EPT[Mahjong]Tenhou Thread - Page 41
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On April 02 2015 04:39 spinesheath wrote: It really sounds like you have the wrong attitude. You actually seem to do well currently, getting all those 1st and 2nd places. I'd be really happy about two 2nd places in a row. You seem dissatisfied. Certainly, currently I'm at 1-5-2-0. But you have to remember, this is the first lobby, I only play against dan half the time. Well, 1st place percentage down to 3.54 now -_- | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
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29 fps
United States5722 Posts
The huge hit from being 4th place also contributes to the rage, but that scoring system is somewhat understandable. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
Fortunately(?) when I get last place I've always retrospectively identified bunch of detrimental mistakes, so I end up furious at myself instead of RNG. It's not really healthy to blame bad luck for all the poor performances anyhow, even if it might be true in some cases. | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
It also took me till 4kyu to reach 1700+ -.- /edit: Fuuuck, messed up getting a daisangen because I had auto-win enabled. I mean, I pon'ed both other dragon but still had two outs (both in the wall) in that regard (next to all the other outs which I sadly got one from). I'm bad. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe hong kong mahjong has a furiten rule. While that rule doesn't really prevent people from scoring big with dora, it is what lets you avoid last place reliably. That's also why you only get punished for placing last on tenhou. Getting first place requires luck. Avoiding last place much less so. I find that furiten together with all those dora and riichi creates a very interesting setup where you always have to be very careful, but at the same time can't just stop pressuring your opponents. On April 03 2015 03:04 Lucumo wrote: Lol, guy in last place with barely any points riichi'ed with one out (I have two out of three) and he tsumo's that one within one round. Something like this is just ridiculous. He still was last even with 12k gain (I stayed first and won the final round anyway). It also took me till 4kyu to reach 1700+ -.- He channeled his inner Hisa Takei. And no, that's not ridiculous (not necessarily at least). It happens. Your rating is inflated in the lower ranks. It'll likely go down once you start playing people of similar skill level. I had a much higher rating shortly after switching to the lower dan room than now too, and I definitely improved since then. | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
On April 03 2015 03:19 spinesheath wrote: He channeled his inner Hisa Takei. And no, that's not ridiculous (not necessarily at least). It happens. Your rating is inflated in the lower ranks. It'll likely go down once you start playing people of similar skill level. I had a much higher rating shortly after switching to the lower dan room than now too, and I definitely improved since then. To be fair, there were quite some tiles left + there was also the chance the other opponents had them. Yep, I know. That's why I'm complaining it took this long. When I entered the dan ranks with my first, now deleted, account, I had close to 1800. | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gxnmqxS.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dIlPLj6.png) Guy on my left never dropped any useful tiles but everyone else did. I won the round afterwards but still only got 3rd in the end because the guy on my right feeded into them hardcore. So the other two were both 1500 in the lead. But finallly I'm not playing with too many dan guys anymore. /edit: What's also annoying. When you have east wind and get tsumo'ed by another player. Was in the lead, final round, he did that after one turn (like always -.-) and I drop below 30k...in the end, 3rd place again. I didn't even lose a single round. /edit2: Don't lose rounds and win maybe one for 8k or less and you end up like this, sigh. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nGbqzK2.png) And well, my rating has taken a dive. I still have mostly wins and my 4th place ratio is at .128, but... | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
After those downs, I went up again, to around 1750, then a bit down due to 3rd place. Did something else for a while and then this game: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5harSf7.png) First one ever for me. My initial hand was pretty good, I had two rather quick pons and then some lucky draws and wow. This is definitely my luckiest hand ever. Hm, after you get good results, I always get the feeling that you get worse tiles. Two times 3rd in a row now. Also, it has logged 40 games now (no idea where those before those disappeared though). 14-9-13-4 Or since I use screenshots anyway: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OI0mUlk.png) | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
I randomly dealt a 1s into a dealer's shou suu shii on turn 7 today and got close to ending up 4th in another match after one of my opponents survived a direct yakuman hit. I was tenpai in the last hand and drew the tile that would have dropped me to 4th place had I discarded it in order to stay tenpai (and have a shot at 2nd). Also 3 4th places today anyways. | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
Ouch, that's harsh. Those early wins from other players are awful when they hit you. The worst is when people aren't declaring riichi (and have a fully concealed hand) and you can't make out what they are going for. Lost 12k and 16k today to these kinda things which always dropped me down to third place. Apart from those it's mostly fine though. I mean, all my third places pretty much come from those hits or the times when I can't get any hand all match long...like, when you reach two tenpais in two whole matches. Just look at the streak I posted above. It was the case there for several matches in a row. And yep, playing safe is king...though, I sometimes tend to ignore it. I would categorize myself as a pretty aggressive player, but I'm at least not dumb enough to run into open fire. | ||
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JSH
United States4109 Posts
This thread is making me want to play for some reason Shouldn't it turn me off huehue I feel like tenhou has too many numbers x( if it didn't keep those stats (or show them so directly) I might be less stressed lol | ||
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Rhaegar99
Australia1190 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On April 05 2015 13:51 Rhaegar99 wrote: A lot of these scenarios are very standard in mahjong. In any draw based game, there is always going to be some sort of element of luck involved, whether it be games like magic, hearthstone, or poker. You don't want to be too result orientated and should focus on playing a solid game. You also do not want to get too attached with your "deal in" rate. A good player will have a relatively low rate, but when it gets too low, it show that you are not taking appropriate risks to get the most value out of your hands. Don't get me wrong though, playing a defensive strategy is still very viable in the lower lobby, but aggressive is the way to go in the upper lobby. Keep it up the results and you might be there very soon. You really should elaborate on the aggressive style. | ||
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Rhaegar99
Australia1190 Posts
Not dealing in does not mean you are winning more. It means your are losing less. To win more, you need to win more. You need to be aggressive. You need to be the one dictating the flow of the game. Be less greedy and play hands that have a higher chance of winning. Try and play tanyao hands when you have gapped connectors/doubles. When someone opens their hand and you have a decent pinfu hand, consider playing a tanyao if given the opportunity. When multiple doras have been discarded, consider playing into their ippatsu riichi. Riichi those 1 tile draws where appropriate. If your coming last, do something about it now and not later. Play your hands as though you won't be getting any easy mangan hands. Probably not a good explanation its the best I can do for now. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On April 02 2015 23:53 29 fps wrote: one of the reasons why i don't like the game as much as i used to is because the lucky BS hurts. In Hong Kong MJ (or most Chinese styles, I think), the tier scoring system makes it so that small hands don't hurt very much, even if people win with them quickly and frequently. In Japanese mj, though, someone can win before the 5th turn with a huge hand (mangan) that you have no idea about (since they're not showing anything; sometimes they dont even need to riichi). And it happens a little too often for my liking. I know that means players must take advantage of the times when that DOESN'T happen and play optimally then. But I just can't get over this part of the game. I guess you could say that the doras are the reasons for these powerful hands that can be completed quickly. It's still a great, interesting game overall, but it's starting to get irritating. The huge hit from being 4th place also contributes to the rage, but that scoring system is somewhat understandable. One thing I've done to mitigate this is to avoid playing with aka Dora (red fives). This already eliminates super lame Mangan hands :D Edit: Hugely agree with Rhaegar. Not playing overly safe is the most delicate thing in mahjong riichi and also the one that makes the game interesting. Once you feel comfortable with defense that doesn't lead anywhere other than "not losing", the next step is to be aggressive and bold while protecting yourself from most big plays. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
http://justanotherjapanesemahjongblog.blogspot.de/2012/01/toitsu-theory-2.html The first hand there and the comment on it caught my attention: 34789m 11337p 37s ww (notice it's 14 tiles) From the article: Discarding the isolated pin of 7 pin, 3 sou or 7 sou are common beginner discards. If it were me, I would bravely discard 1 pin or 3 pin. Actually when it comes to effective tile loss, the loss of discarding 3 pin will only be the other two 3 pin. However if you discard 3 sou, the loss will be 124 sou, a total of 12 tiles. In a situation with a lack of mentsu, relying on the toitsu in your hand to complete your hand will often result in failure. Here's why I find that interesting: Currently this hand needs to draw 3 tiles to be completed, for example 2m, 1p and 3p. If you discard the 1p or 3p, you will need 4 tiles. To compensate, you'll have 10 extra tiles you can draw and potentially a much better shape. So the question is: When are discards like 3p better than discards like 3s? How much do you need to increase your chance to draw a useful tile to make it worth discarding a useful tile? | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Rhaegar99
Australia1190 Posts
On April 07 2015 04:45 spinesheath wrote: I just looked into a couple of my bookmarks to see if there were any new articles and saw this again (not new): http://justanotherjapanesemahjongblog.blogspot.de/2012/01/toitsu-theory-2.html The first hand there and the comment on it caught my attention: 34789m 11337p 37s ww (notice it's 14 tiles) From the article: Here's why I find that interesting: Currently this hand needs to draw 3 tiles to be completed, for example 2m, 1p and 3p. If you discard the 1p or 3p, you will need 4 tiles. To compensate, you'll have 10 extra tiles you can draw and potentially a much better shape. So the question is: When are discards like 3p better than discards like 3s? How much do you need to increase your chance to draw a useful tile to make it worth discarding a useful tile? In a closed hand where you have no yakuhai, you generally don't want more than two pairs in your hand unless your going for a toitoi/chiitoitsu. I think its very easy to see why this is the case if you look through your past games. Its very hard to draw a set and even if you do, your riichi hand will be pretty terrible. Other scenarios are maybe when your 1-shanten and you need to take some risks? or your 3p are doras? Its very hard to think of any scenarios where you would prefer the toitsu shape. | ||
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