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On March 22 2012 01:19 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 01:15 SKC wrote:On March 22 2012 01:04 Tobberoth wrote:On March 22 2012 00:55 Iyerbeth wrote:On March 22 2012 00:53 The KY wrote:On March 22 2012 00:37 Andr3 wrote:
As much as I would like a better explanation of the ending, it feels weird that BW has to "fix" it. For good or for ill we should just accept it, else we can start complaining about other works as well.
Would be funny if every other game would have a DLC with a different ending, or a movie or a book. But MAN do I agree with this. The finished product is what it is and I would feel all wrong if they tried to fix it with DLC. ALL wrong. The fact that Bioware is responding to people's criticism with 'oh you don't like it? Ok maybe we'll change it' is extremely weird to me. They promised a product they didn't deliver. Demanding a different ending is the least we should be doing, and as responsible consumers we have every right to. They have the right to choose not to of course, but that would just mean that many people wouldn't buy from them in future. If you watch a movie and dislike the ending, do you contact the director and demand he direct a new ending which conforms to what you want? No? Does anyone do this? Has it ever happened? Then why should you be able to do it here? I never like this comparison. Do you have huge internet forums where viewers discuss movies and even interact with developers? Do movies commonly ask for feedback, and sometimes even include popular demands in the finished product or during the development cycle? You obviously can't compare the level of interaction between developers and the public in those two situations. Is it fine to complain that Bnet doesn't offer some features it probally should have? Is it fine to complain that a developer doesn't include a feature he promised before? That a hero/class/race is boring/overpowered/weak/badly designed/etc? Is it fine to ask for extra features you would like to see in a patch? What exactly can you ask of the developers and what can't you ask? A diferent ending is probally something that never happened before, not to this scale, and some people may be taking it a little to serious, but don't say you can never ask for changes in a game just because movies don't change after release, that's a bad argument. You simply need to realize what is story and what isn't. I want a button in SC2 which shows some more stats... that's not infringing on their vision of the SC2 universe and story, it's just functionality I think would be sweet. Telling them that Kerrigan should have died at the end and that I demand they fix it because I prefer an end where Kerrigan dies, now that's trying to change the story, which is not the same thing at all.
(Starcraft 2 isn't a game of choices, it's a straight-up RTS campaign. You are a faceless overseer of units, not a hero)
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On March 22 2012 01:41 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 01:19 Tobberoth wrote:On March 22 2012 01:15 SKC wrote:On March 22 2012 01:04 Tobberoth wrote:On March 22 2012 00:55 Iyerbeth wrote:On March 22 2012 00:53 The KY wrote:On March 22 2012 00:37 Andr3 wrote:
As much as I would like a better explanation of the ending, it feels weird that BW has to "fix" it. For good or for ill we should just accept it, else we can start complaining about other works as well.
Would be funny if every other game would have a DLC with a different ending, or a movie or a book. But MAN do I agree with this. The finished product is what it is and I would feel all wrong if they tried to fix it with DLC. ALL wrong. The fact that Bioware is responding to people's criticism with 'oh you don't like it? Ok maybe we'll change it' is extremely weird to me. They promised a product they didn't deliver. Demanding a different ending is the least we should be doing, and as responsible consumers we have every right to. They have the right to choose not to of course, but that would just mean that many people wouldn't buy from them in future. If you watch a movie and dislike the ending, do you contact the director and demand he direct a new ending which conforms to what you want? No? Does anyone do this? Has it ever happened? Then why should you be able to do it here? I never like this comparison. Do you have huge internet forums where viewers discuss movies and even interact with developers? Do movies commonly ask for feedback, and sometimes even include popular demands in the finished product or during the development cycle? You obviously can't compare the level of interaction between developers and the public in those two situations. Is it fine to complain that Bnet doesn't offer some features it probally should have? Is it fine to complain that a developer doesn't include a feature he promised before? That a hero/class/race is boring/overpowered/weak/badly designed/etc? Is it fine to ask for extra features you would like to see in a patch? What exactly can you ask of the developers and what can't you ask? A diferent ending is probally something that never happened before, not to this scale, and some people may be taking it a little to serious, but don't say you can never ask for changes in a game just because movies don't change after release, that's a bad argument. You simply need to realize what is story and what isn't. I want a button in SC2 which shows some more stats... that's not infringing on their vision of the SC2 universe and story, it's just functionality I think would be sweet. Telling them that Kerrigan should have died at the end and that I demand they fix it because I prefer an end where Kerrigan dies, now that's trying to change the story, which is not the same thing at all. (Starcraft 2 isn't a game of choices, it's a straight-up RTS campaign. You are a faceless overseer of units, not a hero)
He wants to say that user feedback that adresses the technical side of games is perfectly okay(doh), but complaining about the story side of games is a bit far-fetched.
What does it matter if it there are choices in the game? Should the player-base just vote on polls and choose the plot we want to see in games then? "Vote for the ending you want to see!"
Let the developers make story, but don't beg them to change it, what's the purpose then ? I'm all for good plots but this isn't the way...
If given enough bad/good feedback the developers should just focus all that criticism towards their next game in the universe, not on the current one -- IF it's story related.
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It's not so much that I want a different ending, I want them to expand on the current ending. I'd like to get some satisfaction, some closure, after spending hundreds of hours interacting with this universe and its characters. Dragon Age had this little epilogue thing where first you talked with your battle buddies, learned about their plans etc, and then afterwards got a series of "Leliana went and did this", "Dwarf ruler failed and plunged the kingdom into a civil war" etc. This should have been the minimum for a long-awaited trilogy finale like ME3.
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On March 22 2012 01:29 Olsson wrote:
EDIT: Also I never understood why the reapers are doing what they did? They kill organics each 50,000 year to stop organics from creating synthetics that will kill them?
Sup dawg I heard synthetics are going to kill you so we synthetics come each 50,000 year to stop synthetics from killing you!
Starchild set the cycle in motion to make sure there will always be organic life in the galaxy. He/she/it was afraid that if, given enough time, synthetics (for example Geth) would eventually wipe out every organic lifeform in the galaxy. By using the Reapers to wipe out all ADVANCED form of life in the galaxy, every 50000 years, it leaves room for new organic species to evolve.
EDIT: And oh yeah, the ending was shit.
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I'm actually enjoying the multiplayer a lot and I would love to play with skilled people to do maps on the gold difficulty. If you are interested and have a headset send me a PM and I'll organize something !
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Does anyone have a link to the original leaked script of the game?
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I'm up for trying some gold matches. As long as the people are good mannered.
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On March 22 2012 01:24 The KY wrote:
I won't argue the rest because I'd just be repeating myself but bolded; what? I said use the weapon periodically. So instead of the totally batshit insane way they use synthetics to kill organics to stop organics making synthetics that would kill organics, just kill the synthetics every so often. It's clearly well within their power.
If you just take out the machines the advanced civilisations would just rebuild them, possibly also making immune from whatever technology you used to wipe them out the first time. Humans and other beings only have advanced technology because of the protheans (and they got some knowledge from the previous civilisations no doubt), so they have all the knowledge without the wisdom they require to stop their own technology wiping them out.
The only reason the reapers are better than potentially the geth killing everything, is that the reapers only kill advanced species, whereas the geth would eventually destroy all organic life (or so the star child believes)
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one thing i found odd about the endings, putting aside all the complaints, was that every ending means shepard dies. in a western rpg the main draw to playing is shaping out a character and then caring about its choices and situations. your supposed to be invested in your character. whether you are trying to be 'yourself' or roleplay someone else. if you die in every outcome, how invested can you be? yes there are other people to be concerned with, but the main focus is on yourself, with the announcement that this 'will' be the last game, combined with your death at the end, it feels so odd to just die.
On March 22 2012 03:13 woody60707 wrote:
I'm up for trying some gold matches. As long as the people are good mannered.
whats the multiplayer difficulty like? does bronze/silver/gold roughly match to normal/hardcore/insane
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On March 22 2012 03:16 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 03:13 woody60707 wrote:
I'm up for trying some gold matches. As long as the people are good mannered. whats the multiplayer difficulty like? does bronze/silver/gold roughly match to normal/hardcore/insa
Pretty much. But as you play you get better weapons, gain levels, get new characters, ect ect. And that has a pretty big impacted on the difficulty.
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On March 22 2012 03:16 turdburgler wrote:
one thing i found odd about the endings, putting aside all the complaints, was that every ending means shepard dies. in a western rpg the main draw to playing is shaping out a character and then caring about its choices and situations. your supposed to be invested in your character. whether you are trying to be 'yourself' or roleplay someone else. if you die in every outcome, how invested can you be? yes there are other people to be concerned with, but the main focus is on yourself, with the announcement that this 'will' be the last game, combined with your death at the end, it feels so odd to just die.
You aren't actually guarenteed to die, kinda. If you have 5,000 EMS+ and choose destruction, you get a 2 second clip of a single breath in the rubble on Earth. How you got there remains another plot hole.
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On March 22 2012 02:32 Trashie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 01:29 Olsson wrote:
EDIT: Also I never understood why the reapers are doing what they did? They kill organics each 50,000 year to stop organics from creating synthetics that will kill them?
Sup dawg I heard synthetics are going to kill you so we synthetics come each 50,000 year to stop synthetics from killing you! Starchild set the cycle in motion to make sure there will always be organic life in the galaxy. He/she/it was afraid that if, given enough time, synthetics (for example Geth) would eventually wipe out every organic lifeform in the galaxy. By using the Reapers to wipe out all ADVANCED form of life in the galaxy, every 50000 years, it leaves room for new organic species to evolve. EDIT: And oh yeah, the ending was shit.
Yeah you're just confirming what he just said. Would be more logical to send the reapers in when there was an actual threat of geth/synthetics. Whatever... 
Also you can't get full EMS without multiplayer, I guess that's what you get for not paying for xbox gold lol
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On March 22 2012 03:16 turdburgler wrote:one thing i found odd about the endings, putting aside all the complaints, was that every ending means shepard dies. in a western rpg the main draw to playing is shaping out a character and then caring about its choices and situations. your supposed to be invested in your character. whether you are trying to be 'yourself' or roleplay someone else. if you die in every outcome, how invested can you be? yes there are other people to be concerned with, but the main focus is on yourself, with the announcement that this 'will' be the last game, combined with your death at the end, it feels so odd to just die. Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 03:13 woody60707 wrote:
I'm up for trying some gold matches. As long as the people are good mannered. whats the multiplayer difficulty like? does bronze/silver/gold roughly match to normal/hardcore/insane
Read the link posted a few pages back http://www.themetagames.com/2012/03/why-you-enjoy-art-and-one-problem-with.html
It's ok if the main character dies, as long as you set out and accomplished something. Tragic hero in a sense. Or at the very least, have closure. BECAUSE you are invested in your character, it's a big deal that he sacrificed himself in pursuit of a goal, and achieved something, however small. But when you spend hours and hours connecting with the world, and then the game just *ends*, that's a slap in the face. It's almost like they shipped the wrong version of the game with a placeholder ending, or they just ran out of development time working on it.
I wonder how the developers feel. You pour blood and tears into one of the greatest trilogies of all time, and then go out like that. They couldn't possibly have thought that ending is a fitting way to end the series. It must have been heart wrenching to hear "this is how it's going to finish, go ahead and develop it". It's not like those who create the games want to release shitty products or make promises they cannot keep, but someone higher up has the final say on the development process.
EDIT: People are probably familiar with FF6. So imagine if the game was the same up until Kefka reached godlike status and turned the world into Ruin, and Celes wakes up, sees what's going on, and watches Cid die. Then as you walk towards the cliff, she jumps off and the game ends. You'll be like WHAT THE FUCK? What happened, and where is everyone? Is anyone going to stand up to Kefka? What did I actually accomplish? Why the hell did I play this game?
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On March 22 2012 03:16 turdburgler wrote:one thing i found odd about the endings, putting aside all the complaints, was that every ending means shepard dies. in a western rpg the main draw to playing is shaping out a character and then caring about its choices and situations. your supposed to be invested in your character. whether you are trying to be 'yourself' or roleplay someone else. if you die in every outcome, how invested can you be? yes there are other people to be concerned with, but the main focus is on yourself, with the announcement that this 'will' be the last game, combined with your death at the end, it feels so odd to just die. Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 03:13 woody60707 wrote:
I'm up for trying some gold matches. As long as the people are good mannered. whats the multiplayer difficulty like? does bronze/silver/gold roughly match to normal/hardcore/insane
I guess you can say that, I'd say that Silver = 5x Bronze, Gold = 5x Silver or something like that, very big differences anyway. (Reapers on Gold are especially ridiculous)
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I actually have more trouble with geth on gold than reapers. Guess that's what I get for playing an asari adept on gold almost exclusively.
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They got smart. I don't mind paying for a DLC as long as they fix the ending.
It can't be anything too major i'd wager, considering the voice acting and all. Can't be worse tho.
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Blocked at work, can you post the article?
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United States5162 Posts
Earlier this month, BioWare responded to Mass Effect 3's "polarizing" ending and later confirmed that it was considering making changes. Now, BioWare co-founder Ray Muzyka has confirmed that new content is in the works to provide additional closure.
In a post on the company's official site, Muzyka said that the team has been carefully following the reactions of fans and has made the decision to respond.
"I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds," Muzyka wrote, "and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team. The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3's endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game."
"Since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game – industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few," he added. "The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I'm honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback."
"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey," Muzyka continued. "You'll hear more on this in April. We're working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we've received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."
He added that "the reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we're planning to directly address it."
Finally, Muzyka addressed the nature of recent fan responses, commenting that "some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary."
Muzyka concluded by reminding fans that BioWare is listening, and that fans should "trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback."
No additional details about the new content have been revealed. If you'd like to discuss Mass Effect 3's ending, be sure to tune into our live Mass Effect 3 Spoilercast on Friday, March 23rd at Noon PST.
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On March 22 2012 04:57 Krowser wrote:Blocked at work, can you post the article?
IGN:
http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/122/1221273p1.html
+ Show Spoiler +
Earlier this month, BioWare responded to Mass Effect 3's "polarizing" ending and later confirmed that it was considering making changes. Now, BioWare co-founder Ray Muzyka has confirmed that new content is in the works to provide additional closure.
In a post on the company's official site, Muzyka said that the team has been carefully following the reactions of fans and has made the decision to respond.
"I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds," Muzyka wrote, "and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team. The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3's endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game."
"Since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game – industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few," he added. "The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I'm honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback."
"Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey," Muzyka continued. "You'll hear more on this in April. We're working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we've received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue."
He added that "the reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we're planning to directly address it."
Finally, Muzyka addressed the nature of recent fan responses, commenting that "some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary."
Muzyka concluded by reminding fans that BioWare is listening, and that fans should "trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback."
No additional details about the new content have been revealed. If you'd like to discuss Mass Effect 3's ending, be sure to tune into our live Mass Effect 3 Spoilercast on Friday, March 23rd at Noon PST.
Bioware's original blog post:
http://blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/
+ Show Spoiler +
To Mass Effect 3 players, from Dr. Ray Muzyka, co-founder of BioWare
As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility.
I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team. The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.
Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that.
To that end, since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game – industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few. The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.
Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.
The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.
Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.
If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team – we respect your opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive feedback as best we can. In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback. As artists, we care about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support.
Thank you for your feedback – we are listening.
Ray
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