Highlights from the first regular season game between the two teams where Kobe played (he missed the second). In the clips, you'll often see Kobe guarding Rondo, even at the very beginning when Ray is in (who is incidentally being guarded by Fisher).
Again, it's not guaranteed that Kobe will guard Rondo and Fisher will guard Ray, but all signs point to it as the initial setup. I don't see why you feel that Rondo would dominate Kobe, considering that he has not really done so in the past. Kobe does a pretty good job of giving Rondo just enough space to prevent his drives, but not too much as to make things too easy on him. It also shouldn't tire Kobe out as Rondo is more of a facilitator than a scorer, and he'll spend less energy preventing Rondo drives and passes than he would if he had to chase Ray through screens and around the perimeter. As for Fisher guarding Ray, it's not ideal, but it's a better alternative to him guarding Rondo and forcing Kobe to chase Ray around.
On June 03 2010 04:04 Judicator wrote: Allen runs a lot out his shots out of that screen system though doesn't he? I mean yes he can take it to the rim on occasion but he doesn't really create his shot as much as that offense does.
If he is 5 inches taller than his defender, he will simply either catch and release over top of him, get good post position, or get it in the triple threat / his location of choice create some space and elevate. If Kobe is guarding him, Kobe is 1 inch taller and is able to help defend onto rondo if allen decides to run him off a million screens.
Albeit if Shannon Brown is guard Allen maybe the size will bother him enough he wont be able to just elevate, but cmon, this is fucking ray allen, he is a gangster of manner, Brown is really no match mentally compared to him.
You bring up some valid points, and i agree thats definitely going to be Kobe's job when Tony Allen comes into the game, however you used a regular season game as an example, and no offense but you can argue that the Boston Celtics had some of the worst chemistry, and their talent is the only reason they had such a tremendous start. That game against the lakers was actually the end of the celtics actually playing decent, and they still didnt have as compact of a team as they do now. Before they used to run a lot more minutes for Eddie House, and a lot less minutes for Rasheed, the Lakers also played Vujachick a good amount, and Shannon Brown wasnt as dynamic as he became later in the year.
The way i see it, you can put Kobe on Rondo, who has a quickness advantage over him, and will make him work on defense, or you can put him on Ray, and let him double rondo whenever possible, or just deny Ray because he is taller, faster, and lets admit it, the best all around player in this series.
On June 02 2010 16:55 XaI)CyRiC wrote: Lastly, I did not misread what you said earlier. Your mistake was assuming that my post was intended to directly respond to your post, when it was not. The point of my post was to express my opinion on the topic, not to necessarily counter yours. I actually agree with some of what you say, although I do believe that you are oversimplifying things as well.
It certainly seemed as if you did. I was the only one at that time making the argument, and you responded with your post just afterwards. I don't know who else you could have been responding to.
I actually agree with some of what you say, although I do believe that you are oversimplifying things as well
Like I said before it's not an oversimplification at all. It's a fact that what Ace said is not true. There's a lot of twisting what I said, but let's be exact. What I did was challenge Ace's argument that backing off will make it easier for the player to blow by you. He's the one who made the blanket statement, not me. And even more, his blanket statement was the exact opposite of the true generalization that could be made. That being that when you back off someone, they are less likely to be able to blow by you.
Ace is the one that provided the extremely controversial, unusual and counterintuitive idea. That is where challenges should be directed.
If that is your intention, then quite a few people have already explained why backing off of someone does not always make it harder for them to blow by you.
If every one were healthy, I would predict Celtics in 6 games. Since I am not sure about the health of Rondo or Bynum I will stick with Celtics in 6, but with much less confidence.
On June 03 2010 04:17 Lefnui wrote: It certainly seemed as if you did. I was the only one at that time making the argument, and you responded with your post just afterwards. I don't know who else you could have been responding to.
Again, I was expressing my own opinion on the issue, not necessarily responding to any particular post.
Like I said before it's not an oversimplification at all. It's a fact that what Ace said is not true. There's a lot of twisting what I said, but let's be exact. What I did was challenge Ace's argument that backing off will make it easier for the player to blow by you. He's the one who made the blanket statement, not me. And even more, his blanket statement was the exact opposite of the true generalization that could be made. That being that when you back off someone, they are less likely to be able to blow by you.
Ace is the one that provided the extremely controversial, unusual and counterintuitive idea. That is where challenges should be directed.
Going back over the posts, it appears that you need to reread what was said. You've claimed in recent posts that your argument is against the general concept that giving a player space prevents them from driving, and that it's not about how Rondo should be guarded, but that's where this all started. It began with you and Ace arguing about how detrimental Rondo's inability/unwillingness to take perimeter shots was to the Celtics. You made the argument that it was a huge detriment because his defender can just give him space and take away any chance of penetration. In fact, you state that a player can't get past a defender who gives them a ton of room, no matter how good at driving they are. That's about as unequivocal and as blanket as it gets.
Ace then countered by stating that Rondo had demonstrated that you can't guard him by giving him a lot of space in the series against the Cavs where he consistently blew by defenders who gave him space by using that space to build up some speed, or he'd simply sit back and quarterback the Celtics' offense unimpeded and hurt the Cavs a lot that way. Basically, he pointed out that Rondo is an exception to the general rule you pointed out.
You then proceed to make a very inflammatory post accusing Ace of knowing nothing and appearing to have never played basketball before in his life, amongst a slew of other completely unnecessary and insulting comments. You question how a player could possibly be beaten off the dribble when given space by his defender, and finish with another comment about how that general concept should be applied to Rondo since he can't shoot. Again, your position was that giving a player space makes it almost impossible for a player to be blown by, without exception.
Ace then responds to another post that took your position on the issue and pointed out that guarding a player up close can be effective in preventing dribble penetration if done correctly and if the personnel are right, and states that giving a player space doesn't automatically mean you won't get blown by. Again, he was pointing out that while giving a player space generally prevents getting blown by, it doesn't always, and not against all players. No blanket statement, he's poking holes in yours. He does however add a stupid challenge to play you basketball in person.
You respond with more insults, and then mischaracterize Ace's position as giving a player space makes it easier for them to blow by you. That was never argued by Ace, but you did set up a nice strawman. You later on challenge him to find any credible source or any person at all who will agree with Ace that "Defenders playing back on him get blown by." The "him" could only have referred to Rondo, and Ace had already pointed to the Cleveland series as proof that it was true. In fact, a few other people cited to NBA analysts who argued the same thing.
I could go on, but I believe the point has been made.
And none of those explanations have made sense.
Correction. None of those explanations made sense to you. That doesn't invalidate them or make you correct.
On June 03 2010 03:56 Holcan wrote: J.J. Redick is 6'4 only 1 inch shorter than Ray, and a premium SG defender, Fisher is 4 inches shorter, and known for taking charges on defense, not something overly effective vs shooting guards. Ray will be able to raise up right over him, wont even have to run around screens with this sort of advantage.
Like i said, Rondo will be guarded by Kobe, at some point, but thats most likely when Ray Allen takes a breather and Tony Allen comes in, and like i said Kobe is an exceptional HELP defender, so he will most likely try to double rondo rather than running off screens, if he can.
Also you cannot give someone like Rondo the confidence of immediately placing Kobe onto him, first of all Rondo would still be able to dominate Kobe, just like Kobe will be able to dominate Ray and Paul on the other end, so why tire Kobe out by placing him on the hardest matchup? It seems illogical to ask your best player to take the task on both ends when you already have depth at the guard position able to foul up. Imo, if you see Kobe guarding Rondo its because Brown or Farmar are (most likely brown who isnt as dominated in size) is guarding Ray Allen.
I mean, id rather have rondo have a triple double than ray allen start hitting three, but its really pick your poison and hope its not effective that day.
I nearly threw up at the thought of Rondo having a triple double. *gags
If Kobe sustains his high level of play and wins this fifth ring, where would you place him in the all-time great list? Top ten? Top five? Second-best guard ever, passing Magic and just behind Jordan?
somebody should put a straight jacket on this guy!
Was this an old school game? Looks like the game NBA Street...other than that pretty wack
Oh dude it beats nba street by a couple of light years. And fyi each light year is just under 10 trillion miles, to be exact it's 9,460,730,472,580.8 km. So if its a couple of light years you times that number by 3. Now do you know how good this game is?
I understand now how much better NBA JAM is compared to NBA Street...But the value of NBA Street is -1..so naturally "9,460,730,472,580.8" multiplied by 3, multiplied again by -1 just makes it more worst. Lol...
somebody should put a straight jacket on this guy!
Was this an old school game? Looks like the game NBA Street...other than that pretty wack
Oh jesus... I hope you're playing with me.
EDIT: Just to make myself feel older, here were the other 2 best basketball games in the 90s (and 2000s)
OMG Was watching the Youtube video of NBA JAM AND DIVAC!!! I SEE DIVAC!!! LOL I wasn't even born when Divac entered the Nba. Hope that doesn't make you feel any older. And you Lakers fan better go Thank Divac RIGHT NOW because he was traded for the rights to Kobe.
Man that opening sequence for Nba Live 96 took 4ever..I almost fell asleep. No comment for Nba 95...that was just sad ___________________________________________________________________
On notes about the Finals...GO CELTICS. I WANT TO SEE KOBE CRY. And whats with this bickering about whos guarding who. Kobe will guard Rondo and Fisher will guard Ray. If Lakers start Fisher on Rondo then by the end of that quarter, you will see Kobe guarding Rondo.
God damn Steve Nash can do no wrong. I wish they'd build the Wade, LeBron, Bosh dream team around Nash so he could get a ring. I don't care about those other scum bags, but I want Nash to have one so bad!
On June 03 2010 11:22 tonight wrote: God damn Steve Nash can do no wrong. I wish they'd build the Wade, LeBron, Bosh dream team around Nash so he could get a ring. I don't care about those other scum bags, but I want Nash to have one so bad!
On June 03 2010 05:53 OneOther wrote: If Kobe sustains his high level of play and wins this fifth ring, where would you place him in the all-time great list? Top ten? Top five? Second-best guard ever, passing Magic and just behind Jordan?
Second best scoring guard ever, sure. I think he is already there actually.
Magic and Oscar R. are incredibly complete players who I would not know how to compare with Jordan/Kobe - it's apples and bananas.
EPT
Too bad they lost to the Lakers 
