EPTSteelshaper's Gift causes issues in that you have to pay for the casting and equip cost of the Equipment. By that time, you're likely dead.
Magic: The Gathering - Page 193
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
Steelshaper's Gift causes issues in that you have to pay for the casting and equip cost of the Equipment. By that time, you're likely dead. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Edit: Like, be more creative with that deck. Add Heartless Summoning, add Puresteel Paladin... | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
Idyllic tutor also reveals the enchantment, and you've had to hold back your 0 CMC creatures to trigger the eventual quest- ie you've done basically nothing for turn 1 and 2. I don't think it's better than nothing, you'd just lose. edit; puresteel paladin would be kind of neat. Also you want to remember that argentum armor is really only the most ideal equipment because you're trying to cheat it out on turn 2 to kill their lands before they can really do anything (and the kor outfitter lets you re-equip to a different 0CMC creature). Argentum armor after the first couple turns isn't nearly as powerful. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
There are so many cards that cost next to nothing that would make this deck more resilient. | ||
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
Don't want to discourage creativity, though. I'll keep thinking. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
Also what is the point of squadron hawk? I get that it flies and allows you to find other squadron hawks, but it's 2 mana each, not an artifact to trigger your frogmite's affinity, and otherwise not that useful. I'd way rather have puresteel paladin at 2 mana edit; puresteel paladin makes you more resilient against path to exile, which is pretty good i hear | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
But its not like we never had things like Ethersworn Canonist or Etherium Sculptor or Lodestone Golem, along with more cards to cheat artifacts specifically into play. | ||
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:32 Judicator wrote: I also hate how players hide behind the "we're not serious/are poor" excuse when producing decks like this. That's not an excuse, you do not have to dump large amounts of money into the situation and you certainly can find alternatives to expensive cards/decks, yes...even in Delver. On August 14 2012 00:07 Judicator wrote: Post a list, but Snapcaster really isn't negotiable in Delver. are you saying it's a bad deck? i mean sure it relies on hitting one of 4 cards but think about how often you hit delver in your opening hand. it's been decently consistent and i've won a few games missing quest and just turning squadron hawks sideways (i'll admit it's a VERY modest winrate... but still) enlighten me, oh knowledgable one. give me a decklist where i don't drop more than 10 tickets and have a fighter's chance at winning in modern: - MAAAYYBEE a jund deck with bloodbraid/blightning but i think that'll push 10 tickets with the core alone (don't even dream of tarmogoyf) - MAAAYYYBEE you can steal a few faeries (mistbind, scion, spellstutter?) - MAAAAYBEE you can find pieces to martyr proc (minus stuff like serra ascendant) but at the end of the day it's decent for what it is: a budget funny decklist that won't cause a dramatic meta shift but is a blast to play a few times. i don't visit this thread often and it seems to me that you want to project an image of "I AM TOP TIER LISTEN TO MY ADVICE" (we get it, you have mythics and chase rares). sorry i don't live up to your standards. just ignore my posts if you can't stand looking at decklists without 12 dual lands and is outside an established archetype. | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
heartless doesn't work because it kills off too much of your guys and at the end of the day you need someone to hold the armor. also it requires splashing black which requires dual lands which requires money. puresteel is pointless because you only have 3-4 pieces of equipment anyways. if flayer husk was a creature spell it may be sort of nice but not really. adding steelshapers gift may help but slow and ~1.5 tickets each. i was referring to idyllic tutor in my original post. sure it slows down the deck a lot but it's Quests 5-8 which is nice. the deck is at a point where i don't know what non-land cards to add anymore. razor golem is too slow, frogmites are pushing it, kor outfitter is situational. tried out zealous guardian a few times and it's ok. maybe just dump in elite vanguards to buff up Plan B. batterskull seems amazing (haven't tried). i've also thought about toying with Elbrus the Binding Blade because it seems super classy. instant speed attach into 13/13 seems pretty silly. i actually used a sideboard with faith's shield to protect Quests from ench destruction. when i boarded them in i usually ended up regretting it and wishing that i'd drew lands/creatures instead. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On August 14 2012 10:06 redtooth wrote: are you saying it's a bad deck? i mean sure it relies on hitting one of 4 cards but think about how often you hit delver in your opening hand. it's been decently consistent and i've won a few games missing quest and just turning squadron hawks sideways (i'll admit it's a VERY modest winrate... but still) enlighten me, oh knowledgable one. give me a decklist where i don't drop more than 10 tickets and have a fighter's chance at winning in modern: - MAAAYYBEE a jund deck with bloodbraid/blightning but i think that'll push 10 tickets with the core alone (don't even dream of tarmogoyf) - MAAAYYYBEE you can steal a few faeries (mistbind, scion, spellstutter?) - MAAAAYBEE you can find pieces to martyr proc (minus stuff like serra ascendant) but at the end of the day it's decent for what it is: a budget funny decklist that won't cause a dramatic meta shift but is a blast to play a few times. i don't visit this thread often and it seems to me that you want to project an image of "I AM TOP TIER LISTEN TO MY ADVICE" (we get it, you have mythics and chase rares). sorry i don't live up to your standards. just ignore my posts if you can't stand looking at decklists without 12 dual lands and is outside an established archetype. See the funny thing is this is exactly how I cam into this thread. And you should know Judicator is right 99.9% of the time and knows this game better than you do. Sure you can steal some games but the fact of the matter is you need those rares and mythics to win CONSISTENTLY and that's what Judicator aims for...Winning consistently. | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On August 14 2012 10:17 Shotcoder wrote: See the funny thing is this is exactly how I cam into this thread. And you should know Judicator is right 99.9% of the time and knows this game better than you do. Sure you can steal some games but the fact of the matter is you need those rares and mythics to win CONSISTENTLY and that's what Judicator aims for...Winning consistently. but then we're arguing apples and oranges. it's hard for me to argue that i'm better than Judicator because he seems to have placed in official shit whereas i've never even been to an FNM (why the fuck is it on a friday). however i wanted to share my laughs with other 'johnnies' in this thread with an idea my roomie and i came up with. as a person who isn't willing to commit big bucks into MTG, this is the most fun i'll ever have. and it's quite a blast. let me piss you guys off even more and share our block constructed deck that is also 4 Burning Vengeance the sideboard had like extra blasphemous acts, ancient grudge (for witchbane orb, grafdigger), ray of revelation (forget why... there was some ench that was annoying), and a bunch of evolving wilds and basic lands (to better fix mana after sideboarding). dream twist is the hero of this deck as it's basically "U: draw 3 cards, 1U: trigger flashback passives". i'll admit it's not finely tuned but it did surprisingly well considering what it is. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On August 14 2012 10:17 Shotcoder wrote: See the funny thing is this is exactly how I cam into this thread. And you should know Judicator is right 99.9% of the time and knows this game better than you do. Sure you can steal some games but the fact of the matter is you need those rares and mythics to win CONSISTENTLY and that's what Judicator aims for...Winning consistently. Ok well.. I don't think that's what this thread is about though, this thread is just about magic. I am an extremely competitive player, I have tournament experience, IRL and MODO (have not been on pro tour yet and never will since I don't ptq anymore, It's not worth it too me, but have qued for nationals, I've made top 8 some stuff here and there and smashed MODO daily/premier events , as well as having a few deep runs in MOCS) and yet I'm tired of Judicator shooting people down time and time again. Yes rares and mythics are needed to win consistently in a tournament scene where everyone else is trying to do the same thing, but they actually aren't needed to win in the tournament practice room, and aren't needed to enjoy the game. There is such thing as table top magic, and it's extremely enjoyable for a lot of people, and these people don't spend tons of money. I actually don't think Judicator is right 99.9% of the time. He is right a lot of the time, probably 90% Idk, I'm just basing this on how often I agree with him, but the way he presents his arguments , you would think he is right 99.9% of the time. He always presents himself without question, as right. About the metagame, about card choices, etc. I know Judicator is a decent player, and has had experience, but most top pros don't present themselves in the way Judicator does and it comes off very arrogant and rude. If this thread was solely about tournament competitive magic then I would say ok, but we've had discussions about everything in here, including stuff like Duels of the Planeswalkers 0.o. I don't want this thread to be so elitist we can't let poor redtooth talk about his extremely budget decks. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On August 14 2012 10:06 redtooth wrote: are you saying it's a bad deck? i mean sure it relies on hitting one of 4 cards but think about how often you hit delver in your opening hand. it's been decently consistent and i've won a few games missing quest and just turning squadron hawks sideways (i'll admit it's a VERY modest winrate... but still) enlighten me, oh knowledgable one. give me a decklist where i don't drop more than 10 tickets and have a fighter's chance at winning in modern: - MAAAYYBEE a jund deck with bloodbraid/blightning but i think that'll push 10 tickets with the core alone (don't even dream of tarmogoyf) - MAAAYYYBEE you can steal a few faeries (mistbind, scion, spellstutter?) - MAAAAYBEE you can find pieces to martyr proc (minus stuff like serra ascendant) but at the end of the day it's decent for what it is: a budget funny decklist that won't cause a dramatic meta shift but is a blast to play a few times. i don't visit this thread often and it seems to me that you want to project an image of "I AM TOP TIER LISTEN TO MY ADVICE" (we get it, you have mythics and chase rares). sorry i don't live up to your standards. just ignore my posts if you can't stand looking at decklists without 12 dual lands and is outside an established archetype. ??? So my suggestions all cost arms and legs right? Give me a break. I called your deck out for being specifically a 4 card deck and all you have to say is that its a cheap fun deck? Then you pull out all these money cards for modern like...I care when I am playing Land Destruction for the modern format without Boom//Bust... Delver totally relies on Delver to win...like shit there isn't a Delver-less version out there or anything, your deck doesn't do anything if you don't draw Quest. I wanted to avoid all of this, but kiddies like busting out excuses like "its cheap"...when we're not the ones posting deck lists coming in here saying i don't give a fuck what you do or what's a sideboard? Now I am supposedly elitist? Give me a fucking break. Just because your deck is cute, doesn't mean it has to be a 4 card deck. Slow down. I am saying your deck is bad because AGAIN FOR THE XTH TIME, you aren't doing anything if you don't draw Quest, not because your deck needs a billion mythics and chase rares. Get over yourself, you're the one saying that you need dual lands (news flash, you don't), you wish you had batterskull (news flash, you don't). It's ok though, I am poor and that gives me the ability to post dumpster decks because I won against Tron. Like LOL $4 deck beats $100+ decks LOL. For all the brewers out there building decks who don't have a lot of money, use your heads. There are effective options any where for cheap. Magic for a LONG time now has always offered (most of the time slightly less effective) alternatives to the "chase" rares and mythics. There are some decks that just won't function without their titular cards, but if you know people, they might be willing to lend those cards to you. I have spent $100 total (includes a box) this standard format dating to Zendikar rotation, but I can play all the decks I want to (as supposedly lolol Spike). Edit: redtooth, I have nothing against you, I do have something against people coming in here with janky lists (because there a fair number of new/inexperienced players) who proclaim "what's a sideboard". | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Sideboard | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On August 14 2012 11:55 BlueBird. wrote: That's the problem Judicator, people should be allowed to post their janky lists, have fun with them, and ask questions like.. What's a sideboard? or... My friend is smashing me with this mono red burn deck, what can I build for 3 bucks to give him a hard time. It shouldn't always be about the best competitive list, especially for table top players. You can build extremely good table top decks for no $ at all, and yet your friends won't play with you after you smash them 10 times straight. Magic isn't just one community. http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Sideboard Nothing wrong with that Bluebird. Except he isn't saying it like that at all, you realize this right? | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On August 14 2012 10:17 redtooth wrote: actually regarding the decklist: heartless doesn't work because it kills off too much of your guys and at the end of the day you need someone to hold the armor. also it requires splashing black which requires dual lands which requires money. puresteel is pointless because you only have 3-4 pieces of equipment anyways. if flayer husk was a creature spell it may be sort of nice but not really. adding steelshapers gift may help but slow and ~1.5 tickets each. i was referring to idyllic tutor in my original post. sure it slows down the deck a lot but it's Quests 5-8 which is nice. the deck is at a point where i don't know what non-land cards to add anymore. razor golem is too slow, frogmites are pushing it, kor outfitter is situational. tried out zealous guardian a few times and it's ok. maybe just dump in elite vanguards to buff up Plan B. batterskull seems amazing (haven't tried). i've also thought about toying with Elbrus the Binding Blade because it seems super classy. instant speed attach into 13/13 seems pretty silly. i actually used a sideboard with faith's shield to protect Quests from ench destruction. when i boarded them in i usually ended up regretting it and wishing that i'd drew lands/creatures instead. Personally, I would take your creature base heavier artifact. The fact of the matter is your non 0CMC creatures are all being cast once per turn. In that case if you don't have a quest in your hand, and you're quite possibly entering turn 3 or 4 with something like 2 or 3 no real ability 1/1's or 0/2's, which is horrible. If you go a little heavier on your artifact creatures, you can run frogmite more reliably, and maybe add in signal pestas some form of alternative attempted win. The problem with idyllic tutor, again, is that while sure it finds you your quests, you're going to lose if you rely on that to play your quest, period. This deck will not win if you have to wait until turn 4 to play things (need to hold creatures back until quest is down). I'm a little confused, Puresteel paladin is only effected by 3 cards in your current deck list and is useless, but your entire deck runs around 4 cards to be viable? I understand your complaints with the card, but the logic behind it I find slightly confusing. (also I think you might find more success trying to work in paladin as an alternate attempted win condition) | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Adding Summoning allows you to play 4 drops or 2 drops which may or may not get value depending on the cards added (Calciderm for example is a 2 turn clock with an Armor). The black also gives you a chance at the Storm decks. Summoning basically opens up your creature pool for a very small drawback. Alternatively, you can play that 1WW 3/3 Angel from AVR to go off on turn 3, but that's again completely reliant on Quest and does play you into sweepers more. Idyllic Tutor is played but not in your deck, you need Quest not at 2 or 3 but at 1. Probably should play Cranial Plating too (dunno how expensive that card is online), Mortarpod too to give it a little more reach. The black zombie line would be more resilient too, albeit not that explosive. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
For a second win condition - if your equipment gets destroyed before swinging once - it could be interesting to throw some Grafted Exoeskeleton in the sideboard. It can be hardcasted as a 4 mana and equipped right away with the paladin. Infect for 10 looks more viable than dealing 20+ damage with those creatures tbh. Of course if the Quest dies before going off then its probably GG anyway. | ||
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