My take on the finished product (post-release discussion starts at around page 10 of the thread): ------------------------
The second attempt to append the '-2' to a Final Fantasy title launches in a fashion even more ridiculous than what fans may remember of Square's first stab at the idea. Instead of Final Fantasy X-2's summoner turned pop star, however, Final Fantasy XIII-2 sings to a more serious opening tune. A spectacular sequence of CGI and admirably done interactive action scenes -- tightly woven around composer Masashi Hamauzu's yearning violin and orchestra -- reacquaints players with Lightning, the heroine of their previous adventure. But she's a different Lightning, a woman now adorned with plate armor, a shield, and a cloak of feathers draping at her side -- a divine soldier of sorts. It would seem her ending was not the happy one everyone had witnessed before the credits rolled. Instead she faces a new foe, a purple haired man (to rival her pink) who expresses a grim wish for destruction, clashing swords on the outskirts of the universe.
Cinematic action sequences offer intense and potentially branching outcomes in a handful of the game's more epic encounters.
Awakened by visions of this supernatural confrontation, Serah -- Lightning's younger sister and Snow's fiancé, should players recall -- finds her quiet coastal village suddenly under siege by monsters from another time period. A new friend appears amongst the confusion, a young man by the name of Noel Kreiss. He carries a warning from an apocalyptic future that he himself is all too familiar with, and a plea for help from Lightning in trying to save it. As they speak, the timeline of the world is turning onto itself, creating paradoxes (contradictions) in various time periods. A series of time gates also appear, devices Serah and Noel must use to steer the world away from destruction.
The two characters have surprisingly approachable personalities, are well voiced, and keep the player on track with a story full of silly pseudoscience terminology. Sometimes the game feels like it's dumbing down its own plot a bit too heavily in this regard, spelling out and repeating concepts several times over (an excellent drinking game). Most of the cutscenes then, do end up being elementary back and forth conversations between Serah and Noel, lacking much action until the ending segments. It still proceeds at an interesting pace, taking a well mannered approach by allowing players to select occasional dialogue choices to pursue information that puzzles them.
An older Hope proves to be a central cameo in XIII-2, and he earns the role.
The sappy nature of Final Fantasy is all still there, of course, the best and the worst of it. Serah is quite sincere in a warm way, and Noel's cheesy, Tom Cruise like aura can easily bring out the occasional smirk. But unfortunately, eyes will surely roll to the ceiling whenever Lightning speaks, often having to chime in with a solemn monologue at the end of each scene, narrating from the beyond in some awful kind of poetry. It's an overdone pep talk of not giving up hope, leaving the past behind, and moving forward that the game won't stop repeating; even in the vocals of some poppy music tracks for certain environments.
Fielding the message much more gracefully is the universe itself, with XIII-2 rserving a respectable piece of its predecessor's beautiful presentation. The game begins in the beachside town of New Bodhum, a place that warmly conveys the efforts of mankind to recreate the lives and memories they had within Cocoon, all while adapting to hardships of the real world. The image of Cocoon held up by Vanille and Fang's crystal pillar in the night sky makes an excellent visual backdrop here, a reminder of the past, and a valuable lesson to the future. What follows is one of Square's most open-ended entries to the Final Fantasy franchise, a game lovingly built to give players unprecedented access to a world they had only scraped the surface of before.
Few areas live up to the visual bar raised by XIII, but the astonishing city of Academia stands above all the rest.
Serah and Noel will quickly leave the New Bodhum of the year 3 AF, and revisit locales of the game's predecessor, many of them fully re-imagined and changed by the flow of time. The experiences therein are both nostalgic and wholesome, a memoir and playground for those returning. Players will swing vine to vine through the Sunleth Waterscape, return to the Archelyte Steppe when it was first inhabited by nomadic hunters, and revisit areas that still carry the emotional weight from the events of XIII -- with frequent nods to its original soundtrack. And there are new areas to see as well, some dark and apocalyptic, others teeming with life and civilization. In one such optimistic timeline is the existence Academia, a sprawling futuristic city that has to be Final Fantasy XIII-2's crowning artistic achievement for its expansiveness and absurd attention to detail.
Clumsily exiting each time gate, Serah and Noel casually wipe the dirt off their knees before setting out to solve the paradox of each area -- finding what doesn't belong. But sometimes there are missing items that should belong, and thus the premise for XIII-2's grand easter egg hunt is set. Serah's magical sidekick, Mog, is the key to finding these items of interest; devices or treasure phased out of the current timeline. They are recognizable by their skirting level of transparent camouflage, lining the nooks and crannies of all environments. It's a shameless addiction, where coming across hidden treasure often by accident is always a welcome surprise, and motivation to keep the eyes squinted. Mog will light up with a pinkish glow if he senses anything nearby, and he'll also leap into Serah's arms as a nifty bow-sword when enemies suddenly appear. Random encounters are back.
Noel gives Mog a good toss to some hard to reach treasure. Hearing the little guy cry never gets old.
Yes, back and exceptionally executed, offering a simple solution to the frustrating instant battle screens that have sometimes haunted RPGs of the past. Enemies are instead seen before being engaged, surrounding Serah and Noel but giving them ample time to weigh options. A timer appears, and this prompts an opportunity to enter the battle screen with a pre-emptive strike, and also one to simply keep running until the aggressors are left behind. The first strike opportunity proves invaluable, as achieving the 5 star battle performance rating actually has meaning in XIII-2, yielding higher drop rates for both normal and rare loot to players who perform well in combat. And now that players can both see and run away from most enemies, it makes seeking and capturing ones not already owned a painless affair.
Monster hunting is one of the biggest new pulls to the XIII universe, and XIII-2's most rewarding aspect. Practically anything encountered in the game -- from tiny gooey flan creatures, to a menacing behemoth, to a giant cactuar creature -- is useable as a 3rd wheel to Serah and Noel's battle party. Obtaining one is as simple as defeating it and hoping it goes into inventory, but finding personal favorites and rarities is where the fun lies; each monster specializing under a certain role players of XIII will be most familiar with. A creature's primary use may also be as fodder for infusion, essentially letting one monster consume another for its abilities -- a powerful tool for those who delve more deeply. Lastly, each creature also has its own unique feral link ability, a powerful skill that can turn the tide of tight battles, reminiscent the character overdrives of Final Fantasy X.
A shallow but harmless throwback to Final Fantasy VII, captured chocbos can be raced for useful prizes
And so the combat is of the same handsome design of its predecessor's, and with monsters simply being a stand-in for a 3rd human member, it's easy to get right back on track. The combat is again structured around building the gauge bars above enemies until they Stagger, creating an exciting opportunity to deal maximum damage. With reactionary precision, players are to change their party between offensive paradigms to build the gauges, while mitigating damage from real-time attacks by switching to a more defensive approach. Keeping the offense alive and the party healthy is a potentially intense affair players of Final Fantasy XIII need not be reminded of, nor of its visual splendor. XIII-2 also manages to fix the slumping endurance encounters of the past with quicker battles and a faster introduction to the fully working system. But it also introduces new problems, carrying itself through a painfully easy plot line.
The new paradigm tuning allows players to slightly manipulate the A.I. more to their liking.
This arises from the fact that Final Fantasy XIII-2 is extremely fragile with its open approach to progression. The Crystarium does indeed return as a model to pour experience points into, and perhaps its new interpretation will initially feel more rewarding than XIII's. But It is all too abusable this time around, and while farming a powerful party panders to the enjoyment of certain RPG gamers, it shouldn't be so simple to achieve by complete accident.
Exorbitant amounts of experience points simply roll in, especially if a player -- even for a moment -- gives into the temptation of additional monster hunting and sidequests. The Crsyatirum then offers paths for characters to take at each level -- a choice to open up a tree for another role (i.e. Sentinel), to add another attack to the time gauge, or to expand accessory capacity -- but experienced RPG players will logically step back and see right through the charade. Expanding to more roles early on is flatly unintelligent given that monsters collected can fill the gaps for a missing Saboteur, Synergist, etc... Focusing on 1-2 roles before harnessing all 5 will instead lead to a powerful group early on, and why pursue the increased accessory capacity when the crucial ones don't appear until the game's final portions?
Still, taking an alternate time gate at several points of the game can -- unbeknownst to the player -- lead to a path where enemies suddenly begin scrubbing health bars clean. But the challenge spikes are much less apparent compared to the sudden prolonged lulls in difficulty for much of the game's core 25 hours. If approached with the logical mentality as described above -- especially if having found a monster who's Crystarium peaks early to powerful levels -- the game presents an inclination to sit on offensive paradigms with Ravagers and Commandos for much of its entirety. This is where XIII had an emotionally charged narrative to accompany its drier battle segments, a distraction XIII-2 pursues with unimpressive results.
The saving grace of many of the game's easier battles is their brevity, as compared to the more drawn out affairs of Final Fantasy XIII.
Bosses in between the confrontations with the game's purple haired antagonist, Caius, pose no relevance to the characters by comparison. A giant paradoxical colossus lashes out of thin air; half of its body trapped in another dimension. The paradox of another time period somehow lies in the jaws of a dragon. These enemies are often of impressive scale, but they have no words to say, no questions to raise, and the music accompanying them is equally less than sincere. Whether met with a powerful Crystarium and steamrolled over, or met with a weaker party and challenged considerably -- players will find these central encounters quite forgettable.
Caius alone leads XIII-2 to an ending with a string of impressive scenes, demanding fights, and powerful lines of dialogue -- but somewhere along the way the game completely forgot to develop his character, or did it so dimly it was difficult to appreciate. His motivations seem tied to Yuehl, a soft spoken doll-like girl that no really ever gets to know. And while most will point to XIII-2's cliffhanger ending as reason for this ultimately disappointing campaign -- raising more questions than it answers -- it's the fact the game ends based upon such a ridiculous guise of motives that no one can possibly relate to it. There is no message this time around, nothing to walk away with.
Caius and Yuehl are of paramount significance to the events in XIII-2, but lend no emotional punch.
The ending to Final Fantasy XIII contained a contradiction; it broke the rules. But it rang true to the game's overarching theme of the infinite strength of the human spirit, with characters that declared they would contradict all the rules -- a touching note to end on. Final Fantasy XIII-2 then desperately jumps through fanatical loops in trying to dismantle the respectable conclusion of another game, and to a point of near hilarity. Savvy followers may even have questions of smaller magnitude, such as why everyone is suddenly capable of using magic. Well they just can, says the game's datalog. Why didn't Square just make Lightning a pop singer and call it a day?
But it's naïve to say it all ends there, and unfair to claim that Final Fantasy XIII-2 isn't for the fans. It's not even half complete when the credits roll, and a plethora of content still waits untapped. It's a monster collector's favorite hunting spot, a trailblazer's backpack of spoils, and a completionist's paradise. Cameos and salutes to older games abound, challenges to truly test those thirsty for battle await, and powerful skills and items lie in hiding -- this is a gamer's game, and it's damn well appreciated.
X-2 was a lot of fun though. It was fan service and had a sweet battle system. The internet hated it but it was actually a huge hit amongst a lot of fans.
This one also looks like crazy fan service, which is fine by me.That is the most baller design for Lightning. Holy shit.
Wow lightning looks so cool in that new gear etc. Wonder who that is shes fighting with at the end. I might have to play through FF13 again in order to refresh my memory. Wonder if they will keep the basic gameplay the same...decent battle system but linear story etc.
I had most fun in Gran Pulse when it turned into like free roam mode. Lots of fun running around there.
On January 19 2011 03:12 Foreplay wrote: ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I didn't HATE ff13 but i kinda wouldve rather had a whole new ff game.
You mean like FFXIII Agito?
How about FFXIII Versus
Why not FFXIII-2?
:3
Wow I must be retarded I was under the impression that Agito and Versus were the same game. but apparently there are 3 other final fantasy games going to be released in the next 2 years, thats insane.
I though FF XIII was pretty good aside from the linearity. With XIII - 2 I just hope they don't mess it up with some stupid idea someone came up with at a meeting like in X - 2.
Well.. that trailer was a tease. I loved FF13, I still think about it from time to time. It wasn't the greatest RPG but I really became attached to it. BTW Fuck Hope, he's nothing but a bitch! I hope he dies in FF13-2.
If they listen to the feedback the players gave they could actually turn this into a really epic game. Tho I'm not going to get my hopes up like before.
Trailer looks kinda silly imo. I liked 13s gameplay and visuals and that was about it. The main scheme of 13 was fine just alot of how everything went down was pretty dumb imo. For instance everyone randomly freaking out emotionally for their summons to appear or them taking a ridiculous amount of time to realize that they should check out gran pulse or the ending cinematic that I thought was just jawdroppingly silly. Anyways what I'm trying to get at is this trailer makes me think the story will be even worse than 13s. Oh well as long as the gameplay is good I suppose.
Also whatever happened to 13 versus? That games trailers looked pretty awesome, but it seems like its been ages since I have seen them.
edit:And also maybe we could get our final weapons before the game is over and not have to grind 10 hours to get one? That would be cool.
If you check out the other person on the logo with Lightning who she had a clash with in the Trailer, she strikes a great deal of resemblence to the "boss" that the main character fights towards the end of the trailer..
Oh damn lightning looks so baller. I really need to finish off 13... Can't wait for this hopefully theirs a bit more freedom but I doubt it considering how close the release dates are they were probably making this at the same time or straight after.
Going to be a buy for sure tho and will enjoy it even if it plays just like ff13, although its better when its let linear .
my inner final-fantasy fanboy wants me to get this game (the end of the trailer looks so epic >.<), but I have a feeling that FFXIII - 2 will just lead to a massive disappointment =\
時は失われ、時が流れた Time has been lost, time has passed 女神エトロよ、安らかに眠れ。 The Goddess Etro rests in peace その思いは、私が守ろう。 That hope, I will protect it 失われた時、私は二度目の生を得る。 The time that was lost, I will earn my second life
The English trailer is also out. I'm super pumped for this actually. I loved FFXIII.
Square Enix Europe has said that the game "exceeds Final Fantasy XIII in every aspect", with its every aspect being evolved including the battle system.
people assume that linearity is a bad thing. They fail to realize the linearity of the entire FF series.
FF 1, basically linear path, there really wasn't much option to roam, and what little there was normally brought on nothing but death. FF 2, roam all you want, but you'll die quick if you wander into the wrong zone FF 3, move from one plot point to another in a fairly linear path... FF 4-12 (minus 11) and FFT were all rather linear games. There was very little room for branching and wandering/exploration. Maybe FF13 was a bit railroad-ish, but it wasn't the only game to be linear, and Gran Pulse was quite open, if insanely difficult when you first get there.
Most RPGs railroad you into going to certain places, at certain times, and have ways and means of stopping you from exploring much, if at all... FF13 was just a little bit more blatant about it.
Combat was still fun, and one of the best they've yet done. The plot wasn't exactly bad either, so I don't understand the hatred for the game.
On January 21 2011 03:29 Obsidian wrote: Combat was still fun, and one of the best they've yet done. The plot wasn't exactly bad either, so I don't understand the hatred for the game.
The internet raged over FF12 as well, which is a brilliant game too. It's just a tradition that people get pissed about every new FF not being like the one they played before.
What Lightning says in the trailer leads me to believe she'll be the only proper returning character. The others might make "cameos" but I imagine she'll be the sole focus of this game.
FFXIII had it's problems but I still loved it, the combat system was amazing if you chose to explore it a little (and not just spam auto for the whole game).
On January 21 2011 04:03 funcmode wrote: What Lightning says in the trailer leads me to believe she'll be the only proper returning character. The others might make "cameos" but I imagine she'll be the sole focus of this game.
FFXIII had it's problems but I still loved it, the combat system was amazing if you chose to explore it a little (and not just spam auto for the whole game).
Lighting was really the only character I actually want to see again so I'm down.
FF XIII biggest problem is the problem that every FF game will have. It's name is a legacy. People expect to have their minds blown away whenever they try a new FF, because everyone who loves the series have a favorite that changed their views on RPG's upside down. So when a new FF is released if it's okay, above average, good, really good or maybe even better then that a lot of people are getting disappointed that it's not like the game they really loved.
My personal favorite was FF VI (III outside Japan) as it was the first FF I tried and kinda my introduction to JRPG's. I think I've completed that game like 10 times in my youth . I know others had VII as their favorite and some liked games beyond those.
I only played VI and VII actually and came back to the world of RPG's after almost 10 years when I bought FF XIII and I wasnt disappointed at all. I really liked playing in "the tunnel" as the story, the graphics and the combat system was enough to carry the game. I even thought the worst part was Pulse despite having the freedom to go where I wanted to.
There are flaws in the game indeed, the story good as it is is a bit cheesy at times, the combat system even though innovative and very functional began to annoy me in the end. Towards the end I just wanted to finish the game as I got a little tirred of it all. Overall I think it was a great game though so I will definetly look forward to part 2 and hopefully SquareEnix have looked into the flaws of the first part and make an even better game.
What is funny though, when FF XIII was released SquareEnix denied that there was going to be a XIII-2 but other XIII would be available over time. I'm happy they changed their mind though, I've always been a fan of the classic JRPG's.
Exactly, as long as Square keeps making games this good there will be new fans born with each installment.
XIII really didn't have any glaring issues beyond some corny dialogue (FFs are all corny, and corny isn't necessarily bad, but some scenes are better than others), and a few instances of overly repetitive battles. Knocking it for linearity isn't really fair especially when it was handled so well. It's like bashing GTA for being too open because you're not a fan of sandbox games.
I think their biggest problem is trying to appeal to both their base and the casual, FPS-loving Western gamer at the same time. They should just say screw it and make games for their core Japanese audience. There are enough of us here in the west who love JRPGs to make it successful. At least it's better than their bastardized games that don't appeal to either.
I'll be honest, I wanted Sazh to return, don't know why, but I loved him...
As long as Hope is gone, I'll be happy. I figure though, Lightning is probably one of the only characters not busy with life stuff. Sazh gets reunited with his son. Snow goes off with his Girl. Hope dies in a fire (I hope...) and Fang and [what's her name] are probably still crystacles. Though I liked both of them too in their own way.
Etro is a goddess, apparently. That's what the Japanese was translated as. I wonder if it's mentioned in XIII's dialects...
I can only imagine what kind of make overs the other characters got if they are indeed returning. And if they aren't, then will this even be a party based RPG?
The premise reminds me of something from Valkyrie Profile.
Ugh the thing i hated about FFXIII wasn't gameplay or storyline, but the lore was retardumb. could not get immersed in that world, oh well. and thats something no sequel will ever fix.
The ppl who says that the combat system on ff13 was good simply haven't tried the others. I mean sure it wasn't bad but the thing is you couldn't play manually because of the obvious choice so you might have set it on auto for more challenge. There wasn't simply enough strategy. I really liked the ff12 one, it's just too bad that there weren't enough gambits and 90% of them were useless.
On January 21 2011 05:40 PanoRaMa wrote: What/who does "Etro" refer to in the trailer?
No Fang means no beastly commando
That's part of the problem with FF13. The lore was buried in the database/compendium thing they had and the game didn't do a good job of immersing you in it and giving the background story while you played.
What? Why? Why make a sequel to a game that bad, hell even the reviewers over here wrecked it. Just make a new one, and make it good instead. I hated FFXIII with a passion for its lack luster story... infact lack luster everything. There are about 2 good scens in the entire game (This being the "Shooting kids ain't one of them" and Snow/boomerangkids ending arc, and this comes from someone that loved FFX. Yea, I rather watch the "Do our best" Scene on an infinite loop than play FFXIII again.
I know it's a quick cash in, but really everyone at least over here seems to hate FFXIII, why not just make FF popular game -2 instead?
On January 21 2011 07:14 Hynda wrote: What? Why? Why make a sequel to a game that bad, hell even the reviewers over here wrecked it. Just make a new one, and make it good instead. I hated FFXIII with a passion for its lack luster story... infact lack luster everything. There are about 2 good scens in the entire game (This being the "Shooting kids ain't one of them" and Snow/boomerangkids ending arc, and this comes from someone that loved FFX. Yea, I rather watch the "Do our best" Scene on an infinite loop than play FFXIII again.
I know it's a quick cash in, but really everyone at least over here seems to hate FFXIII, why not just make FF popular game -2 instead?
Quality mainstream game reviewers disappeared a long time ago. It's kind of foolish to go by anything they say.
And who said everyone hated XIII? You mean the internet? Because the internet hated X-2, the internet hated XII, and yeah, the internet hates XIII.
Funny how they are such popular games in reality though. I'm glad Square doesn't give a shit about message boards, as they rightfully shouldn't.
FF13 has one of the best combatsystem of all FF's. It combines the classical ABS with a fresh realtime gameflow. It produces a good feeling in battle combined with tactical deph, for the first game with this system it was ok. I like both systems, a new RPG with the old ABS and modern graphics/animations combined with environment-interaction would be awesome but today gaming has become huge and most customers dont want the ABS from old games, its to slow.
Why, why, WHY?! Just remake 7 Square-Enix, its what the fans want. Let's hope this isn't as bad as X-2, but not getting a lot of hope from the trailer :[
On January 21 2011 07:14 Hynda wrote: What? Why? Why make a sequel to a game that bad, hell even the reviewers over here wrecked it. Just make a new one, and make it good instead. I hated FFXIII with a passion for its lack luster story... infact lack luster everything. There are about 2 good scens in the entire game (This being the "Shooting kids ain't one of them" and Snow/boomerangkids ending arc, and this comes from someone that loved FFX. Yea, I rather watch the "Do our best" Scene on an infinite loop than play FFXIII again.
I know it's a quick cash in, but really everyone at least over here seems to hate FFXIII, why not just make FF popular game -2 instead?
Quality mainstream game reviewers disappeared a long time ago. It's kind of foolish to go by anything they say.
And who said everyone hated XIII? You mean the internet? Because the internet hated X-2, the internet hated XII, and yeah, the internet hates XIII.
Funny how they are such popular games in reality though. I'm glad Square doesn't give a shit about message boards, as they rightfully shouldn't.
Ofcourse someone liked it, but I havn't met a single person in real life, or read a single really properly positive review of it even in the established magazines over here nor have I ventured to anything on teh intrawebs where the majority was in favour of this abomination. I am ofcourse helped by the fact that I played it myself and I just can not for the life of me see the appeal. The story is horrible. The main character is so damn inconsistent in her behaviour that she is about as belivable as a sock puppet, and the game itself is ridiculously short for a final fantasy game (and that shows oh that shows) The story ends when you reach the place with the hunts, after that point there isn't a single piece of relevant story.
All the characters that could have been intresting and gets completly tossed aside. Hell some of them go and presumably die off screen aswell as one of them comming back as Zombie only to be instantly killed again meaning that entire chapter was completly flippin' pointless. Trust me I tried seeing the good parts of this game but they are so few and far apart that the drag that is between them just ruins the few good moments.
And people go "Oh atleast the battle system was ok". It really wasn't, it was good for a Final Fantasy battle system, but hell they should have learned by now. Other games have rushed so far ahead of the FF-system that it's starting to become a standing joke. ToS a game released in 2004 (that's 6 and half years ago!) is so damn superior to the FFXIII one that it's not even funny.
lets hope this time around that square gives us characters that are actually likeable and a story that doesn't want to make me skip every cutscene. also, versus looks gooood.
Tell my pls what makes the ToS system superior to the FF ones? ^^ Most of the time you mash buttons like crazy and dont use half of the abilities, the only good thing about it are the combo-specials. Stop displaying your own opinion as facts.
On January 21 2011 07:14 Hynda wrote: What? Why? Why make a sequel to a game that bad, hell even the reviewers over here wrecked it. Just make a new one, and make it good instead. I hated FFXIII with a passion for its lack luster story... infact lack luster everything. There are about 2 good scens in the entire game (This being the "Shooting kids ain't one of them" and Snow/boomerangkids ending arc, and this comes from someone that loved FFX. Yea, I rather watch the "Do our best" Scene on an infinite loop than play FFXIII again.
I know it's a quick cash in, but really everyone at least over here seems to hate FFXIII, why not just make FF popular game -2 instead?
Quality mainstream game reviewers disappeared a long time ago. It's kind of foolish to go by anything they say.
And who said everyone hated XIII? You mean the internet? Because the internet hated X-2, the internet hated XII, and yeah, the internet hates XIII.
Funny how they are such popular games in reality though. I'm glad Square doesn't give a shit about message boards, as they rightfully shouldn't.
Ofcourse someone liked it, but I havn't met a single person in real life, or read a single really properly positive review of it even in the established magazines over here nor have I ventured to anything on teh intrawebs where the majority was in favour of this abomination. I am ofcourse helped by the fact that I played it myself and I just can not for the life of me see the appeal. The story is horrible. The main character is so damn inconsistent in her behaviour that she is about as belivable as a sock puppet, and the game itself is ridiculously short for a final fantasy game (and that shows oh that shows) The story ends when you reach the place with the hunts, after that point there isn't a single piece of relevant story.
All the characters that could have been intresting and gets completly tossed aside. Hell some of them go and presumably die off screen aswell as one of them comming back as Zombie only to be instantly killed again meaning that entire chapter was completly flippin' pointless. Trust me I tried seeing the good parts of this game but they are so few and far apart that the drag that is between them just ruins the few good moments.
And people go "Oh atleast the battle system was ok". It really wasn't, it was good for a Final Fantasy battle system, but hell they should have learned by now. Other games have rushed so far ahead of the FF-system that it's starting to become a standing joke. ToS a game released in 2004 (that's 6 and half years ago!) is so damn superior to the FFXIII one that it's not even funny.
What about the story is actually horrible? FF games don't try to have terribly deep stories, rather they execute a compelling narrative that sends an easy to understand yet strong message. I know that arguing about story quality is hard to do, but I really don't see how you could even come close to calling XIII horrible. It's one of the better ones in the franchise, probably only second to X's. The premise is imaginative, and the characters are colorful and serve a purpose.
Lightning behaves inconsistently because of something called character development. In the beginning of the game she is full of guilt for what has become of her sister, and she takes that guilt out on those around her -- blaming people like Snow. She is like this until the moment she is abandoning Hope and her Eidolon appears. She protects him and they fight alongside each other, and this is where she almost becomes the big sister figure to Hope that she never was able to be to Serah. She guides Hope along in this way in the next segment of the game.
Now, I could keep going. I could write explanations like that for each character. But I'm not trying to make the case that these characters are insanely deep or something pretentious like that. XIII has a story about the strength of the human spirit, with emotionally engaging cutscenes that advance each character's plight (with the climax being at the Eidolon segments). Throughout the story, the characters are confused and in despair, but eventually each changes in a way that pushes them all the way to the final encounter. This is where we learn that the Fal'Cie's have limited power even though they are demi-gods, where as humans have infinite potential, and the Fal'Cies use them as tools as a result. It's corny, as all FFs are, and sometimes comes on a bit strong -- but overall it's a beautiful tale.
I think people get caught up on things like the game not having a memorable villain. Well, it really wasn't meant to. It's a battle against the inevitable, there is no Kekfa, Sephiroth or Seymour to kill children or burn down your home in a way to make you hate them. Much of the conflict in XIII is the characters battling themselves. It's a different styled narrative and understandably some people aren't going to approve of the change, but does that really mean it's poorly made?
I'll leave those thoughts there for now. As for game length, you're basically grasping at straws here to make this game out to be as terrible as you can. The game is 45 hours for a straight playthrough. That is pretty much identical to both the length of XII and X (both superb games too, by the way). If you do the hunts after beating the game, you can easily have an 80 hour game on your hands.
About the battle system. It is also designed around a very different philosophy compared to previous FFs. Instead of planning out skills to use, XIII is very reaction based as the dynamic of the battle constantly shifts, and you need to compensate for that by changing your approach in response. A turtle is about to stomp, oh shit! You have less than a second to switch back to your Sentinels. While regular battles aren't as intense as the boss battles (game had amazing boss battles, by the way), and combat in the beginning is more basic (as FFs always are made) -- it still presents you with interesting situations while being fluid enough to not get annoying. It does falter at some points primarily because of a few instances of poor pacing, but the system itself is a blast to play with. Not to mention the game looks absolutely stunning at any given point. And I'd personally say the music has outdone FFX's, but that's an issue of personal taste.
Still, if you didn't like it, that's fine. I hate a lot of games too, and some games I hate are actually pretty well made. Sometimes you have to step back and think about how a game was actually designed, and what it was trying to achieve. I'm open to negative opinions, but don't let the strong feelings you have for the FF franchise cloud your judgement. Because that only produces the worst kinds of discussion.
On January 19 2011 06:25 Draconicfire wrote: It wouldn't be a Final Fantasy without grinding for something.
I don't mind grinding a bit for something but in my eyes getting the ultimate weapons is something that should happen before the game is over. In every other FF you can get them somewhere from midgame to slightly before the end. While possible to get them before the end of the game it is highly unlikely and in my opinion getting them was probably the hardest part of the game which is silly as beating the end boss or the hardest marks should be the end game.
On January 21 2011 07:14 Hynda wrote: What? Why? Why make a sequel to a game that bad, hell even the reviewers over here wrecked it. Just make a new one, and make it good instead. I hated FFXIII with a passion for its lack luster story... infact lack luster everything. There are about 2 good scens in the entire game (This being the "Shooting kids ain't one of them" and Snow/boomerangkids ending arc, and this comes from someone that loved FFX. Yea, I rather watch the "Do our best" Scene on an infinite loop than play FFXIII again.
I know it's a quick cash in, but really everyone at least over here seems to hate FFXIII, why not just make FF popular game -2 instead?
Quality mainstream game reviewers disappeared a long time ago. It's kind of foolish to go by anything they say.
And who said everyone hated XIII? You mean the internet? Because the internet hated X-2, the internet hated XII, and yeah, the internet hates XIII.
Funny how they are such popular games in reality though. I'm glad Square doesn't give a shit about message boards, as they rightfully shouldn't.
Ofcourse someone liked it, but I havn't met a single person in real life, or read a single really properly positive review of it even in the established magazines over here nor have I ventured to anything on teh intrawebs where the majority was in favour of this abomination. I am ofcourse helped by the fact that I played it myself and I just can not for the life of me see the appeal. The story is horrible. The main character is so damn inconsistent in her behaviour that she is about as belivable as a sock puppet, and the game itself is ridiculously short for a final fantasy game (and that shows oh that shows) The story ends when you reach the place with the hunts, after that point there isn't a single piece of relevant story.
All the characters that could have been intresting and gets completly tossed aside. Hell some of them go and presumably die off screen aswell as one of them comming back as Zombie only to be instantly killed again meaning that entire chapter was completly flippin' pointless. Trust me I tried seeing the good parts of this game but they are so few and far apart that the drag that is between them just ruins the few good moments.
And people go "Oh atleast the battle system was ok". It really wasn't, it was good for a Final Fantasy battle system, but hell they should have learned by now. Other games have rushed so far ahead of the FF-system that it's starting to become a standing joke. ToS a game released in 2004 (that's 6 and half years ago!) is so damn superior to the FFXIII one that it's not even funny.
What about the story is actually horrible? FF games don't try to have terribly deep stories, rather they execute a compelling narrative that sends an easy to understand yet strong message. I know that arguing about story quality is hard to do, but I really don't see how you could even come close to calling XIII horrible. It's one of the better ones in the franchise, probably only second to X's. The premise is imaginative, and the characters are colorful and serve a purpose.
Lightning behaves inconsistently because of something called character development. In the beginning of the game she is full of guilt for what has become of her sister, and she takes that guilt out on those around her -- blaming people like Snow. She is like this until the moment she is abandoning Hope and her Eidolon appears. She protects him and they fight alongside each other, and this is where she almost becomes the big sister figure to Hope that she never was able to be to Serah. She guides Hope along in this way in the next segment of the game.
Now, I could keep going. I could write explanations like that for each character. But I'm not trying to make the case that these characters are insanely deep or something pretentious like that. XIII has a story about the strength of the human spirit, with emotionally engaging cutscenes that advance each character's plight (with the climax being at the Eidolon segments). Throughout the story, the characters are confused and in despair, but eventually each changes in a way that pushes them all the way to the final encounter. This is where we learn that the Fal'Cie's have limited power even though they are demi-gods, where as humans have infinite potential, and the Fal'Cies use them as tools as a result. It's corny, as all FFs are, and sometimes comes on a bit strong -- but overall it's a beautiful tale.
I think people get caught up on things like the game not having a memorable villain. Well, it really wasn't meant to. It's a battle against the inevitable, there is no Kekfa, Sephiroth or Seymour to kill children or burn down your home in a way to make you hate them. Much of the conflict in XIII is the characters battling themselves. It's a different styled narrative and understandably some people aren't going to approve of the change, but does that really mean it's poorly made?
I'll leave those thoughts there for now. As for game length, you're basically grasping at straws here to make this game out to be as terrible as you can. The game is 45 hours for a straight playthrough. That is pretty much identical to both the length of XII and X (both superb games too, by the way). If you do the hunts after beating the game, you can easily have an 80 hour game on your hands.
About the battle system. It is also designed around a very different philosophy compared to previous FFs. Instead of planning out skills to use, XIII is very reaction based as the dynamic of the battle constantly shifts, and you need to compensate for that by changing your approach in response. A turtle is about to stomp, oh shit! You have less than a second to switch back to your Sentinels. While regular battles aren't as intense as the boss battles (game had amazing boss battles, by the way), and combat in the beginning is more basic (as FFs always are made) -- it still presents you with interesting situations while being fluid enough to not get annoying. It does falter at some points primarily because of a few instances of poor pacing, but the system itself is a blast to play with. Not to mention the game looks absolutely stunning at any given point. And I'd personally say the music has outdone FFX's, but that's an issue of personal taste.
Still, if you didn't like it, that's fine. I hate a lot of games too, and some games I hate are actually pretty well made. Sometimes you have to step back and think about how a game was actually designed, and what it was trying to achieve. I'm open to negative opinions, but don't let the strong feelings you have for the FF franchise cloud your judgement. Because that only produces the worst kinds of discussion.
I dont have a problem with the storyline as much as I just hated how the characters acted at times. They rarely took a logical approach to anything and they often acted unrealistically overemotional. Especially when their eidolons appeared with maybe the exception being Sazh who actually had a somewhat valid reason to freak out.
I mean, the only the character I could see that acted a bit over the top of was Hope -- but even then that really only reminded of me oh how irrational/stupid children can be. I understand everyone who hates him, but I guess they got the child mentality right then didn't they? =p
Other than that, their lives are on a time limit and they have no clue where to go, so they are going to act on their instinctive emotions. Snow is delusional and wants to be heroic, Lightning feels guilty and wants to take it out on whatever is in her way, Fang only wants to protect Vanille, Vanille simply doesn't want to hurt anyone else, and Sazh is a failed father. Once again, I'm not saying it's anything deep here, and the game is melodramatic as FFs so often are, but I felt it was pretty emotional and well executed.
Hopefully XIII-2 is just fan service so people won't get their hopes up this time =D
The cutscenes and characters were a bit too cheesy really, esp that girl dno what she was called again. The story was filled with drama and was weird overall, not much fun / cool stuff like the other FF's.
And the combat, while it has alot of potential, was pretty boring. Only thing you have to do on some of the 'harder' mobs is buff yourself, debuff enemy, and then just use the auto ability thing. So the only thing you basicly need to do is to switch paradigms once in a while. They should give more control to the player like all the other FF's and not like FF 12 and 13 where 95% goes automaticly, if you set it up well. Just give the player more control, would make the combat more dynamic aswell as it's you who is making the decision, not the computer. That being said, it does have alot of room for improvement and the stagger mechanic could make up for a very fun and unique system.
As for being linear, it's not bad per se, but they went over the top with it. There is almost nothing to explore except in chapter 11, which is the most fun part in the game imo. The rest of the chapters is almost literaly straight lines you have to go through, with some little detours left and right but nothing fancy. But, when I enter a dungeon I want to explore and find hidden items and other things. That is what I missed most about the leveldesign.
And one other thing was that all the weapons were just sidegrades, even maxed most weapons had very similair stats, except for the bonus. It's just weird that weapons you find later in the game are generally worse because they aren't upgraded and the bonus is not worth upgrading them for, so you play pretty much most of the game with the same weapon.
I generally liked the game though, just that it could've been alot better.
Previous FFs were more disguised versions of linearity anyways. You'd have a world map early on but of course places would be sealed off or too powerful for you to explore. That element was really for people who wanted to go out of their way to over power their characters and seeks ultimate items. Understandably, some people may not like that XIII does not have a town to fool around with, chocbos to raise, or a secret mansion to explore -- but overall, ditching those elements almost makes the game feel more contemporary. Those aspects of older games are almost just cute little nods to the JRPG genre of the past. Not to say towns and exploration can't be done in a modern RPG (XII did it very well), but Square clearly had a style of game in mind with the narrative they chose with XIII. It was bold, and definitely a love or hate it design.
It's easy to understand where fans would feel alienated by XII and XIII, but they are excellent games in their own right.
Oh I just pleasantly surprised myself. Full trailer of XIII-2.
- Some quicktime finishers for boss fights, apparently - Snow's crew seems to be much more involved in this game, but where's Snow? - Soundtrack sounds great, very Masahi Hamauzu like (he did some stuff in FFX, you'll probably hear the similarities) - Lightning is playable, eventually - No Vanille in a g-string, perhaps her and Fang aren't coming back =[ - Combat looks very similar, some new mechanics of engagement though - Some odd platform segments [MINI GAMES!] - Radar indicates noticeably more complex paths
Seems like a lot of 2 person party play, how will they make that interesting?
I've always thought that Final Fantasy XIII didn't get a fair shake. Admittedly, it was an overwhelmingly linear journey—player agency wasn't topmost among the priorities incorporated into its development. But it was an extraordinarily intentional game; nothing about it ever felt accidental or unplanned. It did a few things, but it did them exceedingly well: excellent combat, well-produced cut scenes, a surprisingly mature narrative, and quality voice-acting. But all of that deliberateness—of which I was a fan—came at the expense of a certain amount of freedom that many fans expect from the series. XIII-2 is looking to change much of that.
The Final Fantasy XIII-2 E3 demo gave the impression of a game that is a much looser experience than its predecessor. The environments were larger and more meandering, the gameplay systems more varied, and the character models and plot elements especially flamboyant (and often obscure). It's clear that the developers are prepared to emphasize gameplay this time around, even if it comes at the expense of consistent world-building and narrative plausibility. This isn't necessarily a bad thing—but those expecting a direct continuation of XIII might find the sequel jarring.
The demo was set in a sprawling complex identified as the Bresha Ruins. It was raining, and large droplets of water periodically splashed on the screen. The soundtrack was familiar, but very vocal-heavy; at one point it slipped into rap. I controlled Noel, a young man dressed in a blue garb that was very suggestive of Fang's costume in the previous title. In tow was Serah, Lightning's younger sister, and—surprise!—a moogle.
Aside from being a throw-back to the franchise's older days, this moogle appears to serve multiple functions, For one, he (or she—it's terribly hard to tell) can transform into Serah's weapon, either a bow or sword. Outside of combat, pressing the gamepad's left trigger will make him to perform a scan of the area, occasionally revealing hidden treasure orbs. He's sort of goofy; it would be hard to imagine a comparable character alongside the high-drama of the the last installment. But there's something charming about having him tag along. Like many of the new elements I saw in this demo, I struggled to see how the moogle would fit into the title's larger framework.
The Ruins were populated with non-playable-characters, something we didn't see too much of in Final Fantasy XIII. Now you can talk to many of them by using the confirmation button. No more strangers yammering-off whenever you walk in front of them. It had more in common with the way the series has handled NPCs in the past. They were still fully voiced, but their dialogue could be scrolled, and would even change depending on how many times they were engaged. The alleyways, plazas and staircases—full of people wandering and going about their business—reminded me of the cities of Final Fantasy XII. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a return to a more traditional, hub-like structure in XIII-2, with shops and side missions.
The story is quite confusing, and despite my being a seasoned (and enthusiastic) player of XIII, threw me for a loop.
Square Enix is being tight-lipped about the title's narrative. The story is quite confusing, and despite my being a seasoned (and enthusiastic) player of XIII, threw me for a loop. Apparently, the game is set in an alternate reality situated sometime after the events of the first title. Lightning is missing. Or simply doesn't exist. It was difficult to get a straight answer. At any rate, Serah is the only person who believes that Lightning is still out there somewhere, and sets off to discover her older sister's condition and whereabouts. There was a lot of dialogue about time traveling, and alternate dimensions, leading me to believe that the plot will incorporate some form of cross-dimensional adventuring.
Combat plays out much the same as did in the previous game: there are paradigms, auto-battle, and a three-character party. But this time, the action is broken up by quick-time-events called "Live Triggers", the conditions for which appeared to be random. Of major interest is the inclusion of monster-type allies in battle. In the course of the demo, I linked up with a flan, a behemoth and some sort of rock-based beast that had particular combat specialties. Switching paradigms would automatically reassign the appropriate monster ally to my party; a defensive paradigm might feature the rock monster as a sentinel, for example, or a ravager-intensive paradigm would bring in the flan. According to Square Enix, these monsters can be permanently recruited by collecting crystals at the end of battles and will experience some form of level-up as the game progresses.
Final Fantasy XIII-2 Has Transforming Moogles, Recruitable Monsters and RapCombat also received an overhaul. The demo was a lot more generous in dolling out preemptive attacks, thanks to yet another moogle-involved subsystem referred to as "Mog Clock." Whenever Noel entered within the radius of an enemy or group of enemies (who had a tendency to spawn out of the ground, rather than be visible far into the distance), a color-coded count-down timer appeared at the bottom of the UI. Engage the enemy while the timer is still green, and you'll receive a preemptive attack and all the bonuses therein. If the timer is yellow, you'll enter battle with neither any special advantages nor penalties. And a red timer, as you could probably guess, is bad news.
There's more. Puzzles, actually. Entering into a "Temporal Rift" (whatever that is) toward the end of the demo brought Noel and co. into a abstract space, with a tile floor plotted down the center. The tiles formed a puzzle: each time Noel stepped on one, it would disappear. The challenge consisted of having to collect tokens arranged at intervals along the tiles, all the while making it from point A to point Z without backtracking. The puzzle wasn't particularly difficult or riveting, but it was an inoffensive way to break up the action. It was yet another way in which the game felt like a grab-bag of ideas and systems.
My 25 minutes with Final Fantasy XIII-2 ended in an unexpected way. It gave me a choice. A big choice. Would I attempt to attack big ol' colossus head-on or take the scenic route and try lowering its defenses via some ancient machinery? The game was proud of this decision-point moment: the prompt expanded to fill the entire screen. Fun demo, but I couldn't help but worry—is this title attempting to do too much at once?
It may be nice that they are more paths to run around in but that means the surrounding level has to be more impressive and actually have content. It's no good having a big level with a million offshoot paths if it feels like it's just empty space.
My problem with ffx-2 was that the story was told and concluded in ffx, so there was no reason for a sequel. I didn't know what the hell was going on in ff13, so maybe a sequel would actually help. If gameplay hasn't improved, though, I'm not so sure if I care.
I seriously dislike the direction it's taking story wise, seems like they're trying to push another overly romantic story like they did with x-2. With that said, the game play still seems solid and the new stuff with less linearity all sounds like a really good combo and the story, hopefully even with romance, has plenty of room to be better than 13. I'll play it either way because I'm an FF fan, but I actually think I'll like this sequel and not finish it in 12 hours.
On January 21 2011 03:29 Obsidian wrote: Combat was still fun, and one of the best they've yet done. The plot wasn't exactly bad either, so I don't understand the hatred for the game.
The internet raged over FF12 as well, which is a brilliant game too. It's just a tradition that people get pissed about every new FF not being like the one they played before.
Agreed but FF13 is somewhat understandable since it lacked towns and was really linear for the most part (FF10 was linear too but it at least had the ability to visit old towns, play mini games, look for hidden loot, etc).
One reason they ditched towns wasn't because they wanted to but because they lacked the funds/time apparently (yeah it is easier and lazier just to ditch them >.>).
Good news for FF13-2 (for whoever hasn't heard already).
1. Towns!
2. Basically they took the feedback from FF13 reception and will make the game less linear and feature multiple dialogue choices and NPCs. Multiple dialogue choices won't affect the ending or anything (they're just there to to give different responses, maybe different conversations, etc.).
3. Also multiple endings too (hmm I wonder how this will go? ).
4. Possibly new game+.
5. Hopefully Vanille will come back and/is playable >.>. (She will make an appearance according to her VA but no word on whether she is playable or what role she will play).
January 31, 2012 release date for NA / February 3 for PAL.
Also this is unconfirmed by the registered a domain name for FFXII-3 or something like that (so possibly a second sequel making it a trilogy if the game does well I assume? Though to be fair it doesn't mean much since they have registered website names up to FF20 or something already so yeah).
For people who disliked FF13, you should definitely be on the look out for the sequel since they said they listened to all the feedback from FF13 and are taking that in consideration with development for FF13-2.
I am so.... well, not mad, but just... bleh. The story line seems so out of line... Serah is the only one from the last game, as well as Snow's crew, so where the hell is Snow.... I did read that review saying that it could be some alternate reality though, so hopefully all of my woes will be solved when I actually play the game. Hoping to see Snow, Hope, Lightning, and Sazh have an important role though.... Obviously not the two pulse girls since they're crystals... meh.
Seriously, life is too short to play mini games and do side-quests. I hate the large contingent of people that wanna make RPGs into single player MMOs. That's so boring.
The eidolon part wasn't paced right in FFXIII as it felt like it dragged on and on but the basic design choice that you only get to experience what's important is pretty great. FFXIII was boring for another reason: it wasn't challenging. It only started getting tough when the game opened up in the second half where you're expected to do side-quests and grind your life out.
Another ridiculous part is the sprinkled enemies on the path. Why would you put filler enemies between where I am and where I need to be? That's just being a dick and making your game longer than it deserves to be.
I think the FF series needs to overcome a severe flaw in its RPG formua. What I mean is that they can't control the level of challenge in the game very well due to the nature of RPGs. They can't predict how strong you're gonna be at a certain point. They can't predict if you have the ability to even do the proper counter to a boss. They need an innovation like Regenerative Health was in the FPS realm.
As a complete experience I think MGS4 was better designed than FFXIII. In MGS4 there's always an interesting twist to what you have to do in any given level. It never takes too long to go from point A to point B and the level of challenge is very well controlled. If FFXIII managed to have more interesting combat mechanics, got rid of or reduced the amount of unchallenging and non-essential fights and stuck to its guns instead of becoming a different game halfway through... I think FFXIII could have been considered a timeless classic the same way MGS4 is considered as such.
It's funny that MGS4 is even more linear than FFXIII yet people never mention it as a particular problem. Aside from the allusions to the extremely long cutscenes, which I am a big fan of.
(In reply to holdthephone's thoughts about the AI/character type switching during fights, I agree that dynamism of it welcome but it sucks that it is largely stuck obeying the typical DPS/TANK/HEAL paradigm. It's also kind of trial and error to find out just how much DPS you can afford to dish out. It's not really a skill, you just have to re-try the boss until you can predict his moves in advance. Those flaws are pretty unfortunate.)
I couldn't have cared less of FF13 story, somehow struggled through the whole game. Don't see why they have to make a sequel for it. Final Fantasys have a scary history with sequels as well, looking at you GirlBandX-2.
Anyway couple impressions from that trailer.
- Snows crew, fuck them couldn't care less go away please. - Combat gameplay looks pretty much the same meh, hard to say based on that trailer though. Could be better for all I know. - Lightning turned to a knight and I dig female knights. Can't tell from trailer how big role she really has though, about only slightly interesting character from FF13.
Why can't they just sit down, take the time, and make a really good game and story for once?
Yes final fantasy is about fighting and lvl'ing up and such, but what made you glued to the screen for many hours is the story, the main plot, the characters, the personal development and of course some good old fashion romance!
On September 15 2011 17:52 Fyodor wrote: They need an innovation like Regenerative Health was in the FPS realm. .)
I don't presume to speak for everyone but generally I find Regenerative Health to be completely detrimental to the FPS genre as a whole. It completely kills my immersion with the game because you know...you should be DEAD.
On September 15 2011 20:18 Pr0d1gy2k5 wrote: auto battle auto battle auto battle auto battle auto battle auto battle auto battle auto battle auto battle auto battle
rinse and repeat...im yet to finish this game, and im at the last chapter too, just so boring and linear -.-
edit: not looking forward to XIII-2 at all, versus though, take all my money :D
>.> well arent you silly for not setting the default to abilities and not auto battle.
>.> auto battle is a choice no one is forcing the player to use it.
BTW CHECK OUT NEW TRAILER SNOW IS REVEALED AND HE LOOKS LIKE A LION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(It's best to read it from the link since the bold parts are the question, the non-bold are the answers. I'm too lazy to do that with the quote >.>).
tl;dr is there's now towns, mini games, more player interaction, refined battle system (it's the same battle system from FF13 but they said they improved it), and exploration options. Though I warn you there is something you may not like "Quick Time Events". (We'll see how used this is though and if there are alternatives).
If there is a game that was as eagerly anticipated and then as roundly criticized as Final Fantasy XIII, it's hard to call it to mind. The game took years to develop in what was, the team has admitted, an extremely troubled process -- both design ideas and technological hiccups resulted in a game that was far from what it could have or should have been.
It's surprising that producer Yoshinori Kitase and director Motomu Toriyama -- the same pair behind the original game -- are as contrite as they are about it, simply because it's unusual for Square Enix to take such an attitude publicly. It is clear, however, that the pair want to win back the series' fans, Moreover, it's also clear they're making an effort to address the game's issues not only with words but with actions, in the form of Final Fantasy XIII-2, a direct sequel to the original, which is set to ship in January 2012 in North America.
In the following interview, the two discuss how they have tried to satisfy the complaints of FFXIII players, and answer rumors that have persisted since the release of the original game.
When you gave your GDC presentation about XIII, around when the game came out, you showed a lot of metrics from focus testing. The biggest question in my mind is: how much of that feedback went into XIII-2?
Motomu Toriyama: We actually set out with a concept for XIII-2. Our ultimate goal is rectifying every single point in Final Fantasy XIII that has been criticized by the users. The main criticisms, I suppose, were: one, it was too story-driven and therefore was quite linear, and, two, that there weren't that many towns and cities to explore, and also that there was no matching interaction between the player and the gameplay.
We actually took those criticisms very seriously, and you'll notice that we tackled them completely and thoroughly. This new game is more player-driven, as opposed to story-driven, so that you can explore different locations and fields to get information and explore towns and other types of locations, as well. So we are very determined to rectify all of the problems, and we think we have.
Even if some elements carry over, Final Fantasy typically introduces new gameplay design for each game in the series. That's good because it things keep evolving, but it doesn't give you a chance to refine stuff before moving on, generally. Does this game give you more of a chance to actually refine the ideas that you introduced with XIII?
Yoshinori Kitase: As you know, XIII introduced a completely new battle system. Because it was so new, we wanted to give each player time to get used to it, and to get the hang of it. Before, with XIII, we just wanted the stages to be quite long, where you have to go quite carefully and slowly and which would look like very lengthy tutorials, which a lot of people didn't like at all.
Because this is the sequel to XIII, we took the basic concept of the Paradigm Shift, for example. The basic idea is the same; but we actually refined it and added new elements to it to make it even better.
So, as you said, the refining process is something we've enjoyed this time around. This time we didn't have to make the game from scratch, so we just have to pursue more product quality and add some extra depth to the game. We feel that we have achieved a very high-quality game.
I remember an interview came out around the time the game was released in Japan saying that there was a volume of content created for the original XIIIthat was more than could be used in the game. Was that the genesis of where this project came from? Did you end up using any of the content as you moved forward?
YK: I think this idea was derived from one comment made by one of our staff, and I think it has been quite widely misunderstood or misinterpreted. It is true in any game, in the process of making it, that obviously you have to come up with lots of different ideas, and obviously you can't materialize every single one of them. You have to try them out, and eventually you're left with the best ones for use. It's only that because there are lots of ideas and content that we could have included in XIIIwhere we didn't; but we didn't actually recycle any of them for XIII-2. It's certainly not that XIII-2 came from the idea of how to make any use of the rejects; that's not how it happened.
XIII-2consists of two parts. One part is the elements and parts that we created from scratch, and the other part is that we took the basic materials from XIII, like the characters, universe, and locations; but every single aspect has been revised or has had new some elements added into it. For example, characters are now presenting completely different, with new costumes, and when it comes to the field map, we now put the element of seasons into it. So it's either completely brand new or the elements from XIII but all differently revised or reworked.
One thing you talked about in your GDC presentation that I thought was interesting is that, in the past of the series, a lot of people could offer ideas into Final Fantasy and they could be incorporated. But, as development got more complex, that couldn't happen as much. Is that something that you've been trying to move back towards? I know it led to a lot of the interesting concepts -- things that people remember very much about the series. I talked to Tokita-san as well, and he had a similar opinion that it would be great if you could incorporate more of the staff's ideas in a collaborative development style.
MT: It's not just as simple as making a game in an old-fashioned way; it's more than that. But what we did do with XIII-2 is that we completely separated the concept phase and actual development phase, and all sorts of ideas that we discussed during the first phase have been taken into XIII-2. One of the criticisms that we received for XIII was that there weren't enough mini-games, for example, so we implemented more mini-games. One of the concepts behind Final Fantasy, and one of the priorities behind XIII-2 is that it's a bit of a melting pot; you can enjoy all sorts of different types of gameplay in one game. That kind of concept is back in action with XIII-2
One of the things that I found really, really interesting is that, in the Game Developer magazine postmortem for XIII, there's a sense that, until the demo with the Japanese Advent Children Blu-ray was released, there was no vertical slice of the game -- no way to get the team to understand what they were making. From a production standpoint, how have you addressed that, moving forward?
MT: At the beginning of development, we set out to, as we said before, look at all of the problems and criticisms we received about the gameplay of XIII. Also, as the development process of XIII was criticized, we wanted to tackle that issue, as well. So we did introduce a vertical slice; the playable version you've just seen at E3 was the first vertical slice version that we've created, so that vertical slice issue has been tackled.
So you're changing the way the team's process works as well? Addressing audience complaints is one side of it, but the other side of it is actually changing the process of the development team to be more effective.
MT: Yes, we have changed a lot of things in terms of the process, and details will be disclosed at GDC next year, maybe. (laughs)
On September 15 2011 18:47 Vaelone wrote: I couldn't have cared less of FF13 story, somehow struggled through the whole game. Don't see why they have to make a sequel for it. Final Fantasys have a scary history with sequels as well, looking at you GirlBandX-2.
Well generally it's much cheaper to make a sequel than a total new game.
Things they can get away with a sequel:
1. Reusing assets. Huge deal since it saves a lot of time/money.
2. Same story (it's easier to improve/extend a story they thought of instead of thinking an entirely new story/new universe).
Those are two major things which speeds up development and which is why FF13-2 is coming out so fast (only about two years since FF13 as opposed to 5+ years between FF10 and FF12 or FF12 and FF13 for example).
Also FFX-2 arguably had the most fun gameplay (well maybe after FF13). It's active time battle (like FF6, 7, 8, 9) + job system from FF3, 5, tactics except... you can change jobs in battle!!!111.
Sure the story was much more light heart, had jpop, had some unusual music (unusual for the series) but hey the game takes place after they saved the world so it can be justified in terms of why it's so light heart.
Plus the minigames, etc are all fun (though Blitzball kind of sucks because it's just a "coaching" game where you just stat grind your players. You don't actually get to play).
FFX-2 one of those games where as long as you don't take the story too seriously or don't expect too much from the story you'll have a lot of fun with (though honestly I thought the story was decent/good.).
Only complaints is that how nearly impossible it is to get 100% without using a walkthrough (you need 100% to get the good ending) but on the plus side there is new game plus where you keep everything except levels (equipment matters more than levels so that's not too bad).
I thought FF13 was a decent game. Sure it's linear, but most of the good FFs (4, 6, 7, 9) were at their heart very linear as well. Not the greatest game, not the worst. My biggest issue was the pacing of both story/game and the voice acting/script.
Personally I hope they fix those. I couldn't care less about linearity as.. 1) I prefer linear to open world sandbox games and 2) Most games are just as linear as FF13 was.
My biggest gripe with FF13 was these dramatic moments that weren't very dramatic. Characters would start yelling for basically no reason, and making situations that aren't even remotely dramatic makes the scene STINK of cheese. I know FF series have a lot of cheesiness in general because of the sometimes poor voice acting but it just seemed so forced. At least FFX seemed much better in that regard.
On September 16 2011 12:11 oxxo wrote: I thought FF13 was a decent game. Sure it's linear, but most of the good FFs (4, 6, 7, 9) were at their heart very linear as well. Not the greatest game, not the worst. My biggest issue was the pacing of both story/game and the voice acting/script.
Personally I hope they fix those. I couldn't care less about linearity as.. 1) I prefer linear to open world sandbox games and 2) Most games are just as linear as FF13 was.
I disagree with this. JRPGs are inherently somewhat linear, but FF13 was literally walking in a straight line with no possible deviance or world map or anything of the sort for quite a long time.
No one went in expecting fallout, but so much of 13 was just a movie where I had to keep pressing x, really frustrating.
It wouldn't have been too bad if the combat had been really engaging, but even the story took itself way too seriously the entire time with no aspects of the old games still there to play around with.
Hearing that they're changing the formula from 13 gives me some hope for the game, but 13 left me with such a bad taste it'll be the first FF that I don't auto buy in a decade.
On January 19 2011 05:56 QuixoticO wrote: If they listen to the feedback the players gave they could actually turn this into a really epic game. Tho I'm not going to get my hopes up like before.
Yeah but they haven't done that in years. Just look at all the feedback ff14 got in beta and how they didn't listen to one piece of it.
On January 19 2011 05:56 QuixoticO wrote: If they listen to the feedback the players gave they could actually turn this into a really epic game. Tho I'm not going to get my hopes up like before.
Yeah but they haven't done that in years. Just look at all the feedback ff14 got in beta and how they didn't listen to one piece of it.
Fortunately they're listening now. FFXIV is in limited free to play now and they're cranking out updates like crazy (well once every 2-3 months but they're huge updates).
I'm sure one year from now (September 2012) FFXIV will be playable and will be an enjoyable MMORPG >.> (while they have done a lot of work, they still need much more).
Also same with FFXI.
Anyway to bring you more news for FF13-2 (Noticeable parts in bold):
1. You can now change party leaders in battle. Additionally when the party leader dies, it is no longer game over. (Note that in the E3 FF13-2 demo this was not the case. However they changed it which is good now).
You still control only one member at a time though (same battle system).
2. Also new is Chrono Trigger + FF13 (you can travel through different time periods and change outcomes of future). This also factors in the multiple endings thing.
3. FF13 + Pokemon - You can catch monsters. However there is one huge downside to this (probably the only major disappointing thing that was revealed so far):
Your party will consist of only Noel, Serah, and a Monster for basically the entire game.
Now we don't know if there are any other characters but it seems that way sadly so this will be just a two character FF13.
However if that has disappointed you, I say you should wait until the game comes out to see if there is any way to get extra characters in your team (who knows, maybe they'll add some post game or new game + option that allows you to use extra characters).
Lightning will only be playable in small amounts.
Temporary guest party members may join but we don't know who they are and whether they'll be controllable or not.
4. Gold Saucer (they're adding something similar) to FF13.
5. (Not new info but for people who haven't heard yet) Finally again they've added towns, NPCs, etc. Basically it's like an open RPG now instead of "linear" in FF13.
Release Dates: December 15, 2011 for JP /January 31, 2012 for NA / February 3, 2012 for PAL
I know am disappointed in lack of **Vanille as a party member as everyone else right now (because "not liking" Vanille is "impossible" for me. Since it's impossible for me, I assume it's impossible period >.>) but still I'll definitely get the game on release day.
**Honestly I am seriously surprise at the amount of people who dislike Vanille. Oh well. Vanille (and her English VA "Georgia van Cuylenburg" are my favorites <3.
So yeah even though it's Serah + Noel for the entire game, I'll get the game since I like RPGs, I like FF, and I like the direction they're going for the most part (still disappointed at the character thing but oh well).
But again even if you're not excited for it, I say you should still keep the game in mind and check out reviews and message boards after the game is released to see whether the game is worth a purchase or not.
On September 15 2011 17:52 Fyodor wrote: They need an innovation like Regenerative Health was in the FPS realm. .)
I don't presume to speak for everyone but generally I find Regenerative Health to be completely detrimental to the FPS genre as a whole. It completely kills my immersion with the game because you know...you should be DEAD.
Hopefully they don't sacrifice XIII's stunning presentation that made the linearity feel, well, less linear. I don't think any FF had environments and locales as amazing as XIII's, and that's what really carried the game through at times.
What I disliked with FFXIII can be summed up in battle system and having a 2 person party for a large portion of the game. I simply didn't like the real time system where I have to queue actions as it goes along. Leading to me losing attack/spell time, the min/maxer in me cringed at it and it is still the biggest problem I have with the game.
They are keeping the battle system it seems. Thus I have to consider if I would like the game in spite of its combat system...
Gives much more insight into the story. Back to being excited for this game..
Yeah this just got me super hyped. I loved XIII so I already planned on purchasing 2, but I think I have more faith in this sequel, even if just for the story, than I did after x-2.
Vanille spotted (as a flash back it seems) near the end of the trailer! Woot.
Anyway yeah I'm excited too (though cautiously. Depends how SE treats my favorite character ever [Vanille] in the sequel >.>.)
Also if anyone did not know, here's preorder bonus for FFXIII-2 (note while it does say NA, seems to be US only :\).
(Preorder bonus is free DLC. Rest of the content will be available as DLC.)
As for the Final Fantasy episode i - Click for translated version. So don't worry if you can't get the best buy preorder bonus thing, it's already up on the internet fully translated.
Though I'm sure it'll be explained in the game too (the trailer basically explained what happened to Lightning which was from the episode i novella for example.)
Yeah I'm excited. FF13 is my *favorite FF actually (because of Vanille) so nice.
*While FF13 is my favorite, I wouldn't rate it higher (in terms of review scores for example) than certain other FFs To elaborate: + Show Spoiler +
(I'd say the gamespot score of FF13 getting an 8.5 is right. Basically the problem was it gets really grindy in end [farming turtles anyone?] + the monster encounters near the end are really tedious. Also it could use a bit more customization. Finally Vanille's Eidolon doesn't have Curaga for some reason despite all the others having it. Also Eidolons are really impractical [most of the time you're using it just for farming turtles or the poison trick. Other than that, it's probably faster just to battle without Eidolons since you'll deal more damage usually and you'd save TP.)
As for the whole game being linear (with no towns or NPCs) and basically being a tunnel simulator for most of the game - that's an understandable negative too.
(Also I have played every FF except 2, 3, and 14. Yep I played FF11 too [MMORPG]. So yes it's possible for someone who played the previous FFs to like FF13 even though I do know there are flaws and shortcomings but yeah - FF13 is my favorite thanks to Vanille)
For those who haven't completed FF13 yet, complete it for the sequel and because "this" is the final boss battle music in FF13 + Show Spoiler +
Yep you know you want to hear that in game. Though have fun with 3-5 minute monster battles in Chapter 12+ >.> (To make battles less tedious - get Sprint Shoes for all 3 of your characters once you reach Gran Pulse. You can get it by doing Mission 7 over and over until you get a crown. Upgrade it to star level [max]. Then dismantle it for Hermes Sandals and upgrade that to max then transmute/upgrade it to Sprint Shoes. Also get at least level 2 weapons. Sprint Shoes grants auto haste [for 1 minute] but most battles will last roughly that time or less thanks to the haste effect.)
I really can't tell whether you're being sarcastic about Vanille or not, personally I found her super hard to like and I thought that was the majoritys opinion as well. However I didn't really like any of FF13 characters par Lightning who was a level above the others at least.
Based on trailer the partys going to be split for most of the game again, Lightning seemed to be going solo a lot which seems pretty fitting for her. Hope shes actually a playable character in the traditional sense as my eyes didn't catch her in any of the normal battle scenes.
Also I swear spotted some mini-games which is a very welcome addition, one of the more enjoyable things in FF's but they have gone almost extinct in the more recent games.
Anyway still not very hyped and based on what I've seen so far won't be getting it on launch at least.
On October 14 2011 10:11 Vaelone wrote: I really can't tell whether you're being sarcastic about Vanille or not, personally I found her super hard to like and I thought that was the majoritys opinion as well. However I didn't really like any of FF13 characters par Lightning who was a level above the others at least.
Based on trailer the partys going to be split for most of the game again, Lightning seemed to be going solo a lot which seems pretty fitting for her. Hope shes actually a playable character in the traditional sense as my eyes didn't catch her in any of the normal battle scenes.
Also I swear spotted some mini-games which is a very welcome addition, one of the more enjoyable things in FF's but they have gone almost extinct in the more recent games.
Anyway still not very hyped and based on what I've seen so far won't be getting it on launch at least.
Not sarcastic at all.
Also according to a poll on another forum I visit, a third picked Vanille as their favorite in terms of personality (of course it seems everyone who didn't pick her as a favorite didn't like her :\.)
I'm fine with her voice (which I know many disliked.) [Her VA is Australian but sometimes she does say things with an American accent]
Finally I do like her personality. She may seem childish (wanting to run away, being easy going, etc) but she has a simple reason + Show Spoiler +
It's stated (I think it's from her narration during scene with her and Serah? Forgot exactly) she'd rather turn to a Cie'th than destroy Cocoon (her focus). So basically don't do anything and wait for the end.
It makes sense to me - in universe the options seemed hopeless [two options - kill or "get killed"], she tried choosing the latter but in the end they all took some third option and managed to save Cocoon and complete their Focus.
Also if it helps makes sense - Penelo was my favorite in FF12 (well out of the FF12 cast that is) and her personality is sort of similar (perky, etc.)
As for why she's my favorite of all time? Well one reason is that her character really got to me in the game + Show Spoiler +
It started with her narration. She seemed sad overall) + her scenes with her crying, + <insert more sad scenes featuring Vanille>. Made me want to hug her <3. (Yes I know some may feel the opposite )
Is it just me, or is the voice acting for FF XIII and XIII-2 horrible, but awesome at the same time? And with Lighting going solo ---> beast mode! Hope she's a playable character.
I remember being pumped for a lead female badass, but to me lightning turned to just be a cold annoying bitch(I've played only about 5 hours in and couldn't play anymore).
I'm looking forward to XIII-2 where they return to a traditional male+heroine lead.
My personal fav was ffX, the love story and ending just make me zoicuzlk;cjz;lkcjasdl;a. Can't wait for there HD remakes..
Edit: I just realized SnowxSerah so there goes my love story =_=
@CaffeineFree-_-: Lightning gets much better later on in the story (she becomes a lot nicer to others and starts to the view the others as family/friends later)
On October 14 2011 10:11 Vaelone wrote: I really can't tell whether you're being sarcastic about Vanille or not, personally I found her super hard to like and I thought that was the majoritys opinion as well. However I didn't really like any of FF13 characters par Lightning who was a level above the others at least.
Based on trailer the partys going to be split for most of the game again, Lightning seemed to be going solo a lot which seems pretty fitting for her. Hope shes actually a playable character in the traditional sense as my eyes didn't catch her in any of the normal battle scenes.
Also I swear spotted some mini-games which is a very welcome addition, one of the more enjoyable things in FF's but they have gone almost extinct in the more recent games.
Anyway still not very hyped and based on what I've seen so far won't be getting it on launch at least.
My previous post about Vanille (didn't quote whole thing due to length)
I just like to add a few things why I love Vanille, why she is my *favorite character of all time, and why I kind of don't understand the "hate" for her (sure dislike but people just outright hate her which makes me sad ).
*Edit - Adding onto previous post that is (that is she really got to me with her story, narration, etc).
First lets talk about her voice since this one I can sort of understand - Some may not like her voice.
Now as for her character and personality - She just made the most sense to me: [Warning - Much text below. Actually this is basically the same thing as my previous post but longer with some extra details] + Show Spoiler +
1. Like I mentioned earlier - She's chooses to become a Cie'th rather than destroy cocoon. *In universe, it makes sense because the options seem hopeless [kill or "be killed".]
*I say in universe because we know how every Final Fantasy (or in general most games where you play a good guy) end - you save the world somehow despite all the odds. The characters do not know this however[Well at least Vanille didn't know.]
So her whole seeming childish thing or wanting to run away is justified IMO - She doesn't really think everything is all "sugar and rainbows" but she knows the reality of the situation [grim, seemingly hopeless, etc].
Additionally she doesn't really want to bring others into her despair (for example - She lied to Fang and said she was the one who became Ragnarok and destroyed/killed all those people. She had good and thoughtful intentions IMO.)
An important thing to note is that Fang had a white brand which meant she couldn't turn into a Cie'th (Fang and Vanille knows this. Fang mentioned it to Lightning the first time they met.)
So it's not like Vanille didn't care about Fang either, she knew Fang would be all right even if they didn't complete their Focus (Destroy Cocoon).
She also knew Fang would be willing to do anything to save her (Fang says this exactly) which is why she lied to her (lied about forgotten their Focus. Fang forgot but Vanille remembered their Focus was to destroy Cocoon).
So since (this is the summary/condensed version): a. Vanille doesn't want to destroy Cocoon (she doesn't want to harm anyone) b. She feels there are only two options - wait to become a Cie'th or destroy Cocoon. She doesn't want to hurt anyone, so she picks the latter. Again in universe it makes sense [they don't know they'll end up saving the world and saving themselves at the same time, so yeah.] c. She knows Fang will be alright even if they don't complete their Focus. Fang can't become a Cie'th.
So taking into the account of the above - Vanille hides her despair with her cheerfulness and waits to become a Cie'th (rather than destroy Cocoon).
2. Additionally she is shown to be kind and thoughtful (her hugging Hope when Hope lost her mother, her reassuring Snow about Serah really wanting to save Cocoon, etc).
She also isn't one to actually run away. She blames herself and is ready to face punishment for it "despite" it not actually being her fault at all.
She had a good intention but her actions (or her just being passive and waiting for the end) is what caused the events of FF13.
[Long background stuff about FF13's world and story and stuff]
They live in a crappy world where they're slaves to the fal'Cie [them being able to brand anyone a l'Cie any time to do their bidding (if they don't, someone else gets it and the person gets turn into a Cie'th. If they do they have to kill others[Pulse fal'Cie Focus] then may be called to do "another" Focus later on.] so it's really a lose-lose situation.
Vanille doesn't know that if she doesn't complete her Focus, someone else will be branded to do it instead.
So Serah ends up being branded a "Pulse l'cie" to replace her.
There are two types of l'Cie - Pulse and Sanctum l'cie. The former is bad (because Gran Pulse is viewed as bad by Cocoon) but the latter is less bad since it's origin of Cocoon rather than Gran Pulse. Cocoon inhabitants generally hunt down Pulse l'cie but not Sanctum l'cie.
In either case, even if they complete their Focus (turn to Crystal), they can be turned back into non crystal form and be given a new Focus (what happened to Vanille and Fang).
Dajh became a Sanctum l'cie which is different he was branded due to Fang attempting to attack a Cocoon fal'Cie. Dajh wandered by alone [Sazh wasn't paying attention >.>] and the fal'Cie branded Dajh a Sanctum l'cie with the ability to detect Pulse l'cie [All the other characters were branded "Pulse l'cie])
[//////End Long background stuff]
So anyway it wasn't really her fault any of this really happen (it all comes back to they live in a crappy world) but her intentions overall were noble and selfless.
(Before anyone says they now view Vanille as a Purity Sue [variant of a Mary Sue] - take note everyone acts the opposite towards her in game (Everyone is kind of "harsh" with Vanille in story [sadly IRL too >.<] which doesn't fit with the TVT definition of Purity Sue).
Well anyway that's why I find her the most likable (her personality + the story made me really care about her) and that's why she's my favorite character. In general, I love everything about her (IMO, I thought her VA did a great job).
Though if you disliked the way Vanille sounded, don't blame her VA (Georgia van Cuylenburg) as she was told to act that way (sounding perky, cheery, etc.) + they also purposely choose an Australian VA for Vanille (sort of a joke on Gran Pulse and Australia being "down under") (Georgia van Cuylenburg is nice actually )
On October 15 2011 06:33 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: Any idea what the booklet you guy from preordering from bb looks like? Or the alt costume? Can't find any -_-
The story can be read here. As for what it looks like - In the Japanese version, there isn't really any art either (just a plain pic of Lightning on the front and nothing else I think). English version may different.
As for the alt costume and other stuff, they'll be later available as DLC. If you want to collect stuff, I'd suggest best buy since the other two will be available as DLC. Though if you don't care about the book, the link has the entire story translated from the Japanese version (it's really short but yeah all of it is translated).
If you're unsure, I guess safe is just to preorder from Best Buy and get the other two preorder bonuses through DLC (if you have internet connection for your PS3 or 360).
The DLC is paid though not sure how much (maybe $1-2 for alt costume)?
You proved your love Goldfish but I still don't like her!
I've usually had a fairly neutral opinion about the perky characters in FF's before Vanille (Yuffie, Selphie, Rikku, Penelo) but I just can't like Vanille, might be that those four kind a just were there and didn't prove to be a huge annoyance but they just had to make Vanille the narrator and so on.
Though like I said I didn't really like any of the characters other than Lightning whom I might actually remember in a few years.
On October 14 2011 13:44 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: Edit: I just realized SnowxSerah so there goes my love story =_=
I always thought that romance seemed so weird and out of place. Wakka x Lulu anyone...
Oh it's just text? Bleh idc about that then. I read in silicon that the asian version will have jap VA with eng subs...tempted to do it but I'd have to wait for shipping etcc for it...
On October 15 2011 09:15 Vaelone wrote: You proved your love Goldfish but I still don't like her!
I've usually had a fairly neutral opinion about the perky characters in FF's before Vanille (Yuffie, Selphie, Rikku, Penelo) but I just can't like Vanille, might be that those four kind a just were there and didn't prove to be a huge annoyance but they just had to make Vanille the narrator and so on.
Though like I said I didn't really like any of the characters other than Lightning whom I might actually remember in a few years.
On October 15 2011 09:19 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: I read in silicon that the asian version will have jap VA with eng subs...tempted to do it but I'd have to wait for shipping etcc for it...
That sounds awesome thanks for pointing it out, I always roll with the original voice track whenever possible but I've never had this option with FF's.
Definitely have to go with import version it if/when I do end up buying it eventually. Think I found the article you mentioned as well.
Incredibly pumped for this! New soundtrack, new world, enhanced battle system, more characters!
As a long time FF fan, I try to empathize with the people who hated on FF13. Hard to dislike this though, Square Enix has really adjusted based on the negative criticisms. Not only that, but aesthetically, 13 looked AMAZING and this already looks even better.
Pretty sure my February 2012 calendar is only going to include FF13-2, peace out real world.
Re: the preorder bonuses, (http://release.square-enix.com/na/2011/10/03_01.html) Gamestop or Amazon? I'd prob need a pic of the Serah skin to make this decision, otherwise special playable characters ftw.
On October 15 2011 10:10 PanoRaMa wrote: Incredibly pumped for this! New soundtrack, new world, enhanced battle system, more characters!
As a long time FF fan, I try to empathize with the people who hated on FF13. Hard to dislike this though, Square Enix has really adjusted based on the negative criticisms. Not only that, but aesthetically, 13 looked AMAZING and this already looks even better.
Pretty sure my February 2012 calendar is only going to include FF13-2, peace out real world.
Re: the preorder bonuses, (http://release.square-enix.com/na/2011/10/03_01.html) Gamestop or Amazon? I'd prob need a pic of the Serah skin to make this decision, otherwise special playable characters ftw.
I think this is going to be a disappointing game. Don't get me wrong, i love XIII, and i think this is going to a good game, but it will still leave some unsatisfying after you finish it, at least that's what i feel after watching the trailers
I was pretty hyped for this game up until the most recent trailer. Now I have mixed feelings since i feel the plot looks a lot more complex than i thought it was going to be. I really hope that they make it work out in the end.
edit: but on the plus side, the world and battle system look attractive. Those still have me somewhat excited.
On October 14 2011 13:44 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: I remember being pumped for a lead female badass, but to me lightning turned to just be a cold annoying bitch(I've played only about 5 hours in and couldn't play anymore).
I'm looking forward to XIII-2 where they return to a traditional male+heroine lead.
My personal fav was ffX, the love story and ending just make me zoicuzlk;cjz;lkcjasdl;a. Can't wait for there HD remakes..
Edit: I just realized SnowxSerah so there goes my love story =_=
Snow and Serah was probably the worst in-game love story I have ever seen.
On October 14 2011 13:44 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: I remember being pumped for a lead female badass, but to me lightning turned to just be a cold annoying bitch(I've played only about 5 hours in and couldn't play anymore).
I'm looking forward to XIII-2 where they return to a traditional male+heroine lead.
My personal fav was ffX, the love story and ending just make me zoicuzlk;cjz;lkcjasdl;a. Can't wait for there HD remakes..
Edit: I just realized SnowxSerah so there goes my love story =_=
Snow and Serah was probably the worst in-game love story I have ever seen.
lol what story? their relationship was never focused on.
a bad example of an actual love story would be the liara+shepherd realtionship in Mass Effect.
On October 16 2011 09:45 blahman3344 wrote: I was pretty hyped for this game up until the most recent trailer. Now I have mixed feelings since i feel the plot looks a lot more complex than i thought it was going to be. I really hope that they make it work out in the end.
edit: but on the plus side, the world and battle system look attractive. Those still have me somewhat excited.
You mean the time travel thing? I am worried about that. It may be overly complicated (oh noes! We changed something in the past and now the future is really screwed!) but it may be something simple like Chrono Trigger (well before Chrono Cross made it all complicated).
On October 14 2011 13:44 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: I remember being pumped for a lead female badass, but to me lightning turned to just be a cold annoying bitch(I've played only about 5 hours in and couldn't play anymore).
I'm looking forward to XIII-2 where they return to a traditional male+heroine lead.
My personal fav was ffX, the love story and ending just make me zoicuzlk;cjz;lkcjasdl;a. Can't wait for there HD remakes..
Edit: I just realized SnowxSerah so there goes my love story =_=
Snow and Serah was probably the worst in-game love story I have ever seen.
lol what story? their relationship was never focused on.
a bad example of an actual love story would be the liara+shepherd realtionship in Mass Effect.
It was focused on (though depends on what you mean exactly). Remember in FF13 when:
(This isn't explained in game) but Snow and Serah met in University. I guess Snow wowed Serah with well maybe his theme music or something (okay probably with him being a nice guy overall and maybe funny . It isn't really explained how but Serah fell for Snow).
Anyway there were a few flashbacks showing Snow and Serah. The most prominent one is probably when Serah reveals she's a l'Cie to Snow. Snow believes her and comforts her (well after Serah ran away and Snow found her that is).
Lightning (Serah's sister) however did not believe Serah and thought she was making it up as an excuse for Snow and Serah to be together (Lightning didn't approve). Snow did however believe Serah and he always remained with her.
The reason Lightning did not believe her was that a "Pulse l'Cie" has never existed for centuries on Cocoon (Serah was the first one branded and caused the ruckus in Cocoon with the purge to Gran Pulse, etc).
(So overall Snow was the only one who believed and comforted Serah [well before the news reports made it obvious she really was a l'Cie later on to Lightning])
As for why did Serah become a l'Cie? This was due to Vanille and Fang being reawakened (they were brought by someone and hidden somewhere in Cocoon) to complete their Focus. When Vanille refused to destroy Cocoon/complete her Focus, one of the fal'Cie (Anima I think) branded Serah (who happened to close enough) so Serah could do it instead.
Finally as for Serah turning into a Crystal early in the game, it's revealed that l'Cie can change their Focus (though it takes a strong will + hope or <insert power of friendship and love speech here>).
Sure it wasn't focused on much but Snow did a lot in game to show his love for Serah and I think that's good enough to show them as a good couple.
Speaking of that, if anyone has any story related questions regarding FF13, feel free to ask. Most of the time stuff isn't really explained (you had to read the datalogs and sometimes stuff outside the games to figure everything out). Story is also basically covered on the Final Fantasy Wikia (wikia has ads if no adblock) but if you're wondering about something specifically feel free to also ask (since I read nearly everything already).
FFXIII had a pretty nice story line. The downside was the linear gameplay. If they can keep the story up and improve the gameplay, this game may have a lot of potential.
On October 18 2011 10:00 Kznn wrote: FFXIII had a pretty nice story line. The downside was the linear gameplay. If they can keep the story up and improve the gameplay, this game may have a lot of potential.
I rather let the game be and stop making sequel, it'll just ruin the storyline of the original.
On October 18 2011 10:00 Kznn wrote: FFXIII had a pretty nice story line. The downside was the linear gameplay. If they can keep the story up and improve the gameplay, this game may have a lot of potential.
I rather let the game be and stop making sequel, it'll just ruin the storyline of the original.
I disagree because if they make a sequel right, it could be really great (Shadow Hearts 1 and Shadow Hearts 2 for example).
Another thing is I felt FFXIII sort of ended in a "more questions than answers" type of deal. Plus I need more Vanille.
I played the "media showcase" for about 20 minutes, was pretty impressed with the overall improvements. The world feels populated instead of vastly isolating and empty, the levels are vastly more open and drastically less linear, combat is the same just with more added and more to do.
Looking forward to it, especially the more complex storyline.
On October 18 2011 10:00 Kznn wrote: FFXIII had a pretty nice story line. The downside was the linear gameplay. If they can keep the story up and improve the gameplay, this game may have a lot of potential.
I rather let the game be and stop making sequel, it'll just ruin the storyline of the original.
I disagree because if they make a sequel right, it could be really great (Shadow Hearts 1 and Shadow Hearts 2 for example).
Another thing is I felt FFXIII sort of ended in a "more questions than answers" type of deal. Plus I need more Vanille.
*SPOILERS FFXIII*
FFXIII ending was one of those "live happily ever after ending" yet they decided to revive it back. Those type of sequel never makes any sense and it kills the memories of the original game when we think back about them. I'll just play this game with the mindset of a new game anyway.
The more I see of the game the more I get hyped for it. I hope its much better than 13 even though 13 was a decent experience despite all the problems.
On October 18 2011 10:00 Kznn wrote: FFXIII had a pretty nice story line. The downside was the linear gameplay. If they can keep the story up and improve the gameplay, this game may have a lot of potential.
I rather let the game be and stop making sequel, it'll just ruin the storyline of the original.
I disagree because if they make a sequel right, it could be really great (Shadow Hearts 1 and Shadow Hearts 2 for example).
Another thing is I felt FFXIII sort of ended in a "more questions than answers" type of deal. Plus I need more Vanille.
<3 Vanille. She was perfect. Best thing since... Quistis??? Nah... nevermind... just best thing ever.
On October 28 2011 04:51 hysterial wrote: I loved FFX, hated FFX-2, hated FFXIII, which means I will either hate FFXIII-2 even more, or like it. Logics 101.
I'm curious, what did you dislike about FF13?
The answer may or may not tell whether you'll like FF13-2 or not.
Another thing is SE has shown (well recently ever since FF13/14) to listen to feedback (well at least to reviews and probably JP boards).
Also what about FFX-2?
IMO FFX-2 had the best battle system of the series (well just a bit better than FF13. FF13 can get really fun in some of the optional boss battles though the sad part is those are few in the game).
It sucks. I remember when I used to be pumped about FF releases, digging through the foreign screenshots and articles, waiting for it to deploy in US. Each release seems to be chipping away at my excitement for this series. Perhaps myself (as well as a lot of the community) are trying to hold the games to too high of a standard. Not sure if I'm gonna buy this one yet, but the stuff I'm seeing gives me hope I suppose
As for FF13 itself, I liked the story (could have done with a bit less of the whole 'running away' though), but hated the game play itself.
On October 28 2011 10:25 Choo wrote: It sucks. I remember when I used to be pumped about FF releases, digging through the foreign screenshots and articles, waiting for it to deploy in US. Each release seems to be chipping away at my excitement for this series. Perhaps myself (as well as a lot of the community) are trying to hold the games to too high of a standard. Not sure if I'm gonna buy this one yet, but the stuff I'm seeing gives me hope I suppose
As for FF13 itself, I liked the story (could have done with a bit less of the whole 'running away' though), but hated the game play itself.
hohoho, being pumped for about FF? that's what happening to me now with FFType-0
Another thing is SE has shown (well recently ever since FF13/14) to listen to feedback (well at least to reviews and probably JP boards).
Alright well, Square Enix has been doing crazy things to the franchise ever since X-2 and if we go by internet feedback alone then X-2, XII, and XIII are some of the worst games in the history of gaming.
But in reality Square is more concerned with feedback from the market, in which case they know they are profiting strongly. The "hardcore" fanbase is at times important to listen to, but FF fans that are more prominent on gaming boards are those in their 20s, making a racket about how everything sucks this generation and how FF6 is the greatest thing on earth and something about how the ghost train made them cry when they were little.
Most arguments against post-FFX games have little do with their own individual merits, instead fans just keep comparing them to old games like it's supposed to mean something. FF12 was an abomination because it "played itself." Wut? FF13 is just "one long hallway." Wut? They ignore the fact that these games had new intentions for their own design. You want to race chocbos, play cards, and visit towns in FFXIII but how is that relevant to the game itself? Who wrote a book on what the next FF has to be? They use the name to grab your attention, but for the 1000th time -- they have no relation to each other, and SE has increased the disparity between the titles to the point where the only semblance between them is something called a Phoenix Down.
The new games certainly have flaws, but rarely are the flaws mentioned on here have anything to do with poor design, rather someone just upset about an RPG being linear or some nonsense. I especially love the one about XIII not having a villain as good as Kefka or Sephiroth -- well no shit, XIII arguably doesn't even have a villain to begin with. Who almost destroys the world at the end? One of your own damn party members. God forbid Square tries for something original these days.
Another thing is SE has shown (well recently ever since FF13/14) to listen to feedback (well at least to reviews and probably JP boards).
Alright well, Square Enix has been doing crazy things to the franchise ever since X-2 and if we go by internet feedback alone then X-2, XII, and XIII are some of the worst games in the history of gaming.
But in reality Square is more concerned with feedback from the market, in which case they know they are profiting strongly. The "hardcore" fanbase is at times important to listen to, but FF fans that are more prominent on gaming boards are those in their 20s, making a racket about how everything sucks this generation and how FF6 is the greatest thing on earth and something about how the ghost train made them cry when they were little.
Most arguments against post-FFX games have little do with their own individual merits, instead fans just keep comparing them to old games like it's supposed to mean something. FF12 was an abomination because it "played itself." Wut? FF13 is just "one long hallway." Wut? They ignore the fact that these games had new intentions for their own design. You want to race chocbos, play cards, and visit towns in FFXIII but how is that relevant to the game itself? Who wrote a book on what the next FF has to be? They use the name to grab your attention, but for the 1000th time -- they have no relation to each other, and SE has increased the disparity between the titles to the point where the only semblance between them is something called a Phoenix Down.
The new games certainly have flaws, but rarely are the flaws mentioned on here have anything to do with poor design, rather someone just upset about an RPG being linear or some nonsense. I especially love the one about XIII not having a villain as good as Kefka or Sephiroth -- well no shit, XIII arguably doesn't even have a villain to begin with. Who almost destroys the world at the end? One of your own damn party members. God forbid Square tries for something original these days.
tl;dr lol @ internet feedback.
I do agree with you though I meant they're more listening to constructive feedback rather than the whole <x game sucks, don't do it> thing.
That's one thing that bothers me is when people dislike a game they don't provide points where SE can improve (like the game "as is" could be much better if...). While SE doesn't go around reading every forum (well they do for some Japanese boards), they do read reviews and gaming news sites (which usually shows fan reaction occasionally).
Hence SE going crazy with the whole "FF13 is too linear, change it" and adding multiple options for dialogue and multiple endings for FF13-2.
Hopefully people are satisfied but IMO I think people should have focused more on how to make the gameplay better.
FF13 - Too linear and no towns. Interesting thing is one of the most well received FF games (well a spin off) is Final Fantasy Tactics which in a sense had no towns (they do have towns but it was just a menu. No exploration or anything. You just bought stuff and listen to the occasional small bit of dialogue from the bartender). However the gameplay made up for everything in Tactics (and of course Tactics not advertised as a main FF game with towns helps too).
A lot of people also said they didn't like the gameplay too much however the most prominent criticism of FF13 is probably the linearity (+no towns). IMO towns aren't really a big deal. What matters more is the battle system.
What people should have complained about (reviewers I'm looking at you since SE reads reviews) is the gameplay. They did listen in one regard and they're unlocking Crystarium from the start which is good (I did dislike that).
My favorite battle system is probably FFX-2 thanks to the job changing system. So naturally FF13 using the same things mean good right?
However throughout most of the game I felt the role changing thing (Paradigm system) to feel a bit forced and lacking (just DD for the most part then switch to heal, then rinse and repeat). This was the case for most of the non-optional battles in the game and because the game limited you to 3 roles at the very beginning.
Now they already said that the entire Crystarium is unlocked from the start in FF13-2, there's no worries for that.
So another negative for FF13 is the lack of customization. In RPGs people like to build up their character and maybe tweak things, do certain builds, etc. FF13 kind of lacked that (they did have the synthesis system with accessories but that wasn't much). Also paradigm roles were limited to 6 (it'd be nice if you could have two pages having 12 total).
One thing I hope they change in 13-2 is add more customization options.
It'd be neat for example if you could spend CP and level up abilities (for example upgrading "Mediguard" to heal more HP).
Additionally it'd be nice if you had an extra slot to mix and match abilities like FF5 and FFTactics for example (say you have two slots where you can take an ability from any role and apply it to another. Example - a Sentinel with the Attack command from Commander and the Fire Spell from Ravager).
Eidolons could use more customization too (Something like FFX where you could spend points to add abilities and tweak their stats would be neat). Also Hecatoncheir lacks Curaga. Hmm I think that's a bug and if they do bring back summons, fix that "bug" >.> (supposedly it might be a balancing thing but it's weird since all other 5 Eidolons have Curaga).
Finally IMO they should have made regular monsters weaker but made *bosses harder. In FF13 at times I felt regular battles were just as "hard" as boss battles (battles became tedious since you just wanted to see the story or progress through the game).
*The battle system can be really fun against tough bosses where you need to use all 6 roles.
For FF13-2 they said they may be adding an easy mode than you can switch on and off whenever (similar to how you can change the difficulty anytime in Elder Scrolls for example). This sounds good if they do implement it (turn on easy mode to farm and take out regular monsters. Turn on normal mode against bosses).
FF13 actually does have an easy mode too (as DLC for Japan but no where else) which just made it easier to stagger enemies and drop rates increased. They should release it outside of Japan though for those who may find the battles too tedious in FF13.
So in short if FF13 had a better battle system with more customization options (also less tedious regular encounters), I think more people would have liked the game more. People can overlook everything else if the battle system is good (FF Tactics having no explorable towns but well received for example). FF13 really had a lot of potential.
Hopefully FF13-2 makes it much better. I'm not too fond of the whole monster catching thing (I was hoping for more customization for my main characters rather than customization by random monsters in your party :\).
But yeah you're right about the newer FF games - FF12 was actually one of the most well received games in the FF franchise (9+/10 reviews for lots of site, even 40/40 from Famitsu [though take note Famitsu are kind of SE fanboys]) but yet a lot of people seem to dislike it.
Feedback at least based on what can be done to improve the existing game isn't bad but welcomed - Most of the major complaints of FF12 were fixed in in the international JP version (splitting the license board to 16 based on a job for more customziation. Treasure chests respawning by moving one screen. And a fast forward button that speeds up everything).
FF13 was also much better received in Japan than in the West (though it was still polarizing but not as much).
tl;dr - I agree that SE experimenting and trying new stuff (FF12 and FF13) is good and can potentially unveil something great. SE listening to "constructive feedback" to make existing games better is also good. Also when people complain, at least mention what could be done to make the game enjoyable (like improve battle system in FF13 rather than just simply saying FF13 sucks). SE may take into account of feedback for their sequels (FF13) or rereleases (FF12 International + Zodiac System) to address complaints that they can reasonably change (well again from reading reviews and gaming new sites).
This post is already long but:
On October 28 2011 10:25 Choo wrote: It sucks. I remember when I used to be pumped about FF releases, digging through the foreign screenshots and articles, waiting for it to deploy in US.
I agree (well I'm still excited but I know others haven't been as much) and it wasn't too far back either.
Remember E3 2008 and how "Microsoft won the console wars" just because FF13 was going to be released on 360 >.>. Yep you heard it right. The fate of console wars decided on one game only - Final Fantasy XIII. There was a huge internet debate, huge flamewars, etc over FF13 being multiplatform. People said Microsoft won the console wars over a *multiplatform game >.>.
*That is Sony is nothing now that Final Fantasy is also on Xbox!
Yep that is like hype to the max just for one game (FF13).
See this:
I do miss that (the huge hype for FF games). Hopefully SE "redeems" themselves to the masses with FF13-2, Type-0, FF Versus 13, and FF14 2.0 and that same hype starts for FF15 (in which case - Inb4 SE announces FF15 on the PC as well as the Xbox 720 and PS4 and a huge flamewar on the internet is started with people saying consoles are dying because FF15 is on the PC now!)
"Professional" reviews were all over the place, and IMO they are no more well footed than some random message board poster's opinions. Some well known sites didn't even finish the game they hated it so much, while others gave it AAA scores. Some praised the narrative, others praised the combat, it was all over the place and is why I never read reviews anymore -- no one knows how to look at a game and tell me if it does what it does well.
FFXIII's draw backs, the actual ones (of which I agree with you on points):
1. Battle system had a very nice design to it, it just took a while to heat up and there were a few moments of monotonous pacing in the beginning segments. Later on it was rather brilliant.
2. Story was great but a couple characters (Snow and Hope) dived too deeply into melodrama to remain believable.
3. Crystarium had little point to it since you couldn't do anything with it beyond move it forward. Should of been different or completely removed to further streamline the experience.
4. Hammy dialogue, but mostly this ties into #2. All FFs are written in a corny fashion and in a way it works well, but in all of them it eventually comes on a little too strongly at points. Except FF12 --that has an amazing english script.
Other than that I have only resoundingly positive things to say about XIII. It's unfortunate Square has to try to fix things that aren't broken, but as long as they are confident in making XIII-2 more "open" and know how to do it well, I'll remain optimistic. I have a huge respect for this developer since they really have the opportunity to milk us for all were worth, yet they still try to do new things with the amazing level of polish we have come to expect from them.
If people want to actually talk about deeply flawed Square products, we can talk about FF14.
On November 01 2011 10:36 holdthephone wrote: "Professional" reviews were all over the place, and IMO they are no more well footed than some random message board poster's opinions. Some well known sites didn't even finish the game they hated it so much, while others gave it AAA scores. Some praised the narrative, others praised the combat, it was all over the place and is why I never read reviews anymore -- no one knows how to look at a game and tell me if it does what it does well.
FFXIII's draw backs, the actual ones (of which I agree with you on points):
1. Battle system had a very nice design to it, it just took a while to heat up and there were a few moments of monotonous pacing in the beginning segments. Later on it was rather brilliant.
2. Story was great but a couple characters (Snow and Hope) dived too deeply into melodrama to remain believable.
3. Crystarium had little point to it since you couldn't do anything with it beyond move it forward. Should of been different or completely removed to further streamline the experience.
4. Hammy dialogue, but mostly this ties into #2. All FFs are written in a corny fashion and in a way it works well, but in all of them it eventually comes on a little too strongly at points. Except FF12 --that has an amazing english script.
Other than that I have only resoundingly positive things to say about XIII. It's unfortunate Square has to try to fix things that aren't broken, but as long as they are confident in making XIII-2 more "open" and know how to do it well, I'll remain optimistic. I have a huge respect for this developer since they really have the opportunity to milk us for all were worth, yet they still try to do new things with the amazing level of polish we have come to expect from them.
If people want to actually talk about deeply flawed Square products, we can talk about FF14.
The actual FF14 haven't released yet, it's next year dude. Square apparently is remaking the whole game (new engine, new storyline, etc.). FF13 wasn't a bad game, i actually enjoyed it alot. The only draw back is NOT because it doesn't look like another FF, it is its linear gameplay. Literally you're only moving forward the whole game without any option to explore the world (except a little bit on Pulse). I don't really hate the idea of having no towns either, since they are now outcast, of course they're not supposed to be in town. The story is actually one of the best story i have seen in a while, the idea of fighting against fate? awesome. It's just because of other so called "fan of FF" been complaining about FF13 doesn't feel like FFVII, square decided to make another sequel to save it. God damn i hate these people.
On November 01 2011 10:36 holdthephone wrote: "Professional" reviews were all over the place, and IMO they are no more well footed than some random message board poster's opinions. Some well known sites didn't even finish the game they hated it so much, while others gave it AAA scores. Some praised the narrative, others praised the combat, it was all over the place and is why I never read reviews anymore -- no one knows how to look at a game and tell me if it does what it does well.
FFXIII's draw backs, the actual ones (of which I agree with you on points):
1. Battle system had a very nice design to it, it just took a while to heat up and there were a few moments of monotonous pacing in the beginning segments. Later on it was rather brilliant.
2. Story was great but a couple characters (Snow and Hope) dived too deeply into melodrama to remain believable.
3. Crystarium had little point to it since you couldn't do anything with it beyond move it forward. Should of been different or completely removed to further streamline the experience.
4. Hammy dialogue, but mostly this ties into #2. All FFs are written in a corny fashion and in a way it works well, but in all of them it eventually comes on a little too strongly at points. Except FF12 --that has an amazing english script.
Other than that I have only resoundingly positive things to say about XIII. It's unfortunate Square has to try to fix things that aren't broken, but as long as they are confident in making XIII-2 more "open" and know how to do it well, I'll remain optimistic. I have a huge respect for this developer since they really have the opportunity to milk us for all were worth, yet they still try to do new things with the amazing level of polish we have come to expect from them.
If people want to actually talk about deeply flawed Square products, we can talk about FF14.
The actual FF14 haven't released yet, it's next year dude. Square apparently is remaking the whole game (new engine, new storyline, etc.). FF13 wasn't a bad game, i actually enjoyed it alot. The only draw back is NOT because it doesn't look like another FF, it is its linear gameplay. Literally you're only moving forward the whole game without any option to explore the world (except a little bit on Pulse). I don't really hate the idea of having no towns either, since they are now outcast, of course they're not supposed to be in town. The story is actually one of the best story i have seen in a while, the idea of fighting against fate? awesome. It's just because of other so called "fan of FF" been complaining about FF13 doesn't feel like FFVII, square decided to make another sequel to save it. God damn i hate these people.
FFXIV has been out for awhile and it as well dive-bombed spectacularly despite having plenty of things going for it, as in plenty of chances to make it RIGHT and not taking it.
Also an update for the OP Snow is in the game but he's just without his trademark bandana making him MUCH HARDER TO RECOGNIZE he looks VERY different. Hope is in the game with a tie and he's pretty pro now.
On November 01 2011 10:36 holdthephone wrote: "Professional" reviews were all over the place, and IMO they are no more well footed than some random message board poster's opinions. Some well known sites didn't even finish the game they hated it so much, while others gave it AAA scores. Some praised the narrative, others praised the combat, it was all over the place and is why I never read reviews anymore -- no one knows how to look at a game and tell me if it does what it does well.
FFXIII's draw backs, the actual ones (of which I agree with you on points):
1. Battle system had a very nice design to it, it just took a while to heat up and there were a few moments of monotonous pacing in the beginning segments. Later on it was rather brilliant.
2. Story was great but a couple characters (Snow and Hope) dived too deeply into melodrama to remain believable.
3. Crystarium had little point to it since you couldn't do anything with it beyond move it forward. Should of been different or completely removed to further streamline the experience.
4. Hammy dialogue, but mostly this ties into #2. All FFs are written in a corny fashion and in a way it works well, but in all of them it eventually comes on a little too strongly at points. Except FF12 --that has an amazing english script.
Other than that I have only resoundingly positive things to say about XIII. It's unfortunate Square has to try to fix things that aren't broken, but as long as they are confident in making XIII-2 more "open" and know how to do it well, I'll remain optimistic. I have a huge respect for this developer since they really have the opportunity to milk us for all were worth, yet they still try to do new things with the amazing level of polish we have come to expect from them.
If people want to actually talk about deeply flawed Square products, we can talk about FF14.
The actual FF14 haven't released yet, it's next year dude. Square apparently is remaking the whole game (new engine, new storyline, etc.). FF13 wasn't a bad game, i actually enjoyed it alot. The only draw back is NOT because it doesn't look like another FF, it is its linear gameplay. Literally you're only moving forward the whole game without any option to explore the world (except a little bit on Pulse). I don't really hate the idea of having no towns either, since they are now outcast, of course they're not supposed to be in town. The story is actually one of the best story i have seen in a while, the idea of fighting against fate? awesome. It's just because of other so called "fan of FF" been complaining about FF13 doesn't feel like FFVII, square decided to make another sequel to save it. God damn i hate these people.
FFXIV has been out for awhile and it as well dive-bombed spectacularly despite having plenty of things going for it, as in plenty of chances to make it RIGHT and not taking it.
Also an update for the OP Snow is in the game but he's just without his trademark bandana making him MUCH HARDER TO RECOGNIZE he looks VERY different. Hope is in the game with a tie and he's pretty pro now.
I don't know wtf ur on about FF14, but what released last year is not FF14 that was supposed to be out. That's why they remaking it, that's my point, i don't even know what ur trying to argue against here :^
And all of those news are at least 1 month old now
On November 01 2011 10:36 holdthephone wrote: "Professional" reviews were all over the place, and IMO they are no more well footed than some random message board poster's opinions. Some well known sites didn't even finish the game they hated it so much, while others gave it AAA scores. Some praised the narrative, others praised the combat, it was all over the place and is why I never read reviews anymore -- no one knows how to look at a game and tell me if it does what it does well.
FFXIII's draw backs, the actual ones (of which I agree with you on points):
1. Battle system had a very nice design to it, it just took a while to heat up and there were a few moments of monotonous pacing in the beginning segments. Later on it was rather brilliant.
2. Story was great but a couple characters (Snow and Hope) dived too deeply into melodrama to remain believable.
3. Crystarium had little point to it since you couldn't do anything with it beyond move it forward. Should of been different or completely removed to further streamline the experience.
4. Hammy dialogue, but mostly this ties into #2. All FFs are written in a corny fashion and in a way it works well, but in all of them it eventually comes on a little too strongly at points. Except FF12 --that has an amazing english script.
Other than that I have only resoundingly positive things to say about XIII. It's unfortunate Square has to try to fix things that aren't broken, but as long as they are confident in making XIII-2 more "open" and know how to do it well, I'll remain optimistic. I have a huge respect for this developer since they really have the opportunity to milk us for all were worth, yet they still try to do new things with the amazing level of polish we have come to expect from them.
If people want to actually talk about deeply flawed Square products, we can talk about FF14.
The actual FF14 haven't released yet, it's next year dude. Square apparently is remaking the whole game (new engine, new storyline, etc.). FF13 wasn't a bad game, i actually enjoyed it alot. The only draw back is NOT because it doesn't look like another FF, it is its linear gameplay. Literally you're only moving forward the whole game without any option to explore the world (except a little bit on Pulse). I don't really hate the idea of having no towns either, since they are now outcast, of course they're not supposed to be in town. The story is actually one of the best story i have seen in a while, the idea of fighting against fate? awesome. It's just because of other so called "fan of FF" been complaining about FF13 doesn't feel like FFVII, square decided to make another sequel to save it. God damn i hate these people.
FFXIV has been out for awhile and it as well dive-bombed spectacularly despite having plenty of things going for it, as in plenty of chances to make it RIGHT and not taking it.
Also an update for the OP Snow is in the game but he's just without his trademark bandana making him MUCH HARDER TO RECOGNIZE he looks VERY different. Hope is in the game with a tie and he's pretty pro now.
Yes they're working on FFXIV 2.0.
Main points:
1. Tanaka resigned so instead Naoki Yoshida has taken over. The short version is Naoki Yoshida can be trusted (past successes, taking player feedback, working 15-16 hours a day with only 3 hours of sleep, etc).
2. Engine is being rebuilt (one year development already). New trailer in E3 2012. Also the game was free to play for just over a year (it's no longer free to play though).
In a sense FFXIV launched incomplete because they say they're only 50% done with it. It will be done within next year or so (well 2.0 that is). 2.0 will add features such as DirectX 11 support (for PC) and other things to keep everything up to date. UI and everything will be overhauled. Addons (like WoW) will be supported. Areas will be redone completely. Game will be better optimized server and client side for 2.0.
3. They've taken every person they can to work on FFXIV to rebuild it (250+ currently). Apparently they would have taken people from FF13 team if they were free.
4. They want FFXIV to succeed because FFXI was such a good money maker (while it's no WoW, it did have 500k+ subscribers at its peak for a while which is still a lot of money). As long as they maintain a steady amount of subscribers like FFXI for years and years, it will succeed (even if it's no WoW in terms of subscriber count).
So yeah the tl;dr is I'm sure it will be at least good by 2.0. The latest patches have already been good and it's getting better (new job system will be introduced next patch). They still have PS3 release coming after 2.0 is released for promotion.
On November 01 2011 10:36 holdthephone wrote: "Professional" reviews were all over the place, and IMO they are no more well footed than some random message board poster's opinions. Some well known sites didn't even finish the game they hated it so much, while others gave it AAA scores. Some praised the narrative, others praised the combat, it was all over the place and is why I never read reviews anymore -- no one knows how to look at a game and tell me if it does what it does well.
FFXIII's draw backs, the actual ones (of which I agree with you on points):
1. Battle system had a very nice design to it, it just took a while to heat up and there were a few moments of monotonous pacing in the beginning segments. Later on it was rather brilliant.
2. Story was great but a couple characters (Snow and Hope) dived too deeply into melodrama to remain believable.
3. Crystarium had little point to it since you couldn't do anything with it beyond move it forward. Should of been different or completely removed to further streamline the experience.
4. Hammy dialogue, but mostly this ties into #2. All FFs are written in a corny fashion and in a way it works well, but in all of them it eventually comes on a little too strongly at points. Except FF12 --that has an amazing english script.
Other than that I have only resoundingly positive things to say about XIII. It's unfortunate Square has to try to fix things that aren't broken, but as long as they are confident in making XIII-2 more "open" and know how to do it well, I'll remain optimistic. I have a huge respect for this developer since they really have the opportunity to milk us for all were worth, yet they still try to do new things with the amazing level of polish we have come to expect from them.
If people want to actually talk about deeply flawed Square products, we can talk about FF14.
The actual FF14 haven't released yet, it's next year dude. Square apparently is remaking the whole game (new engine, new storyline, etc.). FF13 wasn't a bad game, i actually enjoyed it alot. The only draw back is NOT because it doesn't look like another FF, it is its linear gameplay. Literally you're only moving forward the whole game without any option to explore the world (except a little bit on Pulse). I don't really hate the idea of having no towns either, since they are now outcast, of course they're not supposed to be in town. The story is actually one of the best story i have seen in a while, the idea of fighting against fate? awesome. It's just because of other so called "fan of FF" been complaining about FF13 doesn't feel like FFVII, square decided to make another sequel to save it. God damn i hate these people.
FFXIV has been out for awhile and it as well dive-bombed spectacularly despite having plenty of things going for it, as in plenty of chances to make it RIGHT and not taking it.
Also an update for the OP Snow is in the game but he's just without his trademark bandana making him MUCH HARDER TO RECOGNIZE he looks VERY different. Hope is in the game with a tie and he's pretty pro now.
Yes they're working on FFXIV 2.0.
Main points:
1. Tanaka resigned so instead Naoki Yoshida has taken over. The short version is Naoki Yoshida can be trusted (past successes, taking player feedback, working 15-16 hours a day with only 3 hours of sleep, etc).
2. Engine is being rebuilt (one year development already). New trailer in E3 2012. Also the game was free to play for just over a year (it's no longer free to play though).
In a sense FFXIV launched incomplete because they say they're only 50% done with it. It will be done within next year or so (well 2.0 that is). 2.0 will add features such as DirectX 11 support (for PC) and other things to keep everything up to date. UI and everything will be overhauled. Addons (like WoW) will be supported. Areas will be redone completely. Game will be better optimized server and client side for 2.0.
3. They've taken every person they can to work on FFXIV to rebuild it (250+ currently). Apparently they would have taken people from FF13 team if they were free.
4. They want FFXIV to succeed because FFXI was such a good money maker (while it's no WoW, it did have 500k+ subscribers at its peak for a while which is still a lot of money). As long as they maintain a steady amount of subscribers like FFXI for years and years, it will succeed (even if it's no WoW in terms of subscriber count).
So yeah the tl;dr is I'm sure it will be at least good by 2.0. The latest patches have already been good and it's getting better (new job system will be introduced next patch). They still have PS3 release coming after 2.0 is released for promotion.
i only want square to stop with all the mmorpg after this disaster though, because what makes FF series what it is now is the storyline oriented gameplay not all these multiplayer shit.
IMO it's a good deal if you're interested in the soundtrack. $60 for game, $20 for sound track (OST usually costs around that when first released) + artbook.
Not much new stuff but it did reveal that "summons" may return in some form (assuming they're not talking about monster summons) and the fact that paradigm shifting is instant (there's no animation or pause for it like in FFXIII I assume). I hope there is a way to switch the animation on though because I like options in games >.> (and also if *Vanille is playable, I'd like to see her up close doing her paradigm shift animation like in FFXIII ).
*As for playable characters, they still say you play mostly as Serah and Noel but they haven't 100% confirmed that there will be no other characters.
I am not really buying this FFXIII-2 thing, feels really weird that they actually did a part 2 for this game, the ending to me was quite ok to be honest.
On November 12 2011 15:34 ballasdontcry wrote: oh good, we don't have to watch the damn paradigm animations every time now...
easy mode? really? is linear gameplay not enough to dumb down JRPG's these days?
First the major reason for an easy mode was because many (including several who posted in this thread) said they didn't bother completing FFXIII because it got tedious at the end. Easy mode is that solution (turn it on easy to plow through regular enemies, turn on normal whenever you feel like it).
In fact an optional Easy Mode allows the game to be harder (see the article I linked to in previous post. They said FFXIII-2 will be generally harder than FFXIII. The option of easy mode allows them to make it harder without worrying about players being stuck).
The most fun I've had in FFXIII where the fights like the last titan trial where you had to use all the roles (sentinel is a must) to make it through and if more fights are like that in FFXIII-2, that'd be a good thing IMO.
Also I'm sure there will be trophies/achievements if you defeat a certain boss (like 5 starring in FFXIII) on normal mode though.
You can switch difficulty anytime in FFXIII-2. So if you wanted you can probably grind on easy mode, then turn on normal mode on bosses (so far I've heard there are no real penalties for using easy mode).
Another thing is FFXIII-2 will not be linear (*ironically though people are now complaining the game just throws you into the story with little background stuff on other forums >.>).
*This goes with my previous post (on the previous page) that people are complaining about the wrong things and sometimes aren't being constructive enough with their criticism. (Speaking of that, I am curious if the general gist of the plot[time travel] was built around the non-linear gameplay players wanted.)
Here are scans of someone (who has played a play test version) of FFXIII-2 (describes the beginning part so there will be some spoilers):
Like I said earlier, instead of FFXIII where they sort of took the entire game to sort of establish everything (like the characters goals, etc), in FFXIII-2 you're just thrown into the game immediately with a general idea on what's going on and the goal of your character (keep going through time gates, save the present and future, etc).
I'm sure the story will be explained more thoroughly later on though and they're just doing this to just get you into the game immediately (due to criticism of FFXIII being a long tutorial).
I doubt they modeled this game off the concerns of distraught FF fanboys posting on the internet, especially since it's already releasing in a few months. Obviously they had time to address some issues, but XIII-2 has been a planned project.
Also -- pre-ordered the CE from Best Buy to get that exclusive hardcover Novella book bonus ^_^
I got to pulse twice and had my save taken from me, 1st the PS3 was my brother in laws and he moved out, 2nd my PS3 broke and when it was repaired they wiped it + Show Spoiler +
Fucking asscunt bumbandit dickweeds!
Pretty hyped for this game as all final fantasys, i hope it isnt as fail as the last "sequel" they did, X-2 was so shit..lol, still spent 200 hours maxing out every dress sphere, getting 100% ending then getting the 100% ending from one playthough...lol im so sad :D
wow , that short earlier trailer was complete emo trash , worst trailer ive ever seen in my life for anything
the 7 minute one is much better but i wouldnt watch it if you're gonna buy the game...its like 6 minutes of fmv scenes and dialogue from key points in the game -_-
game seems so heavily drama/emo orientated , its completely unnecessary, like a "modern" version of ff7 (and by modern you know i mean crazily dumbed-down, lacking subtlety)
sarah's tits look so amazing , i would get it for that alone, plus there is an evil loli
vanille is cool but she is basically aeris so idk how you can prefer her over aeris. she is still cool but if they are travelling through time and shit i think they should just ressurect aeris. maybe thats what happens, and everyone freaks out about it which explains all the drama
all FF games are heavily melodramatic. 12 is the only one with well scripted dialogue as opposed to the typical japanese way of developing characters with emotional outbursts. i don't see the hammy dialogue as a flaw, though it's certainly cringe worthy at times -- pretty much the reason why i only enjoy FF games when no one is looking over my shoulder, same with pretty much any anime in existence.
it's just how japan works, and why japanese VAs deliver lines 100x more appropriately.
--
i think vanille is a lot more enjoyable of a character than aeris. she has some semblance of intelligence to her, as opposed to being oblivious to everything.
i kind of expect to be disappointed with XIII-2's story though, which is why i was hoping for just a fun rpg with shameless fan-service like X-2 was. XIII wrapped itself up perfectly, so it's a hard act to follow with a game that centers itself on a character like Sarah =[
On November 15 2011 17:58 holdthephone wrote: I doubt they modeled this game off the concerns of distraught FF fanboys posting on the internet, especially since it's already releasing in a few months. Obviously they had time to address some issues, but XIII-2 has been a planned project.
Also -- pre-ordered the CE from Best Buy to get that exclusive hardcover Novella book bonus ^_^
Unfortunately they sort of have . Whether they overdid it is the question (I mean they even added multiple dialogue selection and used that as a big advertisement >.>.)
They acknowledged they knew about how FFXIII was criticized for being linear + townless which they aim to fix in FFXIII-2.
Hopefully they don't overdo it and I hope the story doesn't suffer.
I mean hopefully SE doesn't assume people don't care about the story (a lot still have no idea what happened in *FFXIII's ending >.>). I know people complain about linearity + lack of towns the most in FFXIII but building on the FFXIII story would be nice too (like elaborate more on the history of FFXIII's world and stuff like that).
Also wow people who like Vanille. Nice to meet you all .
*As for FFXIII's ending here's my + others speculation:
The white l'Cie brand is something that was never really explained. Fang has one (before the game) for example but they never explained how she managed to get it.
White brands no longer progress which means means the person can't be turned a Cie'th (they have unlimited time).
In the end of the game with how all the characters (besides Vanille + Fang) turned to Cie'th then later turning back isn't fully explained.
They said it might have been an illusion but was it? Also how did they all get white brands?
Speculated that with the power of friendship, love, or hope (yeah cheesy stuff >.>) they overcame their Focus and changed it + turned it into a white brand which no longer progresses.
Serah actually changed her Focus and turned to crystal (Serah's Focus was originally turn to Ragnarok as confirmed by Vanille in a flashback but somehow she changed it to gather people to "Save Cocoon" and turned to crystal). So it can be assumed that everyone changed their Focus at the end of game like Serah.
As for Vanille + Fang turning into Ragnarok and saving Cocoon? Well it's speculated that not even the fal'Cie really knew Ragnarok's capabilities. Vanille + Fang turned to Ragnarok thanks to their hope + wish to save Cocoon.
The fal'Cie thought that the only way to turn into Ragnarok is to become enraged but I guess there are alternatives.
So yeah overall there is a lot of speculation going on here. It'd be nice if the stuff were fully elaborated on in the sequel.
Apparently there is this new feature called Historia Crux System. Which is basically time traveling. I find this very interesting concept because it will basically break linear game play. For people who play game like Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross which gave you shit ton of option on what to do, will understand the epic-ness that this can be. I think this feature is more then enough to excite me for the game.
One thing I hate is that ability to recruit monster into battle.....I think this feature is stupid simply because I wont care for them because they arent character. They will not have any plot developement or anything. I think the story was made to focus around Serah and Noel mainly so adding more character will hinder their plot development. So instead of character, we will get monster that will help in battle but will not have any meaning in the story....basically filler character.
They did a similar thing in Tale of Symphony Dawn of the New World and I personally dislike it ALOT. They eventually bring back in old character but you cant recruit them and they are only temporary. I would prefer them add or let you replay the character simply because I think since this is a sequel, it perfect time to farther develop Hope, Snow, Sazh etc etc etc character even more. Yet they are really not doing this....
On November 25 2011 17:47 SheaR619 wrote: Apparently there is this new feature called Historia Crux System. Which is basically time traveling. I find this very interesting concept because it will basically break linear game play. For people who play game like Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross which gave you shit ton of option on what to do, will understand the epic-ness that this can be. I think this feature is more then enough to excite me for the game.
One thing I hate is that ability to recruit monster into battle.....I think this feature is stupid simply because I wont care for them because they arent character. They will not have any plot developement or anything. I think the story was made to focus around Serah and Noel mainly so adding more character will hinder their plot development. So instead of character, we will get monster that will help in battle but will not have any meaning in the story....basically filler character.
They did a similar thing in Tale of Symphony Dawn of the New World and I personally dislike it ALOT. They eventually bring back in old character but you cant recruit them and they are only temporary. I would prefer them add or let you replay the character simply because I think since this is a sequel, it perfect time to farther develop Hope, Snow, Sazh etc etc etc character even more. Yet they are really not doing this....
Well, i think it has to do with how you're only allowed to play two characters for the whole game (only my speculation) and there must be a third player to add more variety to the strategy hence recruiting monster, but yeah i personally don't see a bright future for this system.
On November 30 2011 03:45 HydraLF wrote: Anyone know if FFXIII-2 will have any improvement in graphics? The whole presentation of FFXIII was extremely disappointing.
Really? Among all the varying opinions on the game, nearly everyone stands impressed by the game's productions values. It's very pretty.
On November 30 2011 03:45 HydraLF wrote: Anyone know if FFXIII-2 will have any improvement in graphics? The whole presentation of FFXIII was extremely disappointing.
tell me any game's cutscene that is distinctly has higher quality that THAT
On November 30 2011 03:45 HydraLF wrote: Anyone know if FFXIII-2 will have any improvement in graphics? The whole presentation of FFXIII was extremely disappointing.
Have you seen this cutscene? Sure it could improve but.. damn. FFXIII looked sexy
On November 30 2011 03:45 HydraLF wrote: Anyone know if FFXIII-2 will have any improvement in graphics? The whole presentation of FFXIII was extremely disappointing.
tell me any game's cutscene that is distinctly has higher quality that THAT
Yeah sure the CGI looks great, I mean the graphics actual playable engine is pretty awful.
Maybe I've been spoilt by graphics of PC games. :[
On November 30 2011 03:45 HydraLF wrote: Anyone know if FFXIII-2 will have any improvement in graphics? The whole presentation of FFXIII was extremely disappointing.
On November 30 2011 03:45 HydraLF wrote: Anyone know if FFXIII-2 will have any improvement in graphics? The whole presentation of FFXIII was extremely disappointing.
tell me any game's cutscene that is distinctly has higher quality that THAT
Yeah sure the CGI looks great, I mean the graphics actual playable engine is pretty awful.
Maybe I've been spoilt by graphics of PC games. :[
I have to say it looks promising. They have definetly heard the critique of FFXIII and are doing something about it. Sidegames, sidequests, puzzles, the historia crux(however it is spelled but sounds awesome!), more interaction with NPC's, improved combat system(finally can tell my stupid comrades to single target damage or aera of effect damage), MOG(missed ya bud!) and more.
So they definetly stepped up the approach to the game, now we can just cross our fingers that they execute it right and got an epic story for us.
I have to say it looks promising. They have definetly heard the critique of FFXIII and are doing something about it. Sidegames, sidequests, puzzles, the historia crux(however it is spelled but sounds awesome!), more interaction with NPC's, improved combat system(finally can tell my stupid comrades to single target damage or aera of effect damage), MOG(missed ya bud!) and more.
So they definetly stepped up the approach to the game, now we can just cross our fingers that they execute it right and got an epic story for us.
Really pumped after that video - it seems they really took a lot of time patching what was "wrong" about 13, but not only that, took the best parts and made it even better. REALLY liking the improvements to the paradigm system, which was already so so underrated.
I'm still really iffy about the characters. Serah is great but it's sort of like playing Princess Peach - she's supposed to be the one you're saving because shes so emotional, weak, and frail. Hard to really see her as the main protagonist in a super bad ass RPG. So far it seems like they took many steps forward, but possibly a step backward with the character lineup (which was already a bit weak from the original), but this is all pure speculation until we get to actually play the game so we'll see.
The characters still look kinda gay though. I remember when I was playing 13 and I was running around as...Vanille (?) and I just thought, if my Dad walked in he would wonder what the fuck I was playing.
Like seriously, uber camp. Whatever happened to having cool characters or dicks like Cloud or Squall?
On December 17 2011 21:20 ToT)OjKa( wrote: Actually looks pretty good.
The characters still look kinda gay though. I remember when I was playing 13 and I was running around as...Vanille (?) and I just thought, if my Dad walked in he would wonder what the fuck I was playing.
Like seriously, uber camp. Whatever happened to having cool characters or dicks like Cloud or Squall?
Imo i think snow was manly enough and then there was sazh as well. They just gave more choices on picking who you could be.
have to say, FFXIII was quite disappointing but in some aspect, it kinds of impressed me. I disliked the story quite a bit, I felt it was quite off for a FF game but the battle system was quite refreshing and could just use some minor adjustment to become a really good one.
Gonna convince my fd to buy it and rent it from him to check it out (jp version is already out)
I don't know if I was the only one but I didn't care at all about the linearity. I did care about the universe not being immersive, the characters being stupid, and the dialogues and voice acting being absolutely terrible though; it looks like that didn't get better. It's sad they didn't seem to focus on that for the second one
I have to say it looks promising. They have definetly heard the critique of FFXIII and are doing something about it. Sidegames, sidequests, puzzles, the historia crux(however it is spelled but sounds awesome!), more interaction with NPC's, improved combat system(finally can tell my stupid comrades to single target damage or aera of effect damage), MOG(missed ya bud!) and more.
So they definetly stepped up the approach to the game, now we can just cross our fingers that they execute it right and got an epic story for us.
Really pumped after that video - it seems they really took a lot of time patching what was "wrong" about 13, but not only that, took the best parts and made it even better. REALLY liking the improvements to the paradigm system, which was already so so underrated.
I'm still really iffy about the characters. Serah is great but it's sort of like playing Princess Peach - she's supposed to be the one you're saving because shes so emotional, weak, and frail. Hard to really see her as the main protagonist in a super bad ass RPG. So far it seems like they took many steps forward, but possibly a step backward with the character lineup (which was already a bit weak from the original), but this is all pure speculation until we get to actually play the game so we'll see.
IMO the cast was good (well except everyone being overdramatic and sometimes overreacting).
For me, Vanille was just awesome in general. The cast is one that display a lot more emotions than previous (especially compared to FFXII) but they were still good characters IMO. Vanille is awesome.
On December 17 2011 23:12 MilesTeg wrote: I don't know if I was the only one but I didn't care at all about the linearity. I did care about the universe not being immersive, the characters being stupid, and the dialogues and voice acting being absolutely terrible though; it looks like that didn't get better. It's sad they didn't seem to focus on that for the second one
Besides the overreacting and overdramatic stuff, they all acted normal in that type of situation (they were kind of screwed. The tl;dr version is that while they have superpowers, they had only a limited time before turning into mindless Cie'th. The only known way to save themselves, or prolong their lives, is to complete their Focus which was to destroy Cocoon using Ragnarok's power. None of them really wanted that + none of them known of an alternative).
Now let's talk about Vanille because she is my favorite ever and what she did in game. Vanille chose the best course of action throughout the entire game (even though the narrative + all the other characters try to blame her for everything):
Lets talk about Vanille and why she chose the best options: Her lying + her "running away" was because she only known of two options (complete Focus which is to destroy Cocoon, or wait it out and turn Cie'th; she chose the latter because she didn't want to hurt anyone and because she knew Fang was in no danger of turning to a Cie'th). Lying to Fang was good because Fang did say she'd do anything for Vanille (complete even destroy Cocoon).
For example:
Also Vanille (and the others) didn't know who the villain was (or if there was even a villain at all) until late into the game; she chose what she thought had the best outcome because she knew of no other options. Randomly destroying fal'Cie or resisting the Sanctum would have been dangerous and would have hurt people (the game did show the people who worked for the Sanctum to just be normal people just doing their job. It was mentioned in the game by Lightning).
Another thing it's not apparent whether there were any other Pulse fal'Cie on Cocoon. Anima was the only one shown, and it was killed. It's implied that only Pulse fal'Cie had the ability to give branded l'Cie the power of Ragnarok (why Barthandelus brought Anima to Cocoon instead of using the Sanctum fal'Cie already there).
Vanille didn't really do the whole running away thing until after this scene:
Lightning wants to go after the fal'Cie at Eden + Sanctum. Vanille doesn't want that because it could get a lot more people hurt. She knows what their true Focus is (destroy Cocoon) but she sticks with the idea of it actually being "save Cocoon". When Lightning disagrees and just wants to go after Sanctum + fal'Cie, Vanille stops following her because (again) she doesn't want people to get hurt. Telling the truth (about their true Focus being destroy Cocoon), wouldn't really have helped because Vanille (and the others) do not know of any way to get rid of their brands or avoid their Focus without turning Cie'th.
So after this Vanille just decides to "run" and wait/turn Cie'th. She doesn't know where Fang is + she doesn't know that there is a villain (Barthandelus) behind the events. She doesn't want to endanger more people by going after Sanctum/fal'Cie and Lightning seems too determined to be convinced to do nothing. Vanille chose the safest option (the one least likely to get more hurt).
If you compare it to a real life situation (that is Vanille doesn't know she's in an FF game which "usually" leads to a good ending despite that outcomes), Vanille's actions are reasonable and noble.
Overall Vanille chose the best options. Telling the truth wouldn't really help because even if they knew, what could they do? Also she wanted to keep it from Fang since Fang is determined to save Vanille; knowing their Focus just means Fang attempts to destroy Cocoon.
I don't entirely agree with how SE did with everything in the story (making the character's options in the story limited with them just mostly going on a chosen path set for them. The game wasn't the only thing linear, the story and the character's options in said story was kind of too). Though out of the limited options, Vanille chose what she thought [and it was] safest), and that's my defense for Vanille.
Well anyway about FFXIII-2:
Things just got real (yes this is actually in the game):
XIII-2 came out tonight, wrapped up with it about 30 minutes ago, wrote up some quick impressions (pictures to keep you awake):
Really generous demo, though I'm still unsure of what to expect of the full game.
Opening with a fight against a colossal giant, it's apparent the combat is fundamentally the same. This fight however, I did not like, even as a tutorial. XIII had its brainless boss fights for you to learn the game through as well, but they were much more visually arresting. This colossus takes up the entire screen and it's hard to appreciate any of the actions of Sarah and Noel, and so the fight was a rather sleepy waiting game. This may be becasue the demo starts without a narrative introduction to add intensity to the fight, but I don't think anything is going to top XIII's runaway train sequence in this regard. The poppy new boss theme was a lot of fun to listen to though, and I hope to hear more like it in the full game. If not, the primary battle theme and Hamauzu's continued love of the violin for the XIII franchise will suffice for me.
Still on the subject of visuals, the environments don't look nearly as good as XIII's, but I guess that's the trade off you make when wanting to make things more open. They drop you off in a rainy encampment and it looks alright -- definitely no urge to pan the camera here like you do immediately upon exploring XIII's opening environments like the Hanging Edge inside Cocoon, and the crystallized Lake Bresha. Character models and battle animations still look exceptional, so these and other visual aspects have seemed to remain intact, the hair too.
Didn't think Sarah could live up to Light, but that bow/sword is pretty sick.
I'm not so frivolous as to believe giving players options in their environment inherently makes a game better, and I really did love how the linearity of XIII was handled. That being said, I'm happy to say XIII-2 seems to be in good hands approaching it's non-linear approach. It can assumed from the demo that areas you explore will have side missions, whether collecting missing items for someone or taking on a challenging hunt. Or you can cut straight to the plot advancement. What's really the pull here though is the monster collecting, and it would seem Sarah and Noel will probably be your only human characters for most of the game. Defeating monsters you encounter can lead to obtaining one for yourself to use, and incorporating these into your paradigms looks like it will be a very rewarding and time consuming endeavor. With the trailer revealing some really awesome possibilities, I think completionists have a lot to look forward to. Your moogle escort also adds a cool layer to exploration. It's not only there for comic relief and annoying sounds, it can be used to uncover hidden treasure trapped in other time dimensions (alright, the story is probably going to be ridiculous).
Party customization also looks much more interesting this time around, with the Crystarium actually having a purpose. You pile points into the roles you want to develop, rasing stats and learning new moves along the way -- that's the same. But with each level (or at certain intervals) you have to make a choice of what stats you want to focus on. Add another attack permanently to your attack gauge (this sounded best to me at the time), boost the effectiveness of a chosen role, or increase how many accessories you can hold. To clarify, each character has a maximum accessory weight, and powerful accessories will take more points to hold them. It's an interesting touch, but I see a lot of people overlooking accessories until their other stats are fleshed out first.
The story might end up being crazier than FFVIII's, but at least the voice performances sounded solid enough in the demo.
What seems to have gotten a lot of attention for XIII-2 in the media is how it features decision making -- a very valued aspect western RPGs (gasp). Contrary to what it sounds like, this isn't a moral dilemma kind of game like Dragon Age. The choice involved in the demo, and I assume for other scenarios of the game it will be handled similarly, allows players to take on a challenge from a few different possible angles. You have to face the colossus again, and can either take it head on, or take the long way around -- do a simple puzzle, and weaken it's power with a device before you face it. The situation in the demo was pretty shallow, but it's a tutorial like segment so I'm not so worried.
Battling is much the same save for some minor nuances. Enemy encounters are random again, but settle down, we're not going back to the dark ages. They appear pretty much out of nowhere, and that's your chance to get a preemptive strike by slicing them before they slice you -- same as XIII, really. You can also just run away if you're fast enough and avoid going to the battle screen entirely. Like XIII, and unfortunately almost every FF, battles are pretty straightforward at the start -- but I can honestly say my health bars were dipping pretty low against certain enemies even at this point in the game.
I guess the biggest difference then is the monsters and changes to paradigm options. When setting up your paradigms, you can now have the AI focus how they normally do according to their role, or have them use the Cross tactic where they focus one enemy, or a spread option where they focus many. As for your pokemon, they act as a 3rd party member and can be specifically assigned to certain paradigms. They also come with a pre-defined role of either ravager, sentinel, etc... Adding a bonus effect for your party, and having their own FFX like overdrives. Much to be seen on how strategic this game will get, but I already felt the collection addiction coming on in these aspects alone, so consider me optimistic.
They seem a lot more likable and down to earth than their outfits, really.
I'll end on Quick Time Events. There's nothing inherently wrong with the QTE concept, and I could tell the monster overdrives are going to be a lot of fun to master for full effectiveness (the ones shown in the demo trailer look nuts). But I'm mixed on the cinematic QTEs done for boss fights. I liked how it comes off as a cutscene with the characters communicating instead of merely being a fancy take down, but I also have to say that this game is bit sloppy in how it's hard to tell what's happening on screen. The frame didn't feel as smooth as XIII's, and the explosions of color everywhere made the QTEs hard to appreciate. Still, I saw some really cool examples in the trailer and hope it's not as ridiculous on the eyes as it was in the demo.
Comes out Jan 31st, and I'm happily keeping my CE pre-order. Platform puzzles, gambling, and chocobo racing await us!
Well we should remember that XIII also had a lot of vocals, and they did an amazing job with it (Sulya Springs, Gapra Whitewood, Dust to Dust, Choose to Fight, Sunleth Waterscape, and the sick final boss themes). So vocals aren't a problem with me, but XIII-2 does seem to have some bad vocals in comparison. I think they may have taken out some of the lyrics in the U.S. release, but I'm not hugely optimistic about the soundtrack aside from a few gems:
^_^
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Who else is picking it up on Tuesday? I'm getting the collectors and the pre-order bonus from Best Buy.
I really like this battle theme. So far, it the only song I like it lol. I was kinda iffy about the rock until the violin came in and I just scream like a school girl
I usually dont have problem with vocal but damn Leona lewis vocal tend to screw up alot of the FF13 song....I am not hating her but I am hating a majority of the vocal shes done. These are the only one that I find to be exceptional and Final fantasy quaility and believe that vocal can work. I agree, Charice fails....hard. + Show Spoiler +
On January 30 2012 04:21 101toss wrote: Will this game feature unlockable gamerpics (or themes for PS3 users)? I got the Serah one from 13, hopefully I can get more.
I'm really enjoying the game so far, it certainly a much better game than FFXIII. I wish they would give some more info about the monsters ingame though, I'm like 8 hours in and I still have no idea what the monster grade or personality traits do.
The soundtrack is really growing on me, there's alot more vocal tracks and it's quite varied. And the monster dress-up is just adorable.
On January 30 2012 05:41 SmileTime wrote: I'm really enjoying the game so far, it certainly a much better game than FFXIII. I wish they would give some more info about the monsters ingame though, I'm like 8 hours in and I still have no idea what the monster grade or personality traits do.
The soundtrack is really growing on me, there's alot more vocal tracks and it's quite varied. And the monster dress-up is just adorable.
Don't want spoilers, but how's the story? Enjoyable?
On January 30 2012 05:41 SmileTime wrote: I'm really enjoying the game so far, it certainly a much better game than FFXIII. I wish they would give some more info about the monsters ingame though, I'm like 8 hours in and I still have no idea what the monster grade or personality traits do.
The soundtrack is really growing on me, there's alot more vocal tracks and it's quite varied. And the monster dress-up is just adorable.
Don't want to be spoiled either, but can you plss tell me how "weird" the characters are compare relatively to characters of FFXIII? Because what puts me off in FFXIII is the casts of terrible characters, though i still enjoyed the game for the most part.
I'm only like 7 hours in, but I find it quite enjoyable. The story was the main reason I didn't like FFXIII that much so I'm really glad I at least find it interesting this time around.
Edit: And yeah, the characters are a lot less annoying. I haven't felt the urge to strangle anyone so far. Yeah, I'm looking at you Hope/Hope's mother/Vanille.
The best part is that even if you hate the story I still think you'll enjoy the game, something that wasn't possible in FFXIII in my opinion.
On January 30 2012 06:03 SmileTime wrote: I'm only like 7 hours in, but I find it quite enjoyable. The story was the main reason I didn't like FFXIII that much so I'm really glad I at least find it interesting this time around.
Edit: And yeah, the characters are a lot less annoying. I haven't felt the urge to strangle anyone so far. Yeah, I'm looking at you Hope/Hope's mother/Vanille.
The best part is that even if you hate the story I still think you'll enjoy the game, something that wasn't possible in FFXIII in my opinion.
wat?! WAT?! How can you not add Snow in the list. Snow is the most hypocritical annoying bastard there is. LETS BE HEROES!! YAHH!!!!! It felt like I was watching power rangers. God I hate him more then Hope and Vanille combined. The fact that I am going to play the 13-2 as the girl that actually fell in love with that guy make me pretty skeptical about it too.
Also what's wrong with Charice? Isn't she supposed to be talented? I mean the lyrics are bad but that's moreso out of being poor with English (though idk who wrote it), but the singing seems fine to me.
On January 30 2012 06:27 SmileTime wrote: "hey lets find lightning" doesn't really do it justice imo, there is certainly a lot more going on, but you'll see soon enough.
I think SquareEnix has confirmed a Lightning.as-3rd-character DLC if that makes you happy.
wouldnt that like completely distort the story line? lol i mean the whole game is to find lightning but if you are playing as lightning how are you going to find lightning? lololol
On January 30 2012 06:27 SmileTime wrote: "hey lets find lightning" doesn't really do it justice imo, there is certainly a lot more going on, but you'll see soon enough.
I think SquareEnix has confirmed a Lightning.as-3rd-character DLC if that makes you happy.
wouldnt that like completely distort the story line? lol i mean the whole game is to find lightning but if you are playing as lightning how are you going to find lightning? lololol
theres time travel apparently, i guess thats how they would implement it
Got the CE preordered at bestbuy (like their package the most) now all I have to do is make sure my gf picks it up on her lunch break. Thursday/Friday I am off of work so I'll be playing a lot of it then.
Just got my CE that I preordered off Amazon, all of the stuff is together (artbook is part of the case, soundtrack slots are on one side while the game is on the other), looking forward to playing it for a few hours today. Edit - played it a bit, have to say compared to XIII, a lot of the new stuff that they added (cinematic action, live trigger stuff, new battle engagement) is pretty awesome, and a few hours in and I'm enjoying it a lot more than the first, story might be a bit wacky so far for people that didn't play 13, but gameplay makes up for it
On January 30 2012 06:24 kineticSYN wrote: not gonna lie, especially since lightning has/had become my favorite character in all of the final fantasy worlds..
the lack of being able to play her makes me very upset
especially when being replaced with her lackluster sister and random new guy
the story feels very weak to me too, "hey lets find lightning" and thats it, no depth or anything :S
but i love final fantasy in general and will play the shit out of it regardless so lol :D
She was the one somewhat good thing in FF13 and her smaller role made me lean from maybe buying this game to not buying it. And having played Trails in the Sky recently I remembered what I want from my Japanese RPG's and FF13-2 isn't that.
Not going to badmouth the game without giving it a chance though, hope everyone that bought it enjoy it and I'l probably try to import asian version one day if people don't think it's a completely lost cause but still lacking faith towards it atm.
Played about an hour and a half; it fixes a lot of the issues the first one had as well as being very pretty still. I think I'm gonna like this one way more than the first.
Also, I can't believe how desperate square is to get non-rpgers to play this game. There is an easy mode, a battle retry mode, mog clock let's you start with the enemy at staggered every single battle, etc. They really gave an opportunity to make this ridiculously casual of a game.
Well as the rare person who loved FFXIII I bought this last night and played it a little bit (<2 hours) and was extremely happy. Beginning is so pretty! Its not Skyrim or any game like that, I play these sort of games to relax to beautiful graphics/nice soundrack and a nice linear story where I press some buttons every once in a while. Basically instead of watching TV or movies.
But yeah, was so excited last night. (Except opening was kind of ruined by subtitles being on as default wtf) Will play an hour or two a night before I go to sleep till I finish it and pretty sure I will enjoy most all of it.
On February 01 2012 10:09 Atreides wrote: Well as the rare person who loved FFXIII I bought this last night and played it a little bit (<2 hours) and was extremely happy. Beginning is so pretty! Its not Skyrim or any game like that, I play these sort of games to relax to beautiful graphics/nice soundrack and a nice linear story where I press some buttons every once in a while. Basically instead of watching TV or movies.
But yeah, was so excited last night. (Except opening was kind of ruined by subtitles being on as default wtf) Will play an hour or two a night before I go to sleep till I finish it and pretty sure I will enjoy most all of it.
(Mild Spoilers below)
YES, precisely this. Remember that boring first 2 hours of XIII? How it was just mashing x while you killed crap soldiers? I love that in XIII-2 they actually integrated cutscene actions and summons in the very first battle. That entire Valhalla sequence was just phenomenal. And right after that they drop you into an actual town. Two hours in and they've already eliminated two big XIII criticisms right off the bat.
And I'm really glad Noel isn't a glorified Hope, and actually has some balls/coolness.
Just got mine today and I'm going on a week-long vacation tomorrow, going to miss playing already.
For anyone that likes to min/max and do all the crazy stuff in single player RPGs, I'll plug my friend's youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/arthellinus . He worked on the official FF XIII-2 strategy guide so he's had the game for months and will be uploading tons of videos in the next few days. He made lots of FF XIII videos and is also responsible for those ridiculously good Persona 3 and 4 databases on GameFAQs. Also, if you never buy official strategy guides because they're useless and written by idiots, this one might be worth looking at.
Roomie picked this up today. I sat down to watch the first little bit. I have been a huge FF fan in the past but now I can safely put the series as well as Square Enix to rest. I've had some amazing times playing their (Squaresoft) games but Square-Enix is only fit to give money to OTHER companies to create quality titles. The storytelling is atrocious so far and I can't see it getting any better. Everything is real beautiful though. Too bad there's going to be no substance behind it. 8 and 16 bit games capture me with character development and storylines far more then visuals of some spiraling vista in a bizarre outworld dimension. GOD DAMMIT SQUARE ENIX! You've got the money, hire some story writers as well as better Directors. Sheesh.
(Maybe I'm a bit biased but gaming in general is setting the standards on visuals higher and higher and shitting all over plot and character development. I want to CARE about the characters not see the pores on their skin.)
My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
On February 01 2012 15:17 ShadowDrgn wrote: For anyone that likes to min/max and do all the crazy stuff in single player RPGs, I'll plug my friend's youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/arthellinus . He worked on the official FF XIII-2 strategy guide so he's had the game for months and will be uploading tons of videos in the next few days. He made lots of FF XIII videos and is also responsible for those ridiculously good Persona 3 and 4 databases on GameFAQs. Also, if you never buy official strategy guides because they're useless and written by idiots, this one might be worth looking at.
I literally got to about a second after the new game loaded, heard lightnings voice and turned it off.
Why?!
Im not going to ruin the feeling i get everytime i get a new final fantasy, its literally one of the best feelings ever. Walking out of the gamestore, RUNNING THE FUCK HOME, Ripping off the packaging, put the disc in then go downstairs and gather supplies for the 48 hour stint (I almost always restart a few hours in once i got the hang of the added features / battle system etc) then sit down and enjoy the epicness.
Whoever watches it on youtube ruins it for themselves IMO.
On February 01 2012 15:17 ShadowDrgn wrote: For anyone that likes to min/max and do all the crazy stuff in single player RPGs, I'll plug my friend's youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/arthellinus . He worked on the official FF XIII-2 strategy guide so he's had the game for months and will be uploading tons of videos in the next few days. He made lots of FF XIII videos and is also responsible for those ridiculously good Persona 3 and 4 databases on GameFAQs. Also, if you never buy official strategy guides because they're useless and written by idiots, this one might be worth looking at.
Tell him thank you very much for those P3 and P4 guides, even if he hasn't fully completed the P3P database yet. =P
So I take it you can only use Serra and Noel this game? With the 3 character being whatever captured monster you are currently using?
On February 01 2012 15:17 ShadowDrgn wrote: For anyone that likes to min/max and do all the crazy stuff in single player RPGs, I'll plug my friend's youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/arthellinus . He worked on the official FF XIII-2 strategy guide so he's had the game for months and will be uploading tons of videos in the next few days. He made lots of FF XIII videos and is also responsible for those ridiculously good Persona 3 and 4 databases on GameFAQs. Also, if you never buy official strategy guides because they're useless and written by idiots, this one might be worth looking at.
Tell him thank you very much for those P3 and P4 guides, even if he hasn't fully completed the P3P database yet. =P
So I take it you can only use Serra and Noel this game? With the 3 character being whatever captured monster you are currently using?
3 and a half hours into the game so far and that seems to be the case for me.
On February 01 2012 15:17 ShadowDrgn wrote: For anyone that likes to min/max and do all the crazy stuff in single player RPGs, I'll plug my friend's youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/arthellinus . He worked on the official FF XIII-2 strategy guide so he's had the game for months and will be uploading tons of videos in the next few days. He made lots of FF XIII videos and is also responsible for those ridiculously good Persona 3 and 4 databases on GameFAQs. Also, if you never buy official strategy guides because they're useless and written by idiots, this one might be worth looking at.
Tell him thank you very much for those P3 and P4 guides, even if he hasn't fully completed the P3P database yet. =P
So I take it you can only use Serra and Noel this game? With the 3 character being whatever captured monster you are currently using?
I'm like 10 hours in but yeah thats the case so far....
Even when you meet up with Snow and he follows you around and fights with you for a little bit hes not actually in your party and you have no control of him.
This might sound dumb as hell but fuck it. When the moggle finds hidden treasures I'm supposed to be able to grab it right?.. I tried X and R1+X and everything I could think of, nothing works. I can't pick that shit up. According to 1 yahoo answer I found while googling I was supposed to speak to some guard in the first village. Am I fucked and I should just make a new save or? I'm only like 3 hours in so it''s not the end of the world but somewhat annoying...
On February 02 2012 08:22 DwD wrote: This might sound dumb as hell but fuck it. When the moggle finds hidden treasures I'm supposed to be able to grab it right?.. I tried X and R1+X and everything I could think of, nothing works. I can't pick that shit up. According to 1 yahoo answer I found while googling I was supposed to speak to some guard in the first village. Am I fucked and I should just make a new save or? I'm only like 3 hours in so it''s not the end of the world but somewhat annoying...
Both chests and loose artefacts (sic) uncovered by the moogle ability should be able to open/pick up like any other chests. Game should give you a prompt when you are looking at them etc. (Its A on 360) Not sure I really understand the question. But it should be just like ever other chest.
Edit: When the moogle glows and shit cuz its found something you have to use its ability to uncover said item. TBH though most of the time I can see the phased out chest myself without the moogle telling me and then just use his ability that puts it back in the right time phase.
On February 02 2012 08:22 DwD wrote: This might sound dumb as hell but fuck it. When the moggle finds hidden treasures I'm supposed to be able to grab it right?.. I tried X and R1+X and everything I could think of, nothing works. I can't pick that shit up. According to 1 yahoo answer I found while googling I was supposed to speak to some guard in the first village. Am I fucked and I should just make a new save or? I'm only like 3 hours in so it''s not the end of the world but somewhat annoying...
Both chests and loose artefacts (sic) uncovered by the moogle ability should be able to open/pick up like any other chests. Game should give you a prompt when you are looking at them etc. (Its A on 360) Not sure I really understand the question. But it should be just like ever other chest.
Edit: When the moogle glows and shit cuz its found something you have to use its ability to uncover said item. TBH though most of the time I can see the phased out chest myself without the moogle telling me and then just use his ability that puts it back in the right time phase.
Wait what do you mean use it's ability? The moggle just walks to it and stops, when I go there I don't get any prompt or anything.. Must be broken right?
16 hours in, will hopefully finish it by the end of the week with a review written soon after.
So far though here are my likes and dislikes:
The Good:
Noel -- interesting and likable character, biggest surprise of the game for me.
Voice performances
Cinematic QTEs -- aren't overdone and are actually pretty fun to execute
Lovely environments
Interesting post-Coccon culture
Good cameos from the original cast
Developing characters/monsters -- feels rewarding and powerful
Plot is genuinely interesting
The Bad:
Lightning and Serah's pretentious monologues after every cutescene
Ugly environments
Framerate dips
Inconsistent challenge -- hugely inconsistent. I'm in the middle of an 8 hour lull in difficulty where Com/Rav/Rav gives me 5 stars on everything. This was after a segment where I was almost getting 1 shotted each battle.
Sidequests -- feel cheap, are pretty vague, and not very interesting at all
Casino -- it's just weak, and totally forced.
Cutscenes -- not much happening beyond Noel and Sarah making small take at each time gate.
Uncertain:
Narrative -- hopefully it reaches a climax soon, currently lacks the emotional punch of XIII
Difficulty -- hopefully it picks up again, XIII was much harder in comparison which is saying something
End-game content -- will it be as entertaining as XIII's hunts? Or will I be grinding out fast chocobos and sitting at the slot machines?
On February 02 2012 12:01 holdthephone wrote: 16 hours in, will hopefully finish it by the end of the week with a review written soon after.
So far though here are my likes and dislikes:
The Good:
Noel -- interesting and likable character, biggest surprise of the game for me.
Voice performances
Cinematic QTEs -- aren't overdone and are actually pretty fun to execute
Lovely environments
Interesting post-Coccon culture
Good cameos from the original cast
Developing characters/monsters -- feels rewarding and powerful
Plot is genuinely interesting
The Bad:
Lightning and Serah's pretentious monologues after every cutescene
Ugly environments
Framerate dips
Inconsistent challenge -- hugely inconsistent. I'm in the middle of an 8 hour lull in difficulty where Com/Rav/Rav gives me 5 stars on everything. This was after a segment where I was almost getting 1 shotted each battle.
Sidequests -- feel cheap, are pretty vague, and not very interesting at all
Casino -- it's just weak, and totally forced.
Cutscenes -- not much happening beyond Noel and Sarah making small take at each time gate.
Uncertain:
Narrative -- hopefully it reaches a climax soon, currently lacks the emotional punch of XIII
Difficulty -- hopefully it picks up again, XIII was much harder in comparison which is saying something
End-game content -- will it be as entertaining as XIII's hunts? Or will I be grinding out fast chocobos and sitting at the slot machines?
Very nice post...I'm only like 3-4 hours in, pretty fun stuff. I really liked XIII (one of the few), and I'm starting to like this one...However, there's one part I'm dreading already....
This was after a segment where I was almost getting 1 shotted each battle.
On February 02 2012 14:03 EliteAzn wrote: Very nice post...I'm only like 3-4 hours in, pretty fun stuff. I really liked XIII (one of the few), and I'm starting to like this one...However, there's one part I'm dreading already....
This was after a segment where I was almost getting 1 shotted each battle.
...
thanks...
About the 1 shotted each battle dread, not sure it's like that for everyone. Explained in spoilers just in case, although as spoiler free as I could make it (no names of places, people, etc): + Show Spoiler +
Just got through a part (let's call it pathA) like that where I died every other fight. I found out from a friend also playing the game that you could take a different route (pathB) at the time of chosing, and that route was significantly easier, although the game doesn't tell you it's designed for you to go to pathA first, which would then make pathB easier and pathA not a cakewalk.
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
You sound like the typical fan in distress, but let's see what you have here.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
Me and you are the same here, but I'd be hard pressed to find many JRPGs that have better narrative presentation than what Square has put out this generation. Playing XIII-2 after games like Star Ocean 4, Resoance of Fate, Valkyria Chronciles -- I'm tempted to praise XIII-2 more than it deserves for outclassing games like that. Is it still sappy and have some lines that put my eyes toward the ceiling? Of course, I mean, anyone who's played anything Final Fantasy can't deny their melodramatic nature. But onto your rant.
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
This paragraph was a bit all over the place but I suppose you wanted to focus on music composition -- which I agree is crucial, and glad to see Square puts an almost stupidly large amount of effort into their OSTs compared to most developers. If you cannot see the amount of resources behind something like XIII's musical score, I don't think I can change your mind, but I will give my take on the subject.
Masashi Hamauzu is no joke. Let's go back to FFX -- great OST, no? Yes Nobuo gets the headline for this game, but many tracks were under the helm of Hamauzu, let's take a look at some of his own work there.
X:
Complete warmth, made the beaches of Besaid the unforgettable memory that they were. + Show Spoiler +
Dutiful and enchanting (Hamauzu is the violin maestro of Final Fantasy). + Show Spoiler +
I could list more, but the talent is undeniably there and long been appreciated by fans whether they thought it was Nobuo all along or not. But onto XIII, where you say it was a horrible mistake to continue without Nobuo.
XIII:
Adrenaline rushing, uplifting, and a beautifully layered build up. Is this not the best boss theme? + Show Spoiler +
Soothing, everyone loves the track that plays when Lightning enters the Whitewood with Hope under her wing. + Show Spoiler +
This track overrides the battle theme for the Oerba village segment, because the team knew how powerful this music and setting were together: + Show Spoiler +
The world crashing down around you and an inescapable fate of destruction. + Show Spoiler +
I'm getting frustrated now because I want to list nearly every track in XIII's OST. It's consistently great, track to track, without fail. And that violin? It's the only reason I could stand some of the slow pacing in battles early on in the game.
The subject is XIII-2 though, and I will say this -- it is a step down. But considering what it's stepping down from, it's no surprise that it's undeniably still solid in its own right. Its biggest problem is the vocals -- as you stated -- which is interesting because the vocals were one of XIII's greatest strengths (the ones listed above, along with Sulya Springs, Will to Fight, etc...). XIII-2 is after a more industrious and modern approach in its composition because of the game's setting -- people settling into cities on Pulse -- so we see some more rock, rap, and poppy tracks. Few are nearly as terrible as you make them sound (the rap tracks and the metal being the biggest offenders), while some are okay (I like New Bodhum and the Archelyte Steppe, or at least find them acceptable). Those make up a pretty small portion of the entire OST though, and everything between is decent, and sometimes great:
Battle theme (the violin sings wonderfully here, but it's a shame the battles end so fast): + Show Spoiler +
One of the highlights, hear the FFX similarities in the beginning? + Show Spoiler +
I'm trying to find a couple of others I really enjoyed but unsure of the track names; I'm still playing the game, after all. And of course, the game revisits XIII's soundtrack many times so that can only be a plus (though you could argue it's also kind of lame, ha).
So if the argument here is that XIII-2 has had a more mixed level of quality in its OST, then I'd agree. Is it something to be frightened of when most of the soundtrack is still fairly top tier in the industry? Please. XIII-2 isn't even a major project like XIII was, they could of just given us X-2 all over again. Let's be thankful here.
Onward!
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
You are supposed to think all those thoughts. The opening to XIII-2 is one big shocker, or at least supposed to be. It begs the question, what on earth could of happened? Serah is just as confused, you're not alone. The game knows exactly what it's doing, and explains as much as the characters understand at each point along the story. You'll notice Noel often repeats things others say in a dumbed down manner -- this is done for the player. That's the whole point of the dialogue decisions as well -- the game wants you to think, to ponder, and wants you to know it's alright to be lost.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
It is bizarre, it knows that. It questions the craziness occurring around the characters at every chance it gets. I am 16 hours in and still have questions like this myself, but I'm comfortable because Serah and Noel never fail to bring up what is on my mind. Why is Serah chosen? What's with the vision? To be honest I think it's becoming a problem, because I'm an adult and I don't like to be babied though my stories.
The failure players seem to make is judging everything at face value as ridiculous. They see Caius and him wanting to "destroy everything," and think "oh, another lame villain!" Yes he has been shown as an obstacle, but I will tell you now he isn't just a Kefka running around being nasty for the sake of being nasty.The beginning of the game shows Caius gently performing a burial ritual for a young girl, the game wants you to notice that -- they put it in goddamn CGI. Shit costs money.
As for the Star Wars comparison, it's a cute and funny one, but you are just beginning a game that revolves around a story that does not come to complete information until probably a climatic ending moment, like its predecessor did. Being angry over not getting the story when there is no way you are meant to yet is pointless. We could argue about other and real flaws of the narrative, like the annoying melodramatic monologues Lightning and Serah have to give us after each scene, but you seem more caught up with the trivial. As for the characters, I will be the last on this board to claim any FF cast is incredibly deep or amazingly well written, but it's miles beyond anything in Star Wars Episode 1, and carries a very meaningful theme that hopefully becomes apparent to you.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Character split ups were implemented to develop the plights of each individual character in a powerful way (ala FFVI). The linear nature was derived from the idea that they were on a fixed path to an inevitable fate. Are a couple of characters a bit flat? Yes. Are some scenes too riddled with melodrama? Yes. I could discuss these flaws with you all night, but you seem to only be mentioning on the parts that aren't flaws. Linear game design is linear game design, it cannot be wrong by nature. It's the content within in it that counts. And thus I could go on and rip on XIII's slow battle pacing in the first segments of the game, but once again, nothing to do with linear pathways -- those were actually really pretty and fun to walk through.
The linearity kept the narrative on the track it needed to be, it brought us through breathtaking environments and intense character development. To say XIII was not adventurous because it was linear is an argument that stands on nothing but someone's preference for a more open world game. No thank you, I don't want to go raise chocobos while I have a limited time to live as a cursed Li'Cie. Welcome to good game design.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
First, the biggest problem of your attitude is implied when you asked, ..."isn't this why we love ff?" FF is a name, leave it be. It is not your franchise, it is not mine. Square has made it clear it has no qualms in leaving old fans behind to make new ones. XIII is a brand new universe and it will be its own game.
The problem with XIII wasn't the system, it was the occasional lull in enemy encounters in the beginning of the game, as few offered much for the player to think about (sound familiar to other FFs?). From mid to late game, however, I dare say it's one of the finest creations Square has envisioned for one their games. No other FF is as real time as XIII is, in that you literally have to react to what's on screen during animation. That huge hand is coming down on your party! Sentinels!! Okay, now back to Com/Rav/Rav! Have to heal, but watch that stagger bar, you don't want to lose all of your efforts for nothing! Buffs are dying, Synergists! Okay he's Staggered, all out Commandos!!
I loved the moments when FFXIII shined, absolutely loved it. It's dynamic battle, the focus is entirely on switching up your approach at key times. Many of the bosses in XIII seemed unreasonably hard because they forced players to be true twitch fiends with the paradigms, and to be relentlessly offensive in times where it seemed most dangerous to do so. If the Auto option was not there, the game would fall apart, it would lose its appeal, you would not be able to think, you would not be able to appreciate the beauty of your team pacing the field in a menacing manner and unleashing their dazzling combos. No, no and no.
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
settle down, there are plenty of doomsayers out there you can join your opinions with. really i completely understand all your views, but i never like to discuss a game around opinions muddled in emotional ties to the FF name.
I wanted to respond to him as well, holdthephone, but you obviously put it into much better words than I would have. I still can't believe someone can complain about the soundtrack in XIII or the combat. The combat in XIII was probably by far my favorite in the series and I enjoyed using multiple strategies to take down bosses or even finding the optimum combination to tear through enemies.
On February 02 2012 16:40 holdthephone wrote: As for the characters, I will be the last on this board to claim any FF cast is incredibly deep or amazingly well written, but it's miles beyond anything in Star Wars Episode 1, and carries a very meaningful theme that hopefully becomes apparent to you.
Tidus, FFX. Best, deepest, most well planned out character of all final fantasy series...was seriously super sad at the end of that game...that hugging scene at the end!! (FFVII's cast doesn't count because all that shit that made them epic was written almost 10 years AFTER the original game (Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, Crisis Core, Before Crisis, etc.)). 2nd in my opinion would be Cecil from FFIV.
Really, I just wanted to get across that Final Fantasy is not your Planescape Torment. It does not care for delving deeply into backgrounds or lore, and it does not care for advanced literary devices and professional grade writing. It's about the colorful, the emotional, and the fantastical -- using characters to hopefully send a powerful theme that can be appreciated by all ages. Many things out of Japan are like this, even in their hugely complicated and convoluted games like MGS. Who the hell gets on their codec communicator in the middle of an espionage mission to discuss the philosophy of love and war? That's Japan for you.
I agree that Tidus is a great character, and I'd agree one of the best. He hated his father, he was stripped from the good life, he witnessed his dad return in the form of a monster that took happiness from people he cared about, and yet the game eventually ends with him slapping fives with his pops. Shame on anyone who can't at least respect that kind of story.
This paragraph was a bit all over the place but I suppose you wanted to focus on music composition -- which I agree is crucial, and glad to see Square puts an almost stupidly large amount of effort into their OSTs compared to most developers. If you cannot see the amount of resources behind something like XIII's musical score, I don't think I can change your mind, but I will give my take on the subject.
Ok deal FFX soundtrack I loved. Almost every single song. I am a bit of a fanboy for Nobuo so I think I got a bit heavy handed with the music. I'll concede that ff 13's tracks are solid but I'm still going with liking a lot of previous OST's more. (Offtrack but I absolutely love the soundtracks from Nier, Chrono Cross/trigger, and all incarnations of Zelda.) I am ALWAYS down for more violin.
As for the Star Wars comparison, it's a cute and funny one, but you are just beginning a game that revolves around a story that does not come to complete information until probably a climatic ending moment, like its predecessor did.
Whoawhoa, my comparison to star wars was the quality of shots and how much clutter there was in the bastard children that the prequels became. Instead of quality cinematography it became chunky visual fecal matter. I found Lightnings initial mounted battle extremely cluttered with one very cool moment (zoom in of her face as she exhaled in surprise). I am not comparing quality of story/characters at all. Any characters written by ANY author most likely outstrip the disappointment of episode 123.
As for combat I cannot agree with you in the slightest. Visually it's impressive but mechanically I don't enjoy the lack of control. That and most of what I've stated is purely personal opinion and if Square goes off in another direction so too shall I. No harm no foul. Also good point on the bosses. A few were difficult to the point of feeling like I was missing some obvious strategy like hitting an explosive barrel next to the boss, only to find no such targetable object and no glaring weakness -__-
Good games and bad games will continue to be released. I guess in a way you proved me wrong. I am nostalgic. I want some of my old school rpg's with updated looks and a fresh story but I feel like since gaming has become such a larger industry it's escaped evolved and become something different then what I used to love. Guess I'll just look elsewhere for my gaming fix.
Sorry I misread your starwars bit, I personally don't think it's too over the top though.
But listen, it's important to keep your opinions in check. When a beloved franchise goes in a direction you didn't want it to, you're going to sit there and pick the whole thing apart regardless of how much you can actually back up. It's like when you really hate a person's guts, so when you see them do anything, it just makes you angry "Look at that douche bag, talking to his friends...grrr." This is how I looked at Starcraft 2 for a while, but I've come to terms with it as a great game designed for different players. Doesn't mean the game is free of problems though, and that's what we should be able to discuss on a forum.
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. I can list 10 things that the story from FFVIII and IX did right (two with the best stories imo) and what XIII did wrong but i won't spoil it for you. I'll tell you one thing though, those stories weren't exclusively for kids judging from the way they deliver it, especially VIII. And FVII is just outright not for kids with all those depress moment and Cid rolf
Going to get this tomorrow morning (UK Release -_-) IM SO HYPEDDDDDDDDDD
BTW 13's story was awesome. from what i played of it at least, i got to pulse twice. (Once my bro-in-laws PS3 he moved out, then i broke mine) and havent managed to force myself through its linear gameplay again. Its awesome the first time because of story and bearable the second, but after meeeh will eventually for the Pulse hunting and storyline finish, although 13-2 will ruin that for me im sure. :-(
Hypeeed. The music seems shitty though, FFX's music is really nostalgic for me god...so brilliant.
On February 03 2012 03:42 Capped wrote: Going to get this tomorrow morning (UK Release -_-) IM SO HYPEDDDDDDDDDD
BTW 13's story was awesome. from what i played of it at least, i got to pulse twice. (Once my bro-in-laws PS3 he moved out, then i broke mine) and havent managed to force myself through its linear gameplay again. Its awesome the first time because of story and bearable the second, but after meeeh will eventually for the Pulse hunting and storyline finish, although 13-2 will ruin that for me im sure. :-(
Hypeeed. The music seems shitty though, FFX's music is really nostalgic for me god...so brilliant.
On February 03 2012 03:42 Capped wrote: Going to get this tomorrow morning (UK Release -_-) IM SO HYPEDDDDDDDDDD
BTW 13's story was awesome. from what i played of it at least, i got to pulse twice. (Once my bro-in-laws PS3 he moved out, then i broke mine) and havent managed to force myself through its linear gameplay again. Its awesome the first time because of story and bearable the second, but after meeeh will eventually for the Pulse hunting and storyline finish, although 13-2 will ruin that for me im sure. :-(
Hypeeed. The music seems shitty though, FFX's music is really nostalgic for me god...so brilliant.
On February 03 2012 03:42 Capped wrote: Going to get this tomorrow morning (UK Release -_-) IM SO HYPEDDDDDDDDDD
BTW 13's story was awesome. from what i played of it at least, i got to pulse twice. (Once my bro-in-laws PS3 he moved out, then i broke mine) and havent managed to force myself through its linear gameplay again. Its awesome the first time because of story and bearable the second, but after meeeh will eventually for the Pulse hunting and storyline finish, although 13-2 will ruin that for me im sure. :-(
Hypeeed. The music seems shitty though, FFX's music is really nostalgic for me god...so brilliant.
If you're not sure whether you'll like this game or not, don't hype or you're very likely to be dissapointed
Never. Ever. Ever been dissapointed by a final fantasy, EVER. period. :D
People hated 13, i loved the story, maybe im some angsty emo kid in disguise IDK.
It seems like they've fixed alot of things from 13 like the linear pathing etc, so i doubt i'll be disappointed.
Do hope i like noel though :-D
Maybe you're kinda misused the word disappointed. You can both enjoy and disappoint at the same time. However, if you really think the game is improved every times it release then you're really never disappointed at FF games
What are some good options for monsters early? I just beat the Atlas and I'm using Caith Sith, Garchimsomething, and a Pulsework Knight, but I'd really like to find a COM and better RAV.
The pulse knight seems pretty cool since I have no other uses for the mechanical parts, but I don't know how useful sentinels are in this game. I saw an Albino Lobo but didn't capture it, and haven't seen one since. I have most of the other monsters in bresha and new bodhum.
Picked this game up, haven't played it yet. I have to say, though, despite the ranting of the hatedom (not here specifically, just the entire internet in general) I'm expecting to love it to death. FF13 wouldn't make it to my top 10 games of all time, but I appreciated every glorious non-"realistic-3rd person-action-adventure" moment of it.
Sometimes you need some variety in games, and as good as stuff like Batman and Uncharted are, it gets tiring having every developer shove this "fun = realistic" mentality down your throat. I just want to let loose, enjoy an end-of-the-world plot, and smash enemies with ludicrous animations and flashy colours.
On February 03 2012 04:09 Sandster wrote: What are some good options for monsters early? I just beat the Atlas and I'm using Caith Sith, Garchimsomething, and a Pulsework Knight, but I'd really like to find a COM and better RAV.
The pulse knight seems pretty cool since I have no other uses for the mechanical parts, but I don't know how useful sentinels are in this game. I saw an Albino Lobo but didn't capture it, and haven't seen one since. I have most of the other monsters in bresha and new bodhum.
Pulsework Knight is easily one of the best monsters you can have til about halfway through the story. So stupidly easy to level up too, got it in the ruins and already had a bunch of those bolts to level it up to 20 right away.
My personal opinion about the game: Completed the main storyline now, very good "end" and satisfying! So far I personally think this game is one of the better ones in the series. I enjoyed Serah and Noel far more than I anticipated. I have issues adapting to loud characters, but those two were very easy to play as. The difficulty of the main storyline, if one follows it somewhat without doing every single side quest, was quite ok. There weren’t too many very easy nor very hard bosses, though most of them forced me to dance around with paradigms quite a bit. I didn’t grind a single time though. I take it they balanced it quite well, assuming people would do most side quests in the beginning and eventually do less and less of them as they require more and more endgame things. I liked FF13, but it felt a bit too easy (even the “endgame”). This game did well in the aspects FF13 lacked. I haven’t done much after actually completing the game, so it’ll be interesting. I’m certain it’ll be equally satisfying!
The complexity behind the character growth is a nice feature as well. I’m certain few people in the world will actually end up with the same stats in the end (unless you follow piggybacks guide).
I found the last encounter to be quite hard (and awesome!), going from start-end I ended up with about 2.5k on Serah and 3k on Noel, took a few attempts until I managed. I was stupid enough to not use that Flansomething as a healer, used Orion, Silver Chocobo and Flan (Ravager).
Bottomline: The game was well worth the wait in my opinion, and this I base this solely on the main story path. I haven’t even started the extra stuff. I really hope they’ll make a FF13-3 and loads of DLC for 13-2! I love the paradigm system, it feels like a system that gives a nice and rewarding learningcurve.
On February 02 2012 16:40 holdthephone wrote: As for the characters, I will be the last on this board to claim any FF cast is incredibly deep or amazingly well written, but it's miles beyond anything in Star Wars Episode 1, and carries a very meaningful theme that hopefully becomes apparent to you.
Tidus, FFX. Best, deepest, most well planned out character of all final fantasy series...was seriously super sad at the end of that game...that hugging scene at the end!! (FFVII's cast doesn't count because all that shit that made them epic was written almost 10 years AFTER the original game (Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, Crisis Core, Before Crisis, etc.)). 2nd in my opinion would be Cecil from FFIV.
Im sorry, but Tidus was the biggest bitch of any FF ever, i mean Cloud was a little bit better cause he was dark and emo but Tidus just whines constantly throughout the whole game. Yuna made up for it though, lol.
On February 02 2012 16:40 holdthephone wrote: As for the characters, I will be the last on this board to claim any FF cast is incredibly deep or amazingly well written, but it's miles beyond anything in Star Wars Episode 1, and carries a very meaningful theme that hopefully becomes apparent to you.
Tidus, FFX. Best, deepest, most well planned out character of all final fantasy series...was seriously super sad at the end of that game...that hugging scene at the end!! (FFVII's cast doesn't count because all that shit that made them epic was written almost 10 years AFTER the original game (Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, Crisis Core, Before Crisis, etc.)). 2nd in my opinion would be Cecil from FFIV.
Im sorry, but Tidus was the biggest bitch of any FF ever, i mean Cloud was a little bit better cause he was dark and emo but Tidus just whines constantly throughout the whole game. Yuna made up for it though, lol.
Agreed, the other characters made up for him. I wish there had been more of jecht and braska I remember friends taking a shot every time he said THIS IS MY STORY
I dislike Vaan as well. I put him in the Tidus and Hope category. Best cast of characters is FFVI for me.
I actually liked the first part of FF13's story. It just seems that they made so many twists that they couldn't figure out how to resolve them without using a deus ex machina.
I think Tidus worked because of the setting. He wasn't that bad to be honest. He's a kid that's been thrown into pretty much a new world. His personality and youngness go well with Yuna and you can see how and why they become good friends.
On February 04 2012 02:01 ToT)OjKa( wrote: I think Tidus worked because of the setting. He wasn't that bad to be honest. He's a kid that's been thrown into pretty much a new world. His personality and youngness go well with Yuna and you can see how and why they become good friends.
Vaan was just a nobody though.
I'm not sure why everyone is hating on characters. A bad characters always makes me feel careless toward them, as if they're not in the game. Vaan is a good example, i didn't even remember that much abouit him except he wanted to fly or some shit. At least Tidus has some sort of role in the story but still largely irrelevent. Yuna, Ash and Basch are the real protagonist and I don't care what Square intended who it is to be.
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
uhmm, it's kinda ironic when you tell other people to do their research when you clearly haven't. The ending theme in 13 is not composed by nobuo, it was composed by masashi. The theme song you're talking about prob is Kiss Me Goodbye in 12, which is the only song Nobuo composed for the game. About your "reading between the line", i doubt it's because he doesn't want to compose the same song again, it was rather finding new challenge in a new environment, and Square was simply looking for a long term option instead of not being able to convince Nobuo. Proof is he composed the OST for Sakaguchi's new game "The Last Story" and 14 as you mentioned.
Edit: And i actually didn't know what the fuck you were on about composing the same thing again. Nobuo has stated it himself that he has always composed OST for each game with a different style.
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
uhmm, it's kinda ironic when you tell other people to do their research when you clearly haven't. The ending theme in 13 is not composed by nobuo, it was composed by masashi. The theme song you're talking about prob is Kiss Me Goodbye in 12, which is the only song Nobuo composed for the game. About your "reading between the line", i doubt it's because he doesn't want to compose the same song again, it was rather finding new challenge in a new environment, and Square was simply looking for a long term option instead of not being able to convince Nobuo. Proof is he composed the OST for Sakaguchi's new game "The Last Story" and 14 as you mentioned.
Edit: And i actually didn't know what the fuck you were on about composing the same thing again. Nobuo has stated it himself that he has always composed OST for each game with a different style.
Where in his post does he say that Nobuo wrote the ending theme for XIII? lol...
People need to learn to read before launching themselves into internet hero mode....
Watched JP spend an hour or so looking for a medkit earlier =P I have to say I like what I'm seeing so far, voice acting actually isn't too bad and the music's great (except those hybrid orchestral metal pieces ugh)
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
uhmm, it's kinda ironic when you tell other people to do their research when you clearly haven't. The ending theme in 13 is not composed by nobuo, it was composed by masashi. The theme song you're talking about prob is Kiss Me Goodbye in 12, which is the only song Nobuo composed for the game. About your "reading between the line", i doubt it's because he doesn't want to compose the same song again, it was rather finding new challenge in a new environment, and Square was simply looking for a long term option instead of not being able to convince Nobuo. Proof is he composed the OST for Sakaguchi's new game "The Last Story" and 14 as you mentioned.
Edit: And i actually didn't know what the fuck you were on about composing the same thing again. Nobuo has stated it himself that he has always composed OST for each game with a different style.
Where in his post does he say that Nobuo wrote the ending theme for XIII? lol...
People need to learn to read before launching themselves into internet hero mode....
"interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons"
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
uhmm, it's kinda ironic when you tell other people to do their research when you clearly haven't. The ending theme in 13 is not composed by nobuo, it was composed by masashi. The theme song you're talking about prob is Kiss Me Goodbye in 12, which is the only song Nobuo composed for the game. About your "reading between the line", i doubt it's because he doesn't want to compose the same song again, it was rather finding new challenge in a new environment, and Square was simply looking for a long term option instead of not being able to convince Nobuo. Proof is he composed the OST for Sakaguchi's new game "The Last Story" and 14 as you mentioned.
Edit: And i actually didn't know what the fuck you were on about composing the same thing again. Nobuo has stated it himself that he has always composed OST for each game with a different style.
Where in his post does he say that Nobuo wrote the ending theme for XIII? lol...
People need to learn to read before launching themselves into internet hero mode....
"interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons"
Probably (IM-wildly guessing-O) he wants to have control of themes throughout the song, and he feels like his art is best represented through a long journey with contrasts between climaxes and lulling periods, not a 3 minute bang. Possibly better pay for 14 than one song for 13 too, though he most likely has a lot of money at this point.
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
uhmm, it's kinda ironic when you tell other people to do their research when you clearly haven't. The ending theme in 13 is not composed by nobuo, it was composed by masashi. The theme song you're talking about prob is Kiss Me Goodbye in 12, which is the only song Nobuo composed for the game. About your "reading between the line", i doubt it's because he doesn't want to compose the same song again, it was rather finding new challenge in a new environment, and Square was simply looking for a long term option instead of not being able to convince Nobuo. Proof is he composed the OST for Sakaguchi's new game "The Last Story" and 14 as you mentioned.
Edit: And i actually didn't know what the fuck you were on about composing the same thing again. Nobuo has stated it himself that he has always composed OST for each game with a different style.
Where in his post does he say that Nobuo wrote the ending theme for XIII? lol...
People need to learn to read before launching themselves into internet hero mode....
"interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons"
Probably because he wants to have control of themes throughout the song, and he feels like his art is best represented through a long journey with contrasts between climaxes and lulling periods, not a 3 minute bang. Possibly better pay for 14 than one song for 13 too, though he most likely has a lot of money at this point.
I remember in an interview long ago when Nobuo was still in Square, he did mentions that he didn't and never had a choice in composing music for what titles. Basically Square give him the script, and it's up to him to compose apropriate songs, though some of the scene has to be changed to match the song (that shows how baller Nobuo is). So Nobuo never had a choice in terms of choosing games to compose. That's why he said he enjoy composing music for IX the most because Sakaguchi said he can do what the hell he wants. So it's false that Nobuo chose to compose for 14, but it was rather Square ask Nobuo and he agreed to do it (Since he's a freelancer now).
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
uhmm, it's kinda ironic when you tell other people to do their research when you clearly haven't. The ending theme in 13 is not composed by nobuo, it was composed by masashi. The theme song you're talking about prob is Kiss Me Goodbye in 12, which is the only song Nobuo composed for the game. About your "reading between the line", i doubt it's because he doesn't want to compose the same song again, it was rather finding new challenge in a new environment, and Square was simply looking for a long term option instead of not being able to convince Nobuo. Proof is he composed the OST for Sakaguchi's new game "The Last Story" and 14 as you mentioned.
Edit: And i actually didn't know what the fuck you were on about composing the same thing again. Nobuo has stated it himself that he has always composed OST for each game with a different style.
Where in his post does he say that Nobuo wrote the ending theme for XIII? lol...
People need to learn to read before launching themselves into internet hero mode....
"interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons"
Probably because he wants to have control of themes throughout the song, and he feels like his art is best represented through a long journey with contrasts between climaxes and lulling periods, not a 3 minute bang. Possibly better pay for 14 than one song for 13 too, though he most likely has a lot of money at this point.
I remember in an interview long ago when Nobuo was still in Square, he did mentions that he didn't and never had a choice in composing music for what titles. Basically Square give him the script, and it's up to him to compose apropriate songs, though some of the scene has to be changed to match the song (that shows how baller Nobuo is). So Nobuo never had a choice in terms of choosing games to compose. That's why he said he enjoy composing music for IX the most because Sakaguchi said he can do what the hell he wants. So it's false that Nobuo chose to compose for 14, but it was rather Square ask Nobuo and he agreed to do it (Since he's a freelancer now).
Ahh icic, added an edit to clear up that my post was more of a guess than an informed opinion lol >_<
On February 05 2012 02:07 ToT)OjKa( wrote: Currently watching JP's videos.
Does look pretty good. Kind of reminds me that 13 was kinda good. Good battle system, item/customisation and it just looks nice to play.
Maaaaaaaaybe I'll buy 13-2
If you thought 13 was kinda good your gonna like this game I'm not to far into the story, which is the most important thing for me in FF games, but it has potential and is good so far.
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
RIP my personal favourite and inspiring music of pre-FF 8 Nobuo. Seriously, after 8 all of them sounded shittier to me, not many songs that I will always remember by. Oh well, time to stalk Nobuo and see what he has made so far outside FF :D
Sorry I used the Dissidia track cus I slightly like modernization better. But it was legendary hearing it from its original soundtrack.
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
uhmm, it's kinda ironic when you tell other people to do their research when you clearly haven't. The ending theme in 13 is not composed by nobuo, it was composed by masashi. The theme song you're talking about prob is Kiss Me Goodbye in 12, which is the only song Nobuo composed for the game. About your "reading between the line", i doubt it's because he doesn't want to compose the same song again, it was rather finding new challenge in a new environment, and Square was simply looking for a long term option instead of not being able to convince Nobuo. Proof is he composed the OST for Sakaguchi's new game "The Last Story" and 14 as you mentioned.
Edit: And i actually didn't know what the fuck you were on about composing the same thing again. Nobuo has stated it himself that he has always composed OST for each game with a different style.
Where in his post does he say that Nobuo wrote the ending theme for XIII? lol...
People need to learn to read before launching themselves into internet hero mode....
"interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons"
Exactly. Where does he say end theme?
Not to mention that an argument could be made that when he says "...as opposed to just the single main theme...." he is saying he chose to "do all of 14 instead of just the main theme for 13", which would make sense considering, prior to XIV, the last time Uematsu did the whole score for an FF game was IX.
I just have to put my 2 cents on having played this thoroughly since the day it came out and beating it.
The story is what you expect being a sequel to XIII. If you didn't like XIII, you won't like XIII-2.
The combat is... interesting. Either creatures kill you/your party member/monster in one hit, forcing you to spam Pheonix Down/Raise on them, or you just roll straight over them. In XIII, I had parts where I genuinely got stuck for a bit until I figured something out. (The Odin fight comes to mind predominantly...) However, in XIII-2, I did not get stuck as the only creatures that really killed me completely were just random encounters that hit really hard. At no boss encounter did I get stuck. As has been pointed out, once you break a certain point you can roll right over the whole game with COM/RAV/RAV, with maybe SEN/MED/MED and SYN/MED/MED for bosses. You only need those 3 paradigms the whole time... I never once used SAB and I even tried that out in XIII. I don't even know if it's any good in this one, I didn't even unlock it or use a monster with it.
The progression.. I like the layout of Historia Crux and the time travel part but it seems lazy that there are only a few locales and those are repeated in different periods (Yassif Maschas....) The Crystarium... just sucks compared to XIII. I actually liked it in XIII but in this game I don't have to make any choice beyond "make this class stronger". I don't get to pick smaller branches or anything of the sort. Equipment is the same as before so I can't complain there.
The monster control system seems lazy. So there are only 2 characters I can control and have any influence on... I know of another game that did the same thing in its sequel, Tales of Symphonia. The first one was amazing... the sequel was not quite as much, because they tried to be innovative and introduce a monster taming system. Now I don't mean to say that the monster system is the downfall of either game, as it's still interesting and both Tales and FF13-2 are still good games, it's just that I wanted more character depth and I get 0 of that from monsters.
Overall I still liked it but it's not the thing I wanted to return FF to what it once was. And I might be looking through rose-colored glasses, but I still play older FFs regularly either on emulator, or the ones I still own, and I've played them all and still do.
On February 01 2012 17:36 Atreides wrote: My only real complaint so far is the soundtrack. Too much damn vocals wtf...
My opinion on story stuff (no game spoilers its just kind of an anti-rant to the VERY common rants like the post above me) + Show Spoiler +
First off, its much harder to write a good story for an adult than for a kid. This is in my opinion the primary reason for so much nostalgia towards older games. I've played most of them and I honestly don't think that as a whole the story writing was vastly better 10-15 years ago. Some were better some were worse. Probably they were somewhat better on average I guess. The thing is, if you want plot and character development there are much better mediums than video games. I also find it pretty laughable to try to judge the story of a game from the first hour or two of gameplay... like how does that make sense. Just don't do that, I will never think too much of someone who criticizes a game they have never even played out. (I mean some games are so bad you dont finish, but you know what I mean.) Second, in this particular case there is virtually no starting character development because its a sequel; also the one new character is kind of purposely vague but I think they are doing ok job of developing him. (You can complain that FFXIII had a bad story/character development too I suppose, personally I thought it was ok. Pretty weak story and I hated a couple of the characters but I loved the game.) Finally, from format alone the story of this game is sort of cool. I am nowhere close to finishing it so I can't comment overall.
I am not saying its a great story. I've played 6 hours of it. This is more of a general response to the oh so common nostalgia rants.
But really, I read books (lots of them) for great stories/plots/character developments. Pretty graphics are a HUGE part of singleplayer games to me. Unfortunately so are soundtracks and I am not happy with this one. Its great whenever there are no vocals....
P.S. So far every time you are re-introduced to a character from FFXIII they are significantly improved haha.
Seriously the soundtrack though..... la la la... la laaa.... la la la la la for like the last 30 mins I've had the game chilling while I was on my computer. wtf.
If you don't want to read another "rant" don't click this one. Personally I don't think it's a rant as much as an upset fan watching the downfall of a series once great. I don't want to see gaming go backwards in time, quite the contrary. I want to see it progress and evolve (which maybe it has but in my opinion in a poor direction) This is all my opinion, I could be COMPLETELY and utterly wrong. If I am biased and this is all just crazy ranting you let me know. TL;DR at bottom.
Don't get me wrong I do long for games of the old and I love nostalgia. My complaints of FF13 and FF13-2 are not in any way me wanting them to go back to formulas of the past. My complaints are shit storytelling and a larger focus in visual improvements while taking steps backwards everywhere else. (I understand video games are not nearly the best medium for storytelling, but I happen to love the combination of strategy, storytelling, and dexterity. It's engaging and fun!
1. Pixar understands exactly how to establish characters and make the audience care for them. I'm not saying everything they have done is a master piece but UP as well as the uh robot. These movies quickly and effectively establish back story and tug at the audiences heartstrings through a COMBINATION of visual cues, music, and sometimes dialogue. They use everything in concert to draw you into the experience. For some reason Nobuo and a more experienced/successful Director were excluded from 13 and 13-2's development. Huge mistake in my opinion. Nobuo has managed to pull constant success out of his wazoo and I find many of his songs powerful. (Final Fantasy Distant Worlds is a must buy album for Nobuo/ff Music fans) The director is what brings everything together into a cohesive experience, how could you let anyone but the finest take the reigns on a project of such longevity and success? FF 13 and 13-2 (from what I've seen of 2) have elements of a great game but never all at the same time. It's a shame because Square Enix has the resources and capability to make nearly whatever they want within the limitations of the ps3/xbox 360.
Judging the story - Now if you watched the previews and trailers/sneak peaks there is some continuity, you understand that Lightning gets pulled into this alternate dimension somehow. However during the intro you see none of this. Now this isn't to say that you have to tell a story in the sense of ABC. Movies like Memento show how you can escape the traditional formula and come up with something very special. That being said the beginning of ff 13-2 was very jarring. I remember the ending of 13 and where the plot was.Coming into 13-2 I'm thinking what the hell is Lightning wearing, where the hell is she, why is such a strong and independent character praising some god or perished mortal (etro or something?) when she relies on and compliments almost noone? How much time has passed? WHAT THE FUCK IS SHE WEARING? The questions in my mind were endless and all that was provided was more confusion.
No I do not expect you to pull the end of ff 13 and make it start off right there in ff 13 2. I do expect there to be some kind of establishment of the plot besides ALL OUT WAR BECAUSE SOME (strange looking character design) DUDES SISTER/DAUGHTER/LOVER DIED AND NOW HE HAS TO END ALL EXISTANCE (with chaos? looool)!? Really? Ok great so there's some kind of war and the two realms are merging or something. Oh and Serah randomly changes costumes into the sexually inviting schoolgirl/80's side hairdoo. To me it just continues to go downhill in confusion. I'm told it gets better, but so what? Why start off in a rut you have to dig yourself out of? The starting was cheesy and confusing.
Also I invite you to compare the first trilogy of starwars to the prequel. In an amazing and pretty lulzy review
red letter media mentions how much clutter George Lucas starts throwing into every frame. Instead of having the characters and whatever is pertinent to a shot MORE characters are crammed in with MORE explosions with MORE lightsabers. See where I'm going with this? I'm not saying other FF's are perfect. I'm just saying that these ones are going in a poor direction (I think) Some of the visuals in the intro battle with the headband dude were interesting but overall I just thought there were too many explosions or falling buildings or transformers (er I mean gestalts? I think?) onscreen. More stuff does not = better. Although I really like Bahamut in all his incarnations, Why does he suddenly belong to Chaos dude? Is this some kind of impliciation there is a connection between him and fang? These questions continue to arise when doing a direct sequel like this and I just can't see it ending up well. Probably going to be like lost, questions till the end then cop out answer. God did it.
Back on track dammit! I bet that FF 13 and 13-2 have decent plots. Not amazing by any means but decent enough. That being said your plot could be AMAZINGLY well crafted but if your presntation is shit you can't really convey it to your audience can you? In 13 the biggest problems to me were the linear nature of environments as well as the jarring switches from character duo's. It bounced all over the place like a camera man with add and a portal gun. Overall I really loved the idea of FF 13's plot, after I pieced it together I had fun sitting down and pondering. I had more fun thinking about it in my head AFTER the game then I did seeing it unfold IN game. Something is wrong there. If this is what people want, then maybe I am some gaming dinosaur and I should move on. I accept that is a possibility and have no problem with that. I'm just sad that I thought the longer you practice a craft the better you get at it. To me Square Enix is a dying old dog and someone else (perhaps bioware?) will have to take up the mantle of single player storytelling champ.
Last whine is about gameplay. The new way of controlling characters is automated. It's boring and doesn't actually give you any control. You click a defensive mode and HOPE you're characters cast the right spell in the right order. You won't know for sure but even then why do you want the combat done for you? Isn't that a part of why we love ff? To me this turns the game into automated cut scenes. I found this particularly painful in 13. I actually found 13 offensive. It broke my heart to see the game fail so hard and when my room mate came home with 13-2 we both knew it was a mistake on her part to buy it (she admitted this).
Finally to address the nostalgia reference. Yes, I love older games. Do I think those games entranced me more because I played them when I was younger? Hell no, I still play them today! I still find them engrossing and their characters touching. I think society in general has become more shallow and a lot of mainstream entertainment to be watered down. Movies suck, games suck, great musicians are pushed aside for top 100 crap music. Am I nostalgic? Yes. Am I nostalgic because I refuse to embrace change and the future? No I welcome change, but not if looks like a mixture of Jersey Shore/transformers and sounds like Lady Gaga I'd rather live like a hermit.
tl;dr
Great plot is nothing without great presentation, ff 13 didn't have it, 13-2 doesn't seem like it has it. Music is integral to these games and evoking emotion, Nobuo didn't do the music. Huge mistake. Games are meant to be played and 13/13-2 seem more and more automated. This is weird and awkward. I'll watch a movie if I want to sit back and do nothing. I HATE YOU SQUARE ENIX GIVE ME BACK SQUARESOFT! Change is important for growth but the growth I've seen lately is cancerous.
just one point -
"for some reason nobuo was excluded" and not including him was a "huge mistake"? nobuo left squaresoft 7 years ago to start freelancing because he wanted to spend more time working on other stuff besides FF music. OR, if you read between the lines: he was starting to get tired of being forced by square enix to write the same shit over and over; if you pay close attention to the music the degradation in quality actually shows more and more in every game starting with FF7. 11 was the last game he wrote for as an employee of square, and even then he was heavily relying on his two subordinates. (interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons.)
so either way squareenix loses on this front - either they blow a lot of time and money trying to convince nobuo to come back for the "big titles" that he might not even want to work on (and thus make shitty music), or they get someone else with a different style and musical direction that no one likes just because he's not nobuo, even if he does show promise. tbh masashi hamauzu's work falls a bit short of expectation now, but his work does have some potential.
so, do your research before you say something silly like "why couldn't they have gotten nobuo?" the short answer is, he didn't want to.
uhmm, it's kinda ironic when you tell other people to do their research when you clearly haven't. The ending theme in 13 is not composed by nobuo, it was composed by masashi. The theme song you're talking about prob is Kiss Me Goodbye in 12, which is the only song Nobuo composed for the game. About your "reading between the line", i doubt it's because he doesn't want to compose the same song again, it was rather finding new challenge in a new environment, and Square was simply looking for a long term option instead of not being able to convince Nobuo. Proof is he composed the OST for Sakaguchi's new game "The Last Story" and 14 as you mentioned.
Edit: And i actually didn't know what the fuck you were on about composing the same thing again. Nobuo has stated it himself that he has always composed OST for each game with a different style.
Where in his post does he say that Nobuo wrote the ending theme for XIII? lol...
People need to learn to read before launching themselves into internet hero mode....
"interestingly enough, he chose writing the full score for 14 as opposed to just the single main theme for 13, for whatever reasons"
Exactly. Where does he say end theme?
Not to mention that an argument could be made that when he says "...as opposed to just the single main theme...." he is saying he chose to "do all of 14 instead of just the main theme for 13", which would make sense considering, prior to XIV, the last time Uematsu did the whole score for an FF game was IX.
If you have actually played both 12 and 13, you should know what he meant by that, no need for nitpicking words.
On February 06 2012 13:59 Soft`Soap wrote: wow wow wow hold the phone if we're going to get into the best final fantasy songs FF VI has the best soundtrack- HANDS DOWN
I also loved the Ghost Train. But I think Final Fantasy 9 had the best music of the Final Fantasy series. This song in particular sticks out to me. Open it in a new tab, please, and let it play all the way through.
Played it pretty much all weekend and so far, my only real complaint is how easy the game is. Seriously, I do like 75% of the fights with 3 COM mass aoe kill everything in 5-10 seconds. That's a bit disappointing considering XIII was perfect on that point. Other than that, game is really cool, loving everything else, even the music (that metal version of the Chocobo song kicks ass!). I just hope that the game gets harder towards the end.
I thought that I was going to hate the soundtrack but they did a marvelous job. One of the best game sound tracks I've heard, especially in the past 5 years.
Sick post <3 The XIII boss battle theme is also imo the best boss theme of the serie, with the XII battle theme which was great. It really gives chills, sick post.
The trailer just reminded me so vividly why I stopped playing FFXIII 30 hours in... Why, Square Enix, why not just make japanese audio dlc for xbox or something... I mean, I want to love your games but you make it so hard :'(
Seriously, fuck american dubs on japanese games...
I really cannot wait until Final Fantasy Versus comes out...it looks like its going to be SO fucking bad ass. Although 13 wasn't bad per se, it was just so ridiculously long. I just couldn't commit because if I remember correctly, SC2 had just come out.
I did like the battle system of 13 though.
EDIT: Yeah I agree, the English dubs are usually so bad compared to the Japanese ones. I love it when the game gives me the option of listening to the Japanese. Ever since I was a little kid who was into Dragon Ball, I've found the Japanese voice acting to be totally superior. Its kind of like listening to the Korean language versions of the GSL matches...theres just something about the way they do it that is just so much more passionate, so much more life. The English translation of the Japanese was so bad because they had to choose these totally kindergarten word choices when they were swearing in the original Japanese. For instance, a close friend would be killed by some evil maniac only to have the character witnessing it say, "Darn you!"
On February 06 2012 13:59 Soft`Soap wrote: wow wow wow hold the phone if we're going to get into the best final fantasy songs FF VI has the best soundtrack- HANDS DOWN
My 3 fav songs from in there, but there are a lot of other good ones like the ghost train or w.e
I picked this up this past weekend and have put in some hours. So far, I love the game. I think they fixed a lot of the problems people had with 13. One aspect I especially like is the current incarnation of the Crystarium. First off, it's not level-locked like in 13. If you want to grind out enough xp to pick up your favorite skill, you can, whenever you feel like it. Second, there are major branching points in terms of character development, based on what you pick up with your Crystarium expansion bonuses. You can snag extra ATB bars early on for burst and more actions, open new roles, or make your existing role bonuses stronger. Finally, and I didn't even realize this until about 3 hours in, your choices at each node affect your character's future. There are little crystals and big crystals. When you use the big crystals, you get whatever is coming in the role progression selected, but you also get a bonus based on the role. Little crystals just give you the normal role progression bonus or skill. Big crystals to your Ravager advancement yield an extra bonus to magic. If you spend a big crystal on Commando instead, you get an extra bonus to strength. So if you save all your big crystals for Ravager advancement, and use the little ones on Com/Sen, you'll end up with a capable magic specialist. If you instead power straight through the Ravager tree, you'll pick up your skills sooner, but as you flesh out the other roles (big crystals included) your stats will shift a little towards strength and hp.
I like the monster system too. Their crystarium is fun, again because you get different results based on how you get to the end of the tree. Spend potent crystals and you'll get a well-rounded stat boost. Spend mana crystals and you'll get a more magic-focused critter. Early on, your selections are limited, so you'll probably end up dumping whatever you can find into your critters, but I can see myself coming back later to create all kinds of focused critters. Infusion is interesting too, since it gives such a wide variety of finished products. You can boost specific resistances, stats, pick up key abilities, etc.
Well into the post game, and so I'm comfortable sharing my review. Hope it's helpful to those on the fence, and I'm always done for some more discussion!
The second attempt to append the '-2' to a Final Fantasy title launches in a fashion even more ridiculous than what fans may remember of Square's first stab at the idea. Instead of Final Fantasy X-2's summoner turned pop star, however, Final Fantasy XIII-2 sings to a more serious opening tune. A spectacular sequence of CGI and admirably done interactive action scenes -- tightly woven around composer Masashi Hamauzu's yearning violin and orchestra -- reacquaints players with Lightning, the heroine of their previous adventure. But she's a different Lightning, a woman now adorned with plate armor, a shield, and a cloak of feathers draping at her side -- a divine soldier of sorts. It would seem her ending was not the happy one everyone had witnessed before the credits rolled. Instead she faces a new foe, a purple haired man (to rival her pink) who expresses a grim wish for destruction, clashing swords on the outskirts of the universe.
Cinematic action sequences offer intense and potentially branching outcomes in a handful of the game's more epic encounters.
Awakened by visions of this supernatural confrontation, Serah -- Lightning's younger sister and Snow's fiancé, should players recall -- finds her quiet coastal village suddenly under siege by monsters from another time period. A new friend appears amongst the confusion, a young man by the name of Noel Kreiss. He carries a warning from an apocalyptic future that he himself is all too familiar with, and a plea for help from Lightning in trying to save it. As they speak, the timeline of the world is turning onto itself, creating paradoxes (contradictions) in various time periods. A series of time gates also appear, devices Serah and Noel must use to steer the world away from destruction.
The two characters have surprisingly approachable personalities, are well voiced, and keep the player on track with a story full of silly pseudoscience terminology. Sometimes the game feels like it's dumbing down its own plot a bit too heavily in this regard, spelling out and repeating concepts several times over (an excellent drinking game). Most of the cutscenes then, do end up being elementary back and forth conversations between Serah and Noel, lacking much action until the ending segments. It still proceeds at an interesting pace, taking a well mannered approach by allowing players to select occasional dialogue choices to pursue information that puzzles them.
An older Hope proves to be a central cameo in XIII-2, and he earns the role.
The sappy nature of Final Fantasy is all still there, of course, the best and the worst of it. Serah is quite sincere in a warm way, and Noel's cheesy, Tom Cruise like aura can easily bring out the occasional smirk. But unfortunately, eyes will surely roll to the ceiling whenever Lightning speaks, often having to chime in with a solemn monologue at the end of each scene, narrating from the beyond in some awful kind of poetry. It's an overdone pep talk of not giving up hope, leaving the past behind, and moving forward that the game won't stop repeating; even in the vocals of some poppy music tracks for certain environments.
Fielding the message much more gracefully is the universe itself, with XIII-2 rserving a respectable piece of its predecessor's beautiful presentation. The game begins in the beachside town of New Bodhum, a place that warmly conveys the efforts of mankind to recreate the lives and memories they had within Cocoon, all while adapting to hardships of the real world. The image of Cocoon held up by Vanille and Fang's crystal pillar in the night sky makes an excellent visual backdrop here, a reminder of the past, and a valuable lesson to the future. What follows is one of Square's most open-ended entries to the Final Fantasy franchise, a game lovingly built to give players unprecedented access to a world they had only scraped the surface of before.
Few areas live up to the visual bar raised by XIII, but the astonishing city of Academia stands above all the rest.
Serah and Noel will quickly leave the New Bodhum of the year 3 AF, and revisit locales of the game's predecessor, many of them fully re-imagined and changed by the flow of time. The experiences therein are both nostalgic and wholesome, a memoir and playground for those returning. Players will swing vine to vine through the Sunleth Waterscape, return to the Archelyte Steppe when it was first inhabited by nomadic hunters, and revisit areas that still carry the emotional weight from the events of XIII -- with frequent nods to its original soundtrack. And there are new areas to see as well, some dark and apocalyptic, others teeming with life and civilization. In one such optimistic timeline is the existence Academia, a sprawling futuristic city that has to be Final Fantasy XIII-2's crowning artistic achievement for its expansiveness and absurd attention to detail.
Clumsily exiting each time gate, Serah and Noel casually wipe the dirt off their knees before setting out to solve the paradox of each area -- finding what doesn't belong. But sometimes there are missing items that should belong, and thus the premise for XIII-2's grand easter egg hunt is set. Serah's magical sidekick, Mog, is the key to finding these items of interest; devices or treasure phased out of the current timeline. They are recognizable by their skirting level of transparent camouflage, lining the nooks and crannies of all environments. It's a shameless addiction, where coming across hidden treasure often by accident is always a welcome surprise, and motivation to keep the eyes squinted. Mog will light up with a pinkish glow if he senses anything nearby, and he'll also leap into Serah's arms as a nifty bow-sword when enemies suddenly appear. Random encounters are back.
Noel gives Mog a good toss to some hard to reach treasure. Hearing the little guy cry never gets old.
Yes, back and exceptionally executed, offering a simple solution to the frustrating instant battle screens that have sometimes haunted RPGs of the past. Enemies are instead seen before being engaged, surrounding Serah and Noel but giving them ample time to weigh options. A timer appears, and this prompts an opportunity to enter the battle screen with a pre-emptive strike, and also one to simply keep running until the aggressors are left behind. The first strike opportunity proves invaluable, as achieving the 5 star battle performance rating actually has meaning in XIII-2, yielding higher drop rates for both normal and rare loot to players who perform well in combat. And now that players can both see and run away from most enemies, it makes seeking and capturing ones not already owned a painless affair.
Monster hunting is one of the biggest new pulls to the XIII universe, and XIII-2's most rewarding aspect. Practically anything encountered in the game -- from tiny gooey flan creatures, to a menacing behemoth, to a giant cactuar creature -- is useable as a 3rd wheel to Serah and Noel's battle party. Obtaining one is as simple as defeating it and hoping it goes into inventory, but finding personal favorites and rarities is where the fun lies; each monster specializing under a certain role players of XIII will be most familiar with. A creature's primary use may also be as fodder for infusion, essentially letting one monster consume another for its abilities -- a powerful tool for those who delve more deeply. Lastly, each creature also has its own unique feral link ability, a powerful skill that can turn the tide of tight battles, reminiscent the character overdrives of Final Fantasy X.
A shallow but harmless throwback to Final Fantasy VII, captured chocbos can be raced for useful prizes
And so the combat is of the same handsome design of its predecessor's, and with monsters simply being a stand-in for a 3rd human member, it's easy to get right back on track. The combat is again structured around building the gauge bars above enemies until they Stagger, creating an exciting opportunity to deal maximum damage. With reactionary precision, players are to change their party between offensive paradigms to build the gauges, while mitigating damage from real-time attacks by switching to a more defensive approach. Keeping the offense alive and the party healthy is a potentially intense affair players of Final Fantasy XIII need not be reminded of, nor of its visual splendor. XIII-2 also manages to fix the slumping endurance encounters of the past with quicker battles and a faster introduction to the fully working system. But it also introduces new problems, carrying itself through a painfully easy plot line.
The new paradigm tuning allows players to slightly manipulate the A.I. more to their liking.
This arises from the fact that Final Fantasy XIII-2 is extremely fragile with its open approach to progression. The Crystarium does indeed return as a model to pour experience points into, and perhaps its new interpretation will initially feel more rewarding than XIII's. But It is all too abusable this time around, and while farming a powerful party panders to the enjoyment of certain RPG gamers, it shouldn't be so simple to achieve by complete accident.
Exorbitant amounts of experience points simply roll in, especially if a player -- even for a moment -- gives into the temptation of additional monster hunting and sidequests. The Crsyatirum then offers paths for characters to take at each level -- a choice to open up a tree for another role (i.e. Sentinel), to add another attack to the time gauge, or to expand accessory capacity -- but experienced RPG players will logically step back and see right through the charade. Expanding to more roles early on is flatly unintelligent given that monsters collected can fill the gaps for a missing Saboteur, Synergist, etc... Focusing on 1-2 roles before harnessing all 5 will instead lead to a powerful group early on, and why pursue the increased accessory capacity when the crucial ones don't appear until the game's final portions?
Still, taking an alternate time gate at several points of the game can -- unbeknownst to the player -- lead to a path where enemies suddenly begin scrubbing health bars clean. But the challenge spikes are much less apparent compared to the sudden prolonged lulls in difficulty for much of the game's core 25 hours. If approached with the logical mentality as described above -- especially if having found a monster who's Crystarium peaks early to powerful levels -- the game presents an inclination to sit on offensive paradigms with Ravagers and Commandos for much of its entirety. This is where XIII had an emotionally charged narrative to accompany its drier battle segments, a distraction XIII-2 pursues with unimpressive results.
The saving grace of many of the game's easier battles is their brevity, as compared to the more drawn out affairs of Final Fantasy XIII.
Bosses in between the confrontations with the game's purple haired antagonist, Caius, pose no relevance to the characters by comparison. A giant paradoxical colossus lashes out of thin air; half of its body trapped in another dimension. The paradox of another time period somehow lies in the jaws of a dragon. These enemies are often of impressive scale, but they have no words to say, no questions to raise, and the music accompanying them is equally less than sincere. Whether met with a powerful Crystarium and steamrolled over, or met with a weaker party and challenged considerably -- players will find these central encounters quite forgettable.
Caius alone leads XIII-2 to an ending with a string of impressive scenes, demanding fights, and powerful lines of dialogue -- but somewhere along the way the game completely forgot to develop his character, or did it so dimly it was difficult to appreciate. His motivations seem tied to Yuehl, a soft spoken doll-like girl that no really ever gets to know. And while most will point to XIII-2's cliffhanger ending as reason for this ultimately disappointing campaign -- raising more questions than it answers -- it's the fact the game ends based upon such a ridiculous guise of motives that no one can possibly relate to it. There is no message this time around, nothing to walk away with.
Caius and Yuehl are of paramount significance to the events in XIII-2, but lend no emotional punch.
The ending to Final Fantasy XIII contained a contradiction; it broke the rules. But it rang true to the game's overarching theme of the infinite strength of the human spirit, with characters that declared they would contradict all the rules -- a touching note to end on. Final Fantasy XIII-2 then desperately jumps through fanatical loops in trying to dismantle the respectable conclusion of another game, and to a point of near hilarity. Savvy followers may even have questions of smaller magnitude, such as why everyone is suddenly capable of using magic. Well they just can, says the game's datalog. Why didn't Square just make Lightning a pop singer and call it a day?
But it's naïve to say it all ends there, and unfair to claim that Final Fantasy XIII-2 isn't for the fans. It's not even half complete when the credits roll, and a plethora of content still waits untapped. It's a monster collector's favorite hunting spot, a trailblazer's backpack of spoils, and a completionist's paradise. Cameos and salutes to older games abound, challenges to truly test those thirsty for battle await, and powerful skills and items lie in hiding -- this is a gamer's game, and it's damn well appreciated.
On February 07 2012 04:58 nanoscorp wrote: I picked this up this past weekend and have put in some hours. So far, I love the game. I think they fixed a lot of the problems people had with 13. One aspect I especially like is the current incarnation of the Crystarium. First off, it's not level-locked like in 13. If you want to grind out enough xp to pick up your favorite skill, you can, whenever you feel like it. Second, there are major branching points in terms of character development, based on what you pick up with your Crystarium expansion bonuses. You can snag extra ATB bars early on for burst and more actions, open new roles, or make your existing role bonuses stronger. Finally, and I didn't even realize this until about 3 hours in, your choices at each node affect your character's future. There are little crystals and big crystals. When you use the big crystals, you get whatever is coming in the role progression selected, but you also get a bonus based on the role. Little crystals just give you the normal role progression bonus or skill. Big crystals to your Ravager advancement yield an extra bonus to magic. If you spend a big crystal on Commando instead, you get an extra bonus to strength. So if you save all your big crystals for Ravager advancement, and use the little ones on Com/Sen, you'll end up with a capable magic specialist. If you instead power straight through the Ravager tree, you'll pick up your skills sooner, but as you flesh out the other roles (big crystals included) your stats will shift a little towards strength and hp.
I like the monster system too. Their crystarium is fun, again because you get different results based on how you get to the end of the tree. Spend potent crystals and you'll get a well-rounded stat boost. Spend mana crystals and you'll get a more magic-focused critter. Early on, your selections are limited, so you'll probably end up dumping whatever you can find into your critters, but I can see myself coming back later to create all kinds of focused critters. Infusion is interesting too, since it gives such a wide variety of finished products. You can boost specific resistances, stats, pick up key abilities, etc.
Thanks for explaining this. I actually thought the Crystarium system is a step back from how it was in 13, at least the UI for it. Just pretty confusing overall and I'm never sure what I'm really building towards, and until this post didn't know that it was that open.
Hmm, this game is just a complete head fuck, and sorry but there is going to be some **spoilers**.
I find it impossible to stay on the track of the story and make progress, something that I never once had a problem with in FF13. I *think* i'm at Episode 4 or 5? Just got to Academia 4XX AF after Hope and Alyssa asked me to gather the Graviton Cores. I got 4 of them... but the others are in timelines I am yet to unlock and I have 0 artefacts to open anywhere new up. The last gate I opened sent me to Veiled Peaks to rescue the Blitz Squad, but shortly after arriving there I was informed that the survivors have been spread around the timeline due to the paradox effect... -_-
I seriously have no clue on how to progress the story? Do I literally have to go round searching for Wild Artefacts until I miraculously open the correct gate and enter an area that has a Graviton Core on it!? My next step is to go and buy the Chaos Crystal from Serendipity at the casino so I can get the paradox weapon from Hope. I have around 3k casino coins and 200k Gil so I don't mind shelling out for it (even if there probably is a way to obtain it for free later, which I presume there will be).
Anyway, if you read this and sympathize with where I am and how stuck I am... throw some info my way!
I'm just going to briefly make a post because I'm tired.
13-2 is a lot better than 13 quite away. At the start I thought Noel was a bit gay, "You have to go through me first!" (like, why would he say that? honestly...) but he seems alright. I like making Serah say stupid stuff. I was in the tower and I wanted to throw moogle because he hadn't had a throw in awhile. Accidentally threw him all the way down through the tower...poor guy. He did get my an Orange Bowtie though, which I have now equipped on Dragoon (I may name him Geoffrey if it's available.
Anyway, I'm finding it a little hard to keep playing for lengths at a time. Once again, everything is TOOOOO EAAAAAASY. Normal mobs die faster than the time it takes to load them and boss fights at the moment really aren't that hard. I'm ~15 hours in I think and I just wreck shit so hard, especially now that I'm using a Dragoon WHO FUCKING BLOWS SHIT UP. I wish they disabled auto battle because there just isn't much reason to not use it. Trash mobs die in ~5 secs so there's no point "planning" the battle and just everything auto battle does is just the right move. Synergists are just 100% automated because while you may want to give your character a certain buff or two, you might as well wait 5 seconds and they'll have all the buffs you have. Saboteur I don't really auto because I don't give a shit about poison or wound. Deprotect, Deshell and Imperil are all you need to absolutely obliterate anything - so far I guess.
I like the monsters but I don't see any reason to change them around. I was using Cait, Gremlin and Pulse Knight (med/rav/sen) but Cait is so shit that I just got Serah some medic skills and replaced Cait with DRAGOOOOON THE DESTROYER. And again, there doesn't seem much point because infusing monsters to stack the abilities is obviously the best thing to do and despite using Gremlin for most of the game, he just wrecks shit and all I need to do is get him all the elemental abilities and he becomes Merlin (with orange and white hat of course).
I do enjoy it but spending time dredging around the time lines when quite a few don't really have a good end point to them (like a boss) is kinda wearing me down. Too many trash mobs cluttering up the place.
Think I'll spend my money training a chocobo, I had two races so far, first one I lost bad and the second I was winning then lost bad.
How dare none of you include Theme of Love from FF 4. So damn depressing......yet so soothing...
But if we had to say which one had the best all around music, I would have to say 6. 6 in general had the most epic music coming from someone who played every single one except 11 and 14. But after 6, there just so many good song from each series that it hard to compare. I think 9 was really good too because that was the first time they let Nobuo go do w/e the fuck he want. Before, he was pretty constrain but 9 was when he was finally able to be free and do w/e he wants.
Worst would probably be 13-2...lol the Charice was so.....weak for being the main theme. Big failure of a choice there imo it was no Zanarkan, or something along that line but it not all bad. It still had alot of really good song just that it probably down the lower tier in the chart but it still quiet good.
still, they have captured my interest enough for a 13-3 so they did something right i guess.
and personally i hated most of the music. the historia crux theme drove me insane by the end and the battle themes were generally quite lame in comparison to 13's
overall it was better than i thought it was going to be at least. this whole 'if you change the future you change the past' shit is kind of silly though and i still dont really understand what theyre TRYING to get at.
On February 06 2012 19:27 ins(out)side wrote: EDIT: Yeah I agree, the English dubs are usually so bad compared to the Japanese ones. I love it when the game gives me the option of listening to the Japanese. Ever since I was a little kid who was into Dragon Ball, I've found the Japanese voice acting to be totally superior. Its kind of like listening to the Korean language versions of the GSL matches...theres just something about the way they do it that is just so much more passionate, so much more life. The English translation of the Japanese was so bad because they had to choose these totally kindergarten word choices when they were swearing in the original Japanese. For instance, a close friend would be killed by some evil maniac only to have the character witnessing it say, "Darn you!"
You seriously need to watch some shows that aren't targeted at kids...or at least watch them on actual DVDs, instead of the Cartoon Network's kiddy hours.
And Dragon Ball was one of those "srs bsns" deals. If you could shut your brain off and not question every stupid moment, then an audio track that took everything 100% seriously probably works just fine. Otherwise, the English Dub did its best to make light of completely ludicrous situations.
On February 13 2012 14:53 klops wrote: it wasn't terrible but it wasn't amazing either
still, they have captured my interest enough for a 13-3 so they did something right i guess.
and personally i hated most of the music. the historia crux theme drove me insane by the end and the battle themes were generally quite lame in comparison to 13's
overall it was better than i thought it was going to be at least. this whole 'if you change the future you change the past' shit is kind of silly though and i still dont really understand what theyre TRYING to get at.
I agree lol but you gotta take into consideration that this is the first final fantasy that probably utilized the most song WITH vocal in any final fantasy series. It an interesting twist and I though I wouldnt like it but I came to like it quiet a bit. These 3 are probably my favorite and give me hope that composer will be able to utilize a good mix of vocals and none vocals in the future.
XIII relied on a lot vocals too, and did a stunning job with them.
I didn't like a few of XIII-2's attempt at contemporary tracks, but I agree some of the vocal tracks were quite nice, and to me the soundtrack as a whole is irrefutably great.
On February 06 2012 14:48 Merany wrote: Played it pretty much all weekend and so far, my only real complaint is how easy the game is. Seriously, I do like 75% of the fights with 3 COM mass aoe kill everything in 5-10 seconds. That's a bit disappointing considering XIII was perfect on that point. Other than that, game is really cool, loving everything else, even the music (that metal version of the Chocobo song kicks ass!). I just hope that the game gets harder towards the end.
The game is admitedly pretty easy for most of the way through. Watch out for the final episode, especially if you don't grind. Heh heh heh.
Question, I totally failed to google this somehow but based on the gameplay videos I saw is the amount of max party members in battles 3 (Noel + Serah + monster/DLC/temporary character)? And can you tame all non-boss/humanoid enemies such as Behemoths and Cactuars?
And should I assume Lightning has a really small role compared to Serah and Noel? :I
On February 06 2012 19:27 ins(out)side wrote: EDIT: Yeah I agree, the English dubs are usually so bad compared to the Japanese ones. I love it when the game gives me the option of listening to the Japanese. Ever since I was a little kid who was into Dragon Ball, I've found the Japanese voice acting to be totally superior. Its kind of like listening to the Korean language versions of the GSL matches...theres just something about the way they do it that is just so much more passionate, so much more life. The English translation of the Japanese was so bad because they had to choose these totally kindergarten word choices when they were swearing in the original Japanese. For instance, a close friend would be killed by some evil maniac only to have the character witnessing it say, "Darn you!"
Are you able to switch the Final Fantasy XIII / XIII-2 audio to japanese?
On February 16 2012 02:58 Vaelone wrote: Question, I totally failed to google this somehow but based on the gameplay videos I saw is the amount of max party members in battles 3 (Noel + Serah + monster/DLC/temporary character)? And can you tame all non-boss/humanoid enemies such as Behemoths and Cactuars?
And should I assume Lightning has a really small role compared to Serah and Noel? :I
Yes, whole game (exept beginning ofc) you have 3 members: Serah + Noel + tamed monster. You can tame almost every monster in the game (without main bosses and C'tieh monsters). Including Cactuars and Behemots (hell, im using Behemot myself as Commander - this baby hits like a truck;P)
Lightning is now only a storyline character. You cannot play her.
On February 16 2012 02:58 Vaelone wrote: Question, I totally failed to google this somehow but based on the gameplay videos I saw is the amount of max party members in battles 3 (Noel + Serah + monster/DLC/temporary character)? And can you tame all non-boss/humanoid enemies such as Behemoths and Cactuars?
And should I assume Lightning has a really small role compared to Serah and Noel? :I
Yes, whole game (exept beginning ofc) you have 3 members: Serah + Noel + tamed monster. You can tame almost every monster in the game (without main bosses and C'tieh monsters). Including Cactuars and Behemots (hell, im using Behemot myself as Commander - this baby hits like a truck;P)
Lightning is now only a storyline character. You cannot play her.
She is DLC. She is a SICK ravager. I think she is probably the strongest ravanger in the game. It would make sense since you are paying for her lol but she is sooo good. Although she is technically not the real lightning since she is more like a clone of her, she wont mess up the story line. Behemoth is pretty good but he too big imo and sometime he get hit with AOEs. So I prefer + Show Spoiler +
Twilight Odin as my commando.
On February 16 2012 02:58 Vaelone wrote: Question, I totally failed to google this somehow but based on the gameplay videos I saw is the amount of max party members in battles 3 (Noel + Serah + monster/DLC/temporary character)? And can you tame all non-boss/humanoid enemies such as Behemoths and Cactuars?
And should I assume Lightning has a really small role compared to Serah and Noel? :I
On February 06 2012 19:27 ins(out)side wrote: EDIT: Yeah I agree, the English dubs are usually so bad compared to the Japanese ones. I love it when the game gives me the option of listening to the Japanese. Ever since I was a little kid who was into Dragon Ball, I've found the Japanese voice acting to be totally superior. Its kind of like listening to the Korean language versions of the GSL matches...theres just something about the way they do it that is just so much more passionate, so much more life. The English translation of the Japanese was so bad because they had to choose these totally kindergarten word choices when they were swearing in the original Japanese. For instance, a close friend would be killed by some evil maniac only to have the character witnessing it say, "Darn you!"
Are you able to switch the Final Fantasy XIII / XIII-2 audio to japanese?
I'm fairly sure you need the asia version for XIII-2 and not sure if it's possible at all for XIII.
8.5/10, pretty damn good (WAY better than FFXIII), but definitely not the same as FFIV-X were for me.. I think a lot of that actually has to do with the music. The music, by Final Fantasy standards, is boring as all hell and does not add to the game at all :/
Maybe it's the nostalgia factor and the fact I was younger, but with FFIV-X I found myself wanting to play the game again, at some point or another. With FFXII-XIII-2, I just haven't felt the same way.
It was good but I think I prefer 13 simply because it was longer. Also, they REALLY REALLY like the word "paradox" in this game don't they? + Show Spoiler +
At the end I was like *awwww happy ending* and then a few seconds later as Noel is shouting "SERAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!111"...I don't usually do eyerolls but seriously this moment totally warranted one. I know they explained the cost of seeing the future earlier in the game but wow a depressing ending like that...
Also I was really expecting a pre-rendered cinematic (quality equal to that of the regular ending) for the "secret" ending. How disappointing.
I DO have to say though, one thing I liked is that I didn't have to fry up Long Gui BBQ steaks 24/7 for 100% achievement. Oh and I didn't have to hear Vanille's voice for long periods of time. That was good too.
Edit: On a totally unrelated note, I hope Versus 13 will just blow us away (I lurved KH1&2). I've been looking forward to that game ever since I got this friggin PS3 back in high school.
Nobuo Uematsu was WONDERFUL at setting themes up throughout the games. For example, in FF9, the idea of planet Terra, which Zidane was from, having magic power and influencing the events that happened on Gaia, was shown a lot through the music. The theme for Terra was played at some point or another in like 8 different songs there, and it'd be variated, sometimes played in the background, or for only 5 seconds throughout the song, but it'd be there. That was huge, FFXII - FFXIII-2 don't have that at all.
On February 16 2012 12:28 ColdLava wrote: Nobuo Uematsu was WONDERFUL at setting themes up throughout the games. For example, in FF9, the idea of planet Terra, which Zidane was from, having magic power and influencing the events that happened on Gaia, was shown a lot through the music. The theme for Terra was played at some point or another in like 8 different songs there, and it'd be variated, sometimes played in the background, or for only 5 seconds throughout the song, but it'd be there. That was huge, FFXII - FFXIII-2 don't have that at all.
I agree. The music in the most recent FF's has been...lacking. ESPECIALLY IN 13-2. I just want to ride my chocobo with good ol' fashioned happy music but no they'd rather scream at me "YOU WANNA RIIIIIIIIDE THIS CHOCOBO??!! BLAH BLAH" Or Noel and Serah would be having a conversation and for some reason Square Enix decided to pick music with lyrics so I'm hearing two voices simultaneously overlapping each other. Ugh.
I would think that since there was no voice acting in the games prior to 10, they relied a hell of a lot more on the music to relay emotions to the player. Nobuo was a master at this no doubt. Even the background music in some towns (in IX) just fit the mood remarkably well (Dali and Treno's music just stuck to my brain). I'm a IX fanboy but Nobuo's influence over the music in the old games is just undeniably well done. Any game or movie that is able to pull off such strong emotions purely through the music (I think of the opening sequence in Up as the strongest for a movie) deserves mad props.
Btw around what level roughly can you beat the DLC Lightning, or does the difficulty scale with player level or something? Just so I know whether the DLC is worth it or not.
I did fight Lightning with maxed out characters and it wasn't simple rapefest. I actually had to switch between rav/rav/rav and com/com/com (with initial syn/med/sen for buffs, but im sure its not really important). So, all in all, the difficulty was comparable with game-ending fights (not like they are hard or smth;P).
I dont know if that encounter is scalable with level/game progress.
End of the game was definitely harder which was cool to see after the main story being so damn easy. But not hard enough I guess . A shame they recycled all the fight mechanics of end game monster of XIII. Yomi for example was so much easier because I knew what to do. I also made the terrible mistake of not resisting the temptation of building an "ultimate chichu" monster which made all those fight a lot easier than they should have been.
But all in all, it was a good game, story was cool, exploration I felt was well done and I love the combat system. I'd even welcome a FF XIII - 3 (because all hope seems lost for versus 13...)
Well, there are only 4 platinum trophies on my PS3: Demon's Souls + Dark Soul and FF XIII + FF XIII-2. Even if there is significant difference in difficulty (measured in light years!), they all have something that makes me sink in to a gameplay for many hours;) (maybe I'm just transforming into some kind of jRPG fanboy)
But! I always value games that lasts for many hours (talking about games with 100h+ content) and after you do everything possible in them, you still just want MORE! FF XIII-2 fits to this definition in 100%, so if anyone liked at least a little FF XIII, should give this sequel a try, because its just better. (and i must say that I had to start FF XIII three times before i actually finished it because its god damn boring and easy for the first 20h - not mentioning character drama)
I really like what they did to characters - Noel is quite OK guy. Hope in the sequel is at least acceptable;P And I love ending with Snow - damn! It fits this character in 100%
The battle system from XIII is working really well. Gives a lot of customization and opens multiple ways to beat the game. Only if fights would be a bit more challenging. I mean, why do we have that "paradigm switch'es", and all the stuff connected to it (did anyone of you use syn or sab monster during fights?), if most of the game you just rush with com/com/com (and sometimes add rav/rav/rav).
Anyway, FF XIII-2 (and XIII) is one of the best polished game this times. You will NOT encounter ANY bug, glitch or whatever. Graphic quality is on really high standards.
I really look forward for XIII-3, and I wonder what kind of DLC they will release for XIII-2 (Curse them, if it will only be some new outfits and shiny axes!)
On February 20 2012 06:21 DnameIN wrote: I did fight Lightning with maxed out characters and it wasn't simple rapefest. I actually had to switch between rav/rav/rav and com/com/com (with initial syn/med/sen for buffs, but im sure its not really important). So, all in all, the difficulty was comparable with game-ending fights (not like they are hard or smth;P).
I dont know if that encounter is scalable with level/game progress.
dont think, I wasnt about 15 hr of play and got wiped as soon as the second guy came in
I beat the main story today, and i felt that the ending was kind of a middle finger for me. I was expecting my questions to be answered and certain problems to be resolved, but it did just the opposite for me. I really don't wanna have to pay extra money for dlc packs just to answer a few of my questions (let alone potentially buy another game for an ending to the story).
Aside from the story, I felt the gameplay was more solid all-around. The battle system was revamped with the addition of monsters, and actually letting us use a strategy with our paradigms. The addition of the historia crux makes it a lot easier to navigate from area to area (which was a huge improvement from the linearity of XIII) Also, the music really made playing the game much more of a fun experience.
In essence, I liked everything about the game except the story, but that's just my 2 cents.
Almost didn't believe I was at the final boss since it was only 20 hours into my save file. I remember it taking 40 hours to beat the original FF13.
What an ending, I sort of expected it to occur but it left me sort of feeling the same way when Aerith first died :/. Fuck this kind of makes me sad, with the ambiguous ending for Lightning and Serah not being there anymore. I wonder wtf they have planned for 13-3. So glad they made this a trilogy though, love the FF13 universe.
Well, time for 60 hours of post-game trophy hunting!
Game was everything I expected it to be when I heard about the improvements they were making from the original 13. Really fun game that had me captivated from start to finish, definitely feel like it was 3x better than 13 as well. Biggest surprise was how likeable Noel was, and Serah was great too.
Just started playing recently, about 5 hours in. I seriously thought about not buying the game at all given how disappointed I was with FF13. But the lack of RPGs in general nudged me to get it(my 360 have been collecting dust recently). It gives me the same feel that FFX-2 did, which is fairly lighthearted, fun, and overall relaxing gameplay/story. Glad my money wasn't wasted.
Hate the new crystadium(sp?) though. And the lack of party rotation will likely be annoying later on. But right now this game seems better at everything than its predecessor.
I played it for about 3-4 hours then got a refund. The characters initially did nothing for me and I just couldn't bring myself to give a fuck about the rest of the story. I might give it another look if i see it on sale, but I doubt it.
Bit of a shame though, I felt blown away by the ending to 13 and then i was just "" at the new one...
I think they took the "linearity" complaint of FF-13 too far with 13-2. Sure going to different worlds/times/reliving events is the complete polar opposite of "linearity," but I don't feel like it was the improvement that was needed. Game was a solid 7/10 for me, because it sure felt like I was playing a game, but everything from the story to the combat was SO shallow.
Got all the fragments except the captain cryptic stuff, seriously who comes up with that stuff ?! I like fighting monsters. I don't like searching a huge city with lots of side alleys for an invisible (well blurry) man to answer silly questions ...
I guess we can all agree that some of the fragment were a bit over done and squrenix took the fan word for being to "linear" a bit too far. I think we can all agree that the most annoying fragments are:
The slot machine one Captain Cryptic/Quiz one Bestiary monster data
I was surprise that there wasnt one for chocobo racing. Thankfully because of that I just bought the fragment with gils.
Okay, I finished the game with 100% ending and all the trophy and all I gotta say is that the secret ending was NOT worth the effort into completing but I must say the ending was interesting. I did not expect that to happen and will be looking forward to the sequel if there was one. I mean I havent been this WTF about a Final fantasy ending since 10. I am safe to say I am glad I bought the game.
On February 26 2012 16:52 SheaR619 wrote: Okay, I finished the game with 100% ending and all the trophy and all I gotta say is that the secret ending was NOT worth the effort into completing but I must say the ending was interesting. I did not expect that to happen and will be looking forward to the sequel if there was one. I mean I havent been this WTF about a Final fantasy ending since 10. I am safe to say I am glad I bought the game.
You were "wtf" at FFX's ending?! I thought FFX's ending while sad made complete sense
sorry i'm late to the party! i got my hands on this game about 5 days ago and just beat the main story today. just like all testuya nomura's works, the music is honestly the most beautiful thing i've heard. the producers and musicians are really living bethovan's. aside from that appraisal, i thought the game rather short. the linearity of it disappeared but they literally took the idea off of kingdom hearts. instead of different worlds its just different timelines but i also believe that's the thing that makes this game so unique and makes the plot oh so richer. the rest below are my thoughts about the game and spoilers. incoming lengthy rant!
my only complaint is that how do you leave it unfinished and expect to have DLC's tell the rest of the tale? i felt really sad after beating the game only to have that as an ending. for such a beautiful game about hope, the future, and a better tomorrow, that's honestly the worst thing that could happen when the hero's are played for fools and everything they did was all calculated in caius's plans. kinda feel like this was a game of thrones scene.
with that said i think 13-3 is a good possibility even though there are DLC's. the story has so much unfinished questions and it's honestly such a beautiful story that it would be a shame to end it this way. what this one lacked is character adjustments. you only play as serah and noel which is kinda well wack. which i think a 13-3 would make the most sense by having character rotations. snows involvement in this game was just retarded and there's so much left unanswered about his role which pretty much leads me to believe is also another good factor for 13-3. snow being branded again shows there's another deity outside of the god of etros and that his involvement is much bigger then what's going on right now and probably doesn't end at just finding lightning.
if anyone has watched the 2 secret endings, which i'm not sure is related to the main plotline or not but i believe so, 13-3 would make the most sense to start off from that point of a fucked up time-line. what i also don't comprehend is the fact, if all it took was a stab to caius's heart to begin with, why didn't he do it himself? he technically did in the main ending....
I've been enjoying this more than FF13, though I do have some complaints. Chocobo races and the casino in general were pretty disappointing, I was expecting something like Gold Saucer but this did not deliver. Also combat difficulty actually feels much easier than FF13, could be that I just built my characters and monsters too well, loving my high level behemoth. Might end up skipping all the DLC as well, especially as I have the Asia version which makes it slightly more troublesome to get afaik.
I don't think music is that bad par some annoying tunes and some that are just plain out of place like that shout metal whatever you call it in couple scenarios.
Currently at the point where I have to collect the Graviton Cores and got slightly bored.
yeah it's definitely alot easier and in general as you see the progression of the series, leveling is much easier as well. i skipped the casino entirely and basically could afford all the artefacts from serendepity by buying coins with gil alone from training lmfao. achelyte steppe is probably the best place to farm CP + GIL. if you can kill one of the side mission bosses in that place you're pretty much guaranteed to win the entire game because you earn a whooping 30,000 CP.
On February 01 2012 15:17 ShadowDrgn wrote: For anyone that likes to min/max and do all the crazy stuff in single player RPGs, I'll plug my friend's youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/arthellinus . He worked on the official FF XIII-2 strategy guide so he's had the game for months and will be uploading tons of videos in the next few days. He made lots of FF XIII videos and is also responsible for those ridiculously good Persona 3 and 4 databases on GameFAQs. Also, if you never buy official strategy guides because they're useless and written by idiots, this one might be worth looking at.
Before I bought the game I bookmarked this, it was full of very interesting movies, and now that I have the game all those movies are gone TT. Do someone know where they are ?
Looks all right for at least a single play-through. That's good enough for me. Also, weren't they all able to use magic because of those funky symbols?
On March 14 2012 23:58 dUTtrOACh wrote: Looks all right for at least a single play-through. That's good enough for me. Also, weren't they all able to use magic because of those funky symbols?
Not everyone is a l-cie (Funky symbol people)
But everyone can use magic
I dunno, as hyped as i was for this game i didnt enjoy it as much or get that final fantasy feeling from it. (I did with 13, i loved its story and the graphics prolly helped too.) First time ive felt let down from an FF game, yes, i even enjoyed playing X-2, as shitty as it was. (1000 words truely epic song tho.)
Played this a bit last weekend. I found that I want fully automated combat as an option (I don't have to click twice to attack, yet if I hit a button it switches to normal mode) and the option to turn off quick time events. Oh and an option to lower the music volume.
My experience was basically, load into combat, 3s. Kill enemies, 4s, wait for end screen 2 s, hit forward twice, 1s. Meaning I spent more time loading into and out of combat than in it for a decent portion of the time spent playing. That would be ok if I didn't have to hit buttons to get through it, basically giving me a little time to drink something or scratch my nose without losing anything in play time. ^^
Quick time events is the worst part though. Nice I finally get the enemy down, release the controller and close my eyes while waiting for the cut scene to start or the end battle screen to come up. Bam, missed QTE.
Finished ME3 a couple of days ago, I thought it's impossible to have an ending as bad or even close to ME3's ending, FFXIII-2's ending proved me wrong. On the good side, the game wasn't that good so the bad ending didn't offend me as much.
On June 30 2012 00:32 polyphonyEX wrote: ^Playing through the mass effect series for the first time right now. All I ever hear about me3 is how bad the ending is. Is it really that bad?
It is! But we were shocked, because everything from beggining of ME1 to just-before-ending ME3 was pure awesomnes;) So play it, enjoy it, and just be aware that ending will be little disapointment;P
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, Can't wait till it comes out nexy week 
