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So it'll be a good deck for a month or two?
I was thinking of running something like this
Creatures 4x Diregraf Ghoul 4x Geralf's Messenger 4x Gravecrawler 4x Highborn Ghoul 4x Blood Artist 3x Bloodthrone Vampire 1x Disciple of Bolas Land 23x Swamp Planeswalkers 2x Liliana of the Veil Spells 4x Tragic Slip 3x Killing Wave
I havent worked on the side and it's still missing 4 cards in the main. I feel like I should also cut a killing wave.
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has anyone played magic 2013: DoP?
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On August 10 2012 09:11 Shotcoder wrote: So it'll be a good deck for a month or two?
I was thinking of running something like this
Creatures 4x Diregraf Ghoul 4x Geralf's Messenger 4x Gravecrawler 4x Highborn Ghoul 4x Blood Artist 3x Bloodthrone Vampire 1x Disciple of Bolas Land 23x Swamp Planeswalkers 2x Liliana of the Veil Spells 4x Tragic Slip 3x Killing Wave
I havent worked on the side and it's still missing 4 cards in the main. I feel like I should also cut a killing wave.
Don't think that's gonna get it done...if the format slows down then control decks will be viable again. Remember one of the things holding control decks down is the mana base, Mana Leak itself is replaceable by a balance of the other counterspells and Caverns can run into issues against kill decks. I am almost betting that Unburial Rites is on the cusp of domination once the boogey man Vapor Snag rotates and then what good is zombies?
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On August 10 2012 13:02 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 09:11 Shotcoder wrote: So it'll be a good deck for a month or two?
I was thinking of running something like this
Creatures 4x Diregraf Ghoul 4x Geralf's Messenger 4x Gravecrawler 4x Highborn Ghoul 4x Blood Artist 3x Bloodthrone Vampire 1x Disciple of Bolas Land 23x Swamp Planeswalkers 2x Liliana of the Veil Spells 4x Tragic Slip 3x Killing Wave
I havent worked on the side and it's still missing 4 cards in the main. I feel like I should also cut a killing wave. Don't think that's gonna get it done...if the format slows down then control decks will be viable again. Remember one of the things holding control decks down is the mana base, Mana Leak itself is replaceable by a balance of the other counterspells and Caverns can run into issues against kill decks. I am almost betting that Unburial Rites is on the cusp of domination once the boogey man Vapor Snag rotates and then what good is zombies?
What's holding down control decks is the lack of removal and decent counter-spell cards (Mana Leak is good in the first few turns, but it's not that good) as well as...some of the mechanics like undying. The closest you will get to control now-a-days is monoblack or UB, which is sort of sad for this UW control player. I miss my Path to Exiles, Wall of Omens, Wall of Denial, Celestial Colonnades, Sea Gate Oracles, JTMS's, Elspeth (not the crappy one), Baneslayer Angel, Condemn, Journey to Nowhere, Negate!, etc. etc.
I miss my Wall of Denial so much. Such a great card :p Yeah, you could argue UW control standard 2010 is way way overpowered, and I would agree...Baneslayer, JTMS's, Path to Exiles, Negates, Elspeth, Colonnades, Wall of Omens/Denial, etc. etc.
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BR zombies post rotation still has insane reach.
4 Blood Artist 4 Diregraf Ghoul 3 Falkenrath Aristocrat 4 Geralf's Messenger 2 Highborn Ghoul 4 Gravecrawler 2 Sign in blood 4 Brimstone Volley 4 Tragic Slip 2 Bonfire of the Damned 4 Bloodcrypt(?) 3 Cavern of Souls 4 Dragonskull Summit 12 Swamp
Assuming rakdos in RtR means we have blood crypt immediately. Plus, BG zombies might be playable, if Jarad and friends are cool. I'd love to mulch some gravecrawlers, Jarad's and *insert non-dredge mechanic*. Surgicals and spellbomb being gone means people are gonna have to resort to the less good cards like tormod's and grafdigger's. Surgical has hosed me alot this past year.
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On August 10 2012 16:44 bumatlarge wrote: BR zombies post rotation still has insane reach.
4 Blood Artist 4 Diregraf Ghoul 3 Falkenrath Aristocrat 4 Geralf's Messenger 2 Highborn Ghoul 4 Gravecrawler 2 Sign in blood 4 Brimstone Volley 4 Tragic Slip 2 Bonfire of the Damned 4 Bloodcrypt(?) 3 Cavern of Souls 4 Dragonskull Summit 12 Swamp
Assuming rakdos in RtR means we have blood crypt immediately. Plus, BG zombies might be playable, if Jarad and friends are cool. I'd love to mulch some gravecrawlers, Jarad's and *insert non-dredge mechanic*. Surgicals and spellbomb being gone means people are gonna have to resort to the less good cards like tormod's and grafdigger's. Surgical has hosed me alot this past year.
If Zombies/Semi-Dredgeish are any good post-rotation, I might actually get to play Angel of Jubilation some :p Would be fun.
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On August 10 2012 15:10 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 13:02 Judicator wrote:On August 10 2012 09:11 Shotcoder wrote: So it'll be a good deck for a month or two?
I was thinking of running something like this
Creatures 4x Diregraf Ghoul 4x Geralf's Messenger 4x Gravecrawler 4x Highborn Ghoul 4x Blood Artist 3x Bloodthrone Vampire 1x Disciple of Bolas Land 23x Swamp Planeswalkers 2x Liliana of the Veil Spells 4x Tragic Slip 3x Killing Wave
I havent worked on the side and it's still missing 4 cards in the main. I feel like I should also cut a killing wave. Don't think that's gonna get it done...if the format slows down then control decks will be viable again. Remember one of the things holding control decks down is the mana base, Mana Leak itself is replaceable by a balance of the other counterspells and Caverns can run into issues against kill decks. I am almost betting that Unburial Rites is on the cusp of domination once the boogey man Vapor Snag rotates and then what good is zombies? What's holding down control decks is the lack of removal and decent counter-spell cards (Mana Leak is good in the first few turns, but it's not that good) as well as...some of the mechanics like undying. The closest you will get to control now-a-days is monoblack or UB, which is sort of sad for this UW control player. I miss my Path to Exiles, Wall of Omens, Wall of Denial, Celestial Colonnades, Sea Gate Oracles, JTMS's, Elspeth (not the crappy one), Baneslayer Angel, Condemn, Journey to Nowhere, Negate!, etc. etc. I miss my Wall of Denial so much. Such a great card :p Yeah, you could argue UW control standard 2010 is way way overpowered, and I would agree...Baneslayer, JTMS's, Path to Exiles, Negates, Elspeth, Colonnades, Wall of Omens/Denial, etc. etc.
?? Removal is fine. Mana Leak is ironically the problem for control decks (Delver beats you with that card). The mana base severely limits certain cards in your pool. Undying isn't as big of a deal nor is Hexproof, they really only matter if you are playing UB which by the way isn't a deck. The UW control is there (I've been playing around with it for fun until rotation), it's just counter-less till board.
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On August 10 2012 13:02 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 09:11 Shotcoder wrote: So it'll be a good deck for a month or two?
I was thinking of running something like this
Creatures 4x Diregraf Ghoul 4x Geralf's Messenger 4x Gravecrawler 4x Highborn Ghoul 4x Blood Artist 3x Bloodthrone Vampire 1x Disciple of Bolas Land 23x Swamp Planeswalkers 2x Liliana of the Veil Spells 4x Tragic Slip 3x Killing Wave
I havent worked on the side and it's still missing 4 cards in the main. I feel like I should also cut a killing wave. Don't think that's gonna get it done...if the format slows down then control decks will be viable again. Remember one of the things holding control decks down is the mana base, Mana Leak itself is replaceable by a balance of the other counterspells and Caverns can run into issues against kill decks. I am almost betting that Unburial Rites is on the cusp of domination once the boogey man Vapor Snag rotates and then what good is zombies?
Unsummon is still around, and has been for quite a while. The 1 life doesn't make much of a difference, the main reason it wasn't played before was the lack of good early threats in blue, which as been resolved (Delver, Geist, Stalker).
Keep in mind, us reanimators are losing Elesh Norn and the other Praetors as well as Wurmcoil Engine. The only target worth a damn now is Griselbrand. Hopefully R2R gives us a good one in Azorious colors.
EDIT: And the titans.
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Anyone want to help an oldschool MTG player get back into the scene. The "block" that was currently going around when I was playing was Stronghold. Might look into trying some online stuff to begin playing. Throw me a PM if your interested, as I would love to talk magic again.
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Unsummon is irrelevant. Vapor Snag actually took a full turn off the clock. Think number of attacks with Geist versus number of attacks with Geist + Snag. Unsummon isn't going to get them killed from 7. That one life (more like 2 life) is very relevant with the way that the numbers work out most of the time for Delver builds. A card that pings someone for 1 and trades 1 mana for usually 3 mana while opening the door for more attacks seems kind of good.
The only relevant loss to reanimators is Elesh Norn, Titans are whatever...but we have Griselbrand which arguably is harder to deal with than any other creature especially when Purge is gone. On top of the fact that Image and Metamorph is gone, Giselda from AVR along with Avacyn herself are problematic for most decks. Additionally, Rise from the Grave was reprinted which is not irrelevant. Surgical Extraction is gone and so is Nihil Spellbomb. Sure there is Tormod's Crypt, but RWB are the colors and you have numerous outs to that card. Cage/Seal are there too but....you are RWB...If the mana base is really sweet, you might even support a 4th splash.
The only Praetor worth talking about is Jin, but he was too slow in this format to begin with.
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Having somehow just stumbled across some Youtube videos of old Pro Tours (Finkel/Budde era), I've decided that I might want to get back into Magic after not having played semi-seriously since Odyssey was released about 10 years ago. Back then, I was pretty comfortable with RB Machinehead (Blazing Specter/Urza's Rage/Skizzik/Phyrexian Scuta) and I'd be interested in knowing if there was any place for something similar in the current Legacy metagame? I'm finding it a little overwhelming to try and get back into Standard after having been out of the loop for so long, even though the majority of rules are still quite familiar to me.
Also, what's the general consensus seem to be in playing MTG:O vs. paper Magic? I'm going to be moving out of province at the end of the month and the town I'll be living in seems to have a couple dedicated card shops, so hopefully the scene is fairly active. I'll always hold a preference for playing paper Magic, unless the convenience of MTG:O is too great to pass up.
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On August 10 2012 22:31 Judicator wrote: Unsummon is irrelevant. Vapor Snag actually took a full turn off the clock. Think number of attacks with Geist versus number of attacks with Geist + Snag. Unsummon isn't going to get them killed from 7. That one life (more like 2 life) is very relevant with the way that the numbers work out most of the time for Delver builds. A card that pings someone for 1 and trades 1 mana for usually 3 mana while opening the door for more attacks seems kind of good.
The only relevant loss to reanimators is Elesh Norn, Titans are whatever...but we have Griselbrand which arguably is harder to deal with than any other creature especially when Purge is gone. On top of the fact that Image and Metamorph is gone, Giselda from AVR along with Avacyn herself are problematic for most decks. Additionally, Rise from the Grave was reprinted which is not irrelevant. Surgical Extraction is gone and so is Nihil Spellbomb. Sure there is Tormod's Crypt, but RWB are the colors and you have numerous outs to that card. Cage/Seal are there too but....you are RWB...If the mana base is really sweet, you might even support a 4th splash.
The only Praetor worth talking about is Jin, but he was too slow in this format to begin with.
There was nothing more satisfying than flashing Jin in on the end step...against an SCG finalist no less.
(It got Snapcaster Mana Leaked, but that let me resolve a Sun Titan/image chain that won me the game).
Honestly, Delver is losing Ponder, Gut Shot, and Gitaxian Probe, it's not surviving in its current state. My money is on U/R or UWR delver being the thing after the transition, which will replace the miniscule amount of reach lost by snag.
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On August 10 2012 23:15 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 22:31 Judicator wrote: Unsummon is irrelevant. Vapor Snag actually took a full turn off the clock. Think number of attacks with Geist versus number of attacks with Geist + Snag. Unsummon isn't going to get them killed from 7. That one life (more like 2 life) is very relevant with the way that the numbers work out most of the time for Delver builds. A card that pings someone for 1 and trades 1 mana for usually 3 mana while opening the door for more attacks seems kind of good.
The only relevant loss to reanimators is Elesh Norn, Titans are whatever...but we have Griselbrand which arguably is harder to deal with than any other creature especially when Purge is gone. On top of the fact that Image and Metamorph is gone, Giselda from AVR along with Avacyn herself are problematic for most decks. Additionally, Rise from the Grave was reprinted which is not irrelevant. Surgical Extraction is gone and so is Nihil Spellbomb. Sure there is Tormod's Crypt, but RWB are the colors and you have numerous outs to that card. Cage/Seal are there too but....you are RWB...If the mana base is really sweet, you might even support a 4th splash.
The only Praetor worth talking about is Jin, but he was too slow in this format to begin with. There was nothing more satisfying than flashing Jin in on the end step...against an SCG finalist no less. (It got Snapcaster Mana Leaked, but that let me resolve a Sun Titan/image chain that won me the game). Honestly, Delver is losing Ponder, Gut Shot, and Gitaxian Probe, it's not surviving in its current state. My money is on U/R or UWR delver being the thing after the transition, which will replace the miniscule amount of reach lost by snag.
You honestly sound like someone who's never played the Delver deck in any iteration. Delver isn't surviving the rotation, anyone who's played the deck knows that. Probe into Ponder is broken as shit in that deck with a competent pilot.
And I stole a Jin with Volition Reins from a PT player on the turn I needed to...what's your point?
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On August 10 2012 23:14 Teence wrote: Having somehow just stumbled across some Youtube videos of old Pro Tours (Finkel/Budde era), I've decided that I might want to get back into Magic after not having played semi-seriously since Odyssey was released about 10 years ago. Back then, I was pretty comfortable with RB Machinehead (Blazing Specter/Urza's Rage/Skizzik/Phyrexian Scuta) and I'd be interested in knowing if there was any place for something similar in the current Legacy metagame? I'm finding it a little overwhelming to try and get back into Standard after having been out of the loop for so long, even though the majority of rules are still quite familiar to me.
Also, what's the general consensus seem to be in playing MTG:O vs. paper Magic? I'm going to be moving out of province at the end of the month and the town I'll be living in seems to have a couple dedicated card shops, so hopefully the scene is fairly active. I'll always hold a preference for playing paper Magic, unless the convenience of MTG:O is too great to pass up.
Legacy is pretty open right now. Many decks possible. I don't play Legacy much but from what I can tell...Dredge, RUG Delver, Maverick, Reanimator targeting Greiselbrand, UW Stoneblade, Elves, WB Stoneblade, all the Storm variants, Show and Tell, Belcher, Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins, Burn.
The legacy scene mostly rides on the SCG circuit although there were 2 Legacy Grand Prixs this past season.
I would say it's more active now than what it was before but whether you'll find it in your local scene is still a crapshoot.
Edit:
Damn it, double posted again.
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On August 10 2012 12:09 OoFuzer wrote: has anyone played magic 2013: DoP?
I have! Haven't done online matches, though. Just railed against the computer time and again. It's worth the 10 bucks, if you ask me, if only for the challenges (those'll make your head spin, lol).
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On August 10 2012 23:37 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 23:14 Teence wrote: Having somehow just stumbled across some Youtube videos of old Pro Tours (Finkel/Budde era), I've decided that I might want to get back into Magic after not having played semi-seriously since Odyssey was released about 10 years ago. Back then, I was pretty comfortable with RB Machinehead (Blazing Specter/Urza's Rage/Skizzik/Phyrexian Scuta) and I'd be interested in knowing if there was any place for something similar in the current Legacy metagame? I'm finding it a little overwhelming to try and get back into Standard after having been out of the loop for so long, even though the majority of rules are still quite familiar to me.
Also, what's the general consensus seem to be in playing MTG:O vs. paper Magic? I'm going to be moving out of province at the end of the month and the town I'll be living in seems to have a couple dedicated card shops, so hopefully the scene is fairly active. I'll always hold a preference for playing paper Magic, unless the convenience of MTG:O is too great to pass up. Legacy is pretty open right now. Many decks possible. I don't play Legacy much but from what I can tell...Dredge, RUG Delver, Maverick, Reanimator targeting Greiselbrand, UW Stoneblade, Elves, WB Stoneblade, all the Storm variants, Show and Tell, Belcher, Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins, Burn. The legacy scene mostly rides on the SCG circuit although there were 2 Legacy Grand Prixs this past season. I would say it's more active now than what it was before but whether you'll find it in your local scene is still a crapshoot. Edit: Damn it, double posted again.
Thanks for the heads up! I've been looking more and more into starting up on MTG:O and I'm interested in some opinions of how it compares to paper Magic. Is the convenience of being able to play on a whim worth the price tag? Do some of you manage to tackle both fairly reasonably without breaking the bank? I'll always have a preference for actually owning cards and playing IRL, but of course I won't know how active my new scene will be after I move, so maybe MTG:O is a good bet.
In regards to Type 2, which I guess is now called Standard , how does the metagame look? Last time I played Standard was the heyday of UW Millstone control and BG Deeds, so it was generally a very slow metagame. What would be a rough estimate of investment to get back into the Standard scene?
I'm actually giddy at the thought of getting back into MTG, so I appreciate any advice :D
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On August 11 2012 03:59 Teence wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 23:37 Judicator wrote:On August 10 2012 23:14 Teence wrote: Having somehow just stumbled across some Youtube videos of old Pro Tours (Finkel/Budde era), I've decided that I might want to get back into Magic after not having played semi-seriously since Odyssey was released about 10 years ago. Back then, I was pretty comfortable with RB Machinehead (Blazing Specter/Urza's Rage/Skizzik/Phyrexian Scuta) and I'd be interested in knowing if there was any place for something similar in the current Legacy metagame? I'm finding it a little overwhelming to try and get back into Standard after having been out of the loop for so long, even though the majority of rules are still quite familiar to me.
Also, what's the general consensus seem to be in playing MTG:O vs. paper Magic? I'm going to be moving out of province at the end of the month and the town I'll be living in seems to have a couple dedicated card shops, so hopefully the scene is fairly active. I'll always hold a preference for playing paper Magic, unless the convenience of MTG:O is too great to pass up. Legacy is pretty open right now. Many decks possible. I don't play Legacy much but from what I can tell...Dredge, RUG Delver, Maverick, Reanimator targeting Greiselbrand, UW Stoneblade, Elves, WB Stoneblade, all the Storm variants, Show and Tell, Belcher, Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins, Burn. The legacy scene mostly rides on the SCG circuit although there were 2 Legacy Grand Prixs this past season. I would say it's more active now than what it was before but whether you'll find it in your local scene is still a crapshoot. Edit: Damn it, double posted again. Thanks for the heads up! I've been looking more and more into starting up on MTG:O and I'm interested in some opinions of how it compares to paper Magic. Is the convenience of being able to play on a whim worth the price tag? Do some of you manage to tackle both fairly reasonably without breaking the bank? I'll always have a preference for actually owning cards and playing IRL, but of course I won't know how active my new scene will be after I move, so maybe MTG:O is a good bet. In regards to Type 2, which I guess is now called Standard  , how does the metagame look? Last time I played Standard was the heyday of UW Millstone control and BG Deeds, so it was generally a very slow metagame. What would be a rough estimate of investment to get back into the Standard scene? I'm actually giddy at the thought of getting back into MTG, so I appreciate any advice :D
BG deeds is still a viable deck it just takes a lot of knowledge to properly build for metagames. I played Trainwreck for a good month or so and the deck is insanely good as soon as you figure out the plays and what hands to keep.
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Legacy is incredibly diverse, it's pretty fun at my LGS that everyone of 8 people has a different competitive deck.
Standard is pretty healthy IMO. Delver is the supposed "bogeyman" but its not as oppressive as people make it out to be. It's still probably the strongest deck and has been for a bit, but not by much. There isn't much pure control, because delver's aggro control makes it look like a joke. I think Reid Duke's Blue Wolf-Run deck is pretty good example of how to take advantage of this. My buddy had to play his UW delver verse it for an underground sea, and I recall him complaining alot that he was gonna lose the sea because of it. I play zombies so what do I know.
This was the MTGO meta just before M13 coreset
![[image loading]](http://www.channelfireball.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cgraph1-e1343775242938.png)
I think you can buy a standard deck from $80~400, depending on what you want.
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Think I'm going to be hitting up the PTQ in Rochester on Sunday. Decided to run a Delver list (lol duh), this is what I'm going to be running. Thoughts?
+ Show Spoiler + Creatures: 18 4x delver of secrets 4x blade splicer 4x restoration angel 4x snap caster mage 2x hero of bladehold
Instants/Sorceries: 19 4x ponder 4x vapor snag 3x gitaxian probe 3x mana leak 2x gut shot 2x thought scour 1x mutagenic growth
Artifacts: 2 2x sword of war and peace
Lands: 21 3x cavern of souls 4x sea chrome coast 4x glacier fortress 2x moorland haunt 7x island 1x plains
Sideboard: 15 3x phantasmal image 1 consecrated sphinx
2x day of judgement 2 timely reinforcements 2x celestial purge 1x dismember 1x divine offering
1x sword of feast and famine
1x tamiyo 1x gideon jura
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Six 4-drops with only 9 cantrips and 21 lands seems low to me, but I don't play Delver. Are you casting your 4s at a reasonable time? Your deck seems clunkier than most delver decks, although that might not be a bad thing.
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