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On July 03 2010 18:47 judochopaction wrote:i think this is outdated as in its no good for these days needs
I've just been opening meki + 2 pots and raise morale to kill 2 melee creeps before we get to lane (denying like 2/6 of the exp) and going parrrrley remove scurvy parrrley parrrrley ult parrrley
2 avarice blades then straight for inf edge>black cleaver/bloodthirster
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On July 04 2010 01:12 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 00:54 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 00:08 myopia wrote:
I thought yellow MP5plvl was the only way to go (for casters) Well generally there's two ways you can build your caster's Seals and Glyphs. Either you get MP5/lvl Seals and Cooldown Reduction Glyphs, or you go Health/lvl Seals and MP5/lvl Glyphs. I usually go for the second option. Wat I disagree wholeheartedly with hp/lv on anyone, much less a caster. Dodge seals (Nimbleness trigger) or mp5/lv seals, there's no real other option. Glyphs can be mp5/lv or flat/per lv cdr.
Wat
I disagree! Dodge seals are terrible on casters. They do not have enough health to make them worth it. Dodge is worth it on tanks that will dodge multiple hits before going down. When your total HP is under 2000, dodge seals are pretty worthless. You will dodge maybe 1 attack before dying to damage. The extra health provided by health/lvl runes is a much greater boost to a caster's survivability.
And nimbleness trigger, what? Most casters build 9/0/21.
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On July 04 2010 00:27 NB wrote:(...) on another story, had a game today where my annie creep stat >300... teammate fucked that game up but still... I hate how i soloq queue and get into 4 people premade game, they r either all bad or 1-2 Horribly bad and 2 decent  ... got that like 5 times today
If you had >300 creep/minion kills then chances are you did not play annie aggressive enough and should shoulder some of the blame for the loss yourself (even if you where the best player on the team).
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On July 04 2010 01:31 Khenra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 01:12 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On July 04 2010 00:54 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 00:08 myopia wrote:
I thought yellow MP5plvl was the only way to go (for casters) Well generally there's two ways you can build your caster's Seals and Glyphs. Either you get MP5/lvl Seals and Cooldown Reduction Glyphs, or you go Health/lvl Seals and MP5/lvl Glyphs. I usually go for the second option. Wat I disagree wholeheartedly with hp/lv on anyone, much less a caster. Dodge seals (Nimbleness trigger) or mp5/lv seals, there's no real other option. Glyphs can be mp5/lv or flat/per lv cdr. Wat I disagree! Dodge seals are terrible on casters. They do not have enough health to make them worth it. Dodge is worth it on tanks that will dodge multiple hits before going down. When your total HP is under 2000, dodge seals are pretty worthless. You will dodge maybe 1 attack before dying to damage. The extra health provided by health/lvl runes is a much greater boost to a caster's survivability. And nimbleness trigger, what? Most casters build 9/0/21.
Dodge gives more survival than flat hp. 6.8% chance to dodge an attack that probably does several times more damage than the amount of hp you gain from the seals makes it worth it.
And if you spec 9 in defense you get 2% more dodge as well as 10% MS boost upon dodging.
Dodge is unfortunately the best type of survival against physical damage.
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US Client: Maybeis
Haven't played in a bit. But if anyone likes the UP champs, it is I. Nothing beats beating down others with heroes that are classified as the underpowered ones at the time.
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First thing that happens in game: our Teemo disconnects.
Second thing: Ashe runs to mid, runs just outside their tower range, stands there.
Third thing: The blitzcrank waiting in mid grabs Ashe, exhausts her, and kills her.
Needless to say, this game ended poorly.
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On July 04 2010 01:50 Phrost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 01:31 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 01:12 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On July 04 2010 00:54 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 00:08 myopia wrote:
I thought yellow MP5plvl was the only way to go (for casters) Well generally there's two ways you can build your caster's Seals and Glyphs. Either you get MP5/lvl Seals and Cooldown Reduction Glyphs, or you go Health/lvl Seals and MP5/lvl Glyphs. I usually go for the second option. Wat I disagree wholeheartedly with hp/lv on anyone, much less a caster. Dodge seals (Nimbleness trigger) or mp5/lv seals, there's no real other option. Glyphs can be mp5/lv or flat/per lv cdr. Wat I disagree! Dodge seals are terrible on casters. They do not have enough health to make them worth it. Dodge is worth it on tanks that will dodge multiple hits before going down. When your total HP is under 2000, dodge seals are pretty worthless. You will dodge maybe 1 attack before dying to damage. The extra health provided by health/lvl runes is a much greater boost to a caster's survivability. And nimbleness trigger, what? Most casters build 9/0/21. Dodge gives more survival than flat hp. 6.8% chance to dodge an attack that probably does several times more damage than the amount of hp you gain from the seals makes it worth it. And if you spec 9 in defense you get 2% more dodge as well as 10% MS boost upon dodging. Dodge is unfortunately the best type of survival against physical damage.
Well you said it, against physical damage only.
But there's another issue with dodge. In the laning phase, extra health allows you to be more aggressive, while you can't rely on a lucky dodge to make your attack succeed.
When you calculate it, in the endgame the 6.7% dodge gained from seals will translate into something like 500 dmg a hit * 0.067 = 33,5 less hp lost per hit recieved. Health seals give you 175 hp at lvl 18, so when taking 5 normal attacks the runes are equal.
However, this math kind of sucks because dodge is unreliable, AND it does not protect against magical damage. This makes health runes superior.
Really, I used to run dodge seals for the longest time, just blindly following what I heard or read of forums. Now I only run dodge on (some) tanks, and health on almost everything else. Just try it, and you'll see my point.
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my logic is that in a big battle, that little bit of health really isnt going to save you if you were going to die anyways. so yea sure averaged out over the long term the dodge may give you less effective health, but in general that little bit of effective health isnt going to help most people. but that little bit of burst health from dodge takes the effective health from multiple instances and lumps it all into one instance, allowing you to live in that one instance instead of being insignificant in multiple instances. idk if that made sense, but it does to me.
edit*
oh and im having lots of fun with morg. she farms really well and the tanky support caster thing is really cool. idk maybe i dig the whole off tank support thing(blitz is one of my fav chars) because im bad at carrying teams but i hate being ineffectual if my team is shit(which is the case with me playing real tanks) and i hate not contributing to a team fight.
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I really dislike this game when I go 10-1-21 with anivia and my team still loses.
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Anyone else having major issues with the server?
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I can't seem to chat, but I can join a game :\
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On July 04 2010 01 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 01 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:15 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2010 18:47 judochopaction wrote:i think this is outdated as in its no good for these days needs I've just been opening meki + 2 pots and raise morale to kill 2 melee creeps before we get to lane (denying like 2/6 of the exp) and going parrrrley remove scurvy parrrley parrrrley ult parrrley 2 avarice blades then straight for inf edge>black cleaver/bloodthirster
The heat and serve guide is really bad.
My build is pretty much like yours: Raise morale, parrrley, then heal, and then I level parrrley unless I really need remove scurvy to stay on the lane. I try to manage with lvl 3 scurvy max, and normally that's possible unless you're 1v2 vs something super lame.
For the item build, it's a normal 2x avarice, inf edge, then I get youmu, then a brutalizer. With these items your parrrley does insane dmg. After this you should focus on survivability, get whatever you need vs the enemy composition, Atma's impaler combined with something like Banshee Veil might be really good in some cases.
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Liquidparty is back!!
GOGO !!
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On July 04 2010 02 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 02 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:46 Khenra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 01:50 Phrost wrote:On July 04 2010 01:31 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 01:12 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On July 04 2010 00:54 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 00:08 myopia wrote:
I thought yellow MP5plvl was the only way to go (for casters) Well generally there's two ways you can build your caster's Seals and Glyphs. Either you get MP5/lvl Seals and Cooldown Reduction Glyphs, or you go Health/lvl Seals and MP5/lvl Glyphs. I usually go for the second option. Wat I disagree wholeheartedly with hp/lv on anyone, much less a caster. Dodge seals (Nimbleness trigger) or mp5/lv seals, there's no real other option. Glyphs can be mp5/lv or flat/per lv cdr. Wat I disagree! Dodge seals are terrible on casters. They do not have enough health to make them worth it. Dodge is worth it on tanks that will dodge multiple hits before going down. When your total HP is under 2000, dodge seals are pretty worthless. You will dodge maybe 1 attack before dying to damage. The extra health provided by health/lvl runes is a much greater boost to a caster's survivability. And nimbleness trigger, what? Most casters build 9/0/21. Dodge gives more survival than flat hp. 6.8% chance to dodge an attack that probably does several times more damage than the amount of hp you gain from the seals makes it worth it. And if you spec 9 in defense you get 2% more dodge as well as 10% MS boost upon dodging. Dodge is unfortunately the best type of survival against physical damage. Well you said it, against physical damage only. But there's another issue with dodge. In the laning phase, extra health allows you to be more aggressive, while you can't rely on a lucky dodge to make your attack succeed. When you calculate it, in the endgame the 6.7% dodge gained from seals will translate into something like 500 dmg a hit * 0.067 = 33,5 less hp lost per hit recieved. Health seals give you 175 hp at lvl 18, so when taking 5 normal attacks the runes are equal. However, this math kind of sucks because dodge is unreliable, AND it does not protect against magical damage. This makes health runes superior. Really, I used to run dodge seals for the longest time, just blindly following what I heard or read of forums. Now I only run dodge on (some) tanks, and health on almost everything else. Just try it, and you'll see my point.
Well the thing about dodge is that there's a chance it saves you when health couldn't. Like if an attack would deal 500 dmg and you have 100 / 300 hp with runes, the extra hp won't save you but the dodge might.
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Lol i just had the sickest come backs ever. It started out with a leaver and afker, i was Tristana and my allies were Twitch and Olaf. The Opposing team had 8 kills first 10 mins, i had no death cause i was soloing mid. Then us 3 started ganking and stuff, taking them out one by one while Olaf is tanking them. 20 min mark I was 10-2, Twitch was 9-0 and Olaf 9-5. The game ended at 26min lol.
Basically it was 3v5 and a bad start, also most of our towers were down lol.
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On July 04 2010 03:36 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 02 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 02 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:46 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 01:50 Phrost wrote:On July 04 2010 01:31 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 01:12 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On July 04 2010 00:54 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 00:08 myopia wrote:
I thought yellow MP5plvl was the only way to go (for casters) Well generally there's two ways you can build your caster's Seals and Glyphs. Either you get MP5/lvl Seals and Cooldown Reduction Glyphs, or you go Health/lvl Seals and MP5/lvl Glyphs. I usually go for the second option. Wat I disagree wholeheartedly with hp/lv on anyone, much less a caster. Dodge seals (Nimbleness trigger) or mp5/lv seals, there's no real other option. Glyphs can be mp5/lv or flat/per lv cdr. Wat I disagree! Dodge seals are terrible on casters. They do not have enough health to make them worth it. Dodge is worth it on tanks that will dodge multiple hits before going down. When your total HP is under 2000, dodge seals are pretty worthless. You will dodge maybe 1 attack before dying to damage. The extra health provided by health/lvl runes is a much greater boost to a caster's survivability. And nimbleness trigger, what? Most casters build 9/0/21. Dodge gives more survival than flat hp. 6.8% chance to dodge an attack that probably does several times more damage than the amount of hp you gain from the seals makes it worth it. And if you spec 9 in defense you get 2% more dodge as well as 10% MS boost upon dodging. Dodge is unfortunately the best type of survival against physical damage. Well you said it, against physical damage only. But there's another issue with dodge. In the laning phase, extra health allows you to be more aggressive, while you can't rely on a lucky dodge to make your attack succeed. When you calculate it, in the endgame the 6.7% dodge gained from seals will translate into something like 500 dmg a hit * 0.067 = 33,5 less hp lost per hit recieved. Health seals give you 175 hp at lvl 18, so when taking 5 normal attacks the runes are equal. However, this math kind of sucks because dodge is unreliable, AND it does not protect against magical damage. This makes health runes superior. Really, I used to run dodge seals for the longest time, just blindly following what I heard or read of forums. Now I only run dodge on (some) tanks, and health on almost everything else. Just try it, and you'll see my point. Well the thing about dodge is that there's a chance it saves you when health couldn't. Like if an attack would deal 500 dmg and you have 100 / 300 hp with runes, the extra hp won't save you but the dodge might.
However, the extra health gives you an opportunity to react to the situation and back out early enough. Anyway, I think the argument ends with the fact that dodge is unreliable while health is reliable. Health saves you more often (imo), although living by dodging an attacks will make you remember it 
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So they had 8 kills and your scores were 10-2, 9-0 and 9-5 o_o
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On July 04 2010 03 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 03 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:41 Khenra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 03:36 Shikyo wrote:On July 04 2010 02 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 02 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:46 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 01:50 Phrost wrote:On July 04 2010 01:31 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 01:12 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On July 04 2010 00:54 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 00:08 myopia wrote:
I thought yellow MP5plvl was the only way to go (for casters) Well generally there's two ways you can build your caster's Seals and Glyphs. Either you get MP5/lvl Seals and Cooldown Reduction Glyphs, or you go Health/lvl Seals and MP5/lvl Glyphs. I usually go for the second option. Wat I disagree wholeheartedly with hp/lv on anyone, much less a caster. Dodge seals (Nimbleness trigger) or mp5/lv seals, there's no real other option. Glyphs can be mp5/lv or flat/per lv cdr. Wat I disagree! Dodge seals are terrible on casters. They do not have enough health to make them worth it. Dodge is worth it on tanks that will dodge multiple hits before going down. When your total HP is under 2000, dodge seals are pretty worthless. You will dodge maybe 1 attack before dying to damage. The extra health provided by health/lvl runes is a much greater boost to a caster's survivability. And nimbleness trigger, what? Most casters build 9/0/21. Dodge gives more survival than flat hp. 6.8% chance to dodge an attack that probably does several times more damage than the amount of hp you gain from the seals makes it worth it. And if you spec 9 in defense you get 2% more dodge as well as 10% MS boost upon dodging. Dodge is unfortunately the best type of survival against physical damage. Well you said it, against physical damage only. But there's another issue with dodge. In the laning phase, extra health allows you to be more aggressive, while you can't rely on a lucky dodge to make your attack succeed. When you calculate it, in the endgame the 6.7% dodge gained from seals will translate into something like 500 dmg a hit * 0.067 = 33,5 less hp lost per hit recieved. Health seals give you 175 hp at lvl 18, so when taking 5 normal attacks the runes are equal. However, this math kind of sucks because dodge is unreliable, AND it does not protect against magical damage. This makes health runes superior. Really, I used to run dodge seals for the longest time, just blindly following what I heard or read of forums. Now I only run dodge on (some) tanks, and health on almost everything else. Just try it, and you'll see my point. Well the thing about dodge is that there's a chance it saves you when health couldn't. Like if an attack would deal 500 dmg and you have 100 / 300 hp with runes, the extra hp won't save you but the dodge might. However, the extra health gives you an opportunity to react to the situation and back out early enough. Anyway, I think the argument ends with the fact that dodge is unreliable while health is reliable. Health saves you more often (imo), although living by dodging an attacks will make you remember it
On July 04 2010 03 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 03 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:41 Khenra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 03:36 Shikyo wrote:On July 04 2010 02 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 04 2010 02 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:46 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 01:50 Phrost wrote:On July 04 2010 01:31 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 01:12 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On July 04 2010 00:54 Khenra wrote:On July 04 2010 00:08 myopia wrote:
I thought yellow MP5plvl was the only way to go (for casters) Well generally there's two ways you can build your caster's Seals and Glyphs. Either you get MP5/lvl Seals and Cooldown Reduction Glyphs, or you go Health/lvl Seals and MP5/lvl Glyphs. I usually go for the second option. Wat I disagree wholeheartedly with hp/lv on anyone, much less a caster. Dodge seals (Nimbleness trigger) or mp5/lv seals, there's no real other option. Glyphs can be mp5/lv or flat/per lv cdr. Wat I disagree! Dodge seals are terrible on casters. They do not have enough health to make them worth it. Dodge is worth it on tanks that will dodge multiple hits before going down. When your total HP is under 2000, dodge seals are pretty worthless. You will dodge maybe 1 attack before dying to damage. The extra health provided by health/lvl runes is a much greater boost to a caster's survivability. And nimbleness trigger, what? Most casters build 9/0/21. Dodge gives more survival than flat hp. 6.8% chance to dodge an attack that probably does several times more damage than the amount of hp you gain from the seals makes it worth it. And if you spec 9 in defense you get 2% more dodge as well as 10% MS boost upon dodging. Dodge is unfortunately the best type of survival against physical damage. Well you said it, against physical damage only. But there's another issue with dodge. In the laning phase, extra health allows you to be more aggressive, while you can't rely on a lucky dodge to make your attack succeed. When you calculate it, in the endgame the 6.7% dodge gained from seals will translate into something like 500 dmg a hit * 0.067 = 33,5 less hp lost per hit recieved. Health seals give you 175 hp at lvl 18, so when taking 5 normal attacks the runes are equal. However, this math kind of sucks because dodge is unreliable, AND it does not protect against magical damage. This makes health runes superior. Really, I used to run dodge seals for the longest time, just blindly following what I heard or read of forums. Now I only run dodge on (some) tanks, and health on almost everything else. Just try it, and you'll see my point. Well the thing about dodge is that there's a chance it saves you when health couldn't. Like if an attack would deal 500 dmg and you have 100 / 300 hp with runes, the extra hp won't save you but the dodge might. However, the extra health gives you an opportunity to react to the situation and back out early enough. Anyway, I think the argument ends with the fact that dodge is unreliable while health is reliable. Health saves you more often (imo), although living by dodging an attacks will make you remember it the whole purpose of dodge seals is to have the chance to dodge the killer blow, or alternatively something like ashe's arrow that'd give you enough time for the slow to run out and you to escape.
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Also while you can rely on your Health runes they won't surprise your opponent either. A "lucky" dodge might not only save you but get you a kill if the opponent decided he could handle you at your hitpoints, whereas he might have just ran if you had that extra health from those HP runes. But yeah both runes have their place depending on playstyle/hero choice/laning partners.
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EPT
