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On October 06 2010 02:39 gtrsrs wrote:
i ran one (tank) runepage on every champion for months and months, up to 1400+ elo before i started buying other runes
runes don't really mean anything compared to skill and decision making
the importance people place on rune-pages baffles me. do you really need 7 runepages? Is your playstyle with Twisted Fate really so reliant on having ArPen, HP Quints, Mp5/lvl, and AtSpd that if you started a game with ArPen, Movespeed Quints, Mp5/lvl, and Armor/Level that you'd be crippled? Of course not, and if you think that additional 0.105 attack speed is going to give you an edge that the 20 armor can't, you're an idiot. runes are pillows. they're comfortable and you want to find the right pillow for you (or your champ. i'm making a metaphor here), but it's not like you can't fall asleep with a slightly less fluffy pillow if you have to
On October 06 2010 02:39 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 02:31 Pandonetho wrote:
And they like to milk the hell out of their skins. Does 4 "legendary" skins really equal SC2? In price yes, in value, I wanna see who actually thinks so.
Does it matter? people will pay for them. and the people who buy them decide their value. i know people who have payed for legendary skins with real life hard-earned money. i know people who have bought skins with their parents money. it costs riot 0 dollars to produce and manufacture a skin and they can get $5+ dollars for them and people are going to keep buying them... so why would they stop milking that? Riot's priority as a company aren't to make some groundbreaking competitive game, it's to make money. F2P + skin sales and champ sales is a great money-making scheme they've got going and i can't fault them for that.
Now these points are valid, and explain why Riot, and in extension Lol, is doing fine. Now Riot doesn't really need that competitive scene for Lol, we can agree on that. Riot survives just fine without. Issue here is whether Lol can have a truly competitive scene though. I (and others) believe no, not in the foreseeable future (some say never), and I am waiting on arguments that say otherwise.
To the causal, the equipment doesn't matter. Generic runepages serve them fine. I and you know we can just play better instead of blaming on runes. For pros that are going to have to squeeze every advantage they can get? You $10 racket can serve you well, but a tournament pro will shell out for that slightly fluffier racket.
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Most people that are actually going to be competitive in LoL have the means and the time investment to make the runes requirement a nonfactor. It'll be very rare for anyone to come in, be a top-ranking player, and have no runes.
The only issue here is when you're bringing in top-end HoN players to LoL who might already be in the top-X just by virtue of not sucking ass, but it still shouldn't matter for them. Hell, the only time I complain about the lack of runes on my smurf etc. is when I'm playing a specialized hero (via free hero rotation) that needs runes. Otherwise I'm perfectly happy bashing on people and can usually maintain a ~66% win rate.
Edit:
Kayle - 450
Ashe - 450
Jungle Nunu - 450
Janna - 1350
Anything - X
Boom, cheap, great team.
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I personally really like the rune system. It allows for a small degree of customization on your champion which gives you an edge if you play your cards right against another champion, or even a mirror matchup.
Of course not, and if you think that additional 0.105 attack speed is going to give you an edge
It does make a difference actually, especially early game. I've gotten so many kills with the 36% attack speed increase with kayle I start with using runes because I simply outdps certain other champs in the lane and they don't expect it.
Also, there's a huge difference in deciding who's boss in early game laning when an alistar has nearly 1000 HP at level 1 and can dive you at level 3 with his ally to take you out (at least from my experience).
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Runes make a difference, and often a significant one at that. Certain heroes are borderline unplayable or are significantly worse without runes.
But this again doesn't affect hardcore players much because hardcore players will know when they want to play such a specialized hero and will build for it.
Edit:
lol, ^^^^^^
I play AP runes on Alistar, to make his W make 100 damage at level 1, and if you time it right you can zone ppl out of some critical exp (ie. siege weapon) by punting them away :D
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On October 06 2010 03:06 Pandonetho wrote:
It does make a difference actually, especially early game. I've gotten so many kills with the 36% attack speed increase with kayle I start with using runes because I simply outdps certain other champs in the lane and they don't expect it.
no you haven't, no you don't, no you can't, and even if you have, you're only remembering the times you've gotten kills, not the countless games where you just laned and didn't get kills because of your minute extra attack speed.
if you were to count of every single game you've ever played without runes and didn't get kills in lane strictly due to attack speed and no other factors, then count the games that you did, i'm sure the ratio would look something like 1:25
then if you were to count every single time you've died in lane with your attack speed runes and compare it every time you barely got out alive of a gank in a game because of armor/mres runes i'm sure it would look something like 1:25
those minute advantages (as someone above pointed out) only apply when you're on a virtually equal skill plane as your opponent, both playing to your best degree with your best champions. otherwise it's just pillows
in fact i'm so confident that the advantage from runes is purely psychological that i challenge to you do exactly this^ note (without bias) how much runes really help from a numbers standpoint ("so many kills" isn't a number!) and once you've seen why runes are pillows you can report back ^_^
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United States47024 Posts
On October 06 2010 03:15 gtrsrs wrote:
in fact i'm so confident that the advantage from runes is purely psychological that i challenge to you do exactly this^ note (without bias) how much runes really help from a numbers standpoint ("so many kills" isn't a number!) and once you've seen why runes are pillows you can report back ^_^
The difference is even more minute when you consider that tier 1 runes get you about half the benefit of tier 3 runes for next to nothing.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On October 06 2010 03:15 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 03:06 Pandonetho wrote:
It does make a difference actually, especially early game. I've gotten so many kills with the 36% attack speed increase with kayle I start with using runes because I simply outdps certain other champs in the lane and they don't expect it. no you haven't, no you don't, no you can't, and even if you have, you're only remembering the times you've gotten kills, not the countless games where you just laned and didn't get kills because of your minute extra attack speed. if you were to count of every single game you've ever played without runes and didn't get kills in lane strictly due to attack speed and no other factors, then count the games that you did, i'm sure the ratio would look something like 1:25 then if you were to count every single time you've died in lane with your attack speed runes and compare it every time you barely got out alive of a gank in a game because of armor/mres runes i'm sure it would look something like 1:25 those minute advantages (as someone above pointed out) only apply when you're on a virtually equal skill plane as your opponent, both playing to your best degree with your best champions. otherwise it's just pillows in fact i'm so confident that the advantage from runes is purely psychological that i challenge to you do exactly this^ note (without bias) how much runes really help from a numbers standpoint ("so many kills" isn't a number!) and once you've seen why runes are pillows you can report back ^_^
not entirely true, really overpowered runes like armor penetration are a huge huge difference.
I was terrible at ranged DPS champs and I couldnt understand why. I had HP quints, CD and other generic stats.
Then I bought Mp5 yellows and armor pen quints, now I suddenly rape with these heroes? not buying it
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On October 06 2010 03:15 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 03:06 Pandonetho wrote:
It does make a difference actually, especially early game. I've gotten so many kills with the 36% attack speed increase with kayle I start with using runes because I simply outdps certain other champs in the lane and they don't expect it. no you haven't, no you don't, no you can't, and even if you have, you're only remembering the times you've gotten kills, not the countless games where you just laned and didn't get kills because of your minute extra attack speed. if you were to count of every single game you've ever played without runes and didn't get kills in lane strictly due to attack speed and no other factors, then count the games that you did, i'm sure the ratio would look something like 1:25 then if you were to count every single time you've died in lane with your attack speed runes and compare it every time you barely got out alive of a gank in a game because of armor/mres runes i'm sure it would look something like 1:25 those minute advantages (as someone above pointed out) only apply when you're on a virtually equal skill plane as your opponent, both playing to your best degree with your best champions. otherwise it's just pillows in fact i'm so confident that the advantage from runes is purely psychological that i challenge to you do exactly this^ note (without bias) how much runes really help from a numbers standpoint ("so many kills" isn't a number!) and once you've seen why runes are pillows you can report back ^_^
I'm going to disagree completely. Being a starcraft player, any single little advantage helps in the long run.
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On October 06 2010 03:15 gtrsrs wrote:
<snip>
I, in all my newbie-ness, when running 0 runes, cannot take on EzPz's MF with my crappy Mordekaiser.
I, in all my newbie-ness, when running my support page (TROLL), demolish EzPz's MF with my crappy Mordekaiser.
A good Mordekaiser not only demolishes EzPz's MF, takes advantage of the advantage afforded by runes and essentially takes MF out of the first 20 minutes of the game.
The advantages on specialized heroes is crazy.
Hint: my support (TROLL) page is full flat armor and flat mr glyphs. MF can't even shoot through Mord's shield, lol.
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As someone who likes to play a lot of jungle characters, I can certainly attest that those minute differences often matter quite a bit.
Probably doesn't matter as much if you're laning, though.
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On October 06 2010 03:20 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2010 03:15 gtrsrs wrote:On October 06 2010 03:06 Pandonetho wrote:
It does make a difference actually, especially early game. I've gotten so many kills with the 36% attack speed increase with kayle I start with using runes because I simply outdps certain other champs in the lane and they don't expect it. no you haven't, no you don't, no you can't, and even if you have, you're only remembering the times you've gotten kills, not the countless games where you just laned and didn't get kills because of your minute extra attack speed. if you were to count of every single game you've ever played without runes and didn't get kills in lane strictly due to attack speed and no other factors, then count the games that you did, i'm sure the ratio would look something like 1:25 then if you were to count every single time you've died in lane with your attack speed runes and compare it every time you barely got out alive of a gank in a game because of armor/mres runes i'm sure it would look something like 1:25 those minute advantages (as someone above pointed out) only apply when you're on a virtually equal skill plane as your opponent, both playing to your best degree with your best champions. otherwise it's just pillows in fact i'm so confident that the advantage from runes is purely psychological that i challenge to you do exactly this^ note (without bias) how much runes really help from a numbers standpoint ("so many kills" isn't a number!) and once you've seen why runes are pillows you can report back ^_^ not entirely true, really overpowered runes like armor penetration are a huge huge difference. I was terrible at ranged DPS champs and I couldnt understand why. I had HP quints, CD and other generic stats. Then I bought Mp5 yellows and armor pen quints, now I suddenly rape with these heroes? not buying it
its because ur previous losses brought you down to a low enough elo that you can start raping face
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On October 06 2010 02:30 mikku wrote:
Does anyone have an alternate download for these that isn't this shitcash site that requires I enter my email and do a survey?
I checked a few threads and found a direct link: http://silviudutu.webs.com/LoL Switch Servers.rar
You have to use the code to log onto the servers and chat seems borked, but I was able to play.
Man, never realized how much masteries/runes make a difference. Mainly movement speed and mana regen. Level 1 games are so trash, you can dominate all you want, but you have the same newbs on your team too.
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Want more examples?
We (my whole ranked team) laugh at Taric that come into lane with 26 armor.
But when Taric rolls into the lane with 79 armor we cry.
Most Sonas are squishy as hell and die.
My Sona ROFLs at Xin/Garen duo lane, tanks them at level 1, and wins the lane immediately.
We've noticed (Shake and I) that without MPen runes and SoS Kassadin loses a lot of lanes, such as vs Nidalee, which actually follows what redtooth noticed. However because I (and it appears I'm in the minority >_>) run MPen runes I seem to jack up heroes that I shouldn't really.
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United States37500 Posts
Runes matter a ton. You've got to be joking to say otherwise. Try to jungle without runes. Try to play a carry without runes against another carry at mid. Playing without runes is a huge disadvantage.
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no you haven't, no you don't, no you can't, and even if you have, you're only remembering the times you've gotten kills, not the countless games where you just laned and didn't get kills because of your minute extra attack speed.
Well you can say what you like, but I do notice a huge difference in attack speed using attack speed runes.
And how does have another 200 health early game not make a difference? That's more than a ruby crystal.
19 Magic pen? That's 1 pen short from another sorcerer's shoes. That's basically saying you have sorc shoes without the movement at level 1. And once you get sorc shoes you'll have 40 magic pen. Most champions don't even HAVE more than 40-50 magic resist unless they specifically go for magic resist items like a banshee's veil.
CD reduction runes as well, allow you to get 1 CD reduction item and be at 40% CD reduction without golem. I play Kassadin a lot and this is especially important because I rely on my level 3 Rift Walk on being at a 2.4 second CD, without the need for getting TWO CD reduction items.
So yes, runes do make a difference. A noticeable one.
And crit damage runes? How is having another 50% in crit damage with runes not significant? With an infinity edge you'll have 300% crit damage, instead of just 200% or 250%.
Someone who's packing 300 damage will do 750 damage crits with an infinity edge. With 50% more crit damage runes, that damage is upped to 900. Are you saying an additional 150 damage is not significant?
I'm not saying runes make or break a champion, and yes skills do matter more than runes. But when you're tryharding in games, runes do make a big difference and you're ignorant to deny it.
But since you seem to be immovable in your opinion we can agree to just disagree.
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and runes make a significant difference when youre jungling. if you want to see the difference, jungle with and without the (right) runes
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runes matter a whole lot, but that's not at all the reason why LoL isn't competitive. no high-level player is blaming lack of competitiveness on the business model, that's just silly.
I mean, you need like $500 for a working computer to play SC2 and nobody says that prevents PC games from being competitive. the business model is really a non-factor.
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Have to say I am a bit angered by the player given 450IP/RP to play LoL when I have helped create teams and put together players for the past year.. attempting to build the LoL competitive scene, which grows with every big tournament.. then dies right after  I have no doubt this Milkfat guy will be one of the better players because lets face it, there aren't many great players around..
The ones that look promising tend to leave and the ones who stick around are forced to carry a teammate or two, which gets old.. and most people are getting fed up with the lack of competition and lack of player base. Check Game Battles, 14 teams 7 of which have enough players to play.. and to be nice, most of those teams are not so good.
My point being, giving a few players 450IP/RP to switch games is a slap in the face to the veterans, and is a band-aid fix at best. It will take those players a month+ to build the account, and there is a slim chance that they will stick around. Why not work with the scene they have? I was actually excited about the price model of this game for one reason. The incentives to play cost RIOT next to nothing to give away! What does this mean? Go hog wild crazy with it. Why not give RP to the top 15 players on each ladder every week? Why not give players that do well in tournaments enormous amounts of RP just for sticking together? Is there a reason 3rd place at WCG NA got 30$ worth of RIOT points? It doesn't cost RIOT anything to give that stuff out..
RIOT has so much potential in this game, and it is definitely getting annoying seeing them flounder around. I am still mad about WCG NA disqualifying reginaid, finkill, and theoddone. Finkill quit a day later, and most of Knaan's team is gone as well as a few other teams. Not only that but I was told that TheOddOne could be easily replaced by one of my substitutes, and it wouldn't hurt my team's chances of winning by that much. It took a lot of self restraint not to explode at Pendragon for being so ignorant of his competitive community. It is really hard to justify practicing and staying together to compete in competitive LoL when we are treated as disposable and replaceable pawns in RIOTs PR game.
Just look at how RIOT reacts to the forums. Forums explode at HackedShotGG, 3 players banned from WCG. Forums explode at Shurelia's Jungle Teemo, apology post from Shurelia the next day. MegaZero posts his disappointment and has his Council removed, he apologizes and the status is returned. Phreak's commentary causes the forums to get angry, so he apologizes for being unprofessional at times. RIOT does do quite a few good things for the general community, and tries their best to appease them.. I just don't see why they are so blind of their frighteningly tiny competitive community.
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On October 06 2010 02:52 Southlight wrote:
Most people that are actually going to be competitive in LoL have the means and the time investment to make the runes requirement a nonfactor. It'll be very rare for anyone to come in, be a top-ranking player, and have no runes.
The only issue here is when you're bringing in top-end HoN players to LoL who might already be in the top-X just by virtue of not sucking ass, but it still shouldn't matter for them. Hell, the only time I complain about the lack of runes on my smurf etc. is when I'm playing a specialized hero (via free hero rotation) that needs runes. Otherwise I'm perfectly happy bashing on people and can usually maintain a ~66% win rate.
Edit:
Kayle - 450
Ashe - 450
Jungle Nunu - 450
Janna - 1350
Anything - X
Boom, cheap, great team.
Amumu raises his tiny bandaged hand with "1350 written on it" and begins to cry *whyyy noot meeeee (((((*
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On October 05 2010 19:39 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2010 19:30 Kaniol wrote:
I'd like to know some good AD Ez build as well... diva's build may not be optimal but is super fun. sort of needs a cooperative jungler to consistently give you red but when it happens you snowball really well. he's not the best ezreal but he definitely wasn't bad at it and it was a distinctively fun style. 15/0/15 ignite/flash aPen/mp5/mp5/aPen R>Q>E>W (don't skill W until late) dorans, boots of mobility, dorans, brutalizer, BT, GA
Damn, thats my exact build for him.
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EPT
