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Since I am rather new on the proscene, post savior, I do love this articles. This starts out as a article about Jaedong and why he is so good, but brings out a very important discussion. Where are all the great minds today?
I know that boxer, iloveoov, savior and to some extent bisu changed how we play the game (as you go into in your article). But where are the new minds? Sure Bisu is still playing on a fairly high level, but who will come in and change how we play ZvT? TvP? Sure Fantasy has played mech, but the feeling I'm getting is that he would not be where he is today if it wasnt for oov and boxer.
Because no matter how hard you try you cannot say that Jaedong has changed his best MU, ZvZ. He has a huge win% but what has he brough into the matchup that's new? Nothing except his nearly perfect mechanics. If you watched nongmin while he was streaming you noticed one thing: he was doing the same builds over and over again with VERY small variations. And from the little information I have it seems that's what todays players do to get better. I remember reading a translation of someone saying "When a coach asks a player to play 100 games to prepair for a single game in proleague players will often complain, not jaedong he thinks 100 games is a minimum". Impressive? Yes. Good for the future of StarCraft? No! Has starcraft stopped evolving?
Who will step out of the gigantic shadow cast by the older players and bring something new to us, the players and fans?
(I just wanted to add that I'm a HUGE jaedong fan)
Ninjaedit:
If you didnt get that from the first paragraph: I loved the article, keep up the good work.
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I think when Jaedong micro'd two sets of stacked mutalisks in two different places at once, I realised his 400 apm was not just a joke.
I don't know why anyone would be hesitant to proclaim Jaedong in league with the best players of all time. Sure, I have sAviOr nostalgia too.. But while sAviOr evokes an image of a grand conqueror, sitting high atop his chair and calling the shots, to me Jaedong brings to mind a gritty fighter who is in the fray everyday and is somehow surviving.
The climate of progaming has totally changed. When sAviOr was in charge, it was everyone's job to take him down. "This player is good" was always said ignoring sAviOr, because players simply weren't on his level for longer than a week. Some people went toe to toe with him, but until Bisu it never lasted.
Enter Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, Stork, and a host of others. Suddenly we've got lots of players who all have what it takes to beat each other. The micro, the macro, the strategy, are all amazing. No one is challenging the leader, but vying for the position of leader. The player who's remained impressive, and who's losses were followed by grand victories is Jaedong.
I don't think StarCraft is anything like it was in sAviOr's age. But definitely Jaedong has pulled ahead in what is probably the most difficult time in StarCraft to make a name for yourself.
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how could Fantasy lose to Jaedong? Fantasy is the better player!
I have highlighted the flaw in your logic ![[image loading]](http://209.85.62.26/12390/191/emo/teach.gif)
edit:
ok now that I've actually finished reading the article I can compliment you on a well-written dead on article 
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Oh wow, such a bomb article <3. It's almost too good, now I feel that something depressing needs to occur to balance out this piece.
On September 19 2009 10:13 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2009 10:02 GrimAngel wrote:
i really agree how jaedong is like nada since he's the 2nd great zerg after savior, like how nada is 2nd to boxer. I wonder if there will ever be an iloveoov zerg equivalent? XD It's going to be Effort. Savior and Effort are on the same team and Effort seems poised to follow Savior's footsteps and become a S class zerg. All Effort needs to do now is to win a few titles.
Equivalent to iloveoov how? His dominance or 'macro' style?
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thank you, anti-fan, for coming out and saying this.
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Great article. Very nicely done!
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epic writing and this is so true.Damn guys Nada never gets enough credit.
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was just wandering ....
were boxer nada and savior in their prime were called bonjwas
or was it after
no i'm not bringing this debate to the table just asking cause history will call him the 4th bonjwa
beautiful article plexa
enjoyed the reading of it
edit
oups forgot i loveoove sorry
make it 5th than
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 19 2009 10:15 Julmust wrote:
Since I am rather new on the proscene, post savior, I do love this articles. This starts out as a article about Jaedong and why he is so good, but brings out a very important discussion. Where are all the great minds today?
I know that boxer, iloveoov, savior and to some extent bisu changed how we play the game (as you go into in your article). But where are the new minds? Sure Bisu is still playing on a fairly high level, but who will come in and change how we play ZvT? TvP? Sure Fantasy has played mech, but the feeling I'm getting is that he would not be where he is today if it wasnt for oov and boxer.
Because no matter how hard you try you cannot say that Jaedong has changed his best MU, ZvZ. He has a huge win% but what has he brough into the matchup that's new? Nothing except his nearly perfect mechanics. If you watched nongmin while he was streaming you noticed one thing: he was doing the same builds over and over again with VERY small variations. And from the little information I have it seems that's what todays players do to get better. I remember reading a translation of someone saying "When a coach asks a player to play 100 games to prepair for a single game in proleague players will often complain, not jaedong he thinks 100 games is a minimum". Impressive? Yes. Good for the future of StarCraft? No! Has starcraft stopped evolving?
Who will step out of the gigantic shadow cast by the older players and bring something new to us, the players and fans?
(I just wanted to add that I'm a HUGE jaedong fan)
Ninjaedit:
If you didnt get that from the first paragraph: I loved the article, keep up the good work.
You bring up excellent points and they are all points which me and riptide have been hours upon hours discussion. Personally I think fantasy and calm are the antithesis to Jaedong and Bisu. Jaedong/Bisu excel at precision and practice while Fantasy/Calm excel at strategy and flair. The great minds are still there - and they always have been there. I think its just harder to maintain dominance over a long period of time being a strategic player. Mostly because once people figure you out you need to change your entire style again to remain ahead of the curve. That constant process of reinvention is extremely difficult - which is why Fantasy remaining at the top for the past year time is so impressive (his TvZ never stops evolving, neither does his TvP). Calm has just broken out with his strategy - if he can keep developing his strategy and stay ahead of the curve he too will go on to be wildly successful.
Jaedong on the other hand hasn't brought anything new to the table since he's been at the top. And the thing is, because of his style, he doesn't need to. There are minor modifications like earlier hydras in TvZ to counter mech, but on the whole, his 2hatch muta style is still as viable as ever. This extends through to Bisu as well and so on.
I wouldn't worry if I were you - the strategic minds will always rise to the top. And strategy will always beat out raw mechanics; but once that strategy is worked out, then the mechanics will win once again. I think that partly explains why Jaedong lost to fantasy in the proleague, but was able to win in the OSL - if the order of those events were reversed I think we'd have a different result.
On September 19 2009 10:16 Chef wrote:
I think when Jaedong micro'd two sets of stacked mutalisks in two different places at once, I realised his 400 apm was not just a joke.
I don't know why anyone would be hesitant to proclaim Jaedong in league with the best players of all time. Sure, I have sAviOr nostalgia too.. But while sAviOr evokes an image of a grand conqueror, sitting high atop his chair and calling the shots, to me Jaedong brings to mind a gritty fighter who is in the fray everyday and is somehow surviving.
The climate of progaming has totally changed. When sAviOr was in charge, it was everyone's job to take him down. "This player is good" was always said ignoring sAviOr, because players simply weren't on his level for longer than a week. Some people went toe to toe with him, but until Bisu it never lasted.
Enter Jaedong, Flash, Bisu, Stork, and a host of others. Suddenly we've got lots of players who all have what it takes to beat each other. The micro, the macro, the strategy, are all amazing. No one is challenging the leader, but vying for the position of leader. The player who's remained impressive, and who's losses were followed by grand victories is Jaedong.
I don't think StarCraft is anything like it was in sAviOr's age. But definitely Jaedong has pulled ahead in what is probably the most difficult time in StarCraft to make a name for yourself. I really don't like it when people say that Starcraft is different now to savior's age - because its just not. Yes it was everyone's job to take down savior, but right now it's everyone's job to take out Jaedong. Savior had some really stiff competition in his time - Nada, Nal_ra, Chojja, Midas, Iris etc. Which is no different to today really.
I disagree that people didn't go toe to toe with savior for long periods of time - Nal_ra went mostly toe to toe for two seasons. Midas for the following 2, Nada went at savior really hard at the end of his reign and came out with a good result. Savior was the best player, and the fact that he won all the time is a testament to his greatness, but to say he wasn't pushed to his limit on occasion is very wrong - this is the exact same circumstances in which Jaedong is thriving.
On September 19 2009 10:26 barbahaba0 wrote:
was just wandering ....
were boxer nada and savior in their prime were called bonjwas
or was it after
no i'm not bringing this debate to the table just asking cause history will call him the 4th bonjwa
beautiful article plexa
enjoyed the reading of it bonjwa is a term applied in retrospect, so savior wasn't called a bonjwa when was in his prime - he was just known as the best 
after his prime though, he was classed among them
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There's a distinction you fail to make between hating to lose and the burning desire to win.
Maybe we just have different opinions, but if Jaedong is a lion then all he is interested in is the warm tasty blood of his opponent. That is the thrill. That is his prize.
Losing is not part of the equasion.
Enjoyed it.
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United States889 Posts
Plexa hwaiting.
Great article.
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Watching Jaedong play is what made me start playing starcraft again after nearly a decade to remember the joy in the game is still there and that Zerg is still the race true to my heart.
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great article
kinda reminded me of "heir apparent" from way back when.
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I think part of the reason that Jaedong can exist in Savior's shadow, is because Savior came first. People don't just feel awe when they remember Savior's dominance, they feel nostalgic. And that is a major factor.
I don't mean to speak for everyone here, as I'm sure that many would disagree, but if you look at the results of the All Stars vote, Savior isn't on top because he's the best Zerg, but because people remember him being the best.
The grass is greener on the other side and it's even more so when that 'other side' only exists in your memory.
edit - great read by the way. Thanks for posting that Plexa!
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the boxer's shadow and savior's shadow thing is a really good question . but i think jaedong can be more than that . nada had made years and years to get his success and results . jaedong had not . he had made his succes and results in 2 years or more . nada is nearly 6 years .
jaedong is changing , he is getting smarter and smarter , his instinct is growing more and more , he is showing some new face of starcraft . some psychologic , instinctive and determination face . jaedong is MUCH smarter than he was in 2007 . and he will be ever more . his brain is NOT his weakness . he is smarter than many others progamers . i think discuss about that is wrong right now , i think we have to wait the end of his career and see how his impact was .
i think his weakness is his personnality and integrity . in the jaedong vs fantasy PL round 4@heatbreak ridge , jaedong had avdantage but choose anyway to continue mutas until the death . if he swithched in a more classic way , he would have won easy . he know that , but he just wanted to crush fantasy in HIS way , in the way he CHOOSE . he wanted to crush fantasy with mutalisks just to humiliate him and get THE satisfaction he looked for .
i think we can say his stubborn is his weakness . but in my opinion its just integrity to himself .
i think jaedong has not finished to blow us . he blowed us about his micro and handspeed , he blowed us about his mental strengh and instinct . i think he can blow us on other stuffs . we just have to wait to see it .
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On September 19 2009 10:47 vaMpYr wrote:
i think jaedong has not finished to blow us . he blowed us about his micro and handspeed , he blowed us about his mental strengh and instinct . i think he can blow us on other stuffs . we just have to wait to see it .
I would recommend rephrasing that slightly; changing it to "blow our minds", or "amaze us". It just sounds, well, a little bit wrong, the other way.
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On September 19 2009 09:57 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2009 09:54 xMiragex wrote:
i totally disagree that jaedong is head and shoulders above bisu, but as much as im not very fond of jaedong i do admit hes the best. just like it was mentioned, his mental toughness is what makes him stand out. Great that you disagree - but why exactly? I've brought up a few examples of Bisu's play from the recent leagues which clearly show that there's still something fundamentally lacking from his game which is making him make too many mistakes. Jaedong's play is just that much more refined than Bisu's - indeed i think it's very telling that the deciding game of their GOM match was Bisu making a stupid mistake and throwing away the series.
Tbh to me not blocking properly is a similarly stupid mistake as accidentally cancelling your spire and losing because of that. Plus I think despite the mistakes Bisu made vs Iris he played great.
However, I still agree that Jaedong is a lvl above him and this was a great article to read, very nice job.
Oh and
+ Show Spoiler + muhahahahhahaha I told you he wouldn't slump 
On September 19 2009 10:53 jtype wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2009 10:47 vaMpYr wrote:
i think jaedong has not finished to blow us . he blowed us about his micro and handspeed , he blowed us about his mental strengh and instinct . i think he can blow us on other stuffs . we just have to wait to see it . I would recommend rephrasing that slightly; changing it to "blow our minds", or "amaze us". It just sounds, well, a little bit wrong, the other way.
tz tz, dirty french people...
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On September 19 2009 09:57 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2009 09:54 xMiragex wrote:
i totally disagree that jaedong is head and shoulders above bisu, but as much as im not very fond of jaedong i do admit hes the best. just like it was mentioned, his mental toughness is what makes him stand out. Great that you disagree - but why exactly? I've brought up a few examples of Bisu's play from the recent leagues which clearly show that there's still something fundamentally lacking from his game which is making him make too many mistakes. Jaedong's play is just that much more refined than Bisu's - indeed i think it's very telling that the deciding game of their GOM match was Bisu making a stupid mistake and throwing away the series.
I'd say the only real difference between Jaedong and Bisu's play is their consistency. Occasionally, Bisu will make strategic blunders that just make you go "WTF was he smoking?", but when both players are at the very top of their game, in a head to head match I would not give either player the advantage.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
Jaedong does remind me of a Nada.
Nada came into the scene like a Tornado and pummelled every single player into the ground. He detroyed zergs helplessly with his insane micro / macro. He out macroed / strategized Terrans. And he crushed Protoss with his massive macroed armies.
Before Iloveoov, Nada was THE CHEATER Terran. In a Kingdom vs Nada game, Korean commentators were laughing at Nada's 200/200 2/2 mech army A clicking from Nada's base into Kingdom's natural. It was typical Nada, nothing less from him was expected.
People would take games / series from Nada here and there, but he ALWAYS came back to defeat those same players not long after. No one was the favorite.
The exact same can be said about Jaedong. Nobody can understand Jaedong's cheater ZvZ. His ZvT is aggressively monstrous. His ZvP is powerful and still a favorite against any Protoss.
Jaedong came into the scene like a powerful Tornado and swept everything / everyone from his path.
1-2 more years from now, history will look back at Jaedong and call him
"The Last Bonjwa"
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Alright, that has been one of THE most awesome TLFE article of all time. Plexa, you've really outdone yourself this time. It was a great read.
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EPT
