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On July 08 2010 02:34 Nokeboy wrote:
really? it doesn't get worse at higher ratings? every game there is literally a player who does nothing but backdoor. Its always Shaco... last week it was Heimer though
At higher ratings attempting to backdoor usually leads to your team getting obliterated. I really don't know what to say except that when a hero hits backdoor stage and your team can't do anything about it, you've generally done something wrong leading up to that point.
If your inhibitor towers have gone down and they have a teleport hero, there's nothing you can do to PREVENT the inhib kill so the best you can do is push and at least force a trade of inhibs.
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On July 08 2010 02:44 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 02 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 08 2010 02 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:34 Nokeboy wrote:
really? it doesn't get worse at higher ratings? every game there is literally a player who does nothing but backdoor. Its always Shaco... last week it was Heimer though Heimer? Do you know what backdooring is btw?
Sure, its killing the tower without creeps there.
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Backdooring pretty much only comes to play after your team has lost a teamfight or you have inhib turrets down, other than that it really hasn't been an issue.
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On July 08 2010 03:03 Shikyo wrote:
Backdooring pretty much only comes to play after your team has lost a teamfight or you have inhib turrets down, other than that it really hasn't been an issue.
Gosh high level games seem to be much more fun than these newbie things. Shit is frusterating as hell getting BD'd and people dying for no reason. All kind of annoying things in newbie games, but im never going to get higher because I can't win any of these games despite my good records
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Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this?
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i got into acceptable elos by farming wins with the new TF.
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On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this?
its almost like i made a new account and its you!
Im going through the exact damn thing every single game. No one listens, no one knows how to micro, and no one really cares (CAUSE ITS A FREE GAME). 22-3 yesterday with max items but still got rolled over because everyone dies before team fights and I usually am forced to either suicide or sit back and watch 5 people roll my base with only 3 people alive
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Why don't you guys just premade with each other, then? :x
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On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this?
if you are winning 50%+ of the time, you will progress
If you are winning less then that, the problem is at least partially with you (if you have over 50 games for a good sample size)
This is because, if you play well, there is a better chance that the other team gets a retard then your team (5 chances vs the 4 on your team) If you consistantly can't win, the retard may be you... 
odds are even better if you premade with any number of people obviously...
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On July 08 2010 03:21 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this? if you are winning 50%+ of the time, you will progress If you are winning less then that, the problem is at least partially with you (if you have over 50 games for a good sample size) This is because, if you play well, there is a better chance that the other team gets a retard then your team (5 chances vs the 4 on your team) If you consistantly can't win, the retard may be you...
I don't think you understand how bad players are. I know exactly what he is talking about. I've said it before in this thread but try averaging 2;1 k/d with 250-300 creep kills a game but still losing more than half of your games. People don't know how to control their characters in the lowbie ratings, so they just rush in with attack move.
Newbies are pretty much GUARANTEED to chase. You can not tell a newbie not to chase. I don't know how many times someone has gotten someone to like 20% and they chase them halfway across the map just to die to everyone on their team.
Newbies also for some reason have egos. You tell them what to do, they call you a newb and then go tower dive. You deal with mostly probably 13-15 year old who are with their buddies. So trying to help them is taken as a insult and they just go crazy to try and look cool in front of their friends. Sometimes even the friends join in with the "newbieness" like tower diving etc etc.
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My win/loss ration went up a great deal when i started doing premades. Just hit up some TL peeps and get a 5man going. After awhile, solo becomes much better, the dumbasses become a minority rather than a majority.
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On July 08 2010 03 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 08 2010 03 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:20 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this? its almost like i made a new account and its you! Im going through the exact damn thing every single game. No one listens, no one knows how to micro, and no one really cares (CAUSE ITS A FREE GAME). 22-3 yesterday with max items but still got rolled over because everyone dies before team fights and I usually am forced to either suicide or sit back and watch 5 people roll my base with only 3 people alive
Rofl no one cares is exactly the worst problem in those games. People like feed and when you tell them to stop playing bad, it's always like "wtf it's a game, not your whole life, games are supposed to be fun" like what kind of bs is that, is it really that fun to be terrible and lose all the time?
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On July 08 2010 03:26 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 08 2010 03 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:20 Nokeboy wrote:On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this? its almost like i made a new account and its you! Im going through the exact damn thing every single game. No one listens, no one knows how to micro, and no one really cares (CAUSE ITS A FREE GAME). 22-3 yesterday with max items but still got rolled over because everyone dies before team fights and I usually am forced to either suicide or sit back and watch 5 people roll my base with only 3 people alive Rofl no one cares is exactly the worst problem in those games. People like feed and when you tell them to stop playing bad, it's always like "wtf it's a game, not your whole life, games are supposed to be fun" like what kind of bs is that, is it really that fun to be terrible and lose all the time?
This is creepy. First Fruscainte basically quoted me and now you did. I don't know how many times I have heard "it's a game and games are supposed to be fun" and I say something pretty much identical to what you said
I actually just played a game with 2 people who just fed all game because "you get more IP points losing quickly than winning slowly". People just don't care
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On July 08 2010 03:23 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:21 Shiladie wrote:On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this? if you are winning 50%+ of the time, you will progress If you are winning less then that, the problem is at least partially with you (if you have over 50 games for a good sample size) This is because, if you play well, there is a better chance that the other team gets a retard then your team (5 chances vs the 4 on your team) If you consistantly can't win, the retard may be you... I don't think you understand how bad players are. I know exactly what he is talking about. I've said it before in this thread but try averaging 2;1 k/d with 250-300 creep kills a game but still losing more than half of your games.
it doesnt really matter how bad the players are. if the MM is working as intended(which it does occasionally), then there is equal chance of both your team and the other getting equal amounts of retards. if you arent a retard, then you are -1 retard for your team. which should give you a slight advantage
my issue is that Im really not good at carrying and dont have alot of the game sense for early/mid game other than staying in lane and doing well there. so i usually do well or okay in lane, but its hard for me to do the snowballing/dont know when to gank. if i have one other decent player on my team that can do those things, i am a good team player once it comes to late game and i think i have abit better game sense then. so really im good at not feeding and not fucking up, but im not good at winning.
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On July 08 2010 03:23 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:21 Shiladie wrote:On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this? if you are winning 50%+ of the time, you will progress If you are winning less then that, the problem is at least partially with you (if you have over 50 games for a good sample size) This is because, if you play well, there is a better chance that the other team gets a retard then your team (5 chances vs the 4 on your team) If you consistantly can't win, the retard may be you... I don't think you understand how bad players are. I know exactly what he is talking about. I've said it before in this thread but try averaging 2;1 k/d with 250-300 creep kills a game but still losing more than half of your games.
I understand exactly how bad other players are, lets do an experiment to prove this for you then:
Take a 6 sided dice, roll it 5 times and total the numbers for the opponent's team's skill level, then roll it 4 times and tally it up for your team, then add a flat 5 for yourself, since we are assuming you are a decently good player. the average total for team 1 is 5 x 3.5 = 17.5, the average total for team 2 (your team) is 4 x 3.5 + 5 = 19
This shows that on average, if you are an above average player, you will win more then 50% of the time. If you are not(over a significant test pool, ie 50+ games), the problem is with yourself.
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On July 08 2010 03:31 Orpheos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:23 Nokeboy wrote:On July 08 2010 03:21 Shiladie wrote:On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this? if you are winning 50%+ of the time, you will progress If you are winning less then that, the problem is at least partially with you (if you have over 50 games for a good sample size) This is because, if you play well, there is a better chance that the other team gets a retard then your team (5 chances vs the 4 on your team) If you consistantly can't win, the retard may be you... I don't think you understand how bad players are. I know exactly what he is talking about. I've said it before in this thread but try averaging 2;1 k/d with 250-300 creep kills a game but still losing more than half of your games. it doesnt really matter how bad the players are. if the MM is working as intended(which it does occasionally), then there is equal chance of both your team and the other getting equal amounts of retards. if you arent a retard, then you are -1 retard for your team. which should give you a slight advantage my issue is that Im really not good at carrying and dont have alot of the game sense for early/mid game other than staying in lane and doing well there. so i usually do well or okay in lane, but its hard for me to do the snowballing/dont know when to gank. if i have one other decent player on my team that can do those things, i am a good team player once it comes to late game and i think i have abit better game sense then. so really im good at not feeding and not fucking up, but im not good at winning.
exactly what I was trying to say, but with less math
and yea, it's more complex once you get into team-work based heroes, but the premise is still there.
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On July 08 2010 03:32 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:23 Nokeboy wrote:On July 08 2010 03:21 Shiladie wrote:On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this? if you are winning 50%+ of the time, you will progress If you are winning less then that, the problem is at least partially with you (if you have over 50 games for a good sample size) This is because, if you play well, there is a better chance that the other team gets a retard then your team (5 chances vs the 4 on your team) If you consistantly can't win, the retard may be you... I don't think you understand how bad players are. I know exactly what he is talking about. I've said it before in this thread but try averaging 2;1 k/d with 250-300 creep kills a game but still losing more than half of your games. I understand exactly how bad other players are, lets do an experiment to prove this for you then: Take a 6 sided dice, roll it 5 times and total the numbers for the opponent's team's skill level, then roll it 4 times and tally it up for your team, then add a flat 5 for yourself, since we are assuming you are a decently good player. the average total for team 1 is 5 x 3.5 = 17.5, the average total for team 2 (your team) is 4 x 3.5 + 5 = 19 This shows that on average, if you are an above average player, you will win more then 50% of the time. If you are not(over a significant test pool, ie 50+ games), the problem is with yourself.
It would be nice if it worked like that. I don't know why but I rarely get premade players on my team while facing a good amount of premade teams.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
i dont think the low elo problem is as big a problem as you guys are making it out to be. everytime i make a smurf I can still carry my team to victory 1v5 easily with characters like AP shaco. you can nuke a person for their full hp every 6 seconds when fed...not really that hard
oh singed is epic too. probably the most straightforward 1v5 stomp character.
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On July 08 2010 03:38 Nokeboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 03:32 Shiladie wrote:On July 08 2010 03:23 Nokeboy wrote:On July 08 2010 03:21 Shiladie wrote:On July 08 2010 03:16 Fruscainte wrote:
Seriously. It's not that I'm not good it's that my team freaking sucks. A pantheon who leaves after going 0-10 in the first few minutes, then a Shen who kill steals all game as a tank and keeps trying to solo the entire team, a Katarina who doesn't do ANYTHING at all, and a Warwick who keeps tower diving into the entire team.
I mean seriously. How the hell am I supposed to progress with shit like this? if you are winning 50%+ of the time, you will progress If you are winning less then that, the problem is at least partially with you (if you have over 50 games for a good sample size) This is because, if you play well, there is a better chance that the other team gets a retard then your team (5 chances vs the 4 on your team) If you consistantly can't win, the retard may be you... I don't think you understand how bad players are. I know exactly what he is talking about. I've said it before in this thread but try averaging 2;1 k/d with 250-300 creep kills a game but still losing more than half of your games. I understand exactly how bad other players are, lets do an experiment to prove this for you then: Take a 6 sided dice, roll it 5 times and total the numbers for the opponent's team's skill level, then roll it 4 times and tally it up for your team, then add a flat 5 for yourself, since we are assuming you are a decently good player. the average total for team 1 is 5 x 3.5 = 17.5, the average total for team 2 (your team) is 4 x 3.5 + 5 = 19 This shows that on average, if you are an above average player, you will win more then 50% of the time. If you are not(over a significant test pool, ie 50+ games), the problem is with yourself. It would be nice if it worked like that. I don't know why but I rarely get premade players on my team while facing a good amount of premade teams.
but you do understand our logic right? yes it sucks. i had a losing streak when i was +15 that brought me to even and i didnt feel like my opponents got stronger my teammates just got dumber. but now im out and im 50%. you just have bad streaks. suck it up.
or just find a premade.
edit*
to brees.
my problem wasnt with low elo cause at that point if you have a shred of intelligence you will win. my problem is with mid elo where you still get idiots but you still face against roflstomp premades/smurfs.
that and ive never played DOTA games before so in order to develop a good game sense i need to play more games with people who are better than me. which is really the only down side to MM.
as much as people rage at MM, i think people take it for granted. if you didnt have anything like it, it would be even harder to get an even game.
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On July 08 2010 03:43 Brees wrote:
i dont think the low elo problem is as big a problem as you guys are making it out to be. everytime i make a smurf I can still carry my team to victory 1v5 easily with characters like AP shaco. you can nuke a person for their full hp every 6 seconds when fed...not really that hard
That is where you an I are different. I don't get off on playing imba heros with above average escape mechanisms. I had a feeling someone was going to come along and say I play shaco at low elo and win easily...
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EPT
