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On April 08 2013 08:38 Yacobs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 03:50 Excludos wrote:On April 08 2013 03:32 Yacobs wrote:On April 08 2013 02:51 Erasme wrote: this is an amazing game i dont even care if i have infinite health/ammo/vigor, the story is just too fucking good There have been about 100 movies released with the same story. Looper was released a couple years ago and no one flipped out because of how "amazing" its story was. Low standards... the way the story is told is often more important than the story itself. What Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite does best is telling the story. That's pretty ironic considering BioShock Infinite actually does an objectively horrible job telling the story. If the game is broken into three "acts," with act 2 taking place between the time you find Elizabeth until you approach Comstock, act 2's events are completely and totally irrelevant to the actual arc. You spend 6-8 hours delving into a dispute between the Founders and the Vox Populi when this dispute literally has nothing to do with yours or Elizabeth's story. Not a lick. Every couple of hours, your shallowly rendered relationship with Elizabeth evolves, usually demarcated by another piece of her clothing being ripped off, but beyond that they could have removed the middle 8 hours of the game and the story would have been no less understandable.
Yeah, use the word "objective" in a text where you state your oppion about a story.
Again I will tell you, theres a difference between the PLOT and the STORYTELLING in any fictional piece of work. You keep talking about the plot as it was the storytelling. Most good books have pages and pages just fleshing out the world, and minor details that doesn't really impact the plot but moreso gives you an idea about the persons involved, the world they live in so the plot and story is believable and makes you have affection etc towards characters and persons in the plot or story.
+ Show Spoiler +Like the time when Elisabeth kills the Vox populi leader. This is part of the storytelling to make you understand that Elisabeth is a woman of action and that she will take action if she sees something she believes is wrong. This is DIRECTLY drawing the picture of the same person that kills YOU in the final scene, and actually very much makes that scene beleiveable.
Alot other of that part which you "objectively" don't like is drawing out the world that you character lives in, drawing the + Show Spoiler +vast impact "traveling" between dimensions have, so you as the player again understands the major impacts your action, the twins actions and Elisabeths action all have on each dimension.
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On April 08 2013 13:33 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 11:20 antelope591 wrote: Just finished the game....I'm kind of conflicted on it. I thought gameplay was the big weak point and production values were the highest ever in a videogame obv. I liked bioshock 1 and even 2 way better as far as gameplay for example....way too many useless weapons/vigors/gears, no character progression system in an age when more and more fps are implementing them. No hacking or any minigames for that matter -_-. Enemies were boring for a bioshock game.
Normally to me gameplay is everything. I can take a game like bayonetta where the story is zero but play the shit out of it because the gameplay is amazing. But in the end I have to say this is the first time ever for me that I can say the game is worth getting just for the amazing amount of work they put into creating the game world. Even with all the weaknesses I listed playing through the game and experiencing the world and story they created was pretty amazing. I think such effort deserves respect and at least a one time playthrough from any gamer to support similar efforts in the future. Just hope that the next time a developer is able to create such a great an immersive game world they can put as much effort into the gameplay portion. hah I felt like the biggest improvement between infinite and bioshock 1 was the fact that there was no crappy hacking minigame that takes up 5-10% of total playtime. Also there was definitely character progression in the game (different clothing upgrades, upgrading vigors and weapons), although they were all pretty boring. The story/atmosphere is definitely the biggest draw of the game though.
I agree that the hacking in bioshock was too much but something like hacking in bioshock 2 would've been nice to break up the monotony of just going to point A to point B and shooting people over and over. I dont consider going to a vending machine an buying crap character progression. Something like far cry 3 skill trees is character progression. Even the first 2 bioshocks did it a lot better with getting plasmids from little sisters and using them for upgrades instead of just scrounging for coin -_-
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This game disappointed me. 5/10
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I'm still on the fence for this game. I've never been a massive Bioshock fan in the past. How much different is this game from the rest of the series?
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I'd had fun playing this game, untile the final mission. Took me ages to finish!
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On April 12 2013 04:12 _Edge_ wrote: I'm still on the fence for this game. I've never been a massive Bioshock fan in the past. How much different is this game from the rest of the series?
Not much. The story/immersion is as good as you'd expect from a Bioshock game and possibly a bit better, but the shooting and gameplay is just as mediocre.
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Honestly, I think the story's quite a bit lacking from Bioshock 1.
+ Show Spoiler +Yes, the player isn't your standard silent protagonist, and Elizabeth plays a large part, but all other interactions between the major persona in the game are exceedingly limited. A few speeches by the twins, a sermon or two, and that's about it. You don't get very deep into any of their heads and they are all such paragons of their own cliche that it's contrived.
Likewise with the world as a whole, for all your flying in the sky, there isn't that much of an immersion in that. Quite a bit of the gameplay takes place inside, or in significantly tighter quarters than you'd expect, and the parts that are outside don't really give the feeling of 'mid-air' even the skylines are more rail-road than I'd like.
That's nothing next to the utter contrivance of the plot itself. They had loads of wonderful pieces that they could have expanded upon, but they ultimately ended with a hashed psudo-science-fiction theme that was poorly conceived and utterly disappointing, not to mention ultimately morose and circular. All I really felt towards the end was that choice was an illusion, or at the very least ultimately futile. They could have kept with the socio/religious-political/racial tension that they built up earlier and that could have made a very interesting plot, but in the end, neither side was functional. Granted, there was evidence pretty early on that Fitzroy was just another sociopath.
In the end, there were some pretty massive plot-holes, and it left me largely unfulfilled. The ending itself was depressing, confusing, and contrived.
Overall, I'd probably have to rate the game 7.5/10 or so.
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On April 08 2013 17:28 Ota Solgryn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 08:38 Yacobs wrote:On April 08 2013 03:50 Excludos wrote:On April 08 2013 03:32 Yacobs wrote:On April 08 2013 02:51 Erasme wrote: this is an amazing game i dont even care if i have infinite health/ammo/vigor, the story is just too fucking good There have been about 100 movies released with the same story. Looper was released a couple years ago and no one flipped out because of how "amazing" its story was. Low standards... the way the story is told is often more important than the story itself. What Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite does best is telling the story. That's pretty ironic considering BioShock Infinite actually does an objectively horrible job telling the story. If the game is broken into three "acts," with act 2 taking place between the time you find Elizabeth until you approach Comstock, act 2's events are completely and totally irrelevant to the actual arc. You spend 6-8 hours delving into a dispute between the Founders and the Vox Populi when this dispute literally has nothing to do with yours or Elizabeth's story. Not a lick. Every couple of hours, your shallowly rendered relationship with Elizabeth evolves, usually demarcated by another piece of her clothing being ripped off, but beyond that they could have removed the middle 8 hours of the game and the story would have been no less understandable. Yeah, use the word "objective" in a text where you state your oppion about a story. Again I will tell you, theres a difference between the PLOT and the STORYTELLING in any fictional piece of work. You keep talking about the plot as it was the storytelling. Most good books have pages and pages just fleshing out the world, and minor details that doesn't really impact the plot but moreso gives you an idea about the persons involved, the world they live in so the plot and story is believable and makes you have affection etc towards characters and persons in the plot or story. + Show Spoiler +Like the time when Elisabeth kills the Vox populi leader. This is part of the storytelling to make you understand that Elisabeth is a woman of action and that she will take action if she sees something she believes is wrong. This is DIRECTLY drawing the picture of the same person that kills YOU in the final scene, and actually very much makes that scene beleiveable. Alot other of that part which you "objectively" don't like is drawing out the world that you character lives in, drawing the + Show Spoiler +vast impact "traveling" between dimensions have, so you as the player again understands the major impacts your action, the twins actions and Elisabeths action all have on each dimension. If you want to know the difference between plot and storytelling, just look at sc1 vs sc2.
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Just finished playing through this game and I have to say that I absolutely loved it. It is without a doubt one of the best games I've ever played. The immersion was amazing, the setting was unique and beautiful for a game, the characters and voice acting were top notch, and the score for the whole game is superb. This game leashed me in and held me at the screen for hours. There were never pacing problems, I never got bored or felt as though a scene or sequence took too long or short. If you buy one game this year this should be the one.
Seems like people in this thread just want to complain and say that the game isn't really that good to be different than the masses, well I have to say that the masses are right about this game, it is truly a 10/10 hands down I have no problem in saying that.
Brilliant game loved every second of it, will play again.
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I didn't like how artificial and forced they made the characters feel.
+ Show Spoiler +I mean, elizabeth turned into dictator, for some odd reason recollects her decades old feelings and uses her last powers to get in touch with booker and save herself in the past. She said earlier that they were using some devices in the tower to drain power from her, so after she was free to reign she could open or create tears and escape if she remembered her old self. The fact that she didn't until she became an old hag is just bad writing. That's straight up made from thin air. Same thing with booker and the baptism, ops I'm a new man now, guess I'll turn into Hitler cause why not, that would be fun and not unnatural at all.
I won't even touch the subject of how physics change people's personalities. Whatever.
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On April 13 2013 14:13 Steveling wrote:I didn't like how artificial and forced they made the characters feel. + Show Spoiler +I mean, elizabeth turned into dictator, for some odd reason recollects her decades old feelings and uses her last powers to get in touch with booker and save herself in the past. She said earlier that they were using some devices in the tower to drain power from her, so after she was free to reign she could open or create tears and escape if she remembered her old self. The fact that she didn't until she became an old hag is just bad writing. That's straight up made from thin air. Same thing with booker and the baptism, ops I'm a new man now, guess I'll turn into Hitler cause why not, that would be fun and not unnatural at all. I won't even touch the subject of how physics change people's personalities. Whatever.
Please use spoiler tags like so.
Also why do you think 'physics' changes their personalities? + Show Spoiler +I agree that the changes are daft, but its not meant to be 'physics' that changes them, its meant to be the result of different events in their lives, however far-fetched that may be the idea was simply that their time lines diverge at a particular point, in one Booker leads one life and in another he leads a totally different life, its not hard to see how that would end up with a completely different person at the end, maybe not to the extremes the game suggests, but that's fiction for you, the games story is hardly a masterpiece or original.
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On April 13 2013 13:31 peekn wrote: Just finished playing through this game and I have to say that I absolutely loved it. It is without a doubt one of the best games I've ever played. The immersion was amazing, the setting was unique and beautiful for a game, the characters and voice acting were top notch, and the score for the whole game is superb. This game leashed me in and held me at the screen for hours. There were never pacing problems, I never got bored or felt as though a scene or sequence took too long or short. If you buy one game this year this should be the one.
Seems like people in this thread just want to complain and say that the game isn't really that good to be different than the masses, well I have to say that the masses are right about this game, it is truly a 10/10 hands down I have no problem in saying that.
Brilliant game loved every second of it, will play again.
I'm not trying to diminish what you felt, but did you play the first two games, or was this your first bioshock experience? It seems like those who haven't played any previous bioshock games love it, and those that have, feel like it's lacklustre.
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On April 13 2013 18:02 adwodon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 14:13 Steveling wrote:I didn't like how artificial and forced they made the characters feel. + Show Spoiler +I mean, elizabeth turned into dictator, for some odd reason recollects her decades old feelings and uses her last powers to get in touch with booker and save herself in the past. She said earlier that they were using some devices in the tower to drain power from her, so after she was free to reign she could open or create tears and escape if she remembered her old self. The fact that she didn't until she became an old hag is just bad writing. That's straight up made from thin air. Same thing with booker and the baptism, ops I'm a new man now, guess I'll turn into Hitler cause why not, that would be fun and not unnatural at all. I won't even touch the subject of how physics change people's personalities. Whatever. Please use spoiler tags like so. Also why do you think 'physics' changes their personalities? + Show Spoiler +I agree that the changes are daft, but its not meant to be 'physics' that changes them, its meant to be the result of different events in their lives, however far-fetched that may be the idea was simply that their time lines diverge at a particular point, in one Booker leads one life and in another he leads a totally different life, its not hard to see how that would end up with a completely different person at the end, maybe not to the extremes the game suggests, but that's fiction for you, the games story is hardly a masterpiece or original.
Because to be fair in my critique towards the game I read the bioshock wiki. + Show Spoiler +There it is explained that it's the quantum experiments that slowly alter their personalities and even their physiques, that's why comstock became sterile and had to steal a child from an alternative self, which happened to be booker. Even if that all made sense, which it doesn't, these things should be explained in the game.
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Lalalaland34486 Posts
On April 13 2013 23:39 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 18:02 adwodon wrote:On April 13 2013 14:13 Steveling wrote:I didn't like how artificial and forced they made the characters feel. + Show Spoiler +I mean, elizabeth turned into dictator, for some odd reason recollects her decades old feelings and uses her last powers to get in touch with booker and save herself in the past. She said earlier that they were using some devices in the tower to drain power from her, so after she was free to reign she could open or create tears and escape if she remembered her old self. The fact that she didn't until she became an old hag is just bad writing. That's straight up made from thin air. Same thing with booker and the baptism, ops I'm a new man now, guess I'll turn into Hitler cause why not, that would be fun and not unnatural at all. I won't even touch the subject of how physics change people's personalities. Whatever. Please use spoiler tags like so. Also why do you think 'physics' changes their personalities? + Show Spoiler +I agree that the changes are daft, but its not meant to be 'physics' that changes them, its meant to be the result of different events in their lives, however far-fetched that may be the idea was simply that their time lines diverge at a particular point, in one Booker leads one life and in another he leads a totally different life, its not hard to see how that would end up with a completely different person at the end, maybe not to the extremes the game suggests, but that's fiction for you, the games story is hardly a masterpiece or original. Because to be fair in my critique towards the game I read the bioshock wiki. + Show Spoiler +There it is explained that it's the quantum experiments that slowly alter their personalities and even their physiques, that's why comstock became sterile and had to steal a child from an alternative self, which happened to be booker. Even if that all made sense, which it doesn't, these things should be explained in the game. It was indeed explained in the game. There was a voxophone which had Lutece theorising about this.
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Oh well, doesn't change the fact that it's nonsensical.
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On April 13 2013 14:13 Steveling wrote:I didn't like how artificial and forced they made the characters feel. + Show Spoiler +I mean, elizabeth turned into dictator, for some odd reason recollects her decades old feelings and uses her last powers to get in touch with booker and save herself in the past. She said earlier that they were using some devices in the tower to drain power from her, so after she was free to reign she could open or create tears and escape if she remembered her old self. The fact that she didn't until she became an old hag is just bad writing. That's straight up made from thin air. Same thing with booker and the baptism, ops I'm a new man now, guess I'll turn into Hitler cause why not, that would be fun and not unnatural at all. I won't even touch the subject of how physics change people's personalities. Whatever.
+ Show Spoiler +Wait, so you don't think that all born-again Christians go from hardened veteran-murderers into racist, daughter-snatching, tyrannical cliched religious dictators?
You don't hold to a viewpoint that cannot even be described as 1-dimensional it is so shallow?
To me everything that was discussed in the game was so disgustingly shallow. It's expected of video games, but come on don't talk about this game like the story was even close to decent. A toddler could wade in the depth of this game.
P.S. Borrowed the game from a friend. Can't say I understand the praise at all of a linear and mindnumbingly boring game with such a trite story. It looked pretty though, and the voice acting was nice.
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On April 13 2013 23:12 Fumanchu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 13:31 peekn wrote: Just finished playing through this game and I have to say that I absolutely loved it. It is without a doubt one of the best games I've ever played. The immersion was amazing, the setting was unique and beautiful for a game, the characters and voice acting were top notch, and the score for the whole game is superb. This game leashed me in and held me at the screen for hours. There were never pacing problems, I never got bored or felt as though a scene or sequence took too long or short. If you buy one game this year this should be the one.
Seems like people in this thread just want to complain and say that the game isn't really that good to be different than the masses, well I have to say that the masses are right about this game, it is truly a 10/10 hands down I have no problem in saying that.
Brilliant game loved every second of it, will play again. I'm not trying to diminish what you felt, but did you play the first two games, or was this your first bioshock experience? It seems like those who haven't played any previous bioshock games love it, and those that have, feel like it's lacklustre.
I have the first two, and I started to play through them but then something came up. I think that I'm going to go back and play through them then compare the two.
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I replayed 1 and 2 after finishing Infinite just for fun, but it helped clear things up for me personally (and without bias for the most part) about the weapon/equipment system in Infinite after getting the full-on refresher course in all that is Bioshock. What made the weapon system so exciting (at least for me) in 1 and 2 was: 1. There's only ever a limited number of Power to the people (weapon upgrade) stations throughout the game. So whenever you glimpsed one from afar, you knew you just HAD to get it. It's that feeling of finding a Piece of Heart in a Zelda game all over again. Not to mention they make pretty damn significant gameplay changes for your weapons. I feel that 2 did this better because of the third upgrade for any given weapon was always epic, i.e. the tesla coils on shotguns, heated rivets for the rivet gun, etc. 2. There weren't as many weapons as there are in Infinite so each felt unique in their purpose for the most part. 3. Cosmetics. This is the least significant reason, but still it's nice to actually see the tesla coils/lightbulb thingamabobs on your shotgun.
I guess what I couldn't grasp during my first playthrough of infinite was how weird it felt to find a weapon upgrade station and then just abandon it because there weren't any new upgrades for that favorite weapon of yours. Or that the bonuses the upgrades provided were fairly generic and not as exciting. Or how I constantly picked up ammo for the duplicate guns I was never going to use.
The whole bit with the equipment was a nice idea, but as for the effects that most of them provide...I didn't end up liking a majority of them except for like one totally awesome piece. Everything else kind of fell by the wayside in comparison. A prime example would be the piece of equipment that shortens the delay for shield recharge and also speeds up the shield regen rate. I don't really know how everyone else played, but that piece of equipment was literally the best in slot right there. I used that basically until the game ended. The 1 and 2 equivalent of these "equipment" pieces would be the gene tonics, but the difference is that there were so many good gene tonics to the point where I didn't have enough slots to fit them all .
I loved the vigors and their upgrades and I totally don't care if crows = direct copy of bees or whatever like so many reviews nitpick on. Crows are pretty badass imo. Undertow is just frikkin awesome. I played around with that in my 2nd playthrough and it was so friggin fun!
The reason I wrote this up is basically because, at least for me, all that shit I wrote above was the only "huge chunk" of that Bioshock-feel that was missing for me in Infinite. The story, the music (Garry Schyman is the man), the sounds, the characters, the environment, the mother-humpin skyhook system...all of it was amazing. I just couldn't get a clear grasp on what it was that was missing for me until I replayed the previous games. I really hope the dlc content in the future has some of the stuff they scrapped out from their E3 demo.
slightly unrelated sidenote: how amazing would it be if Arkane Studios got together with Irrational and created something. I lurved dishonored's gameplay SO MUCH .. if that was mixed together with Levine's way of telling/showing us a story my life would be complete.
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I have a question: + Show Spoiler + How come Booker doesn't recognize Comstock as the man who took his baby away?
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Lalalaland34486 Posts
On April 18 2013 03:37 ryc wrote:I have a question: + Show Spoiler + How come Booker doesn't recognize Comstock as the man who took his baby away? + Show Spoiler +because comstock's age was accelerated by exposure to lutece's machines, and because comstock grew a beard and went white
edit: nvm had completely misread the question
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