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On April 14 2010 03:01 Ota Solgryn wrote:
I have been playing Shaco for quite some games but I have a huge "?" above my head after each game.
I am pretty good at early mid game, last 10 games I've had like 6-2 at worst and 10-0 at best. So I own very good, are present in all lanes at help gang.
But even with this ownage, my team somehow manage to lose in the late game. And I feel it is because of me, I get completely useless and don't know what to do. So a few hints would really help.
Like am I supposed to push towers away from my team, or am I supposed to take "hopefully" low hp heros in 5v5 fights (which in turn depends on my team being really good as they have to fight 4v5 until in jump in. I just feel useless in the 5v5 fights. Dunno why really. haha i think many of us had our selfish shaco days. i know i did. i had like a 15-1 average kdr with ap shaco (before nerf) for a while but only 50% win rate and was always wondering why. its because shaco's team utility (even with AP) is very low after laning stages.
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On April 14 2010 03:06 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2010 03:01 Ota Solgryn wrote:
I have been playing Shaco for quite some games but I have a huge "?" above my head after each game.
I am pretty good at early mid game, last 10 games I've had like 6-2 at worst and 10-0 at best. So I own very good, are present in all lanes at help gang.
But even with this ownage, my team somehow manage to lose in the late game. And I feel it is because of me, I get completely useless and don't know what to do. So a few hints would really help.
Like am I supposed to push towers away from my team, or am I supposed to take "hopefully" low hp heros in 5v5 fights (which in turn depends on my team being really good as they have to fight 4v5 until in jump in. I just feel useless in the 5v5 fights. Dunno why really. Hahah, man I was going over this sort of thing a while ago XD Shaco is a liability in 5v5 teamfights; you have to REALLY be owning with him or your team has to be prepared to fight 4v5/4v4. If you build AP you can kinda teamfight, because you're relatively fast-CD single-spell nuker (well, JitB helps a bit, too), but either way you're looking to end the game in about 25 minutes, either by ganking them to the point where they can't catch up, or by keeping map control and holding them down for your hard carry to farm up and dominate. Late-game, though, either you're nuking like hell with Shiv, or you're solo-pushing and forcing their team to fight 4v4. This obviously means your team has to have been prepared beforehand to fight 4v4/4v5, which means your team will not have a usual hero lineup. I think I mentioned something like two mass-disable tanks are needed to dominate a 4v4. Your whole job late-game is to backdoor and be a nuisance about ending the game via tower-kills. If you can force someone to stop you backdooring, then rush across the map to crunch their team 5v4 via superior mobility, that's ideal.
Thx.. good advise. I can see how the backdooring pushing forces at least a 4v4.
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I'm actually considering running Tele-Cleanse on Mundo to be like a bulkier Shaco who can actually survive teamfights. I give up my only CC, but I gain super backdooring power :D
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I'm not 100% sure but I think Roku (top 100 in December list) was running Cleanse/Ghost against us. I'm pretty sure he had Cleanse, not 100% sure about the other.
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I'm 90% certain he was running Ghost. oh god that game was awful.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
yes roku uses ghost/cleanse, but then again he usually gets a solo lane so I wouldn't try to imitate his mundo too much.
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I basically play Roku's Mundo, only sometimes I get Aegis of the Legion before Infinity Edge (if no one else buys it) or stop with the DPS items after Starks because our team doesn't have a tank or enough CC.
I'm trying to get used to Ghost over Exhaust; it certainly seems to be better the higher I get (when ranged DPS players start getting too smart to follow a half-health Mundo into brush). The only reason I'd take port is for more pushing. I'll have to try it out.
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Incidentally, some time ago Brees mentioned seeing Roku's Mundo.
I did, and I wasn't particularly impressed; he got solo mid, he did fine (which I guess is praiseworthy? maybe? except TF isn't really gonna kill him, so...), and won because our Jax and TF went after Soraka during the crucial teamfight :x Definitely didn't change my belief that Mundo's not really that good. I'm not gonna deny Roku played him well, but it wasn't invoking of an "OH MAN HE'S SO GOOD" reaction. Mundo + Soraka the hero combo, on the other hand, controlled by good players is vicious against a poorly coordinated team.
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I had the same impressions from that game. We kept leaving Mundo at like 5 HP and then getting roflstomped by him. Was that game just you me and Turkey or did we have a 5 man?
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I think it was five-man. Turkey Fiddle, Passion Jax, Mog TF, Baikin Blitz, me Malph.
The problem was that for the first two big fights only Baikin and I hit Roku, which leaves him at low hp but our lack of sustained damage = can't actually take him down. Then Jax would chase Soraka out of the fight, Fiddle would ult some random stuff, and you get caught in the middle. Bad coordination ;p If Jax went after Mundo we would have rolled that game, which means......
Mundo did not impress Southlight.
Edit:
But Passion did indeed let us down. NOT PASSIONATE ENOUGH.
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iirc we were flustered and had me, Passion and Baikin all get Executioner's Calling too XD. That probably hurt a lot.
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The ECs weren't really a problem; it just means we needed to FF the Mundo. I called for ECs to take the Mundo down cuz he was solo mid and pretty much their only source of damage, and we should have and would have been able to, even through Soraka/Mundo/Shen. We just didn't FF until way too late.
It was close anyways for the next 10 minutes, and yeah we were probably a bit flustered, maybe too cocky because we were ahead by so much (against everyone BUT Roku). Passion's lack of melee DPS experience showed, too, particularly against a healer, heh.
Anyways, not bitchin', the two of them (Shurelia and Roku) played a good game, but Mundo the hero did not impress me all that much. I suppose as a solo mid melee DPSer Mundo's the only viable option, but it wasn't something that made me go OMG SO GOOD or anything. Was more an "okay Mundo can flatten scrubs" feeling :D <-- I guess which is why we feel ever more dumb for that loss, hah.
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The top 500 ELO for Europe is out, and I'm in it! I'm at a humble 452th place, but I've only recently hit my stride with Warwick, so I hope to be higher next month 
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I'm not in it ç_ç
Tho most of the people I usually play with/against are in the 500 to 400 ranks, so I guess I'm almost there...
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I play too much with my newb friends, I really feel like I belong there but I'm not listed. I'll just play to win this month :p
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
lol played morzas rocking the sunfire kat
against my AP kat l0l kat mania
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Oh yeah, I 100% agree that Mundo is not very good. He's Jax, but without the ability to get in and out of combat, the burst damage, the AoE stun, or the crazy scaling. With his ult, he can outspeed Jax; he's better at laning and does more damage before level 6; he has CC reduction; he has a ranged harassing tool. Other than that, he's totally outclassed.
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On April 14 2010 03:02 Southlight wrote:
Hmm, interesting. I'll have to start checking Shen HP from now on if laning against. That would explain why some Shen hit hard and some don't. Thanks for the tip :D
Depends really. Ki-Strike benefits more from enemy hits than excessive HP stacking, Still, "real" Damageitems give more Damage than being indirect and trying to carry via HP.
I´m curious how people build him now that he had time to settel in. I go 0/21/9 since I´m always on TT and the XP and neutral buff duration seem to bring more than What offense offers.
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I'm trying to find a good DPS build for Ashe, any tips?
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LoL's servers have been pissing me off!
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EPT
