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On July 09 2012 14:41 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 13:53 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 13:07 CamTSU wrote:Reposted from reddit, but this is the most well constructed criticism of the game's flaws that I've found so far, and I really think he articulated many of them well. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037265679Hopefully we can pass this along and get it some exposure. I laughed at how he complains about difficulty when he's simply undergeared. Then I stopped reading when he wanted to wade through enemies as though he's invulnerable. Sorry, only elite minions can do that. For the part that I read, he has some valid points, but the rest is just whining. Right now as the game is itemized now, you can start inferno with gear ~15-20% of max, finish inferno at 30-40%. When you get to the 70-80%+ you damn well should be able to wade through monsters as if you were invulnerable. Hell was hard in D2 if you had no idea what you were doing, It also became faceroll if you did know what you were doing.
That's what he wanted to do... obviously he isn't gonna live very long doing that.
On July 09 2012 14:48 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 13:53 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 13:07 CamTSU wrote:Reposted from reddit, but this is the most well constructed criticism of the game's flaws that I've found so far, and I really think he articulated many of them well. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037265679Hopefully we can pass this along and get it some exposure. I laughed at how he complains about difficulty when he's simply undergeared. Then I stopped reading when he wanted to wade through enemies as though he's invulnerable. Sorry, only elite minions can do that. For the part that I read, he has some valid points, but the rest is just whining. Are you joking or did you not even read the post? His points are valid. Ps I don't think the game is hard. Act 1 was hard until I geared up on auction. Now its a joke. Act 3 is tough for me, but once I get more boring gear (cause the itemization is broken as mentioned in the post) it will be zzzz ez. Yet I find myself agreeing with the article.
Yes. Some of his points are valid. Some of his ain't. He comes off as another one who complains that he can't just 1a to victory, even after Blizzard nerfed Inferno to satisfy players like him. If he didn't whine about being undergeared, I would have agreed with much more of his post.
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What's the best/fastest way to level to 60 without the help of anyone these days? My barb is 31 atm
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On July 09 2012 16:30 Jasarn wrote:
What's the best/fastest way to level to 60 without the help of anyone these days? My barb is 31 atm
If you use the AH, normal levelling is pretty fast. I bought some +exp equip for normal; a decent-ish weapon for early nightmare; some vitality + mainstat gear for later nightmare &hell & a -18 level requirement weapon with life on hit. Took me about ~13 hours to level barb from 1 to 60. I did spend ~2 mill on the 1 hander (550 dips, 750 loh) but also sold it instantly after I was done with it. All in all my barb made more gold levelling then I spend on his levelling gear.
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On July 09 2012 16:30 Jasarn wrote:
What's the best/fastest way to level to 60 without the help of anyone these days? My barb is 31 atm
Kill the wretched mothers and the wretched queen for quest exp. Or go to the entrance of Leoric's Manor and kill the 30+ cultists for massacre bonus.
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On July 09 2012 16:30 Jasarn wrote:
What's the best/fastest way to level to 60 without the help of anyone these days? My barb is 31 atm
Don't forget a socketed helm with a... I think it's a ruby in it for XP bonus? The other stats don't really matter, you can probably get one super cheap.
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So... how often do you guys get 6 property ilvl63s? I think the number of properties are kind of more important than the ilvl? I rather get (for armors) a 6 prop ilvl 62 than a 4 prop 63? How many % of drops are 4/5/6 properties? Anyone got any idea?
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just me who keeps getting an "unable to switch heroes" error message when trying to log in and being unable to do so?
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On July 09 2012 17:20 Resolve wrote:
So... how often do you guys get 6 property ilvl63s? I think the number of properties are kind of more important than the ilvl? I rather get (for armors) a 6 prop ilvl 62 than a 4 prop 63? How many % of drops are 4/5/6 properties? Anyone got any idea?
No one has gotten them, because they don't exist.
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I can understand why people hold the sentiment in the reddit post, but the reality is that they just don't understand what's going on.
The game is tuned very carefully, such that there is an expected value / time input in farming. Like a poster said earlier, it's possible to clear the entire game, skipping packs here and there with only 20-40% of the maximum gear possible. It's not possible to farm later acts at the same speed as you would A1 in that gear.
But it takes a lot of time, work, and research to come to that understanding/conclusion. Ultimately, it's all about the performance of the gear.
You "CAN" farm with gimmicky builds (tornado), glass cannons, or LOH tank. Some of these builds have issues dying a bunch, or taking forever to clear. But none of this actually captures what is possible with more gear. With the proper gear, the game can be as EASY AND FAST as normal mode.
For instance, right now, I have a 1h/shield barb with 40K HP, 7-8K armor, 800 AR, with 35K DPS unbuffed. With the passive at full rage, I have 43K DPS. At this gear level, farming A2 is a complete breeze. I don't have to wait for cooldowns, I don't have to wait to clear the level (I just run through to find the elites), and I can take the elites tank and spank. And since my DPS is geared on top of shield+survival, I have enough flexibility/survival to beat any affix without dying. It's easy, and I don't die. The combination of significant DPS, and survival relative to the content makes this as EASY AND FAST as normal mode.
But this gear probably represents only 30-40% of the maximum gear possible. And in the gear I have right now, it is not possible to farm A3. Yes, it is possible to spend 2-3m clearing each pack. But why would you do that, when it takes 15-20s in A2? Consider this: in the maximum gear, a 1H/shield barb can have ~100K dps without buff. DW will have even more DPS provided you have the ability to survive. When I have 70K DPS, I will go into A3 and farm A3 instead.
TLDR: the game is fine, people just underestimate the effect of proper gearing.
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On July 09 2012 18:51 architecture wrote:
I can understand why people hold the sentiment in the reddit post, but the reality is that they just don't understand what's going on.
The game is tuned very carefully, such that there is an expected value / time input in farming. Like a poster said earlier, it's possible to clear the entire game, skipping packs here and there with only 20-40% of the maximum gear possible. It's not possible to farm later acts at the same speed as you would A1 in that gear.
But it takes a lot of time, work, and research to come to that understanding/conclusion. Ultimately, it's all about the performance of the gear.
You "CAN" farm with gimmicky builds (tornado), glass cannons, or LOH tank. Some of these builds have issues dying a bunch, or taking forever to clear. But none of this actually captures what is possible with more gear. With the proper gear, the game can be as EASY AND FAST as normal mode.
For instance, right now, I have a 1h/shield barb with 40K HP, 7-8K armor, 800 AR, with 35K DPS unbuffed. With the passive at full rage, I have 43K DPS. At this gear level, farming A2 is a complete breeze. I don't have to wait for cooldowns, I don't have to wait to clear the level (I just run through to find the elites), and I can take the elites tank and spank. And since my DPS is geared on top of shield+survival, I have enough flexibility/survival to beat any affix without dying. It's easy, and I don't die. The combination of significant DPS, and survival relative to the content makes this as EASY AND FAST as normal mode.
But this gear probably represents only 30-40% of the maximum gear possible. And in the gear I have right now, it is not possible to farm A3. Yes, it is possible to spend 2-3m clearing each pack. But why would you do that, when it takes 15-20s in A2? Consider this: in the maximum gear, a 1H/shield barb can have ~100K dps without buff. DW will have even more DPS provided you have the ability to survive. When I have 70K DPS, I will go into A3 and farm A3 instead.
TLDR: the game is fine, people just underestimate the effect of proper gearing.
For reasonable person, the droprate and difficulty is probably not the main problem (probably not the problem at all). but together with 10 another minor problems with the game since released, people start to hate Jay wilson (shitty legendary take out a lot of fun for me).
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On July 09 2012 18:17 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 17:20 Resolve wrote:
So... how often do you guys get 6 property ilvl63s? I think the number of properties are kind of more important than the ilvl? I rather get (for armors) a 6 prop ilvl 62 than a 4 prop 63? How many % of drops are 4/5/6 properties? Anyone got any idea? No one has gotten them, because they don't exist.
So 63s only can go up to 4 props? Or what
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On July 09 2012 20:25 Resolve wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 18:17 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 17:20 Resolve wrote:
So... how often do you guys get 6 property ilvl63s? I think the number of properties are kind of more important than the ilvl? I rather get (for armors) a 6 prop ilvl 62 than a 4 prop 63? How many % of drops are 4/5/6 properties? Anyone got any idea? No one has gotten them, because they don't exist. So 63s only can go up to 4 props? Or what
No. Only ilvl 62 plans exist.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/blacksmith-plan/
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On July 09 2012 20:27 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 20:25 Resolve wrote:On July 09 2012 18:17 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 17:20 Resolve wrote:
So... how often do you guys get 6 property ilvl63s? I think the number of properties are kind of more important than the ilvl? I rather get (for armors) a 6 prop ilvl 62 than a 4 prop 63? How many % of drops are 4/5/6 properties? Anyone got any idea? No one has gotten them, because they don't exist. So 63s only can go up to 4 props? Or what No. Only ilvl 62 plans exist. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/blacksmith-plan/
I'm not talking about plans. I'm talking about drops. What I meant is that I noticed when I id stuff from farming runs most of them turn out to be 4 props items (biased pov). So I'm asking if anyone knows the % of items that roll with 4/5/6 props.
For example, if the distribution of 4/5/6 props rares is 60/30/10%, given the A3 ilvl 63 drop rates of 16.3%, only 1.63% of said items will roll with 6 props.
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On July 09 2012 20:32 Resolve wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 20:27 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 20:25 Resolve wrote:On July 09 2012 18:17 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 17:20 Resolve wrote:
So... how often do you guys get 6 property ilvl63s? I think the number of properties are kind of more important than the ilvl? I rather get (for armors) a 6 prop ilvl 62 than a 4 prop 63? How many % of drops are 4/5/6 properties? Anyone got any idea? No one has gotten them, because they don't exist. So 63s only can go up to 4 props? Or what No. Only ilvl 62 plans exist. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/blacksmith-plan/ I'm not talking about plans. I'm talking about drops. What I meant is that I noticed when I id stuff from farming runs most of them turn out to be 4 props items (biased pov). So I'm asking if anyone knows the % of items that roll with 4/5/6 props. For example, if the distribution of 4/5/6 props rares is 60/30/10%, given the A3 ilvl 63 drop rates of 16.3%, only 1.63% of said items will roll with 6 props.
Isnt it all relative anyway?
If you only can afford good 4/5 prop items, while you see the 6 prop items expensive as hell on AH and you hear about those supergeared people running with freaking amazing gear. You probably see some screenshots of their gear too.
Now, if Blizz would tweak the droprate to increase 6prop items to the point where you could afford it? Well, then the current people in awesome gear would be running around in fucking max rolled 6prop items and they'd still have much higher dps/survivability than you. Or maybe they'd add 7prop items, and you'd still be one prop behind them?
So does increasing 6prop item drop rate really help you?
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On July 09 2012 20:32 Resolve wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 20:27 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 20:25 Resolve wrote:On July 09 2012 18:17 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 17:20 Resolve wrote:
So... how often do you guys get 6 property ilvl63s? I think the number of properties are kind of more important than the ilvl? I rather get (for armors) a 6 prop ilvl 62 than a 4 prop 63? How many % of drops are 4/5/6 properties? Anyone got any idea? No one has gotten them, because they don't exist. So 63s only can go up to 4 props? Or what No. Only ilvl 62 plans exist. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/blacksmith-plan/ I'm not talking about plans. I'm talking about drops. What I meant is that I noticed when I id stuff from farming runs most of them turn out to be 4 props items (biased pov). So I'm asking if anyone knows the % of items that roll with 4/5/6 props. For example, if the distribution of 4/5/6 props rares is 60/30/10%, given the A3 ilvl 63 drop rates of 16.3%, only 1.63% of said items will roll with 6 props.
No one actually knows the drop rate, unless you tally the results of tens of thousands of drops. Also, it'll be hard to count accurately due to 2 stats from 1 prop or stats which stack..
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On July 09 2012 20:42 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 20:32 Resolve wrote:On July 09 2012 20:27 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 20:25 Resolve wrote:On July 09 2012 18:17 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 17:20 Resolve wrote:
So... how often do you guys get 6 property ilvl63s? I think the number of properties are kind of more important than the ilvl? I rather get (for armors) a 6 prop ilvl 62 than a 4 prop 63? How many % of drops are 4/5/6 properties? Anyone got any idea? No one has gotten them, because they don't exist. So 63s only can go up to 4 props? Or what No. Only ilvl 62 plans exist. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/blacksmith-plan/ I'm not talking about plans. I'm talking about drops. What I meant is that I noticed when I id stuff from farming runs most of them turn out to be 4 props items (biased pov). So I'm asking if anyone knows the % of items that roll with 4/5/6 props. For example, if the distribution of 4/5/6 props rares is 60/30/10%, given the A3 ilvl 63 drop rates of 16.3%, only 1.63% of said items will roll with 6 props. Isnt it all relative anyway? If you only can afford good 4/5 prop items, while you see the 6 prop items expensive as hell on AH and you hear about those supergeared people running with freaking amazing gear. You probably see some screenshots of their gear too. Now, if Blizz would tweak the droprate to increase 6prop items to the point where you could afford it? Well, then the current people in awesome gear would be running around in fucking max rolled 6prop items and they'd still have much higher dps/survivability than you. Or maybe they'd add 7prop items, and you'd still be one prop behind them? So does increasing 6prop item drop rate really help you?
I'm not asking blizzard to tweak anything. My questions are just:
1. What is the maximum number of properties that you can get on rare drop?
2. What is this distribution?
Items do not need 6 godly props to be usable. More props on a rare just means that there is a higher chance of it having the few desired properties. 6 props plans are so much more sought after than 4/5 props plans not just because you can roll 6 godly props instead of 5 godly props. but also you have a higher chance of rolling just 3 or 4 godly props.
The reason why I'm asking this is because atm, crafting lvl 62 items is the seems to be the best source of godly items (?). Even though ilvl 63 items let you choose from a "pool" of better props, if they mostly drop with 4 props, you're still going to get useless stuff more often 6 props ilvl 62. My definition of godly is not max roll on everything, just high rolls, which ilvl 62s are perfectly capable of.
Please disregard weapons entirely for this discussion.
On July 09 2012 20:48 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 20:32 Resolve wrote:On July 09 2012 20:27 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 20:25 Resolve wrote:On July 09 2012 18:17 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 17:20 Resolve wrote:
So... how often do you guys get 6 property ilvl63s? I think the number of properties are kind of more important than the ilvl? I rather get (for armors) a 6 prop ilvl 62 than a 4 prop 63? How many % of drops are 4/5/6 properties? Anyone got any idea? No one has gotten them, because they don't exist. So 63s only can go up to 4 props? Or what No. Only ilvl 62 plans exist. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/blacksmith-plan/ I'm not talking about plans. I'm talking about drops. What I meant is that I noticed when I id stuff from farming runs most of them turn out to be 4 props items (biased pov). So I'm asking if anyone knows the % of items that roll with 4/5/6 props. For example, if the distribution of 4/5/6 props rares is 60/30/10%, given the A3 ilvl 63 drop rates of 16.3%, only 1.63% of said items will roll with 6 props. No one actually knows the drop rate, unless you tally the results of tens of thousands of drops. Also, it'll be hard to count accurately due to 2 stats from 1 prop or stats which stack..
Maybe someone out there would know...
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This is interesting question. I, myself, didn't look on amount of propetites on rare drops. But, from fast AH search, you can see that there is quite big percent of 6 propetites ilvl63 items. And, since best crafted items are only ilvl62, we can assume that they come from drops.
Maybe it's just random, maybe not. It may be possible, that amount of props are determined by acts. It would be nice to get some data about it from farming drifferent acts. It may change quite a lot if we will find out that there is little chance for 6 prop item in act 1, and huge in act 4.
Edit:
I just realised that all ilvl63 6 prop items can have 2 stats that counts as 1... But this also raises question: ?Do the 6 prop crafts spawn separate stats, or there is always 2 of them that counts as 1. This would render 6 prop crafts superiority in that case.
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On July 10 2012 00:33 DnameIN wrote:
This is interesting question. I, myself, didn't look on amount of propetites on rare drops. But, from fast AH search, you can see that there is quite big percent of 6 propetites ilvl63 items. And, since best crafted items are only ilvl62, we can assume that they come from drops.
Maybe it's just random, maybe not. It may be possible, that amount of props are determined by acts. It would be nice to get some data about it from farming drifferent acts. It may change quite a lot if we will find out that there is little chance for 6 prop item in act 1, and huge in act 4.
Edit:
I just realised that all ilvl63 6 prop items can have 2 stats that counts as 1... But this also raises question: ?Do the 6 prop crafts spawn separate stats, or there is always 2 of them that counts as 1. This would render 6 prop crafts superiority in that case.
You see more 6-prop ilvl63 items because most of the crappier 4 and 5-prop ones get vendored.
2-stat props even spawn on blue items.
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On July 09 2012 16:11 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 14:41 Amui wrote:On July 09 2012 13:53 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 13:07 CamTSU wrote:Reposted from reddit, but this is the most well constructed criticism of the game's flaws that I've found so far, and I really think he articulated many of them well. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037265679Hopefully we can pass this along and get it some exposure. I laughed at how he complains about difficulty when he's simply undergeared. Then I stopped reading when he wanted to wade through enemies as though he's invulnerable. Sorry, only elite minions can do that. For the part that I read, he has some valid points, but the rest is just whining. Right now as the game is itemized now, you can start inferno with gear ~15-20% of max, finish inferno at 30-40%. When you get to the 70-80%+ you damn well should be able to wade through monsters as if you were invulnerable. Hell was hard in D2 if you had no idea what you were doing, It also became faceroll if you did know what you were doing. That's what he wanted to do... obviously he isn't gonna live very long doing that. Show nested quote +On July 09 2012 14:48 fishjie wrote:On July 09 2012 13:53 Heh_ wrote:On July 09 2012 13:07 CamTSU wrote:Reposted from reddit, but this is the most well constructed criticism of the game's flaws that I've found so far, and I really think he articulated many of them well. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037265679Hopefully we can pass this along and get it some exposure. I laughed at how he complains about difficulty when he's simply undergeared. Then I stopped reading when he wanted to wade through enemies as though he's invulnerable. Sorry, only elite minions can do that. For the part that I read, he has some valid points, but the rest is just whining. Are you joking or did you not even read the post? His points are valid. Ps I don't think the game is hard. Act 1 was hard until I geared up on auction. Now its a joke. Act 3 is tough for me, but once I get more boring gear (cause the itemization is broken as mentioned in the post) it will be zzzz ez. Yet I find myself agreeing with the article. Yes. Some of his points are valid. Some of his ain't. He comes off as another one who complains that he can't just 1a to victory, even after Blizzard nerfed Inferno to satisfy players like him. If he didn't whine about being undergeared, I would have agreed with much more of his post.
The problem is that the only way to beat the game is through 1a.
Terribly stupid game mechanics such as crowd control completely remove micro from the equation. Oh look arcane sentries I'm going to dodge them, OH WAIT I GOT FEARED. so. freaking. stupid. All crowd control affixes should be removed, period.
So instead I just gear up until I can get chain feared/frozen while being hit by desecration and plague and laugh at the damage. so yeah, 1a (good ol' tank and spank) is the only way to beat the game as a meelee. skill is thrown out the window due to how badly designed this game is.
i only have a barb, but i imagine other classes get hard countered by bs such as reflect damage. pretty sure that's an insta death for DH if they're not careful. in d2 vs iron maiden you could be smart and switch into a weapon like a wand that did low physical damage but tons of elemental damage. or switch to a skill that did all elemental damage. no such luck in d3. i've seen mortar and vortex roflstomp glass cannons as well. like i said, completely stupid abilities that you cannot avoid via "skill" or micro. its like they tried to make the game an MMO.
AWFUL DESIGN.
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There is a stat that reduces CC duration, on top of which every class has a skill that breaks cc (except waller which I agree is annoying as balls and should be reviewed).
Reflect damage can also be countered by switching to LOH weapon. A boring solution, for sure, but it's there for anyone that wants to take it.
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EPT
