EPT[1.1] Team Liquid Minecraft Server - Page 194
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URfavHO
United States514 Posts
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simmion
United States34 Posts
On February 14 2012 12:37 Finality wrote: I've been working on an under-lake lair, we gotta link them up or something! Cool stuff! Its pretty hard to see from the map, Im extending under the ocean/lake around : 786, -314 Depending on where you are we could probably manage that, maybe made an under-water rail system sort of thing would be sweet :0) I got my secret door done, quicker than i thought, i had to do it differently than i originally intended but still a nice effect using a few sticky pistons. had some extra slime balls so made a shutter for my back window too, my house is pretty stealthy :0) | ||
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
On February 07 2012 08:17 Aeres wrote: I refuse to permit an update without those plugins. I'd be fine with it if it were only Multiverse and WorldEdit, but the other three are damn near mandatory. Do you still refuse if we miss the entirety of 1.1 due to waiting? While I personally haven't been on due to one computer getting stolen and the other breaking, I can't imagine that the server will thrive if we stay hopelessly behind on updates again. | ||
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
On February 15 2012 07:39 Melancholia wrote: Do you still refuse if we miss the entirety of 1.1 due to waiting? While I personally haven't been on due to one computer getting stolen and the other breaking, I can't imagine that the server will thrive if we stay hopelessly behind on updates again. Given the fact that we're completely reliant on Bukkit updating the relevant plugins, and the speed at which Jeb and the gang are pushing out new content, I think that even under optimal conditions, we're going to be at least one patch version behind all the time. Additionally, I feel that having a secure server set on a previous patch is far better than a server that's up-to-date, yet vulnerable to untraceable griefing and other problems. So if it were up to me and me alone, then yes, I'd skip out on 1.1 in necessary. However, you are 100% correct that this sort of mandatory delay is what killed the last server, and I'm sure none of us desire yet another server death. Therefore, if it comes to a point where the vast majority of the players were to clamor for an update despite a lack of functional Bukkit plugins, I'd be fine discussing it with Serejai in order to assess the potential risks of updating. Unfortunately, I haven't been in contact with Serejai as much as I would have liked, but it's something we should consider doing, even if I don't like it. Keep in mind that I don't enjoy waiting for Bukkit any more than you do, but in my opinion, waiting is a necessary evil due to the server protection that API offers. I'd love to trust that everyone and anyone who logs onto the server does so with no malicious intent, but the truth of it is that such a scenario is little more than a fantasy. If the day arrives where all server denizens can be trusted completely, then I'll gladly tell Bukkit to stuff it — but until then, I'd rather not jeopardize the integrity of the server by giving up on the required plugins. | ||
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
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Finality
172 Posts
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Melancholia
United States717 Posts
In the process of checking the OP for the command (it doesn't seem to be there) I realized that the description of the server is perhaps a bit misleading at this point. As in, most of it hasn't been implemented and likely will not for months at least. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On February 15 2012 08:50 Aeres wrote: Given the fact that we're completely reliant on Bukkit updating the relevant plugins, and the speed at which Jeb and the gang are pushing out new content, I think that even under optimal conditions, we're going to be at least one patch version behind all the time. Additionally, I feel that having a secure server set on a previous patch is far better than a server that's up-to-date, yet vulnerable to untraceable griefing and other problems. So if it were up to me and me alone, then yes, I'd skip out on 1.1 in necessary. However, you are 100% correct that this sort of mandatory delay is what killed the last server, and I'm sure none of us desire yet another server death. Therefore, if it comes to a point where the vast majority of the players were to clamor for an update despite a lack of functional Bukkit plugins, I'd be fine discussing it with Serejai in order to assess the potential risks of updating. Unfortunately, I haven't been in contact with Serejai as much as I would have liked, but it's something we should consider doing, even if I don't like it. Keep in mind that I don't enjoy waiting for Bukkit any more than you do, but in my opinion, waiting is a necessary evil due to the server protection that API offers. I'd love to trust that everyone and anyone who logs onto the server does so with no malicious intent, but the truth of it is that such a scenario is little more than a fantasy. If the day arrives where all server denizens can be trusted completely, then I'll gladly tell Bukkit to stuff it — but until then, I'd rather not jeopardize the integrity of the server by giving up on the required plugins. Yes, I agree with the fact that fundamental plugins have to work for a server to function (anti-griefing/chest protection/logging). There point where I feel you and/or Sere might be a bit overcautious (does this come from previous bad experiences with early releases?) are "non-official versions". As Aylear said in his post about the TL MLP Minecraft Server in this post, World Edit + World Guard seem to work over there. Hawkeye sounds at first glance as if it does the same as LogBlock. That'd mean the only things (which still are damn important) missing are Multiverse (which just had a build released) and LWC. ---> Once a solid build for LWC is out, it sounds cool to update. Basicly this is how I see it: All those minecraft plugins are maintained by nerds who try to do their job as quickly as they can. However, since none of them makes a real profit (correct me if I'm wrong) with this stuff a "100% stable version" isn't high on their priority list at all. However, unless multiple servers bitch that shit isn't working I see no reason to not use the dev-builds. If 95% stable with a crash or restart here and there means we're about 1 month behind the official release vs a 100% stable which means 3+ months behind the official release... I'd vote for the 95% any day of the week. =P PS: I have fuck no idea at all about running a MC server & you guys do a great job, this is just kinda how it looks to me from the outside. | ||
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Aylear
Norway3988 Posts
Just wanted to let you know that LWC just got a new release. Go go gadget server update!  | ||
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Archas
United States6531 Posts
Additionally, we spoke some about the current state of the server world. As you guys know, we intended to implement mobs that weren't a complete triviality after day 2. However, we were unable to get a working plugin for such for a long time, and we abandoned the idea. Fortunately, a new plugin has been released with basically all of the features we were searching for, in regards to increasing the difficulty of combat. Monsters that can call for help, track you from larger distances, basic health and damage modifications, the ability to break player torches, stuff like that. But there's something else to consider. Serejai and I think that the best course of action to revitalize server activity is to make a whole new world for the RPG content that is outlined in the opening post. Things like harder mobs, dungeons, quests, new items, new blocks, and other stuff. The current map will still be available exactly as it is now, for those who simply wish to build without having to deal with all that fancy jazz. TL;DR: Updating to 1.1; using dev builds; adding a new, start-from-scratch world with harder monsters and various RPG elements; current server world will remain, and players can switch between the two. EDIT: Changed this post after some more talking with Serejai and other players. | ||
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Zerbra
50 Posts
A) Yes -> Start from scratch, save the old world with multiverse as creative mode No -> Start from scratch, save the old world with multiverse as another distinct survival world B) Yes -> Start from scratch, save the old world with multiverse as creative mode No -> Start from scratch, obliterate the remains of the old world Can there be a second vote: Yes -> Start from scratch when ready for 1.2 (anvil world, 256 max height), save the old world with multiverse as creative mode No -> Start from scratch when ready for 1.2 (anvil world, 256 max height), obliterate the old world. I don't think 1.1 has enough new content to justify starting over. The reason Aeres gave isn't a real reason: + Show Spoiler + Due to the nature of multilplayer servers (a big spawn town is always created), our original ideas for injecting supermobs into the world were rendered null. ...what. So in order to denullify supermobs, a map restart is necessary because a big spawn town won't exist. But "due to the nature of multiplayer servers (a big spawn town is always created) . . . , sounds like a restart for the sake a restarting. 1.2, on the other hand contains, within the world generation algorithm, jungle biomes. So unless you guys restart again for 1.2, you'd/we'd be ignoring the jungle. I propose waiting until 1.2 before even considering anything drastic. Poll: Hold your Horses before Talking about Map Restarts Wait for stable 1.2 before we talk map wiping (10) Idc, let's start over. (I like fighting for my life) (3) 13 total votes Your vote: Hold your Horses before Talking about Map Restarts (Vote): Wait for stable 1.2 before we talk map wiping | ||
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Minecraft
25 Posts
On February 16 2012 07:16 Zerbra wrote: So what's this vote for: A) Yes -> Start from scratch, save the old world with multiverse as creative mode No -> Start from scratch, save the old world with multiverse as another distinct survival world B) Yes -> Start from scratch, save the old world with multiverse as creative mode No -> Start from scratch, obliterate the remains of the old world Can there be a second vote: Yes -> Start from scratch when ready for 1.2 (anvil world, 256 max height), save the old world with multiverse as creative mode No -> Start from scratch when ready for 1.2 (anvil world, 256 max height), obliterate the old world. I don't think 1.1 has enough new content to justify starting over. The reason Aeres gave isn't a real reason: + Show Spoiler + Due to the nature of multilplayer servers (a big spawn town is always created), our original ideas for injecting supermobs into the world were rendered null. ...what. So in order to denullify supermobs, a map restart is necessary because a big spawn town won't exist. But "due to the nature of multiplayer servers (a big spawn town is always created) . . . , sounds like a restart for the sake a restarting. 1.2, on the other hand contains, within the world generation algorithm, jungle biomes. So unless you guys restart again for 1.2, you'd/we'd be ignoring the jungle. I propose waiting until 1.2 before even considering anything drastic. There are always going to be new biomes and new blocks. Ideally there would be a complete world reset with each new patch that added them but we tried that in the past and it was about 50/50 as far as reception goes. Currently, with the smaller population, it seems to be closer to 25/75 in favor of not resetting the world. We're just going to have to ignore new biomes entirely because there's no real solution to adding them unless we wipe the world every single patch, which most people don't want. We're looking at ways to manually add them in but as far as world resets go new biomes should not be factored in. One way or another I am adding a new RPG-themed world (what the current world was originally supposed to be... custom mobs, dungeons, etc) because new plugins have been created in the last month that finally enable us to do what we originally intended to do with the server. Unfortunately it's not something we can just add in to the current world. The spawn area example that Aeres used has to do with our storyline. You were supposed to spawn in a cave which would lead you off on quests and whatnot if you chose to do them. Since the spawn area has been built into a city I would have to find another spot to start things off at. The other issue is that the world was going to be dynamic and I can't simply go in and start doing that with the current one due to how much it has been built up. To compare it to an MMO or an RPG... you guys are already max level before I was able to add any leveling content. The normal solution would just be a full wipe but I don't want to do that so the solution proposed above is to simply shift the current world off to the side and create a new RPG-themed world with our original intentions. New players to the server would log in to a lobby world and could choose to enter the RPG world or the Survival world. Instead of just having both playstyles in one big world (which was the original intention) I'm just going to add another world to handle the RPG stuff which also gives me a lot more freedom to make sure it meets expectations. The poll is whether or not you guys want the current world to remain as is or if you want anything modified. For example, all of the mod-created cities and towns can be removed as they will likely be ported to the new RPG world. Monsters could be removed, blocks could break at increased speeds, and custom plugins could be added (like Runecraft or something). Basically I don't really have to make sure it complies with my RPG stuff anymore so a lot of things could be modified. The biggest thing was the gamemode because monsters are currently trivial and you guys are basically just building things. It's also likely a lot of you will migrate over to the RPG world at some point. Consider it an expansion pack like an MMO would have. Sure, some people will stay level 60 but most will want to move up to 70 and do new things. Point being the world and all of your work isn't going anywhere, but I'd like to know if you guys would prefer any changes to how the world functions. Another example is that I could fully enable the Nether where you could build your own portals (since it would no longer adversely affect my RPG agenda). Again, creative mode was just an idea but you guys can throw out anything you want or the world can just stay as-is. Because of multi-world support and the likes we have a lot of freedom with how to handle things so just post any ideas you have. | ||
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Minecraft
25 Posts
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Raktavijan
Finland48 Posts
I understand that a lot people have been on the server far longer than I have and have spent way more time on building their stuff. It's great that Serejai gives the option of keeping the current world for those who want to keep it, but I'm in no way attached to it and would rather have a challenge even if it means that I'd be losing valuable materials, weapons, armor and such. I'm excited and hope this'll come to fruition as soon as possible. -Raktavijan Edit: Also, I fully support the idea of adding more content in the form of Runecraft for example or in similar fashion what the guys on the MLP server have, mana and spells. That's something I wondered about, why it wasn't present on this server to begin with. | ||
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Kooha
United States25 Posts
Also, if you're opening the same exact map on the new survival server, I would suggest finding a way to either use the stronghold we have already found, or to move it completely (if that's possible) so that people don't know where it is right from the get-go. | ||
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julianto
2292 Posts
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URfavHO
United States514 Posts
On February 16 2012 09:53 julianto wrote: Well in light of this occasion, can anyone give me a block(s) of mycelium with their silk touch tool? I have gone ahead and obtained 32 bricks of it from your area. Contact me or Kooha to arrange for you to collect it. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On February 16 2012 06:04 Aeres wrote: Serejai and I had a little talk on IRC about updating to 1.1. In the end, we felt that it was best to just go ahead and update; since interest in the server has been far less than we originally anticipated before launching it, using dev builds for plugins carries fewer risks. In a couple of days, expect 1.1 to be up and running. Additionally, we spoke some about the current state of the server world. As you guys know, we intended to implement mobs that weren't a complete triviality after day 2. However, we were unable to get a working plugin for such for a long time, and we abandoned the idea. Fortunately, a new plugin has been released with basically all of the features we were searching for, in regards to increasing the difficulty of combat. Monsters that can call for help, track you from larger distances, basic health and damage modifications, the ability to break player torches, stuff like that. But there's something else to consider. Serejai and I think that the best course of action to revitalize server activity is to make a whole new world for the RPG content that is outlined in the opening post. Things like harder mobs, dungeons, quests, new items, new blocks, and other stuff. The current map will still be available exactly as it is now, for those who simply wish to build without having to deal with all that fancy jazz. TL;DR: Updating to 1.1; using dev builds; adding a new, start-from-scratch world with harder monsters and various RPG elements; current server world will remain, and players can switch between the two. EDIT: Changed this post after some more talking with Serejai and other players. I like how this sounds. Also good to hear that the old world will stay survival and all, I'd have raged if you made it creative. =P I've got one suggestion for the new world stuff though, in case it's possible to realize that: I would add portals that "randomly" spawned on all the major continents of the old world which all connect to the new starting point of the RPG world. Whether you can bring items one way or another is your choice, but I'd prefer it a lot if it was integrated in such a smooth way instead of some lobby room after login. This would give the feeling of it being "one big piece" instead of two different game modes which, in theory, could be on different servers and no one would care about it. For the old world: Removal of admin created towns IF stuff isn't built with them in mind sounds like a good idea. Speaking for myself e.g., harbor makes quite some sense considering why I chose my location as I did. I've got no idea if it's similar for other people in other locations, but if a prebuilt town is like completely remote I'd vote for just removing it. Also for new biomes, if I remember correctly you said it is possible to extend the current world once we are filling it up. Can't we just add new areas which include the new biomes and stuff? PS: The story excuse for why it has to be a new world is bad btw. =P ... As long as people end in some new area without items it doesn't really matter if it's from spawn, jumping down a waterfall or having seen an enderdragon. MAYBE it would be even possible to add the RPG part to the current world considering that. Might wanna give that a thought or two. PPS: Zerbras post makes like fuck no sense if you don't know what Aeres' post looked like before the edit. Real ninja. =D | ||
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julianto
2292 Posts
On February 16 2012 10:48 URfavHO wrote: i think that changing between worlds presents the optimal solution. I would likely migrate to the new world fairly quickly. I have gone ahead and obtained 32 bricks of it from your area. Contact me or Kooha to arrange for you to collect it. Thanks a lot for the mycelium! Wool farming in 1.1 will be more leisurely now. No need to get inside the fence and get swarmed by dozens of sheep. Just shear, turn on the flooding mechanism, and wait for... many minutes. Jungles and 3x max altitude will be awesome. Can you just transplant a jungle biome into the new RPG server whenever you upgrade to 1.2? Then the 1.1 server will not be for naught. | ||
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Minecraft
25 Posts
The lobby would basically be a separate small world which just has a few portals (which can also lead to additional worlds later). You'd likely have a command that can teleport you back there so if you're in the Survival world and want to try out the RPG world you just teleport to the lobby and switch worlds. Essentially it's the same way myself and Aeres/Zap change worlds if we need to... but instead of just typing /tp world you would type /tp lobby and then go through a portal - mostly for cosmetic reasons, but also because a lobby gives me a great opportunity to do some other things such as in-game command lists, rules, message board for the server, etc. Stuff we used to have in Spawnville but don't on this server because there isn't really a spawn town. You wouldn't immediately log in to the lobby every time. It would be a one-time thing when you first join the server before registering and afterwards only when you wanted to change game modes. Think of it as having two different characters because each world would have its own inventory slots and whatnot (so you cant mine on the easy Survival world and bring it all over to the RPG world, etc - though custom items in the RPG world might be allowed on the Survival world). As for jungles... there are a few terrain mods I'm looking at that may be able to assist with manually spawning biomes but the short answer is no; you cannot transplant a biome. Basically even if you copy/pasted an entire biome it would simply turn into a different biome. An example of this is that if you copied a desert biome and pasted it somewhere else - say, where a tundra biome is - it would look like a desert biome but it would still snow there and any trees you plant would grow into tundra trees. The biome regions are hardcoded into the world and you can't really change them to my knowledge. In the case of a jungle biome I could transplant all of the blocks to make it look like a jungle... but it would spawn normal trees and there would be no ocelots because it wouldn't actually be a jungle biome as far as the game is concerned. Two solutions to biomes that get added in patches and do not involve a world wipe: a) Map is extended in one area and regenerated over and over until the biome spawns. This loses the pretty circular map and turns it into something that looks like mickey mouse, but it works. It could also be created away from the current map and connected via a thin strip of terrain and access via a train. Would look something like O---o as far as the world goes. b) New world is created specifically for the new biome. This has some pros and cons, but overall I think it would work out fine. This also allows me to theme the areas. For example, when 1.2 comes out I could make a new jungle world and theme it like an expansion for an MMO would be. Add a new dungeon, some new quests, some new mobs... quite literally an expansion pack for the server. The drawback, obviously, is that it would require a portal to get there and it likely wouldn't be a good place to build a home as nobody would be able to see it from the main world. Anyway, working on getting things set up now. Feel free to stop by on IRC and voice any concerns, suggestions, etc. | ||
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