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On August 03 2010 03:47 Mogwai wrote:
it's not really a serious question, I mean, catalyst barely changes anything for his zoning ability anyway. but I seriously can't remember the last time a veigar did anything that got me even slightly concerned for my safety during laning. which, you know, makes me zone him hard because I play pricks like Pantheon and Annie and Xin etc. who can burst the fuck out of people.
usually its the other guy in the lane taking advantage of the zone veigar's stun sets up, picking the right lane partner is necessary for veigar to farm properly, personally I dont think veigar should mid, but it depends on the player.
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Oddly enough when I Kass vs Vlad I have trouble until level 3, then it becomes a roflstomp. Man, never take Vlad against Kassadin, hahah.
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Kassadin is unbelievably lame to solo against btw. Why the heck does Q have like 54315 range -_-
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Its range is actually matched by the majority of spells, I just find most people don't have the same reaction speed as I do. Like someone will move up to last hit a creep, and I nail them with Q, well instead of backing off, why don't you move forward as I do that, so you get the last hit AND a counter-shot? But people don't, they react too slowly or too stupidly after the 10th time I do this and by then it's far too late. You know, standard ranged vs ranged weaving. People are astonishingly bad at this even at higher levels of play.
Edit:
I mean lest you forget it's got a 9 second cooldown and Kassadin is a melee-range hero, once I cast Q there's nothing I can really do to you (except for E, but E will usually be weak if I'm using Q to harass). It's mind-boggling how many people try to play so finesse-y against me and instead of resigning themselves to taking the inevitable Q and countering me with multiple hits they try to run away and let me get a free Q. *shrugs*
Edit2:
The other funny complaint I get is that Q does too much damage... actually it does almost the same as Veigar's Q and Annie's Q. Just... a tiny bit more, I think. At least a tiny bit more than Veigar, should be the same as Annie IIRC.
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On August 03 2010 04:12 Iplaythings wrote:
Allright, what the fuck is catalyst ashe supposed to do vs vlad on mid? I could keep him out of nuke range with volley
but at lvl 6 he just killed me at tower despite i arrowed him in tower (who shot at him).
I felt like I was getting outchamped rather than outplayed >_>
Tips ? :S
Catalyst is the issue. It's an extremely overrated first item on a lot of characters. Just get a fort pot or long sword and get a quick brutalizer so that you can actually hit him for reasonable chunks of life. just maintain proper spacing and plink away at him.
On August 03 2010 04:19 Shikyo wrote:
Kassadin is unbelievably lame to solo against btw. Why the heck does Q have like 54315 range -_-
The biggest pain in the ass with kass is that completely imba fucking passive. 15% less damage from abilities, WTF!?!?!!?
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On August 03 2010 04:23 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 04:19 Shikyo wrote:
Kassadin is unbelievably lame to solo against btw. Why the heck does Q have like 54315 range -_- The biggest pain in the ass with kass is that completely imba fucking passive. 15% less damage from abilities, WTF!?!?!!?
HEY! HEY! According to the majority of idiots on lolforums it's a severely underpowered passive because he doesn't need attack speed, mmkay?
Edit:
Also can you imagine Kassadin counterpicking against mass AP damage and running the defensive mastery + getting that new 10% reduc MR item? lolol invincikass incoming? :p
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Is his attack speed temporary or is it a permanent gain?
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On August 03 2010 04:14 Southlight wrote:
I haven't played Ashe in forever, but I'm wondering if you don't simply out dps/range him early on? Especially if you open Fort x5 (or Boot x3) and just gun after him, you can ruin his early game and ride it to a lane advantage :d That'd be how I'd play that, personally.
I outrange him, (with volley) all the time, but it doesnt matter if i burn all my mana on volleys since he will just drain from the creeps otherwise and ignore me then.
Ive no idea how to play fort ashe, and I am waay more confident with catalyst ashe even though fort ashe might be better.
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On August 03 2010 04:25 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 04:23 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2010 04:19 Shikyo wrote:
Kassadin is unbelievably lame to solo against btw. Why the heck does Q have like 54315 range -_- The biggest pain in the ass with kass is that completely imba fucking passive. 15% less damage from abilities, WTF!?!?!!? Edit: Also can you imagine Kassadin counterpicking against mass AP damage and running the defensive mastery + getting that new 10% reduc MR item? lolol invincikass incoming? :p
uhg, it's so gay. I mean, I think the thing that pisses me off the most about it is that it's all ability damage, not just magic damage. it was basically making my old Panth hit like the new Panth whenever I was matched against him. No wonder I found that matchup such a nightmare. God, I still don't think I can think of any REAL Kassadin counters, he just seems so strong across the board  .
EDIT: ^ to the above post, you gotta be willing to switch on that =\. I mean, catalyst Ashe just tickles her opponents, you're really not going to be able to win vs. an attrition king like Vlad with that.
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ugh vlads are so fucking annoying. i mean hes far from OP, but he has alot of HP, really short CD harassment + heal, and the stupid slow with a couple nukes. in laning hes really hard to harass. and in teamfights there are always more pressing people to focus, but hes always pissing me off that i kinda want to focus him, except he has mass HP. zzz.
edit*
uta how do you deal with vlad as kass?
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On August 03 2010 04:35 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 04:14 Southlight wrote:
I haven't played Ashe in forever, but I'm wondering if you don't simply out dps/range him early on? Especially if you open Fort x5 (or Boot x3) and just gun after him, you can ruin his early game and ride it to a lane advantage :d That'd be how I'd play that, personally. I outrange him, (with volley) all the time, but it doesnt matter if i burn all my mana on volleys since he will just drain from the creeps otherwise and ignore me then. Ive no idea how to play fort ashe, and I am waay more confident with catalyst ashe even though fort ashe might be better.
I meant her regular attacks should outrange Vlad, IIRC. Against Master of LoL's Vlad last night, and he was trying really hard, our spells were equally ranged, so I did a lot of miniscule pixel feints to force him to whiff on that one AoE spell right when it looked like I'd enter range, and then pounded him with Q because that spellcast freeze was long enough for me to move back into range, before turning back around and out of range of that target spell.
I believe Ashe's regular attack barely outranges Kassadin's Q (which is why Boot-first Ashe is pretty annoying to play against, but that's when I start abusing the hit-her-whenever-she-last-hits technique) so she should "barely outrange" Vlad... which goes back my rant about bad range vs range players. If you last hit, and he comes to harass you, then you should land several hits on him, and if he's gonna try to turn then you should animation-cancel forward to catch him at least once as he backs off. That sort of thing.
Edit:
Bluntly speaking, my Q > all the damage/heals he did. It's pretty one-sided. Early-on if they try really hard they can trade blows with you using that double nuke + heal but you can circumvent that by forcing them to whiff, and by level 4-5 you just Q them to death pretty handily, there's not much they can do about it.
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On August 03 2010 04:41 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 04:35 Iplaythings wrote:On August 03 2010 04:14 Southlight wrote:
I haven't played Ashe in forever, but I'm wondering if you don't simply out dps/range him early on? Especially if you open Fort x5 (or Boot x3) and just gun after him, you can ruin his early game and ride it to a lane advantage :d That'd be how I'd play that, personally. I outrange him, (with volley) all the time, but it doesnt matter if i burn all my mana on volleys since he will just drain from the creeps otherwise and ignore me then. Ive no idea how to play fort ashe, and I am waay more confident with catalyst ashe even though fort ashe might be better. I meant her regular attacks should outrange Vlad, IIRC. Against Master of LoL's Vlad last night, and he was trying really hard, our spells were equally ranged, so I did a lot of miniscule pixel feints to force him to whiff on that one AoE spell right when it looked like I'd enter range, and then pounded him with Q because that spellcast freeze was long enough for me to move back into range, before turning back around and out of range of that target spell. I believe Ashe's regular attack barely outranges Kassadin's Q (which is why Boot-first Ashe is pretty annoying to play against, but that's when I start abusing the hit-her-whenever-she-last-hits technique) so she should "barely outrange" Vlad... which goes back my rant about bad range vs range players. If you last hit, and he comes to harass you, then you should land several hits on him, and if he's gonna try to turn then you should animation-cancel forward to catch him at least once as he backs off. That sort of thing.
yea, you're right, people fucking suck at spacing, it's sorta embarrassing, lol. like, I love when ashe hits a creep with autoattack and then I stun her with a fireball and then cone her for like 300-400 burst. Was it worth the 20 gold you stupid whore!? :p
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On August 03 2010 04:35 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 04:25 Southlight wrote:On August 03 2010 04:23 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2010 04:19 Shikyo wrote:
Kassadin is unbelievably lame to solo against btw. Why the heck does Q have like 54315 range -_- The biggest pain in the ass with kass is that completely imba fucking passive. 15% less damage from abilities, WTF!?!?!!? Edit: Also can you imagine Kassadin counterpicking against mass AP damage and running the defensive mastery + getting that new 10% reduc MR item? lolol invincikass incoming? :p uhg, it's so gay. I mean, I think the thing that pisses me off the most about it is that it's all ability damage, not just magic damage. it was basically making my old Panth hit like the new Panth whenever I was matched against him. No wonder I found that matchup such a nightmare. God, I still don't think I can think of any REAL Kassadin counters, he just seems so strong across the board . EDIT: ^ to the above post, you gotta be willing to switch on that =\. I mean, catalyst Ashe just tickles her opponents, you're really not going to be able to win vs. an attrition king like Vlad with that.
Kk, was somewhat prepared for that, just wanted to ask the proz 
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It's funny whenever I used to lane against Kassadin as GP I'd just do the thing you mention and I'd just trade shot for shot with him whenever I could. Kass doesn't win versus that. GP Q does about the same damage but it can crit (10% chance w/o items) and I have a self heal.
If either has a healer though it really doesn't matter and the healer is going to win it.
This makes me wanna play GP again haha.
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On August 03 2010 04:35 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 04:14 Southlight wrote:
I haven't played Ashe in forever, but I'm wondering if you don't simply out dps/range him early on? Especially if you open Fort x5 (or Boot x3) and just gun after him, you can ruin his early game and ride it to a lane advantage :d That'd be how I'd play that, personally. I outrange him, (with volley) all the time, but it doesnt matter if i burn all my mana on volleys since he will just drain from the creeps otherwise and ignore me then. Ive no idea how to play fort ashe, and I am waay more confident with catalyst ashe even though fort ashe might be better.
dont play catalyst ashe >.>
srsly, i had a friend do catalyst ashe for months, then when he switched to fort potx5 (or boots x3) -> bfsword -> infinity edge (some ppl do thirster here its preference), then stack thirsters and banshees for the finisher, he started winning a lot more. Ashe doesnt need hp, thats what the beefcakes are supposed to do, stand in front and be a meatshield for ashe as she shoots gobs of health away from the enemies, she is dps, and catalyst honestly isnt good enough for her to delay bfsword items.
edit: also ashe easily has the farm capacity and lanestaying power to do this, so thats not really an issue
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On August 03 2010 04:48 Chrispy wrote:
It's funny whenever I used to lane against Kassadin as GP I'd just do the thing you mention and I'd just trade shot for shot with him whenever I could. Kass doesn't win versus that. GP Q does about the same damage but it can crit (10% chance w/o items) and I have a self heal.
If either has a healer though it really doesn't matter and the healer is going to win it.
This makes me wanna play GP again haha.
Go for it :o
The big thing against 1vGP isn't so much the Q trade (Kass with SoS can win that) but the denied exp makes him too underleveled to compete for long. That's sorta the power of GP though, so what can you do. In a 2vGP or 2v1+GP I'll almost always pummel the GP though.
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On August 03 2010 04:50 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 04:48 Chrispy wrote:
It's funny whenever I used to lane against Kassadin as GP I'd just do the thing you mention and I'd just trade shot for shot with him whenever I could. Kass doesn't win versus that. GP Q does about the same damage but it can crit (10% chance w/o items) and I have a self heal.
If either has a healer though it really doesn't matter and the healer is going to win it.
This makes me wanna play GP again haha. Go for it :o The big thing against 1vGP isn't so much the Q trade (Kass with SoS can win that) but the denied exp makes him too underleveled to compete for long. That's sorta the power of GP though, so what can you do. In a 2vGP or 2v1+GP I'll almost always pummel the GP though.
unless its denyplank + soraka, in which case ur screwed 
edit: srsly tho, how do u beat that, ive never come across it, but we do it allll the time and it hasnt ever lost a lane yet, inevitably @ like the 15 min mark we hear gp gets a double kill! since the enemy is like 2-3 lvls under them
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On August 03 2010 04:48 Chrispy wrote:
It's funny whenever I used to lane against Kassadin as GP I'd just do the thing you mention and I'd just trade shot for shot with him whenever I could. Kass doesn't win versus that. GP Q does about the same damage but it can crit (10% chance w/o items) and I have a self heal.
If either has a healer though it really doesn't matter and the healer is going to win it.
This makes me wanna play GP again haha.
you should play GP again. You were easily the best GP I had to play against, and it really wasn't by a small margin either :p. He's such a prick on 1v2 too... ugh
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You have to have a strong-enough early-game hero to hold that off, because the real fight starts at level 1/2. If you can hold off the GP's spam at level 1/2 and stick around long enough to hit 3+ you'll start staying in it. Most people I see just wuss out and run, though, or are playing a weak 1v2 hero. As for 2v2 it's a lot easier because GP/Soraka don't have enough firepower.
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EPT
