EPTK, now same question for Sc2?
TOO YOUNG
The Elephant in the Room - Page 168
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Hds
France200 Posts
K, now same question for Sc2? TOO YOUNG | ||
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YMCApylons
Taiwan359 Posts
Puma. BW A-league practice partner, without a lot of personal success in BW tournaments. Comes to SC2, proceeds to dominate NASL. Then facepalm as SC2 casters start saying how he "came out of nowhere". He didn't come out of nowhere, he's a currently-active BW pro, so yeah, there's a good chance he'll just destroy all the available SC2 competition. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a farce, but SC2 is young and has a long way to go, and it would be nice if some people could learn a little bit of history before calling the random GSL winner of their choice a "bonjwa". | ||
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raxxxxx
Germany3 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
When SC2 came out it wasn't a blank slate new game people already understood how to play the RTS Starcraft because of BW. They had to figure out new builds but the basic mechanics came from BW. | ||
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Mirror0423
United States175 Posts
Like Bisu, he has high APM, but it's not really head and shoulders above all the other pros. But he seems to be able to use them more efficiently/time it better so things actually happen SIMULTANEOUSLY instead of in quick succession. Or things seems to always be at the right place at the right time (at least in his PvZ) I can't tell you what games to look at cause i've seen SO many of his games, but there are countless games where when bisu used his shuttle to harass (so it's on the other side of the map relative to his main base), he picks up his DTs and is sending it to the zerg's 3rd or 4th of whatever, it always seems to line up perfectly with when his corsairs get there. And no, not every toss can do this. Stork's had interview where he talked about how he tried to copy things like that from bisu, and he can't. His shuttle will get there 3~4~5 sec eariler, or his sairs would be there earlier. It doesn't seem like a big deal, but if the shuttle's there 5 secs earlier that's 5 secs of vulnerability on his shuttle, or if his sair's there 5 sec eariler (assuming 2 DTs in the shuttle) that's a more drones he could've killed. Bisu has an unprecedented ability to shave off times like that that isn't present in any other (even other S class broodwar players). Now sorry if i sounded like a bisu fanboy (i actually like stork better than bisu, but i also believe in giving credit where credit is due). Jaedong's micromanagement is(or at least used to be) impeccable. I remember a few instances where he has a group of mutas and he picks off archons and sairs at the same time using the slight advantage in range that the muta has. Can SC2 pros do this? yeah sure, for maybe 3~4 secs, but jaedong is able to keep that up, AND keep up his macro. Work ethics wise, if you haven't kept up with BW scene I feel it's unfair for you to comment on this particular issue. There have been stories/articles on how ridiculous some of these S class players practice (except stork when he's playing WoW or his cell phone app games, and sometimes bisu as well). These are players that are able to sit and play the game for HOURS with minimal breaks, and they've also perfected their regiment to maximize their efficiency. Some players are able to sit and grind out 12 games, and watch the replay of those 12 games, and that's their most efficeint way to practice/learn, while other players are more prone to 3 games at a time. And that's just with replay + game play. If you add in replays of opponents, reasearching builds, and a list of other things that a pro player does, the fact that they already know what is their best way to learn is probably a HUGE advantage. I agree with some people here that not ALL the A class players from SC:BW will dominate. Most noteably Best, he is a BEAST at macro compared to other BW players, but since macro's been toned down in SC2, i'm sure that particular advantage is not as big. But looking at certain skill sets of certain players it seems silly to argue that when Bisu comes in with his ability, that he wouldn't completely make a lot of these SC2 players dizzy just trying to keep up with him, or Jaedong come in and frustrate people with his micro that ignores "counters" (like mutas killing archon/sair). | ||
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Marcuz
31 Posts
I have read a lot of posts from this thread, and for the most part you can tell which side the poster is on, which is awesome because it shows how much BW and SC2 mean to all of us! But I have to say that I actually agree with both sides. Yes BW players would come to SC2 and smash face, but also I don't think that those same BW players would place consistently due to the nature of SC2. When I first read this post I became very sad  because i thought "whats the point in trying to play sc2 competitively when in 2-5 years all the BW players would come over and I would be SOL because i did not play BW" but then the words "work ethic" and "practice" started to be used, the argument for the reason BW players would perform better are based around those same words. But when you think of what work ethic and practice means then you start to realize that these are not tangible objects that only BW players posses, that they get handed out after every proleague gold medal. NO these are things that can be used and developed by each and every one of us. So Flash plays 40 games a day, cool story man ill play 60. So JD works on his micro for 2 hours every morning, thats awesome man i will do 3 hours. although I still have a day job I have a feeling I wont any more :D The main thing I would like to say is yes Sc2 is little slack at the moment, but competition snowballs and eventually you will NEED to practice 12 hours a day to be competitive and you will NEED to become like Flash, but these things take time. In 10 years we will not be talking about JD or Flash or MC or MVP we will be talking about the players that are reading this post RIGHT NOW. all the really young kids that will grow up on SC2 like all the BW pros did with SC1. just remember that. | ||
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Nyctophobia
Canada99 Posts
Reading this makes me feel like if I were NesTea or MVP I'd check my closet and underneath my bed every night for Flash and Jaedong. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Well the thing is that that level of ability can only develop in a stable game, and when a person starts at a young age. Flash is an incredible talent, and if he turned 12 when Void came out he could be a SCII master, maybe. Elite skills don't just translate, ask Michael Jordan, Meg Whitman, or Bobby Fischer. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On October 04 2011 11:43 cLutZ wrote: I know this is an old post, but I feel it is incredibly deceptive. There is no way that Flash and Jaedong's greatness would translate to SCII like he proposes. A great deal of their incredible skills stems from them being able to "see the matrix". Its that incredible ability (like what happened when Neo becaome the one) to "know" what is going on, even when you don't. Well the thing is that that level of ability can only develop in a stable game, and when a person starts at a young age. Flash is an incredible talent, and if he turned 12 when Void came out he could be a SCII master, maybe. Elite skills don't just translate, ask Michael Jordan, Meg Whitman, or Bobby Fischer. But Flash sees the matrix... I have no doubt that top pros from BW will do very well in SC2 with some time to practice. There are many factors that would make them very stonrg players and among them are: work ethic, knowledge of efficient practice and great mechanics. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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girlsgames
United States1 Post
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DeviousAlpha
United Kingdom8 Posts
I understand the context is different and starcraft is a totally different ball game. Tons more money, far more professional. But what you say is still pure conjecture until it is proven. Some skills are transferable, not all. Work ethic is transferable, but until the pros here are paid like the brood war pros you can't even compare them to bw pros. Work ethic is a lot easier to maintain when you're a super rich mega star. This article is a farce. And actually disgustingly rude to the players who are currently winning the scene. You're basically sticking your middle finger up to them and saying "what you do means nothing." | ||
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iLike413
Canada100 Posts
"If you are talking about difference in skill levels, I don’t think there is any" - MVP, just killed the elephant  | ||
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DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
On November 18 2011 09:50 iLike413 wrote: Who do you think the best foreign Zerg, Protoss, and Terran are? What do you think separates you from them? "If you are talking about difference in skill levels, I don’t think there is any" - MVP, just killed the elephant How did MVP kill the elephant? If anything, his success just serves as a good example of BW skill transferring to SC2 skill, seeing as how he was the best BW player to make the switch (well actually, the best is Forgg but he's only entered the pro SC2 scene recently and he's already showing great promise). | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On November 29 2011 20:50 Hot_Bid wrote: Bump! This thread was hard to fin d. lol + Show Spoiler + ForGG fightin? :D edit: (added spoiler), and now i see what you did there ! :O | ||
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Grovbolle
Denmark3815 Posts
On November 29 2011 20:50 Hot_Bid wrote: Bump! This thread was hard to fin d. Hot_Bid. The master of subtleties | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51295 Posts
On November 29 2011 20:50 Hot_Bid wrote: Bump! This thread was hard to fin d. heeeyoh! | ||
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
The mechanics are there, it's builds and shit he has to learn, which he has oGs to feed him. | ||
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