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On August 10 2012 20:31 balosan wrote:
I was really hyped for gw 2, then i watched totalbiscuit review of beta. I didnt know u can buy game advantage for real money that suck, i have to pay for game and then for micro transitions to be equal to other players. Everything looks good but im not gonna play this pay twice to win thing for sure.
Maybe you should have paid more attention to what he said.
You can buy "boosts", xp boosts and favour boosts etc.
None of that is relevant to being equal to someone else. PVP is nothing to do with xp (since everyone is max level), and the boosts for favour gain don't matter. Why? Because the super high ranked OMG LOOK AT THAT GUY pvp gear has the EXACT same stats as the pvp gear that everyone starts with. When you rank up you get to look better, but it's all cosmetic upgrades. The only thing the store gives you is cosmetic upgrades, and ways to access the cosmetic upgrades faster.
TB didn't do shit all PVP to understand that the "best" pvp armour is no better, stat wise, than the worst pvp armour.
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On August 10 2012 20:50 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 20:31 balosan wrote:
I was really hyped for gw 2, then i watched totalbiscuit review of beta. I didnt know u can buy game advantage for real money that suck, i have to pay for game and then for micro transitions to be equal to other players. Everything looks good but im not gonna play this pay twice to win thing for sure. In this game, you don't pay to win. You pay to look good, and potentially experience late game PvE content with 10% less time spent playing since you can buy 10% higher xp rate. There is a huge difference. In sPvP, everyone is automatically upgraded to the max level with max gear with max skills. GW1 and 2 have always emphasised skill over anything else.
What about aditonal magic find and stuff like this how its not pay to win ?
On August 10 2012 21:45 IMABUNNEH wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 20:31 balosan wrote:
I was really hyped for gw 2, then i watched totalbiscuit review of beta. I didnt know u can buy game advantage for real money that suck, i have to pay for game and then for micro transitions to be equal to other players. Everything looks good but im not gonna play this pay twice to win thing for sure. Maybe you should have paid more attention to what he said. You can buy "boosts", xp boosts and favour boosts etc. None of that is relevant to being equal to someone else. PVP is nothing to do with xp (since everyone is max level), and the boosts for favour gain don't matter. Why? Because the super high ranked OMG LOOK AT THAT GUY pvp gear has the EXACT same stats as the pvp gear that everyone starts with. When you rank up you get to look better, but it's all cosmetic upgrades. The only thing the store gives you is cosmetic upgrades, and ways to access the cosmetic upgrades faster. TB didn't do shit all PVP to understand that the "best" pvp armour is no better, stat wise, than the worst pvp armour.
I hope it will be like you say, im not trying to hate on this game. But for sure im not gonna buy it at release like i planned and see how this pay things turns out.
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On August 10 2012 19:29 Flicky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 12:51 vaL4r wrote:QUOTE]On August 10 2012 12:18 Ryuu314 wrote:
It's like in MtG. Can you imagine if you were allowed to change the cards in your deck between turns? That would be utterly stupid. You can change your cards in between matches, which is fine, but never during a game because that defeats the purpose of building a deck. Same thing for skill builds in GW2.
It would be like be able to swap out a bunch of cards you really want for a few worse cards so that you can use one of the cards for a minor gain. Meanwhile if someone puts down a card during this time, you're stuck with these weaker cards until play stops. It's really not a problem. I haven't found a single argument for it that makes it worth removing. ArenaNet need to stand their ground on this one. If you hate having a mesmer gain swiftness for a few moments then chase them down in stealth and force them to use it in a fight. Just think about the balance it might save. What if (for some hypothetical reason) Pistol/Shield Engineer is absolute dick against a Mesmer and the other team has two? Do you want to just plough through that game doing nothing to 2/5ths of their team or do you at least want a shot? Anyone who argues that it breaks immersion in a game where you pick what server you want to PVP on from a server lobby akin to an FPS is an absolute idiot.
Choosing a stronger weapon set or mobility is a strategic choice that you should have to make and stick with. I mean, sure, everybody can do it, but if you could swap out weapons out of combat purely for swiftness/mobility, then why doesn't Anet just give everybody a mobility boost out of combat? By allowing this you're essentially forcing an arbitrary, pointless mechanical maneuver on the part of the player. Besides, mobility and how fast you can get to places is a balance issue when capping points is a central part of the game. There will definitely be benefits of choosing mobility over power. By allowing weapon swapping out of combat you're taking away that strategic choice.
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On August 10 2012 21:53 balosan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 20:50 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 10 2012 20:31 balosan wrote:
I was really hyped for gw 2, then i watched totalbiscuit review of beta. I didnt know u can buy game advantage for real money that suck, i have to pay for game and then for micro transitions to be equal to other players. Everything looks good but im not gonna play this pay twice to win thing for sure. In this game, you don't pay to win. You pay to look good, and potentially experience late game PvE content with 10% less time spent playing since you can buy 10% higher xp rate. There is a huge difference. In sPvP, everyone is automatically upgraded to the max level with max gear with max skills. GW1 and 2 have always emphasised skill over anything else. What about aditonal magic find and stuff like this how its not pay to win ?
How would you deal more damage in PvP with magic find? Yeah, they can get their items faster than you, but why would you care about that?
Of course you don't have to play, but you said it looked fun to you, it would be a shame if you missed out due to misconceptions.
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On August 10 2012 21:58 Wesso wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 21:53 balosan wrote:On August 10 2012 20:50 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 10 2012 20:31 balosan wrote:
I was really hyped for gw 2, then i watched totalbiscuit review of beta. I didnt know u can buy game advantage for real money that suck, i have to pay for game and then for micro transitions to be equal to other players. Everything looks good but im not gonna play this pay twice to win thing for sure. In this game, you don't pay to win. You pay to look good, and potentially experience late game PvE content with 10% less time spent playing since you can buy 10% higher xp rate. There is a huge difference. In sPvP, everyone is automatically upgraded to the max level with max gear with max skills. GW1 and 2 have always emphasised skill over anything else. What about aditonal magic find and stuff like this how its not pay to win ? How would you deal more damage in PvP with magic find? Yeah, they can get their items faster than you, but why would you care about that? Of course you don't have to play, but you said it looked fun to you, it would be a shame if you missed out due to misconceptions.
I care for game advantage and getting items faster is game advantage. They have more fun from game because they pay thats my problem. Everything u said its true if time wasnt a limited resource, ofcouse i will be able to match this kid with alot of money after 1 year of lvlign up and grinding gear i can understand this part ^^.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
On August 10 2012 21:53 balosan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 20:50 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 10 2012 20:31 balosan wrote:
I was really hyped for gw 2, then i watched totalbiscuit review of beta. I didnt know u can buy game advantage for real money that suck, i have to pay for game and then for micro transitions to be equal to other players. Everything looks good but im not gonna play this pay twice to win thing for sure. In this game, you don't pay to win. You pay to look good, and potentially experience late game PvE content with 10% less time spent playing since you can buy 10% higher xp rate. There is a huge difference. In sPvP, everyone is automatically upgraded to the max level with max gear with max skills. GW1 and 2 have always emphasised skill over anything else. What about aditonal magic find and stuff like this how its not pay to win ?
It means you either find more stuff to sell and thus get more gold. This doesn't change the fact that everyone in PvP is automatically upgraded to the maximum gear possible, so that scene is automatically balanced, regardless of how much gold you have.
If you're talking about PvE, you should know that max gear is quite easy to find. It's the amazing-looking max gear that is difficult to find. They all have exactly the same stats and perform exactly the same way, it's purely aesthetic.
All the stuff you can buy is purely to shave about 10% of your time playing off, whether it's by leveling up faster to experience end-game PvE content faster, or to get 10% more drops to craft 10% more/sell for 10% more money. All this stuff is purely aesthetic and does not give you any advantage in the actual game.
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On August 10 2012 22:05 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 21:53 balosan wrote:On August 10 2012 20:50 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 10 2012 20:31 balosan wrote:
I was really hyped for gw 2, then i watched totalbiscuit review of beta. I didnt know u can buy game advantage for real money that suck, i have to pay for game and then for micro transitions to be equal to other players. Everything looks good but im not gonna play this pay twice to win thing for sure. In this game, you don't pay to win. You pay to look good, and potentially experience late game PvE content with 10% less time spent playing since you can buy 10% higher xp rate. There is a huge difference. In sPvP, everyone is automatically upgraded to the max level with max gear with max skills. GW1 and 2 have always emphasised skill over anything else. What about aditonal magic find and stuff like this how its not pay to win ? It means you either find more stuff to sell and thus get more gold. This doesn't change the fact that everyone in PvP is automatically upgraded to the maximum gear possible, so that scene is automatically balanced, regardless of how much gold you have.
Yea i agree with you, i said it wrong i shouldnt say pay to win, but i should say pay to have advantage in game.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
The advantage -doesn't matter-. I don't care if you get to experience the end-game content 10% faster than me because I can enjoy myself in the lower-level zones because the content is aimed to be spread out evenly. It doesn't matter if you have 10% more gold/karma because all it means is that you have that shiny piece of armor 10% faster than I will, even though it has exactly the same stats that I have.
The advantages are meaningless when we consider them from a skill and gameplay point of view.
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On August 10 2012 22:10 Firebolt145 wrote:
The advantage -doesn't matter-. I don't care if you get to experience the end-game content 10% faster than me because I can enjoy myself in the lower-level zones because the content is aimed to be spread out evenly. It doesn't matter if you have 10% more gold/karma because all it means is that you have that shiny piece of armor 10% faster than I will, even though it has exactly the same stats that I have.
The advantages are meaningless when we consider them from a skill and gameplay point of view.
But they exist and for me its a problem specially when i have to pay to be able to play the game.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
They don't even have a subscription fee.....................gah
...Okay then. As long as you understand what they are and still choose not to play the game it's your choice, I guess. I still think it's a silly one though ~
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the money advantage only affects PvE and World fights so i dont get what the fuss is all about. In WvW zergfests the higher number wins over better gear any day.
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On August 10 2012 22:31 BlindKill wrote:
the money advantage only affects PvE and World fights so i dont get what the fuss is all about. In WvW zergfests the higher number wins over better gear any day.
Pve and world fights are part of game i would play so you see my point now ^^.
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So you're hesistant because someone might have 10% faster leveling?
Hey, if you aren't prepurchasing, you aren't getting to the headstart launch, so it's completely and utterly irrelevant anyway. There's gonna be people with higher true level (more utilities unlocked, more traits) in WvWvW anyway if you aren't part of the first wave.
What the heck does it matter then? I'm totally against pay to win, but I couldn't care a rat's ass less if someone has sun glasses on their character and gain 10% more xp that they paid cash for.
and ditto for any gold advantage. There's always gonna be a bigger fish and if you aren't part of the launch at 25th, there's gonna be half a million bigger fish than you, so what the hell does it matter at all.
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England2670 Posts
On August 10 2012 21:56 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 19:29 Flicky wrote:On August 10 2012 12:51 vaL4r wrote:QUOTE]On August 10 2012 12:18 Ryuu314 wrote:
It's like in MtG. Can you imagine if you were allowed to change the cards in your deck between turns? That would be utterly stupid. You can change your cards in between matches, which is fine, but never during a game because that defeats the purpose of building a deck. Same thing for skill builds in GW2.
It would be like be able to swap out a bunch of cards you really want for a few worse cards so that you can use one of the cards for a minor gain. Meanwhile if someone puts down a card during this time, you're stuck with these weaker cards until play stops. It's really not a problem. I haven't found a single argument for it that makes it worth removing. ArenaNet need to stand their ground on this one. If you hate having a mesmer gain swiftness for a few moments then chase them down in stealth and force them to use it in a fight. Just think about the balance it might save. What if (for some hypothetical reason) Pistol/Shield Engineer is absolute dick against a Mesmer and the other team has two? Do you want to just plough through that game doing nothing to 2/5ths of their team or do you at least want a shot? Anyone who argues that it breaks immersion in a game where you pick what server you want to PVP on from a server lobby akin to an FPS is an absolute idiot. Choosing a stronger weapon set or mobility is a strategic choice that you should have to make and stick with. I mean, sure, everybody can do it, but if you could swap out weapons out of combat purely for swiftness/mobility, then why doesn't Anet just give everybody a mobility boost out of combat?
Firstly, everyone does have a movement speed bonus outside of combat.
By allowing this you're essentially forcing an arbitrary, pointless mechanical maneuver on the part of the player.
This point doesn't make any sense to me. The only way you'd be "forced" to do it is if you absolutely want every advantage in a fight. There are lots of high-level mechanics in every game you've ever played, a majority of which you've ignored. Why is this one any different. If you think it's too much effort to equip something temporarily then don't do it and don't whine if the person who can be bothered to do it gets an advantage.
Besides, mobility and how fast you can get to places is a balance issue when capping points is a central part of the game. There will definitely be benefits of choosing mobility over power. By allowing weapon swapping out of combat you're taking away that strategic choice.
I can't imagine that it would cause balance issues. If anything it would fix them. I've been playing an engineer build that allows permanent swiftness (inside and outside of combat with no skill or weapon swapping) and 10k Rocket Jump crits. There's no trade off there for mobility and power. Swapping a weapon won't change your armour's stats. I don't get how adding an extra strategic choice (should I swap out this weapon or not, what if I get caught by X without my Bow etc) removes strategic choice.
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Another thing to note is that all these "advantages" can be acquired using in-game means without ever paying real money. Gems can be bought using in-game currency, and all the boosts are available either as personal storyline quest rewards or drops from mystic chests. The keys to open these chests, while available for purchase with gems, are also storyline quest rewards and random drops. I also believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this) that the boosts are able to be traded on the trading post for in-game currency.
So it's not that you HAVE to buy gems in order to get all these "advantages" (and I keep quoting that because I really don't see them as big deals at all since the only competitive parts of the game have systems in place to level the playing field), only if you want to acquire them predictably.
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On August 10 2012 22:45 daemir wrote:
So you're hesistant because someone might have 10% faster leveling?
Hey, if you aren't prepurchasing, you aren't getting to the headstart launch, so it's completely and utterly irrelevant anyway. There's gonna be people with higher true level (more utilities unlocked, more traits) in WvWvW anyway if you aren't part of the first wave.
What the heck does it matter then? I'm totally against pay to win, but I couldn't care a rat's ass less if someone has sun glasses on their character and gain 10% more xp that they paid cash for.
and ditto for any gold advantage. There's always gonna be a bigger fish and if you aren't part of the launch at 25th, there's gonna be half a million bigger fish than you, so what the hell does it matter at all.
Yes exactly 10% faster leveling for real money is a problem for me. I dont care that there will be people with higher level then me when they play longer. And i wouldnt care at all if some1 has sun glasses on their character for money, but more magic find more xp and who know what more later on makes it a big deal for me and makes me loose alot of fun from game. Plaaying game thats all about collecting stuff and develpoing ur character doesnt feel right when some1 has bonuses to this things for cash, and not because i want to compete and be number 1 but this system dispose alot of satisfaction from achiving something when u have in my mind that doing so could be easier or just accelerated by paying.
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Lalalaland34503 Posts
Sure I guess if you are aiming to be first to max level or first to the gear cap. If you're aiming for that sort of thing then you're playing the game wrong tbh.
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On August 10 2012 22:04 balosan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 21:58 Wesso wrote:On August 10 2012 21:53 balosan wrote:On August 10 2012 20:50 Firebolt145 wrote:On August 10 2012 20:31 balosan wrote:
I was really hyped for gw 2, then i watched totalbiscuit review of beta. I didnt know u can buy game advantage for real money that suck, i have to pay for game and then for micro transitions to be equal to other players. Everything looks good but im not gonna play this pay twice to win thing for sure. In this game, you don't pay to win. You pay to look good, and potentially experience late game PvE content with 10% less time spent playing since you can buy 10% higher xp rate. There is a huge difference. In sPvP, everyone is automatically upgraded to the max level with max gear with max skills. GW1 and 2 have always emphasised skill over anything else. What about aditonal magic find and stuff like this how its not pay to win ? How would you deal more damage in PvP with magic find? Yeah, they can get their items faster than you, but why would you care about that? Of course you don't have to play, but you said it looked fun to you, it would be a shame if you missed out due to misconceptions. I care for game advantage and getting items faster is game advantage. They have more fun from game because they pay thats my problem. Everything u said its true if time wasnt a limited resource, ofcouse i will be able to match this kid with alot of money after 1 year of lvlign up and grinding gear i can understand this part ^^.
It takes like a month to get the best gear in the game at 80 and there won't be any new none cosmetic gear so you don't have to grind at all, you can grind gear for under a month then never again if you want. With boosts he might get it in three weeks instead of four.
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On August 10 2012 23:41 Firebolt145 wrote:
Sure I guess if you are aiming to be first to max level or first to the gear cap. If you're aiming for that sort of thing then you're playing the game wrong tbh.
I never said im aiming for that, and even if i wanted i didnt play enough diablo 3 to afford it .
Also i have a question is there any info about late game content ? You said that end game gear and level is reachable in short amount of time, what is the gameplay after u already get it.
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On August 10 2012 23:40 balosan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 22:45 daemir wrote:
So you're hesistant because someone might have 10% faster leveling?
Hey, if you aren't prepurchasing, you aren't getting to the headstart launch, so it's completely and utterly irrelevant anyway. There's gonna be people with higher true level (more utilities unlocked, more traits) in WvWvW anyway if you aren't part of the first wave.
What the heck does it matter then? I'm totally against pay to win, but I couldn't care a rat's ass less if someone has sun glasses on their character and gain 10% more xp that they paid cash for.
and ditto for any gold advantage. There's always gonna be a bigger fish and if you aren't part of the launch at 25th, there's gonna be half a million bigger fish than you, so what the hell does it matter at all. Yes exactly 10% faster leveling for real money is a problem for me. I dont care that there will be people with higher level then me when they play longer. And i wouldnt care at all if some1 has sun glasses on their character for money, but more magic find more xp and who know what more later on makes it a big deal for me and makes me loose alot of fun from game. Plaaying game thats all about collecting stuff and develpoing ur character doesnt feel right when some1 has bonuses to this things for cash, and not because i want to compete and be number 1 but this system dispose alot of satisfaction from achiving something when u have in my mind that doing so could be easier or just accelerated by paying.
That's something you'll have to deal with on your own then. Nobody else can tell you how to feel about something, if i may be as bold as to suggest something that has helped me. Having your fun, happiness or whatever other emotion depend on the actions of others is a rocky way to live your life, you can't expect others to change just for you.
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