EPTThe Elephant in the Room - Page 166
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Geordie
United Kingdom653 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/HawaiianPig/ellyESPORTS.png) by HawaiianPig | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
I'm not saying that some BW players (Flash, JD, etc.) couldn't switch and dominate, but all 300 A-teamers? Not a chance. | ||
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sick_transit
United States195 Posts
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DrakanSilva
Chile932 Posts
I absolutely agree 101% with most of what u said but I must disagree on saying that is a "Farce". Everything is perfectly argumented and it was a delight for my eyes & brain to read this. Why am I saying that SC2 e-sport scene isn't a Farce? SC2 scene is not as professional as BW Scene (and that was perfectly argumented) but SC2 as a e-sport won't grow out of nowhere to deliver salaries that are able to bring jaedong AND flash and everybody else to SC2, that will only be possible if the things that the communities/companies are doing (TL, MLG, GOMTV, ETC) make them become as huge as OSL or MSL in terms of publicity and that can't happen from 1 day to another, it might take 1 more year o maybe 2 to reach the point of being broadcasted in national TV channels (hopefully not only in Korea, I would love to see a channel in Europe or USA being able to bring e-sport 24/7 and maybe in 12 years to Latinamerica). It's a farce ? I don't think so. It's hyped ? Yes of course and it has to be if we are willing to make it possible for jaedong and flash to come to SC2 and earn, hopefully, more than in BW. It's a unconscious marketing job that we do everyday when we see Thorzain winning the TSL, IdrA leaving a won game, Dimaga and Jinro beating some Koreans at the GSL, going crazy because old school progamers like Boxer and Nada are coming back. If we don't hype up there won't be even a slight chance for SC2 to become what BW is in terms of professional sport, so it's not a Farce is just a stage. But if we fall in the mindset of saying "YEAH SC2 ESPORT IS A FARCE, WHO CARES, GO BACK TO BW, DONT LISTEN TO SC2 PLAYERS" and all that load of crap, then SC2 will never, ever, ever, have jaedong or flash playing it and at the bottom of our heart, every single BW, SC2 and some War3 players, do want to see them kicking the crap out of everybody at e-sport Stage in the US/EU 4 times a year and if you ask me, with BW that won't happen. And BW ain't going to make e-sport global, it didn't and it won't, so give SC2 a chance to bring Jaedong & Flash to play at the MLG 2015 and I'm sure every single player will appreciate the effort done by the communities and companies that believed in e-sport. My goal is to bring LA (Latinamerica, not Los Angeles) to the high level competitions and I don't plan to do that in 1, 3 or 6 months, that might take me as much as it took to BW to flourish into Flash & Jaedong. So please don't come crushing my hope and of many others saying that SC2 e-sport is a farce because it's not, I'll say it again, it's just a matter of time and this stage (not farce stage) is part of the development of something bigger. It has to be this way. | ||
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
On June 07 2011 14:57 Drakan wrote: Awesome read. So please don't come crushing my hope and of many others saying that SC2 e-sport is a farce because it's not, I'll say it again, it's just a matter of time and this stage (not farce stage) is part of the development of something bigger. It has to be this way. But is IS a farce, or a joke, whatever word you would like to insert. Sure it has potential, but... its a joke atm. | ||
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Dace2
United States1 Post
After MC beat July and claimed his second GSL victory one of the main topics discussed was his use of force fields. People talked about how they were imba, or about how it was just MC's us of FF's that was imba. But regardless MC rolled July. I see this as a great example of the difference between BW and SC2. MC used FF's in a way that hadn't been used before. His placement seemed perfect. July couldn't stop MC to save his life. Look at MMA. His crazy drops brought him to the top. His method of constant marine drops at multiple locations was something that seemed crazy. People just kept saying, "I've never seen somebody drop like that before." I'm not saying that BW players can't/don't need to innovate. I'm not saying that SC2 players don't use or need to refine their skills. I'm saying that the emphasis in each game is different. If Flash came to SC2 I'm sure he would do well. But would he dominate? I don't know. I can easily see top-tier BW players coming over to SC2, playing spectacularly, but not able to stay at the forefront of SC2's evolution. The BW players might be able to be the best at what is known, but unless they can push the boundaries of SC2, the SC2 players who are pushing the boundaries right now will stay on top. | ||
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425kid
416 Posts
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
Incredible amounts of practice and taking the game seriously no matter what the circumstances are, is king. No more premature GG's which hurts the look of the game. There's definitely the next generation of Flash and JD's out there. That level of skill exists, but needs cultivation to grow and show itself. We're seeing our share of embarrassing SC2 matches in major tourneys, but let's not pretend it hasn't ever happened in BW history - it has. There's always a time to celebrate the past, but let's keep forging on towards the future. I think maybe all that is what the article is trying to say. | ||
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DrakanSilva
Chile932 Posts
On June 09 2011 00:16 Pufftrees wrote: But is IS a farce, or a joke, whatever word you would like to insert. Sure it has potential, but... its a joke atm. For most of the top tier players I think it's not. Do you honestly think that still today, guys like SlayerS_MMA or oGsMC or Thorzain, ain't training 5 to 9 hours a day ? | ||
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liqsquid
United States2 Posts
On May 12 2011 13:58 rysecake wrote: Believe it or not there are plenty of ignorant people on these forums who have nada history (haha see what i did there) about sc1 (or who flash/jaedong/bisu are) yet still believe that they would suck if they switched. Foolish really. Haha, im one of those people, ignorant of sc1 history. Until my bro showed me a beta replay cast by husky I never even knew that there was a pro gaming scene for starcraft! I have to say though, I agree with this. Insanely good rts player clocking in well past the time spent for a typical full time job just to practice = faceroll. I dis-agree that it was a farce though. Soooooo many of the high level sc2 games are a blast to watch, especially with an entertaining caster! Lets just enjoy the game, enjoy playing it, and watch the stars emerge and fall >:3 | ||
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WaterTower
France138 Posts
If Flash leaves due to injury or switch, no one can take his crown. He takes it with him wherever he does. The only way for SC to survive is for Flash to be convincingly defeated so SC can have another exciting leader. Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu are the only things holding the SC progaming community together. People will always go see their genius. Once they are gone, no one can really fill their shoes and people will turn their attention to SC2. | ||
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101toss
3232 Posts
On June 10 2011 21:59 WaterTower wrote: The only way for SC to survive is for Flash to be convincingly defeated so SC can have another exciting leader. ZerO chance of that happening | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
Nevertheless, I am going to watch just SC2. Its much more attractive to me, as there is a lively competition taking place in my world, between people who speak a languge that I can understand and have personalities and faces that I am able to tell apart. The games are watchable on pages that are in English, they are cast in English with a very high standard of production. I am not saying SC2>BW, I played and enjoyed both games. But you just cannot compare them from a western viewer's point of view, its apples and oranges. It does not matter if the BW competition is so much better, when it is hidden behind a language and cultural barrier. Over and over again on these forums, I see a strong sentiment, as people want to relive their wonderful BW experience again with SC2, to recreate the same developements and ways if excitement. In my life, I have already learned that this approach always never works. While we should always remember the good things that we lived through, we should not try to merely recreate them. Instead, we must look forward to are future without prejudice. | ||
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iRk
Sweden83 Posts
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Remf1
6 Posts
On May 12 2011 14:27 Lowspark wrote: Your points are not valid. There are two things that completely change this game from brood war. One is multiple building select and multiple unit select) and the second is balance changes. Brood War hasn't been updated for what, 10 years? It hasn't been updated because as all games due outside of the pro scene, it fades out. Why do BW practice teams have such a regimented schedule? there really isn't such a large ladder out there for them so they have to play tons of custom games. Currently there are still highly competitive ladder games going on in sc2 as opposed to sc:BW. Why was APM so important and why were mechanics stressed so hard in sc:BW? because macro wasn't that easy. you didn't have 10 barracks hot keyed or 6 warpgates. You had to manually macro all your buildings, meaning a 300 apm player would always win against a 100 apm player. your actions were highly needed to win games and players like JD and Flash have the best mechanics. In sc2, you can sit comfortably around 150 apm and do everything a 300 apm BW player does. MC, ripping nerd apart is not the fastest player, but maybe at the time he was the smartest player. Because the game is easier in terms of mechanics, theory is more important. The game is still being balanced, but i doubt any pro players are truly thinking about if their spell casters are going to lose a spell or such, they just play. The khadarian amulet was a bit strong and needed to be nerfed slightly, and it will likely come back into the game at some point as maybe a +15 energy instead of +25. The game is still being balanced meaning that new strategies are being formed. The game is a little over a year old from beta launch, and BW is what 12 years old? I think stratagies have been figured out in that game and it really does come down to the better player at this point. The game is young and you calling out the winners as only being winners because BW still exist is really shameful. The game is different, and the players are different. There is no elephant in the room because those "BW A teamers" you love so much are still in BW. And former pros such as nada, july, boxer, and rainbow are all loosing to players like MC in sc2. Also Fruitdealer was described by tasteosis as an up and coming bw player who struggled due to family issues. NesTea was a very good 2v2 BW player but terrible at 1v1. And MC was the suicide toss and only won one televised games. They have been fairly accurate in their depictions of these players. When this game is 12 years old and sc3 comes out, you will likely write the same article about how players like MKP, Leenock, and other young players now switched over and when the real dudes switch over all the players will lose. This article is a farce THIS. You can't compare apples and oranges, and if you do you have to acknowledge the differences. My opinion is that this kind of argumentation is the outcry of people that are scared that their "game" will vanish/lose it's importance. The argument "IF top BW would come into SC2 they would dominate" isn't valid. There is no scientific proof for this. IF is ALWAYS IF. As long as it hasn't happened it's NOT a FACT. The writer IS talking about it as a FACT which again it's NOT. EDIT: I also think it's about "BW-People" feeling they are not getting as much recognition? That SC2 will take over is something bad? | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
obviously when the BW pro's move over sc2 will gain.. in the meantime sc2 is plenty fine for such a young game. | ||
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Johnnybb
Denmark486 Posts
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