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On June 13 2013 14:05 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 14:00 Brett wrote:On June 13 2013 13:56 Infernal_dream wrote:On June 13 2013 13:50 Brett wrote:On June 13 2013 13:41 Capped wrote:
Oh god the aussie fanboy is back. Wheres your bro? :D The other guy completely ignored my PM outlining all the flaws with FF13, im taking that as a win, would you like me to forward it to you? He probably ignored it because you're stupid? I'm not a fanboy; FF13 was probably the worst FF game they've made (although I never played 14). However it's not bad because of the battle system, it's bad because of the 25475230952692809 reasons that it sucked. One of those 25475230952692809 reasons was the battle system. If I wanted to only use two buttons I'd plug my NES in. If you didn't want to use two buttons, you'd make use of more than X (or A if Xbox?) by pressing down on your d-pad to highlight options other than autobattle. And why would I do that when I can just spam A? Why would I manually chose the best attacks if the game does it for me automatically? And by the way Me scrolling down and selecting them manually is still only two buttons, good point though. I mean seriously. Why would I scroll down and select fire four times when I can hit autobattle once and it automatically does fire four times? The flaw is in that the game does what's best for you automatically with no thought involved. That's a fucking terrible, shitty, horrible combat system. I don't understand how you can defend a combat system that literally requires 0 thought or manual input.
A) Because you're not forced to use it; and B) it's not optimal. Yes, it's there, and if you use it, it makes for a fucking brain-dead process that will get you through the game. But if you just ignore it, use your head and play the damn game yourself, it's actually quite solid. Auto-battle is for the 8-10 year olds who don't have a clue about typical (J)RPG systems. I don't understand how you can criticise a combat system when you've literally avoided using it.
It appears to me that if Square had put auto-battle in the options menu, and left it off by default, then suddenly you wouldn't even be arguing this point. But because it's right there, and you were too lazy to opt out of it, you're criticising the entire battle system without having used it.
E: The developers made it clear at the start of the game that it was designed to allow you to breeze through the storyline and that you can just play the game normally if you want. You can't choose the path of least resistance and then complain about your own choice. I honestly don't even understand why you'd pay for and play the game if you chose auto-battle the whole way through. You may as well have loaded up a LP on Youtube. For free.
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Lol the guys entire arguement is that im stupid and that the game isnt bad because it has an auto-win feature you should have self-imposed restrictions on the game to make it half-decent.
Just rofl. I can play through FF1 through 12 including tactics using self-imposed restrictions too. The different being the games actually enjoyable BEFORE doing that, its not an arguement at all.
Im being a dick because you called me stupid, when in reality...
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You're stupid because your arguments to date have been predominantly comprised of 'lol fanboy' and other inane comments.
Ignoring auto-battle is not self imposed restriction. Using it is a choice that you make for the sake of simplicity. It was not A) mandatory or b) optimal. You are criticising the game for your own choice. Apparently Square should not only have made a dumbed down battle option for kids and casual players, but also should have protected players like you from your own laziness by making it an option that was off by default.
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On June 13 2013 13:56 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 13:50 Brett wrote:On June 13 2013 13:41 Capped wrote:
Oh god the aussie fanboy is back. Wheres your bro? :D The other guy completely ignored my PM outlining all the flaws with FF13, im taking that as a win, would you like me to forward it to you? He probably ignored it because you're stupid? I'm not a fanboy; FF13 was probably the worst FF game they've made (although I never played 14). However it's not bad because of the battle system, it's bad because of the 25475230952692809 reasons that it sucked. One of those 25475230952692809 reasons was the battle system. If I wanted to only use two buttons I'd plug my NES in.
Ironic, considering I only pressed 1 Button for every other Final Fantasy ever made. Set menu mode to Memory or whatever it was called, set every single character to their highest damage moves, and just hold down the OK button.
I never understood why people love the old JRPG combat so much.
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I didn't find old Final Fantasy's to have any more depth in combat than FF13 either, combat wasn't really the issue with FF13.
When I played through the games (6-10) as a kid I could basic attack and heal through most of the content, using the strongest spells when needed. Utility spells were only necessary for a few specific encounters.
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I thought the combat in ff13 was awesome. I didn't use auto battle, that's boring. The rest sucked unfortunately.
Doesn't this FF have the Kingdom Hearts battle system? That would be sweet.
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On June 13 2013 13:41 Capped wrote:
Oh god the aussie fanboy is back. Wheres your bro? :D The other guy completely ignored my PM outlining all the flaws with FF13, im taking that as a win, would you like me to forward it to you?
just came across this. lets go through this pm in detail shall we (just saw it and oh boy its a dooozy)
Your an aggressive little fucker aint ya?
Com/com/com was the most effective way to clear all side-content, spamming between the two same rolesets while using the occasional syn/syn for buffs and Sen/med/med for tanking some giant hit from a boss.
Use libra on any enemy in the game and hit auto-battle, it does exactly what you want it to bar some retarded RAV (probably sazh for main-game) using a mixture of fire/firestrike taking longer to cast and being less effective (they are going to be tuned for mag or atk if your smart.) which rarely happened and is saving time only on animations tbh.
Did you think i was talking about the 16 hour interactive FMV? Im talking about what happens when you complete the game and return to pulse for all the side-content. COM/COM/COM, spam spam spam All all all day day day.
You dont even get access to com/com/com throughout the linear storyline, how can you think im speaking about this? The linear storyline was just as much Buffs -> Libra -> Com/rav/rav -> switch to com/rav/rav ->Occasional heal switch (on bosses, untill you hit pulse, because everythings piss easy.)
no i changed my mind there is no need to strip your pm apart because its just riddled with anger and hate towards the game for whatever reason.
go home kid.
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On June 13 2013 15:50 Vaelone wrote:
I didn't find old Final Fantasy's to have any more depth in combat than FF13 either, combat wasn't really the issue with FF13.
When I played through the games (6-10) as a kid I could basic attack and heal through most of the content, using the strongest spells when needed. Utility spells were only necessary for a few specific encounters.
Yeah that's usually how it is with the main story. It gets extra fun when you do all the optional bosses.
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Why isn't anyone talking about 15 here lmao
neogaf has some decent discussions/info aggregated: gameplay trailer analysis is here.
Have to say the game looks more stylish and plain fun battle-mechanics wise than any other (RPG) game we've seen. Feels like the japanese are really getting ahead in terms of stylish, innovative combat systems - don't see any western developers even trying to compete in that respect, unless witcher3/DA3 really step it up. As great as DA1 was, I don't think I'd ever go explore it just to battle the way I did in FF13/Ni No Kuni/Xenoblade, though that might be Japanese-style bias on my part.
Nomura games have a huge focus on doing cool shit, and that's probably the right direction for RPG systems right now. If they can do more in the action realm then that seems like the natural evolution to me. I do hope someone can step it up and give us an AA-quality turn/command based JRPG in the near future, though.
Regardless it's hard not to be excited: 15 looks on track to deliver in the areas 13 lacked, and possibly set the series on a different path. Maybe it'll even split into another core AAA franchise if it finds great enough success, the way KH did, or Chrono/Xeno in the past? Certainly seems different/unique enough, and would fit the trend they're setting with their extensive exploration of systems/characters in sequels/spinoffs recently.
edit: Well seems like Nomura confirmed the 10/13 treatment at a minimum in a famitsu interview. Here's the key excerpt from siliconera:
Additionally, while Square Enix hinted earlier in the week that Final Fantasy XV may have sequels or future follow-up games that continue the story, Nomura clearly confirms that this will indeed be the case.
Says Nomura: “In the trailer, there was a line that read “A World of the Versus Epic,” which suggests that it will be part of an epic. While Final Fantasy XV will have one climax, as a story, we plan to continue it further.”
This, Nomura says, would make it easier for him and the rest of the team to develop freely without having to worry about the story and contents fitting into just one game.
Rest of their article here. Online stuff is also mentioned, which is interesting. There might be a better source out there, as I stumbled across a complete translation somewhere for Nomura's KH interview (while siliconera did an abbreviated write-up with key points like this article), but it's interesting regardless.
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On June 13 2013 16:00 RagequitBM wrote:
I thought the combat in ff13 was awesome. I didn't use auto battle, that's boring. The rest sucked unfortunately.
Doesn't this FF have the Kingdom Hearts battle system? That would be sweet.
It is a evolved version of KH battle system.
I hope someone updated the tread to Final Fantasy XV.
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The one thing that worries me when I look at the trailer is that the game seems to be moving in the direction of style over substance that SE seems to have been going for since FFX.
I know everyone has their own taste and obviously alot of you guys really enjoyed XIII. But honestly I'd go for a much less graphically beautiful game if it meant I could have a world map and more freedom again.
This whole notion of rpg's with corridor-like structure just takes away so much of the joy of playing for me.
On the bright the combat looks awesome and great Odin the graphics are just jaw droppingly gorgeous 
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On June 14 2013 03:46 CutieBK wrote:The one thing that worries me when I look at the trailer is that the game seems to be moving in the direction of style over substance that SE seems to have been going for since FFX. I know everyone has their own taste and obviously alot of you guys really enjoyed XIII. But honestly I'd go for a much less graphically beautiful game if it meant I could have a world map and more freedom again. This whole notion of rpg's with corridor-like structure just takes away so much of the joy of playing for me. On the bright the combat looks awesome and great Odin the graphics are just jaw droppingly gorgeous
The world map/exploration thing has been a focus since Versus 13 was announced, and this seems to be a rebranding/generation upgrade rather than any significant change in design direction.
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On June 14 2013 03:46 CutieBK wrote:The one thing that worries me when I look at the trailer is that the game seems to be moving in the direction of style over substance that SE seems to have been going for since FFX. I know everyone has their own taste and obviously alot of you guys really enjoyed XIII. But honestly I'd go for a much less graphically beautiful game if it meant I could have a world map and more freedom again. This whole notion of rpg's with corridor-like structure just takes away so much of the joy of playing for me. On the bright the combat looks awesome and great Odin the graphics are just jaw droppingly gorgeous
There will be a world map and more open world freedom.
Nomura said that in his previous interviews.
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Just read more about the game now, realizing my initial thoughts were very misinformed...
Really hope the game is BIG and they go for as much side-content as VII or IX!
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On June 13 2013 15:13 Brett wrote:
You're stupid because your arguments to date have been predominantly comprised of 'lol fanboy' and other inane comments.
Ignoring auto-battle is not self imposed restriction. Using it is a choice that you make for the sake of simplicity. It was not A) mandatory or b) optimal. You are criticising the game for your own choice. Apparently Square should not only have made a dumbed down battle option for kids and casual players, but also should have protected players like you from your own laziness by making it an option that was off by default.
How was it not optimal. If your characters don't magically know the enemies weakness it auto casts 4 different elemental attacks until it finds the weakness, then spams that weakness. That's optimal. No longer do I have to cast fire manually and look at the number to see if it was higher. The game automatically figures it out. I really don't understand how you're not seeing how fucking dumbed down the battle system was.
Here's what optimal battle is, using skills/spells that enemies have a weakness against. Here's what ff13's Auto battle system did, use spells/skills AUTOMATICALLY WITHOUT YOU SELECTING THEM that the enemy is weak against. Yes me going manually into the skills to choose them is a self imposed restriction that shouldn't have to be made because the game is too easy. If the games battle system took any thought at all I would admit it. But it doesn't. There's no having to conserve things because nothing floats over. There's no mana, there's no limit to the amount of times you can cast a spell. The skill trees were linear as all hell and included once again holding down the a button until you run out of crystarium points. Compare that to matching up say materia or only being able to cast cure twice because it's only level 2. I'm not trying to change your mind, i'm really trying to understand how the game had any mechanical depth in the combat system.
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On June 14 2013 04:11 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 15:13 Brett wrote:
You're stupid because your arguments to date have been predominantly comprised of 'lol fanboy' and other inane comments.
Ignoring auto-battle is not self imposed restriction. Using it is a choice that you make for the sake of simplicity. It was not A) mandatory or b) optimal. You are criticising the game for your own choice. Apparently Square should not only have made a dumbed down battle option for kids and casual players, but also should have protected players like you from your own laziness by making it an option that was off by default. How was it not optimal. If your characters don't magically know the enemies weakness it auto casts 4 different elemental attacks until it finds the weakness, then spams that weakness. That's optimal. No longer do I have to cast fire manually and look at the number to see if it was higher. The game automatically figures it out. I really don't understand how you're not seeing how fucking dumbed down the battle system was. Here's what optimal battle is, using skills/spells that enemies have a weakness against. Here's what ff13's Auto battle system did, use spells/skills AUTOMATICALLY WITHOUT YOU SELECTING THEM that the enemy is weak against. Yes me going manually into the skills to choose them is a self imposed restriction that shouldn't have to be made because the game is too easy. If the games battle system took any thought at all I would admit it. But it doesn't. There's no having to conserve things because nothing floats over. There's no mana, there's no limit to the amount of times you can cast a spell. The skill trees were linear as all hell and included once again holding down the a button until you run out of crystarium points. Compare that to matching up say materia or only being able to cast cure twice because it's only level 2. I'm not trying to change your mind, i'm really trying to understand how the game had any mechanical depth in the combat system.
So wait...you're definition of mechanical depth is physically selecting Fire after scanning?
The problem is that you think Final Fantasy ever had a challenging battle system. FF13 just took the same repetitive battle system and made you react every-so-often.
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The most challenging battle system and tough battles would be FFXII.
That game actually need real skill and thinking to win those battles.
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On June 13 2013 15:13 Brett wrote:
You're stupid because your arguments to date have been predominantly comprised of 'lol fanboy' and other inane comments.
Ignoring auto-battle is not self imposed restriction. Using it is a choice that you make for the sake of simplicity. It was not A) mandatory or b) optimal. You are criticising the game for your own choice. Apparently Square should not only have made a dumbed down battle option for kids and casual players, but also should have protected players like you from your own laziness by making it an option that was off by default.
Sorry for derailing FF15 thread, i just need to make one last reply to these aussie dudes, im leaving after this.
Ignoring auto-battle IS a self-imposed restriction. It is there, in the game, you have the option of using it. Choosing not to is self-imposing the restriction on yourself, if you cant see this and you call ME stupid, then well..ok i guess. Just like auto-travel in skyrim, people used the shit out of it even though they disliked it untill a mod came along that removed it, then they added that mod and played happily ever-after.
Temptation is a terrible thing, so is autobattle. Your suggestion of even being able to turn it off, is a damn good one and should have been there. (Labelled "Autowin story-only mode button")
Also, i dont think ive said once that i actually used the auto-battle system to play through the game myself, and i didnt, but having to play-through the game 3x to pulse (Brother-in-laws PS3, then my own broke down and was wiped Q.Q) you get fucked off with it, start spamming auto-battle and realise "Wow, my gametimes dont differ drastically at all and autobattle queues up exactly what i would 95% of the time"
As i said earlier, i refer to end-game sidequesting, which is entirely optimal with COM/COM/COM Ruinga spam (Which yes, happens with autobattle.) after buffs and the very occasional switch to SEN/MED/MED for an uber-boss megahit. So a fight is generally SYN/SYN/SYN start -> COM/COM/COM + COM/COM/COM spam for 2 mins -> SEN/MED/MED for 10 seconds -> COM/COM/COM + COM/COM/COM spam for 2 mins -> Buffs -> Repeat. All this with auto battle.
More things wrong with FF13 -
-Story (I enjoyed it, but everyone else hates on it and its not as strong as previous titles for sure)
-Levelling system (100% linear, no choice even with classes untill pulse because u can max everything with the amount of points u get prior to that)
-Upgrade system, sucked. Hard. you dont change weapons untill well after the end of the game (other then a change at the start - MAYBE) or upgrade them to a better model, you dont get given enough resources to do so, so your forced to farm untold amounts of shit to upgrade them right off the bat for all characters because you constantly switch untill pulse. IF you can acquire the morphing component you need, usually available at Pulse, or after you finish the game. The amount of farming made FF8's draw system look like getting everything for free.
-Soundtrack
FF13-2 actually improved alot of this, there was more reason to have variation in your setups, the levelling system wasnt as linear anymore (big orbs / small orbs planning with classes on one system) but the story took a nosedive, Lightning from l-cie to god, dafuq and the soundtrack is the worst ive ever heard in FF's history including spin-offs, i dont want high-pitched bad voice-girl singing for 80% of the game, tyvm, leona lewis was bad enough.
Brett / TP (TyrantPotato, couldnt resist.) / Aussie fanboys, lets take this to PM's or the 13 thread from here on out, ok? :D
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Real time warping. This game looks so cool.
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On June 14 2013 03:51 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 03:46 CutieBK wrote:The one thing that worries me when I look at the trailer is that the game seems to be moving in the direction of style over substance that SE seems to have been going for since FFX. I know everyone has their own taste and obviously alot of you guys really enjoyed XIII. But honestly I'd go for a much less graphically beautiful game if it meant I could have a world map and more freedom again. This whole notion of rpg's with corridor-like structure just takes away so much of the joy of playing for me. On the bright the combat looks awesome and great Odin the graphics are just jaw droppingly gorgeous There will be a world map and more open world freedom. Nomura said that in his previous interviews.
It seems that gaming in general in its more hardcore way is heading in this direction (open world stuff) so I wouldn't worry too much about future FFs
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EPT
