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Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
August 10 2012 20:44 GMT
#3801
tbh I would cut something in the board for another land for deck you bring in Tamiyo, Gideon and Sphinx in for. hitting 4 with 21 lands is tough enough let alone 5 and 6.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
August 10 2012 21:22 GMT
#3802
Hmm, I haven't really had any problems in play testing hitting lands required, even when I've borded in the higher cost stuff. In practice ponder /snapped ponder has let me find lands if required. I worried if my land base was too small, but so far in playtesting it's worked fine
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
August 10 2012 21:44 GMT
#3803
No point. Just play what Gindy played if you expect mirrors. Basically, he took out the Angel interactions and went Heroes of Bladehold since that will actually beat most Green decks if it sticks as opposed to working really hard with Angel.

Like Delver from the 100 or so games I have tested with the 19-land Japanese lists, does NOT want to be flooded at all. Tamiyo/Gideon/Sphinx is just bleh. There was never a situation where I really wanted any of those cards outside of being flooded.

The only real decks you have to worry about is Pod/Zombies/Green/Mirror. You have positive sideboard options for any of the options. Like other players have already pretty much agreed the core is set at this point for Delver, there are about 3 or 4 cards you can move in and out to give you better Game 1s depending on the meta, namely the equipment.

As for you list, I suggest you go up to 3 Dismembers and 3 Purges in the sideboard. Zombies/Green will be your toughest match-ups. You need to be able to remove Messengers/Crawlers permanently and you need to be able to kill other Angels and Archdruid. Play Geist over Splicer if you aren't going to play Angel, the Splicer is significantly worse without Angel.

I don't like double S:WP and rather have a 1/1 split of Sword and Pike. Pike let's you slow roll your threats.

Also that mana base looks atrocious to casting WW2 for Bladehold.
Get it by your hands...
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
August 11 2012 00:22 GMT
#3804
On August 11 2012 06:44 Judicator wrote:
No point. Just play what Gindy played if you expect mirrors. Basically, he took out the Angel interactions and went Heroes of Bladehold since that will actually beat most Green decks if it sticks as opposed to working really hard with Angel.

Like Delver from the 100 or so games I have tested with the 19-land Japanese lists, does NOT want to be flooded at all. Tamiyo/Gideon/Sphinx is just bleh. There was never a situation where I really wanted any of those cards outside of being flooded.

The only real decks you have to worry about is Pod/Zombies/Green/Mirror. You have positive sideboard options for any of the options. Like other players have already pretty much agreed the core is set at this point for Delver, there are about 3 or 4 cards you can move in and out to give you better Game 1s depending on the meta, namely the equipment.

As for you list, I suggest you go up to 3 Dismembers and 3 Purges in the sideboard. Zombies/Green will be your toughest match-ups. You need to be able to remove Messengers/Crawlers permanently and you need to be able to kill other Angels and Archdruid. Play Geist over Splicer if you aren't going to play Angel, the Splicer is significantly worse without Angel.

I don't like double S:WP and rather have a 1/1 split of Sword and Pike. Pike let's you slow roll your threats.

Also that mana base looks atrocious to casting WW2 for Bladehold.

I like the angel interactions so I'm probably going to run the angel version over the giest version.

I definitely can do the pike/swp instead of two s:wp's.

I usually do cavern for human, so I haven't had too much of a problem casting the heros, with 9 white sources not including caverns.

So you suggest pulling tamiyo, gideon and sphinx for the two extra dismembers and the one extra purge?
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
ODKStevez
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland1225 Posts
August 11 2012 01:16 GMT
#3805
I love magic, especially forest cards. Used to play Yu Gi Oh and Pokémon TCGs but now I am completely hooked on this game in the real world. Not a fan of it on computers though.
Luppa <3
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
August 11 2012 04:52 GMT
#3806
On August 11 2012 09:22 Durp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 06:44 Judicator wrote:
No point. Just play what Gindy played if you expect mirrors. Basically, he took out the Angel interactions and went Heroes of Bladehold since that will actually beat most Green decks if it sticks as opposed to working really hard with Angel.

Like Delver from the 100 or so games I have tested with the 19-land Japanese lists, does NOT want to be flooded at all. Tamiyo/Gideon/Sphinx is just bleh. There was never a situation where I really wanted any of those cards outside of being flooded.

The only real decks you have to worry about is Pod/Zombies/Green/Mirror. You have positive sideboard options for any of the options. Like other players have already pretty much agreed the core is set at this point for Delver, there are about 3 or 4 cards you can move in and out to give you better Game 1s depending on the meta, namely the equipment.

As for you list, I suggest you go up to 3 Dismembers and 3 Purges in the sideboard. Zombies/Green will be your toughest match-ups. You need to be able to remove Messengers/Crawlers permanently and you need to be able to kill other Angels and Archdruid. Play Geist over Splicer if you aren't going to play Angel, the Splicer is significantly worse without Angel.

I don't like double S:WP and rather have a 1/1 split of Sword and Pike. Pike let's you slow roll your threats.

Also that mana base looks atrocious to casting WW2 for Bladehold.

I like the angel interactions so I'm probably going to run the angel version over the giest version.

I definitely can do the pike/swp instead of two s:wp's.

I usually do cavern for human, so I haven't had too much of a problem casting the heros, with 9 white sources not including caverns.

So you suggest pulling tamiyo, gideon and sphinx for the two extra dismembers and the one extra purge?


Well ask yourself when you had 5 lands and realistically can cast Tamiyo or Gideon. If you expect ramp, then by all means play it. But its not like your MU against it is bad. If you go back to the Angel line keep in mind that your MU against Green is much worse since Angel does very little against competent pilots.
Get it by your hands...
OoFuzer
Profile Joined July 2008
Chile436 Posts
August 11 2012 05:53 GMT
#3807
Guys, if I want to have a decent deck and cards to trade, how much have I to invest? $200? (MTG:O version, i dont have time to play it in RL) I dont want to play competitvly.
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
August 11 2012 12:58 GMT
#3808
On August 11 2012 10:16 ODKStevez wrote:
I love magic, especially forest cards. Used to play Yu Gi Oh and Pokémon TCGs but now I am completely hooked on this game in the real world. Not a fan of it on computers though.


Same. There's something about playing in real-life which makes it feel... "authentic" and special.

Still, it's nice to play with friends without having to drop hundreds of dollars into a deck, like online lets you do, lol.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 14:58:14
August 11 2012 14:57 GMT
#3809
So, looking forward to RtR. Looking to bring back Bant in all its glory. Hopefully Birds is reprinted in RtR since...it was in Ravnica when it was excluded from the core set. Other than that, another Noble Hierarch type card would be swell :p

Obviously includes:

Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Sublime Archangel
Cavern of Souls
War Cathedral (mana a little iffy...., but exalted...)
Rancor
Sigarda, Host of Herons

That's just a base...so looking forward to RtR. Obviously needs some good counter/removals, which I am hoping RtR will provide.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
August 11 2012 18:28 GMT
#3810
On August 11 2012 23:57 Wegandi wrote:
So, looking forward to RtR. Looking to bring back Bant in all its glory. Hopefully Birds is reprinted in RtR since...it was in Ravnica when it was excluded from the core set. Other than that, another Noble Hierarch type card would be swell :p

Obviously includes:

Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Sublime Archangel
Cavern of Souls
War Cathedral (mana a little iffy...., but exalted...)
Rancor
Sigarda, Host of Herons

That's just a base...so looking forward to RtR. Obviously needs some good counter/removals, which I am hoping RtR will provide.


Good removal and counters aren't usually provided in blocks, but rather Core sets. Wizards pretty much have said they do not like Mana Leak's design and we're never sniffing a 2 mana counter all ever again, nor will we see anything like Spell Pierce again, so yeah, chances of a good counter are pretty short. Deprive maybe the best thing we'll get. They're not letting Snapcaster co-exist with a solid counter spell in standard and I don't really blame them.
Get it by your hands...
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
August 11 2012 20:23 GMT
#3811
On August 12 2012 03:28 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 23:57 Wegandi wrote:
So, looking forward to RtR. Looking to bring back Bant in all its glory. Hopefully Birds is reprinted in RtR since...it was in Ravnica when it was excluded from the core set. Other than that, another Noble Hierarch type card would be swell :p

Obviously includes:

Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Sublime Archangel
Cavern of Souls
War Cathedral (mana a little iffy...., but exalted...)
Rancor
Sigarda, Host of Herons

That's just a base...so looking forward to RtR. Obviously needs some good counter/removals, which I am hoping RtR will provide.


Good removal and counters aren't usually provided in blocks, but rather Core sets. Wizards pretty much have said they do not like Mana Leak's design and we're never sniffing a 2 mana counter all ever again, nor will we see anything like Spell Pierce again, so yeah, chances of a good counter are pretty short. Deprive maybe the best thing we'll get. They're not letting Snapcaster co-exist with a solid counter spell in standard and I don't really blame them.


I want spells like my favorite spell of all time spellsnare back :<
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
matiK23
Profile Joined May 2011
United States963 Posts
August 11 2012 20:41 GMT
#3812
how does someone who is curious about MtG get started in this game?
Without a paddle up shit creek.
arioch
Profile Joined May 2010
England403 Posts
August 11 2012 20:45 GMT
#3813
On August 12 2012 05:41 matiK23 wrote:
how does someone who is curious about MtG get started in this game?


In my opinion the easiest way is to buy an intro deck, find a store close to you and play some Friday Night Magic...

http://locator.wizards.com/#brand=magic

Often stores will also run limited draft events weekly to help you build you collection.

Paper magic is the best way to start and see if you like it cheaply for sure. Magic online is fun - But I use it more as a tool to get my magic fix now I am already a fan. I wouldn't recommend throwing a couple of hundred bucks at it for someone that doesn't know whether they want to carry on playing or not!

Good Luck!
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 22:24:08
August 11 2012 22:16 GMT
#3814
On August 12 2012 05:23 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2012 03:28 Judicator wrote:
On August 11 2012 23:57 Wegandi wrote:
So, looking forward to RtR. Looking to bring back Bant in all its glory. Hopefully Birds is reprinted in RtR since...it was in Ravnica when it was excluded from the core set. Other than that, another Noble Hierarch type card would be swell :p

Obviously includes:

Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Sublime Archangel
Cavern of Souls
War Cathedral (mana a little iffy...., but exalted...)
Rancor
Sigarda, Host of Herons

That's just a base...so looking forward to RtR. Obviously needs some good counter/removals, which I am hoping RtR will provide.


Good removal and counters aren't usually provided in blocks, but rather Core sets. Wizards pretty much have said they do not like Mana Leak's design and we're never sniffing a 2 mana counter all ever again, nor will we see anything like Spell Pierce again, so yeah, chances of a good counter are pretty short. Deprive maybe the best thing we'll get. They're not letting Snapcaster co-exist with a solid counter spell in standard and I don't really blame them.


I want spells like my favorite spell of all time spellsnare back :<


That spell is interesting right now if you look at the all the notable 2 drops in standard that will survive rotation. I'd rather have Remand but that card plays a little too well with Delver and Tiago.

Edit:

As for the person asking how to start completely fresh in Magic, try out some of the video games like Duels of the Planeswalker to see if you actually enjoy the game itself. Then try out your local scene. The reason for this is to get a basic understanding of the game first so you have an idea of the terminology, basic rules, etc, so you are not overwhelmed at first in real life.
Get it by your hands...
ThaZenith
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada3116 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 22:39:10
August 11 2012 22:38 GMT
#3815
On August 12 2012 05:45 arioch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2012 05:41 matiK23 wrote:
how does someone who is curious about MtG get started in this game?


In my opinion the easiest way is to buy an intro deck, find a store close to you and play some Friday Night Magic...

http://locator.wizards.com/#brand=magic

Often stores will also run limited draft events weekly to help you build you collection.

Paper magic is the best way to start and see if you like it cheaply for sure. Magic online is fun - But I use it more as a tool to get my magic fix now I am already a fan. I wouldn't recommend throwing a couple of hundred bucks at it for someone that doesn't know whether they want to carry on playing or not!

Good Luck!

He's just curious. IMO, best way to do that is to get a MTGO account for $10, and play planeswalker. Your account will come with enough planeswalker cards to experience deckmaking (over 399 cards!), and learning the technical aspects is easy there as well. And you can play/practice as long as you want to decide if you enjoy the game. (not to mention he would get to experience limited formats/learn how they work there for free as well, seeing as not everyone would necessarily enjoy them)

Duels of the Planeswalkers (the steam game) is ok for this purpose as well, but there's no deckbuilding really, which is a fun part of magic.

After that, if he enjoys the game itself, he can decide if paper would be a good investment of money/time. (or invest into actual online cards, if he prefers being able to play anytime)
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-11 23:44:15
August 11 2012 23:39 GMT
#3816
On August 12 2012 03:28 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2012 23:57 Wegandi wrote:
So, looking forward to RtR. Looking to bring back Bant in all its glory. Hopefully Birds is reprinted in RtR since...it was in Ravnica when it was excluded from the core set. Other than that, another Noble Hierarch type card would be swell :p

Obviously includes:

Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Sublime Archangel
Cavern of Souls
War Cathedral (mana a little iffy...., but exalted...)
Rancor
Sigarda, Host of Herons

That's just a base...so looking forward to RtR. Obviously needs some good counter/removals, which I am hoping RtR will provide.


Good removal and counters aren't usually provided in blocks, but rather Core sets. Wizards pretty much have said they do not like Mana Leak's design and we're never sniffing a 2 mana counter all ever again, nor will we see anything like Spell Pierce again, so yeah, chances of a good counter are pretty short. Deprive maybe the best thing we'll get. They're not letting Snapcaster co-exist with a solid counter spell in standard and I don't really blame them.


Perhaps, but we saw Path to Exile, Terminate, Blightning, Countersquall, Celestial Purge, Hindering Light, Martial Coup, Thought Hemorrhage, Meddling Mage, Qasali Pridemage, etc. all in one block.

Stuff like Condemn also first showed up in Dissension block.

Other than that, RtR should be interesting.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-12 01:01:50
August 11 2012 23:54 GMT
#3817
On August 12 2012 08:39 Wegandi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2012 03:28 Judicator wrote:
On August 11 2012 23:57 Wegandi wrote:
So, looking forward to RtR. Looking to bring back Bant in all its glory. Hopefully Birds is reprinted in RtR since...it was in Ravnica when it was excluded from the core set. Other than that, another Noble Hierarch type card would be swell :p

Obviously includes:

Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Sublime Archangel
Cavern of Souls
War Cathedral (mana a little iffy...., but exalted...)
Rancor
Sigarda, Host of Herons

That's just a base...so looking forward to RtR. Obviously needs some good counter/removals, which I am hoping RtR will provide.


Good removal and counters aren't usually provided in blocks, but rather Core sets. Wizards pretty much have said they do not like Mana Leak's design and we're never sniffing a 2 mana counter all ever again, nor will we see anything like Spell Pierce again, so yeah, chances of a good counter are pretty short. Deprive maybe the best thing we'll get. They're not letting Snapcaster co-exist with a solid counter spell in standard and I don't really blame them.


Perhaps, but we saw Path to Exile, Terminate, Blightning, Countersquall, Celestial Purge, Hindering Light, Martial Coup, Thought Hemorrhage, Meddling Mage, Qasali Pridemage, etc. all in one block.

Stuff like Condemn also first showed up in Dissension block.

Other than that, RtR should be interesting.


?? What? None of those cards except Path is on the tier of Mana Leak/Doom Blade? They were all good cards in standard but their mana costs were restrictive unlike the removal/counters you would typically see in core sets.

Edit:

I should say Path is above both those cards in terms of power level. Condemn would be useful though.

Edit2:

More Judicator's Adventures on MWS

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Accusing me of running a net deck, christ...
Get it by your hands...
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
August 12 2012 01:28 GMT
#3818
On August 12 2012 08:54 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2012 08:39 Wegandi wrote:
On August 12 2012 03:28 Judicator wrote:
On August 11 2012 23:57 Wegandi wrote:
So, looking forward to RtR. Looking to bring back Bant in all its glory. Hopefully Birds is reprinted in RtR since...it was in Ravnica when it was excluded from the core set. Other than that, another Noble Hierarch type card would be swell :p

Obviously includes:

Geist of Saint Traft
Rancor
Sublime Archangel
Cavern of Souls
War Cathedral (mana a little iffy...., but exalted...)
Rancor
Sigarda, Host of Herons

That's just a base...so looking forward to RtR. Obviously needs some good counter/removals, which I am hoping RtR will provide.


Good removal and counters aren't usually provided in blocks, but rather Core sets. Wizards pretty much have said they do not like Mana Leak's design and we're never sniffing a 2 mana counter all ever again, nor will we see anything like Spell Pierce again, so yeah, chances of a good counter are pretty short. Deprive maybe the best thing we'll get. They're not letting Snapcaster co-exist with a solid counter spell in standard and I don't really blame them.


Perhaps, but we saw Path to Exile, Terminate, Blightning, Countersquall, Celestial Purge, Hindering Light, Martial Coup, Thought Hemorrhage, Meddling Mage, Qasali Pridemage, etc. all in one block.

Stuff like Condemn also first showed up in Dissension block.

Other than that, RtR should be interesting.


?? What? None of those cards except Path is on the tier of Mana Leak/Doom Blade? They were all good cards in standard but their mana costs were restrictive unlike the removal/counters you would typically see in core sets.

Edit:

I should say Path is above both those cards in terms of power level. Condemn would be useful though.

Edit2:

More Judicator's Adventures on MWS

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Accusing me of running a net deck, christ...


You said 'good' removals were mostly Core-set material. Sometimes, yes, sometimes no. Lots of blocks have good removal/counter either in form of instant and sorceries or creature spells. I gave you one example of a relatively recent block that made my point. Never did I say anything about being on the power of mana leak or doom blade.

Non-sequitur aside, I expect there to be useful and playable counters and removal in RtR, at least enough to somewhat make up for what we are losing.

As far as restrictive costs for those cards....most of them are 2CMC cards, and easily accessible. Terminate is better than doom blade imho because it has more versatility even though yes, it costs R instead of 1, especially in sets like Alara and Ravnica where the standard deck is 3+ colors.

Control isn't as good in this block due to things like Cavern of Souls, Hex proof, and all other sorts of hate against it. Snap caster is overrated to be honest. Yes, a good card, but not so broken as to destroy the power of all other instants and sorceries.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
August 12 2012 02:01 GMT
#3819
That's my point though. The freedom to include the cards in various builds makes it useful, after all what's the point of the card if you can't include it in a relevant deck. Terminate would never fit into an Esper build. Before people start bringing in shock lands are back cries, the mana base isn't that good for you to be going 4 color control.

I know what you meant and I was clarifying what I meant. We have different definitions of good.

As for Doom Blade versus Terminate, no, it really isn't even close, 1B is very different from RB and the drawback is something you can manage as a deck builder.

As for control, no, caverns, hexproof, undying are wrecking the old ideas of control, not control in general. It requires much more work than throw a bunch of counterspells/kills and like 4 win cons to run control now (for the past year of standard). For the most part, it's not worth the time as it requires constant updating and tracking of the metagame, but if you get it right, you are really mostly untouchable for that particular tournament.
Get it by your hands...
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
August 12 2012 20:49 GMT
#3820
On August 12 2012 05:41 matiK23 wrote:
how does someone who is curious about MtG get started in this game?


I'm gonna go off of what ThaZenith said and emphasize an online game first, definitely either Magic Online or Duels of the Planeswalkers. I've not tried MO, but DotP is excellent for starters, in my opinion. The 2013 version is only 10 bucks on Steam, and the hints really help you understand what everything means and does. (this is coming from one who's played Magic for ~2 years now)

It's true that you don't get much in the way of deck customization in DotP. So when you feel confident enough to jump to real-life, I recommend browsing Gatherer at cards you'd like to play with and reading through the comments; commenters are a great source for finding useful cards that combo with what you want.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
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