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On April 21 2012 23:55 zomgE wrote:
i always find these "true d2 fans" opinions weird.
if d2 is the perfect game for you why are u even waiting for anything else?
Because it clearly isn't a perfect game.
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So I finally, finally had a chance to play the game thanks to this weekend and I'm now eagerly awaiting release.
The game's not 100% perfect but what's most important for me is that it feels right. It's a really smooth experience to smash through zombie hordes, loot, upgrade and to use skills; it's what I initially feeled the game wouldn't have but it does. Graphics are great too, highly atmospheric; I'd say even more so than the first act of D2. Lots of interaction with the terrain are fun and all the little tidbits of lore here and there are a great way to flesh out the story. Crafting is fun (and a lot better than in D2).
I'm still not sure if I like the skill system that much yet; it looks highly limited to me. But then again we've only seen a handful of skills and runes so far and truth be told, most characters in D2 didn't use more than two skills throughout their virtual life anyway, so D3's system can be considered an upgrade. Though I doubt we'll see exotic variations like melee sorcs or mancers or crossbow druids; then again those were rare for a reason in D2.
As for the classes, I'm happy the Monk - my initial class of choice - is as fun as I hoped he'd be. And except for the Witch Doctor, which is boring as hell, the other classes all have something going for them too.
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the beta felt kinda meh to me. i didn't played d2 but d3 doesn't attract me. i'm still undecided if to buy it or not since i stopped playing sc2.
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On April 21 2012 13:42 skyR wrote:
Turn on elective mode in options.
Oh.. i was just about to make a huge rage post about this.. because i found it so fcking dumb :D
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how did you - PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO DO THAT !!!
please  ?
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you can't they patched it a long time ago, was open for a few days til everyone started sharing it and blizzard noticed
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On April 22 2012 00:25 NotSorry wrote:
you can't they patched it a long time ago, was open for a few days til everyone started sharing it and blizzard noticed
god damn it ... /sobs
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On April 21 2012 21:04 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 19:42 Nilrem wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 21 2012 11:34 pellejohnson wrote:
The absolutely worst part with D3 is the change to the skill system. Did they really have to dumb it down this much? I mean it feels so wrong not really having any choice leveling up, feels like everything is auto, what skills you get, what stats go up and the runes. What happened to actually tweaking your character using different builds? What happened to the amazing discussions whether this extra point in this skill over that other skill was worth it or not.
No sorry but I can't say I'm too pleased with these changes, also the max players = 4 is terrible considering that I have a group of 5 friends who would love to play together but right now one of us have to skip playing every single session... I sort of disagree. Diablo 2 is a game that gives off the sense of allowing an exuberant amount of freedom. Unfortunately, that freedom is only a mask since the game itself is limiting. Take for example the attributes; you can place the points where ever you want. But for you to get gear needed to be at least descent, you have to put X amount of points into Y. It gave off the illusion of being free but in reality, you are constrained by gear and the general fact that you can easily gimp your hero. Once you put the points in, there is no turning back and down the line (end game content, which is the important content), you will end up deleting the hero and starting over again. Since there is a glimmer of "right" way. The same is for the skill system. It gives off the illusion of being free but you are actually restricted, it is more restrictive and linear than the Diablo III system. The reason for this is simple, you do get to choose three choices; good job. Now, you have to put X amount of points in Y skill to get the better skill, otherwise you are weak. Than, you go to the next skill opened up, so on and so forth. You get a choice but you are also forced in the amount of points. If you throw them where ever, than you have completely gimped yourself. Diablo III allows for more freedom for the skills for one good reason. You are not limited to having X skill to use Y. If you want to use X skill and you are that level, go right ahead. You can mix and swap the skills all you want without being tied down by a very linear system. Right in the beginning, and I mean within the first few levels. The Diablo II game has more freedom in terms of skills. But, the more you level, the more freedom you have, the more skills, and less restraint you have. The last point I want to make is in regards to the player amount. There are three portions I wish to address. The first is simple, why does it matter how many friends you have that want to play? I can say I X amount of friends, so it should be increased. The two main reasons is this; the animation of the skills will kill the game. I do not know how much of the game you have seen, but with 4 players alone (and especially with the later skills), the screen is nearly covered with skills. If we had 8 players (as an example), you would not even be able to see what you were attacking. The last point is simply party mechanics. Blizzard really wishes for emphasis to be with parties. Diablo II was a near failure when it came to parties. Most common games you see that had 8 players were Dueling rooms, trading rooms, and Mf runs. The games when people were actually trying to play, the players were either split up or doing entirely different things. There was no need for the players to be together. Even Mf runs were done so for the sake of getting the sweet 8 number, and not the necessity of needing 8 people for dps. Diablo III, because it has less players. There is more emphasis on you the player. Having one person slag behind can be bad, especially with bosses. There is more consequence for not putting in the effort. Especially since the difficulty is easier to balance with the amount of players when there is a maximum of 4. It is easier to make the difficult of the game based on the number of players when there are less to begin with. Anyway yeah, I disagree with your points. The changes have been made to keep the end game content more entertaining and not relying on mechanics that punish you for dumb mistakes. What ? About the stats part : In Diablo 2 you can build you character in really different ways. As example you can build sorceress with max block, or you can neglect the block and go for more vitality... It's entirely up to the player. The game does not force you do one or the other. In Diablo 3 there is no such thing... The game raises your stats instead of you just like in WoW. The skills: This is the same as the stats. You can build your character in many different ways -> Hammerdin, Charger, Zealot, Smiter - these are just 4 of the many variations of the paladin. The player can use his creativity and can mix some of the skills to create hybrid etc. etc. In Diablo 3 there is no such thing again. All players get all the skills, no thinking involved. I played the beta yesterday, and as a long time D2 player I'm pretty disappointed. What makes my character different from the others when the stats system is automated and all the players take the same skills ? Maybe only the items system can bring some diversity, but I'm not sure if it will cut it.
I agree.
The argument of cookie cutter specs and having a correct way to spec, as the person you're responding to claimed, is not valid for Diablo games. In Diablo 2, there were a large variety of creative ways to spec your character, some were not optimal, but many of them more than viable and it's very fun to be able to build your character the way you want and experiment with different builds.
However, as a WoW player, I understand completely why WoW gives you the same core sets of abilities with the exception of spec spells and talents, and why this model is optimal for WoW. WoW is a very competitive game, where players min-max everything for progression raiding and PvP. Therefore, the D2 system will not work, as everyone will just copy the best build and go with it (in fact this is why their changing the talent system in MOP, which I support). Being min-maxed to be absolutely optimal is a part of the competitive nature of WoW.
But Diablo is not this type of game, it's not as competitive as WoW. There isn't a fixation on damage meters like WoW. This is because it's nowhere near as hard as WoW at the high-end. Diablo 2 gives players many systems of customizations and a lot of freedom to build your character the way you want, and this is how Diablo 3 should have been.
WoW has a excellent spell system. But Diablo 3 isn't WoW, and copying this system is a waste of potential and needlessly constraints player creativity and choice.
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On April 21 2012 14:01 Medzo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 12:22 mcmartini wrote:so whats the point in having a hand weapon altogether besides the stats doesn't it impact my skills in anyway? All damage, including spells, is weapon based.
...
That's why my spell damage wasn't increasing...
Oh well, I still beat the whole game with the starter weapon.
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On April 22 2012 00:17 Rizell wrote:Oh.. i was just about to make a huge rage post about this.. because i found it so fcking dumb :D
Yeah, it took me a while to realize that.
But it's still not good enough, there's no way to separate movement from the 2 mouse button spells, without having 3 mouse buttons.
Rebinding the left mouse button to another key will separate it from movement, but now you can't effectively cast that spell since the mouse spells are directional.
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On April 22 2012 00:37 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 21:04 Pr0wler wrote:On April 21 2012 19:42 Nilrem wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 21 2012 11:34 pellejohnson wrote:
The absolutely worst part with D3 is the change to the skill system. Did they really have to dumb it down this much? I mean it feels so wrong not really having any choice leveling up, feels like everything is auto, what skills you get, what stats go up and the runes. What happened to actually tweaking your character using different builds? What happened to the amazing discussions whether this extra point in this skill over that other skill was worth it or not.
No sorry but I can't say I'm too pleased with these changes, also the max players = 4 is terrible considering that I have a group of 5 friends who would love to play together but right now one of us have to skip playing every single session... I sort of disagree. Diablo 2 is a game that gives off the sense of allowing an exuberant amount of freedom. Unfortunately, that freedom is only a mask since the game itself is limiting. Take for example the attributes; you can place the points where ever you want. But for you to get gear needed to be at least descent, you have to put X amount of points into Y. It gave off the illusion of being free but in reality, you are constrained by gear and the general fact that you can easily gimp your hero. Once you put the points in, there is no turning back and down the line (end game content, which is the important content), you will end up deleting the hero and starting over again. Since there is a glimmer of "right" way. The same is for the skill system. It gives off the illusion of being free but you are actually restricted, it is more restrictive and linear than the Diablo III system. The reason for this is simple, you do get to choose three choices; good job. Now, you have to put X amount of points in Y skill to get the better skill, otherwise you are weak. Than, you go to the next skill opened up, so on and so forth. You get a choice but you are also forced in the amount of points. If you throw them where ever, than you have completely gimped yourself. Diablo III allows for more freedom for the skills for one good reason. You are not limited to having X skill to use Y. If you want to use X skill and you are that level, go right ahead. You can mix and swap the skills all you want without being tied down by a very linear system. Right in the beginning, and I mean within the first few levels. The Diablo II game has more freedom in terms of skills. But, the more you level, the more freedom you have, the more skills, and less restraint you have. The last point I want to make is in regards to the player amount. There are three portions I wish to address. The first is simple, why does it matter how many friends you have that want to play? I can say I X amount of friends, so it should be increased. The two main reasons is this; the animation of the skills will kill the game. I do not know how much of the game you have seen, but with 4 players alone (and especially with the later skills), the screen is nearly covered with skills. If we had 8 players (as an example), you would not even be able to see what you were attacking. The last point is simply party mechanics. Blizzard really wishes for emphasis to be with parties. Diablo II was a near failure when it came to parties. Most common games you see that had 8 players were Dueling rooms, trading rooms, and Mf runs. The games when people were actually trying to play, the players were either split up or doing entirely different things. There was no need for the players to be together. Even Mf runs were done so for the sake of getting the sweet 8 number, and not the necessity of needing 8 people for dps. Diablo III, because it has less players. There is more emphasis on you the player. Having one person slag behind can be bad, especially with bosses. There is more consequence for not putting in the effort. Especially since the difficulty is easier to balance with the amount of players when there is a maximum of 4. It is easier to make the difficult of the game based on the number of players when there are less to begin with. Anyway yeah, I disagree with your points. The changes have been made to keep the end game content more entertaining and not relying on mechanics that punish you for dumb mistakes. What ? About the stats part : In Diablo 2 you can build you character in really different ways. As example you can build sorceress with max block, or you can neglect the block and go for more vitality... It's entirely up to the player. The game does not force you do one or the other. In Diablo 3 there is no such thing... The game raises your stats instead of you just like in WoW. The skills: This is the same as the stats. You can build your character in many different ways -> Hammerdin, Charger, Zealot, Smiter - these are just 4 of the many variations of the paladin. The player can use his creativity and can mix some of the skills to create hybrid etc. etc. In Diablo 3 there is no such thing again. All players get all the skills, no thinking involved. I played the beta yesterday, and as a long time D2 player I'm pretty disappointed. What makes my character different from the others when the stats system is automated and all the players take the same skills ? Maybe only the items system can bring some diversity, but I'm not sure if it will cut it. I agree. The argument of cookie cutter specs and having a correct way to spec, as the person you're responding to claimed, is not valid for Diablo games. In Diablo 2, there were a large variety of creative ways to spec your character, some were not optimal, but many of them more than viable and it's very fun to be able to build your character the way you want and experiment with different builds. However, as a WoW player, I understand completely why WoW gives you the same core sets of abilities with the exception of spec spells and talents, and why this model is optimal for WoW. WoW is a very competitive game, where players min-max everything for progression raiding and PvP. Therefore, the D2 system will not work, as everyone will just copy the best build and go with it (in fact this is why their changing the talent system in MOP, which I support). Being min-maxed to be absolutely optimal is a part of the competitive nature of WoW. But Diablo is not this type of game, it's not as competitive as WoW. There isn't a fixation on damage meters like WoW. This is because it's nowhere near as hard as WoW at the high-end. Diablo 2 gives players many systems of customizations and a lot of freedom to build your character the way you want, and this is how Diablo 3 should have been. WoW has a excellent spell system. But Diablo 3 isn't WoW, and copying this system is a waste of potential and needlessly constraints player creativity and choice.
But I really don't see what's so different about diablo 2 and diablo3 in terms of variety.
D2, you have a handful of solid cookie cutter builds, but you could use underused skills and make them work.
D3, you will probably also have a handful of solid cookie cutter skill setups, but you will be able to use underused skill + rune combos and make them work.
The only real differences are
1. D3 doesn't require you to click multiple times on a skill icon to get there
2. If in D3 your build turns out to be completely unviable (or you just plain don't like playing it), you can change your skill/rune setup instead of having to re-roll a new char
I mean, they could change D3 so instead of having to choose which skills/runes you use, you could hotkey any of them but they start at level 1 (where they're worthless) and you're given skill points that you have to allocate in order to make them usable. Then let you respec your skill points in town. The end result would be exactly the same (albeit with a LOT more clicking), but it wouldn't be any better as a game for it.
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man i so want a beta key right now. is there any possibility left to get one?
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On April 22 2012 01:37 HyunA wrote:
man i so want a beta key right now. is there any possibility left to get one?
well its open beta weekend and release is only a few weeks away..
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On April 22 2012 01:09 dmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 00:37 paralleluniverse wrote:On April 21 2012 21:04 Pr0wler wrote:On April 21 2012 19:42 Nilrem wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 21 2012 11:34 pellejohnson wrote:
The absolutely worst part with D3 is the change to the skill system. Did they really have to dumb it down this much? I mean it feels so wrong not really having any choice leveling up, feels like everything is auto, what skills you get, what stats go up and the runes. What happened to actually tweaking your character using different builds? What happened to the amazing discussions whether this extra point in this skill over that other skill was worth it or not.
No sorry but I can't say I'm too pleased with these changes, also the max players = 4 is terrible considering that I have a group of 5 friends who would love to play together but right now one of us have to skip playing every single session... I sort of disagree. Diablo 2 is a game that gives off the sense of allowing an exuberant amount of freedom. Unfortunately, that freedom is only a mask since the game itself is limiting. Take for example the attributes; you can place the points where ever you want. But for you to get gear needed to be at least descent, you have to put X amount of points into Y. It gave off the illusion of being free but in reality, you are constrained by gear and the general fact that you can easily gimp your hero. Once you put the points in, there is no turning back and down the line (end game content, which is the important content), you will end up deleting the hero and starting over again. Since there is a glimmer of "right" way. The same is for the skill system. It gives off the illusion of being free but you are actually restricted, it is more restrictive and linear than the Diablo III system. The reason for this is simple, you do get to choose three choices; good job. Now, you have to put X amount of points in Y skill to get the better skill, otherwise you are weak. Than, you go to the next skill opened up, so on and so forth. You get a choice but you are also forced in the amount of points. If you throw them where ever, than you have completely gimped yourself. Diablo III allows for more freedom for the skills for one good reason. You are not limited to having X skill to use Y. If you want to use X skill and you are that level, go right ahead. You can mix and swap the skills all you want without being tied down by a very linear system. Right in the beginning, and I mean within the first few levels. The Diablo II game has more freedom in terms of skills. But, the more you level, the more freedom you have, the more skills, and less restraint you have. The last point I want to make is in regards to the player amount. There are three portions I wish to address. The first is simple, why does it matter how many friends you have that want to play? I can say I X amount of friends, so it should be increased. The two main reasons is this; the animation of the skills will kill the game. I do not know how much of the game you have seen, but with 4 players alone (and especially with the later skills), the screen is nearly covered with skills. If we had 8 players (as an example), you would not even be able to see what you were attacking. The last point is simply party mechanics. Blizzard really wishes for emphasis to be with parties. Diablo II was a near failure when it came to parties. Most common games you see that had 8 players were Dueling rooms, trading rooms, and Mf runs. The games when people were actually trying to play, the players were either split up or doing entirely different things. There was no need for the players to be together. Even Mf runs were done so for the sake of getting the sweet 8 number, and not the necessity of needing 8 people for dps. Diablo III, because it has less players. There is more emphasis on you the player. Having one person slag behind can be bad, especially with bosses. There is more consequence for not putting in the effort. Especially since the difficulty is easier to balance with the amount of players when there is a maximum of 4. It is easier to make the difficult of the game based on the number of players when there are less to begin with. Anyway yeah, I disagree with your points. The changes have been made to keep the end game content more entertaining and not relying on mechanics that punish you for dumb mistakes. What ? About the stats part : In Diablo 2 you can build you character in really different ways. As example you can build sorceress with max block, or you can neglect the block and go for more vitality... It's entirely up to the player. The game does not force you do one or the other. In Diablo 3 there is no such thing... The game raises your stats instead of you just like in WoW. The skills: This is the same as the stats. You can build your character in many different ways -> Hammerdin, Charger, Zealot, Smiter - these are just 4 of the many variations of the paladin. The player can use his creativity and can mix some of the skills to create hybrid etc. etc. In Diablo 3 there is no such thing again. All players get all the skills, no thinking involved. I played the beta yesterday, and as a long time D2 player I'm pretty disappointed. What makes my character different from the others when the stats system is automated and all the players take the same skills ? Maybe only the items system can bring some diversity, but I'm not sure if it will cut it. I agree. The argument of cookie cutter specs and having a correct way to spec, as the person you're responding to claimed, is not valid for Diablo games. In Diablo 2, there were a large variety of creative ways to spec your character, some were not optimal, but many of them more than viable and it's very fun to be able to build your character the way you want and experiment with different builds. However, as a WoW player, I understand completely why WoW gives you the same core sets of abilities with the exception of spec spells and talents, and why this model is optimal for WoW. WoW is a very competitive game, where players min-max everything for progression raiding and PvP. Therefore, the D2 system will not work, as everyone will just copy the best build and go with it (in fact this is why their changing the talent system in MOP, which I support). Being min-maxed to be absolutely optimal is a part of the competitive nature of WoW. But Diablo is not this type of game, it's not as competitive as WoW. There isn't a fixation on damage meters like WoW. This is because it's nowhere near as hard as WoW at the high-end. Diablo 2 gives players many systems of customizations and a lot of freedom to build your character the way you want, and this is how Diablo 3 should have been. WoW has a excellent spell system. But Diablo 3 isn't WoW, and copying this system is a waste of potential and needlessly constraints player creativity and choice. But I really don't see what's so different about diablo 2 and diablo3 in terms of variety. D2, you have a handful of solid cookie cutter builds, but you could use underused skills and make them work. D3, you will probably also have a handful of solid cookie cutter skill setups, but you will be able to use underused skill + rune combos and make them work. The only real differences are 1. D3 doesn't require you to click multiple times on a skill icon to get there 2. If in D3 your build turns out to be completely unviable (or you just plain don't like playing it), you can change your skill/rune setup instead of having to re-roll a new char I mean, they could change D3 so instead of having to choose which skills/runes you use, you could hotkey any of them but they start at level 1 (where they're worthless) and you're given skill points that you have to allocate in order to make them usable. Then let you respec your skill points in town. The end result would be exactly the same (albeit with a LOT more clicking), but it wouldn't be any better as a game for it.
You can't do anything crazy or unique, and then optimize for your crazy idea. There's no equivalent to a sorc with maxed charged bolts, or throwing barb, etc. You just choose fill exactly 6 spells and runes, further restricted to 2 click spells, and 1 spell for each of some 4 roles, depending on your class, instead of choosing how many skill points to put into each skill, which synergies to get, and how to distribute your stats.
In D3, it's completely binary, you have spell A or you don't, unlike in D2 where you have spell A with 1 point or 10 point or 20 points, with X amount of synergy.
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exactly.... the skill system in D3 seems to provide with possibilities... but in reality it doesnt... the only determining factor that distinguishes you from someone else is equipments. there are no more strategies, tweeking, finding that optimal build or having your own unique build that may not be optimal but works ... being unique is crucial or else it gets dull. D3 doesnt allow that
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On April 22 2012 02:05 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 01:09 dmfg wrote:On April 22 2012 00:37 paralleluniverse wrote:On April 21 2012 21:04 Pr0wler wrote:On April 21 2012 19:42 Nilrem wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 21 2012 11:34 pellejohnson wrote:
The absolutely worst part with D3 is the change to the skill system. Did they really have to dumb it down this much? I mean it feels so wrong not really having any choice leveling up, feels like everything is auto, what skills you get, what stats go up and the runes. What happened to actually tweaking your character using different builds? What happened to the amazing discussions whether this extra point in this skill over that other skill was worth it or not.
No sorry but I can't say I'm too pleased with these changes, also the max players = 4 is terrible considering that I have a group of 5 friends who would love to play together but right now one of us have to skip playing every single session... I sort of disagree. Diablo 2 is a game that gives off the sense of allowing an exuberant amount of freedom. Unfortunately, that freedom is only a mask since the game itself is limiting. Take for example the attributes; you can place the points where ever you want. But for you to get gear needed to be at least descent, you have to put X amount of points into Y. It gave off the illusion of being free but in reality, you are constrained by gear and the general fact that you can easily gimp your hero. Once you put the points in, there is no turning back and down the line (end game content, which is the important content), you will end up deleting the hero and starting over again. Since there is a glimmer of "right" way. The same is for the skill system. It gives off the illusion of being free but you are actually restricted, it is more restrictive and linear than the Diablo III system. The reason for this is simple, you do get to choose three choices; good job. Now, you have to put X amount of points in Y skill to get the better skill, otherwise you are weak. Than, you go to the next skill opened up, so on and so forth. You get a choice but you are also forced in the amount of points. If you throw them where ever, than you have completely gimped yourself. Diablo III allows for more freedom for the skills for one good reason. You are not limited to having X skill to use Y. If you want to use X skill and you are that level, go right ahead. You can mix and swap the skills all you want without being tied down by a very linear system. Right in the beginning, and I mean within the first few levels. The Diablo II game has more freedom in terms of skills. But, the more you level, the more freedom you have, the more skills, and less restraint you have. The last point I want to make is in regards to the player amount. There are three portions I wish to address. The first is simple, why does it matter how many friends you have that want to play? I can say I X amount of friends, so it should be increased. The two main reasons is this; the animation of the skills will kill the game. I do not know how much of the game you have seen, but with 4 players alone (and especially with the later skills), the screen is nearly covered with skills. If we had 8 players (as an example), you would not even be able to see what you were attacking. The last point is simply party mechanics. Blizzard really wishes for emphasis to be with parties. Diablo II was a near failure when it came to parties. Most common games you see that had 8 players were Dueling rooms, trading rooms, and Mf runs. The games when people were actually trying to play, the players were either split up or doing entirely different things. There was no need for the players to be together. Even Mf runs were done so for the sake of getting the sweet 8 number, and not the necessity of needing 8 people for dps. Diablo III, because it has less players. There is more emphasis on you the player. Having one person slag behind can be bad, especially with bosses. There is more consequence for not putting in the effort. Especially since the difficulty is easier to balance with the amount of players when there is a maximum of 4. It is easier to make the difficult of the game based on the number of players when there are less to begin with. Anyway yeah, I disagree with your points. The changes have been made to keep the end game content more entertaining and not relying on mechanics that punish you for dumb mistakes. What ? About the stats part : In Diablo 2 you can build you character in really different ways. As example you can build sorceress with max block, or you can neglect the block and go for more vitality... It's entirely up to the player. The game does not force you do one or the other. In Diablo 3 there is no such thing... The game raises your stats instead of you just like in WoW. The skills: This is the same as the stats. You can build your character in many different ways -> Hammerdin, Charger, Zealot, Smiter - these are just 4 of the many variations of the paladin. The player can use his creativity and can mix some of the skills to create hybrid etc. etc. In Diablo 3 there is no such thing again. All players get all the skills, no thinking involved. I played the beta yesterday, and as a long time D2 player I'm pretty disappointed. What makes my character different from the others when the stats system is automated and all the players take the same skills ? Maybe only the items system can bring some diversity, but I'm not sure if it will cut it. I agree. The argument of cookie cutter specs and having a correct way to spec, as the person you're responding to claimed, is not valid for Diablo games. In Diablo 2, there were a large variety of creative ways to spec your character, some were not optimal, but many of them more than viable and it's very fun to be able to build your character the way you want and experiment with different builds. However, as a WoW player, I understand completely why WoW gives you the same core sets of abilities with the exception of spec spells and talents, and why this model is optimal for WoW. WoW is a very competitive game, where players min-max everything for progression raiding and PvP. Therefore, the D2 system will not work, as everyone will just copy the best build and go with it (in fact this is why their changing the talent system in MOP, which I support). Being min-maxed to be absolutely optimal is a part of the competitive nature of WoW. But Diablo is not this type of game, it's not as competitive as WoW. There isn't a fixation on damage meters like WoW. This is because it's nowhere near as hard as WoW at the high-end. Diablo 2 gives players many systems of customizations and a lot of freedom to build your character the way you want, and this is how Diablo 3 should have been. WoW has a excellent spell system. But Diablo 3 isn't WoW, and copying this system is a waste of potential and needlessly constraints player creativity and choice. But I really don't see what's so different about diablo 2 and diablo3 in terms of variety. D2, you have a handful of solid cookie cutter builds, but you could use underused skills and make them work. D3, you will probably also have a handful of solid cookie cutter skill setups, but you will be able to use underused skill + rune combos and make them work. The only real differences are 1. D3 doesn't require you to click multiple times on a skill icon to get there 2. If in D3 your build turns out to be completely unviable (or you just plain don't like playing it), you can change your skill/rune setup instead of having to re-roll a new char I mean, they could change D3 so instead of having to choose which skills/runes you use, you could hotkey any of them but they start at level 1 (where they're worthless) and you're given skill points that you have to allocate in order to make them usable. Then let you respec your skill points in town. The end result would be exactly the same (albeit with a LOT more clicking), but it wouldn't be any better as a game for it. You can't do anything crazy or unique, and then optimize for your crazy idea. There's no equivalent to a sorc with maxed charged bolts, or throwing barb, etc. You just choose fill exactly 6 spells and runes, further restricted to 2 click spells, and 1 spell for each of some 4 roles, depending on your class, instead of choosing how many skill points to put into each skill, which synergies to get, and how to distribute your stats. In D3, it's completely binary, you have spell A or you don't, unlike in D2 where you have spell A with 1 point or 10 point or 20 points, with X amount of synergy.
But if everyone on the internet says "skill X with rune Y is bad, don't use it" and someone uses it as their main primary spell, building a gearset and playstyle around it, that IS crazy and unique.
It's exactly the same as in D2, when everyone on the internet says "skill X is bad, don't use it" and someone uses it as their primary spell, builds a gearset and playstyle etc.
Plus in D2, every skill that scaled was maxed out. The only skills that weren't maxed were either "1 point wonders" like teleport, where adding more points didn't make the skill better in a tangible way, or diminishing returns skills like Natural resistance/Zeal, where people got to an "optimal" amount and stopped.
That's not a compelling choice. No frozen orb sorc would EVER consider not maxing out orb. No LF javazon would EVER consider not maxing out LF. In the end, all it came down to was 1-2 primary skills getting maxed, then the rest of the points spent in either synergies (which increased 1 dimensionness) and "1 point wonder" skills.
The other problem with the synergy design was that it was balanced around skills being synergised, to the point where many skills were just kinda weak without it. It forced you to min-max (with a few exceptions like WW and FO).
Now they have the opportunity to let the player optimise their play, not their talent build, by allowing you to use skilful play to make the most of your support skills, without sacrificing power in your main skills. IMO this is a massive step forward from D2.
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On April 22 2012 02:46 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
exactly.... the skill system in D3 seems to provide with possibilities... but in reality it doesnt... the only determining factor that distinguishes you from someone else is equipments. there are no more strategies, tweeking, finding that optimal build or having your own unique build that may not be optimal but works ... being unique is crucial or else it gets dull. D3 doesnt allow that
What distinguishes a player from another are the 6 skills you choose : there is your build, those 6 skills (and the 3 passives)
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I find it weird that you can't distribute your attributes as you want, what's Blizzard reasoning behind this ?
Edit : probably already has been discussed, sorry >.<
Edit 2 : NVM I fount the answer on diablowiki, great siteweb !
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The game is okay. There are just some problems that i'm not gonna go int because they have been mentioned numerous times before.
All i can say is that I don't feel any hype or anticipation for the release.I think i wouldn't even care if they pushed back the release by another year.
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On April 22 2012 04:05 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:46 [Crimson]Bason wrote:
exactly.... the skill system in D3 seems to provide with possibilities... but in reality it doesnt... the only determining factor that distinguishes you from someone else is equipments. there are no more strategies, tweeking, finding that optimal build or having your own unique build that may not be optimal but works ... being unique is crucial or else it gets dull. D3 doesnt allow that What distinguishes a player from another are the 6 skills you choose : there is your build, those 6 skills (and the 3 passives)
as I said thats only one level of complexity ... 1 less than D2... D2 you could have 10-12 hotkeys... now its down to 6 and no switching skills in combat. D2 had that level plus stat and skill point attribution.
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EPT
