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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 03 2010 03:05 Mogwai wrote: Isn't that what Veigar is meant to do though? I mean, he's a nuker, which you know, is all about burst, not the next 60 seconds after dropping your burst. Let's just say, no. Another huge problem with DFG is that after your stun -> dark matter combo, if you do it near the max range, it's actually impossible to DFG in time for it to hit before dark matter. Something you might not have thought about. DM takes them to like half hp and if DFG hits at that point it's crap. You're all talking about the ideal situation of them being full hp and you somehow getting within like 600 range of them and STILL being able to do the whole combo. | ||
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Danzepol
United States211 Posts
On August 03 2010 03:07 Shikyo wrote: Let's just say, no. Another huge problem with DFG is that after your stun -> dark matter combo, if you do it near the max range, it's actually impossible to DFG in time for it to hit before dark matter. Something you might not have thought about. DM takes them to like half hp and if DFG hits at that point it's crap. You're all talking about the ideal situation of them being full hp and you somehow getting within like 600 range of them and STILL being able to do the whole combo. but that IS veigars purpose....bursting fools. he is not tank, if you need to build a GA before another huge nuke you're doing it wrong. i understand building GA as a luxury item, but that wont help much in a fight... | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 03 2010 03:16 Danzepol wrote: but that IS veigars purpose....bursting fools. he is not tank, if you need to build a GA before another huge nuke you're doing it wrong. i understand building GA as a luxury item, but that wont help much in a fight... No you don't get it, he has so much burst anyway that going for survivability is a good thing, you don't need to overkill. If you can oneshot even building as a semi-tank, why overkill? Lategame he'll practically have a 4s cd ultimate so staying in there for a long time is beneficial. After you get the Rylais you can even semi-permaslow people. GA would be the final item pretty much, I'd get it over DFG anytime. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
but who cares about caster huh? banshee is imba! | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 03 2010 03:22 Southlight wrote: Explain to me how you one-shot with a 260+.6 + 250+1+1 burst (the latter being on 130 second cd) at level 9. I'm not following. I very much wish I could one-shot people with my 300+0.6 + 200+0.7 burst at level 9 on Kassadin. Man that would be godly. And mine even cools down 14 times faster! Why would Veigar be trying to one-shot burst at lvl 9? He should be farming. In either case, at that point he doesn't need to because he has a stun and he can get about 3 Qs off during a gank, with some teammate support you get a kill. You won't have a DFG at lvl 9 anyway. EDIT: Something more about Veigar, after lvl 9 and after you go back for your Catalyst, you can zone them pretty hard with a 4s cd 250 damage nuke. If they don't run after about 2 nukes, you can then proceed to burst them to death. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On August 03 2010 03:24 Shikyo wrote: Why would Veigar be trying to one-shot burst at lvl 9? He should be farming. In either case, at that point he doesn't need to because he has a stun and he can get about 3 Qs off during a gank, with some teammate support you get a kill. You won't have a DFG at lvl 9 anyway. EDIT: Something more about Veigar, after lvl 9 and after you go back for your Catalyst, you can zone them pretty hard with a 4s cd 250 damage nuke. If they don't run after about 2 nukes, you can then proceed to burst them to death. how is veigar going to have enough money for catalyst when I've been zoning him off of creeps for his first 9 levels? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 03 2010 03:35 Mogwai wrote: how is veigar going to have enough money for catalyst when I've been zoning him off of creeps for his first 9 levels? I have no idea, that's never happened to me on any champion in the 550ish games I've played, no experience if that was a serious question, he'll have the money for a catalyst at about 16 minutes with 0 minion kills, reduce a minute for every 5 minion kills. Needs about 30 for a lvl 9 catalyst. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
edit: i think what im saying is that if ur comparing something you do vs something you theorycraft is awful, it might be worth a shot to try it if more than one person is suggesting it. If you have tried a dfg build, however, ignore this post | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On August 03 2010 03:47 Mogwai wrote: it's not really a serious question, I mean, catalyst barely changes anything for his zoning ability anyway. but I seriously can't remember the last time a veigar did anything that got me even slightly concerned for my safety during laning. which, you know, makes me zone him hard because I play pricks like Pantheon and Annie and Xin etc. who can burst the fuck out of people. lol, once I got RoA on Kass not even Aaerox' Veigar with DFG worried me, and that fucker insta-gibbed me twice up to that point. If he'd opened Cata he would have never killed me through my Cata. The hero just sucks compared to a certifiably strong nuker. And yes I've seen and played against LoCicero's Veigar. It's just not an impressive hero considering that a fed top-elo Veigar couldn't kill Kassadin. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On August 03 2010 04:03 Brees wrote: i was good with old veigar, new one sucks Old Veigar was niche but a NASTY counter to casters. Now? lol. I mean jeez I'd have 5 levels on Veigar and two more items and he'd still two-shot me, I miss the old Veigar. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 03 2010 03:48 barbsq wrote: Obligatory question, have u tried dfg shikyo? I kno ur a big veigar player (and that gives u alot of credibility in this argument), but just wondering if you've tried it. I got salted awhile back saying atkspeed tf is for tools and is only useful for last hitting, but ended up trying (i think mogwai's build that he took from some1 else), and while i still didnt find it super amazing, it was good enough that i dont discount it as 100% useless anymore. edit: i think what im saying is that if ur comparing something you do vs something you theorycraft is awful, it might be worth a shot to try it if more than one person is suggesting it. If you have tried a dfg build, however, ignore this post Not a big Veigar player actually Yeah twice I've tried DFG, you just keep dying instantly without any survivability. It's like when I used to rush Archangel, nice dmg but you keep dying and it sucks. | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
but at lvl 6 he just killed me at tower despite i arrowed him in tower (who shot at him). I felt like I was getting outchamped rather than outplayed >_> Tips ? :S | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
But the tips would be to stay back and lasthit and play super passively since it's useless to harrass. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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