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United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2011 10:14 misaTO wrote:
You MUST HAVE SUFFERED TINKER/MANTICORE DECKS!!!
It's not just one deck or another. It's a whole slew of degenerate cards/combos that basically ruined the eternal formats (particularly Vintage, since by design there can't be any bans in Vintage).
I dunno why, but i have always favored a deck with a system over "combo decks"
Then why do you like Urza block so much? Seeing as it almost destroyed all non-combo decks in the eternal formats.
There's a reason that the winter in which Urza's Legacy was released is colloquially known as "Combo Winter".
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On January 07 2011 10:14 misaTO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:32 TheYango wrote:On January 07 2011 06:27 misaTO wrote:
edit : Counterspell now costs 3 mana while imbaduress costs 1 black mana.
Does anyone remember cabal therapy+duress? Sure, you can nitpick on Cancel, or you can realize that because Mana Leak is in every format, it's completely irrelevant anyway, so the fact that it's strictly worse than Counterspell doesn't matter. And I recall a competitive player describing Duress as "training wheels" for Cabal Therapy--by mid-game 1/game 2, a good player should be able to blind Therapy for priority targets, without the need to spend deck slots on Duress. On January 07 2011 08:12 Judicator wrote:
So you hate the new cards but like Mercadia and Urza....right...that makes total sense. Seriously. Urza's Saga and Mercadian Masques were comparatively poor sets. Urza's just had enough degenerate broken mechanics that it completely wrecked Type I as a format, and the power level of Mercadian Masques was by contrast comparatively low and many of the card designs were very uninspired. Compounding the problem was how Masques block constructed was completely dominated by the overly self-synergistic Rebel mechanic. If you're going to reminisce about old metagames, at least reminisce about good ones--Urza/Masques was one of the worst times to be playing competitive Magic (the only other contenders IMO being Onslaught/Mirrodin before the bans, or Mirrodin/Kamigawa). In response, counterspell (?) As You mentioned Lin Siivi retarded combo, i must ask if you remember the rising waters thingy. That was soooooooo anoying.. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:46 Offhand wrote:On January 07 2011 06:27 misaTO wrote:
Am I the only one who would love to see Urza's or Mercadia re-edited? I know collectors would totally rage @ this but the metagame was much more fun back then.
I don't know what you're doing putting Mercadian Masques and Urza' Saga in the same sentence in terms of power cards. Urza's Saga as a block was the most powerful thing they did until Mirroden. Masques was universally garbage because Wizards was afraid to make any good cards following Urza's. I'm guessing those two sets were just when you played. You also missed the retro set. Time Spiral brought back a ton of old cards. It was also the best block in limited... like ever. I haven't actually played competitively since Lorwyn/Shadowmoore sets so I don't know if Scars really is terrible. Heard really good things about Alara and Eldrazi but never played it at a tournament level. You MUST HAVE SUFFERED TINKER/MANTICORE DECKS!!! I dunno why, but i have always favored a deck with a system over "combo decks" Did anyone play a Fires of yavimaya deck? Flametongue Kavus, Fires, Spiritmongers Cloaks?
I think you like to use a very broad definition of combo decks. Still the argument stands, Urza and Masques were the worst so many annoying cards that demanded an answer then and there or you'll be staring down shit. Onslaught was looking alright until Mirrodin reared it's ugly head.
Scars is too early to be judged although Besieged right now looks very bland.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2011 10:26 Judicator wrote:
I think you like to use a very broad definition of combo decks. Still the argument stands, Urza and Masques were the worst so many annoying cards that demanded an answer then and there or you'll be staring down shit. Onslaught was looking alright until Mirrodin reared it's ugly head.
Scars is too early to be judged although Besieged right now looks very bland.
From what I've seen, WotC goes in cycles--they start with a block that's too strong, follow up with one that's too weak, then end up with a decent block.
Urza (too strong)
Masques (too weak)
Invasion (good)
Mirrodin (too strong)
Kamigawa (too weak)
Ravnica (good)
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^ Broad as in mind desire is a combo deck, masscounterspells is a strat.
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On January 07 2011 10:29 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:26 Judicator wrote:
I think you like to use a very broad definition of combo decks. Still the argument stands, Urza and Masques were the worst so many annoying cards that demanded an answer then and there or you'll be staring down shit. Onslaught was looking alright until Mirrodin reared it's ugly head.
Scars is too early to be judged although Besieged right now looks very bland. From what I've seen, WotC goes in cycles--they start with a block that's too strong, follow up with one that's too weak, then end up with a decent block. Urza (too strong) Masques (too weak) Invasion (good) Mirrodin (too strong) Kamigawa (too weak) Ravnica (good)
scars is pretty yucky imo. it seems like it was designed mostly for limited.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2011 10:32 Orpheos wrote:
scars is pretty yucky imo. it seems like it was designed mostly for limited.
See, you start with that train of thought, then you realize that Infect is one of the worst Limited mechanics ever designed.
It's poor Limited design when Infect decks want zero non-Infect creatures and non-infect decks want zero Infect creatures, because it makes the Infect player's pick orders overly linear and simplistic.
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Obviously magic has gone downhill.
Its a product. If they release new sets that are of the same power as the old ones then people have no incentive to buy them. Therefore every new release becomes slightly more OP in order to force people to go out and get it in order to not get raped.
I stopped playing years ago, but me and a few friends pooled all our cards in a big box and we still sometimes pull em out every once in a while, its a fun game.
The art also went to shit mostly. I remember playing a game where you pulled out random cards and tried to call the artist just by looking at the style. Good fucking luck doing that anymore. Plus all the really crazy talented artists left or shifted to the more simplified style that they decided to go with in the new sets. I missed when each artist contributed in completely their own style without even trying to make a unified body of work.
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On January 07 2011 06:39 misaTO wrote:
I just can't remember exactly but it was a monocromatic blue flying counter shitstorm. Roflstomping "serious" decks with fairies was insane.
It's funny because Faeries decks have been tearing up constructed recently, deck to beat in Extended, etc
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United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2011 10:47 Turbovolver wrote:
It's funny because Faeries decks have been tearing up constructed recently, deck to beat in Extended, etc
To be fair, I don't think anyone playing during Urza/Masques would be able to predict that cards like Spellstutter Sprite and Mistbind Clique would get printed.
It's also probably the least surprising thing about this Extended format--Lorwyn/Alara Standard + new Jace = mega-dominant Faeries.
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On January 07 2011 10:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:32 Orpheos wrote:
scars is pretty yucky imo. it seems like it was designed mostly for limited. See, you start with that train of thought, then you realize that Infect is one of the worst Limited mechanics ever designed. It's poor Limited design when Infect decks want zero non-Infect creatures and non-infect decks want zero Infect creatures, because it makes the Infect player's pick orders overly linear and simplistic.
there are ok infect picks in non-infect decks and vice versa
tons of mechanics have been parasitic or super-linear and limited formats have still been fine, limited holds up to that kind of design (which I really dislike) a lot better than constructed
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I remember loving this as a kid, but lost interest because of the new cards sets.. I had an elf deck, so much HP!!!
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United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2011 11:08 UniversalSnip wrote:
there are ok infect picks in non-infect decks and vice versa
tons of mechanics have been parasitic or super-linear and limited formats have still been fine, limited holds up to that kind of design (which I really dislike) a lot better than constructed
I'm not saying that it ruins the format, but I would think that a set "designed with Limited in mind" would deliberately try to avoid those types of mechanics.
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On January 07 2011 11:24 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 11:08 UniversalSnip wrote:
there are ok infect picks in non-infect decks and vice versa
tons of mechanics have been parasitic or super-linear and limited formats have still been fine, limited holds up to that kind of design (which I really dislike) a lot better than constructed I'm not saying that it ruins the format, but I would think that a set "designed with Limited in mind" would deliberately try to avoid those types of mechanics.
Yeah, fair enough.
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On January 07 2011 10:42 sob3k wrote:
Obviously magic has gone downhill.
The art also went to shit mostly. I remember playing a game where you pulled out random cards and tried to call the artist just by looking at the style. Good fucking luck doing that anymore. Plus all the really crazy talented artists left or shifted to the more simplified style that they decided to go with in the new sets. I missed when each artist contributed in completely their own style without even trying to make a unified body of work.
Glad you only recall the good ones but none of the shitty ones. Wizards raised the average art quality by a pretty good amount since the old days.
Let's just ignore the Zendikar lands while we're at it.
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I have not enjoyed a MTG series since Mirrodin. I didn't even like Mirrodin that much, but it was the last one I played seriously during...
Also, Fires of Yavimaya was the scourge of my existence.
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On January 07 2011 11:32 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:42 sob3k wrote:
Obviously magic has gone downhill.
The art also went to shit mostly. I remember playing a game where you pulled out random cards and tried to call the artist just by looking at the style. Good fucking luck doing that anymore. Plus all the really crazy talented artists left or shifted to the more simplified style that they decided to go with in the new sets. I missed when each artist contributed in completely their own style without even trying to make a unified body of work.
Glad you only recall the good ones but none of the shitty ones. Wizards raised the average art quality by a pretty good amount since the old days. Let's just ignore the Zendikar lands while we're at it.
Yeah, thats my whole point...I liked that there was no "average art quality" to raise, because each card was so different. I thought those weird cards with silly line drawings and stuff were funny and interesting.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2011 14:22 sob3k wrote:
Yeah, thats my whole point...I liked that there was no "average art quality" to raise, because each card was so different. I thought those weird cards with silly line drawings and stuff were funny and interesting.
Each person is going to like different art pieces. It's sort of hard to say that it's better or worse. You can definitely say, though, that the art is more polished than before.
And on your point of recognizing art by artist--I actually don't find it any harder on the newer ones than the older ones, but that might be because a lot of the newer artists are people like Wayne Reynolds, who I recognize from other fantasy artwork.
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On January 07 2011 06:35 Mortality wrote:
MTG...
I could seriously nerd rage about how my deck that used to be worth close to 500 dollars is probably worth pennies by now. Cards that used to be a good 10 bucks a decade ago are trash now.
Too bad cards that used to be worth pennies are worth 50+ dollars now (Force of Will, Tarmagoyf)
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United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2011 14:53 iSiN wrote:
Too bad cards that used to be worth pennies are worth 50+ dollars now (Force of Will, Tarmagoyf)
When was Tarmogoyf worth pennies? It was pretty obviously good and got up to $20 while it was still in Standard ffs.
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the first couple of weeks you could pick qoyf up for less then 3 bucks.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.mtgvault.com/images/cards/USG/Voltaic_Key.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://vandel.dk/magic/artifact/Memory%20Jar.jpg)
