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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:11 ZAiNs wrote: Care to explain it to me? What would a post-synthesis human look like? You see it in the ending? Everyone exiting Normandy in the synthesis ending has already gone through the process. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:07 Tobberoth wrote: No, the terms sythentic and organic becomes useless since all are made of the same new form of DNA, so there's no inherent conflict between the two any more. It's not vague at all and I really don't see any problem with it. It's totally vague, weird space magic. "What's that little boy? DNA changing ray? Care to elaborate on that a little? I don't get it, is everyone's minds and bodies totally altered? What happens to synthetics do they get fleshy bits? What about the moral implications of fundamentally changing everyone and thing and in the galaxy? Huh? How does this even solve the problem of organics creating synthetics that destroy them? Couldn't they still do that? What? Seriously can I even have a basic explanation of how this works?" But of course Shepard is all like 'hmm...yes...of course' because he's indoctrinated as shit  | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
The technology of the AI. The question is dumb since you can ask it about any of the reaper technology, how do mass relays work, magic? What happened to everyone in the Citadel? Dead, the citadel blew up. Why does this cause the mass relays to be destroyed? Ask the AI, we don't understand reaper technology. Maybe they simply can't take the energy input, maybe their energy is expended through the process. Where is Joker and the Normandy? How the heck is my party on the ship if they were all on the ground with me? They are fleeing the Sol system because Shepard isn't answering, nothing is happening then suddenly the citadel explodes. They think they are screwed, and they have a pretty good reason. Why is Buzz Aldrin talking to some kid at the end? Hell do I know, several reasons. Explanation of how there can still be DLC etc released. Showing that there's still humanoid life in the future of the universe. Etc. Why does this even matter since everyone in the galaxy is dead anyway (since Arrival showed us that mass relays blowing up has the same scale as a supernova)? mass relay being destroyed by running a planet into it =/= mass relay destroyed by the energy of the crucible, which is the same technology. There's no reason at all to think that the same supernova effect happened here. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:15 Tobberoth wrote: You see it in the ending? Everyone exiting Normandy in the synthesis ending has already gone through the process. Joker having little glowy green veins is not an explanation of how this synthesis works. I don't mean to focus all these queries on you but you are the only guy in the thread who thinks that the magic DNA melding ray isn't totally weird and needs explaining. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
Also, they explain how the mass relays work. It's in the codex. And why does the process of combining the DNA require the mass relays in the first place? | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:21 The KY wrote: Joker having little glowy green veins is not an explanation of how this synthesis works. I don't mean to focus all these queries on you but you are the only guy in the thread who thinks that the magic DNA melding ray isn't totally weird and needs explaining. Of course it isn't telling you how it works, it just shows you the end result. Why SHOULD the game tell you how it works, it isn't telling you how a billion things work, that's why it's sci fi. Make something up yourself, you obviously accepted biotics and mass relays, why not this? | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:23 Ferrose wrote: Huh, I didn't know that Joker was a deserter. Still doesn't explain how everyone on the ground go onto the ship though. Also, they explain how the mass relays work. It's in the codex. How hard is it to explain something like the codex does? "The DNA ray uses cosmic energy built from billions of years of harvesting to forcefully alter every strand of DNA it hits, expending mass relay power to spread it through the galaxy." There, I just made up some bullshit which makes about as much sense as the fact that an adept can shoot a ball of energy which automatically homes in on enemies. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
Biotics is when people manipulate mass effect fields using their brains, and they gain the ability from exposure to element zero while in the womb. You don't even have to read the codex to learn this stuff, either. They have a narrator guy with a cool voice that does it for you. | ||
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deathly rat
United Kingdom911 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:21 The KY wrote: Joker having little glowy green veins is not an explanation of how this synthesis works. I don't mean to focus all these queries on you but you are the only guy in the thread who thinks that the magic DNA melding ray isn't totally weird and needs explaining. I want to add my voice to the people that were satisfied with the ending. I think a lot of people don't realise that Sci-Fi alien technology doesn't have to make sense in the real world, it only has to make sense according to the rules that have been created within the fictional universe. The fact that the being that controls the Reapers is obviously millions of years old and far advanced in technology, so much so that we could never comprehend how it works, easily allows for the synthetic and organic beings to merge. Also, this obviously temporarily ends the problem that is described in which all organic life eventually creates machines that will eventually kill them. In any story there are always unanswered questions, so asking what will become of Joker, and who is that guy at the end is stupid. The main story line regarding the Reapers coming to end life as we know it IS resolved, and that is the only thing that matters. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:30 Ferrose wrote: The codex actually explains most of the science stuff in the universe though, which is why this magic BS doesn't fit with the rest of the series. There is some suspension of disbelief, but they at least give a plausible and/or logical explanation for most of the stuff. Biotics is when people manipulate mass effect fields using their brains, and they gain the ability from exposure to element zero while in the womb. You don't even have to read the codex to learn this stuff, either. They have a narrator guy with a cool voice that does it for you. They could do the exact same with the synthesis DNA ray, but it would obviously spoil the game since it's the last thing that happens. I mean, you can't possibly think that biotic magic is justified and DNA ray isn't just because one happens to be mentioned in the codex? How does element zero give people the ability to create mass effects with their brains? Why does it need to emanate from their bodies, why can't they just create a singularity out of thin air? You can find ridiculous holes everywhere, I'm surprised you feel space magic is justified only when it's mentioned in the codex. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:09 Praetorial wrote: Er...I actually was really confused by this ending, as it implied the creation of a new type of DNA. Does that literally mean that every living thing in the universe becomes partly machine and vice versa? Because that would be so weird I can't even express it. Yes that's what it literally means - EDI adopts a partly-biological DNA structure and Joker adopts a partly synthetic DNA structure, as does everyone else including all plant life (as you see in the end clip). Yes its weird...but I think the point is its supposed to incorporate the player's imagination. If DNA could be rewritten to incorporate electronic components, what would it look like? How would it work? Sure its vague but it doesn't detract from the experience IMO. I guess there are some people who like imagining/dreaming about how that would work and other sci-fi possibilities, and I'm one of them  . Also an important point: Keep in mind that the catalyst is obviously light-years ahead of the other races in terms of technological capabilities. Who knows what they can accomplish?Also to respond to an earlier comment, I think the game actually created a more interesting ending than one where Shepard determines the ending based on his choices throughout the game. It kind of surprises the player - shows you that the masters of the universe (I assume this to be the catalyst) doesn't necessarily have to bend to your whim and respond to your ideals, just because you want them to or think they should. Its interesting to me that the themes of cooperation and looking over differences (i.e. geth/quarian war) may work to some extent in the game, but that its a meaningless, temporary peace when looked at from a 'wiser' perspective of the machine-gods. It may not have been a happy ending in the sense that your choices determine the ending as you'd want them to, but it certainly was an interesting ending for me, and actually quite rewarding. Reading about how so many other people hated it was depressing though. Oh well, at least there are a few other people who enjoyed the ending | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:26 Tobberoth wrote: How hard is it to explain something like the codex does? "The DNA ray uses cosmic energy built from billions of years of harvesting to forcefully alter every strand of DNA it hits, expending mass relay power to spread it through the galaxy." There, I just made up some bullshit which makes about as much sense as the fact that an adept can shoot a ball of energy which automatically homes in on enemies. Mass relays and a lot of the technology in Mass Effect makes sense in the context of the universe, but this dumb synthetic-organic-DNA-mixer-beam feels completely out of place and lazy. Just because it's a sci-fi universe it doesn't mean anything goes. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:24 Tobberoth wrote: Of course it isn't telling you how it works, it just shows you the end result. Why SHOULD the game tell you how it works, it isn't telling you how a billion things work, that's why it's sci fi. Make something up yourself, you obviously accepted biotics and mass relays, why not this? Biotics and mass relays are explained in the codex. They don't work scientifically in the real world obviously because it's fiction but they are not explained as magic and they are explained AT ALL. It's a fucking deus ex machina. 'and then Shepard got to the Citadel and turned everyone into hybrids THE END.' How are you satisfied with that? Changing the DNA of everyone in the galaxy to end a trilogy is a fucking important thing for players to comprehend. If we're not told how it works even on a basic level then it makes no sense and it gives no closure. I don't need an in depth run through of how the DNA structure changes I need an insight into the consequences of this option, the reasoning behind it and yes the basics of what the fuck is actually happening. With a mass relay I know that the idea is to use the (sci fi device of) Eezo subjected to an electrical current to change the mass of a certain area enabling fast travel through super low mass areas. With the synthetic option I get; a beam changes peoples DNA. Why? How? In what way? And what about how the synthesis option even means to the idea of the cycle of creating synthetics that eventually destroy their creators? How does this prevent that from happening again, someone could still create pure synthetics in a few hundred millenia. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:31 deathly rat wrote: I want to add my voice to the people that were satisfied with the ending. I think a lot of people don't realise that Sci-Fi alien technology doesn't have to make sense in the real world, it only has to make sense according to the rules that have been created within the fictional universe. The fact that the being that controls the Reapers is obviously millions of years old and far advanced in technology, so much so that we could never comprehend how it works, easily allows for the synthetic and organic beings to merge. Also, this obviously temporarily ends the problem that is described in which all organic life eventually creates machines that will eventually kill them. In any story there are always unanswered questions, so asking what will become of Joker, and who is that guy at the end is stupid. The main story line regarding the Reapers coming to end life as we know it IS resolved, and that is the only thing that matters. I think the problem so many of us have is that we don't think it does make sense according to the ideas created in this fictional universe. Saying the reapers have lots of technology that is unknowable to humans is not good enough for me. Deus ex machina. And as I've said it's not the technical side of what the fuck is happening that concerns me, it's how there is so little explanation as to what actually IS happening. What is the implication of your choice? Perhaps I would have picked it if I'd had any idea what is was going to do, and the cutscene left me little the wiser. Also, this obviously temporarily ends the problem that is described in which all organic life eventually creates machines that will eventually kill them. Temporarily, exactly. So it doesn't solve the problem. Not that the problem makes any god damn sense anyway. | ||
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Szubie
United Kingdom294 Posts
On March 21 2012 23:31 deathly rat wrote: I want to add my voice to the people that were satisfied with the ending. I think a lot of people don't realise that Sci-Fi alien technology doesn't have to make sense in the real world, it only has to make sense according to the rules that have been created within the fictional universe. The fact that the being that controls the Reapers is obviously millions of years old and far advanced in technology, so much so that we could never comprehend how it works, easily allows for the synthetic and organic beings to merge. Also, this obviously temporarily ends the problem that is described in which all organic life eventually creates machines that will eventually kill them. In any story there are always unanswered questions, so asking what will become of Joker, and who is that guy at the end is stupid. The main story line regarding the Reapers coming to end life as we know it IS resolved, and that is the only thing that matters. Yeah, I agree. I quite liked the ending actually, very emotional and touching. I also chose synthesis, seemed the best choice to me. And yeah, reaper technologies, like the reapers themselves, are meant to be way waaay beyond anything else encountered in the universe. After all, they are the ones who reaped countless civilisations over centuries, and all "modern" technology in Mass Effect is based off of the things the Reapers left behind (the gates, the Citadel...). The way I see it, with the Reaper technology being destroyed (gates, citadel), the galaxy's civilisations will be free to progress and evolve naturally, not controlled and shaped by the influence of the Reapers. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
How the crucible solves the problem isn't important, the fact that the crucible exists has already doomed the series to a deus ex machina ending... which isn't surprising because there was no other way to do it, there was no way to beat the reapers conventionally and if shepard somehow managed to do that, everyone would hate the ending anyway since it would make no sense that the reapers are unbeatable yet shepard beats them anyway. | ||
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Lemonerer
Israel135 Posts
The way I see it: Blue (control) ending: Shepard gives up his phisycal body while joining his mind with the one of the Reapers. After all the sacrifices and fights Shepard eventually became the Reapers leader, living forever as the new catalyst. Red (destroy) ending: Shepard decides to destroy the Reapers once and for all, you have two possible outcomes of this: Either the shockwave that destroys the reapers is so strong that it wipes everything in its path (Big Ben) destroying probably most of the galaxy with it. This is the ''Bad" ending. (End of the galaxy) The second outcome is that the explosion is some kind of an anti AI wave. destroying all the AI in the galaxy (includes not only the Reapers but also the Geth and probably EDI), this ending ensures that there will be no more Reapers ever but comes at the cost of dear friends and allies. Also in this ending Shepard might even survive! (blue babys) Green (Synthetic) ending: Shepard sacrifices himself,using the power of the crucible to merge all organic life with synthetic. This allows everyone that Shepard ever cared about to survive and ends the war, but is the cost too high? (Does these units still have a soul?) Every ending you get will also destroy the relays, rebuilding will take ages... (Did you really think that the greatest war in the history of the universe will just end with no long term affects? Kinda rediculus IMO) Those endings are really different from each other if you look at them like that. These are good and epic ways to end the story of Commander Shepard. I do believe that if BW would introduce these ideas of possible outcomes slowly during the game and not in the last five minutes people would accept them much easier, maybe thats their mistake. Oh and about plot holes, you cannot complain about the many plot holes in the ending while ignoring the rest of the game. There are so many plot holes since the beggining of the trilogy. It is a trend of lazy writing in video games that you can see all over Mass Effect. The plot holes are not somthing to make theories about, they are just plot holes. I think this is what BW truly meant with the story, everything that they will change is just surrendering to the pressure of the community. Oh and BTW I really hope this pressure is not too much and EA will not just decide to end the Mass Effect universe forever (Or at least not try new stories, only multiplayer and side missions). That would suck bad. | ||
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ApocAlypsE007
Israel1007 Posts
There was some interesting bit suggesting that this isn't the last Mass Effect game. Tune in in April... Probably an extended ending DLC that I will pirate... | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On March 22 2012 00:11 ApocAlypsE007 wrote: Message from BioWare's co founder There was some interesting bit suggesting that this isn't the last Mass Effect game. Tune in in April... Probably an extended ending DLC that I will pirate... Well at least they seem to be responding to the feedback and might deliver what we're all hoping for. Hope still shines. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
Would be funny if every other game would have a DLC with a different ending, or a movie or a book. | ||
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