty ridiculous in my opinion.
Even without the things that suit Vettel over him (Pirelli's, blown diffusers apparently) Vettel is still better. With them it's pretty clear.
Lewis on the last lap was sensational!!! To deny Massa on the last but one corner! Magical proves he can drive pretty darn good!! Thats without even mentioning going from 10th-3rd in 15 laps!?! Magic!! Shame MClaren in general had a P*** poor race again! Messing up Button thanks to the Lollipop man, messing up Hamiltons fuel load, Qualifying was pretty poor again aswell.
Still, thank god they "Nerf'd" RedBull!!!
Very pleased for Alonso though, even though the guys a Cock, he drove sensationally and EXTREMELY fast! I dont know where Ferraris new speed came from, but on the BBC build up in England Eddie Jordan said that Ferrari are looking good and Alonso would win, and well he was right!!
Excellent race weekend though! Probably the most action packed one from my point of view, with over taking all the way up until the last lap!! Amazing!
On July 11 2011 18:59 BordZ wrote: It wasnt the right choice, its moves like the one Horner pulled that destroys interest in the sport (legitimizes the spoilt rich kid mentallity if you get the expression) and robs a faster man of a potential place. People watch for passing and the edge of the seat moments and crashes (nascars entire premise)
Team tactics should not be allowed at all. I dont think that Vettel is faster than webber he's carrer is just the opposite as in he has all the luck. Personally I can't wait to see his luck change it will happen mark my words just look at how hamilton is going now.
Easily the fastest drivers are webber, vettel and alonso
Wow. So Vettel crushes Webber 9-0 this year and that is down to luck? ok. I assume that you are insinuating that Hamilton was lucky yesterday, ok. The three fastest drivers are Webber, Vettel and Alonso? ok. Maybe you should include Heidfeld too considering he dominated him at Williams (05 he was beaten but only because he was injured as the Williams were at the most competitive, missing a large chunk of the season).
On July 11 2011 18:59 BordZ wrote: It wasnt the right choice, its moves like the one Horner pulled that destroys interest in the sport (legitimizes the spoilt rich kid mentallity if you get the expression) and robs a faster man of a potential place. People watch for passing and the edge of the seat moments and crashes (nascars entire premise)
Team tactics should not be allowed at all. I dont think that Vettel is faster than webber he's carrer is just the opposite as in he has all the luck. Personally I can't wait to see his luck change it will happen mark my words just look at how hamilton is going now.
Easily the fastest drivers are webber, vettel and alonso
It was the right move, more points for Vettel means he can actually be WC faster and thus RBR can then shift focus entirely on next season sooner than if they let Webber take points off him. F1 is a buisness, it takes insane amounts of money to run/manage and develop a team, points matter, team orders are a fact of F1 and always have been (last season being a good example).
Vettel has been faster than Webber all season, it's nothing to do with luck Vettel has been a rising star for a while now while Webber has just been a good guy to have becasue he's a level headed stable racer. Webber was only ever going to win the WC last season while Vettel was still finding his feet, and Webber totally faded away at the end of last season.
The fastest/best drivers on the track right now are; Vettel, Alson and Hamilton. The only other driver who (given the right car) could actually fight them all the way for the championship is Kubia and he's out for this season. Webber is a good driver, but he's not WDC matterial. He has had his chance, just like Rubens did @ Braun GP...
On July 11 2011 19:36 Pandemona wrote: Lewis on the last lap was sensational!!! To deny Massa on the last but one corner! Magical proves he can drive pretty darn good!! Thats without even mentioning going from 10th-3rd in 15 laps!?! Magic!! Shame MClaren in general had a P*** poor race again! Messing up Button thanks to the Lollipop man, messing up Hamiltons fuel load, Qualifying was pretty poor again aswell.
Still, thank god they "Nerf'd" RedBull!!!
They 'Nerf'd' redbull? How so? Ferrari have been catching them slowly all season, least Alonso has... the only reason he got passed Vettel was becasue of a poor stop, RBR proved in Quali they have the out right pace to still be on top...
I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
On July 12 2011 15:58 Lachrymose wrote: I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
He has beaten him 9 times from 9 races, They have both had technical problems. They are facts. I would say that is being crushed.
On July 12 2011 15:58 Lachrymose wrote: I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
He has beaten him 9 times from 9 races, They have both had technical problems. They are facts. I would say that is being crushed.
They are grossly misrepreseted facts with a ridiculously shallow conclusion actually.
Hurr, Vettel has beaten Kobayashi 9-0. They have both had Formula 1 cars. Facts! Looks like a crushing!
On July 12 2011 15:58 Lachrymose wrote: I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
He has beaten him 9 times from 9 races, They have both had technical problems. They are facts. I would say that is being crushed.
Webber weren´t given the same chances as Vettel... that´s fact
On July 12 2011 15:58 Lachrymose wrote: I'd like to point out saying Vettel "9-0'd" Webber so far this season is pretty disingenuous given the endless list of technical failures Webber has endured this year.
Again, no I'm not saying Webber is better or whatever, but "crushed" is really pushing it.
He has beaten him 9 times from 9 races, They have both had technical problems. They are facts. I would say that is being crushed.
They are grossly misrepreseted facts with a ridiculously shallow conclusion actually.
Hurr, Vettel has beaten Kobayashi 9-0. They have both had Formula 1 cars. Facts! Looks like a crushing!
That, dsn't even make sense... Webber and Vettel have the same car... it's like saying that Massa isn't getting beaten by Alonso this season, he's just 'unlucky'...
On July 13 2011 07:34 PITN wrote: Think it's pretty obvious lachrymose's opinion is based on the fact he's an aussie.. There aren't any other facts to explain his opinion.. :p
I agree with him. Vettel has had some problems this year as well, almost exclusively with KERS, but not nearly to the same degree as Webber.
I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
The red bull unit has been unreliable for both drivers. Secondly it is only a 60% KERS unit, probably worth 2/10ths maximum. If you want to find excuses for Webber you will and you are. Face facts Webber has been easily beaten this year.
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid. Webber is a great driver, but he proved last season that he just isn't a WC... he had that championship.. it was his to loose and he lost it.. Vettel was a mess pretty much untill the end of last season and it got to Webber.
What defines a great driver is there ability to drive around problems this season has been INSANE for reliabiltiy, Vettel has literally had nearly identical issues to that of Webber, the diffrence is that Vettel can drive around the problem and Webber can't.
Wow, I didn't know this thread existed! Gonna bookmark this and start posting alot, I'm actually soooo glad that TL has an F1 community, however small or big. Speaking of which, does anyone else here post on other F1 forums?
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid.
He's not even top10, let alone top3.
You want to talk about luck? Just look at the Silverstone race with Webber starting ahead of Vettel: Vettel has 1. Terrible pit stop 2. Stuck behind Hamilton 3. KERS problem and still Webber manages to finish behind him. If the situations were reversed Webber would've finished about 6th and certain people would put it down to just bad luck.
I don't really want to bash on Webber cos he's a nice guy and a real asset to the sport. But you can't be saying he's a top driver.
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid.
He's not even top10, let alone top3.
You want to talk about luck? Just look at the Silverstone race with Webber starting ahead of Vettel: Vettel has 1. Terrible pit stop 2. Stuck behind Hamilton 3. KERS problem and still Webber manages to finish behind him. If the situations were reversed Webber would've finished about 6th and certain people would put it down to just bad luck.
I don't really want to bash on Webber cos he's a nice guy and a real asset to the sport. But you can't be saying he's a top driver.
Yeah I think it's pretty unfair to put him outside the top10 of the drivers on the track... he has so much experiance and is still fast, just becasue he's not as fast as Vettel in a team where Vettel is and always has been no1 isn't easy. Remeber Alonso, Hamilton when they where both at McLaren... I'd say Lewis and Fernado are pretty even skill level wise but Lewis destoryed Alonso in his rookie year.
So I think that writing Webber off is a little silly, but I 100% agree that he's not in the same league as the big boys
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid.
He's not even top10, let alone top3.
You want to talk about luck? Just look at the Silverstone race with Webber starting ahead of Vettel: Vettel has 1. Terrible pit stop 2. Stuck behind Hamilton 3. KERS problem and still Webber manages to finish behind him. If the situations were reversed Webber would've finished about 6th and certain people would put it down to just bad luck.
I don't really want to bash on Webber cos he's a nice guy and a real asset to the sport. But you can't be saying he's a top driver.
Yeah I think it's pretty unfair to put him outside the top10 of the drivers on the track... he has so much experiance and is still fast, just becasue he's not as fast as Vettel in a team where Vettel is and always has been no1 isn't easy. Remeber Alonso, Hamilton when they where both at McLaren... I'd say Lewis and Fernado are pretty even skill level wise but Lewis destoryed Alonso in his rookie year.
So I think that writing Webber off is a little silly, but I 100% agree that he's not in the same league as the big boys
On July 13 2011 09:50 Aristodemus wrote: I like Webber, I really do but if you guys think he has performed anywhere near Vettels level this season you are watching different races to me. Regardless of any issues. Comparing Vettels results to Kobayashi is just foolish, how you dont see that is beyond me.
Of course I don't think comparing Vettel's car to Kobayashi's is fair. The point I was making is that just because they (Webber and Vettel) have "both had technical problems" doesn't mean that it all evens out. Just because Vettel and Kobayashi "both have Formula 1 cars" doesn't mean it evens out. ~_~
As for regardless of any issues that is pretty much you either having no idea the extent of Webbers issues this year or no idea how much time not having KERs costs you or how thoroughly it screws you over not qualifying with it or not starting the race with it.
Webber is not as good a driver as Vettel, its just a fact. Just like he's not even in the top3 drivers on the grid.
He's not even top10, let alone top3.
You want to talk about luck? Just look at the Silverstone race with Webber starting ahead of Vettel: Vettel has 1. Terrible pit stop 2. Stuck behind Hamilton 3. KERS problem and still Webber manages to finish behind him. If the situations were reversed Webber would've finished about 6th and certain people would put it down to just bad luck.
I don't really want to bash on Webber cos he's a nice guy and a real asset to the sport. But you can't be saying he's a top driver.
Yeah I think it's pretty unfair to put him outside the top10 of the drivers on the track... he has so much experiance and is still fast, just becasue he's not as fast as Vettel in a team where Vettel is and always has been no1 isn't easy. Remeber Alonso, Hamilton when they where both at McLaren... I'd say Lewis and Fernado are pretty even skill level wise but Lewis destoryed Alonso in his rookie year.
So I think that writing Webber off is a little silly, but I 100% agree that he's not in the same league as the big boys
Lol, they had the same points total....
...Alonso was a double reigning world champion and Lewis was a rookie...
Hamilton was the favoured driver because although he hasn't won the championshipo multiple times yet and proved himself, is one of the best racing drivers ever to grace Formula 1. A lot of haters will probably scoff at that statement but after he's been retired for a while he will certainly be looked back on as one of the Formula 1 greats.
On July 23 2011 05:48 Kojaimea wrote: ...Hamilton was the favored driver in a team that had been grooming him for the role for a decade...
Yeah, but he was also a rookie... and his team mate was by far the best driver in F1 at the time, or at least that was the general opinion... if anyone had looked at Lewis's career previous to 07 and said that he would join McLaren and have 9 podiums in first 9 races and come within one point of winning the world championship.. a title that his team mate would make sure he couldn't win would have been locked up in an institution.
Webber in quali hasn't been that far off Seb pace wise, he is just horribly unlucky and just not anywhere near as good on his tires, its a similar story @ Ferrari with Masa and Alonso... they are forced to play second fiddle.
@Otak I agree with this, though Senna was loved by alot of people when he raced he just also had his fair share of haters, again like Hamilton.
I agree with this, though Senna was loved by alot of people when he raced he just also had his fair share of haters, again like Hamilton.
and like Vettel, Alonso, Schumacher, ...
and apparentally Webber haha
and you could argue that becasue Alonso came into the fastest team as a reigning double world champion and by the end of the season left after huge arguments with the teams bosses mostly thanks to Lewis's driving lol... and didn't he leave out of contract too??
First of all Hamilton didnt "destroy" Alonso in 2007, it was close but Hamilton showed himself to be the faster driver overall. There was no favouritism either which was the reason Alonso resorted to blackmail (he wanted to be the number one and McLaren dont do that). Something that Alonso (at every team other than McLaren), Vettel (Red Bull) and Schumacher (Ferrari and Benetton) have enjoyed for most of their careers. As for the Haters, I put it down to jealousy in every case other than Schumacher. He earned his hate fair and square
Amazing lap from Lewis and great to see webber is on a charge too!
@aristodemus I don't mean destroy as in points wise but really in mentality wise, in on season a rookie managed to make the best driver on the track hate him so much that it affects his driving, even today (well last season anyway). Was it Valencia last year where alsono thought that Lewis had cheated by over taking the saftey car, and even after getting a drive through still got on the podium(?) alonso was all over the place and going mental On track even allowing kobiashi to pass him on the last lap...
Incredible drive today by Hamilton, winning in the third fastest car! Sutil was also brilliant today too. Vettel was thoroughly outclassed by Webber, almost a minute behind. Nice Senna/Mansell scene to top it all off
On July 24 2011 22:45 Aristodemus wrote: Incredible drive today by Hamilton, winning in the third fastest car! Sutil was also brilliant today too. Vettel was thoroughly outclassed by Webber, almost a minute behind. Nice Senna/Mansell scene to top it all off
How do you know that he won in the third fastest car?
On July 24 2011 22:45 Aristodemus wrote: Incredible drive today by Hamilton, winning in the third fastest car! Sutil was also brilliant today too. Vettel was thoroughly outclassed by Webber, almost a minute behind. Nice Senna/Mansell scene to top it all off
How do you know that he won in the third fastest car?
The times they set reflect it.
Edit: In more detail, he over-achieved in quali. Got a good start and made a gap. The two faster cars closed once they had heat. Webber lost out after his stop because he made a mistake at turn one (fell behind both of them). Alonso suffered again with his tyres out of the pits and was passed because of it. He got in front by lapping purple at the end of his stint, faster than Hamilton on brand new tyres.Ferrari and Red Bull both over-estimated how slow the prime would be and Webber/Alonso both were trying to make their last set of options last until the end (like Vettel/Massa) and it proved to not be the case.
On July 24 2011 23:09 StUfF wrote: Can anyone explain why Webber pitted so late even though he was the first to get on his second pair?
Pitting earlier would only have secured 3rd place. Pitting later could not have been worse in absolute position, so it's worth a shot even though it's likely he will be slower.
Wow this was... amazing race... Finally Vettel having little bit worse race; I really enjoyed the race and had a good laugh with commentators because we lost video feed 10 laps before end +1 for Croatia xD. I simply don't understand why Ferrari has to botch something either on track or in pit they are so non-consistent but lolz 2nd place Alonso still pretty good ; RBR knew where their strength was in the end when racing trough pitlane itself....
Any other countries had choppy pictures / lost of feed?
Great race! Strange how the old classic circuits seem to always have epic races. I begin to wonder if it's actually because of the track or because the drivers get some psychological edge driving at those places and turn it into great racing.
Thought it was very telling how Martin Brundle at one point called one of the passes a "pure overtake" as there was no drs involved. (i forget which it was - may have been hamilton getting back past alonso) Think it shows his personal opinion on drs in F1.
On July 25 2011 00:32 IceSlipper wrote: Webber really needs to retire and join a motorsport with a rolling start! He loses the lead first corner everytime, guaranteed!
before open wheel motorsport he drove in one le mans 24 hour race.
in fact he was one of the drivers involved in the infamous mercedes car flip incidents ;p
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
That's not what I meant. We were talking about risks and Button didn't take many risks at the end of the season.
I mean why should Vettel risk his points just to get 4th instead of 5th place.
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
That's not what I meant. We were talking about risks and Button didn't take many risks at the end of the season.
I mean why should Vettel risk his points just to get 4th instead of 5th place.
It was not a case of Vettel hanging back, he just wasnt fast enough this weekend as a whole or to get in a position to overtake Massa on the track. It was a bit strange he decided to ignore his teams orders at the end though, must be a Red Bull trait
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
That's not what I meant. We were talking about risks and Button didn't take many risks at the end of the season.
I mean why should Vettel risk his points just to get 4th instead of 5th place.
Vettel dsn't ever really take risks... he is just fast and had been in the fastest car... i think if McLaren and Ferrari can contiune to match RB's pace in the coming races then this season's championship could be up for grabs
Red Bull has a really fast car, qualification proves it. It's also pretty clear that their race pace is very good (but not quite as good as quali pace). The issue with Red Bull is that they don't have the top speed of the other teams. Looking at the speed trap data from the qualifications, only HRT and Lotus had a slower speed! Red Bull just doesn't have a good car to make a comeback. They are fast, but at the wrong moment. They can always catch up the drivers that are in front of them but they have a hard time passing them, since they always lose grounds in the straights. As for Vettel, it would have been stupid for him to risk a DNF just for 2 points. It was smart of him to be patient, just like Rocky said. I'm curious to see if he will bounce back from a "poor" performance next week.
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
When Button won his championship, Brawn didn't have the budget to develop throughout the season like the other teams. That's why he faded. Not because of any "pressure".
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
When Button won his championship, Brawn didn't have the budget to develop throughout the season like the other teams. That's why he faded. Not because of any "pressure".
While it is true that the Brawn faded, he was thoroughly out-performed by Barrichello in the second half of the season. He felt the pressure, it is only natural, Button himself admitted as much.
That was Alonso's race, the pit crew handed it to him, but he failed to put the car in position. I'm not an Alonso fan by any means, but that was his race, imo.
On July 25 2011 14:15 Fishraper wrote: That was Alonso's race, the pit crew handed it to him, but he failed to put the car in position. I'm not an Alonso fan by any means, but that was his race, imo.
It seemed like Ferrari was struggling a little bit in the cooler temperatures. What surprised me the most was Hamilton's pace on the hard tire. I expected when he went onto them that it would be a struggle, but he was just flying.
On July 25 2011 14:15 Fishraper wrote: That was Alonso's race, the pit crew handed it to him, but he failed to put the car in position. I'm not an Alonso fan by any means, but that was his race, imo.
It seemed like Ferrari was struggling a little bit in the cooler temperatures. What surprised me the most was Hamilton's pace on the hard tire. I expected when he went onto them that it would be a struggle, but he was just flying.
Yeah I agree I was very apprehensive as Lewis came into the pits to go onto the hard tyres. Thought it might have been another of those situations where Mclaren threw it away on strategy again... Luckily that wasn't the case!
On July 25 2011 14:15 Fishraper wrote: That was Alonso's race, the pit crew handed it to him, but he failed to put the car in position. I'm not an Alonso fan by any means, but that was his race, imo.
It seemed like Ferrari was struggling a little bit in the cooler temperatures. What surprised me the most was Hamilton's pace on the hard tire. I expected when he went onto them that it would be a struggle, but he was just flying.
Yeah I agree I was very apprehensive as Lewis came into the pits to go onto the hard tyres. Thought it might have been another of those situations where Mclaren threw it away on strategy again... Luckily that wasn't the case!
Once Petrov was going green there were no worries. It wasnt a risk. Red Bull and Ferrari called it wrong trying to save the tyres.
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
When Button won his championship, Brawn didn't have the budget to develop throughout the season like the other teams. That's why he faded. Not because of any "pressure".
While it is true that the Brawn faded, he was thoroughly out-performed by Barrichello in the second half of the season. He felt the pressure, it is only natural, Button himself admitted as much.
While i wont disagree with you saying button felt pressure. However saying he was thoroughly out-performed by barichello is incorrect.
If we take Germany as being the half way point in the season the finishes between jenson button and rubens barichello were
Taking unnecessary risk when you've got a pretty secure championship? Hi Lewis 2007.
Vettel MUST not take any risks, just qualify in a good position, end the race in the best position he can (again, without taking risks) and he'll be fine.
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
When Button won his championship, Brawn didn't have the budget to develop throughout the season like the other teams. That's why he faded. Not because of any "pressure".
While it is true that the Brawn faded, he was thoroughly out-performed by Barrichello in the second half of the season. He felt the pressure, it is only natural, Button himself admitted as much.
While i wont disagree with you saying button felt pressure. However saying he was thoroughly out-performed by barichello is incorrect.
If we take Germany as being the half way point in the season the finishes between jenson button and rubens barichello were
Jenson finished ahead of Rubens 5 times Rubens finished ahead of Jenson 4 times (including the retirement)
Well there was a bit of fortune behind that, Barrichello had none but was consistently the faster Brawn. In Germany he had a pit stop problem, Spa he fell to the back at the start, Singapore he took a penalty, as he did at Suzuka and in Brazil he got a puncture at the end. He also was ahead 36 points to 34 despite all this. Button on the other hand had perfect reliability and his only misfortune was when Grosjean took him out in Belgium. I am not bashing Button here just saying it as I see it. All in all he deserved his title and his race in Brazil was superb.
Edit: To the guy above, that was McLarens call in China not Lewis' but I agree it was foolish.
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
When Button won his championship, Brawn didn't have the budget to develop throughout the season like the other teams. That's why he faded. Not because of any "pressure".
While it is true that the Brawn faded, he was thoroughly out-performed by Barrichello in the second half of the season. He felt the pressure, it is only natural, Button himself admitted as much.
While i wont disagree with you saying button felt pressure. However saying he was thoroughly out-performed by barichello is incorrect.
If we take Germany as being the half way point in the season the finishes between jenson button and rubens barichello were
Jenson finished ahead of Rubens 5 times Rubens finished ahead of Jenson 4 times (including the retirement)
Well there was a bit of fortune behind that, Barrichello had none but was consistently the faster Brawn. In Germany he had a pit stop problem, Spa he fell to the back at the start, Singapore he took a penalty, as he did at Suzuka and in Brazil he got a puncture at the end. He also was ahead 36 points to 34 despite all this. Button on the other hand had perfect reliability and his only misfortune was when Grosjean took him out in Belgium. I am not bashing Button here just saying it as I see it. All in all he deserved his title and his race in Brazil was superb.
Edit: To the guy above, that was McLarens call in China not Lewis' but I agree it was foolish.
I meant Lewis' aggressiveness in Brazil, but yeah, it was not his fault entirely (McLaren did not handle that situation intelligently).
On July 24 2011 23:48 EliteReplay wrote: im the only one wait for vettel to do an overtaking? and when he does is in the pitlane? lol Vettel just know how to drive from pole nothing else.
Hamilton is the real driver here, Hello hamilton haters :D
Maybe Vettel thinks that the only possibility to lose the title is to take risks and crash into someone. I think the end of the race proved him right.
Additional to that McLaren (and Ferrari) are faster in a straight line and that's the safer place to overtake someone.
I think he'll probally do a Button to win the Championship
Every smart driver would do a Button to win a Championship, if it's possible.
every smart driver would have an amazing start thanks to having the fastest car and then fade around the mid point of the season due to pressure ?
I think every smart driver would like to do a Schuy and just win it asap
When Button won his championship, Brawn didn't have the budget to develop throughout the season like the other teams. That's why he faded. Not because of any "pressure".
While it is true that the Brawn faded, he was thoroughly out-performed by Barrichello in the second half of the season. He felt the pressure, it is only natural, Button himself admitted as much.
While i wont disagree with you saying button felt pressure. However saying he was thoroughly out-performed by barichello is incorrect.
If we take Germany as being the half way point in the season the finishes between jenson button and rubens barichello were
Jenson finished ahead of Rubens 5 times Rubens finished ahead of Jenson 4 times (including the retirement)
Well there was a bit of fortune behind that, Barrichello had none but was consistently the faster Brawn. In Germany he had a pit stop problem, Spa he fell to the back at the start, Singapore he took a penalty, as he did at Suzuka and in Brazil he got a puncture at the end. He also was ahead 36 points to 34 despite all this. Button on the other hand had perfect reliability and his only misfortune was when Grosjean took him out in Belgium. I am not bashing Button here just saying it as I see it. All in all he deserved his title and his race in Brazil was superb.
Edit: To the guy above, that was McLarens call in China not Lewis' but I agree it was foolish.
I meant Lewis' aggressiveness in Brazil, but yeah, it was not his fault entirely (McLaren did not handle that situation intelligently).
His gearbox malfunctioned in Brazil, that is what cost him the title.
Only half of the F1 races will be free to view on the BBC from 2014, as they and Sky have signed a joint deal. This is a real shame, as the BBC coverage has been fantastic. Gutted.
Extremely disappointed with this news. Hopefully the beeb allow sky to use Martin, Jake and Ted for their coverage and dont run adverts during the race. I doubt it, but a man can hope. I didnt expect it either, for one I thought the teams wouldnt accept it (less viewer = less money from sponsors) and the viewing figures have been extremely high (only MOTD has better for a sport). Cost for cost it pisses on Wimbledon for example.
Edit: Brundle- BBC/Sky/F1 2012+. Found out last night, no idea how it will work yet I'm out of contract, will calmly work through options Not impressed.
<3 MB he always says what he thinks.
Edit 2: Just looking into it more it seems Bernie didnt tell the teams, oh my god there is a shitstorm about to go down I promise you. Back to the talk of a breakaway series?
Only half of the F1 races will be free to view on the BBC from 2014, as they and Sky have signed a joint deal. This is a real shame, as the BBC coverage has been fantastic. Gutted.
Even though I have the full SkyHD package this is a fucking joke. F1 Corp are a joke, this will massivley harm F1's viewing figures, which thanks to the BBC has been on the rise... why now do they want to fuck those numbers into the ground for an extra few million is pathatic. I hope all the teams protest about this on just a morral level.
Only half of the F1 races will be free to view on the BBC from 2014, as they and Sky have signed a joint deal. This is a real shame, as the BBC coverage has been fantastic. Gutted.
So this doesn't affect US viewers does it? Still sounds terrible either way.
back to the racing... lets hope Lewis's P1 form can be some indication of the real pace... in germany he was way off the pace, and was silly close to getting pole... now he's on the pace in practice does that mean that he can actually make pole a reality??
The F1 coverage on the BBC always feels so special.
Just to explain to non UK residents. There are only 5 channels that any tv in the UK can recieve: BBC1, BBC2, ITV, Channel 5, Channel 5. You can get these with no freeview box or subscriptions (eg Sky), Infact you can jam a metal coat hangar into old TV's as an aerial and get them.
Not only is the BBC F1 coverage immaculate, but because it takes over one of our 'original' tv channels all day it just feels special (Note to Brits: remember when we only had the 5 channels and everyone used to watch Blind date and then Gladiators on the weekend lawl!).
I'm gutted, I have SkyHD but don't subscribe to the sports channels, and I won't be for this. An extra £20 per month to watch (more than likely) ad riddled coverage?
I was really getting in to F1 this season too probably due to the good job the BEEB has been doing.
The same thing is happening in my country where they have sold the rights to the Olympic games to a commercial channel. SO MUCH bullshit.
This will harm F1 greatly since so many people all over the world watch it via BBC. Their coverage is simply the best and I can't understand Bernie Ecclestone's reasoning in the matter. Short term, this will make F1 some more money but in the long term this will hurt the popularity and availability of the sport.
On July 29 2011 22:16 Gridlock wrote: The F1 coverage on the BBC always feels so special.
Just to explain to non UK residents. There are only 5 channels that any tv in the UK can recieve: BBC1, BBC2, ITV, Channel 5, Channel 5. You can get these with no freeview box or subscriptions (eg Sky), Infact you can jam a metal coat hangar into old TV's as an aerial and get them.
Not only is the BBC F1 coverage immaculate, but because it takes over one of our 'original' tv channels all day it just feels special (Note to Brits: remember when we only had the 5 channels and everyone used to watch Blind date and then Gladiators on the weekend lawl!).
I'm gutted, I have SkyHD but don't subscribe to the sports channels, and I won't be for this. An extra £20 per month to watch (more than likely) ad riddled coverage?
I was really getting in to F1 this season too probably due to the good job the BEEB has been doing.
Money > All
There will be no ads during the race. That is confirmed. Team principals were meeting Bernie during FP2 today, I await the outcome of that.
As for the race this weekend, it is looking good for McLaren. While the low fuel runs cant really be used as a decent gauge of pace until FP3 (fuel loads and sandbagging) the high fuel race pace runs are. In Germany McLaren were 2 or 3 tenths off the pace of Red Bull and Ferrari whereas today they seem to be the pacesetters by a tenth or two. Red Bull seem even slower though, whats happened? Have they been trying new parts today that are not working or what? Tomorrow should be very interesting.
That is really major news about the BBC. Has there been any word regarding the "World Feed" that is essentially the BBC nowadays ?
If it is any indication, in Israel the races were on the free sports channel on cable for many years, they were getting a lot of attention and people were always talking about it in the forums. Then a few years ago they moved it to a specialized sports channel which doesn't come with the basic cable package and I can barely find anyone that watches it anymore besides the die-hard fans.
On July 29 2011 22:52 Noam wrote: That is really major news about the BBC. Has there been any word regarding the "World Feed" that is essentially the BBC nowadays ?
If it is any indication, in Israel the races were on the free sports channel on cable for many years, they were getting a lot of attention and people were always talking about it in the forums. Then a few years ago they moved it to a specialized sports channel which doesn't come with the basic cable package and I can barely find anyone that watches it anymore besides the die-hard fans.
Not entirely sure what you mean here. The "world feed" is made by and distributed by FOM, and they use the commentary team from 5live (BBC radio) which will still cover every practice, quali and race session the same as always.
Edit: I mean they use the commentary 5live team for the trackside portable tv service. I forget the name of it.
I think any criticism aimed at the BBC is harsh. They've got a fantastic deal for the license payer; all the build up, qualifying etc... Half the races including Monaco + Silverstone and full highlights on Sunday night.
We mustn't let our dislike of Sky get in the way of the reality that money has to be saved.
edit: a good point many are making though is that maybe the BBC should be allowed to charge extra for some service. F1 has lots of viewers that don't care about sky but would want F1. BBC could charge an extra £100 a year or something, that's a hell of a lot less than the £600 Sky want.
On July 30 2011 02:15 Klive5ive wrote: I think any criticism aimed at the BBC is harsh. They've got a fantastic deal for the license payer; all the build up, qualifying etc... Half the races including Monaco + Silverstone and full highlights on Sunday night.
We mustn't let our dislike of Sky get in the way of the reality that money has to be saved.
edit: a good point many are making though is that maybe the BBC should be allowed to charge extra for some service. F1 has lots of viewers that don't care about sky but would want F1. BBC could charge an extra £100 a year or something, that's a hell of a lot less than the £600 Sky want.
IF... they show the full race as "highlights" and save £30m (which Bernie says is up to the BBC) then I am fine with that. I would just avoid the result and sky (even though I have sky I know the coverage will be shit). It doesnt change the fact that not all sports will suffer from the cuts. Notably Wimbledon as I said previously. Why didnt they just give sky the womens side of that Viewing figures as I said are the second highest of any sport in F1, I just cant see how they justify this decision.
Only half of the F1 races will be free to view on the BBC from 2014, as they and Sky have signed a joint deal. This is a real shame, as the BBC coverage has been fantastic. Gutted.
So this doesn't affect US viewers does it? Still sounds terrible either way.
Sure it does. I watch the BBC feed whenever I can. Speed/Fox's coverage is an atrocity. The commentators are only slightly above worthless at best. Not to mention the commercial breaks every 3 minutes. Considering I only subscribe to the sports package that Speed comes in for F1 coverage, I would gladly pay 20 bucks a month just for a BBC F1 subscription. It's just so many levels above any other broadcast I've seen.
The BBC/Sky deal is definitely a shame, but I suppose that F1 wants to raise their revenue and Sky could better provide that.
But, in happier news, Jenson Button will race his 200th race this weekend! An extraordinary achievement for a driver who has only really come into the spotlight in recent years.
gutted about Lewis making the error on the last corner, that pole was his!!!! though with both him and button behind vettel I'm hoping we see him crack and Lewis can take the win...
Also happy for Masa beating Alonso in quali... should be a good race!!
On July 31 2011 08:34 baldgye wrote: gutted about Lewis making the error on the last corner, that pole was his!!!! though with both him and button behind vettel I'm hoping we see him crack and Lewis can take the win...
Also happy for Masa beating Alonso in quali... should be a good race!!
at least hamilton still has a brand new set of super softs which the others dont have.
On July 29 2011 22:52 Noam wrote: That is really major news about the BBC. Has there been any word regarding the "World Feed" that is essentially the BBC nowadays ?
If it is any indication, in Israel the races were on the free sports channel on cable for many years, they were getting a lot of attention and people were always talking about it in the forums. Then a few years ago they moved it to a specialized sports channel which doesn't come with the basic cable package and I can barely find anyone that watches it anymore besides the die-hard fans.
Not entirely sure what you mean here. The "world feed" is made by and distributed by FOM, and they use the commentary team from 5live (BBC radio) which will still cover every practice, quali and race session the same as always.
Edit: I mean they use the commentary 5live team for the trackside portable tv service. I forget the name of it.
Brundle keeps welcoming his "tens of millions of viewers from around the world" during qualifying and the race, I assume that means FOM is using BBC1's commentary.
That qualifying session sure brought back old memories. Vettel seemingly behind the pace until the very last run where he "magically" pulls an amazing lap. Is it really just learning the tires and understanding the grip level or is he holding back to keep the rest of the pack unaware?
On July 29 2011 22:52 Noam wrote: That is really major news about the BBC. Has there been any word regarding the "World Feed" that is essentially the BBC nowadays ?
If it is any indication, in Israel the races were on the free sports channel on cable for many years, they were getting a lot of attention and people were always talking about it in the forums. Then a few years ago they moved it to a specialized sports channel which doesn't come with the basic cable package and I can barely find anyone that watches it anymore besides the die-hard fans.
Not entirely sure what you mean here. The "world feed" is made by and distributed by FOM, and they use the commentary team from 5live (BBC radio) which will still cover every practice, quali and race session the same as always.
Edit: I mean they use the commentary 5live team for the trackside portable tv service. I forget the name of it.
Brundle keeps welcoming his "tens of millions of viewers from around the world" during qualifying and the race, I assume that means FOM is using BBC1's commentary.
That qualifying session sure brought back old memories. Vettel seemingly behind the pace until the very last run where he "magically" pulls an amazing lap. Is it really just learning the tires and understanding the grip level or is he holding back to keep the rest of the pack unaware?
No way. Vettel was absolutely going for it. You could see that on the onboard camera. This whole thing off "holding back" doesn't make sense. of course for your final run all the drivers absolutely go for it, so the last run is usually going to be the quickest.
On July 29 2011 22:52 Noam wrote: That is really major news about the BBC. Has there been any word regarding the "World Feed" that is essentially the BBC nowadays ?
If it is any indication, in Israel the races were on the free sports channel on cable for many years, they were getting a lot of attention and people were always talking about it in the forums. Then a few years ago they moved it to a specialized sports channel which doesn't come with the basic cable package and I can barely find anyone that watches it anymore besides the die-hard fans.
Not entirely sure what you mean here. The "world feed" is made by and distributed by FOM, and they use the commentary team from 5live (BBC radio) which will still cover every practice, quali and race session the same as always.
Edit: I mean they use the commentary 5live team for the trackside portable tv service. I forget the name of it.
Brundle keeps welcoming his "tens of millions of viewers from around the world" during qualifying and the race, I assume that means FOM is using BBC1's commentary.
That qualifying session sure brought back old memories. Vettel seemingly behind the pace until the very last run where he "magically" pulls an amazing lap. Is it really just learning the tires and understanding the grip level or is he holding back to keep the rest of the pack unaware?
Thats just directed at the people who get BBC, such as Australia. FOM just provide pictures, and use 5live at the trackside. As for quali, they both made mistakes and went 4 tenths slower than their first run in the last sector. They were both very good in the first two though. Red Bull always save some speed for Q3, its not a trait of Vettel but of the team.
On July 31 2011 08:34 baldgye wrote: gutted about Lewis making the error on the last corner, that pole was his!!!! though with both him and button behind vettel I'm hoping we see him crack and Lewis can take the win...
Also happy for Masa beating Alonso in quali... should be a good race!!
at least hamilton still has a brand new set of super softs which the others dont have.
idd... though is he on the dirty side of the track??? Either way I think that Hammy's best chance to win a race is today... he only has 1 person to fight..
LOL vetel is poor driver look how Hamilton passed him, later on button too lol, for all vetel lovers that guy just know how to drive from the pole, doesnt have the character to maintain a good driver behind him.
Seems like the fire started in the pit when they put him down after putting on the tires, unlucky track guy getting hit there when something exploded on the car (tire?)
I'm a McLaren fan first and foremost, so I'm happy for Button to win the race if Hamilton can't, but I wish people, Button included, wouldn't rate these "tyre choice decisions" so highly. When the reality is the only reason Button makes these seemingly crazy calls that come good is because he has no chance of winning the race if he doesn't take a risk, he has essentially nothing to lose by taking the risk because there are literally no conditions, or stages within a race where he can be said to be faster than Lewis..
Great drive by Jens, that battle with Lewis was awesome when it started raining again. Shame for Hamilton though, two bad calls and a harsh penalty cost him dearly. Alonso should have beaten Vettel too but for a bad call. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Very entertaining GP.
On July 31 2011 22:54 Aristodemus wrote: Great drive by Jens, that battle with Lewis was awesome when it started raining again. Shame for Hamilton though, two bad calls and a harsh penalty cost him dearly. Alonso should have beaten Vettel too but for a bad call. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Very entertaining GP.
Personally I think the only "bad" call was the second set of softer tyres when the other front runners (button, vettel etc) went onto the hard tyres.
The intermediate call was literally the only possible chance to salvage a race win by taking a risk at that point, cos button was right behind him on tyres that would make it to the end of the race whereas Hamilton's wouldn't
On July 31 2011 22:54 Aristodemus wrote: Great drive by Jens, that battle with Lewis was awesome when it started raining again. Shame for Hamilton though, two bad calls and a harsh penalty cost him dearly. Alonso should have beaten Vettel too but for a bad call. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Very entertaining GP.
Alonso shouldn't have beaten anybody. The only reason he was in spitting distance of Vettel was a bad call for Vettel. The only reason he beat Hamilton and Webber were bad calls for them.
Alonso spent way too much time on off-circuit cartography.
On July 31 2011 22:45 NikonTC wrote: I'm a McLaren fan first and foremost, so I'm happy for Button to win the race if Hamilton can't, but I wish people, Button included, wouldn't rate these "tyre choice decisions" so highly. When the reality is the only reason Button makes these seemingly crazy calls that come good is because he has no chance of winning the race if he doesn't take a risk, he has essentially nothing to lose by taking the risk because there are literally no conditions, or stages within a race where he can be said to be faster than Lewis..
Button did not make any crazy calls, Hamilton did though. Putting intermediate tyres when the forecasts announce rain for only 10 minutes IS pretty risky. It's a shame, because Hamilton did an amazing job (again).
On July 31 2011 21:53 Sazchu wrote: Seems like the fire started in the pit when they put him down after putting on the tires, unlucky track guy getting hit there when something exploded on the car (tire?)
Heidfeld said on german TV that the pit stop took a long time and that led to the car heating up (wtf?). He hoped it would cool down once he started driving again, apparently that happens sometimes. Obviously it didnt this time ...
On July 31 2011 22:45 NikonTC wrote: I'm a McLaren fan first and foremost, so I'm happy for Button to win the race if Hamilton can't, but I wish people, Button included, wouldn't rate these "tyre choice decisions" so highly. When the reality is the only reason Button makes these seemingly crazy calls that come good is because he has no chance of winning the race if he doesn't take a risk, he has essentially nothing to lose by taking the risk because there are literally no conditions, or stages within a race where he can be said to be faster than Lewis..
Button did not make any crazy calls, Hamilton did though. Putting intermediate tyres when the forecasts announce rain for only 10 minutes IS pretty risky. It's a shame, because Hamilton did an amazing job (again).
Like I said in my post above though, the intermediate call was pretty much the only way to try and win the race. The damage was done when it turned out due to track conditions that the 3 stop was faster than the 4 stop.
On July 31 2011 21:53 Sazchu wrote: Seems like the fire started in the pit when they put him down after putting on the tires, unlucky track guy getting hit there when something exploded on the car (tire?)
Heidfeld said on german TV that the pit stop took a long time and that led to the car heating up (wtf?). He hoped it would cool down once he started driving again, apparently that happens sometimes. Obviously it didnt this time ...
F1 cars don't have any fans or anything. They rely on air passing through the car for cooling; they heat up quickly while stationary.
On July 31 2011 22:54 Aristodemus wrote: Great drive by Jens, that battle with Lewis was awesome when it started raining again. Shame for Hamilton though, two bad calls and a harsh penalty cost him dearly. Alonso should have beaten Vettel too but for a bad call. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Very entertaining GP.
Alonso shouldn't have beaten anybody. The only reason he was in spitting distance of Vettel was a bad call for Vettel. The only reason he beat Hamilton and Webber were bad calls for them.
Alonso spent way too much time on off-circuit cartography.
I dont agree with that, he was much faster than Webber all day. Maybe you have a point about Vettel staying out a lap too late but it was much less of a mistake than not fitting primes.
On July 31 2011 22:54 Aristodemus wrote: Great drive by Jens, that battle with Lewis was awesome when it started raining again. Shame for Hamilton though, two bad calls and a harsh penalty cost him dearly. Alonso should have beaten Vettel too but for a bad call. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Very entertaining GP.
Alonso shouldn't have beaten anybody. The only reason he was in spitting distance of Vettel was a bad call for Vettel. The only reason he beat Hamilton and Webber were bad calls for them.
Alonso spent way too much time on off-circuit cartography.
I dont agree with that, he was much faster than Webber all day. Maybe you have a point about Vettel staying out a lap too late but it was much less of a mistake than not fitting primes.
By all day you're perhaps refering to when Webber passed him?
Or when Alonso passed Webber on pit-stop strategy? Or When Alonso was on options and Webber was on primes?
Yeah, Alonso was faster in some phases of the GP, but he would not have passed Webber without going on the options. There was no chance for him to get back on the primes and retain his position.
Oh yeah, anyone wanna talk about Hamilton's penalty? I don't like it. He spun the car perfectly and left enough room to be passed, sure there was no way for the other driver to know that, but making another driver think he needs to leave the track is a harsh thing to penalise for. Maybe It was closer than I thought?
I guess the one thing is you can't really encourage such a thing because if a driver attempts that and does screw it up and the other driver drives assuming he wont there will be a serious accident.
interesting race, gutted for Lewis was his race to loose, and he lost it due to strategy. Good result for Button, but I think without Lewis on the podium and with Seb on the podium its pretty safe to call the WC over.
On July 31 2011 22:54 Aristodemus wrote: Great drive by Jens, that battle with Lewis was awesome when it started raining again. Shame for Hamilton though, two bad calls and a harsh penalty cost him dearly. Alonso should have beaten Vettel too but for a bad call. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Very entertaining GP.
Alonso shouldn't have beaten anybody. The only reason he was in spitting distance of Vettel was a bad call for Vettel. The only reason he beat Hamilton and Webber were bad calls for them.
Alonso spent way too much time on off-circuit cartography.
I dont agree with that, he was much faster than Webber all day. Maybe you have a point about Vettel staying out a lap too late but it was much less of a mistake than not fitting primes.
By all day you're perhaps refering to when Webber passed him?
Or when Alonso passed Webber on pit-stop strategy? Or When Alonso was on options and Webber was on primes?
Yeah, Alonso was faster in some phases of the GP, but he would not have passed Webber without going on the options. There was no chance for him to get back on the primes and retain his position.
Oh yeah, anyone wanna talk about Hamilton's penalty? I don't like it. He spun the car perfectly and left enough room to be passed, sure there was no way for the other driver to know that, but making another driver think he needs to leave the track is a harsh thing to penalise for. Maybe It was closer than I thought?
I guess the one thing is you can't really encourage such a thing because if a driver attempts that and does screw it up and the other driver drives assuming he wont there will be a serious accident.
It was probally fair... you can't force cars off the track, and he'd already lost the race. And Lewis is the stuards fav driver so I wasn't surprised. Drivers like Lewis never have stuards opinions go in there favor.
On July 31 2011 22:54 Aristodemus wrote: Great drive by Jens, that battle with Lewis was awesome when it started raining again. Shame for Hamilton though, two bad calls and a harsh penalty cost him dearly. Alonso should have beaten Vettel too but for a bad call. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Very entertaining GP.
Alonso shouldn't have beaten anybody. The only reason he was in spitting distance of Vettel was a bad call for Vettel. The only reason he beat Hamilton and Webber were bad calls for them.
Alonso spent way too much time on off-circuit cartography.
I dont agree with that, he was much faster than Webber all day. Maybe you have a point about Vettel staying out a lap too late but it was much less of a mistake than not fitting primes.
By all day you're perhaps refering to when Webber passed him?
Or when Alonso passed Webber on pit-stop strategy? Or When Alonso was on options and Webber was on primes?
Yeah, Alonso was faster in some phases of the GP, but he would not have passed Webber without going on the options. There was no chance for him to get back on the primes and retain his position.
Oh yeah, anyone wanna talk about Hamilton's penalty? I don't like it. He spun the car perfectly and left enough room to be passed, sure there was no way for the other driver to know that, but making another driver think he needs to leave the track is a harsh thing to penalise for. Maybe It was closer than I thought?
I guess the one thing is you can't really encourage such a thing because if a driver attempts that and does screw it up and the other driver drives assuming he wont there will be a serious accident.
He was passed because of Ferrari's tyre warming issues. He was just faster today, simple as that. As for the penalty, well I have said before I dont like this culture of penalties for almost everything that happens on track. The incident itself he was going to force all three cars off the track if he remained stationary.I dont think it should have been punished, but I wonder why Vettel wasnt punished for going purple (by more than 1sec in s2) while he went off track.
"Alonso was faster, except for when he wasn't faster, but there was a reason he wasn't faster, so actually he was faster"
Maybe, in the phases he was faster than Webber there were reasons for that too? Maybe that magically doesn't count too? :O
But I guess that Webber was going to beat him but for the rain actually just proves how unlucky Alonso was not to beat Vettel as well like you say. Especially with all that going off the track and spinning.
On July 31 2011 22:54 Aristodemus wrote: Great drive by Jens, that battle with Lewis was awesome when it started raining again. Shame for Hamilton though, two bad calls and a harsh penalty cost him dearly. Alonso should have beaten Vettel too but for a bad call. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Very entertaining GP.
Alonso shouldn't have beaten anybody. The only reason he was in spitting distance of Vettel was a bad call for Vettel. The only reason he beat Hamilton and Webber were bad calls for them.
Alonso spent way too much time on off-circuit cartography.
I dont agree with that, he was much faster than Webber all day. Maybe you have a point about Vettel staying out a lap too late but it was much less of a mistake than not fitting primes.
Oh yeah, anyone wanna talk about Hamilton's penalty? I don't like it. He spun the car perfectly and left enough room to be passed, sure there was no way for the other driver to know that, but making another driver think he needs to leave the track is a harsh thing to penalise for. Maybe It was closer than I thought?
You can't perform a spin like that if the way isn't free. The German commentators instantly said that he could get punished for it.
The championship has been over for a LONG time; I wish they'd just stop talking about it.
Today was about a really interesting race and a really good drive by Jensen. Somehow he found some really good pace today and found the best strategy too; he also made a really nice pass on Vettel during the rainy phase to secure the win.
Alonso struggled today, the comment by Jensen as they were setting up for the podium was classic "what happened to you?".... Alonso replies "Traffic!" Little bit of trolling by Jensen I reckon.
As for Hamilton; his race was over when they decided to put the Super Softs on. The BBC commentators got it dead wrong when they kept going on about the choice to go onto Inters... it was irrelevant by that point. The SS wasn't working in the conditions, he had no gap and he had to pit again. Maybe could've fought for 3rd but even that's debatable.
On July 31 2011 22:54 Aristodemus wrote: Great drive by Jens, that battle with Lewis was awesome when it started raining again. Shame for Hamilton though, two bad calls and a harsh penalty cost him dearly. Alonso should have beaten Vettel too but for a bad call. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Very entertaining GP.
Alonso shouldn't have beaten anybody. The only reason he was in spitting distance of Vettel was a bad call for Vettel. The only reason he beat Hamilton and Webber were bad calls for them.
Alonso spent way too much time on off-circuit cartography.
I dont agree with that, he was much faster than Webber all day. Maybe you have a point about Vettel staying out a lap too late but it was much less of a mistake than not fitting primes.
Oh yeah, anyone wanna talk about Hamilton's penalty? I don't like it. He spun the car perfectly and left enough room to be passed, sure there was no way for the other driver to know that, but making another driver think he needs to leave the track is a harsh thing to penalise for. Maybe It was closer than I thought?
You can't perform a spin like that if the way isn't free. The German commentators instantly said that he could get punished for it.
I think it was harsh, but I can agree with why they did it.
On July 31 2011 23:47 Klive5ive wrote: The championship has been over for a LONG time; I wish they'd just stop talking about it.
I disagree with that completally. The championship was starting to come alive, yeah Vettel had a HUGE lead but RB was falling behind in pace and Vettel was starting to crack.
Last season even towards the end (korea) they had reliability problems... I'm of the opinion that if Vettel finished outside the top 5 today and Lewis had won with Alonso 2nd the championship was more than up for grabs.
But with Vettel getting a 2nd today I do now think that there is no chance of anyone beating him.
On July 31 2011 23:42 Lachrymose wrote: It's impossible to talk to you.
"Actually it was how I said. Simple as that."
"Alonso was faster, except for when he wasn't faster, but there was a reason he wasn't faster, so actually he was faster"
Maybe, in the phases he was faster than Webber there were reasons for that too? Maybe that magically doesn't count too? :O
But I guess that Webber was going to beat him but for the rain actually just proves how unlucky Alonso was not to beat Vettel as well like you say. Especially with all that going off the track and spinning.
He was faster, I cant see how you interpret it any other way. You really cant accept it I guess. Anyone watching from a neutral point of view can see that.
On July 31 2011 23:47 Klive5ive wrote: The championship has been over for a LONG time; I wish they'd just stop talking about it.
I disagree with that completally. The championship was starting to come alive, yeah Vettel had a HUGE lead but RB was falling behind in pace and Vettel was starting to crack.
Last season even towards the end (korea) they had reliability problems... I'm of the opinion that if Vettel finished outside the top 5 today and Lewis had won with Alonso 2nd the championship was more than up for grabs.
But with Vettel getting a 2nd today I do now think that there is no chance of anyone beating him.
It's not going to rain every race until the end of the season. Wishful thinking only goes so far!
On July 31 2011 23:47 Klive5ive wrote: The championship has been over for a LONG time; I wish they'd just stop talking about it.
I disagree with that completally. The championship was starting to come alive, yeah Vettel had a HUGE lead but RB was falling behind in pace and Vettel was starting to crack.
Last season even towards the end (korea) they had reliability problems... I'm of the opinion that if Vettel finished outside the top 5 today and Lewis had won with Alonso 2nd the championship was more than up for grabs.
But with Vettel getting a 2nd today I do now think that there is no chance of anyone beating him.
It's not going to rain every race until the end of the season. Wishful thinking only goes so far!
...?
In the last two races the McLarens have been faster or equal to the RBs in the dry. Lewis had P1 in quali but lost it due to a mistake, they have the pace and have caught RB, as have Ferrari.
It's just also happens to be that McLaren also have to two best wet drivers out there.
The McLarens perform well under "not so hot" conditions. Thats a reason why they were pretty good the last two races. They have caught up to RB but if todays weather had been like it was in Hungary in the past, RB would have had an advantage. At least thats my opinion
On August 01 2011 00:10 RmpL wrote: The McLarens perform well under "not so hot" conditions. Thats a reason why they were pretty good the last two races. They have caught up to RB but if todays weather had been like it was in Hungary in the past, RB would have had an advantage. At least thats my opinion
Fully agree, but I think they will be strong in Spa again as its a track that traditionally suits their cars.
Congratulations to Button for an amazing 200th race! Hamilton had some bad luck but he still proved how fast he can be, Vettel is just ridiculously consistent though, 4th is his worst result this season and that was the only time he wasn't on the podium. Alonso showed once more that he can be in the running but things didn't quite go his way again. Good work from Paul Di Resta getting his best result so far with P7.
Heidfeld's car catching fire and exploding was pretty nuts, partially blocking the end of the pit lane too lol.
Heys guys, seen as we are in the break I thought I would bring up some issues you can share opinions on.
1. The greatest track left on the calendar is at risk. Spa is being touted as an alternate race with a new French GP. How do you feel about this? http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7093338/-Belgium-and-France-to-alternate-races- My opinion is pretty clear, Spa, Monaco, Silverstone and Monza should ALWAYS have a place in the calendar. They are F1 to me. 2. Gilles Simon is leaving the FIA engine regulation to join a new manufacturer (Pure), basically he has intimate knowledge of every engine on the grid. Is this fair or even ethical? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93499 I think he should have a two year (atleast) cooldown if he wishes to work privately in F1. It is unfair to the teams who spend millions in development to have this technology "stolen". 3. Pirelli have confirmed they have offered to provide a qualifying tyre like in the 80's starting next year and are awaiting feedback from the teams and the FIA. Thoughts? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93716 I would love this! Will make qualifying more of a unique skill, and is the reason Senna was and is regarded as the GOAT. Personally I would keep it the same as now but give two sets of qualifying tyres to those who make it to the top ten. Then we would see a real pole shootout instead of drivers not wanting to ruin race tyres. 4. Pirelli also confirmed they will not use the hard tyre this season. Ferrari must be ecstatic with this news, McLaren not so much. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93680
Now its back on the same weekend as MLG UFC and premiership football, so much action this weekend im glad its a bank holiday over here in England so i can take it all in xD
Hamilton Button Vettell
is my prediction for the weekends race, Mclarens finally looking strong!
On August 26 2011 17:29 Noam wrote: Shameless bump
I am very excited for the race this weekend, I can't handle these long breaks anymore.
Aristodemus, thanks a lot for that post! Any other F1 news worth sharing?
Your welcome As for other news it is a little light due to the holiday. Bruno Senna has replaced Nick Heidfeld in the Renault for Spa and is suing the team over it in response. He believes he has a solid contract. I guess this means he will be out of the car forever now as they will not want him back. Its a shame I feel for him as he has outperformed Raikonnen, Webber and held his own against Kubica in his career but never recieved the credit he deserved. As for Kubica, he should be able to start to test an F1 car in a couple of months apparently. I think he wont be in a race seat until next year but we may see him on a friday this season. Fingers crossed on that.
Oh wow that was a long break; hopefully we haven't lost all this year's F1-newcomers from this thread because if there is one race that is worth watching then it's frikkin Spa. A traditional and historical track that is being driven in the short variant, but is still by far the longest track in the whole circuit with over 7km. It's corners are horrifyingly amazing, and it is fast. As in, really fast. 30seconds flat-out sections, that Pouhon double left is just scary, and the Eau Rouge is the ultimate demonstration of insanity: It doesn't look like it on the TV, but from some angles you can figure it out: It goes 18% (EIGHTEEN PERCENT) uphill. If you stand in front of it, it looks like a damn wall. Whereas other racing series go through with 150-180 km/h, here it's made clear why F1 is the pinnacle of racing technology: 300, flat. Once again, let the Brits and Germans battle it out on Belgian soil. Oh snap. Clarkson meme.
Well, last corner before finish line was clearly Maldonado's fault; head to head while turning in, Lewis on the inside and it was a P1 lap (at that time) for him, after all. Down the hill it kinda looked like they were both idiots, but I couldn't really see it because of the poor camera angle, so I won't judge until I find a youtube link with a better camera The fact alone that Lewis slowed down because he wanted to scare off Maldonado tells a lot about him tho.
On August 27 2011 22:18 zere wrote: Well, last corner before finish line was clearly Maldonado's fault; head to head while turning in, Lewis on the inside and it was a P1 lap (at that time) for him, after all. Down the hill it kinda looked like they were both idiots, but I couldn't really see it because of the poor camera angle, so I won't judge until I find a youtube link with a better camera The fact alone that Lewis slowed down because he wanted to scare off Maldonado tells a lot about him tho.
All you need to look for is the angle of Maldonado's car when contact was made. I agree the camera angles were bad but the head on angle shows quite clearly that Maldonado is not even thinking about taking Eau Rouge, he's pointing his car at the wall.
Edit: Should add that the incident happened when the session was ended, neither of them were on a fast lap so there was no reason to be racing.
Edit edit: Talking to some people in the know who are saying that Maldonado had a history of similar incidents/being very hot headed in junior formulae too. He should consider NASCAR.
can't believe Maldonado did that, especially after he already had his lap kinda comprimised by Rubens in front of him and both them went very slow through the chicane.
gonna be interesting to see how Senna does in a better car for the rest of the season.
Well, that is misleading, because it doesn't show how Hamilton zig-zagged around.
€: Yeah, saw it on that other angle now. Lewis' zig-zag was idiotic, but had nothing to do with the collision. Right before the collision, Lewis steers towards the middle of the track, like 1 foot or so, and that's why I initially thought it was something to do with that, but it's just for keeping on course into the right direction. Maldonado cuts it. Or, in this case, he doesn't quite. For F1.
On August 28 2011 01:05 Aristodemus wrote: Reprimand for Hamilton too, what a joke.
He started it ... He waited for Maldonado and moved right once they were next to each other. Nikki Lauda said that both should be penalized on the German television and I agree with him.
On August 28 2011 01:05 Aristodemus wrote: Reprimand for Hamilton too, what a joke.
He started it ... He waited for Maldonado and moved right once they were next to each other. Nikki Lauda said that both should be penalized on the German television and I agree with him.
No he moved (very slightly) to the right before he pulled alongside and almost instantly moved back when he saw him pulling alongside. While we are name dropping Brundle said Maldonado should be thrown out of the race weekend and I agree with him.
Edit:
This is from BBC coverage (although without Brundles opinion)
On August 28 2011 01:05 Aristodemus wrote: Reprimand for Hamilton too, what a joke.
He started it ... He waited for Maldonado and moved right once they were next to each other. Nikki Lauda said that both should be penalized on the German television and I agree with him.
No he moved (very slightly) to the right before he pulled alongside and almost instantly moved back when he saw him pulling alongside. While we are name dropping Brundle said Maldonado should be thrown out of the race weekend and I agree with him.
I just mentioned Lauda, because BBC seems to be biased when British drivers are involved. Hamilton wanted to make a statement on the track and that's not the right way to do it. He provoked Maldonado, who overreacted afterwards.
I think a 5 place grid drop for Maldonado and a reprimand for Hamilton is fine.
Hamilton would probably not get a penalty even if he killed someone now that ex-british drivers are steward advisors, especially now that he has started to play the race card. I am shocking they didn't ban Maldonado and make him clean Hamilton's toilets.
On August 28 2011 02:23 Aristodemus wrote: No he moved (very slightly) to the right before he pulled alongside and almost instantly moved back when he saw him pulling alongside.
The Stewards probably saw it like I did earlier: They probably interpreted his zik-zaking (I'll just call it that way, because it was a bit more than very slightly) as trying to tell Maldonado to gtfo, since Maldonado bumped into him unnecessarily in the last corner. Still, I agree that the collision is in no way Lewis' fault. Pulling right-left had nothing to do with Maldonado driving like a drunk.
On August 28 2011 03:28 vdale wrote:I just mentioned Lauda, because BBC seems to be biased when British drivers are involved.
Actually, the British commentators and stewards get a lot of flak for being too harsh on Hamilton (which they mostly are, actually). Aristodemus will disagree with me on several of Lewis' maneuvers, hehe, but even I do recognize that
On August 28 2011 02:23 Aristodemus wrote: No he moved (very slightly) to the right before he pulled alongside and almost instantly moved back when he saw him pulling alongside.
The Stewards probably saw it like I did earlier: They probably interpreted his zik-zaking (I'll just call it that way, because it was a bit more than very slightly) as trying to tell Maldonado to gtfo, since Maldonado bumped into him unnecessarily in the last corner. Still, I agree that the collision is in no way Lewis' fault. Pulling right-left had nothing to do with Maldonado driving like a drunk.
On August 28 2011 03:28 vdale wrote:I just mentioned Lauda, because BBC seems to be biased when British drivers are involved.
Actually, the British commentators and stewards get a lot of flak for being too harsh on Hamilton (which they mostly are, actually). Aristodemus will disagree with me on several of Lewis' maneuvers, hehe, but even I do recognize that
No, I agree with most of that If you want to hand out reprimands for something so minor then we will have very busy stewards from now on. I dont agree it was provoking him, I think he was surprised to see him pulling alongside him (turning to the right hand side for eau rouge is normal) and he moved back very quickly. Lewis does get alot of shit from the BBC, mainly from Coulthard and Lee. Every single incident involving Lewis gets the "Well I think he will get a drive-through for that Martin" while he blames other drivers who DiResta drives into. Today Hamilton, Vettel and Massa set green (purple in Hamiltons case) sectors when Schumacher went off but he was calling for a sanction for Lewis only. As for Maldonado the only real similar example I cant think of is Schumacher-Villeneuve from 97 which he was excluded from the championship (albeit an incident in a race not a closed session). I dont think he deserved that but a 5 place penalty is extremely soft in my view. As MB alluded to, it sets a very bad example to kids in junior formula. Exclusion from the race weekend in my view would have been just.
It may be that I only ever hear the negatives because that's all the BBC passes on, but I'm starting to really dislike Niki Lauda. ALL the comments I ever hear from him are just negative "he shouldn't have done that, he is bad, he makes mistakes" etc. And not just about lewis hamilton either, about lots of the drviers on the grid, alonso, schumacher, webber, button. Constant whining and critisism. Although strangely not for the golden boy vettel..
Quite honestly Lauda, these days you're just a homophobic quack that believes in the healing powers of magnets and crystals. And you seem completely out of touch with modern forumla 1, so forgive me for not taking anything you say seriously.
Watching the footage, I'm not sure that Maldonado intended to make contact. He think he wanted to aggressively pull across in front of Hamilton to make a point and misjudged it. In any case, childish and incompetent driving, and he should be more severely punished.
As for Maldonado the only real similar example I cant think of is Schumacher-Villeneuve from 97 which he was excluded from the championship (albeit an incident in a race not a closed session). I dont think he deserved that but a 5 place penalty is extremely soft in my view. As MB alluded to, it sets a very bad example to kids in junior formula. Exclusion from the race weekend in my view would have been just.
Maldonado setting a bad example? Have you been watching F1 in 2011? Hamilton hit someone in the pit lanes at the stop light. Hit Maldonado in Monaco AFTER knocking Massa and getting a DT penalty, claimed he was being targetted because he is black, even though he got no real penalty for that (should have been a real DT penalty instead of a retrospective time addition). He got no penalty for bringing the sport into disrepute for claiming racism. Tangled with his own teammate in Canada (though atleast Button came out the winner in that!), tangled with Di Resta in Hungary.
Thats in 2011! Go back to 2008-2010 and you see a string of transgressions with no penalties even. IF anyone is setting a bad example for "kids in junior formula", its this douchebucket.
Oh and this doesn't even include the whole Mclaren espionage episode, the crane incident, the lying to stewards, getting caught and getting the team manager fired. A disgusting human being who lucked into an incredible car and even then has not managed to win a double.
Isn't raining and Schumi is already 8th! And once again Hamilton in an accident. Racing accident this time but just shows that he really needs a talking to! Man if Merc could make a half decent car, schumi would win the championship even now!
I don't see how Hamilton would need a talking to, looks to me like it was Kobayashi's fault, looking good right now for Force India, hoping for both drivers to end in the points.
Great race by Button, and Schumacher! Didn't like the DRS placement in this track though, It was kind of irrelevant. Cars were blasting past each other even when DRS was disabled.
On August 27 2011 21:53 NikonTC wrote: Holy shit that better be the end of maldonado's career. Don't want children like that on the race track.
How about now? Lewis runs Koba off the road, even though he was already under reprimand, its 100% his fault and he gets no penalty. Are you going to ask for the end of Hamilton's career to end?
Today (and yesterday and in general throughout the season) there has been one tantrum throwing child on the race track. Hamilton.
The Hamilton/Kobayashi incident was a racing incident, although if blame has to be apportioned it should be to Hamilton. The whole thing was reminiscent of Vettel and Webber getting together in Turkey in 2010 I think, that was Vettels fault and this one was Hamiltons fault. Having said that I dont think any sort of penalty is required.
Good race though and glad to see Vettel increase his lead.
On August 29 2011 19:17 elsation wrote: The Hamilton/Kobayashi incident was a racing incident, although if blame has to be apportioned it should be to Hamilton. The whole thing was reminiscent of Vettel and Webber getting together in Turkey in 2010 I think, that was Vettels fault and this one was Hamiltons fault. Having said that I dont think any sort of penalty is required.
Good race though and glad to see Vettel increase his lead.
I think you missed the whole part about hamilton admitting 100% culpability and once again escaping punishment. Hamilton moved into Koba. People asked for a ban on Maldonado for an incident that was at most 70:30 (I didn't see it but that is what autosport/bbcf1 was saying), and yet no one is asking for a ban on an incident that is 100:0!
Someone raised an interesting point today. Button has been an overtaking machine this year (mostly because he qualifies badly and has the fastest race trim car) and had one major accident. With Hamilton.
Honestly at this point Hamilton needs a multi-race ban, but we all know that is never going to happen. He is FIA's golden boy to create a new resurgence in F1 popularity in Britain and perhaps even in the US.
TBH to me it seems abit.. suspicious that they don't show onboard footage from Maldonado when he does the crash, i'm fairly sure he clipped him. You dont drive in a straight and accidently ram someone like that. Oh well atleast he's become some sort of a antagonist for me in F1 which is always a good thing, having personal favorites and .. least favorites just makes it more fun to follow
On August 27 2011 21:53 NikonTC wrote: Holy shit that better be the end of maldonado's career. Don't want children like that on the race track.
How about now? Lewis runs Koba off the road, even though he was already under reprimand, its 100% his fault and he gets no penalty. Are you going to ask for the end of Hamilton's career to end?
Today (and yesterday and in general throughout the season) there has been one tantrum throwing child on the race track. Hamilton.
Clearly he thought he had completely passed Kobayashi when he hadn't. That was stupid, but it wasn't a deliberate attempt to take someone out. It's in no way comparable to Maldonado's manoeuvre, obviously. You say you haven't even seen it, so why bother commenting?
Having said that, Hamilton needs to sort himself out. He's always been error-prone, but lately he's making an unacceptable number of risky and poorly-judged moves.
redviper isnt worth responding to, he is just a simple minded hater.
Lewis has apologised and called it 100% his fault which I think is being harsh on himself. He moved over yes but there was still more than a car width of track left to Kamui (even if he wasnt aware how close he was). It was just an unfortunate racing incident. As for a punishment, how about the fact it ended his race. Or was this incident punished? It only didnt involve contact because Hamilton chose to take to the grass.
Some drivers in F1 today have a much worse record of shall we say ethics and yet seems to recieve no level of hate in here. The only real black mark on Lewis' name was the steward incident from Australia. However if he had brake-tested his rivals twice, gone full speed into a double yellow zone (marshals on track) and crashed heavily risking lives, accused the sport of not being a sport, trying to sabotage your team-mates fuel, blocked competitors in the pits, blackmailed his team and conspired to win a GP through cheating you might have a point. I could list a certain Germans many indiscretions too but it would go on way too long.
On August 30 2011 05:45 Aristodemus wrote: Lewis has apologised and called it 100% his fault which I think is being harsh on himself. He moved over yes but there was still more than a car width of track left to Kamui (even if he wasnt aware how close he was). It was just an unfortunate racing incident. As for a punishment, how about the fact it ended his race.
I hate do partially differ with you again, but Kamui hadn't. + Show Spoiler +
I see it like that Kamui was going in a straight line along the straight, Lewis was going in a straight line, as well, but his direction of travel wasn't 100% aligned with the straight track. That's because he overestimated his car to be quicker than Kamui's on the straight - what usually is to be expected. He thought that by the end of the straight he would be way ahead Kamui, but, evidently, he wasn't. Imho Hamilton's only fault was to not double-check whether he underestimated Kamui's car or not. I agree with it being an unfortunate racing incident, no punishment needed. Could have avoided it and continued the race (for podium, probably) by just going on with the overtake, that's his punishment and should be punishment enough for him. I am shocked that I look at 3 of Lewis' situations this weekend and can say that he shouldn't get a punishment for either of them. What's going on with me? :D
On August 30 2011 05:45 Aristodemus wrote: redviper isnt worth responding to, he is just a simple minded hater.
Lewis has apologised and called it 100% his fault which I think is being harsh on himself. He moved over yes but there was still more than a car width of track left to Kamui (even if he wasnt aware how close he was). It was just an unfortunate racing incident. As for a punishment, how about the fact it ended his race. Or was this incident punished? It only didnt involve contact because Hamilton chose to take to the grass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncyLEgjM4rA Some drivers in F1 today have a much worse record of shall we say ethics and yet seems to recieve no level of hate in here. The only real black mark on Lewis' name was the steward incident from Australia. However if he had brake-tested his rivals twice, gone full speed into a double yellow zone (marshals on track) and crashed heavily risking lives, accused the sport of not being a sport, trying to sabotage your team-mates fuel, blocked competitors in the pits, blackmailed his team and conspired to win a GP through cheating you might have a point. I could list a certain Germans many indiscretions too but it would go on way too long.
Way too long is kind of an exageration. Hill Adelaide 94 Villeneuve Herent 97 Barrichello Austria 02 Frentzen Canada 98 Tell me some more.
Wow, from 24th to 5th. I think he is definitely the driver of the day, and what a way to celebrate his 20th anniversary.
I think that is as close as we have come to agreeing Zere <3
As for Schumacher, he has made a career of crashing into his competition rather than being overtaken. This season alone I think he has lost five front wings on the first lap. Coulthard described him last weekend as a man who would do anything to win. I prefer the quote from V for Vendetta when describing Creedy "Its at this point in our story that along comes a spider. He is a man seemingly without a conscience for whom the ends always justify the means". Other major indiscretions to add to your list however could include Barrichello last year at Hungary, blocking the track at Monaco to maintain pole, Ignoring black flags, serving a stop-go after the race in effect not serving it, throwing a tantrum at Spa and ofcourse who could forget his framing of Bertrand Gachot.
ofcourse who could forget his framing of Bertrand Gachot.
Clearly proving why no one from England should be considered as an authority in F1 at all.
Schumacher has made a career of winning, 7 championships, 91 races. Hamilton on the other hand, despite the massive support from the FIA, has made a career of losing.
Atleast Coulthard took being a loser to the commentary box and made some money. I wonder if hamilton will even succeed at doing that!
ofcourse who could forget his framing of Bertrand Gachot.
Clearly proving why no one from England should be considered as an authority in F1 at all.
Schumacher has made a career of winning, 7 championships, 91 races. Hamilton on the other hand, despite the massive support from the FIA, has made a career of losing.
Atleast Coulthard took being a loser to the commentary box and made some money. I wonder if hamilton will even succeed at doing that!
That clearly proves why you didnt understand the Ali G comment or mine, both were jokes
I understood your bad humor, I just didn't respect it. Lewis, on the other hand, wasn't joking, you could see it clearly if you saw the video. He flubbed it, backtracked and pretended it was a joke. Remember Lewis is a proven liar, and a bad one!
Ofcourse even if it was a joke it was a terrible one and deserved sanction from FIA, but they don't want their golden boy to have more controversy.
On August 31 2011 22:29 redviper wrote: I understood your bad humor, I just didn't respect it. Lewis, on the other hand, wasn't joking, you could see it clearly if you saw the video. He flubbed it, backtracked and pretended it was a joke. Remember Lewis is a proven liar, and a bad one!
Ofcourse even if it was a joke it was a terrible one and deserved sanction from FIA, but they don't want their golden boy to have more controversy.
Yeah right, so let me work out this logic. Anyone who makes a joke you dont like can not hold a valid opinion on F1. Not only that but anyone from the same country cant either? Genius. I will take my own advice and ignore your posts now for the drivel they are.
As dodgy as a couple of those moves were, you have to admire Schumacher for his intelligence. I'm sure he was aware of Hamilton's attitude of "I have to finish the race" and that's why he was pushing it so hard and relying on Hamilton to not just make a bold move.
I allways support McLaren Mercedes, but seeing Red Bull run away with it makes me sigh. Though I like to see how well Di Resta is doing, hes usually allways having a good race.
On September 11 2011 22:27 NikonTC wrote: Season seems like a bit of a write off now, which is a shame depending on how this Sky Sports deal works out it might be my last season watching f1.
to be fair, it has been for a while. something would have had to go really wrong for Vettel, he's only been off the podium once all season i think? either way, the sky deal is no doubt gonna suck but at least there's no breaks during the race like there was on ITV.
Well I won't be watching any races on Sky. I refuse to pay a £600 a year subscription for a service that won't be as good as the service I'm getting right now for free. If I watch at all, it will be streaming the blank FOTA stream with no commentary, and listening to the 5-live radio commentary over it.
Edit: Hah. The English fans behind Eddie and Jake chanting "No more sky" xD
Can't believe I missed the race. Hopefully it will go up on the interwebs soon. From the forums it seems Schumi raced like the god he is. Kudos to hamilton for not crashing into Schumi.
Vettel drove very well today, but Schumacher was again showing his skill at forcing people off the track and making numerous blocking moves without getting penalties. It cost Hamilton second, and possibly a fight with Seb although I think he was too fast today.
On September 11 2011 23:52 redviper wrote: Can't believe I missed the race. Hopefully it will go up on the interwebs soon. From the forums it seems Schumi raced like the god he is. Kudos to hamilton for not crashing into Schumi.
It depends on who you ask, if you inquire the English about it they'll tell you Schumacher acted like the bloody criminal he is and is lucky he didn't receive a 15 place punishment for his antics in today's race.
For everyone else, he did an incredible job, indeed.
Well Brundle, Coulthard, Jordan, Button and Charlie Whiting all believe he was being naughty shall we say. People who know a thing or two about racing and more importantly, the rules. Good to see the stewards have a sense of humour too, giving Liuzzi a 5 place penalty for the next race
I think Schumi did a 'double move' once or so, other than that i'd say it was mostly the english cheering for their guy, it's like when i watched david haye vs klitschko
Can't blame them for cheering for their own guys but just take it with a grain of salt :p
While I am a fan of Hamilton and yes I am English that just seems a foolish point to debate. Here is the rule : Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted
I could quite a raft of drivers comments saying how what Sxhumacher did was out of order, but that would turn into a very long post.
But I guess its just me, yeah right. The guy has been cheating his whole career as I pointed out in another post. I can only imagine what this forum would be like if Lewis had done a fraction of what Schumacher has. This was penalised for blocking.
On another note, Vettel made an offical complaint to the stewards about Alonso forcing him off even though he decided to take to the grass unlike Hamilton who was forced off. Did Lewis use his platinum card to complain? No.
I would like to go to this race, looks good from the plans. Nice to see our colonial friends have a race again after the farce and average track of Indy.
On September 23 2011 21:16 BookTwo wrote: If Vettel wins and alonso isn't on the podium, he takes the world title yes?
If Vettel -finishes anywhere on the podium in any of the last 6 races, OR -gains a combined 13 points out of the last 6 races
he becomes world champion. WC is practically over.
Edit: 13, not 11
Your answer seems only to be correct if there were 5 races to go.
If Alonso won the last 6 races and Vettel gained just 13 points Vettel would end at 297 (284+13) and Alonso would end at 322 (172 + 6*25).
However if Vettel wins Singapore and Alonso isn't on the podium the best case for Alonso would be to take 4th at Singapore and win the last 5 races in which case he would get 309 (172+12+25*5) and Vettel would get just his Singapore points and end at 309 (284+25), but Vettel would win on race wins (9 vs 6).
It would however be possible for Button or Webber to win despite Vettel winning in Singapore if one of them got 2nd in Singapore + 5 last race wins and Vettel just got 1st in Singapore because then Button/Webber would end at 310 (167+18+25*5) while Vettel would end at 309 (284+25).
look, the likelihood of vettel not having another win this year, let alone another podium, LET ALONE finishing in the points, like zere said, the wc is almost over.
As for today, Red Bull looking very fast again as always. Webber had a very silly accident with Glock which ended Glock's session early (possible penalty?). Curious story has been featured on BBC though, to do with the Monza spec diffuser of Webbers car. Apparently a fan took a video of the car as it was being lifted off the track which showed the diffuser in detail. Questions have been asked about the legality of it but people seem to agree it was legal. I dont understand copyright but it has been taken down, I thought as it was made by a fan it was fine, especially when there are plenty of FOM stuff on youtube.
This is what Ted wrote: Red Bull's mechanics have spent the season trying to hide the intricacies of the car's design from prying eyes, but one critical part of the car is secret no longer. Marshals recovering Mark Webber's crashed car at the Italian Grand Prix lifted it up into the air and left it hanging there while they waited for a recovery truck to take it back to the pits. The floor and new diffuser were filmed by a fan, and his video has become required viewing for aerodynamicists from the other teams. It shows several things: Red Bull's clever treatment of the floor around the rear wheels - a crucial area in controlling air from the exhausts and air coming off and around the rear tyres. There's the location and design of the hole for the starter motor, which all teams integrate into their diffuser as well as the design of the guide vanes in the diffuser itself. But it also shows a small aerofoil on the upper edge of the car's diffuser. A new part in Italy is an extension around the sides, which is instrumental in the RB7 achieving its impressive high speed downforce. I am told chief technical officer Adrian Newey is so cross about the video that he is refusing to watch it!
have to say I really don't much like the Singapore GP but who knows it could be an interesting race.... curious to see the amount of development Ferrari are still putting on this years car when they have no chance of winning anything...
On September 24 2011 03:21 baldgye wrote: have to say I really don't much like the Singapore GP but who knows it could be an interesting race.... curious to see the amount of development Ferrari are still putting on this years car when they have no chance of winning anything...
Ferrari have stopped development and McLaren have their last update for this race weekend.
On September 24 2011 03:21 baldgye wrote: have to say I really don't much like the Singapore GP but who knows it could be an interesting race.... curious to see the amount of development Ferrari are still putting on this years car when they have no chance of winning anything...
Ferrari have stopped development and McLaren have their last update for this race weekend.
but havn't they brought updates to this weekend?? hence all the aero paint they where running in P1 and P2??
On September 23 2011 23:25 Aristodemus wrote: As for today, Red Bull looking very fast again as always. Webber had a very silly accident with Glock which ended Glock's session early (possible penalty?). Curious story has been featured on BBC though, to do with the Monza spec diffuser of Webbers car. Apparently a fan took a video of the car as it was being lifted off the track which showed the diffuser in detail. Questions have been asked about the legality of it but people seem to agree it was legal. I dont understand copyright but it has been taken down, I thought as it was made by a fan it was fine, especially when there are plenty of FOM stuff on youtube.
This is what Ted wrote: Red Bull's mechanics have spent the season trying to hide the intricacies of the car's design from prying eyes, but one critical part of the car is secret no longer. Marshals recovering Mark Webber's crashed car at the Italian Grand Prix lifted it up into the air and left it hanging there while they waited for a recovery truck to take it back to the pits. The floor and new diffuser were filmed by a fan, and his video has become required viewing for aerodynamicists from the other teams. It shows several things: Red Bull's clever treatment of the floor around the rear wheels - a crucial area in controlling air from the exhausts and air coming off and around the rear tyres. There's the location and design of the hole for the starter motor, which all teams integrate into their diffuser as well as the design of the guide vanes in the diffuser itself. But it also shows a small aerofoil on the upper edge of the car's diffuser. A new part in Italy is an extension around the sides, which is instrumental in the RB7 achieving its impressive high speed downforce. I am told chief technical officer Adrian Newey is so cross about the video that he is refusing to watch it!
Red bull looking strong again this weekened. Have to say, it does indeed look like Vettel will take the WC this weekend. Still cannot wait though, as Singapore is such a great track to watch F1. However from a drivers perspective, it must be a nightmare. All the corners look exactly the same, and there is loads of them! lol
On September 14 2011 22:41 Aristodemus wrote: While I am a fan of Hamilton and yes I am English that just seems a foolish point to debate. Here is the rule : Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted
I could quite a raft of drivers comments saying how what Sxhumacher did was out of order, but that would turn into a very long post.
But I guess its just me, yeah right. The guy has been cheating his whole career as I pointed out in another post. I can only imagine what this forum would be like if Lewis had done a fraction of what Schumacher has. This was penalised for blocking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKWehjscd4
On another note, Vettel made an offical complaint to the stewards about Alonso forcing him off even though he decided to take to the grass unlike Hamilton who was forced off. Did Lewis use his platinum card to complain? No.
LOL
You have been following formula 1 very selectively it seems. Whatever Schumacher did during his career was not even close to the stunts Senna and the likes pulled during their careers. Senna literally forced his opponents to make a choice. Either stay behind him or crash into him. Yet his maneuvers are not nearly as controversially discussed as Schumacher's.
On September 14 2011 22:41 Aristodemus wrote: While I am a fan of Hamilton and yes I am English that just seems a foolish point to debate. Here is the rule : Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted
I could quite a raft of drivers comments saying how what Sxhumacher did was out of order, but that would turn into a very long post.
But I guess its just me, yeah right. The guy has been cheating his whole career as I pointed out in another post. I can only imagine what this forum would be like if Lewis had done a fraction of what Schumacher has. This was penalised for blocking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKWehjscd4
On another note, Vettel made an offical complaint to the stewards about Alonso forcing him off even though he decided to take to the grass unlike Hamilton who was forced off. Did Lewis use his platinum card to complain? No.
LOL
You have been following formula 1 very selectively it seems. Whatever Schumacher did during his career was not even close to the stunts Senna and the likes pulled during their careers. Senna literally forced his opponents to make a choice. Either stay behind him or crash into him. Yet his maneuvers are not nearly as controversially discussed as Schumacher's.
I never claimed Senna was an angel, I didnt even mention him. Maybe I should post a full and complete history of F1 in every post for it to be a valid point. I would disagree with you saying Senna was worse than Schumacher though, perhaps you could let me know who "the likes" refers to also. You completely missed the point of my post however, and everything I said was true.
It's like Lewis doesn't even care anymore, was lazy to clip Massa like that. He seems to have a "what's the point" attitude that mirrors my own when it comes to this F1 season. Looking back, it really has been a write off.
urgh it's happening right now in singapore, yesterday was the practice round i think and god the engines sounded so sexy. couldn't see anything cus they fenced up the area :/ friends are all tweeting about it ;__;
On September 25 2011 21:31 MCDayC wrote: Lewis you plonker.
my thoughts to being with. then dc mentioned that he can't actually see his wing.
hrm.
Even so, it was a case of carelessness on the part of Lewis.
I have no love for Massa (The guy is a wet dishcloth that should retire now before he gets himself killed through fear) but Lewis will owe him an apology for that one.
lewis has said this time and again, he is an aggressive driver. its his style, and when you are constantly taking more risks than others you are bound to put yourself in the situation he gets into.
he didn't do that two weeks ago and was stuck behind schumi for over 20 laps. it suits lewis that he attacks every single corner, every single overtake, every single time.
Decent race today, Vettel seemed to be driving around like Jean Girard with his cup of tea Button and DiResta did well, Hamilton did well in damage limitation mode (justified penalty) after another unlucky weekend. Strange incident with Schumacher driving into the back of Perez not even in a braking zone, he was lucky to not be hurt. I dont often agree with Coulthard on driver of the day but I think DiResta earned it today.
On September 25 2011 22:00 BookTwo wrote: lewis has said this time and again, he is an aggressive driver. its his style, and when you are constantly taking more risks than others you are bound to put yourself in the situation he gets into.
he didn't do that two weeks ago and was stuck behind schumi for over 20 laps. it suits lewis that he attacks every single corner, every single overtake, every single time.
and I don't even like him that much.
SCHUMACHER WOWWWW CRASH
What are you saying? Hamilton is allowed to crash more because "it's his style"?
and amazing drive by seb and di resta. nice to see ricciardo beating liuzzi as well, nice to see the young aussie beating his teammate, even with the extra pit stop.
I understand Massa getting worked up its very hot, he's a racing driver and the incident cost him quite badly. But come of it that was a racing incident and in no way deliberate from Hamiltion. I don't think Hamilton should have got a penalty but that’s up to the stewards. But Massa (who I respect quite a lot) comes of looking like a bit of a whining bitch having a go at Hamilton like that.
Having said that I would say that Hamilton was ridiculous in qualifying yesterday, it was just unnecessary. If I'm honest I don't understand why McLaren sent Hamilton out to join the back of that queue at the beginning of qualifying. After having the puncture it would have made more sense to just send him out once in the middle of the session on a empty track (because most people will be trying to rush 2 runs in the time) and recover a set of tyres after having lost one with the puncture in session 2.
Sensible drive from Vettel as always, untouchable.
edit: should mention what a great host to formula one Singapore makes. Street circuits tend to make boring races. But it makes up for that with been so unique and looking so sensational and saying that the DRS and kerrs make street circuits especially this one no longer a precision like they used to be.
Valencia needs to go from the calendar it’s unbelievably boring and it doesn’t even look good.
zzzzz we've been spoilt with great F1 for a few seasons. This race was pretty meh; just nothing to fight for. Massa and Hamilton just have no respect for each other it's kinda lame. The personality of Lewis is really costing him.
Don't agree with the penalty again. Just let them race.
Interesting, usually I am the one saying his penalties were unjust but I think (based on this years stewarding) today he deserved it. However, a very similar incident happened between Rosberg and Perez that wasnt penalised. The only difference being that it was tyre on tyre instead of wing on tyre and no lasting damage came from it. Massa is Massa, he always has been temperemental and child like, his outburst doesnt surprise me one bit.
Greg, Hamilton was scheduled to do two runs in Q3 yesterday but McLaren had a fuelling issue which prevented him from getting out in time for his second run.
On September 14 2011 22:41 Aristodemus wrote: While I am a fan of Hamilton and yes I am English that just seems a foolish point to debate. Here is the rule : Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted
I could quite a raft of drivers comments saying how what Sxhumacher did was out of order, but that would turn into a very long post.
But I guess its just me, yeah right. The guy has been cheating his whole career as I pointed out in another post. I can only imagine what this forum would be like if Lewis had done a fraction of what Schumacher has. This was penalised for blocking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKWehjscd4
On another note, Vettel made an offical complaint to the stewards about Alonso forcing him off even though he decided to take to the grass unlike Hamilton who was forced off. Did Lewis use his platinum card to complain? No.
LOL
You have been following formula 1 very selectively it seems. Whatever Schumacher did during his career was not even close to the stunts Senna and the likes pulled during their careers. Senna literally forced his opponents to make a choice. Either stay behind him or crash into him. Yet his maneuvers are not nearly as controversially discussed as Schumacher's.
I never claimed Senna was an angel, I didnt even mention him. Maybe I should post a full and complete history of F1 in every post for it to be a valid point. I would disagree with you saying Senna was worse than Schumacher though, perhaps you could let me know who "the likes" refers to also. You completely missed the point of my post however, and everything I said was true.
You claimed that Schumacher gets some kind of special treatment, which is wrong. You also claimed there would have been different reactions if Hamilton had done the same. Ultimately no one can know for sure but imho that was also wrong. Further you claimed that Schumacher had been cheating his whole career. That is clearly wrong too.
So no, not everything of what you said was true. In fact I would argue that nothing of what you said was true, except the drivers' names maybe.
Hamilton is the most reckless driver in F1 by far. It's good that someone calls him out on it every now and then. He and Button are complete opposites of eachother. Button is just so clean and crisp.
On September 14 2011 22:41 Aristodemus wrote: While I am a fan of Hamilton and yes I am English that just seems a foolish point to debate. Here is the rule : Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted
I could quite a raft of drivers comments saying how what Sxhumacher did was out of order, but that would turn into a very long post.
But I guess its just me, yeah right. The guy has been cheating his whole career as I pointed out in another post. I can only imagine what this forum would be like if Lewis had done a fraction of what Schumacher has. This was penalised for blocking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKWehjscd4
On another note, Vettel made an offical complaint to the stewards about Alonso forcing him off even though he decided to take to the grass unlike Hamilton who was forced off. Did Lewis use his platinum card to complain? No.
LOL
You have been following formula 1 very selectively it seems. Whatever Schumacher did during his career was not even close to the stunts Senna and the likes pulled during their careers. Senna literally forced his opponents to make a choice. Either stay behind him or crash into him. Yet his maneuvers are not nearly as controversially discussed as Schumacher's.
I never claimed Senna was an angel, I didnt even mention him. Maybe I should post a full and complete history of F1 in every post for it to be a valid point. I would disagree with you saying Senna was worse than Schumacher though, perhaps you could let me know who "the likes" refers to also. You completely missed the point of my post however, and everything I said was true.
You claimed that Schumacher gets some kind of special treatment, which is wrong. You also claimed there would have been different reactions if Hamilton had done the same. Ultimately no one can know for sure but imho that was also wrong. Further you claimed that Schumacher had been cheating his whole career. That is clearly wrong too.
So no, not everything of what you said was true. In fact I would argue that nothing of what you said was true, except the drivers' names maybe.
Point out where I said Schumacher gets preferential treatment. If you dont think Hamilton gets more stick in this forum than anyone else you are blind or it isnt your honest opinion, some people in here were blaming him for the Maldonado incident. You cant look back on his career and say he hasnt been guilty of cheating numerous times either. I guess YOU will though. Now that is selective viewing.
On September 14 2011 22:41 Aristodemus wrote: While I am a fan of Hamilton and yes I am English that just seems a foolish point to debate. Here is the rule : Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as more than one change of direction to defend a position, deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted
I could quite a raft of drivers comments saying how what Sxhumacher did was out of order, but that would turn into a very long post.
But I guess its just me, yeah right. The guy has been cheating his whole career as I pointed out in another post. I can only imagine what this forum would be like if Lewis had done a fraction of what Schumacher has. This was penalised for blocking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hKWehjscd4
On another note, Vettel made an offical complaint to the stewards about Alonso forcing him off even though he decided to take to the grass unlike Hamilton who was forced off. Did Lewis use his platinum card to complain? No.
LOL
You have been following formula 1 very selectively it seems. Whatever Schumacher did during his career was not even close to the stunts Senna and the likes pulled during their careers. Senna literally forced his opponents to make a choice. Either stay behind him or crash into him. Yet his maneuvers are not nearly as controversially discussed as Schumacher's.
I never claimed Senna was an angel, I didnt even mention him. Maybe I should post a full and complete history of F1 in every post for it to be a valid point. I would disagree with you saying Senna was worse than Schumacher though, perhaps you could let me know who "the likes" refers to also. You completely missed the point of my post however, and everything I said was true.
You claimed that Schumacher gets some kind of special treatment, which is wrong. You also claimed there would have been different reactions if Hamilton had done the same. Ultimately no one can know for sure but imho that was also wrong. Further you claimed that Schumacher had been cheating his whole career. That is clearly wrong too.
So no, not everything of what you said was true. In fact I would argue that nothing of what you said was true, except the drivers' names maybe.
Point out where I said Schumacher gets preferential treatment. If you dont think Hamilton gets more stick in this forum than anyone else you are blind or it isnt your honest opinion, some people in here were blaming him for the Maldonado incident. You cant look back on his career and say he hasnt been guilty of cheating numerous times either. I guess YOU will though. Now that is selective viewing.
The majority of the people who commonly post in this thread are British, all of who worship Hamilton's every move.
Singapore sure is a great place, man they're doing everything right with that country. Hat off to them.
Race was good but not as good as some of the previous tracks, sadly. I was impressed with PDR and JB/Vet. They did everything right, great drivers.
My mancrush on Button is growing day by day, that guy is just such a class act. I hope his car gets more competitive next season (even though I dislike McLaren lol).
On September 26 2011 00:34 Asshat wrote: Hamilton is the most reckless driver in F1 by far. It's good that someone calls him out on it every now and then. He and Button are complete opposites of eachother. Button is just so clean and crisp.
On any given day, Button is also slower. That's the price you pay for being "clean and crisp" as you put it, you're smooth, but you'll never be the fastest. The fastest drivers will always be the ones that can drive on the edge, Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, even Webber at this point.
And yes, you can argue that Button is beating Hamilton this season, and it's true, since Spa I think Button has driven better, but I don't think you can really read too much into that. Button seems to be genuinely excited at the prospect of coming 2nd in the championship, and still looks properly motivated, whereas Hamilton looks like he doesn't care anymore ever since it was essentially confirmed that noone would catch Vettel.
Of the two opinions, I'm more inclined to agree with Hamilton there, 2nd in the championship is first of the losers, and there really shouldn't be any respect given for finishing 2nd. Remember, Hamilton finished 2nd in his first ever F1 season, but the achievment of note is him winning his second season.
As for the Massa incident, I think Lewis handled that quite maturely, since I would quite happily seen him haul off and smack Massa in the face. When you do something as provocative as grabbing someone like that, you should be willing to face retaliation, cowardly of Massa to do it in front of cameras where he knew he would be safe and could get away with it.
On September 26 2011 00:34 Asshat wrote: Hamilton is the most reckless driver in F1 by far. It's good that someone calls him out on it every now and then. He and Button are complete opposites of eachother. Button is just so clean and crisp.
On any given day, Button is also slower. That's the price you pay for being "clean and crisp" as you put it, you're smooth, but you'll never be the fastest. The fastest drivers will always be the ones that can drive on the edge, Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, even Webber at this point.
Fair enough, but of the aforementioned drivers, Hamilton gets involved in more "controversial incidents" per year than probably all of those three combined.
On September 26 2011 00:34 Asshat wrote: Hamilton is the most reckless driver in F1 by far. It's good that someone calls him out on it every now and then. He and Button are complete opposites of eachother. Button is just so clean and crisp.
On any given day, Button is also slower. That's the price you pay for being "clean and crisp" as you put it, you're smooth, but you'll never be the fastest. The fastest drivers will always be the ones that can drive on the edge, Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, even Webber at this point.
Fair enough, but of the aforementioned drivers, Hamilton gets involved in more "controversial incidents" per year than probably all of those three combined.
He has been in a lot of incidents this year, true. But most of them have been borne out of frustration (Monaco, and today especially) due to situations where he has been pretty unlucky (his puncture in quali, and the fiasco at monaco) which means he's well down the rankings and fighting to overtake people he's much faster than. In that situation, I've seen plenty of top tier drivers, even Vettel, make silly mistakes and have just as many incidents (spa 2010).
I'm not trying to excuse the mistakes, because they ARE mistakes, but I also think this "Hamilton gets involved in incidents all the time" thing reeks of confirmation bias nowadays. Any incident involving Hamilton never gets looked at as a RACING incident, it's always a controversial incident because it was Lewis. Had the Rosberg/Perez incident involved Hamilton today, it would have been reported as a "controversial" incident. As it was, it was just a racing incident and no action was taken and it's not really talked about, despite it being far more serious and dangerous (in my view) than the Lewis/Massa incident.
Edit: It's also worth keeping in mind, just for reference, that when Button was Hamilton's age, he was a PR nightmare, doing massive amounts of coke in club bathrooms, cheating on girlfriends, and let's face it, not exactly driving brilliantly!
I guess there are more people who think there is something wrong with Hamilton's actions on track. And yeah, these people know what they are talking about..
On October 02 2011 23:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: I guess there are more people who think there is something wrong with Hamilton's actions on track. And yeah, these people know what they are talking about..
On October 02 2011 23:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: I guess there are more people who think there is something wrong with Hamilton's actions on track. And yeah, these people know what they are talking about..
On October 02 2011 23:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: I guess there are more people who think there is something wrong with Hamilton's actions on track. And yeah, these people know what they are talking about..
Which two drivers do you think that will be? I think you can figure it out for yourself, do they know what they are talking about though.....
Does it really say there are two drivers requesting this? I thought nearly all other driver are in this. They have asked Charlie Whiting a permission to talk about Hamilton's driving together with Ham.
Well, it won't be ALL the drivers for a start. Button, Alonso, Schumacher, none of those will feel aggrieved, Button because he's a teammate, Alonso and Schumacher because they have been around a while and have done far worse themselves
Webber has done some incredible overtakes this year, with some massively risky maneuvers. I can't see him having a problem with "aggressive" driving.
Vettel has won the championship, he won't care.
Rosberg, Sutil and Kovalainen are all friends of Hamilton and respect him so they wont.
Kobayashi is just as aggressive when he has the chance.
Now we're left with the rookies and the have-nots. Trulli and Barrichello might speak up but I would have thought there were far too old and wise to get involved in something like this.
Trust me, the people championing this cause are going to be the people who complain the loudest, Massa and Maldonado.
On October 05 2011 00:01 NikonTC wrote: Well, it won't be ALL the drivers for a start. Button, Alonso, Schumacher, none of those will feel aggrieved, Button because he's a teammate, Alonso and Schumacher because they have been around a while and have done far worse themselves
Webber has done some incredible overtakes this year, with some massively risky maneuvers. I can't see him having a problem with "aggressive" driving.
Vettel has won the championship, he won't care.
Rosberg, Sutil and Kovalainen are all friends of Hamilton and respect him so they wont.
Kobayashi is just as aggressive when he has the chance.
Now we're left with the rookies and the have-nots. Trulli and Barrichello might speak up but I would have thought there were far too old and wise to get involved in something like this.
Trust me, the people championing this cause are going to be the people who complain the loudest, Massa and Maldonado.
I don't have any actual information, but I guess we'll see that this weekend. :D
Only just watched it now but what a fucked up call by McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes, it cost Hamilton a certain pole imo. It was somewhat a rude pass but you cant blame Webber for that because he needed to do it. All three teams caused that situation. Seems strange what they did for tyres too, using the same ones for q3 as q2 on the first run. Leaving a brand new set untouched, I scratch my head at the logic really but everyone did it so I guess it is justified. That AGAIN hampers Hamilton for tomorrow (in his first stint atleast) as he will start on very worn tyres. Some fucker has a Lewis Hamilton voodoo doll I swear
MSC wins this gp. I don't know how he'll do it, but you heard it here first. A And yes, i, among the other 99.99% of the population, believe that vettel will clinch the WDC here.
On October 09 2011 13:50 fanta[Rn] wrote: Aaaa can't wait for the start!
I hope Kobayashi takes this one somehow!
He won't. It's unfortunate, but everyone knows that barring a 23-car crash not affecting Kobayashi he cannot hope to beat any of the Red Bulls, McLarens, or Ferrais. I'm actually slightly afraid that all this pressure is getting to him and he will crash due to being over-aggressive, or maybe just wear out 6 pairs of tires due to "enthusiastic" driving.
I have high hopes for Button. He has really impressed me this season and he seems very comfortable this weekend. I will not be able to watch it live, but when I get a chance to watch it I hope to see a close race with Button edging it out. I also feel a bit sorry for Lewis and his bad luck in this season (some of which may be his own fault) so I hope he can score well too, but honestly I don't have high hopes. Lewis just didn't seem to have much fighting spirit this weekend from the interviews I heard and while that may be good for preventing accidents I doubt it will score him a podium finish despite the McLarens looking very strong.
Brilliant drive from Button today, he had to pull it out at the end which he did. He looks almost certain to finish ahead of Hamilton in the championship now which is an incredible feat, even with his luck this year. He had none again today, lost out to Button and Alonso with his puncture then had to do an extra lap on ruined tyres which cost him places to Webber and Massa. Main point has to be congratulations to Seb Fantastic season from him this year! Fully deserved title, lets hope for stronger McLarens and Ferraris next year
I overslept and didn't watch the race .. stupid me. But I saw the start in the recap, and I have to say that Vettel's starting move was awfully .... close. Later I saw them prepping for the ceremony, Button said "Didn;t you see me? I was on the grass..." Surely that conversation would have gone differently if Vettel would have won I noticed Hamilton and Massa came together once again, but I won't comment on it since all I saw was an onboard view while I was walking past the TV. But the thing that really surprises me at the moment is that both Lotus managed to stay within the leader's lap ... anyone notice that?
I repeat: Both Lotus were not lapped.
Average race speed: 1. Button 202.972 km/h [...] 17. Barrichello 200.248 km/h 18. Kovalainen 199.756 km/h 19. Trulli 199.456 km/h 20. Glock 193.613 km/h
McLaren looked really good today, but it was in the rain and we are forecast a dry weekend from here. The BBC brought up a point I found quite interesting regarding Red Bull Technologies, a "company" outside of the F1 team situated next to Red Bull to flout the RRA (resource restriction agreement). Now to me, I cant see why McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes adhere to it if Red Bull are acting so underhanded. Especially since those three teams I mentioned could dwarf the RB budget if they chose to. As for that conversation you mentioned Zere, I thought Buttons follow-up comment was better "so thats how we are racing from now eh?" after he brushed off the initial comment. Fireworks inc? Another point, Briatore has come out and said that Vettel would only come third if everyone had equal equipment, I have to agree with him on that.
On October 15 2011 01:59 Aristodemus wrote: McLaren looked really good today, but it was in the rain and we are forecast a dry weekend from here. The BBC brought up a point I found quite interesting regarding Red Bull Technologies, a "company" outside of the F1 team situated next to Red Bull to flout the RRA (resource restriction agreement). Now to me, I cant see why McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes adhere to it if Red Bull are acting so underhanded. Especially since those three teams I mentioned could dwarf the RB budget if they chose to. As for that conversation you mentioned Zere, I thought Buttons follow-up comment was better "so thats how we are racing from now eh?" after he brushed off the initial comment. Fireworks inc? Another point, Briatore has come out and said that Vettel would only come third if everyone had equal equipment, I have to agree with him on that.
I hope the best for the Mokpo region and the track down at Yeongam. But it’s not really looking that great. Its so far away from Seoul or any major city except maybe Gwangju its gonna struggle to pull in the fans. Not to mention very expensive for your average Korean. When they where building the thing they where talking about how it was gonna become the centre of motorsports in Korea and a city was gonna develop around it and within it so eventually it would basically be a city circuit. However I think its just starting to dawn on Korean that their about to hit a huge housing market collapse as they have been building brand new tower blocks and brand new cities at ridiculous speeds for years now and they actually have a completely static maybe even slightly shrinking population most of this new development is just not needed and not gonna be bought or filled.
Mokpo (traditionally the poorest area in Korea) has seen a lot of expansion in the last 15 years or so with the building of the newtown area around Hadang and the shifting of the economic centre to this area from the original downtown creating plenty of housing to choose from within Mokpo. It just makes no sense to build a new city down in Yeongam right next to the track because for 51 weeks of the year it’s a boggy marsh in the middle of no where. It's still about a 25 minute bus ride from Mokpo and most people will decide their much better of living in Mokpo since there’s plenty of new housing there already.
I hope despite this motorsport can grow in this country and become popular and the circuit can be in regular use through out the season. Otherwise we are always gonna be left with a pretty disappointing track that’s only used once a year in a marsh in the middle of no where.
Also congratulations Hamilton on finally getting a pole position.
On October 15 2011 17:29 Greg_J wrote: I hope the best for the Mokpo region and the track down at Yeongam. But it’s not really looking that great. Its so far away from Seoul or any major city except maybe Gwangju its gonna struggle to pull in the fans. Not to mention very expensive for your average Korean. When they where building the thing they where talking about how it was gonna become the centre of motorsports in Korea and a city was gonna develop around it and within it so eventually it would basically be a city circuit. However I think its just starting to dawn on Korean that their about to hit a huge housing market collapse as they have been building brand new tower blocks and brand new cities at ridiculous speeds for years now and they actually have a completely static maybe even slightly shrinking population most of this new development is just not needed and not gonna be bought or filled.
Mokpo (traditionally the poorest area in Korea) has seen a lot of expansion in the last 15 years or so with the building of the newtown area around Hadang and the shifting of the economic centre to this area from the original downtown creating plenty of housing to choose from within Mokpo. It just makes no sense to build a new city down in Yeongam right next to the track because for 51 weeks of the year it’s a boggy marsh in the middle of no where. It's still about a 25 minute bus ride from Mokpo and most people will decide their much better of living in Mokpo since there’s plenty of new housing there already.
I hope despite this motorsport can grow in this country and become popular and the circuit can be in regular use through out the season. Otherwise we are always gonna be left with a pretty disappointing track that’s only used once a year in a marsh in the middle of no where.
Also congratulations Hamilton on finally getting a pole position.
the track really needs to be used more often. hearing it only being used only for the korean gp is depressing.
i mean melbourne's gp track is the same... but it's a mix of a street/race track.
I like the track, it has two long straights but it is fast sweeping bends in the main. Great battle today between Hamilton and Webber, he did well to get second considering how fast the Red Bull was today. Clearly Alonso didnt give up and just think he was showing frustration, you could say the Ferrari was the second fastest car based off his pace when he got past Massa but it was nice to see Ferrari not order his aside as is usual.
Nikon, Alonso gave up in frustration on catching Jenson. Vettel's last lap was 1:39.605 - wait, what is this I don't even? Lotus P14, caught both Sauber. (!) di Resta in the points. Sutil not, once again. It's 27-21 points for Sutil now, hope di Resta catches him in the remaining races. Stupid German media was always all over Sutil's performance vs. others, when, in fact, his teammates were always driving 2nd grade Force Indias. I frikking hate the German F1 coverage, in 2009 they went that far that they were hoping and cheering for Jenson to crash (!!!) in the last remaining laps in Brazil so Vettel would have become champion. They deserve to be punched in the face really hard. Sorry, Adrian, but I'm with Paul here.
On October 16 2011 16:50 Lachrymose wrote: Yeah, great job by Hamilton to go faster in straight lines than Webber. Excellent driving.
Are you implying somehow Mark Webber did a better job than Hamiltion by going around the same course as him in a much faster car and failing to over take him?
I like Mark Webber by the way I just thought you’re post was a bit bitter.
I was very entertained by the spectacle of the Korean prime minster and other dignitaries presenting the drivers with the trophies and then standing there looking confused wondering what happens next. A question promptly answered by Mark Webber spraying them all with champaign.
Such a dark day today English racer Dan Wheldon has been killed in an accident in the Las Vegas round of Indycar. Im so fucking sad right now, RIP Dan.
On October 17 2011 08:22 Aristodemus wrote: Such a dark day today English racer Dan Wheldon has been killed in an accident in the Las Vegas round of Indycar. Im so fucking sad right now, RIP Dan.
I don’t follow Indy car in any way shape or form but it’s of course always very sad when someone dies whatever the circumstances. It's kind of excepted as part of the sport that this kind of thing happens and everyone knows what they do is dangerous. At least in the last few years motor racing around the world has had a steadily increasing safety record so this kind of thing happens a lot less often. Formula one has an excellent record with no one dieing since that fatal weekend that took Sena and the other guy I can't remember the name of.
A few points to be made/discussed before the inaugural Indian GP.
First, Petrov recieved a 5 place grid drop for his incident with Schumacher which I found harsh considering Schumacher did the exact same thing to Perez and recieved no such penalty. He even said himself it was just a racing incident, and I guess more understandable considering he was side by side with Alonso at the time. America will be getting a second race from 2013 in New Jersey, which I like. However, it seems it will be a dull track akin to the old Detroit circuit and very much unlike the Austin track which looks amazing. Very strong rumours are circling regarding Adrian Sutil who has apparently been sacked from Force India. The team look set to name Hulkenberg and DiResta for next year. I find this harsh considering Sutil has out-performed DiResta this year, but I am very glad the the Hulk gets another chance in a fairly decent car, the guy has huge potential in my eyes. Then there is Kimi...... he wants back in and apparently Williams want him too. I think this will be good for attracting sponsors but not much else. The guy didnt even go to the Australian rally because he didnt fancy a long flight. He doesnt give a shit anymore, pretty much since he won his title. Lastly, Mercedes ran a very complicated front wing in practice at Korea that has all the teams worried. Only Whitmarsh has commented though, stating it may even be too late to copy for next year at this stage. If you are interested in it, check out this blog. http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/category/mercedes-w02/ http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/update-mercedes-f-duct-front-wing/
At first I thought fair enough just like Lewis for the penalty, however I think Perez and Hamilton can both feel hard done by. Both the steering wheel and trackside LED's showed green sector for what they were penalised but there is a directive that the drivers must obey stewards at all times. This first time steward obviously liked waving his flag and didnt want to stop resulting in the two drivers being penalised. Maybe Jenson was a little fortunate too, but he is very clever I feel instantly complaining to his team (more importantly the FIA) about the HRT being too slow. Judge for yourselves, either way it was only three place drops which shouldnt hinder the two guys too badly. http://vimeo.com/31262768
Hamilton clearly had the corner what the hell is wrong with Massa he thinks he can just drive other cars of the road. To be fair if Hamilton had been more competitive in the first part of the race he would have over taken Massa in the pits and that incident would have never happened.
On October 30 2011 19:20 Greg_J wrote: Hamilton clearly had the corner what the hell is wrong with Massa he thinks he can just drive other cars of the road. To be fair if Hamilton had been more competitive in the first part of the race he would have over taken Massa in the pits and that incident would have never happened.
Have to disagree with this, Hamilton was not far enough up and Massa is entitled to take the racing line into the corner. If anyone should have been penalised I think it should have been Hamilton, but the fact they gave Massa the drive through seems ridiculous to me. It could have been called a racing incident and that would have been fine.
The Massa vs Hamilton colision the Stewards have alot more information take the japan issue they did not give hamilton or massa anything down to hamilton was taking the same line every lap, and massa should have not been on the left hand side. maybe the stewards saw something in the GPS data and steerring wheel traces that massa had turn in too sharp more than the last lap or so.
The big issue now is should the Ferrari's front wing be legal now that its flexing madly at the second DRS zone
On October 30 2011 19:20 Greg_J wrote: Hamilton clearly had the corner what the hell is wrong with Massa he thinks he can just drive other cars of the road. To be fair if Hamilton had been more competitive in the first part of the race he would have over taken Massa in the pits and that incident would have never happened.
Have to disagree with this, Hamilton was not far enough up and Massa is entitled to take the racing line into the corner. If anyone should have been penalised I think it should have been Hamilton, but the fact they gave Massa the drive through seems ridiculous to me. It could have been called a racing incident and that would have been fine.
I agree the penalty is harsh on Massa and it should have just been racing incident because Massa could have genuinely not seen him. But that really is the only defence Massa can possibly give as Hamilton clearly had track position and Massa just turned in on him. Racing would be so easy if everyone just got out your way every time. Unfortunately it doesn’t work like that you need to be aware of where cars are on the road.
I’m fully aware that the same applies when Kobayashi and Hamilton collided when ever that was. Hamilton should have checked his mirror and not turned in on Kobayashi.
Massa was definitely at fault this time around, but he has plenty of catching up to do if he wants to match Hamilton's boneheaded moves in this season.
In that situation you have two choices, either yield or leave room to go through the corner side by side. Massa did neither. What a fool jumping the orange sleeping policemen for the second day running, that shows his intelligence level. Nice track though, shame it was another sunday drive for Seb. Asshat proving how apt his name is again.
On October 30 2011 19:20 Greg_J wrote: Hamilton clearly had the corner what the hell is wrong with Massa he thinks he can just drive other cars of the road. To be fair if Hamilton had been more competitive in the first part of the race he would have over taken Massa in the pits and that incident would have never happened.
Have to disagree with this, Hamilton was not far enough up and Massa is entitled to take the racing line into the corner. If anyone should have been penalised I think it should have been Hamilton, but the fact they gave Massa the drive through seems ridiculous to me. It could have been called a racing incident and that would have been fine.
I agree the penalty is harsh on Massa and it should have just been racing incident because Massa could have genuinely not seen him. But that really is the only defence Massa can possibly give as Hamilton clearly had track position and Massa just turned in on him. Racing would be so easy if everyone just got out your way every time. Unfortunately it doesn’t work like that you need to be aware of where cars are on the road.
The trouble is almost EVERY incident this season should have been a "racing incident". They need to stop these bullshit calls time and time again. You don't gain anything by destroying your car so let it be. I know I've said this before but it's true. In times past drivers used to drive each other off the track. Go watch Mansell, Prost, Senna etc... they never yielded and that's what makes great racing.
Basically, Ferrari's president is threatening to leave the sport if rule changes are not made in the near future.
He wants the following changes:
1) Less focus on aerodynamics for car performance (he claims 90% of performance is attributed to aerodynamics).
2) Removal of testing ban that has recently been placed. He supports the effort of reduced costs, but says the ban has gone too far because new talent has no opportunity to be successful.
3) Adding another car to the top teams. He says that 3 cars per team would be beneficial to the overall competition and excitement of the sport since the lower teams just get lapped reguarly anyhow.
Honestly, I think this is a little ridiculous. Ferrari is basically crying because they aren't competing in championships and now they threaten to leave because they can't face failure. I hope F1 doesn't give in and make changes. Ultimately, I think F1 could survive without Ferrari, but Ferrari could not survive without F1. I'm not even debating whether the changes would be good or bad, but to threaten to leave the sport because you can't have your way is ridiculous.
1) The FIA have been trying this for years, the teams are just too good and too sly on interpretations of rules and FIA tests. I think the wake is better now than around 10 years, and pretty close to being fine. It is just high speed tracks like Barcelona (which should be dropped soon) and Suzuka where they struggle badly.
2) The one team who have two private test tracks, one of which directly outside their factory want unlimited testing again? Shocking. Has nothing to do with new talent.
3) Herp derp 3 cars have more advertisement than two, this wont happen unless so many teams drop out and we have less than 14ish cars on the track. I dont want it to either.
Ferrari always complain like a little baby until they get what they want. They already recieve 5% of F1 turnover as a bonus and until the latest concorde had a veto option for ANY rule change. I agree the FIA need to appreciate they have Ferrari by the balls, they can only go elsewhere if the other teams also want to. As I said a while back though, McLaren and Ferrari should just ignore the budget cap because Red Bull are cheating the system in my eyes with "Red Bull technology". That will see them where they should be again.
I agree with Aristo; this is just another Ferrari-whine. Initially I thought I could agree with the testing statement, but then again: There were 4 testing weekends for the teams prior to 2011's season, but I didn't see any young Ferrari driver taking part in these. There were Paffett for McLaren, and Teixeira, Razia, Valsecchi for Lotus (all of them very promising young guns who proved themselves in F2,RWS,GP2,DTM). Williams supports the F2 championship, Red Bull is heavily involved in sponsoring lots of lower Formula drivers, Renault even has a whole worldwide racing series of their own. And then again, what are the Young Driver Days for? I can see lots of teams giving young talents chances, just not Ferrari. Apart from that, there's going to be one additional testing week in 2012 anyway, between April 22nd (Bahrain) and May 13th (Barcelona).
Ferrari are ratteling thier sabers again...., Their biggest issue will be developing a v6 engine for 2013 which they were complianing about last year. They need to get off thier Soap box and get thier heads to the drawing board like Mclearen are doing. At least next year there will be no fake lotus vs fake lotus, just a fake lotus, Murarussia and Cathrum
"Hamilton did not have a super season this year, who knows whether it was due to the Pirelli tyres or the fact that with blown diffusers now driving has changed," he explained.
"On top of that, [Hamilton's team-mate Jenson] Button is having a great year. All of this concurred to give the impression that his season hasn't been so good.
"But let's consider India, when he took second place in qualifying. It's like soccer: if Real Madrid or Barcelona are not performing particularly well on a given season, that does not mean that they're not top league.
"In fact, at the next winter testing he [Hamilton] will be the only one I'll be watching closely. The other guys can win if they've got the best car; he's the one who's able to clinch a championship with a car that's not the best."
Grosjean for Renault, and Vergne for Toro Rosso today. Toro Rosso, who are still fighting around P6/P7/P8 in the constructors championship, where every gained position equals MILLIONS of income. Where is Bianchi? Where is Rigon? With 120 points behind McLaren and 180 points ahead of Mercedes, still not able to "give young talent an opportunity", Ferrari, you are pathetic.
I have to agree with the comments from Fernando, it is clear that while those two guys are not the best of friends they have huge respect for each other. I would add Fernando to that comment about being able to win a championship without the best car also though.
Get Maldonado out of F1 right now. He gets a penalty for ignoring blue flags, then the FIRST THING he does when he gets back out is to hold up massa/webber, and he had the gall to try and intimidate webber on the way past...
On November 13 2011 23:04 NikonTC wrote: Get Maldonado out of F1 right now. He gets a penalty for ignoring blue flags, then the FIRST THING he does when he gets back out is to hold up massa/webber, and he had the gall to try and intimidate webber on the way past...
Great drive from Fernando and Lewis today, you could see both were delighted in the press conference. Button also drove decently, to keep Webber behind him who was clearly the fastest car today. He didnt even make the podium, although you have to say the track is very tough to make passes stick on. I thought it was quite an entertaining race, but it was a massive shame that Seb had to retire because watching him charge through the field would have added alot of drama I think. Where would he have finished? I honestly believe he would have made the podium based on how fast Webber was and how much better Seb is. The biggest disappointment was the lack of respect for blue flags, as the two guys pointed out Maldonado was a disgrace. Also Petrov and Barrichello were taking the piss, Petrov made Alonso follow him for the entire s3 which cost him a full second and Barrichello was passed then used the DRS to send one up the inside of Lewis. Today makes you realise how much better they normally are at this, even on tracks like Monaco. One more race left, will Seb break big Nige's race win record in Brazil? I believe he will but I dont want him to.
For people interested in the young drivers test that has been running this week, some have impressed while others have choked. I think the most obvious point that has been made is the Red Bull is insanely fast compared to the others, either that or Jean Eric Vergne is that next huge F1 name because he has completely blown the field away all week. Other drivers who should get a mention for doing a good job are Sam Bird, Robbie Wickens (blitzed his day at Renault), Jules Bianchi and Max Chilton. Here are the times:-
Jean Eric Vergne 1:38.9 Red Bull Jules Bianchi 1:40.2 Ferrari Sam Bird 1:40.8 Mercedes Oliver Turvey 1:41.5 McLaren Max Chilton 1:41.5 Force India Gary Paffett 1:41.7 McLaren Esteban Gutierrez 1:42.0 Sauber Robert Wickens 1:42.2 Renault Fabio Leimer 1:42.3 Sauber Valtteri Bottas 1:42.3 Williams Johnny Cecotto Jr 1:42.8 Force India Mirko Bortolotti 1:43.2 Williams Kevin Ceccon 1:43.6 Toro Rosso Kevin Korjus 1:43.7 Renault Luiz Raiz 1:43.9 Lotus Rodolfo Gonzalaz 1:44.0 Lotus Alexander Rossi 1:44.2 Lotus Jan Charouz 1:44.4 Renault Stefano Coletti 1:44.5 Toro Rosso Dani Clos 1:45.3 HRT Nathanael Berthon 1:45.8 HRT Robert Wickens 1:45.9 Virgin Charles Pic 1:46.3 Virgin Jan Charouz 1:46.6 HRT Adrian Quaffe-Hobbs 1:47.2 Virgin
I am Sceptical about Jean Eric Vergnes times this week. His last test in the Torro Rosso which was FP1 S.Korea he was well off bumei's time about 3 seconds. I feel his time was all down to the RB being the best in class, I am a Macca fan and i feel the most stand out of all this young driver test was Jules Bianchi who is in the 3rd best car of the season
On November 07 2011 23:44 Aristodemus wrote: 3) Herp derp 3 cars have more advertisement than two, this wont happen unless so many teams drop out and we have less than 14ish cars on the track. I dont want it to either.
The other two ideas were trash.. but I actually like that one. If Vettel had another team mate this year wouldn't have been such a boring right-off. 3 drivers in the same car would definitely bring some more excitement.
On November 18 2011 01:16 zere wrote: Petrov (Renault) 1:40.919 Q2 Robert Wickens 1:42.2 Renault Glock (Marussia-Virgin) 1:44.515 Q3 Robert Wickens 1:45.9 Virgin
God, the Virgin's awful.
You cant really compare them to qualifying pace because the teams run for 3 laps only and turn up the engines on brand new tyres. The Virgin is indeed terrible though, looking at the times this week it appears worse than the HRT which shows how good a job Glock and D'Ambrosio have done this year.
Yeah, thats what I meant. Having the same driver on the same track in the same week with nearly same conditions is about the closest real comparison we can get between two cars. Of course the Q-times are special, but it's about the relativity within the same session. I.e. it doesn't look much better in + Show Spoiler [P1] +
Robert Wickens 1:42.2 Renault Grosjean (Renault) 1:42.685 P1 Robert Wickens 1:45.9 Virgin Glock (Marussia-Virgin) 1:48.024 P1 Wickens (Marussia-Virgin) 1:48.551 P1
Basically, Ferrari's president is threatening to leave the sport if rule changes are not made in the near future.
He wants the following changes:
1) Less focus on aerodynamics for car performance (he claims 90% of performance is attributed to aerodynamics).
2) Removal of testing ban that has recently been placed. He supports the effort of reduced costs, but says the ban has gone too far because new talent has no opportunity to be successful.
3) Adding another car to the top teams. He says that 3 cars per team would be beneficial to the overall competition and excitement of the sport since the lower teams just get lapped reguarly anyhow.
Honestly, I think this is a little ridiculous. Ferrari is basically crying because they aren't competing in championships and now they threaten to leave because they can't face failure. I hope F1 doesn't give in and make changes. Ultimately, I think F1 could survive without Ferrari, but Ferrari could not survive without F1. I'm not even debating whether the changes would be good or bad, but to threaten to leave the sport because you can't have your way is ridiculous.
It's old news now but I just wanted to weigh-in...
1) is silly, there have been things to focus on in past years besides aerodynamics (double diffusers, f-duct, then blown diffusers, kers, drs.) Ferrari are just annoyed they haven't been the beneficiaries of these revelations. I mean look at Red Bull, they've attacked everything from an alternative point of view when compared to Ferrari/McLaren and it's worked wonders for them... Saying 90% of performance is attributed to aerodynamics is probably true, but what do they expect with a frozen engine anyway?
2) I agree with this one, the testing ban has always been stupid, we need ways for new drivers to get seat-time, and for new technological advancements to be developed outside of the wind-tunnel... But this once again basically comes down to spending, how are the new teams expected to compete at all without the budgets to take advantage of in-season testing?
3) This is absolutely stupid really... If Ferrari wants more cars they should look at having a feeder team like Torro Rosso... I'm actually really surprised more teams haven't taken this approach. I would be more than happy to see the likes of HRT/Virgin replaced with Ferrari/McLaren funded teams that could actually compete at the current midfield level...
Ferrari have a legacy with F1 that no one wants to see disappear, that's the crux of it really. If Ferrari leave, a part of F1 will be missing... No one wants to see them leave which is the problem. It's all just politics really (which is 90% of F1 off the track) they use them leaving as a bargaining chip, whether they actually do it or not time will tell (because 3 cars the other teams have already said flat-out "no" to.) My bet is that they will never leave, unless the sport practically implodes.
Robert Kubica has informed Renault that he can't commit to driving for the team from the start of the 2012 as he hasn’t yet recovered sufficiently from the injuries he sustained in his February rally accident. Kubica severely injured his right hand during the crash and has missed the whole of the 2011 season.
Although not ready to return to competition just yet, Kubica continues to make excellent progress. He can now walk freely and move his elbow and hand, and has started an intensive training programme, but needs more time to complete his rehabilitation and return to full fitness.
And with that, I doubt he will ever be back. The severeness of his crash must have been more bad than anyone would have expected, even after half a year
Well the BBC have just screwed us for thier live 10 races, and will show non full High lights for the races they won't be covering live. yet they will still send thier team to all races. 15 April: China 13 May: Spain 27 May: Monaco 24 June: Europe 8 July: Britain 2 September: Belgium 23 September: Singapore 14 October: Korea 4 November: Abu Dhabi 25 November: Brazil While sky sets up a new Teleshopping channel which will cost £10.50 a month extra or Free if you have the HD package or Skysports 1 and 2 to show 20 races.
3) This is absolutely stupid really... If Ferrari wants more cars they should look at having a feeder team like Torro Rosso... I'm actually really surprised more teams haven't taken this approach. I would be more than happy to see the likes of HRT/Virgin replaced with Ferrari/McLaren funded teams that could actually compete at the current midfield level...
It's much more expensive to have a feeder team than to have a 3rd car. Teams must be constructors, that is they cannot share a chassis. This happened with red bull/torro rosso and is one of the reasons that Torro Rosso is being sold off partially.
That was a good race in Brasil, but anyone feel that Vettel's "gearbox problem" was manufactured to give Webber the win? I'm a fan of his so I'm happy for the win either way...just seems to convenient.
Very good season, both in spite of and because of the Vettel dominance.
Very close between 2nd 3rd 4th 5th racers, which is very good. Exciting races 80% of the time aswell (Brazillian was very very full this year)
One thing i hope they bring next year is REVIEW THE GOD DAMN DRS ZONES, some of them (like brazil) were fkn awfuil and pointless man, and the race before, that was even worst and german was even worst argh so many fail ones.
Still looking forward to the next season, come on MClaren!!
Kolles finally leaves HRT. Also, Vergne and Ricciardo are confirmed for Toro Rosso (!) While we can take it as granted that Hülkenberg and di Resta will race for Force India next year, this leaves only 2 cockpits open (1xHRT,1xWilliams) for a load of drivers: Alguersuari, Buemi, Heidfeld, Chandhok, D'Ambrosio, Karthikeyan, Liuzzi, Petrov, Senna and Sutil,
Two drivers on that list I really want to get into teams, Sutil and Petrov, though I'd like to see Senna race again next season but I doubt that Williams would take him on, will be interesting to see what drivers won't get seats in F1 next season.
It's good to have Kimi back in F1. We need finns in formula 1. However, I really hope Alguersuari and Senna find a seat for next year. I really was impressed with the performance Alguersuari was putting up in the second half of the season, and for Senna- I just really want to believe that Bruno can live up to the Senna name.
Talent seems to be less important these days, because from the midfield the most impressive guys were Sutil, Alguesuari and Heidfeld yet all three find themselves dropped.
Is anyone interested in a motorsport master thread for 2012? The Monte is in 3 weeks and the Dakar is kicking off on Sunday. I've been thinking about a general motor racing thread that includes all the popular championships and events, but I fear that'll be too much work for too few readers ~_~
On November 26 2011 04:42 Vagabond wrote: Well the BBC have just screwed us for thier live 10 races, and will show non full High lights for the races they won't be covering live. yet they will still send thier team to all races. 15 April: China 13 May: Spain 27 May: Monaco 24 June: Europe 8 July: Britain 2 September: Belgium 23 September: Singapore 14 October: Korea 4 November: Abu Dhabi 25 November: Brazil While sky sets up a new Teleshopping channel which will cost £10.50 a month extra or Free if you have the HD package or Skysports 1 and 2 to show 20 races.
bah, and i thought that the bbc would be smart and make the 10 races they would put on delay the ones not in europe.
On November 26 2011 04:42 Vagabond wrote: Well the BBC have just screwed us for thier live 10 races, and will show non full High lights for the races they won't be covering live. yet they will still send thier team to all races. 15 April: China 13 May: Spain 27 May: Monaco 24 June: Europe 8 July: Britain 2 September: Belgium 23 September: Singapore 14 October: Korea 4 November: Abu Dhabi 25 November: Brazil While sky sets up a new Teleshopping channel which will cost £10.50 a month extra or Free if you have the HD package or Skysports 1 and 2 to show 20 races.
bah, and i thought that the bbc would be smart and make the 10 races they would put on delay the ones not in europe.
Thx to live in Canada.. TSN and RDS show all the race live in HD
Damn, sad to see barrichello go ;; Grew up with the schumacher/barrichello@ferrari oh well, grats to senna, hopefully we can see williams get slightly more in form this year
Also, toro rosso fighting :D
EDIT; I don't know if this is the right place for it, but if you haven't gotten the Haynes RB6 manual i highly recommend it-very informative ^^
EPT
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Pastor Maldonado, 25![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/xIy5N.jpg)
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Paul di Resta, 24![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/qQrxV.jpg)
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Jerome D'Ambrosio, 25![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/sQ6kO.jpg)
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Sergio Perez, 21![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TJZZt.jpg)
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Daniel Ricciardo, 22![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/GJhgl.png)
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Fernando Alonso, 29![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/MN3J1.jpg)
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Felipe Massa, 29![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/2CS6I.gif)
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Vitaly Petrov, 26![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/JxMMe.jpg)
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Kamui Kobayashi, 24![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/J7RI9.jpg)
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Sebastien Buemi, 22![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/J6aJN.jpg)
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Jarno Trulli, 36![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/9D8k9.jpg)
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Heikki Kovalainen, 29![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/vRDVG.jpg)
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Narain Karthikeyan, 34![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/EdQcj.jpg)
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The other two have done little to deserve their drives.
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![[image loading]](http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljg64ttbS91qbm0mn.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ezHeM.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qWP7k.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8AJws.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/u6ph1.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N6GGi.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7hugl.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zPQki.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/br4zS.png)
![[image loading]](http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3530/6a42e56c4c.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8572/hamiltonmonaco2011t1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/hami_mcla_montreal_2011_2.jpg)
Ferrari looking very strong this weekend, if it is dry I think Alonso will win.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0eLzd.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/N868b.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/w7S6e.png)
+1 for Croatia xD.
![[image loading]](http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/images/AB12_15_05copy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J53r9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ATeH1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RNen8.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/awJZc.jpg)
