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On May 13 2011 13:38 hydraden wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:36 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 13:33 hydraden wrote:
This battle between SC2 and BW all came from Blizzard.
If they let KeSPA organize SC2 matches, most BW players will migrate last year.
BW will be dead by now for sure. unbelievable What's unbelievable? State your argument, please. Don't just say half sentence, and thinking you are better than somebody else.
Lets see where your post went off-topic just to get to you 'point':
SC2 vs BW
Blizzard vs Kepsa
BW will be dead of sure
Seems to me that you're just a one sided SC2 fanatic. Some people here are trying to argue with open minds. You, on the other hand, isn't keen on engaging an argument because you're either a blind fan boy or a troll.
How can you say they would have migrated for sure??
Have you even considered the Lag and Ping on battle.net and how would that affect with micro battles early in the game?
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On the bright side this is no longer the first thing you see when you load up TL.
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On May 13 2011 13:36 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:25 Enyalus wrote:
OP's argument was that the level of competition and skill seen in SC2 right now is not on the level of Brood War, and that once more A-team BW pros switch, they will dominate the scene.
Why's that getting so much flak? It's completely true. Maybe it doesn't need to be said by the OP, but there's nothing wrong with the article. It's kind of obvious if you look at MC, or Marineking, or NesTea's careers in BW.
Seriously... Please don't just jump in the discussion without seeing what everyone's saying. I'll get you into it though. A: It's a differnet game. If you're good at chess doesn't mean you're gonna be the champion at a marathon. B: The OP's saying that the SC2 scene is a farce, which is why most SC2 fans think that the OP is biased and only wants to show BW elitism, which imo is probably true, which means that every BW fanboy in the thread will go like "Pft ofcourse any BW pro would hulk smash the SC2 scene", whereas SC2 fanboys go "I don't care about brood war, I like the progamers im rooting for, why is this on the front page?" C: There's no sign whatsoever so far that SC:BW pros would be dominating the scene, if they decided to switch over. Also there's a logical fallacy in the OP that BW players would win everything in SC2 but don't join because they wouldn't get any money, whereas people repeatedly state that if they did indeed in everything, they'd earn triple the amount they do now.
A- Worst analogy I've ever heard.
B-The OP means that, should BW pros actually be in the SC2 scene, that many of the pros currently in it wouldn't look nearly as good. In other words, the skill-cap would be higher, or at least the average skill.
C-Look at every GSL winner. Look at many of the players in Code S, and mind you that all these players were either past their prime when they left Brood War(Boxer, July, Nada), or weren't really all that good. I mean, look at Idra(a BW B-teamer) being one of the best foreigners out there.(I'm not calling anyone bad here)
On the logical fallacy, the OP never said that the BW top tier pros would never get any money in SC2, they just said that they would get less than they would in BW, which is quite true. And on how they'd earn triple what they do now, I'd really like to see how anyone could prove that with any amount of certainty whatsoever.
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Mailing were you ever around for the MBS versus no MBS thread?
They had to close those threads 4 times. All of them went for hundreds and hundreds of pages.
There used to be a lot of BW versus SC2 shit though too. I can give you a list of plenty of topics that were highly debated or frowned upon.
Either way, it's always nice to revisit hot topics of discussion and considering all the stars are in alignment with all the Korean pros who made the switch from BW doing well and impending free agency period in BW. I think it's a fairly legitimate exercise. Only, its a one way street most of the time. :/
It really is no different from all the Grubby fanatics going wild when they heard he was switching over to SC2 full-time, "Grubby's going to dominate!" etc. Has he? Not yet, but he's certainly got a lot better.
Let me coin it another way: there are a lot of great RTS players who haven't made the switch yet. Once they do, the game will get much more competitive.
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On May 13 2011 13:50 Mailing wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:46 Zergneedsfood wrote:On May 13 2011 13:39 s3raph wrote:On May 13 2011 10:42 Bayyne wrote:On May 13 2011 10:18 s3raph wrote:On May 13 2011 10:09 Bayyne wrote:
So people are having issues with the god damn tone of an editorial? Really? Seems like people are hurt that the article sheds a truthful light on one view of the state of SC2.
Example: Pick up a Sports Illustrated magazine, flip to the last page where the weekly editorials are, and observe the tone of the writer. Very very frequently (and I've been a subscriber to SI for a very long time) the articles have a very sarcastic, almost offensive type of tone. I love it, and so does the rest of normal society that doesn't have skin the thickness of silk. It makes you question the writer, makes you think, makes you mad, makes you sad. It's good read.
I genuinely feel bad, and in the same vein have a lot of respect, for the mods that have to go through and read the utterly disgusting, vaginal sand infested posts people love to post today. Sure, post your opinions. Share your feelings. But you know what? When there is just a constant stream of statements like "I don't appreciate the tone, it's offensive, snarf snarf", it takes a shit on other genuinely constructive posts that have merit.
GG.
Because Glenn Beck's comments, which make you question the writer, makes people think, makes people mad, sad, etc, are helpful to the American political process? This post is so full of terrible logic that it's disgusting. Yeah, sensationalism might be beloved by 'the rest of normal society,' but it doesn't mean it solves anything, is efficacious, or does anything constructive. In a sense, you've just completely destroyed the very purpose of an editorial down to a self-exposition of terrible logic rather than an accessible, formal piece of writing that spurs intelligent and confident discussion. I don't think people are rebelling against editorialism. I think people are upset about sensationalist journalism that fails to illuminate a basic fact, tent, or understanding in a manner that encourages beneficial discussion. I feel genuinely bad that people like you are the reason why birther controversies and other forms of misinformation and propaganda are so effective among human society. First of all, Glenn Beck is an inspiration to all the GED accredited, politically motivated, sensational desiring activists. >_> Second, there's a big difference between sensationalistic reports and opinions; you probably should know the difference since you seem to have such a wonderful grasp on the root of the problem that is the "forms of misinformation and propaganda" and "birther controversies". Disagreeing with an author's point of view? Fine. Commenting on his questionable facts? I love it. But incessant crying over "inappropriate" language and tone? I don't know about that one. We can agree to disagree here, since I don't really see the difference between the OP and anything written by Glenn Beck. I ts an editorial opinion piece that fails to provide a solution or a point of view that constructive addresses the point. It's like, as someone else said in response to my post, like hearing about the US deficit without any real way to do anything about it. Does that justify that anything having to do with the US deficit should be written in a highly aggressive and controversial manner with a clear-cut antagonist? Hard pressed to say that it should be. Honestly, sensationalistic reports are just opinions in and of themselves. There is no real difference between them, in my mind. Since you disagree, I suppose we should just not argue over what constitutes an editorial then. Moving on ... I'm fine with disagreements over content and commenting over the OP's questionable 'quantitative' analysis; we seem to be in agreement there. But giving how divisive TL.net already is over various BW vs SC2 threads, yeah, I think the language and the tone is wildly inappropriate. It only the forums into more and more of a quagmire imo, rather than a unified or united community. Don't care whose fault it was/is/etc, but this article is living proof of how tone and language can severely damage that sort of thing. It's an editorial. Stop saying that there needs to be a solution. Just because a teacher describes a problem doesn't mean he/she is obligated to provide a solution. What did Intrigue just do? He provided details that outlined a problem that he believed exists. There is no burden on him to offer up a solution. Stop saying that it needs to be there. And how about you try to say: here's my plan to solve the deficit, because last time I checked, those solutions sucked balls. And the second part I bolded I believe is personally untrue. I visit this site a lot, and I have yet to remember a single time in the last few months were BW vs SC2 flame was crazily out of hand. This community is getting used to crossing both worlds. Don't try to suddenly accuse either side of shit slinging. On May 13 2011 13:46 MechKing wrote:
This topic is so disrespectful to the SC2 pros out there. You're basically saying they don't work hard, and they're just going to be dominated once any A-teamer moves on to SC2. What's the point of that, really? I hope you realize that the people that the OP is talking about were BW players....so technically he's bashing them? And let's remember that Intrigue first: 1. Praises the old greats like Boxer, Nada, and July. 2. I HOPE YOU GUYS REALIZE that Intrigue has stated that he's excited to see games and loves some of them to death. I visit this site a lot, and I have yet to remember a single time in the last few months were BW vs SC2 flame was crazily out of hand. Because mods close them. This one gets immunity because it has fancy numbers and was written by a mod.
I hope you realize that the people that the OP is talking about were BW players....so technically he's bashing them?Yes, he did. He essentially said that they are all washed-up and STILL can be competitive in SC2.
1. Mods close them eh? Read the first page of the closed threads and not one title reeks of BW vs SC2 flame. I stand by this point of view. Even if they start, it's been a LONG time since those things plagued the community.
.....or maybe I just spend time with my buds in ADT because I don't want to get in on it. >.>
2. Is there ANYTHING factually wrong about what he said? He said these people are washed up....that's true.
He then said that these people are competitive in the SC2 environment. That is ALSO true.
Is it so hard to accept that the potential for a massive improvement exists? Is that sooo hard to swallow? When we become objective and throw out our favoritism for players, then it becomes pretty obvious that Intrigue's argument holds more weight because we recognize that based on stats, achievements, etc, the caliber of the players currently in the scene are nowhere near to how BW developed.
And Intrigue argues: give it time, and it's going to get so much better.
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On May 13 2011 13:51 aimaimaim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:38 hydraden wrote:On May 13 2011 13:36 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 13:33 hydraden wrote:
This battle between SC2 and BW all came from Blizzard.
If they let KeSPA organize SC2 matches, most BW players will migrate last year.
BW will be dead by now for sure. unbelievable What's unbelievable? State your argument, please. Don't just say half sentence, and thinking you are better than somebody else. Lets see where your post went off-topic just to get to you 'point': Seems to me that you're just a one sided SC2 fanatic. Some people here are trying to argue with open minds. You, on the other hand, isn't keen on engaging an argument because you're either a blind fan boy or a troll. How can you say they would have migrated for sure?? Have you even considered the Lag and Ping on battle.net and how would that affect with micro battles early in the game?
You misunderstood me so bad, I do not even think SC2 is as good as WC3, let alone BW.
It is just another Red Alert. All the hype SC2 got are actually coming from success of BW.
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On May 13 2011 13:58 hydraden wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:51 aimaimaim wrote:On May 13 2011 13:38 hydraden wrote:On May 13 2011 13:36 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 13:33 hydraden wrote:
This battle between SC2 and BW all came from Blizzard.
If they let KeSPA organize SC2 matches, most BW players will migrate last year.
BW will be dead by now for sure. unbelievable What's unbelievable? State your argument, please. Don't just say half sentence, and thinking you are better than somebody else. Lets see where your post went off-topic just to get to you 'point': SC2 vs BW
Blizzard vs Kepsa
BW will be dead of sure Seems to me that you're just a one sided SC2 fanatic. Some people here are trying to argue with open minds. You, on the other hand, isn't keen on engaging an argument because you're either a blind fan boy or a troll. How can you say they would have migrated for sure?? Have you even considered the Lag and Ping on battle.net and how would that affect with micro battles early in the game? You misunderstood me so bad, I do not even think SC2 is as good as WC3, let alone BW. It is just another Red Alert. All the hype SC2 got are actually coming from success of BW.
Then why has SC2 exploded outside of Korea where nobody cares about BW?
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On May 13 2011 14:01 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:58 hydraden wrote:On May 13 2011 13:51 aimaimaim wrote:On May 13 2011 13:38 hydraden wrote:On May 13 2011 13:36 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 13:33 hydraden wrote:
This battle between SC2 and BW all came from Blizzard.
If they let KeSPA organize SC2 matches, most BW players will migrate last year.
BW will be dead by now for sure. unbelievable What's unbelievable? State your argument, please. Don't just say half sentence, and thinking you are better than somebody else. Lets see where your post went off-topic just to get to you 'point': SC2 vs BW
Blizzard vs Kepsa
BW will be dead of sure Seems to me that you're just a one sided SC2 fanatic. Some people here are trying to argue with open minds. You, on the other hand, isn't keen on engaging an argument because you're either a blind fan boy or a troll. How can you say they would have migrated for sure?? Have you even considered the Lag and Ping on battle.net and how would that affect with micro battles early in the game? You misunderstood me so bad, I do not even think SC2 is as good as WC3, let alone BW. It is just another Red Alert. All the hype SC2 got are actually coming from success of BW. Then why has SC2 exploded outside of Korea where nobody cares about BW?
You hurt my feelings. 
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On May 13 2011 13:58 hydraden wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:51 aimaimaim wrote:On May 13 2011 13:38 hydraden wrote:On May 13 2011 13:36 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 13:33 hydraden wrote:
This battle between SC2 and BW all came from Blizzard.
If they let KeSPA organize SC2 matches, most BW players will migrate last year.
BW will be dead by now for sure. unbelievable What's unbelievable? State your argument, please. Don't just say half sentence, and thinking you are better than somebody else. Lets see where your post went off-topic just to get to you 'point': SC2 vs BW
Blizzard vs Kepsa
BW will be dead of sure Seems to me that you're just a one sided SC2 fanatic. Some people here are trying to argue with open minds. You, on the other hand, isn't keen on engaging an argument because you're either a blind fan boy or a troll. How can you say they would have migrated for sure?? Have you even considered the Lag and Ping on battle.net and how would that affect with micro battles early in the game? You misunderstood me so bad, I do not even think SC2 is as good as WC3, let alone BW. It is just another Red Alert. All the hype SC2 got are actually coming from success of BW.
Then why post that way?
This topic is really volatile in itself. No need to add more off-topic stuff that could cause an even more shitstorm.
On May 13 2011 14:01 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:58 hydraden wrote:On May 13 2011 13:51 aimaimaim wrote:On May 13 2011 13:38 hydraden wrote:On May 13 2011 13:36 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 13:33 hydraden wrote:
This battle between SC2 and BW all came from Blizzard.
If they let KeSPA organize SC2 matches, most BW players will migrate last year.
BW will be dead by now for sure. unbelievable What's unbelievable? State your argument, please. Don't just say half sentence, and thinking you are better than somebody else. Lets see where your post went off-topic just to get to you 'point': SC2 vs BW
Blizzard vs Kepsa
BW will be dead of sure Seems to me that you're just a one sided SC2 fanatic. Some people here are trying to argue with open minds. You, on the other hand, isn't keen on engaging an argument because you're either a blind fan boy or a troll. How can you say they would have migrated for sure?? Have you even considered the Lag and Ping on battle.net and how would that affect with micro battles early in the game? You misunderstood me so bad, I do not even think SC2 is as good as WC3, let alone BW. It is just another Red Alert. All the hype SC2 got are actually coming from success of BW. Then why has SC2 exploded outside of Korea where nobody cares about BW?
Seriously? Do you really need to state that statement like its universally accepted?
Maybe because of the money blizzard stuff into advertising? Maybe because it has a Starcraft title on it? Maybe because all around the world, the only nerds that can get chicks are in korea and maybe foreign nerds wants to be like them? Maybe because of the flashy graphics?
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On May 13 2011 13:36 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:25 Enyalus wrote:
OP's argument was that the level of competition and skill seen in SC2 right now is not on the level of Brood War, and that once more A-team BW pros switch, they will dominate the scene.
Why's that getting so much flak? It's completely true. Maybe it doesn't need to be said by the OP, but there's nothing wrong with the article. It's kind of obvious if you look at MC, or Marineking, or NesTea's careers in BW.
Seriously... Please don't just jump in the discussion without seeing what everyone's saying. I'll get you into it though. A: It's a differnet game. If you're good at chess doesn't mean you're gonna be the champion at a marathon. B: The OP's saying that the SC2 scene is a farce, which is why most SC2 fans think that the OP is biased and only wants to show BW elitism, which imo is probably true, which means that every BW fanboy in the thread will go like "Pft ofcourse any BW pro would hulk smash the SC2 scene", whereas SC2 fanboys go "I don't care about brood war, I like the progamers im rooting for, why is this on the front page?" C: There's no sign whatsoever so far that SC:BW pros would be dominating the scene, if they decided to switch over. Also there's a logical fallacy in the OP that BW players would win everything in SC2 but don't join because they wouldn't get any money, whereas people repeatedly state that if they did indeed in everything, they'd earn triple the amount they do now.
So, ignoring A...the OP said the SC2 competition at the highest level (which I'm going to assume everyone agrees is in Korea) is a farce. OP provided evidence for this statement by looking at the SC2 pros who are dominating the scene now and comparing it to their BW careers. His findings give him reason to conclude what he did reasonably.
As for point C, really? Ex BW pros have played in and won every GSL to date. And as the OP points out, most weren't even A-team BW pros at the time of their switch. Why would it be a leap of faith to expect the A and S-class BW pros to dominate the SC2 scene when their lesser skilled/talented/hardworking progamers have already done so?
I read an interview months ago that stated the TSL house practices between 20-25 games a day. Compare that to the Slayers_Min interview quoted about practicing 30-40 games a day and the success which Slayers is having...possibly with less talented players. (Tester, Cool. MMA, Alicia?) The formula for practicing hard and having a keen RTS mind will always be a recipe for success. The top BW pros have that in spades.
I don't know much about the money argument. But I do know that salary trumps prize money, because one is guaranteed and one is not. The money BW pros make from their salaries, sponsorships and endorsements is definitely considerably more than even ex-GSL champs like Fruitdealer make.
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On May 13 2011 14:01 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:58 hydraden wrote:On May 13 2011 13:51 aimaimaim wrote:On May 13 2011 13:38 hydraden wrote:On May 13 2011 13:36 Legatus Lanius wrote:On May 13 2011 13:33 hydraden wrote:
This battle between SC2 and BW all came from Blizzard.
If they let KeSPA organize SC2 matches, most BW players will migrate last year.
BW will be dead by now for sure. unbelievable What's unbelievable? State your argument, please. Don't just say half sentence, and thinking you are better than somebody else. Lets see where your post went off-topic just to get to you 'point': SC2 vs BW
Blizzard vs Kepsa
BW will be dead of sure Seems to me that you're just a one sided SC2 fanatic. Some people here are trying to argue with open minds. You, on the other hand, isn't keen on engaging an argument because you're either a blind fan boy or a troll. How can you say they would have migrated for sure?? Have you even considered the Lag and Ping on battle.net and how would that affect with micro battles early in the game? You misunderstood me so bad, I do not even think SC2 is as good as WC3, let alone BW. It is just another Red Alert. All the hype SC2 got are actually coming from success of BW. Then why has SC2 exploded outside of Korea where nobody cares about BW?
a combination of:
-flashy lights and graphics
-players hoping they can actually be somewhat competitive in a new game that isnt dominated by koreans that play all day
-an easier game
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this website: trolls trolling trolls that write ttroll articles, so trolls can get mad and troll mods can ban trolls... i'm never coming back to this site.
User was banned for this post.
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On May 13 2011 13:36 Euronyme wrote:
C: There's no sign whatsoever so far that SC:BW pros would be dominating the scene, if they decided to switch over.
BW pros are already dominating the scene after switching over. What intrigue is saying is that so far it's the bottom of the barrel* BW pros that are dominating.
*exception for Nada, Boxer, July, and Rainbow: they weren't bottom of the barrel, just obsolete.
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On May 13 2011 14:03 rogbirdz wrote:
this website: trolls trolling trolls that write ttroll articles, so trolls can get mad and troll mods can ban trolls... i'm never coming back to this site.
It's sad that such a crappy post perfectly embodies this article and the following discussion.
"Let's post a pointless article that really doesn't have a point but makes snide comments about SC2 on a site mainly about SC2, claim that it isn't anti-SC2 and then hide."
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So...
Nearly every poster who is familiar with the competitive scenes of both games agrees with the article.
Nearly every poster who is only familiar with the competitive scene of SC2 disagrees with the article.
I wonder why.
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On May 13 2011 13:54 Darathor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:36 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 13:25 Enyalus wrote:
OP's argument was that the level of competition and skill seen in SC2 right now is not on the level of Brood War, and that once more A-team BW pros switch, they will dominate the scene.
Why's that getting so much flak? It's completely true. Maybe it doesn't need to be said by the OP, but there's nothing wrong with the article. It's kind of obvious if you look at MC, or Marineking, or NesTea's careers in BW.
Seriously... Please don't just jump in the discussion without seeing what everyone's saying. I'll get you into it though. A: It's a differnet game. If you're good at chess doesn't mean you're gonna be the champion at a marathon. B: The OP's saying that the SC2 scene is a farce, which is why most SC2 fans think that the OP is biased and only wants to show BW elitism, which imo is probably true, which means that every BW fanboy in the thread will go like "Pft ofcourse any BW pro would hulk smash the SC2 scene", whereas SC2 fanboys go "I don't care about brood war, I like the progamers im rooting for, why is this on the front page?" C: There's no sign whatsoever so far that SC:BW pros would be dominating the scene, if they decided to switch over. Also there's a logical fallacy in the OP that BW players would win everything in SC2 but don't join because they wouldn't get any money, whereas people repeatedly state that if they did indeed in everything, they'd earn triple the amount they do now. A- Worst analogy I've ever heard. B-The OP means that, should BW pros actually be in the SC2 scene, that many of the pros currently in it wouldn't look nearly as good. In other words, the skill-cap would be higher, or at least the average skill. C-Look at every GSL winner. Look at many of the players in Code S, and mind you that all these players were either past their prime when they left Brood War(Boxer, July, Nada), or weren't really all that good. I mean, look at Idra(a BW B-teamer) being one of the best foreigners out there.(I'm not calling anyone bad here) On the logical fallacy, the OP never said that the BW top tier pros would never get any money in SC2, they just said that they would get less than they would in BW, which is quite true. And on how they'd earn triple what they do now, I'd really like to see how anyone could prove that with any amount of certainty whatsoever.
Take whatever you want out of the analogy, BW players never seem to realize that BW skill doesn't directly translate into SC2 skill. It doesn't even matter how many examples I give.
The OP literally says that the SC2 scene is a farce (it's even a headline). Don't try to put flowers on it, it's obviousy high levels of arrogance at work.
There are almost only Koreans in the GSL. The results are swinged in that angle. Just because Koreans dominated SC:BW doesn't mean they're dominating SC2.
The OP said that the players follow the money, and he's assuming that a BW player that would switch over would win everything. If you win everything, IE EVERY GSL, GSTL, NASL, Super GSL, Dreamhack, MLG, TSL etc etc over a year, you'd earn alot more money than what they do now.
Logical fallacy if I ever saw one.
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SC2 exploded for several reasons:
- hype
- its a Blizzard game
Did I forget to mention its a Blizzard game?
On May 13 2011 14:05 Severedevil wrote:
So...
Nearly every poster who is familiar with the competitive scenes of both games agrees with the article.
Nearly every poster who is only familiar with the competitive scene of SC2 disagrees with the article.
I wonder why.
There are a number of exceptions to this rule in the thread. I hate generalizations, but for the most part its pretty accurate unfortunately :/
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You guys are absolutely right. BW skill =/= SC2 skill. After all, top SC2 players such as MC, Nestea, MVP, Bomber, and TheStC weren't even professional BW players.
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On May 13 2011 13:41 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 13:36 ghrur wrote:On May 13 2011 13:21 Euronyme wrote:On May 13 2011 13:14 ghrur wrote:On May 13 2011 13:07 out4blood wrote:
Sorry, but your rhetorical efforts to defuse the obvious response, "It's a different game," fail completely.
It's a different game.
The mix of skills required are different enough from BW, that at the very tippy-top of the rankings, players who have the ideal mix for SC2 will rise to the top, even if they were not at the top of the BW rankings. As an analogy, take the sport of swimming; swimmers who gold medal at the 50 m breaststroke rarely gold medal at 400 m breaststroke, even though it is the same stroke! Yes, they are similar, but they are not the same.
We see this with the performance of world-class WC3 players. They are not tearing it up, either. Why not? Because it's a different game. Michael Phelps is to Swimming as Flash or Jaedong are to Starcraft. And BW players ARE tearing it up. 5/5 GSLs have gone to Broodwar Players. When hasn't a final gone to one of the former BW pros? Yeah but then again, most of the SC2 players in Korea have played SC:BW before, as it's the biggest RTS there. There are foreigners from for instance the WC3 scene who are way way way better than Rainbow and Fruitdealer, so your point's only valid if these people were considerd to actually be top notch. Right now former WC3 players are just as good as former SC:BW players.. Guess why? Because it's a new game, they've played it for over a year, and that's what's beaing meassured. Not what they did years ago. GSL is held in Korea, Korea = Starcraft. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the winner of the GSL's probably gonna be an ex BW player. It doesn't mean that they're the best though. Look at TSL. Are there WC3 players way better than Nestea, MC, or MVP? Look, there are WC3 pros in Korea too. Where was Moon in GSL? Guess why? Because you're comparing the top WC3 foreign pro players to SC:BW foreigners, who were like, A-rank ICCUP but nowhere near B-team level BW. Maybe that's why. Just because GSL is held in korea doesn't mean it's going to be a BW player that wins. It could be a new SC2 player. It could be a korean WC3 pro. Or... do they suddenly not have that? Idk, I thought Wemade FOX had a WC3 team. Furthermore, please don't say ex-BW player. We know everyone's an ex-BW player in Korea. We're saying ex-BW pro. Difference. Big difference. TSL, as much as I love it, is an online tournament. I love Thorzain, and I love Naniwa (not as much  ), but I want to see them in Korea taking GSLs before we say everyone's on a level playing field regardless of background. TSL is the only tournament where foreigners and Koreans have actually clashed, and it didn't turn out too well for the Koreans. Most foreigners had a WC3 background. I don't think what game you played over a year ago is relevant to what's going on in todays pro scene regardless, and your three sentences of nitpicking a typo of player instead of pro-player doesn't really help your case as much as you might think it does.
Eh, Koreans have played against foreigners at other tournaments besides TSL.
They've done quite well in the FXOpen series of online tournaments, with Koreans usually netting first place over top foreigners like SelecT.
Also, there have been the infamous Korean victories at Blizzcon and the IEM finals, in addition to the lackluster showing from foreigners at the GSL World Championship. MC had an extremely strong showing when winning Dreamhack and the Copenhagen games.
Nevertheless, Koreans do tend to do a lot worse in international online tournaments for whatever reasons. They haven't been completely dominating in NASL possibly due to lag and inconvenient play times. Top Koreans have been knocked out of the recent Chinese Stars Wars online tournament by both foreigners and Chinese players.
However, I currently do not trust the current sample size of tournaments to give me a definitive answer that foreign WC3 players are better than Korean former BW pros. Koreans usually have dominating showings at LANs and live events, yet their success doesn't translate as well into online tournaments, especially international ones. Until I see a LAN event where former foreign WC3 pros start dominating over Korean former BW pros, I'm quite skeptical to believe that foreign WC3 pros can compete competently. However, I also fear that this would have an unintended side-effect of inciting people to believe that SC2 is too volatile because the "skill-less" WC3 "noobs" had beaten the "best" of the SC2 scene.
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On May 13 2011 13:49 StarStruck wrote:
Or it...
could get people thinking
stir up the pot
get lots of publicity
You know, sort of like what it's doing right now.
Stir up the pot? What the fuck?
Chill could say that he's banning everyone whose name starts with R. That would stir up the pot.
TL Mods could give away contact information from everyone on the site. That would get lots of publicity.
I would make a comment about 'getting people thinking.' But this article doesn't do that, so sarcasm will be reserved for future dates. Here. Have a voucher. Redeemable at MLG Columbus for one sign.
All the article does is state the obvious in a really, really loud way. Now, the reasons you present are indeed possible reasons. I can't deny that. If any of them turn out to be the actual one, however, I would be surprised, since every decision from TL Staff I've witnessed from the has hitherto been completely cogent.
Which brings me to asking why the hell this was deemed exemplary argumentation.
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EPT
