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League of Legends [New forum, check OP!] - Page 245

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Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
July 09 2010 19:50 GMT
#4881
i used to get aegis on pantheon for the late game triple whammy of HP/MR/Armor, but for late game, you're better off just going for Guardian Angel on Panth and I think the same would be true on WW.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
July 09 2010 20:19 GMT
#4882
Echoing a lot of what other people are saying. Aegis you want to rush as your first or second item. Ideal on tanks. Definitely not a good idea to rush Aegis on WW.

Late game, Aegis's worth dwindles a lot. You definitely want to rush Bloodrazor on WW (and Shaco to a degree). Late game defensive item, I'd go GA and/or Banshee.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 20:47:44
July 09 2010 20:41 GMT
#4883
Soul shroud is pretty OP imo. With the CDR and extra mp/5 , not to mention nearly everyone needs some HP, its nothing but an increase in dps for every siege/ poking harass team these days. I think its lot better than aegis imo, unless ur facing an AoE kinda team. like fiddle amumu kat ETC.

Before a game starts i usually ask everyone if they can grab a soul shroud or a starks. Generally everyone is pretty very receptive , and im pretty sure it increases my winrate a bit. Directing people to dragon and stopping junglers with wards is still the best though. Generally pubs will never ever put wards, but if u ward a jungler and ping it, usually people will head over there and stop him.

I feel playing a character that gives u the most map control, and punishing the other team for their mistakes via ganks is the best to solo queue and carry pubs with, so far that is Annie for me, or shaco/amumu if my team needs it but im thinking of picking up pantheon O_o
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
July 09 2010 20:54 GMT
#4884
it's easy to play pantheon early game, and it just keeps getting harder throughout the whole rest of the game. he is good at providing map control though.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
July 09 2010 21:04 GMT
#4885
Well, this is stoppin on LoL. On that same game we played, travis you need to adapt your item builds. Tbh I feel boots of mobility isn't that great on warwick - once bloodlust kicks in that extra speed is negligible. It will only help in fringe cases.

Secondly, your WW wasn't as bad as Southlight made it sound. It is just that WW cant initiate in 5v5 teamfights, especially if you go dmg WW. It is a different playstyle from smaller ganks/fights. You also need to adapt your item build - in that game with a sion and taric? it is best to get mercury. Against sunfire stackers mercury is also superior. Also, BR is bad against tanks, the oft-mentioned bloodrazor is better.

Oh yes, the reason why WW is such a good jungler is also because lvl 4 blood scent helps to catch their opposing jungler. As WW, they should worry more about you than you about them.

Hope this helps.

P.S - Rate my play Southlight.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
July 09 2010 21:06 GMT
#4886
I can't wait until they buff Veigar in the next patch, he's just so bad now =(

[image loading]
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
July 09 2010 21:10 GMT
#4887
On July 10 2010 06:04 cascades wrote:
Well, this is stoppin on LoL. On that same game we played, travis you need to adapt your item builds. Tbh I feel boots of mobility isn't that great on warwick - once bloodlust kicks in that extra speed is negligible. It will only help in fringe cases.

Secondly, your WW wasn't as bad as Southlight made it sound. It is just that WW cant initiate in 5v5 teamfights, especially if you go dmg WW. It is a different playstyle from smaller ganks/fights. You also need to adapt your item build - in that game with a sion and taric? it is best to get mercury. Against sunfire stackers mercury is also superior. Also, BR is bad against tanks, the oft-mentioned bloodrazor is better.

Oh yes, the reason why WW is such a good jungler is also because lvl 4 blood scent helps to catch their opposing jungler. As WW, they should worry more about you than you about them.

Hope this helps.

P.S - Rate my play Southlight.


WW, get Merc Treads, every time. WW is very susceptible to CC, so you need that CC reduction.

I strongly advocate item adaptation. Tanks need to itemize the most, followed by DPS champions. Melee more so than Ranged. Caster can have a fairly static item build however.

And that's not the reason why WW is so good at jungling. Level 4 Blood Scent is level 17? There's no reason why you'd level Blood Scent that high over Q or W.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
July 09 2010 21:10 GMT
#4888
oh man veigar vs veigar battles used to be so funny.
oh well
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
July 09 2010 21:12 GMT
#4889
On July 10 2010 06:06 Shikyo wrote:
I can't wait until they buff Veigar in the next patch, he's just so bad now =(

[image loading]


hur hur hur...
Veigar is going to be very viable in draft mode. Gonna pwn some Liches and Annies.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
July 09 2010 21:14 GMT
#4890
On July 10 2010 06:10 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2010 06:04 cascades wrote:
Well, this is stoppin on LoL. On that same game we played, travis you need to adapt your item builds. Tbh I feel boots of mobility isn't that great on warwick - once bloodlust kicks in that extra speed is negligible. It will only help in fringe cases.

Secondly, your WW wasn't as bad as Southlight made it sound. It is just that WW cant initiate in 5v5 teamfights, especially if you go dmg WW. It is a different playstyle from smaller ganks/fights. You also need to adapt your item build - in that game with a sion and taric? it is best to get mercury. Against sunfire stackers mercury is also superior. Also, BR is bad against tanks, the oft-mentioned bloodrazor is better.

Oh yes, the reason why WW is such a good jungler is also because lvl 4 blood scent helps to catch their opposing jungler. As WW, they should worry more about you than you about them.

Hope this helps.

P.S - Rate my play Southlight.


WW, get Merc Treads, every time. WW is very susceptible to CC, so you need that CC reduction.

I strongly advocate item adaptation. Tanks need to itemize the most, followed by DPS champions. Melee more so than Ranged. Caster can have a fairly static item build however.

And that's not the reason why WW is so good at jungling. Level 4 Blood Scent is level 17? There's no reason why you'd level Blood Scent that high over Q or W.


why would u say "get treads every time"
why do i want to move slower if they don't have much CC?
i'd much rather spend 200 less and move faster if I don't need to worry about CC
that said, i do get treads most of the time
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 21:25:51
July 09 2010 21:25 GMT
#4891
On July 10 2010 06:14 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2010 06:10 NeoIllusions wrote:
On July 10 2010 06:04 cascades wrote:
Well, this is stoppin on LoL. On that same game we played, travis you need to adapt your item builds. Tbh I feel boots of mobility isn't that great on warwick - once bloodlust kicks in that extra speed is negligible. It will only help in fringe cases.

Secondly, your WW wasn't as bad as Southlight made it sound. It is just that WW cant initiate in 5v5 teamfights, especially if you go dmg WW. It is a different playstyle from smaller ganks/fights. You also need to adapt your item build - in that game with a sion and taric? it is best to get mercury. Against sunfire stackers mercury is also superior. Also, BR is bad against tanks, the oft-mentioned bloodrazor is better.

Oh yes, the reason why WW is such a good jungler is also because lvl 4 blood scent helps to catch their opposing jungler. As WW, they should worry more about you than you about them.

Hope this helps.

P.S - Rate my play Southlight.


WW, get Merc Treads, every time. WW is very susceptible to CC, so you need that CC reduction.

I strongly advocate item adaptation. Tanks need to itemize the most, followed by DPS champions. Melee more so than Ranged. Caster can have a fairly static item build however.

And that's not the reason why WW is so good at jungling. Level 4 Blood Scent is level 17? There's no reason why you'd level Blood Scent that high over Q or W.


why would u say "get treads every time"
why do i want to move slower if they don't have much CC?
i'd much rather spend 200 less and move faster if I don't need to worry about CC
that said, i do get treads most of the time

its pretty rare for them to have zero to little CC, and in general, pretty much every team comp is gonna lose anyways if they have no CC
Mobility boots are fun on ww =p
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
July 09 2010 21:26 GMT
#4892
They're buffing Veigar? I'm thinking about making him my "alt" of sorts and share a runebook and spec between him and TF.
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
July 09 2010 21:28 GMT
#4893
Man the first thing i did with annie was buy an entire page of AP/LvL coz, AP is the shit right?
God im such a dumbfuuck LOL
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
July 09 2010 21:32 GMT
#4894
On July 10 2010 06:28 HeavOnEarth wrote:
Man the first thing i did with annie was buy an entire page of AP/LvL coz, AP is the shit right?
God im such a dumbfuuck LOL

thats not bad on a caster for glyphs, although both cdr and mres are probably better depending on the situation. If you bought ap5 seals and marks, umm I don't know what to say...
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Tadzio
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
3340 Posts
July 09 2010 21:57 GMT
#4895
Why is Ashe considered top tier? I've been playing her lately, primarily because she's cheap and considered top-tier, but my impression of her is underwhelming. I doubt I'm playing her optimally, but it seems to me that there are a ton of heroes that slow in aoe about as well as Ashe does. Even for a ranged DPS, Ashe is pretty squishy. Master Yi, Tryndamere and other lower tier heroes (especially if they have cleanse) seem to counter her really hard. I'm pretty new, so I haven't even come close to playing all the heroes, but I feel like I can control a game better with champs like Singed, Malphite, Hiemerdinger, Nasus, Sivir, etc. I feel like I can DPS better with Twisted Fate, Twitch, Master Yi, Tryndamere. And I feel I can burst better with Gangplank and several of the mage heroes I've played.

I've been building her like this:
Longsword&pot
Brutalizer
boots
BF sword
Boots swiftness
Infinity Edge
Last Whisper
Youmuu's Ghostblade
Black Cleaver (good team) / Frozen Mallet(bad team) / Banshee's Viel(annoying CC) / Bloodthirster(raping)

Momentum is usually swung in one direction or another by the time I have boots of swiftness, and games tend to end (one way or the other) shortly after I complete Infinity edge.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
July 09 2010 22:16 GMT
#4896
On July 10 2010 06:57 Tadzio wrote:
Why is Ashe considered top tier? I've been playing her lately, primarily because she's cheap and considered top-tier, but my impression of her is underwhelming. I doubt I'm playing her optimally, but it seems to me that there are a ton of heroes that slow in aoe about as well as Ashe does. Even for a ranged DPS, Ashe is pretty squishy. Master Yi, Tryndamere and other lower tier heroes (especially if they have cleanse) seem to counter her really hard. I'm pretty new, so I haven't even come close to playing all the heroes, but I feel like I can control a game better with champs like Singed, Malphite, Hiemerdinger, Nasus, Sivir, etc. I feel like I can DPS better with Twisted Fate, Twitch, Master Yi, Tryndamere. And I feel I can burst better with Gangplank and several of the mage heroes I've played.

I've been building her like this:
Longsword&pot
Brutalizer
boots
BF sword
Boots swiftness
Infinity Edge
Last Whisper
Youmuu's Ghostblade
Black Cleaver (good team) / Frozen Mallet(bad team) / Banshee's Viel(annoying CC) / Bloodthirster(raping)

Momentum is usually swung in one direction or another by the time I have boots of swiftness, and games tend to end (one way or the other) shortly after I complete Infinity edge.

She's considered top-tier, because she basically can kill a weaker champion 100% of the time because they can't run away and can kite and run away from most others. She has a spammable AoE slow that deals a nice chunk of damage as well, a really good ultimate that can be used to initiate and for a billion other things as well, can also carry really well since nothing can run from her, she also has a nice burst with volley + crit and even a possible ulti.

The build I've told my friend to use with pretty good success(he's like 65% winrate after like 230 games as ashe) is pretty much: (scepter where you feel like it'd be useful)BF Sword, Occult, Inf Edge, (Last Whisper, Brutalizer, Phantom Dancer, Bloodthirster whatever is needed) and survivability or whatever else for the other slots. Ashe gets assists extremely well with Volley and in most games your occult is going to charge so high that you'll just insta-carry the game at like 20 minutes. Of course you can just skip the occult if you're not doing too well.

As for your build it seems okay although I'd take some other boots than swiftness. Think about it this way, if you get movespeed quints you can replace swiftness with berserker boots and you'll have about the same movespeed with some extra gold and 25% attack speed. Normally the best boots are merc treads, though.

Frozen mallet on Ashe is redundant, get Soul Shroud instead if you want some hp.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 22:25:06
July 09 2010 22:24 GMT
#4897
I don't think Ashe as a hero is top-tier, but she's highly-regarded because she has a lot of nice utility. She has a comsat scan, she has a long-range stun (that also doubles as a semi-AoE nuke), she has a fairly spammable long-range harass/nuke (that also doubles as a long-range snare), and she snares. No one really expects her to out-DPS pure DPS heroes, and she'll get hard-countered by fuckfaces like Olaf and Jax, but she's a melee DPSer's worst nightmare. There's basically never a game that Ashe is "useless" and she's always relevant, from the beginning of the game to the end, which isn't something you can say for the majority of heroes. And if nothing else she's a defensive stalwart that can hold a tower with the best of them.

Edit:
On July 10 2010 06:04 cascades wrote:
P.S - Rate my play Southlight.


I wasn't watching, and to be REALLY honest I only looked at you as bait for most of the game, so the only thing I can say is I was pleasantly surprised that you farmed up pretty well LOL
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 23:05:27
July 09 2010 22:33 GMT
#4898
If you've ever played Battle for Wesnoth, you can kind of think of Ashe as the Ulfserker and it should greatly improve your play and gamesense and decision making as Ashe. Basically, Ulfserker is a melee unit that has slightly lower dmg than most other dedicated melee units and has a berserker ability that makes him fight to the death with his opponent. If you attack a mage or an archer or a support with him, he ensures their death(like Ashe does with her slow). If he gets attacked by any dedicated dps, he's nearly always dead(like Ashe is vs Master Yi for example).

Thinking like this greatly improved my decision-making and overall gameplay as Ashe. Of course there's still the massive amounts of utility she can do but this is a good basis for your mindset as Ashe.

E: About the significance of lasthitting. I just tested in a practice mode how many minion kills I'd get with proper lasthitting / with just autoattack, and at 12 minutes I had about 129 minion kills with lasthitting and 54 with just autoattacking. So it's kind of significant to learn~
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Tadzio
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
3340 Posts
July 09 2010 23:17 GMT
#4899
Is your edit talking to someone else?
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3890 Posts
July 09 2010 23:30 GMT
#4900
Ok so I checked my taric stats, and I noticed Im even on Magic Damage and Physical damage..and neither is very high, should I be using some kind of defense stat instead of armor pen in Marks?
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
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