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On December 14 2010 21:17 LittleeD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 11:47 Manit0u wrote:On December 14 2010 10:31 plated.rawr wrote:
Supercharged necromancy - with this I mean the scaling unit return (up untill Vampire Lord I think it was?). On grandmaster necromancy you got something like 20% + hero speciality + 10% per necrospire of killed enemies returned in hitpoints as Vampire Lords, who were practically unkillable thanks to lifedrain, no retaliation and Raise Dead. Compare that to Heroes 2 base skeleton only-ressurection, and you can see what was a handy cannon fodder-production ability turned into a gamebreaking powerhouse without equal.
I'm sorry but you're wrong on this one. Raising Vampire Lords was in HoMM4, not 3. In 3 you had your skellies, upgraded skellies (depending on available slots and your army composition) and liches if you got some uber set item. What was broken with Necromancy (it was banned, along with Diplomacy in every tournament possible) was the fact that with hero specializing in it, you got so many skelingtons (unupgraded ones ofc, you get more of them and it's all about numbers) that you breeze through any opponent. 10 dragons can't be 9k skelingtons, sorry. The rest of your army won't be of much help either. It was very boring style of play as you attacked everything in your path, took critters out of every single on-map dwelling and whatever else you could, just to get as many skeletons as possible (and trust me, this numbers grow pretty fast on some maps) to reach your initial critical mass at which point the snowball effect starts to take place and you don't have to fear any more. That's why they had destroy undead as a spell : ) And really Necromancy wasnt that good, there were a lot of earlier talents that helped you along in the long term. Necromancy owned with the "uber set item" of which you talked about though.
Actually, the uber set item wasn't so uber. Necromancy rises units according to hp (you get a hp pool from killed enemies and you raise your units from it) and since liches have quite a bit of hp, you rise very few of them. The power of necromancy lay in numbers and you couldn't get more of anything than skellies (which were also powered by sacrifices in your town) and nothing benefitted more than them from easy-to-get items like +1 or +2hp/unit.
Diplomacy worked in similar way, some things join you = you get stronger = next group will join you easier = snowball effect. It was more random than Necromancy, but ultimately you could just grab every unit you encounter on the map and no one could catch up in unit count to you. Having nice army + nice defence in every town + powerful secondary heroes is damn strong.
I do get why people are bitching about HoMM4 too, but you have to remember that it did introduce a couple of interesting features:
- caravans
- either/or system of creature dwellings in town
- more skill levels and some pretty interesting skills
- cool new spells
- interesting new creature mechanics (first strike for example, kind of weaker version of no-retaliation which made sense for weaker units)
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HUGE news for me! Thanks for the update 
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9070 Posts
who cares about necromancy and all that stuff in HoMM3, just play with Cyra, Rynold or the castle girl with the Bless - they all begin with diplomacy in their skills. If the map is not made so that creatures never join you, you will rape whatever the opponent ,as soon as that adv diplomacy kicks in.
And I disagree about the aggressive play thing - on small maps Stronghold and Fortress are insanely imba, just because they tech so fast to high class units. I was never able to hit perfect 500 points against AIs but the closest I got was 492, small map with Stronghold
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On small maps Solmyr is the guy you want. Chain-lightning rapes face in situations where game rarely lasts more than 1-2 months.
Go now and get your 500pts 
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On December 14 2010 23:18 Manit0u wrote:On small maps Solmyr is the guy you want. Chain-lightning rapes face in situations where game rarely lasts more than 1-2 months. Go now and get your 500pts
Solmyr was my favourite hero. Guess why ^^
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9070 Posts
On December 14 2010 23:18 Manit0u wrote:On small maps Solmyr is the guy you want. Chain-lightning rapes face in situations where game rarely lasts more than 1-2 months. Go now and get your 500pts
its not that easy, beating the AI in 10 days is fine but you need a bit of luck for the graal for that extra 25 points
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On December 15 2010 00:15 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2010 23:18 Manit0u wrote:On small maps Solmyr is the guy you want. Chain-lightning rapes face in situations where game rarely lasts more than 1-2 months. Go now and get your 500pts its not that easy, beating the AI in 10 days is fine but you need a bit of luck for the graal for that extra 25 points
Wasn't there this small map where you start with your castle entirely done with graal already in place? Or perhaps it was a map with just one or two obelisks...
Anyway, doable.
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Ughh why did I have to get a Mac
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On December 13 2010 10:18 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Where is Might and Magic X?
I concur
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On December 15 2010 00:23 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 00:15 disciple wrote:On December 14 2010 23:18 Manit0u wrote:On small maps Solmyr is the guy you want. Chain-lightning rapes face in situations where game rarely lasts more than 1-2 months. Go now and get your 500pts its not that easy, beating the AI in 10 days is fine but you need a bit of luck for the graal for that extra 25 points Wasn't there this small map where you start with your castle entirely done with graal already in place? Or perhaps it was a map with just one or two obelisks... Anyway, doable.
It's a joke on Ready to Go.
1. Pick Conflux with Inetus as your starting hero with bonus item
2. Restart the game until you see him with Expert Wisdom.
3. Day 1, run to magic spring, then go towards center of map. If there's a broken item there, take it via Fly.
4. Day 2, take out any of the opposing towns of your choice via Berserk spell.
5. Win after the first week's worth of troops.
You can't lose any fight, because of Phoenix's speed means you get first cast of Berserk. You can take a Relic level item from mid because of Fly courtesy of Conflux's Grail of all spells. You can choose to creep your hero up to 3 or 4 the first few days also.
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9070 Posts
On December 15 2010 00:23 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 00:15 disciple wrote:On December 14 2010 23:18 Manit0u wrote:On small maps Solmyr is the guy you want. Chain-lightning rapes face in situations where game rarely lasts more than 1-2 months. Go now and get your 500pts its not that easy, beating the AI in 10 days is fine but you need a bit of luck for the graal for that extra 25 points Wasn't there this small map where you start with your castle entirely done with graal already in place? Or perhaps it was a map with just one or two obelisks... Anyway, doable.
Having the graal in your castle doesnt give you the points, you have to dig it out yourself
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I'm surprised there are so few people that like Heroes IV (well, maybe not that surprised), it's become my favorite due to its focus on heroes. I guess it's perfect since I enjoy RPG's, sometimes I literally just mass heroes, spending all my gold investing in their equipment, skills and whatnot, it's quite fun.
Actually, for this reason it's harder to go back to the older Heroes games, it annoys me how heroes can't be in the fight. Simple stat boosts for combat heroes seems kinda boring.
I do recall the game being pretty broken when it first came out (no multiplayer?), but I suggest anyone that hasn't touched it since, to give it another shot. The graphics, music and all are up to the series' standards, IMO, better than 5 at least (though I prefer 2D)
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On December 15 2010 02:33 cordlc wrote:
I'm surprised there are so few people that like Heroes IV (well, maybe not that surprised), it's become my favorite due to its focus on heroes. I guess it's perfect since I enjoy RPG's, sometimes I literally just mass heroes, spending all my gold investing in their equipment, skills and whatnot, it's quite fun.
Actually, for this reason it's harder to go back to the older Heroes games, it annoys me how heroes can't be in the fight. Simple stat boosts for combat heroes seems kinda boring.
I do recall the game being pretty broken when it first came out (no multiplayer?), but I suggest anyone that hasn't touched it since, to give it another shot. The graphics, music and all are up to the series' standards, IMO, better than 5 at least (though I prefer 2D)
I really like HoMM4. It you read it carefully I have been pointing out how good HoMM4 is! I just didn't want to put it out there directly because people are going to flame me.
But yea, HoMM4 is awesome. It has the most awesome campaigns and story line - especially the Price of Peace. I wish Blizzard could write SC2 like they did with HoMM4.
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On December 14 2010 21:32 Stone[MB] wrote:
just a quick question, does anyone remember any games on the amiga which were similar to homm. i recall playing a game before heroes (perhaps not in terms of release date) which had the same hexagon based side angled combat system. cant remember much more then that, it did have a map view but it was much simpler then homm, dont think their were any castles mines etc. just the combat screen was very close to homm style.
This?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King's_bounty
I liked HoMM4 too. Not as much as 2\3, but at least it was different. It was extremely buggy at release though, they were forced to ship far too early.
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Man, i only played HoMM3 once, but last year my friends and I got into HoMM5's latest expansion Tribes of the East and it's really well done. For those of you that are complaining about the computers turns being too long you can speed up the computer turn speed in the options menu... Those of you who complain the game itself is too slow you can speed everything up in the options menu..
As for gameplay I really like the option to choose between 2 upgrades for each unit because it adds variety to your builds and allows you to counter different factions easier. I played about 20 games with some friends of mine and the balance is pretty fair other than some imba heroes (Wyngaal and Sinitar).
Rushing is still a viable option for might factions so waiting for a capitol isn't the only thing to do..
Exploration is a must because you cant possibly recruit creatures from all dwellings from just capitol income + gold mine.
There are like 50 different artifacts and a plethora of different spells you can have which makes each new game unique and with that said, there is a shitload of thinking involved in picking skills and figuring out what best counters your enemy.
Even though i barely played HoMM3 I can say that i had a lot of fun with this game. Maybe some of you are just too biased to give it a chance.
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On December 15 2010 03:24 Bond(i2) wrote:
As for gameplay I really like the option to choose between 2 upgrades for each unit because it adds variety to your builds and allows you to counter different factions easier. I played about 20 games with some friends of mine and the balance is pretty fair other than some imba heroes (Wyngaal and Sinitar).
Except that this optional unit upgrades added in TotE aren't really optional. Most of them are a no-brainer picks. That's why I still play vanilla H5 (despite having all expansions, all original and stuff).
Edit: I thought I'll just hijack this post of mine to elaborate on why H4 either/or system was brilliant and why should they keep it.
It created variety and deeper strategy because you could choose one of two dwellings at each tier, each one giving you completely different unit (not just a variation on a unit), requiring different resources etc.
It was great because you no longer could do the "catch them all" stuff and was strategically sound for a couple of reasons:
- it allowed you to adapt to the resources available
- there were more mindgames in PvP (which unit will he choose, what if I counter this one and he went the other one?)
- when capturing new town: Should I get the same dwellings here to boost my population or different ones to add variety to my army?
Best feature ever. Especially that it allowed for more "theme" options (as each dwelling-path had certain theme to it and on top of that you get the mixed option).
Edit2: And H4 was the only edition where Black Dragons really felt like ultimate unit, the only highest-tier unit with 1/week growth and priced at 20k gold + 6sulph or something like that/each. Freaking awesome.
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On December 15 2010 05:01 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 03:24 Bond(i2) wrote:
As for gameplay I really like the option to choose between 2 upgrades for each unit because it adds variety to your builds and allows you to counter different factions easier. I played about 20 games with some friends of mine and the balance is pretty fair other than some imba heroes (Wyngaal and Sinitar).
Except that this optional unit upgrades added in TotE aren't really optional. Most of them are a no-brainer picks. That's why I still play vanilla H5 (despite having all expansions, all original and stuff). Edit: I thought I'll just hijack this post of mine to elaborate on why H4 either/or system was brilliant and why should they keep it. It created variety and deeper strategy because you could choose one of two dwellings at each tier, each one giving you completely different unit (not just a variation on a unit), requiring different resources etc. It was great because you no longer could do the "catch them all" stuff and was strategically sound for a couple of reasons: - it allowed you to adapt to the resources available - there were more mindgames in PvP (which unit will he choose, what if I counter this one and he went the other one?) - when capturing new town: Should I get the same dwellings here to boost my population or different ones to add variety to my army? Best feature ever. Especially that it allowed for more "theme" options (as each dwelling-path had certain theme to it and on top of that you get the mixed option). Edit2: And H4 was the only edition where Black Dragons really felt like ultimate unit, the only highest-tier unit with 1/week growth and priced at 20k gold + 6sulph or something like that/each. Freaking awesome.
TotE's alternative upgrades are not that much of a no-brainer. Sure, you may argue about certain things such as Arcane Archer being far superior, but there are certain things which clearly have different uses:
- Dungeon's T1 and T6 (melee or ranged? Is invisibility important?) T7 (do you want magic resistance or high damage?)
- Haven's T2 (do you want no range penality or high damage point blank?), T3 (do you want offense or defense against ranged units?), T4 (Battle Dive?), T7 (this depends on whether or not you are fighting Undead, and what kind of role you want Angels to play in your army).
- Sylvan T4 (heavily depends on what kind of hero you got), T5 (are you using or facing light magic?), T7 (depends on whether or not your hero has high luck)
- Inferno T4, T6 clearly have different purposes.
- Fortress T4 (they got different uses), T5, T6 (it really depends on if you will run Armageddon), T7 (depends on how defensive you are and how good you are against an army heavy on ranged units)
- Academy T4 and T5 serve different purpose. I usually use Archmage in early game and switch to Battlemage in late game due to the log scaling of creature spell power. Both have uses. Genie's uses are fairly obvious.
- Stronghold T3, T4, T5, T7 have different uses. I am often torn between some of these choices.
Then there are some alternatives which are almost the same that it's OK to just randomly pick one. Some example of this category include Academy T1, T7 (only the special ability is different... which isn't that great anywas), Necropolis T2, T3, T6, T7 (mostly differ by special abilities, which aren't that strong anyways), Stronghold T1, T2, Fortress T1-T3, Sylvan T1, Inferno T2, T3, T5, T7, Haven T1.
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The main problem of HoMM V's gameplay lies not only on the mindless upgrade choices, but on the imbalances surrounding the progression of the heroes' skills and spells. The original intention for the HoMM V skill and spell progression system was probably to allow for more flexibility and versatility (than previous HoMMs) when playing a certain faction. However, in the end, it backfired and actually pigeonholes most of the involved factions even more than the previous HoMMs. The prevalence and domination of Dark Magic (Frenzy and Puppet Master), Light Magic (to counter Dark Magic), and Destruction Magic (as a response to overcome inacccessibility to Dark Magic for certain factions) diminish the importance of creature production and combat management and tactics, which has always been the main appeal of TBS gameplay.
Some problems plaguing the different factions :
- Dungeon. Access to both powerful,expensive creatures (high Attack, not-so-high Defense) and powerful Destruction Magic (high Spellpower stat) leaves the faction "confused". The faction was probably intended to be played as a powerful but fragile "might" and "magic" hybrid faction, but hybrid development never really works. Focusing on "might" side without Light Magic access puts them at disadvantage towards other factions both during early game (harder creeping due to fragile and expensive creatures) and late game (can't counter Frenzy and Puppet). In the end, they can only be competitive when played as a full Destruction Magic faction, forgoing the potential of their creature lineup while trying to rush and blast away enemy heroes and their creatures with overwhelming Destruction Magic as early as possible in the game.
- Inferno. Having a creature lineup with somewhat mediocre stats, lack of access to Light Magic (to counter Dark), and poor magic capability (reliable access to Destruction Magic and some Dark Magic BUT abysmal Spellpower stat and mediocre Knowledge stat) also leave the faction somewhat "confused". The mediocre creature and magic capabilities were put in place to curb the apparently-overpowered Inferno's Gating racial in HoMM V during the early development of the game. However, the Gating has been nerfed again and again without any re-boost to both the "might" nor the "magic" side of the faction. The overwhelming advantage provided by the ultimate skill Urgash's Call also doesn't help by pigeon-holing Inferno heroes into taking a very strict and unflexible skill-up path. When a faction depends not on its creature might nor on its magic capability, but on the Destruction-boosted ballista just to try to be competitive not only during creeping but also during hero clashes, now you know something isn't right.
- Necropolis. The combination of Dark Magic access combined with the overwhelming advantage of smart Necromancy abuse on the original (non-expansion) game have caused the developers to do tweaks and nerfs to the system (Dark Energy). However, the major tweaks and nerfs done to the Necromancy racial were not done very well, causing controversial debates and giving rise to an unintended and unwieldy Necropolis gameplay, i.e. low-level hero spam gameplay to try to get the most advantage of the revamped Dark Energy system.
- Haven and Sylvan are rather in somewhat better state. However, that does NOT mean that they have successfully achieved the previously-mentioned TBS gameplay (creature management and combat tactics) well. They are rather saved by more-focused faction design from the beginning of the game and access to Light Magic to protect their creatures mid-late game. Tactics-wise, there are still much stuff to work on for these factions. Haven probably less-so, as it is probably closer to their intended design. However, for Sylvan, the advent of alternative creature upgrades has probably done more harm than good to the faction's tactics and strategy. As for Stronghold, I personally have mixed feeling towards it so can't really comment.
- Academy and Fortress, probably two of the more successful attempt on implementation of their original game design, i.e. more available flexibility on gameplay within a certain faction without compromising the faction's performance or actually robbing them of differing tactics and strategy.
P.S. On a side note, preliminary rumors are hinting that the 4th HoMM 6 faction are going to be Stronghold (or Stronghold-based).
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Just found something awesome. High-res mod for H3:
![[image loading]](http://omniserver.pl/duniek/EYEFINITY/old%20gaming/h31%20e6.jpg)
3840x2048
Sick.
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On December 16 2010 09:42 Manit0u wrote:Just found something awesome. High-res mod for H3: 3840x2048 Sick.
I remember that map!
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EPT
