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On August 01 2011 23:56 aurum510 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2011 23:51 Dfgj wrote:
Cool. I always wanted a way for more players to skip the entire point of the game.
'Don't like, don't use' is not an argument. It would equally justify D3 having ingame cheats. Design choices that encourage the bypassing of the bulk of the game - character development, boggle my mind.
I'm not hugely against the concept of RMT, though. It's always been a way to bypass the grindy, repeat-the-same-area part of the game and get to the 'use your grinded stuff' part, which is generally the actual game content. The problem is that when your game is about the equipment and item collection, suddenly silliness arises. My initial impression is negative as hell, though I guess I should wait to see how it's implemented. Well this is the reason Blizzard is making items have level requirements, rather than attribute requirements. You'd have to play the game a lot to get these "godmode" items, which means you haven't skipped anything.
You had to gain levels to get those attribute requirements in D2. Guess how that one turned out?
Depends how much content Bliz puts into it, anyway. D2 let you pretty much blast through and spend all your time at the end, which made equipment gathering the point of the game. Will D3 remove that as the point and bring a better one, say, challenge, to the table?
Maybe.
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On August 02 2011 00:00 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2011 23:56 aurum510 wrote:On August 01 2011 23:51 Dfgj wrote:
Cool. I always wanted a way for more players to skip the entire point of the game.
'Don't like, don't use' is not an argument. It would equally justify D3 having ingame cheats. Design choices that encourage the bypassing of the bulk of the game - character development, boggle my mind.
I'm not hugely against the concept of RMT, though. It's always been a way to bypass the grindy, repeat-the-same-area part of the game and get to the 'use your grinded stuff' part, which is generally the actual game content. The problem is that when your game is about the equipment and item collection, suddenly silliness arises. My initial impression is negative as hell, though I guess I should wait to see how it's implemented. Well this is the reason Blizzard is making items have level requirements, rather than attribute requirements. You'd have to play the game a lot to get these "godmode" items, which means you haven't skipped anything. You had to gain levels to get those attribute requirements in D2. Guess how that one turned out? Depends how much content Bliz puts into it, anyway. D2 let you pretty much blast through and spend all your time at the end, which made equipment gathering the point of the game. Will D3 remove that as the point and bring a better one, say, challenge, to the table? Maybe.
The attribute system was frustrating to say the least... Realizing your best armor for your Sorceress required that you put a very specific amount of points in STR was pretty much an automatic reason for a Reroll if you skimped out or put too many points.
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Oh wow, I just found something I didn't see originally.
From the Diablofans - Diablo 3 Press Event Visit
Though, I should also mention that they are planning on selling/buying characters at some point in time as well, not at launch. For more information, read the AH overview and FAQ in the sections below.
If this actually happens, then this game will be trash.
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Are some people really so naive that they don't think people already sell items for real world cash? They do, and when they get scammed they call Blizzard. Enough of them call, and Blizzard has to hire additional customer service representatives. These guys don't get paid the minimum wage, you know. What do you guys expect Blizzard to do, tell their customer service reps to hang up the phone? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I wonder how Blizzard will report item sales to the IRS, though. Because they very likely have to.
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On August 02 2011 00:04 Furycrab wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 00:00 Dfgj wrote:On August 01 2011 23:56 aurum510 wrote:On August 01 2011 23:51 Dfgj wrote:
Cool. I always wanted a way for more players to skip the entire point of the game.
'Don't like, don't use' is not an argument. It would equally justify D3 having ingame cheats. Design choices that encourage the bypassing of the bulk of the game - character development, boggle my mind.
I'm not hugely against the concept of RMT, though. It's always been a way to bypass the grindy, repeat-the-same-area part of the game and get to the 'use your grinded stuff' part, which is generally the actual game content. The problem is that when your game is about the equipment and item collection, suddenly silliness arises. My initial impression is negative as hell, though I guess I should wait to see how it's implemented. Well this is the reason Blizzard is making items have level requirements, rather than attribute requirements. You'd have to play the game a lot to get these "godmode" items, which means you haven't skipped anything. You had to gain levels to get those attribute requirements in D2. Guess how that one turned out? Depends how much content Bliz puts into it, anyway. D2 let you pretty much blast through and spend all your time at the end, which made equipment gathering the point of the game. Will D3 remove that as the point and bring a better one, say, challenge, to the table? Maybe. The attribute system was frustrating to say the least... Realizing your best armor for your Sorceress required that you put a very specific amount of points in STR was pretty much an automatic reason for a Reroll if you skimped out or put too many points.
That one goes without saying, adding respecs to D2 was a fantastic choice. All another topic, that.
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Cash AH doesnt suprise me at all and shouldnt suprise anyone who knows about how d2 trading and d2jsp works. This is the only way for blizzard to shut down jsp/3rd person sites and get the money that would otherwise be going there. I personally think it sucks because I loved using jsp and still have like 20k fg that I didnt spend a dime of RL cash for. But I'm not gonna feign outrage or suprise at this move. Fact is there will be bots within 3 months of the game coming out...this much is guaranteed. Items will flood the market either way blizz just wants to get into the action.
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On August 01 2011 23:19 FireBearHero wrote:
I feel like I'm in that South Park episode where Lucas/Spielburg were raping Indiana Jones. Some of these changes are just simply disappointing. I feel like between stat/skill allocation being removed leveling has become greatly trivialized. Sure you still increase in power, but it just doesn't feel right to have nothing to assign when you level. I also am not a huge fan of the theoretical new rune system.
I have not read anything that indicates that skill point allocation would be removed, and in fact I have seen images of skill trees for D3, so on this one point I feel like you're perpetuating an unsubstantiated rumor. (Although it doesn't look like you're doing so on purpose.) I have read several posts from Bashiok on the D3 forums that would seem to suggest you are dead wrong here, such as this one where he confirms that there is no plan for skill synergies: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=16474156292&pageNo=2&sid=3000#25
I feel your pain about stat allocation being removed, but that's honestly the only discouraging news I've heard from this game, and I seriously wish that you people would stop talking shit about a game you've never even played.
I would encourage posters of this thread to look back at some of the things they've posted objectively. Some of you are just whiners, and there's nothing TL can do about it. You will wine about anything and everything.
It doesn't matter what Blizzard does, they could tell you D3 is going to ship with a free penis enlarger and you guys would make posts like: "I did the math, and I'm not sure if size matters or not, clearly this is Blizzard trying to perpetuate myths about penis size so they can collect money from my therapist." One of the posts I read in this thread literally said "All of the new classes are lame." Followed shortly by "I'm going to make a monk so I can slap some demons." I didn't want to quote you buy name because that's an embarrassingly dumb thing to say, but I honestly hope you will read this and make some adjustments to your attitude.
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Why won't people actually read up on the information available rather than go making baseless claims and wild accusations based on just...being dead wrong or not understanding?
READ, FOOL!
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On August 02 2011 00:07 antelope591 wrote:
Cash AH doesnt suprise me at all and shouldnt suprise anyone who knows about how d2 trading and d2jsp works. This is the only way for blizzard to shut down jsp/3rd person sites and get the money that would otherwise be going there. I personally think it sucks because I loved using jsp and still have like 20k fg that I didnt spend a dime of RL cash for. But I'm not gonna feign outrage or suprise at this move. Fact is there will be bots within 3 months of the game coming out...this much is guaranteed. Items will flood the market either way blizz just wants to get into the action.
Blizzard charging listing and transaction fees means there is already plenty of motivation to list on JSP. Maybe Blizzard missed the boat on that, but a financial incentive not to list through official avenues seems counter-intuitive.
Yes, I know they haven't mentioned the exact fee, but it's a fee nonetheless.
Source: DiabloFans.com article
Q: How is the transaction fee determined?
A: A nominal fixed transaction fee will be deducted from the seller for each item listed in the auction house. This fee consists of a fixed charge to list the item, which is assessed whether or not the item is successfully sold, and an additional fixed charge that is assessed only if the item is sold. Because the listing portion of the fee is charged even if the item doesn’t sell, it will be in the seller’s interest to list items he or she believes other players will be interested in, and to do so at a competitive price. Specific details related to the transaction fee for the currency-based auction house will vary by region and will be announced at a later date.
Please note that we plan to waive the listing portion of the fee for a limited number of transactions per account. In other words, for these transactions, the seller will only pay a transaction fee if the item is successfully sold, and that fee will not include the listing charge. We’ll have further details on this as well at a later date.
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Really sad to see what Blizzard has become, I really should have known D3 would have a con to it after WoW. I won't be buying D3, instead opting for Torchlight, I'm not even going to wait and see how they implement it, it's Activision-Blizzard of 2011, we already know how Bobby Kotick works.
Fuck them.
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Okay, this is made out of genuine interest; I'm not actually interested in arguing against the RM AH, but rather just discussion on it.
What are the legal / tax implications of making income from this?
- I know that practically, the IRS probably won't show up for something that small, but it would be nice to know.
Will the players demand third-party oversight or additional information on the system (including statistics and related information)?
- I feel that a lot of power and faith is placed in Blizzard's hands. They have complete control over the randomness of drops, and may change them without letting us know. There is also the possibility of unintended changes affecting the drop rates.
Is Blizzard going to regulate the market?
- It seems like a free market, so it is open to the possibility of players entering the market with large amounts of IRL cash and cornering the price of goods. This most commonly crops up with end-game stuff and common starting stuff (from WoW, 'twink' gear; from EVE, various ship parts), but instead of inflating ingame currency prices, they are inflating real money prices. It may even be possible to manipulate the gold market to push players towards the real money market.
Compensation?
- There's always going to be risk in any market, but what about losses because the market itself makes a mistake? This will be more important for pricier items, but I can reasonably lose small purchases of $1 - $5 if I found out the item was duped or something. Will Blizzard actually refund cash, or simply give us items?
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On August 02 2011 00:12 Fateless wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2011 23:19 FireBearHero wrote:
I feel like I'm in that South Park episode where Lucas/Spielburg were raping Indiana Jones. Some of these changes are just simply disappointing. I feel like between stat/skill allocation being removed leveling has become greatly trivialized. Sure you still increase in power, but it just doesn't feel right to have nothing to assign when you level. I also am not a huge fan of the theoretical new rune system.
I have not read anything that indicates that skill point allocation would be removed, and in fact I have seen images of skill trees for D3, so on this one point I feel like you're perpetuating an unsubstantiated rumor. (Although it doesn't look like you're doing so on purpose.) I have read several posts from Bashiok on the D3 forums that would seem to suggest you are dead wrong here, such as this one where he confirms that there is no plan for skill synergies: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=16474156292&pageNo=2&sid=3000#25I feel your pain about stat allocation being removed, but that's honestly the only discouraging news I've heard from this game, and I seriously wish that you people would stop talking shit about a game you've never even played. I would encourage posters of this thread to look back at some of the things they've posted objectively. Some of you are just whiners, and there's nothing TL can do about it. You will wine about anything and everything. It doesn't matter what Blizzard does, they could tell you D3 is going to ship with a free penis enlarger and you guys would make posts like: "I did the math, and I'm not sure if size matters or not, clearly this is Blizzard trying to perpetuate myths about penis size so they can collect money from my therapist." One of the posts I read in this thread literally said "All of the new classes are lame." Followed shortly by "I'm going to make a monk so I can slap some demons." I didn't want to quote you buy name because that's an embarrassingly dumb thing to say, but I honestly hope you will read this and make some adjustments to your attitude.
From the DiabloFans.com article:
+ Show Spoiler +In addition to the three new items and stash information, we were told that the Skill system has gotten a complete revamp. Instead of 7 active skills, we now only have 6. In addition, the traits system was removed and turned into a "passive skills" section on the skill window, cleaning up the UI quite a lot, and allowing us to choose Skills and "traits" (passive skills) all in one window. That in mind, we can also only have up to 3 passive skills at one time. However, we begin the game with only 2 active skills and no passives. The last four active skill slots can be unlocked at levels 6, 12, 18, and 24, and the three passive skill slots are unlocked at levels 10, 20, and 30. So by the time we complete Normal, you should have unlocked all of the possible skill slots. Now, skill and trait points were also removed. Once you reach a certain level, you unlock X skill and/or X passive that you can swap in and out as you see fit. Again though, you can only have 6 actives and 3 passives at any given time. The reasoning behind this is to remove the Diablo 2 style of thinking, where we save all of our points and dump them into better skills, once we hit the end game. Jay said that they found employees (in the alpha) dumping all their points into say, Magic Missiles, until they unlocked Arcane Orb. They would then respec, and dump all their points into Arcane Orb, until they unlocked the next tier skill. This system didn't really make much sense and allowing us to hot-swap skills/passives whenever we want gives us the ability to "test" the skills without worrying about wasting any points. With skill points gone, skills/traits will scale with your level/gear. For example, a skill like Bash will scale with your weapon damage, whereas something like Disintegrate will scale with level. Yes, big changes! I'm actually a really big fan of the revamping of the skill/trait system. As I said earlier, it really cleans up the UI by consolidating the system into just one window, and the ability to hotswap skills is awesome. It means that I will never have to respec, which in turn means I will never have to have more than one character for the class (unless I want a male/female). This system will allow me to play and test each skill in my build without punishment, which is fine by me.
This paragraph was their explanation of the skill sytem revamp. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it says there isn't skill points anymore. You can choose 6 active/3 passive skills and hot swap them out for different ones. The skills then derive their power from your level/gear instead of skill level.
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On August 02 2011 00:15 mav451 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 00:07 antelope591 wrote:
Cash AH doesnt suprise me at all and shouldnt suprise anyone who knows about how d2 trading and d2jsp works. This is the only way for blizzard to shut down jsp/3rd person sites and get the money that would otherwise be going there. I personally think it sucks because I loved using jsp and still have like 20k fg that I didnt spend a dime of RL cash for. But I'm not gonna feign outrage or suprise at this move. Fact is there will be bots within 3 months of the game coming out...this much is guaranteed. Items will flood the market either way blizz just wants to get into the action. Blizzard charging listing and transaction fees means there is already plenty of motivation to list on JSP. Maybe Blizzard missed the boat on that, but a financial incentive not to list through official avenues seems counter-intuitive. Yes, I know they haven't mentioned the exact fee, but it's a fee nonetheless. Source: DiabloFans.com article Show nested quote +Q: How is the transaction fee determined?
A: A nominal fixed transaction fee will be deducted from the seller for each item listed in the auction house. This fee consists of a fixed charge to list the item, which is assessed whether or not the item is successfully sold, and an additional fixed charge that is assessed only if the item is sold. Because the listing portion of the fee is charged even if the item doesn’t sell, it will be in the seller’s interest to list items he or she believes other players will be interested in, and to do so at a competitive price. Specific details related to the transaction fee for the currency-based auction house will vary by region and will be announced at a later date.
Please note that we plan to waive the listing portion of the fee for a limited number of transactions per account. In other words, for these transactions, the seller will only pay a transaction fee if the item is successfully sold, and that fee will not include the listing charge. We’ll have further details on this as well at a later date.
This may affect things but I dunno...theres a lot more buyers than there are sellers and even with a listing fee there wont be a shortage of listings Im sure. People will much rather buy from blizzard rather than 3rd person so the number of people using jsp will decrease by a lot either way.
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idk about you guys but this is something i've been dreaming of for a long, long time. Blizzard has given us the means to be real treasure hunters and actually profit from it with real money. Seems adventurous to me. Think of it man... exploring dangerous dungeons in the hopes of finding some epic treasure that's worth alot.. man I got nerd chills.
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The part about hot-swapping skills sounds really useful since that removes the need for respec-ing and crazy future-minded planning. I remember being incredibly paranoid about stat/skill placement back in D2 vanilla. Hell, we didn't even get LOD respecs until VERY late.
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On August 02 2011 00:20 SnowK wrote:
Okay, this is made out of genuine interest; I'm not actually interested in arguing against the RM AH, but rather just discussion on it.
What are the legal / tax implications of making income from this?
- I know that practically, the IRS probably won't show up for something that small, but it would be nice to know.
Will the players demand third-party oversight or additional information on the system (including statistics and related information)?
- I feel that a lot of power and faith is placed in Blizzard's hands. They have complete control over the randomness of drops, and may change them without letting us know. There is also the possibility of unintended changes affecting the drop rates.
Is Blizzard going to regulate the market?
- It seems like a free market, so it is open to the possibility of players entering the market with large amounts of IRL cash and cornering the price of goods. This most commonly crops up with end-game stuff and common starting stuff (from WoW, 'twink' gear; from EVE, various ship parts), but instead of inflating ingame currency prices, they are inflating real money prices. It may even be possible to manipulate the gold market to push players towards the real money market.
Compensation?
- There's always going to be risk in any market, but what about losses because the market itself makes a mistake? This will be more important for pricier items, but I can reasonably lose small purchases of $1 - $5 if I found out the item was duped or something. Will Blizzard actually refund cash, or simply give us items?
Its the precedent here that matters, blizzard is legitimizing the concept that virtual items have a real market worth (not a black market worth) that can be easily transferred from one person to another via cash. Its going to depend on how the EULA words some things but assuming that players truly own the items. You'll end needing to report any income typically under hobbies (potentially you could argue it as a small business and be able to write off a lot of of amusing things), really depends on how the irs wants to classify it though it could very easily end up under investment income and subject to capital gains taxes.
These are all conversations the government has actually had before, while its super easy to lie and not put in small change type income from hobbies/side businesses, the nature of this is its all digital and recorded, the irs would simply need to get the records. One of the pros (for them) about calling it investment income is its only a short throw to throw it under say SEC regulators and then the information from blizzard on who made how much and when doesn't require specific court orders but is just naturally an open book for them to peruse.
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Hah, blizzard is taking listing AND selling fees... they're gonna make some crazy bank from this.
At least blizz isn't selling the items themselves, that'd inflate the market
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On August 02 2011 00:05 andrewlt wrote:
Are some people really so naive that they don't think people already sell items for real world cash? They do, and when they get scammed they call Blizzard. Enough of them call, and Blizzard has to hire additional customer service representatives. These guys don't get paid the minimum wage, you know. What do you guys expect Blizzard to do, tell their customer service reps to hang up the phone? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I wonder how Blizzard will report item sales to the IRS, though. Because they very likely have to.
Exactly most of them are unpaid interns who made the wrong choices in college thinking that making video games was going to be something they "wanted" to do without ever thinking about what it really entailed.
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On August 02 2011 00:56 ballasdontcry wrote:
Hah, blizzard is taking listing AND selling fees... they're gonna make some crazy bank from this.
At least blizz isn't selling the items themselves, that'd inflate the market
you get X number of free listings. listing and selling fees are flat amounts.
the questionable big money is in the to be determined Cash Out fees.
thankfully there's no real money AH for Hardcore players. i don't care how much money they can milk from casuals buying softcore gear.
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On August 02 2011 00:13 Cuddle wrote:
Why won't people actually read up on the information available rather than go making baseless claims and wild accusations based on just...being dead wrong or not understanding?
READ, FOOL!
Please elaborate fool
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EPT
