|
On August 10 2012 23:40 balosan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 22:45 daemir wrote:
So you're hesistant because someone might have 10% faster leveling?
Hey, if you aren't prepurchasing, you aren't getting to the headstart launch, so it's completely and utterly irrelevant anyway. There's gonna be people with higher true level (more utilities unlocked, more traits) in WvWvW anyway if you aren't part of the first wave.
What the heck does it matter then? I'm totally against pay to win, but I couldn't care a rat's ass less if someone has sun glasses on their character and gain 10% more xp that they paid cash for.
and ditto for any gold advantage. There's always gonna be a bigger fish and if you aren't part of the launch at 25th, there's gonna be half a million bigger fish than you, so what the hell does it matter at all. Yes exactly 10% faster leveling for real money is a problem for me. I dont care that there will be people with higher level then me when they play longer. And i wouldnt care at all if some1 has sun glasses on their character for money, but more magic find more xp and who know what more later on makes it a big deal for me and makes me loose alot of fun from game. Plaaying game thats all about collecting stuff and develpoing ur character doesnt feel right when some1 has bonuses to this things for cash, and not because i want to compete and be number 1 but this system dispose alot of satisfaction from achiving something when u have in my mind that doing so could be easier or just accelerated by paying.
You can buy "gems" which is what you can buy with real money and can trade for these rewards with ingame currency as well. You also get those boost items from quests once in a while just playing regularly.
The first thing I will do in GW2 is get enough gems from ingame gold to buy 3 more character slots so I can make 1 of each! I always hated having max 8 slots in GW1 so I had to leave 2 professions behind (since I wasn't going to spend real money) so this news was pretty much epic for me.
|
On August 11 2012 00:10 chaokel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 23:40 balosan wrote:On August 10 2012 22:45 daemir wrote:
So you're hesistant because someone might have 10% faster leveling?
Hey, if you aren't prepurchasing, you aren't getting to the headstart launch, so it's completely and utterly irrelevant anyway. There's gonna be people with higher true level (more utilities unlocked, more traits) in WvWvW anyway if you aren't part of the first wave.
What the heck does it matter then? I'm totally against pay to win, but I couldn't care a rat's ass less if someone has sun glasses on their character and gain 10% more xp that they paid cash for.
and ditto for any gold advantage. There's always gonna be a bigger fish and if you aren't part of the launch at 25th, there's gonna be half a million bigger fish than you, so what the hell does it matter at all. Yes exactly 10% faster leveling for real money is a problem for me. I dont care that there will be people with higher level then me when they play longer. And i wouldnt care at all if some1 has sun glasses on their character for money, but more magic find more xp and who know what more later on makes it a big deal for me and makes me loose alot of fun from game. Plaaying game thats all about collecting stuff and develpoing ur character doesnt feel right when some1 has bonuses to this things for cash, and not because i want to compete and be number 1 but this system dispose alot of satisfaction from achiving something when u have in my mind that doing so could be easier or just accelerated by paying. That's something you'll have to deal with on your own then. Nobody else can tell you how to feel about something, if i may be as bold as to suggest something that has helped me. Having your fun, happiness or whatever other emotion depend on the actions of others is a rocky way to live your life, you can't expect others to change just for you.
How is it possible that my problem with pay for advantage in your eyes comes down to my emotions deepending on others. I even said that i dont care about other ppl having higher level then me. Money involved in getting ahead in rpg (mostly but not only) game makes it less fun because you are not working on progress but buying it. This is simpliest (with my weak english) way to describe my problem.
|
On August 11 2012 00:19 balosan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:10 chaokel wrote:On August 10 2012 23:40 balosan wrote:On August 10 2012 22:45 daemir wrote:
So you're hesistant because someone might have 10% faster leveling?
Hey, if you aren't prepurchasing, you aren't getting to the headstart launch, so it's completely and utterly irrelevant anyway. There's gonna be people with higher true level (more utilities unlocked, more traits) in WvWvW anyway if you aren't part of the first wave.
What the heck does it matter then? I'm totally against pay to win, but I couldn't care a rat's ass less if someone has sun glasses on their character and gain 10% more xp that they paid cash for.
and ditto for any gold advantage. There's always gonna be a bigger fish and if you aren't part of the launch at 25th, there's gonna be half a million bigger fish than you, so what the hell does it matter at all. Yes exactly 10% faster leveling for real money is a problem for me. I dont care that there will be people with higher level then me when they play longer. And i wouldnt care at all if some1 has sun glasses on their character for money, but more magic find more xp and who know what more later on makes it a big deal for me and makes me loose alot of fun from game. Plaaying game thats all about collecting stuff and develpoing ur character doesnt feel right when some1 has bonuses to this things for cash, and not because i want to compete and be number 1 but this system dispose alot of satisfaction from achiving something when u have in my mind that doing so could be easier or just accelerated by paying. That's something you'll have to deal with on your own then. Nobody else can tell you how to feel about something, if i may be as bold as to suggest something that has helped me. Having your fun, happiness or whatever other emotion depend on the actions of others is a rocky way to live your life, you can't expect others to change just for you. How is it possible that my problem with pay for advantage in your eyes comes down to my emotions deepending on others. I even said that i dont care about other ppl having higher level then me. Money involved in getting ahead in rpg (mostly but not only) game makes it less fun because you are not working on progress but buying it. This is simpliest (with my weak english) way to describe my problem.
You're nitpicking incredibly though. 10% xp difference is virtually nothing, and can easily be made up by playing half an hour longer each day, or a little bit more efficient.
Also, how does it negatively influence you when someone else levels up faster? That's incredibly egotistical in a way, like you're upset because your neighbour got a new car as present.
|
Yes exactly 10% faster leveling for real money is a problem for me. I dont care that there will be people with higher level then me when they play longer. And i wouldnt care at all if some1 has sun glasses on their character for money, but more magic find more xp and who know what more later on makes it a big deal for me and makes me loose alot of fun from game. Plaaying game thats all about collecting stuff and develpoing ur character doesnt feel right when some1 has bonuses to this things for cash, and not because i want to compete and be number 1 but this system dispose alot of satisfaction from achiving something when u have in my mind that doing so could be easier or just accelerated by paying.
Stop talking like this game is Aion or WoW type, it is not based on grind!! It will not force you to play countless hours to achieve something. You can reach max lvl in 1 weeks (I reached lvl 25 in one weekend) and you'll most likely have the best gear (but not best looking) in 2 weeks also, as all the top gear stats are the same. The magic find and faster lvling might give someone an advantage in mixing more stuff for the djinn, but you can always wait for someone to post what to mix and not experiment with it. It's a game of exploration, lore and epicness, and not killing 1mln mobs for x, or killing 1k raids for y.
|
On August 11 2012 00:33 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:19 balosan wrote:On August 11 2012 00:10 chaokel wrote:On August 10 2012 23:40 balosan wrote:On August 10 2012 22:45 daemir wrote:
So you're hesistant because someone might have 10% faster leveling?
Hey, if you aren't prepurchasing, you aren't getting to the headstart launch, so it's completely and utterly irrelevant anyway. There's gonna be people with higher true level (more utilities unlocked, more traits) in WvWvW anyway if you aren't part of the first wave.
What the heck does it matter then? I'm totally against pay to win, but I couldn't care a rat's ass less if someone has sun glasses on their character and gain 10% more xp that they paid cash for.
and ditto for any gold advantage. There's always gonna be a bigger fish and if you aren't part of the launch at 25th, there's gonna be half a million bigger fish than you, so what the hell does it matter at all. Yes exactly 10% faster leveling for real money is a problem for me. I dont care that there will be people with higher level then me when they play longer. And i wouldnt care at all if some1 has sun glasses on their character for money, but more magic find more xp and who know what more later on makes it a big deal for me and makes me loose alot of fun from game. Plaaying game thats all about collecting stuff and develpoing ur character doesnt feel right when some1 has bonuses to this things for cash, and not because i want to compete and be number 1 but this system dispose alot of satisfaction from achiving something when u have in my mind that doing so could be easier or just accelerated by paying. That's something you'll have to deal with on your own then. Nobody else can tell you how to feel about something, if i may be as bold as to suggest something that has helped me. Having your fun, happiness or whatever other emotion depend on the actions of others is a rocky way to live your life, you can't expect others to change just for you. How is it possible that my problem with pay for advantage in your eyes comes down to my emotions deepending on others. I even said that i dont care about other ppl having higher level then me. Money involved in getting ahead in rpg (mostly but not only) game makes it less fun because you are not working on progress but buying it. This is simpliest (with my weak english) way to describe my problem. You're nitpicking incredibly though. 10% xp difference is virtually nothing, and can easily be made up by playing half an hour longer each day, or a little bit more efficient.
Ok i guess im done with this thread, you use my argument which is: i have to play longer and work harder to overcome real money as an argument for why its not pay for advantage. I think we can agree that its kind of pointless to argue with you guys since you are blindly defending tmodel used in GW2.
Lesson learned dont wait for arguments from fans.
|
On August 11 2012 00:38 balosan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:33 heishe wrote:On August 11 2012 00:19 balosan wrote:On August 11 2012 00:10 chaokel wrote:On August 10 2012 23:40 balosan wrote:On August 10 2012 22:45 daemir wrote:
So you're hesistant because someone might have 10% faster leveling?
Hey, if you aren't prepurchasing, you aren't getting to the headstart launch, so it's completely and utterly irrelevant anyway. There's gonna be people with higher true level (more utilities unlocked, more traits) in WvWvW anyway if you aren't part of the first wave.
What the heck does it matter then? I'm totally against pay to win, but I couldn't care a rat's ass less if someone has sun glasses on their character and gain 10% more xp that they paid cash for.
and ditto for any gold advantage. There's always gonna be a bigger fish and if you aren't part of the launch at 25th, there's gonna be half a million bigger fish than you, so what the hell does it matter at all. Yes exactly 10% faster leveling for real money is a problem for me. I dont care that there will be people with higher level then me when they play longer. And i wouldnt care at all if some1 has sun glasses on their character for money, but more magic find more xp and who know what more later on makes it a big deal for me and makes me loose alot of fun from game. Plaaying game thats all about collecting stuff and develpoing ur character doesnt feel right when some1 has bonuses to this things for cash, and not because i want to compete and be number 1 but this system dispose alot of satisfaction from achiving something when u have in my mind that doing so could be easier or just accelerated by paying. That's something you'll have to deal with on your own then. Nobody else can tell you how to feel about something, if i may be as bold as to suggest something that has helped me. Having your fun, happiness or whatever other emotion depend on the actions of others is a rocky way to live your life, you can't expect others to change just for you. How is it possible that my problem with pay for advantage in your eyes comes down to my emotions deepending on others. I even said that i dont care about other ppl having higher level then me. Money involved in getting ahead in rpg (mostly but not only) game makes it less fun because you are not working on progress but buying it. This is simpliest (with my weak english) way to describe my problem. You're nitpicking incredibly though. 10% xp difference is virtually nothing, and can easily be made up by playing half an hour longer each day, or a little bit more efficient. Ok i guess im done with this thread, you use my argument which is i have to play longer and work harder to overcome real money as an argument for why its not pay for advantage. I think we can agree that its kind of pointless to argue with you guys since you are blindly defending tmodel used in GW2. Lesson learned dont wait for arguments from fans.
Nah, you're right in that sense. Of course it's pay for advantage. But the thing is that the advantage doesn't influence you personally at all, and is only for the person buying it. So it's not "pay for advantage over other players", and more like "pay for advantage over time".
And by the way, if you're looking at it from the perspective of having to work harder than others... it's a game dude. If anything, you're having more fun because you get enjoy a certain part of the game longer. If it's all boring and a grind to you, I suggest you look into whether this kind of game is a meaningful investment of time for you.
Also don't use ad hominem attacks as a way of reasoning your opinion. It's a very bad logical fallacy.
|
Lalalaland34492 Posts
Once again, I love the guys that blindly and stubbornly defend their point of view no matter the number of people that try to help him see otherwise.
|
On August 11 2012 00:48 Firebolt145 wrote:
Once again, I love the guys that blindly and stubbornly defend their point of view no matter the number of people that try to help him see otherwise.
Because quality of argument rise with number of people repeating it, was abit different in history.
I see your point guys and im thankfull for alot of info u provided. But from reading all this i just know that GW2 is not for me. Also convincing me that money doesnt give you big advantage or that i will almost never feel it, is simply not enough for me to ignore this minus of game.
|
Lalalaland34492 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:56 balosan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:48 Firebolt145 wrote:
Once again, I love the guys that blindly and stubbornly defend their point of view no matter the number of people that try to help him see otherwise. Because quality of argument rise with number of people repeating it, was abit different in history. I see your point guys and im thankfull for alot of info u provided. But from reading all this i just know that GW2 is not for me. Also convincing me that money doesnt give you big advantage or that i will almost never feel it, is simply not enough for me to ignore this minus of game.
For every Galileo there were millions of idiots who were wrong.
|
On August 11 2012 00:19 balosan wrote:
How is it possible that my problem with pay for advantage in your eyes comes down to my emotions deepending on others. I even said that i dont care about other ppl having higher level then me. Money involved in getting ahead in rpg (mostly but not only) game makes it less fun because you are not working on progress but buying it. This is simpliest (with my weak english) way to describe my problem.
Well from what you said previously, you get less enjoyment out of the game because other people can pay to speed up their progress, even though said progress doesn't impact on your actual gameplay at all, other than your obvious misgivings. Hence why i said the actions of others (other people buying advantages) were affecting your emotions (you getting less enjoyment). If you didn't care about what they were doing, or not let it bother you then you would be able to get full enjoyment from the game right?
|
On August 11 2012 01:00 chaokel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:19 balosan wrote:
How is it possible that my problem with pay for advantage in your eyes comes down to my emotions deepending on others. I even said that i dont care about other ppl having higher level then me. Money involved in getting ahead in rpg (mostly but not only) game makes it less fun because you are not working on progress but buying it. This is simpliest (with my weak english) way to describe my problem.
Well from what you said previously, you get less enjoyment out of the game because other people can pay to speed up their progress, even though said progress doesn't impact on your actual gameplay at all, other than your obvious misgivings. Hence why i said the actions of others (other people buying advantages) were affecting your emotions (you getting less enjoyment). If you didn't care about what they were doing, or not let it bother you then you would be able to get full enjoyment from the game right?
Not action of others but posibility of buying this thing so its not others affecting my feelings but game itself does. I will repeat myself 3rd time, i dont care that some1 else have higher level then me and i dont care to be number one in this game.
Obvious missgivings ? Sorry that im not clear with my problem, buying advantage for money is so small that for sure that cannot be my main point right, well that is my main point which is as obvious as the fact that discussion in this thread is like hitting wall with head.
|
Lalalaland34492 Posts
Consider that discussing this with you is also like banging the wall with our heads. :D
|
Oh yeah how dare i not like the game u like and not be fanboy of GW2. But if u expected that then yea discussion with me is like that.
|
I really don't get it. Balosan doesn't like the idea of buying an advantage with money even it the only advantage you can buy with money is that you have to spend less time on the game to get to a certain point that doesn't confer a competitive advantage. Wut.
On August 10 2012 23:12 Flicky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 21:56 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 10 2012 19:29 Flicky wrote:On August 10 2012 12:51 vaL4r wrote:QUOTE]On August 10 2012 12:18 Ryuu314 wrote:
It's like in MtG. Can you imagine if you were allowed to change the cards in your deck between turns? That would be utterly stupid. You can change your cards in between matches, which is fine, but never during a game because that defeats the purpose of building a deck. Same thing for skill builds in GW2.
It would be like be able to swap out a bunch of cards you really want for a few worse cards so that you can use one of the cards for a minor gain. Meanwhile if someone puts down a card during this time, you're stuck with these weaker cards until play stops. It's really not a problem. I haven't found a single argument for it that makes it worth removing. ArenaNet need to stand their ground on this one. If you hate having a mesmer gain swiftness for a few moments then chase them down in stealth and force them to use it in a fight. Just think about the balance it might save. What if (for some hypothetical reason) Pistol/Shield Engineer is absolute dick against a Mesmer and the other team has two? Do you want to just plough through that game doing nothing to 2/5ths of their team or do you at least want a shot? Anyone who argues that it breaks immersion in a game where you pick what server you want to PVP on from a server lobby akin to an FPS is an absolute idiot. Choosing a stronger weapon set or mobility is a strategic choice that you should have to make and stick with. I mean, sure, everybody can do it, but if you could swap out weapons out of combat purely for swiftness/mobility, then why doesn't Anet just give everybody a mobility boost out of combat? Firstly, everyone does have a movement speed bonus outside of combat.
Yes, but the only reason why you'd swap to another weapon set outside of combat is to gain an additional movement speed bonus and/or to apply boons before going into the next fight.
Show nested quote +By allowing this you're essentially forcing an arbitrary, pointless mechanical maneuver on the part of the player. This point doesn't make any sense to me. The only way you'd be "forced" to do it is if you absolutely want every advantage in a fight. There are lots of high-level mechanics in every game you've ever played, a majority of which you've ignored. Why is this one any different. If you think it's too much effort to equip something temporarily then don't do it and don't whine if the person who can be bothered to do it gets an advantage.
The thing is, this isn't a high-level mechanic. It's a very simple mechanic that everyone will essentially be forced to do simply because it offers an advantage for very minimal skill/effort. I'd be fine if this was some kind of super skillful maneuver that you can exploit to separate yourself from the average player, but it's not. This is very simple and very repetitive and very easy. It's kind of like having to walk back and forth between the bank and crafting station. There's no real point behind except that you have to. If they leave this in, anybody who plays PvP at any competitive level will have to do this even though it requires absolutely no skill and no strategic thought. And since everybody will be doing it, why don't Anet just automate it? It's essentially just a pointless series of extra clicks.
I can't imagine that it would cause balance issues. If anything it would fix them. I've been playing an engineer build that allows permanent swiftness (inside and outside of combat with no skill or weapon swapping) and 10k Rocket Jump crits. There's no trade off there for mobility and power. Swapping a weapon won't change your armour's stats. I don't get how adding an extra strategic choice (should I swap out this weapon or not, what if I get caught by X without my Bow etc) removes strategic choice.
Assuming that engineer build is balanced and not overpowered, I'm sure there's some tradeoff elsewhere. In a balanced game, every build will have some form of tradeoff. Even well-rounded builds have the drawback of being a "master of none" type deal.
I guess what I'm trying to argue is that swapping weapon sets offers a significant enough advantage that everyone will be forced into doing it, at which point it becomes a really pointless endeavor. At the same time, swapping weapon sets outside of combat takes minimal skill and offers no strategic depth outside of "screwed if I get caught omg." You're not giving anything up when you swap a weapon set outside of combat except for the fact that you're running the risk of getting caught, which in my opinion isn't much of a risk/strategic choice at all.
I will concede that allowing people to change builds during a match does offer some measure of strategic depth. However, due to how traits are set up, it is highly unlikely that changing weapon sets will ever be optimal outside of applying pre-battle boons. Furthermore, Anet designed the game to have a cap of 2 weapon sets at a time. The way it is currently essentially circumvents that cap, which I believe is an unintended consequence of the combat system. Otherwise, why even have a cap on weapon sets at all? Not only that, but even though there is strategy in allowing people to change builds, I'd argue that there's just as much strategy in forcing people to stick to a specific build. Making optimal choices and facing the consequences of those choices is a very important skill in a competitive setting.
|
The 2000s internet argument, someone disagrees you about X, he is fanboi of X. Sigh.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store
under boosts is what you can get with gems, I got some of those boosts from pvp chests that I gained by simply playing sPvP. As well as dyes and keys to mystic chests.
And, in the AH, you can buy gems for gold and vice versa.
|
Lalalaland34492 Posts
On August 11 2012 01:16 balosan wrote:
Oh yeah how dare i not like the game u like and not be fanboy of GW2. But if u expected that then yea discussion with me is like that.
Not liking for a valid reason is fine, but your reason is just a little silly in most of our eyes. Oh well.
|
On August 11 2012 01:25 daemir wrote:The 2000s internet argument, someone disagrees you about X, he is fanboi of X. Sigh. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Storeunder boosts is what you can get with gems, I got some of those boosts from pvp chests that I gained by simply playing sPvP. As well as dyes and keys to mystic chests. And, in the AH, you can buy gems for gold and vice versa.
I dont call fanboy every1 who disagrees with me, but if i say that i dont like game advantage over money (which even other ppl in this thread agreed that exists), posting 100 times that its bs and i shouldnt have problem with this advantage is kind of blind fanboism. Also at the begining of discusion i said that i will wait out and perhaps buy game after i can read some feedback or hear about it from friends, but i guess some of you at all cost need to convince me that money advantage is not a bad thing and i should just play more to overcome it.
On August 11 2012 01:26 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 01:16 balosan wrote:
Oh yeah how dare i not like the game u like and not be fanboy of GW2. But if u expected that then yea discussion with me is like that. Not liking for a valid reason is fine, but your reason is just a little silly in most of our eyes. Oh well.
Oh yeah coz u guys decide that its not valid reason and i have no right to dislike it, well fine if u say so...
|
Lalalaland34492 Posts
This is going around in circles. Hope we helped you make your decision somehow. Good luck.
|
Do as you want, but I really think you are just being thick for getting angsty over nothing, if someone wants to keep an experience boost running on them, that's nearly 2 euros per hour. That makes subs from other MMOs look like pennies. I doubt that's gonna be a major issue...
|
a lot of people don't get that this isnt the standard MMO. There is no need to rush to level cap so you can grind gear to be raid ready. I'm pretty sure the game is about the journey making xp boost trivial.So what if other get to 80 first.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
