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On October 06 2010 01:45 spinesheath wrote:I don't understand why people always bring this grinding stuff up. I played like 500-600 games of LoL now, something which I really would expect from anyone who plans on playing it competitively. I dropped a bit of money too because hey, I bought SC2 and don't play it all that much ("yet", as I hope), so why can't I spend less money on a game that I play more? Now I have about 25 champs and a decent selection of runes (most of the major ones) and about 10k IP left over. I could drop that on a new set of runes or 2-5 new champs etc. If I had spent as much as I spent for SC2, I could have bought both champ bundles and would only have to buy a few of the new champs. If they release a new champ bundle soon, you can think of it as an expansion much like Heart of the Swarm - if you are as dedicated as you would be to SC2 for example, that should justify another bunch of RP dropped on those. Grinding does really not seem like a huge issue to me. Well unless you smurf a whole lot and thus spread your IP on multiple accounts. That's your own problem then. Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 01:43 Kexx wrote:
If you can't see that LoL isn't flawed in it's design to be a competitive game you're blind.
What other competitive game requires you to spend hours and hours just to get everything you need to be able to play on an even level with other people? Starcraft Broodwar? Duh, just because "mechanics" can't be accumulated like IP it doesn't mean that you don't need to grind to improve them. You can play on an even level with other people in unranked, starting from level 1. That's the day you buy SCBW and log onto battle.net. Now you could enter ICCup and get roflstomped by E ranked players for 3 months straight or you play on bnet for a while until you reach a point where you can at least survive 10 minutes (now you're level 30). The only flaw is that if you come from DotA/HoN you will not suck as much as someone who is new to the genre. But then you spent those countless hours with another game already, kinda unfortunate.
Things you've accumulated in IP aren't mechanical skill. Get over yourself.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On October 06 2010 01:33 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 01:30 cascades wrote:
I am pretty sure LoL has no competitive future. Runepages + champion costs are way too high. Gone are the days where 450 ip heroes can be competitive. Not to mention for them to code replay system seems almost impossible. Because we totally didn't see Ashe or Nunu in the WCG RR, Semis, OR the GRAND Finals. Yeah. Didn't happen. And 'cause you're totally the lead programmer for Riot, having a massive migraine over how you don't know how to program a replay system. Yeah. You totally are. I'm bored right now and trolling a bit, but when people talk out of their ass it's just... pathetic. Is this really what TL is for? I was temp banned because I was "insulting," but what about blatant stupidity? Do you even know anything about programming?
You got banned because you cant have a civil discussion without flaming. Like now.
No one cares what you say to have if its riddled with trash.
Of course you aren't alone this time, there seems to be quite a bit of flaming over nothing.
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On October 06 2010 01:52 Kexx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 01:47 Brambled wrote:
I love the idea of the leveling up to 30 and earning the stuff I need to be competitive. By the time you are lv30 you should have at least 1 decent runepage for the champ you play the most. to bad you will get nowhere with a runepage that only fits one champion.
i ran one (tank) runepage on every champion for months and months, up to 1400+ elo before i started buying other runes
runes don't really mean anything compared to skill and decision making
the importance people place on rune-pages baffles me. do you really need 7 runepages? Is your playstyle with Twisted Fate really so reliant on having ArPen, HP Quints, Mp5/lvl, and AtSpd that if you started a game with ArPen, Movespeed Quints, Mp5/lvl, and Armor/Level that you'd be crippled? Of course not, and if you think that additional 0.105 attack speed is going to give you an edge that the 20 armor can't, you're an idiot. runes are pillows. they're comfortable and you want to find the right pillow for you (or your champ. i'm making a metaphor here), but it's not like you can't fall asleep with a slightly less fluffy pillow if you have to
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In this patch, are we getting the +dmg/+mr items that were on the PTR?
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On October 06 2010 02:04 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 01:52 Kexx wrote:On October 06 2010 01:47 Brambled wrote:
I love the idea of the leveling up to 30 and earning the stuff I need to be competitive. By the time you are lv30 you should have at least 1 decent runepage for the champ you play the most. to bad you will get nowhere with a runepage that only fits one champion. i ran one (tank) runepage on every champion for months and months, up to 1400+ elo before i started buying other runes runes don't really mean anything compared to skill and decision making the importance people place on rune-pages baffles me. do you really need 7 runepages? Is your playstyle with Twisted Fate really so reliant on having ArPen, HP Quints, Mp5/lvl, and AtSpd that if you started a game with ArPen, Movespeed Quints, Mp5/lvl, and Armor/Level that you'd be crippled? Of course not, and if you think that additional 0.105 attack speed is going to give you an edge that the 20 armor can't, you're an idiot. runes are pillows. they're comfortable and you want to find the right pillow for you (or your champ. i'm making a metaphor here), but it's not like you can't fall asleep with a slightly less fluffy pillow if you have to
real men sleep without pillows
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On October 06 2010 02:13 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 02:04 gtrsrs wrote:On October 06 2010 01:52 Kexx wrote:On October 06 2010 01:47 Brambled wrote:
I love the idea of the leveling up to 30 and earning the stuff I need to be competitive. By the time you are lv30 you should have at least 1 decent runepage for the champ you play the most. to bad you will get nowhere with a runepage that only fits one champion. i ran one (tank) runepage on every champion for months and months, up to 1400+ elo before i started buying other runes runes don't really mean anything compared to skill and decision making the importance people place on rune-pages baffles me. do you really need 7 runepages? Is your playstyle with Twisted Fate really so reliant on having ArPen, HP Quints, Mp5/lvl, and AtSpd that if you started a game with ArPen, Movespeed Quints, Mp5/lvl, and Armor/Level that you'd be crippled? Of course not, and if you think that additional 0.105 attack speed is going to give you an edge that the 20 armor can't, you're an idiot. runes are pillows. they're comfortable and you want to find the right pillow for you (or your champ. i'm making a metaphor here), but it's not like you can't fall asleep with a slightly less fluffy pillow if you have to real men sleep without pillows
This explains why bravemat build is so good for smurf MF
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I'm just curious... how popular is HoN over in SEA when compared to DotA?
On October 06 2010 01:33 Jazriel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 01:30 cascades wrote:
I am pretty sure LoL has no competitive future. Runepages + champion costs are way too high. Gone are the days where 450 ip heroes can be competitive. Not to mention for them to code replay system seems almost impossible. Because we totally didn't see Ashe or Nunu in the WCG RR, Semis, OR the GRAND Finals. Yeah. Didn't happen. And 'cause you're totally the lead programmer for Riot, having a massive migraine over how you don't know how to program a replay system. Yeah. You totally are. I'm bored right now and trolling a bit, but when people talk out of their ass it's just... pathetic. Is this really what TL is for? I was temp banned because I was "insulting," but what about blatant stupidity? Do you even know anything about programming?
You must work for riot or something because it's pretty obvious that the game is programmed like crap. Look at their observer system in WCG. it's a joke, they added a 6th player to each team and gave them a special summoner spell that lets them see the entire map without fog of war and that's pretty much it. It's pretty much a temporary fix/shitty solution to put in observers and that's why they haven't released this feature to the public yet.
Also look at the chat system. We still can't receive messages from friends when we're in game. How long has this been going on? How about a replay system for the game? Either riot doesn't care (which isn't good) or these are complex problems that require a lot of re-programming to fix.
It's probably a little of both. Riot's target audience is the casual crowd and they are the one that spends the most money on riot points and they probably couldn't care less about replays/observer modes/etc. Riot makes most of their money off skins and new heroes so they can pretty much churn out a random new hero with 5 skins every 2 weeks because it's easier AND more profitable than fixing the other problems.
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Does anyone have an alternate download for these that isn't this shitcash site that requires I enter my email and do a survey?
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I like the game. But I agree with crazeman.
I never stop complaining to my friends how shitty Riot work is. Severs down so many times, can't chat with friends over whisper in game. Friends list sometimes bugs up.
And they like to milk the hell out of their skins. Does 4 "legendary" skins really equal SC2? In price yes, in value, I wanna see who actually thinks so.
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hahaha who really cares if this game isn't going to carry e-sports to a whole new level. Hon wont do that, Dota didn't do that... if you want to become a progamer start getting really fucking good at SC2 ok.
LoL is really fun and addicting, good enough for me.
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On October 06 2010 02:00 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 01:33 Jazriel wrote:On October 06 2010 01:30 cascades wrote:
I am pretty sure LoL has no competitive future. Runepages + champion costs are way too high. Gone are the days where 450 ip heroes can be competitive. Not to mention for them to code replay system seems almost impossible. Because we totally didn't see Ashe or Nunu in the WCG RR, Semis, OR the GRAND Finals. Yeah. Didn't happen. And 'cause you're totally the lead programmer for Riot, having a massive migraine over how you don't know how to program a replay system. Yeah. You totally are. I'm bored right now and trolling a bit, but when people talk out of their ass it's just... pathetic. Is this really what TL is for? I was temp banned because I was "insulting," but what about blatant stupidity? Do you even know anything about programming? You got banned because you cant have a civil discussion without flaming. Like now. No one cares what you say to have if its riddled with trash. Of course you aren't alone this time, there seems to be quite a bit of flaming over nothing.
Normally I tend to ignore this kind of people, but one of his points is valid, and hence I will clarify:
There are more new heroes that made their entrance, thus raising the entry bar. For example, MF, who was like seen everygame, and was preferred over Ashe. Nunu was just an alternative for the almost always banned Amumu. They are just substitutes for better heroes. You need to own those heroes for them to ban him, even if you don't expect to play him. I agree that comment needed to be phrased better. Just bitter about the power creep here.
And cause you totally missed the word "seems". Almost everyone would agree that having a replay system is one of the most important things, so Riot's technical issues implies that long delay in that replay system is not just coincidence. What else would you attribute it to? You tell me. And I assume you know programming, unless you are making fun of that you don't even have the slightest clue about, the quick hack they threw together for obs, unable to chat with your friends ingame, explain those.
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On October 06 2010 02:33 Chrispy wrote:
hahaha who really cares if this game isn't going to carry e-sports to a whole new level. Hon wont do that, Dota didn't do that... if you want to become a progamer start getting really fucking good at SC2 ok.
LoL is really fun and addicting, good enough for me.
My words ^^
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On October 06 2010 02:31 Pandonetho wrote:
And they like to milk the hell out of their skins. Does 4 "legendary" skins really equal SC2? In price yes, in value, I wanna see who actually thinks so.
Does it matter? people will pay for them. and the people who buy them decide their value. i know people who have payed for legendary skins with real life hard-earned money. i know people who have bought skins with their parents money. it costs riot 0 dollars to produce and manufacture a skin and they can get $5+ dollars for them and people are going to keep buying them... so why would they stop milking that? Riot's priority as a company aren't to make some groundbreaking competitive game, it's to make money. F2P + skin sales and champ sales is a great money-making scheme they've got going and i can't fault them for that.
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just so ya kno, the only person here whos bashing of lol's esports division i find any credibility in is redtooths, since he fucking participated in it, and his complaint isnt even with the game structure, but the ppl at riot; for the rest, how long does it take to become lvl 30 and have a decent runepage? and how long does it take to actually become good enough at a game to be 'competitive'? Do you really think that someone who is pre30 and doesnt have runes is really gonna be a candidate for competitive level? Do you really think that the cream of the crop lol player, who intends to dedicate himself to being a top player, is gonna be bothered by the ~1-2 months of 4-5 games per day that it takes to become 30 and get a decent rune loadout?
if you look at the amount of time it takes to get enough stuff in lol to be 'competitive' and look at a similar time that a 'high level' person spends practicing ANY OTHER competitive esport, its basically negligable. The problem with LoL's esports right now is their organization, not their business model
also, i dun remember who said it, but the idea that you 'need' to have runes and masteries to get 'even' with other players assumes that you're being matched up with high level ppl, which they're not, so that argument goes out the window.
if you've got a bone to pick with riot kus they make dumb decisions every once in awhile (or more often mebbe) or because their organization if halfassed or because they are missing some features (wtb replays), thats fine, but theres nothing wrong with the 'grinding'.
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On October 06 2010 01:59 L wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 01:45 spinesheath wrote:I don't understand why people always bring this grinding stuff up. I played like 500-600 games of LoL now, something which I really would expect from anyone who plans on playing it competitively. I dropped a bit of money too because hey, I bought SC2 and don't play it all that much ("yet", as I hope), so why can't I spend less money on a game that I play more? Now I have about 25 champs and a decent selection of runes (most of the major ones) and about 10k IP left over. I could drop that on a new set of runes or 2-5 new champs etc. If I had spent as much as I spent for SC2, I could have bought both champ bundles and would only have to buy a few of the new champs. If they release a new champ bundle soon, you can think of it as an expansion much like Heart of the Swarm - if you are as dedicated as you would be to SC2 for example, that should justify another bunch of RP dropped on those. Grinding does really not seem like a huge issue to me. Well unless you smurf a whole lot and thus spread your IP on multiple accounts. That's your own problem then. On October 06 2010 01:43 Kexx wrote:
If you can't see that LoL isn't flawed in it's design to be a competitive game you're blind.
What other competitive game requires you to spend hours and hours just to get everything you need to be able to play on an even level with other people? Starcraft Broodwar? Duh, just because "mechanics" can't be accumulated like IP it doesn't mean that you don't need to grind to improve them. You can play on an even level with other people in unranked, starting from level 1. That's the day you buy SCBW and log onto battle.net. Now you could enter ICCup and get roflstomped by E ranked players for 3 months straight or you play on bnet for a while until you reach a point where you can at least survive 10 minutes (now you're level 30). The only flaw is that if you come from DotA/HoN you will not suck as much as someone who is new to the genre. But then you spent those countless hours with another game already, kinda unfortunate. Things you've accumulated in IP aren't mechanical skill. Get over yourself.
Did I ever say that IP equals mechanical skill? I would be surprised if I did.
To acquire mechanical skills you have to play a lot. In the process you'll earn some IP, doesn't hurt.
On October 06 2010 02:31 Pandonetho wrote:
I like the game. But I agree with crazeman.
I never stop complaining to my friends how shitty Riot work is. Severs down so many times, can't chat with friends over whisper in game. Friends list sometimes bugs up.
And they like to milk the hell out of their skins. Does 4 "legendary" skins really equal SC2? In price yes, in value, I wanna see who actually thinks so.
You should compare that to WoW pets and stuff. Nobody needs skins.
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On October 06 2010 02:35 cascades wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 02:00 Brees wrote:On October 06 2010 01:33 Jazriel wrote:On October 06 2010 01:30 cascades wrote:
I am pretty sure LoL has no competitive future. Runepages + champion costs are way too high. Gone are the days where 450 ip heroes can be competitive. Not to mention for them to code replay system seems almost impossible. Because we totally didn't see Ashe or Nunu in the WCG RR, Semis, OR the GRAND Finals. Yeah. Didn't happen. And 'cause you're totally the lead programmer for Riot, having a massive migraine over how you don't know how to program a replay system. Yeah. You totally are. I'm bored right now and trolling a bit, but when people talk out of their ass it's just... pathetic. Is this really what TL is for? I was temp banned because I was "insulting," but what about blatant stupidity? Do you even know anything about programming? You got banned because you cant have a civil discussion without flaming. Like now. No one cares what you say to have if its riddled with trash. Of course you aren't alone this time, there seems to be quite a bit of flaming over nothing. Normally I tend to ignore this kind of people, but one of his points is valid, and hence I will clarify: There are more new heroes that made their entrance, thus raising the entry bar. For example, MF, who was like seen everygame, and was preferred over Ashe. Nunu was just an alternative for the almost always banned Amumu. They are just substitutes for better heroes. You need to own those heroes for them to ban him, even if you don't expect to play him. I agree that comment needed to be phrased better. Just bitter about the power creep here. And cause you totally missed the word "seems". Almost everyone would agree that having a replay system is one of the most important things, so Riot's technical issues implies that long delay in that replay system is not just coincidence. What else would you attribute it to? You tell me. And if you know programming, the quick hack they threw together for obs, unable to chat with your friends ingame, explain those.
You have no idea what you're talking about ^^
1) Ashe was always inferior to true DPS like Trist (and prior to nerf, Sivir). Most people suck at this game too much for that to really stand out. MF is actually not seen that terribly often at really competitive play because she's vastly inferior to most heroes in terms of damage output (no DPS skill) and her ult gets nullified by some common melee heroes (Garen, Udyr, WW just to name a few). Ashe brings other things to the table though - she was extremely popular in WCG for those factors.
2) Nunu is not even close to the same sort of hero as Amumu - he works better for a true DPS hero because of blood boil, and that one skill can overcome the deficit of carrying a not-really-DPS (MF/Ashe/etc.) when running smack dab into a true DPS. He also jungles really fast and safe, and has a nice gank (via snowball). You don't "replace" Amumu if he's not there because nothing comes close to a giant AoE stun, except for possibly Galio, but Galio doesn't jungle.
Many teams in WCG didn't carry the so-called OP heroes as per solo queue, because they're not as big of a deal. You build differently and play differently.
FFS Kayle is a 450 IP hero and yet she's probably the most underplayed "OP" hero in the game.
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oh damn.... just noticed how much Garen got shat on.....
damn that nerf to W is pretty huge from early to mid game lol...
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Galio can jungle decently, it's just that he's a better laner.
Can you post a link to the recent patch notes? Maybe I'll be able to play Garen for once (or maybe I wont want too :x)... but seriously in the past maybe 15 ranked games he's been banned all but once.
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Are the patchnotes anywhere to be read?
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On October 06 2010 02:24 crazeman wrote:I'm just curious... how popular is HoN over in SEA when compared to DotA? Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 01:33 Jazriel wrote:On October 06 2010 01:30 cascades wrote:
I am pretty sure LoL has no competitive future. Runepages + champion costs are way too high. Gone are the days where 450 ip heroes can be competitive. Not to mention for them to code replay system seems almost impossible. Because we totally didn't see Ashe or Nunu in the WCG RR, Semis, OR the GRAND Finals. Yeah. Didn't happen. And 'cause you're totally the lead programmer for Riot, having a massive migraine over how you don't know how to program a replay system. Yeah. You totally are. I'm bored right now and trolling a bit, but when people talk out of their ass it's just... pathetic. Is this really what TL is for? I was temp banned because I was "insulting," but what about blatant stupidity? Do you even know anything about programming? You must work for riot or something because it's pretty obvious that the game is programmed like crap. Look at their observer system in WCG. it's a joke, they added a 6th player to each team and gave them a special summoner spell that lets them see the entire map without fog of war and that's pretty much it. It's pretty much a temporary fix/shitty solution to put in observers and that's why they haven't released this feature to the public yet. Also look at the chat system. We still can't receive messages from friends when we're in game. How long has this been going on? How about a replay system for the game? Either riot doesn't care (which isn't good) or these are complex problems that require a lot of re-programming to fix. It's probably a little of both. Riot's target audience is the casual crowd and they are the one that spends the most money on riot points and they probably couldn't care less about replays/observer modes/etc. Riot makes most of their money off skins and new heroes so they can pretty much churn out a random new hero with 5 skins every 2 weeks because it's easier AND more profitable than fixing the other problems.
I could have told you that. The game is haphazardly developed because they never expected it to be as explosively popular as it is today. During the programming phase the game was "slapped together" with rough fixes here and there in order to get everything functional. Their work, like the vast majority of software companies, was sloppy in the beginning because they had no revenue and were being pressured by whoever was funding the initial project (such as investors).
Now that the game is so popular, demand for more "standard" features is skyrocketing and their platform is too much of a rickety bridge to support these features without a major overhaul from the ground up.
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A note to the flamers:
No. I do not work for Riot, this is speculation. However, I am a junior at WPI under their Interactive Media and Game Development program and have worked for multi-million dollar companies in both the beta testing and software development departments so I can recognize shoddy programming when I see it.
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