EPTOf course he is talented enough to dribble 3-4 players and chip it over the goalkeeper. He does it really often, but IMHO he does it that often because of Barça mass possession gameplan, not because he is a level over any other player.
2010-2011 football (soccer) thread - Page 38
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Telemako
Spain1637 Posts
Of course he is talented enough to dribble 3-4 players and chip it over the goalkeeper. He does it really often, but IMHO he does it that often because of Barça mass possession gameplan, not because he is a level over any other player. | ||
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eaT_Mi_Lquid
Germany509 Posts
On September 18 2010 22:18 MaGic~PhiL wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2010 07:13 eaT_Mi_Lquid wrote: Messi is neither on another level nor overrated, because it is the whole Barca team that's running like an oiled machine ! However you only see Messi deciding games on his own while playing for Barca, but u won't see Messi deciding games for Argentina. He has played since his youth for Barca and he knows the Barca style in and out. And by playing this Barca style he can shine and he can be one of the best, because he has teammates who also know this Barca style in and out, and together they gel like no other team. In my eyes he's a superb player but he has to prove himself to be the greatest by suceeding with another team other than Barca. I don't think that the reason he fails for Argentina is because of uncapable Argentinean teammates or coaches, but it is his style which he has learnt at barca and (yet) can not changed for the Argentinean national team. If you look at other great players there are many that only succeed for 1 team and fails for any other team, the reasons for it may be differently (coaching/staffs, personal problems, mentality etc.) but i BELIEVE that a huge factor is whether they have the ability to change or adapt their style to have success. All this things combined equals to something i would call "footballing intelligence" and for me this is the main factor by which I rate players, AND NOT by scoring goals like a machine domestically, where you don't have a basis for comparisons.... Messi excells only in scoring goals for Barcelona and has only been successful with Barca, not like others (e.g. Zidane) who were sucessful everywhere where they arrived at, therefore I wouldn't call him one of the greatest yet. As whether he is or is not the current best player, i don't know because his success is strongly tied with contributions of other players like Xavi/Iniesta and he isn't really an one-man show by himself. Some things you are said are just wrong imo. 1) Messi is on another level than most other professional players. Its a fact. 2) I dont know for what reason Messi isnt doing well in Argentina but it has to be something else than his skills suddenly droping to zero. So its nothing you can blame him for imo. 3) I definitely would call him one of the greatest already. Definitely. And everyone who loves and knows soccer no matter which team he supports should agree. 4) I agree that playing in Barca with such amazing partners as xavi, iniesta, villa ect.. doesnt hurt but how can you say messi is not a one-man show by himself ? He scored 4 goals vs Arsenal. He scored 3 goals in so many games in La Liga. Now you might again say but thats due the style and strength of barca and I partially agree but did u see how many goals messi scored where he just was fooling with 2-5 defensive players and simply put the ball into the back of the net ? I mean watch some of his goals. The majority of them are just a one man show.. Just my thoughts, though The good thing about football is that we will never know the truth, therefore can speculate as much as we want. to 1) When i wrote on another level, i do not mean the avarage guy playing football, but the likes of Messi himself, such as Ronaldo, Robben, Rooney (I named 3 people with the 'R' on purpose  ) etc. And as such i don't think Messi is that much better, because he somehow doesn't deliver under national flag.2) well fact is that his contributions for the argentinean national team has dropped to a minumum of what he's capable of. In the last WC he was the main figure of Argentina and he couldn't deliver IMO. 3) As i said, i don't measure anyone on goals and call him 'the greatest', especially not when it's at domestic stage. Messi only scores in Barca jersey. Besides this i won't call him the greatest because his success "only" consists of 1 CL title (2 as sub, but not as a regular starter), some La Liga titles. When you compare that with other great players, it is not that much. 4) What i mean is that the Barca team is playing well. When he scored those 4 goals, it was the whole team (esp. Xavi) who serves Messi the ball on a silver platter. I've never seen Messi carrying his team while his team mates played bad, granted it is difficult for a forward to carry if your team sucks. That's just my thought, i am aware that it is highly speculative, but what ever ...  | ||
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sixfour
England11062 Posts
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BeaTeR
Kazakhstan4130 Posts
On September 19 2010 01:46 sixfour wrote: Arsenal's first goal was hilarious that was one of luckiest goals i've ever seen... | ||
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Freaky[x]
Canada995 Posts
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Azza
China650 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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funkie
Venezuela9376 Posts
It's like, come on, at least make it a "save" for the GK but..come on  .Well, Fabregas goal was fucking funny haha :D | ||
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FireBlast!
United Kingdom5251 Posts
I wouldnt say he was disappointing at the World Cup either, he was clearly chafed by Maradona's idiocy. It was his first full World Cup debut (cameos in 2006 doesnt count) at the age of 23. He's got at least two more to go- we'll see then. There are so many make-or-break variables for a player leading up to a world cup, you cant judge them in these single instances. If anything how awesome does Messi have to be to be the 'standout' in that crowd? To be considered to "integral" despite the ridiculous individual talent Barca can rely on? | ||
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BeaTeR
Kazakhstan4130 Posts
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imperfect
Canada1652 Posts
one sloppy clearance and that's what you get. good game. thought arsenal had it despite missing the penalty. | ||
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Azza
China650 Posts
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Freaky[x]
Canada995 Posts
The red card was weak and the penalty giving was missed. Arsenal didn't come to play today, they came to defend and I don't think they deserved to win although they outplayed sunderland with a man down. It was an unlucky tie. It's okay, there are other games to be played like vs spurs midweek and they should concentrate on that. | ||
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MetalMarine
United States1559 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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MetalMarine
United States1559 Posts
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
Guess why. OMG, Bribing?! No way, this would neeeever happen. Noooo! | ||
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Drteeth
Great Britain415 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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MadVillain
United States402 Posts
On September 19 2010 10:02 SuperJongMan wrote: God damn it. Allegri is a fuckn retard. His management of subs/roster was so fuckn bad... I wanna strangle that son of bitch. I miss you Leonardo. =( I wouldn't blame Allegri so quickly, though I do think he played a part in the draw. Catania's defense was actually very good and the constant double teams on Ronaldinho and Ibra caused them a lot of problems. I can count the number of good crosses dinho put in from the left on one hand which is really bad for him. Definitely should have been a win (just cause of Inzaghi's blown tap in) I dunno whats up with Milan's defense was very shoddy and slow to react, especially on the counter attack. It could have been a lot worse though. | ||
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