EPTThe absolute dickish move they could have made was to intentionally leave those hints with no plans of a real closure. Something to keep the community discussing the ending but always leaving the possibilities open. That would have better if the standard ending wasn't so bad and incomplete, generating this whole mess.
Mass Effect 3 - Page 129
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
The absolute dickish move they could have made was to intentionally leave those hints with no plans of a real closure. Something to keep the community discussing the ending but always leaving the possibilities open. That would have better if the standard ending wasn't so bad and incomplete, generating this whole mess. | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
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ragnorr
Denmark6097 Posts
On March 23 2012 07:41 Audemed wrote: Ok, so if that video is right (and godDAMN it's convincing!), then this "worst ending ever" is actually one of the best endings ever....provided they give the "true" ending out with *free* DLC soon. Would be legendary if it was true. I wont belive it untill i see it tho, so for now ill just continue on terrible writing | ||
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procyonlotor
Italy473 Posts
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On March 23 2012 07:41 Audemed wrote: Ok, so if that video is right (and godDAMN it's convincing!), then this "worst ending ever" is actually one of the best endings ever....provided they give the "true" ending out with *free* DLC soon. The only thing stopping it from being the best ending then would be the fact that it isnt an ending and all and Shepards ass is still in front of the goddam beam. | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
I found this link in the video, it's well written but it doesn't add a lot of new stuff to the discussion if you have been following it for so long, it's basically the "The player is actually the one fighting indocrination" conclusion, but I hadn't heard some of the details mentioned, specially this: "And, I beg of you, go back and replay that final scene we all hate. With the choice we must make. Walk right to the middle of the walkway between the three choices and, several times, begin to walk in each direction. Listen to the music change. The ‘control’ option is sinister, with a quiet humming dissidence. So is the synthesis. And the ‘destroy’ option rings brightly, a pleasant sound of uplifting hope and then fades away. It’s barely noticeable, broken by the jarring drumming sound, and it is only right at the start. But it’s there. And that, my friends, is not by accident." I didn't replay the ending to confirm it, but I'll trust the writer, and it's one of those things that just don't make sense in the original ending, there is no reason for it to happen. | ||
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
And from what i read ( i didn't spoil myself the content of the ending ) i don't know if I should do it. D: | ||
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Miyoshino
314 Posts
Sequals aren't planned. They are written after the first game. They often have to find new themes and new things because often the first part has some closure to them. This is why sequals are often inconsistent. SC2 is a huge example because basically everything that happens in SC and BW has to be changed so that it fits SC2. Remember before SC2 came out people were speculating about Duran and whatnot. They would see all kinds of patterns. Well, no Duran ever showed up in SC2. I remember with Star Wars episode I there were endless debates about who ordered the clone army and who deleted that ocean planet from the archives. In the end, no answer was ever given and this was all completely irrelevant to the story anyway. People just don't understand how story writing works because they have never done it. Let me tell you a big secret right now. Most stories are written halfway through before the auteur starts to worry about the ending. Then the other thing is that the game was just rushed and they just didn't have time to finish a proper ending. A lot of people at bioware are very mad right now because they were forced to mutilate 'their baby'. This is currently a complete disaster for them and people are demanding and getting refunded. ME1, ME2 and ME3 are just inconsistent with each other. In ME1 it is all about finding beacons and finding out more about the prothean. Humans were put on spikes and turned into husks. Also, the keepers play a very strange role, but they play no role at all in the other two games. ME2 suddenly had no more indoctination and suddenly the collectors were thrown in. Large part of the game is actually about squad members and their backstory. In the end you suddenly fight out that collectors are building new reapers rather than them being very ancient. Now humans are put in sleep mode, abducted and they are recycled or something. In ME3 the reapers are suddenly there. No signs of the collectors though. Also, suddenly you have to fight your former allies cerberus. There is no sign anymore of the collectors. Main thing is building this magical deus ex machine you somehow discover on Mars, out of all places. Humans are just vaporized because they need to be destroyed. All through this time what the citadel actually is changes as well. Plot holes just exist. They can't be explained in any other way than just bad writing. They happen in all triple A movies, so they also happen in triple A video games. These plots are just written independent of each other. They all have their own angle or theme and the writers struggle to keep them consistent. Just think for a second. If they wanted to do this indoctrination ending as suggested, would it be the same as ME3 ending is right now? Obviously not. Anyway, this whole line of tricking people into thinking the game has just ending and then continuing with the real ending makes no sense. You want to set up for a real and proper climaxing ending. The last way to do that is to trick the player. Then they cut off the real ending for DLC so people don't even know it wasn't the real ending the way ME3 ended? Really? Surely people could fill a 20 minute video with stuff and it would be convincing. Anything you make a 20 minute video for only propoting that view is going to be convincing. | ||
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ragnorr
Denmark6097 Posts
On March 23 2012 07:59 Noocta wrote: Well.. Here I am. In front of Anderson.. on Earth.. to launch the last bit. And from what i read ( i didn't spoil myself the content of the ending ) i don't know if I should do it. D: When you are on the citadel the bad part begins | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
In ME3 the reapers are suddenly there. No signs of the collectors though. Also, suddenly you have to fight your former allies cerberus. There is no sign anymore of the collectors. Main thing is building this magical deus ex machine you somehow discover on Mars, out of all places. Well, obviously there's no Collector.. We kill them at the end of ME2. :/ Since the Collector have only one mobile vessel, and the base pass the Omega 4 relay.. well. We killed all of them. | ||
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On March 23 2012 07:04 Whitewing wrote: They needed to provide an illusion of choice, while subtlety pushing shepard away from that decision. If they don't make it seem like Shepard even has an option, chances are he fights against the indoctrination significantly more, and possibly beats it. That's what I was trying to say lmao. These quote trees are such a mess, everyone is arguing with / correcting people that are on the same page they are >< | ||
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CobaltBlu
United States919 Posts
On March 23 2012 08:07 Miyoshino wrote: ME1, ME2 and ME3 are just inconsistent with each other. In ME1 it is all about finding beacons and finding out more about the prothean. Humans were put on spikes and turned into husks. Also, the keepers play a very strange role, but they play no role at all in the other two games. ME2 suddenly had no more indoctination and suddenly the collectors were thrown in. Large part of the game is actually about squad members and their backstory. In the end you suddenly fight out that collectors are building new reapers rather than them being very ancient. Now humans are put in sleep mode, abducted and they are recycled or something. In ME3 the reapers are suddenly there. No signs of the collectors though. Also, suddenly you have to fight your former allies cerberus. There is no sign anymore of the collectors. Main thing is building this magical deus ex machine you somehow discover on Mars, out of all places. Humans are just vaporized because they need to be destroyed. All through this time what the citadel actually is changes as well. Collectors are to the Protheans as Husks are to humans and Marauders are to Turians etc. And I thought it was explained very clearly what the Collectors were, what their relationship with Reapers was, what they were doing and why there aren't any of them anymore. And Mass Effect was a planned trilogy irc. | ||
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Miyoshino
314 Posts
When ME2 ended the collector base had no more use as a plot device. But all of ME2 was about the collector base. That's how story writing works. Picking apart line for line what Saren said in ME1 isn't going to give you any clues about ME3. Also stories often can't be planned trilogies because you don't know if they are going to sell well. And even if it was, they didn't know what ME2 was going to be about at all when they finished ME1 story. ME1 didn't set up the ME2 plot. And the ME2 story didn't set up the ME3 plot. Keepers maintain the citadel. I don't see how they are like husks, whoever created them anyway because that was never made clear. | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
There is some shit that just makes a lot more sense if you think of it with the indoctrination theory in mind, otherwise it seems really bizarre, like how TIM just shows up out of nowhere. Why TIM and Anderson talk to only Shep and not eachother - shit like that. | ||
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Miyoshino
314 Posts
On March 23 2012 08:47 Salv wrote: Why TIM and Anderson talk to only Shep and not eachother - shit like that. Because Shepard is the player and all lines written for TIM and Anderson are written with a designed effect on the player in mind. The writers just didn't try very hard to suspend the disbelief here and was it actually needed?. Isn't this extremely common in all games? Yet you call it really bizzare. Also I don't see why getting the whole internet to rage at you is 'very clever'. If you get your customers mad and it was a mistake, well that's too bad. Better luck next time. But when you intentionlly make your own customers rage, you are just stupid. It's like scoring an own goal and then explaining you wanted to make the match more exciting because you know so well how much your fans like to see a tense and entertaining game. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 23 2012 08:42 Miyoshino wrote: Lol why do the collectors have only 1 vessel? In ME2 they were surprised that the 3 collector vessels encountered were the same. This is just behind the fact rationalization. ME2 its story angle was the collectors. They had some mythical base orbiting the back hole in the center of the universe (lol) and that was destroyed (or actually saved). Then it loses it's interest and the story writers move on to something new. When ME2 ended the collector base had no more use as a plot device. But all of ME2 was about the collector base. That's how story writing works. Picking apart line for line what Saren said in ME1 isn't going to give you any clues about ME3. Also stories often can't be planned trilogies because you don't know if they are going to sell well. And even if it was, they didn't know what ME2 was going to be about at all when they finished ME1 story. ME1 didn't set up the ME2 plot. And the ME2 story didn't set up the ME3 plot. Keepers maintain the citadel. I don't see how they are like husks, whoever created them anyway because that was never made clear. it says on the wikipedia page that mass effect was always intended to be a trilogy | ||
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Thingdo
United States186 Posts
Basically, it kind of comes down to two options. 1. It was planned. Kudos for a massive plot twist (though it should have shipped with the main game) 2. Things got rushed at the end and mistakes got made like adding the trees, and other parts got rushed and just didn't flow well, like TIM showing up. I'm inclined to say that its 2 rather than 1. Releasing a fake ending with the main game, and only giving your players the real ending as a DLC later just seems like a terrible idea to me. Its a really cool idea for a plot twist, but I just don't think they would intentionally risk alienating so many fans for it. I think if it had been planned from the beginning, it would have been in the game when it shipped. However, I'm not sure this means we won't end up seeing that ending as DLC. I could see them reading all the forum posts and watching all the videos, and then deciding it would be a cool thing to do. | ||
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Miyoshino
314 Posts
You can claim all you want that the story ought to be continious because it was an intended trilogy, but that's a non-sequitur. | ||
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