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Shinshady
Canada1237 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On August 29 2010 12:57 Phrost wrote: Ofcourse everyone should keep in mind that runes/masteries/etc are all subject to your own playstyle. There are no "BEST" rune pages (althought some choices for individual runes are clear winners over others) everything comes down to how you play the champion with the runes you have. This is a legitimate use. It's a warning that you shouldn't go on auto-pilot with runes anymore than you should with item builds - in other words to show adaptability so that your understanding of the game continues to grow. It's a method of exploring new ways of playing rather than an endpoint. There's another use of playstyle that is a red flag though. Coming from mtg I've been trained to disdain it. The decision-making process in that game (and in every game) is deterministic - all else being equal, there's one right choice, period. When people want to dodge out of this, they say some nonsense about their playstyle. This is never a good excuse because in this sense, playstyle refers to a lazy method of analysis. "I do it because it fits my playstyle" is code for "I do it because when I don't know what to do, I just do X." It shows a lack of reflection. | ||
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Jaksiel
United States4130 Posts
On August 29 2010 13:26 UniversalSnip wrote: There's another use of playstyle that is a red flag though. Coming from mtg I've been trained to disdain it. The decision-making process in that game (and in every game) is deterministic - all else being equal, there's one right choice, period. Don't agree with this at all. It's a game of imperfect information and decisions frequently come down to judgment calls. | ||
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
On August 29 2010 11:38 redtooth wrote: breaking news: Reginald joins L0CUST's team. might get really interesting up top now. i remember the drama that went down a couple months ago with locust and aon where locust said he quit the game because of the douchebags at high elo | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
I main veigar, blitz, cho and people give me so much shit about them being bad heros... | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On August 29 2010 13:36 Jaksiel wrote: Don't agree with this at all. It's a game of imperfect information and decisions frequently come down to judgment calls. It's not always possible to figure out what that choice is in a realistic timeframe, but it's important to acknowledge that there is one, and that you should always be reaching for it. A big part of improving is moving out of your comfort zone and pushing back the boundaries of what is and is not capable of being objectively decided. | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On August 29 2010 13:43 shawster wrote: regi probably isn't the "douchebag" at high Elo. i personally find Regi, Finkill, Burbs, and the gang to be absolutely hilarious.i remember the drama that went down a couple months ago with locust and aon where locust said he quit the game because of the douchebags at high elo | ||
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Kultcher
United States150 Posts
On August 29 2010 13:52 redtooth wrote: regi probably isn't the "douchebag" at high Elo. i personally find Regi, Finkill, Burbs, and the gang to be absolutely hilarious. "Hilarious" doesn't necessarily imply "not a douchebag." Some people are funny precisely because they are douches. However those people are often only funny when viewed from afar; when you actually have to deal with their bullshit or are the target of it, it's a lot less funny. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
On August 29 2010 13:48 UniversalSnip wrote: It's not always possible to figure out what that choice is in a realistic timeframe, but it's important to acknowledge that there is one, and that you should always be reaching for it. A big part of improving is moving out of your comfort zone and pushing back the boundaries of what is and is not capable of being objectively decided. Nothing like MTG to give an example of what proper decision making is. It's something that hotshot shows well. Though his individual skill isn't at the Flash level, his decision making is very high, and multitasking (champion awareness, minion awareness, map awareness). Sometimes, the best answer is to do nothing. | ||
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
On August 29 2010 13:52 redtooth wrote: regi probably isn't the "douchebag" at high Elo. i personally find Regi, Finkill, Burbs, and the gang to be absolutely hilarious. it was locusts team vs aon i was pretty sure but i actually enjoy solomid stream more then clgaming, too bad they never stream i remember once on solomid stream reginald yelled at full fucking volume against some dude because he didn't teleport like he asked to, he literally went crazy nerd rage. it was the most hilarious/scariest thing ever. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
So there actually is play styles.. it's a decision making process.. some people might go for the throat, cause they know if they wait and keep leaving counters up, there opponent can draw a critical mass of burn... some might play it safe and leave counters up and attack for 2 each turn.. how do you know the 4 cards in there hand are dead? How do you know they are actually 4 chars? Also when i played, i either played a pretty safe game with control, or played long attrition wars with my opponents, with something like control or bw tokens(yay my only regionals win). The longer the game goes on the more mistakes lesser players will make, the more chance you have with winning. That's what's funny about low elo, cause nobody ends the game when they could, or make the right decisions, they will then eventually over extend themselves, and get aced, or just let you farm up, and most of the time in that case, you have better late game chars and just roll over someone. | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On August 29 2010 13:58 Kultcher wrote: no, i'm pretty sure that's not the case here. first off, i actually had to deal with reginald. secondly, there are notable other douchebags at high Elo. on a side note, L0CUST is one of the more mannered people at high Elo. if i had to choose one of them to be my son's godfather though, it'd be TreeEskimo. kid's the nicest person you'll meet in LoL."Hilarious" doesn't necessarily imply "not a douchebag." Some people are funny precisely because they are douches. However those people are often only funny when viewed from afar; when you actually have to deal with their bullshit or are the target of it, it's a lot less funny. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
On August 29 2010 14:20 BraveGhost wrote: There is a ton of reasons why that statement is wrong.. sure there is one best move, but sometimes that best move might be really risky if say they are holding something you don't know about... Magic is a game where you don't always know exactly what your opponent's up to... but you can usually have a pretty good idea if you know what deck he's playing... so you have to consider all the variables before making your move.. So there actually is play styles.. it's a decision making process.. some people might go for the throat, cause they know if they wait and keep leaving counters up, there opponent can draw a critical mass of burn... some might play it safe and leave counters up and attack for 2 each turn.. how do you know the 4 cards in there hand are dead? How do you know they are actually 4 chars? Also when i played, i either played a pretty safe game with control, or played long attrition wars with my opponents, with something like control or bw tokens(yay my only regionals win). The longer the game goes on the more mistakes lesser players will make, the more chance you have with winning. That's what's funny about low elo, cause nobody ends the game when they could, or make the right decisions, they will then eventually over extend themselves, and get aced, or just let you farm up, and most of the time in that case, you have better late game chars and just roll over someone. For example do you hold that counterspell in your hand for the burn spell aimed at your head when he has nothing on his board and no cards in hand? When decisions come down to things like "will he/I topdeck" there's not one "right" decision because neither of you knows exactly wtf is going to happen. It's the same way with LoL, you can't possibly keep track of all of these things that should influence your decision and sometimes you just straight up will never know. For example, SHOULD Ashe shoot that ECA cross-map to try and get a double kill or should she save it for the Garen that MIGHT tower dive her in the next minute? [edit] And that's where things like "playstyle" make the difference. [/edit] | ||
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Kultcher
United States150 Posts
On August 29 2010 14:43 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: For example do you hold that counterspell in your hand for the burn spell aimed at your head when he has nothing on his board and no cards in hand? When decisions come down to things like "will he/I topdeck" there's not one "right" decision because neither of you knows exactly wtf is going to happen. It's the same way with LoL, you can't possibly keep track of all of these things that should influence your decision and sometimes you just straight up will never know. For example, SHOULD Ashe shoot that ECA cross-map to try and get a double kill or should she save it for the Garen that MIGHT tower dive her in the next minute? [edit] And that's where things like "playstyle" make the difference. [/edit] You can get into a semantic argument here. There is definitely a correct decision at all times in both Magic and LoL, it's just that in many cases there is absolutely no way to know what that decision is. If you have infinite knowledge (including knowing the plays that your opponent(s) will make) then you can figure out the right decision 100% of the time. Since no one actually has that knowledge, it comes down to intuition and being able to read a situation. The best players are the ones that know as much about their opponents capabilities and options as they can and consistently anticipate what their opponents are going to do. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Gold count, item count, hard counters, soft counters, positioning, individual player skill for the respective heroes, creep position (ie. if a creep wave is pushing towards a tower hard), amount of actual map knowledge (via wards/clair/etc.). If you were to give me a big map of any moment in a game you wouldn't get "one" correct answer because so many things build into other things. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On August 29 2010 14:43 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: For example do you hold that counterspell in your hand for the burn spell aimed at your head when he has nothing on his board and no cards in hand? When decisions come down to things like "will he/I topdeck" there's not one "right" decision because neither of you knows exactly wtf is going to happen. It's called odds, dude. You're confusing 'the right decision' with 'the one that pays off 100% of the time.' Often the right decision will only be fractionally better than an inferior option. Very often the right decision will lose you the game on the spot. There is a correct balance of risk/reward. 'The optimal decision' can be abstract, but it's always there, even if you couldn't figure it out. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On August 29 2010 14:50 Southlight wrote: There're too many variables in this game to make the "right" choice because it's very debatable if there is one. Whereas in M:tG you had the composition of deck (usually fairly recognizable), the hands of both players, the playing field (mana, creatures in play, etc.), graveyard, and to an extent removed cards (and in tourney rounds the sideboard), all of which may seem numerous in total but is actually fairly predictable (aside from the random factor of draw). Gold count, item count, hard counters, soft counters, positioning, individual player skill for the respective heroes, creep position (ie. if a creep wave is pushing towards a tower hard), amount of actual map knowledge (via wards/clair/etc.). If you were to give me a big map of any moment in a game you wouldn't get "one" correct answer because so many things build into other things. speaking of which, i was playing ezreal earlier on hopped onto this pantheon. I got first blood, but creeps killed me when i got back, all my creeps pushed to his tower, giving him level 5 while im at level 2 he proceeded to snowball 7-0 while im farming mid trying to catch up in levels while my allies die left and right + Show Spoiler [for smash] + we won anyways <3 | ||
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mrgerry
United States1508 Posts
 Insulting burbs mistakes never gets old | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
Playstyle is the choices, small they are, that culminate over the course of a game to the conclusion. If anything, playstyle hinders you from making the best decision. | ||
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