On January 21 2011 07:14 Hynda wrote: What? Why? Why make a sequel to a game that bad, hell even the reviewers over here wrecked it. Just make a new one, and make it good instead. I hated FFXIII with a passion for its lack luster story... infact lack luster everything. There are about 2 good scens in the entire game (This being the "Shooting kids ain't one of them" and Snow/boomerangkids ending arc, and this comes from someone that loved FFX. Yea, I rather watch the "Do our best" Scene on an infinite loop than play FFXIII again.
I know it's a quick cash in, but really everyone at least over here seems to hate FFXIII, why not just make FF popular game -2 instead?
Quality mainstream game reviewers disappeared a long time ago. It's kind of foolish to go by anything they say.
And who said everyone hated XIII? You mean the internet? Because the internet hated X-2, the internet hated XII, and yeah, the internet hates XIII.
Funny how they are such popular games in reality though. I'm glad Square doesn't give a shit about message boards, as they rightfully shouldn't.
Ofcourse someone liked it, but I havn't met a single person in real life, or read a single really properly positive review of it even in the established magazines over here nor have I ventured to anything on teh intrawebs where the majority was in favour of this abomination. I am ofcourse helped by the fact that I played it myself and I just can not for the life of me see the appeal. The story is horrible. The main character is so damn inconsistent in her behaviour that she is about as belivable as a sock puppet, and the game itself is ridiculously short for a final fantasy game (and that shows oh that shows) The story ends when you reach the place with the hunts, after that point there isn't a single piece of relevant story.
All the characters that could have been intresting and gets completly tossed aside. Hell some of them go and presumably die off screen aswell as one of them comming back as Zombie only to be instantly killed again meaning that entire chapter was completly flippin' pointless. Trust me I tried seeing the good parts of this game but they are so few and far apart that the drag that is between them just ruins the few good moments.
And people go "Oh atleast the battle system was ok". It really wasn't, it was good for a Final Fantasy battle system, but hell they should have learned by now. Other games have rushed so far ahead of the FF-system that it's starting to become a standing joke. ToS a game released in 2004 (that's 6 and half years ago!) is so damn superior to the FFXIII one that it's not even funny.
What about the story is actually horrible? FF games don't try to have terribly deep stories, rather they execute a compelling narrative that sends an easy to understand yet strong message. I know that arguing about story quality is hard to do, but I really don't see how you could even come close to calling XIII horrible. It's one of the better ones in the franchise, probably only second to X's. The premise is imaginative, and the characters are colorful and serve a purpose.
Lightning behaves inconsistently because of something called character development. In the beginning of the game she is full of guilt for what has become of her sister, and she takes that guilt out on those around her -- blaming people like Snow. She is like this until the moment she is abandoning Hope and her Eidolon appears. She protects him and they fight alongside each other, and this is where she almost becomes the big sister figure to Hope that she never was able to be to Serah. She guides Hope along in this way in the next segment of the game.
Now, I could keep going. I could write explanations like that for each character. But I'm not trying to make the case that these characters are insanely deep or something pretentious like that. XIII has a story about the strength of the human spirit, with emotionally engaging cutscenes that advance each character's plight (with the climax being at the Eidolon segments). Throughout the story, the characters are confused and in despair, but eventually each changes in a way that pushes them all the way to the final encounter. This is where we learn that the Fal'Cie's have limited power even though they are demi-gods, where as humans have infinite potential, and the Fal'Cies use them as tools as a result. It's corny, as all FFs are, and sometimes comes on a bit strong -- but overall it's a beautiful tale.
I think people get caught up on things like the game not having a memorable villain. Well, it really wasn't meant to. It's a battle against the inevitable, there is no Kekfa, Sephiroth or Seymour to kill children or burn down your home in a way to make you hate them. Much of the conflict in XIII is the characters battling themselves. It's a different styled narrative and understandably some people aren't going to approve of the change, but does that really mean it's poorly made?
I'll leave those thoughts there for now. As for game length, you're basically grasping at straws here to make this game out to be as terrible as you can. The game is 45 hours for a straight playthrough. That is pretty much identical to both the length of XII and X (both superb games too, by the way). If you do the hunts after beating the game, you can easily have an 80 hour game on your hands.
About the battle system. It is also designed around a very different philosophy compared to previous FFs. Instead of planning out skills to use, XIII is very reaction based as the dynamic of the battle constantly shifts, and you need to compensate for that by changing your approach in response. A turtle is about to stomp, oh shit! You have less than a second to switch back to your Sentinels. While regular battles aren't as intense as the boss battles (game had amazing boss battles, by the way), and combat in the beginning is more basic (as FFs always are made) -- it still presents you with interesting situations while being fluid enough to not get annoying. It does falter at some points primarily because of a few instances of poor pacing, but the system itself is a blast to play with. Not to mention the game looks absolutely stunning at any given point. And I'd personally say the music has outdone FFX's, but that's an issue of personal taste.
Still, if you didn't like it, that's fine. I hate a lot of games too, and some games I hate are actually pretty well made. Sometimes you have to step back and think about how a game was actually designed, and what it was trying to achieve. I'm open to negative opinions, but don't let the strong feelings you have for the FF franchise cloud your judgement. Because that only produces the worst kinds of discussion.
I dont have a problem with the storyline as much as I just hated how the characters acted at times. They rarely took a logical approach to anything and they often acted unrealistically overemotional. Especially when their eidolons appeared with maybe the exception being Sazh who actually had a somewhat valid reason to freak out.
I mean, the only the character I could see that acted a bit over the top of was Hope -- but even then that really only reminded of me oh how irrational/stupid children can be. I understand everyone who hates him, but I guess they got the child mentality right then didn't they? =p
Other than that, their lives are on a time limit and they have no clue where to go, so they are going to act on their instinctive emotions. Snow is delusional and wants to be heroic, Lightning feels guilty and wants to take it out on whatever is in her way, Fang only wants to protect Vanille, Vanille simply doesn't want to hurt anyone else, and Sazh is a failed father. Once again, I'm not saying it's anything deep here, and the game is melodramatic as FFs so often are, but I felt it was pretty emotional and well executed.
Hopefully XIII-2 is just fan service so people won't get their hopes up this time =D
The cutscenes and characters were a bit too cheesy really, esp that girl dno what she was called again. The story was filled with drama and was weird overall, not much fun / cool stuff like the other FF's.
And the combat, while it has alot of potential, was pretty boring. Only thing you have to do on some of the 'harder' mobs is buff yourself, debuff enemy, and then just use the auto ability thing. So the only thing you basicly need to do is to switch paradigms once in a while. They should give more control to the player like all the other FF's and not like FF 12 and 13 where 95% goes automaticly, if you set it up well. Just give the player more control, would make the combat more dynamic aswell as it's you who is making the decision, not the computer. That being said, it does have alot of room for improvement and the stagger mechanic could make up for a very fun and unique system.
As for being linear, it's not bad per se, but they went over the top with it. There is almost nothing to explore except in chapter 11, which is the most fun part in the game imo. The rest of the chapters is almost literaly straight lines you have to go through, with some little detours left and right but nothing fancy. But, when I enter a dungeon I want to explore and find hidden items and other things. That is what I missed most about the leveldesign.
And one other thing was that all the weapons were just sidegrades, even maxed most weapons had very similair stats, except for the bonus. It's just weird that weapons you find later in the game are generally worse because they aren't upgraded and the bonus is not worth upgrading them for, so you play pretty much most of the game with the same weapon.
I generally liked the game though, just that it could've been alot better.
Previous FFs were more disguised versions of linearity anyways. You'd have a world map early on but of course places would be sealed off or too powerful for you to explore. That element was really for people who wanted to go out of their way to over power their characters and seeks ultimate items. Understandably, some people may not like that XIII does not have a town to fool around with, chocbos to raise, or a secret mansion to explore -- but overall, ditching those elements almost makes the game feel more contemporary. Those aspects of older games are almost just cute little nods to the JRPG genre of the past. Not to say towns and exploration can't be done in a modern RPG (XII did it very well), but Square clearly had a style of game in mind with the narrative they chose with XIII. It was bold, and definitely a love or hate it design.
It's easy to understand where fans would feel alienated by XII and XIII, but they are excellent games in their own right.
Oh I just pleasantly surprised myself. Full trailer of XIII-2.
- Some quicktime finishers for boss fights, apparently - Snow's crew seems to be much more involved in this game, but where's Snow? - Soundtrack sounds great, very Masahi Hamauzu like (he did some stuff in FFX, you'll probably hear the similarities) - Lightning is playable, eventually - No Vanille in a g-string, perhaps her and Fang aren't coming back =[ - Combat looks very similar, some new mechanics of engagement though - Some odd platform segments [MINI GAMES!] - Radar indicates noticeably more complex paths
Seems like a lot of 2 person party play, how will they make that interesting?
I've always thought that Final Fantasy XIII didn't get a fair shake. Admittedly, it was an overwhelmingly linear journey—player agency wasn't topmost among the priorities incorporated into its development. But it was an extraordinarily intentional game; nothing about it ever felt accidental or unplanned. It did a few things, but it did them exceedingly well: excellent combat, well-produced cut scenes, a surprisingly mature narrative, and quality voice-acting. But all of that deliberateness—of which I was a fan—came at the expense of a certain amount of freedom that many fans expect from the series. XIII-2 is looking to change much of that.
The Final Fantasy XIII-2 E3 demo gave the impression of a game that is a much looser experience than its predecessor. The environments were larger and more meandering, the gameplay systems more varied, and the character models and plot elements especially flamboyant (and often obscure). It's clear that the developers are prepared to emphasize gameplay this time around, even if it comes at the expense of consistent world-building and narrative plausibility. This isn't necessarily a bad thing—but those expecting a direct continuation of XIII might find the sequel jarring.
The demo was set in a sprawling complex identified as the Bresha Ruins. It was raining, and large droplets of water periodically splashed on the screen. The soundtrack was familiar, but very vocal-heavy; at one point it slipped into rap. I controlled Noel, a young man dressed in a blue garb that was very suggestive of Fang's costume in the previous title. In tow was Serah, Lightning's younger sister, and—surprise!—a moogle.
Aside from being a throw-back to the franchise's older days, this moogle appears to serve multiple functions, For one, he (or she—it's terribly hard to tell) can transform into Serah's weapon, either a bow or sword. Outside of combat, pressing the gamepad's left trigger will make him to perform a scan of the area, occasionally revealing hidden treasure orbs. He's sort of goofy; it would be hard to imagine a comparable character alongside the high-drama of the the last installment. But there's something charming about having him tag along. Like many of the new elements I saw in this demo, I struggled to see how the moogle would fit into the title's larger framework.
The Ruins were populated with non-playable-characters, something we didn't see too much of in Final Fantasy XIII. Now you can talk to many of them by using the confirmation button. No more strangers yammering-off whenever you walk in front of them. It had more in common with the way the series has handled NPCs in the past. They were still fully voiced, but their dialogue could be scrolled, and would even change depending on how many times they were engaged. The alleyways, plazas and staircases—full of people wandering and going about their business—reminded me of the cities of Final Fantasy XII. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a return to a more traditional, hub-like structure in XIII-2, with shops and side missions.
The story is quite confusing, and despite my being a seasoned (and enthusiastic) player of XIII, threw me for a loop.
Square Enix is being tight-lipped about the title's narrative. The story is quite confusing, and despite my being a seasoned (and enthusiastic) player of XIII, threw me for a loop. Apparently, the game is set in an alternate reality situated sometime after the events of the first title. Lightning is missing. Or simply doesn't exist. It was difficult to get a straight answer. At any rate, Serah is the only person who believes that Lightning is still out there somewhere, and sets off to discover her older sister's condition and whereabouts. There was a lot of dialogue about time traveling, and alternate dimensions, leading me to believe that the plot will incorporate some form of cross-dimensional adventuring.
Combat plays out much the same as did in the previous game: there are paradigms, auto-battle, and a three-character party. But this time, the action is broken up by quick-time-events called "Live Triggers", the conditions for which appeared to be random. Of major interest is the inclusion of monster-type allies in battle. In the course of the demo, I linked up with a flan, a behemoth and some sort of rock-based beast that had particular combat specialties. Switching paradigms would automatically reassign the appropriate monster ally to my party; a defensive paradigm might feature the rock monster as a sentinel, for example, or a ravager-intensive paradigm would bring in the flan. According to Square Enix, these monsters can be permanently recruited by collecting crystals at the end of battles and will experience some form of level-up as the game progresses.
Final Fantasy XIII-2 Has Transforming Moogles, Recruitable Monsters and RapCombat also received an overhaul. The demo was a lot more generous in dolling out preemptive attacks, thanks to yet another moogle-involved subsystem referred to as "Mog Clock." Whenever Noel entered within the radius of an enemy or group of enemies (who had a tendency to spawn out of the ground, rather than be visible far into the distance), a color-coded count-down timer appeared at the bottom of the UI. Engage the enemy while the timer is still green, and you'll receive a preemptive attack and all the bonuses therein. If the timer is yellow, you'll enter battle with neither any special advantages nor penalties. And a red timer, as you could probably guess, is bad news.
There's more. Puzzles, actually. Entering into a "Temporal Rift" (whatever that is) toward the end of the demo brought Noel and co. into a abstract space, with a tile floor plotted down the center. The tiles formed a puzzle: each time Noel stepped on one, it would disappear. The challenge consisted of having to collect tokens arranged at intervals along the tiles, all the while making it from point A to point Z without backtracking. The puzzle wasn't particularly difficult or riveting, but it was an inoffensive way to break up the action. It was yet another way in which the game felt like a grab-bag of ideas and systems.
My 25 minutes with Final Fantasy XIII-2 ended in an unexpected way. It gave me a choice. A big choice. Would I attempt to attack big ol' colossus head-on or take the scenic route and try lowering its defenses via some ancient machinery? The game was proud of this decision-point moment: the prompt expanded to fill the entire screen. Fun demo, but I couldn't help but worry—is this title attempting to do too much at once?
It may be nice that they are more paths to run around in but that means the surrounding level has to be more impressive and actually have content. It's no good having a big level with a million offshoot paths if it feels like it's just empty space.
My problem with ffx-2 was that the story was told and concluded in ffx, so there was no reason for a sequel. I didn't know what the hell was going on in ff13, so maybe a sequel would actually help. If gameplay hasn't improved, though, I'm not so sure if I care.
I seriously dislike the direction it's taking story wise, seems like they're trying to push another overly romantic story like they did with x-2. With that said, the game play still seems solid and the new stuff with less linearity all sounds like a really good combo and the story, hopefully even with romance, has plenty of room to be better than 13. I'll play it either way because I'm an FF fan, but I actually think I'll like this sequel and not finish it in 12 hours.
On January 21 2011 03:29 Obsidian wrote: Combat was still fun, and one of the best they've yet done. The plot wasn't exactly bad either, so I don't understand the hatred for the game.
The internet raged over FF12 as well, which is a brilliant game too. It's just a tradition that people get pissed about every new FF not being like the one they played before.
Agreed but FF13 is somewhat understandable since it lacked towns and was really linear for the most part (FF10 was linear too but it at least had the ability to visit old towns, play mini games, look for hidden loot, etc).
One reason they ditched towns wasn't because they wanted to but because they lacked the funds/time apparently (yeah it is easier and lazier just to ditch them >.>).
Good news for FF13-2 (for whoever hasn't heard already).
1. Towns!
2. Basically they took the feedback from FF13 reception and will make the game less linear and feature multiple dialogue choices and NPCs. Multiple dialogue choices won't affect the ending or anything (they're just there to to give different responses, maybe different conversations, etc.).
3. Also multiple endings too (hmm I wonder how this will go? ).
4. Possibly new game+.
5. Hopefully Vanille will come back and/is playable >.>. (She will make an appearance according to her VA but no word on whether she is playable or what role she will play).
January 31, 2012 release date for NA / February 3 for PAL.
Also this is unconfirmed by the registered a domain name for FFXII-3 or something like that (so possibly a second sequel making it a trilogy if the game does well I assume? Though to be fair it doesn't mean much since they have registered website names up to FF20 or something already so yeah).
For people who disliked FF13, you should definitely be on the look out for the sequel since they said they listened to all the feedback from FF13 and are taking that in consideration with development for FF13-2.
I am so.... well, not mad, but just... bleh. The story line seems so out of line... Serah is the only one from the last game, as well as Snow's crew, so where the hell is Snow.... I did read that review saying that it could be some alternate reality though, so hopefully all of my woes will be solved when I actually play the game. Hoping to see Snow, Hope, Lightning, and Sazh have an important role though.... Obviously not the two pulse girls since they're crystals... meh.
Seriously, life is too short to play mini games and do side-quests. I hate the large contingent of people that wanna make RPGs into single player MMOs. That's so boring.
The eidolon part wasn't paced right in FFXIII as it felt like it dragged on and on but the basic design choice that you only get to experience what's important is pretty great. FFXIII was boring for another reason: it wasn't challenging. It only started getting tough when the game opened up in the second half where you're expected to do side-quests and grind your life out.
Another ridiculous part is the sprinkled enemies on the path. Why would you put filler enemies between where I am and where I need to be? That's just being a dick and making your game longer than it deserves to be.
I think the FF series needs to overcome a severe flaw in its RPG formua. What I mean is that they can't control the level of challenge in the game very well due to the nature of RPGs. They can't predict how strong you're gonna be at a certain point. They can't predict if you have the ability to even do the proper counter to a boss. They need an innovation like Regenerative Health was in the FPS realm.
As a complete experience I think MGS4 was better designed than FFXIII. In MGS4 there's always an interesting twist to what you have to do in any given level. It never takes too long to go from point A to point B and the level of challenge is very well controlled. If FFXIII managed to have more interesting combat mechanics, got rid of or reduced the amount of unchallenging and non-essential fights and stuck to its guns instead of becoming a different game halfway through... I think FFXIII could have been considered a timeless classic the same way MGS4 is considered as such.
It's funny that MGS4 is even more linear than FFXIII yet people never mention it as a particular problem. Aside from the allusions to the extremely long cutscenes, which I am a big fan of.
(In reply to holdthephone's thoughts about the AI/character type switching during fights, I agree that dynamism of it welcome but it sucks that it is largely stuck obeying the typical DPS/TANK/HEAL paradigm. It's also kind of trial and error to find out just how much DPS you can afford to dish out. It's not really a skill, you just have to re-try the boss until you can predict his moves in advance. Those flaws are pretty unfortunate.)
EPT
Obviously not the two pulse girls since they're crystals...
