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Here To Stay - Page 3

Forum Index > Final Edits
209 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-19 02:03:45
September 19 2009 02:01 GMT
#41
On September 19 2009 10:27 Plexa wrote:
Jaedong on the other hand hasn't brought anything new to the table since he's been at the top. And the thing is, because of his style, he doesn't need to. There are minor modifications like earlier hydras in TvZ to counter mech, but on the whole, his 2hatch muta style is still as viable as ever. This extends through to Bisu as well and so on.

On August 05 2009 10:00 EvoChamber wrote:

But you may be downplaying just how much Protoss was walking over Zerg before Jaedong's ascension at EVER. Yes, his vP was terrible before and up to game 1 against Stork. But as Hot_Bid pointed out in his FE, Jaedong learned ZvP right before our eyes in the finals of the most coveted prestigious league. Less than a month later, he proved the viability of 3hatch scourge->5hatch hydra against the world's best PvZer, Bisu, on Blue Storm and began the counter-revolution against forge FE that's reversed nearly all the advantages in strategy and morale that Bisu earned when he slaughtered Savior. At the same time, he was raping Terrans left and right with 2hatch muta and winning the great majority of his ZvZs. Only the sudden rise of Flash prevented him from winning both leagues that spring. It's possible that Jaedong's ZvP might still be abysmal if he had played Bisu in the EVER finals instead of Stork, but that's not what happened. Just as Flash would do in Bacchus, he used Stork to evolve his vP matchup to an S-class level and soon reversed the flow of the metagame (no more carriers vs. T, no more sair/dt vs. Z). Jaedong's strategic achievements (regression to 2hatch vs. T, expansion to 5hatch vs. P, complete paradigm shift vZ) are not as flashy as Savior's (3 hatch muta->lurker/defiler->ultra/ling vs. T, muta/lurk vs. P), but they have also had a great influence on the metagame. The reason 75% of OSL/MSL semifinalists are Zerg this season isn't just maps; it's also Jaedong, who proved that a focus on mechanics and execution could solve problems in the metagame that players with a broader strategic vision and weaker mechanics, like Savior, could not, or at the very least make those problems easier to solve.

Is a pretty good rebuttal to that.

Also Plexa, before you say it, JD was the one who showed that the way to counter sairs was with scourge. (Not the July vs Best game) Just see the JD vs Bisu game on BS.

Edit: Also, his zvp developments even lead for people like ret to understand and dominate the matchup now.

On July 29 2009 22:43 ret wrote:
Right now, I feel like my ZvP is easily my best matchup. And I owe it all to the Bisu vs Jaedong game on destination. I feel like there is nothing protoss can do that I can't counter.

I thank you:

LEE JAE DONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Moderator。◕‿◕。
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
September 19 2009 02:05 GMT
#42
And to all those arguing that Bisu isn't inferior to Jaedong.


Bisu vs Jaedong may be an even matchup. Just like how Yellow's stats vs Nada are even.


But Nada was the better player than Yellow. Nada won when it mattered.

Jaedong is better than Bisu. Jaedong wins when it matters.
We decide our own destiny
jtype
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
England2167 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-19 02:09:53
September 19 2009 02:06 GMT
#43
I think Bisu's style relies more upon breaking down his opponents psychologically, with moments of trickery and skillful maneuvers, whereas Jaedong's is more about applying constant, unrelenting and crushing pressure on his. Of course, the effects can often be the same, but the methods are different.

What does this mean for the two of them, with regards to their weaknesses? Well, as we've seen from Bisu, he seems to fall apart a little bit when his opponents don't crumble in the way (or at the time) he expects them to, ie. Bisu vs Iris, while Jaedong seems to not cope well (as Plexa pointed out) when his opponent refuses to submit to his pressure and dictatorial style, ie. JD vs Fantasy.

What does this mean for the two of them, with regards to them going head-to-head? It will always be an epic battle of wills; with both of them struggling, in their own way, to gain the psychological advantage over the other.

I don't think it's a case of which one will win, but rather which one will lose control first.
Mikilatov
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States3897 Posts
September 19 2009 02:08 GMT
#44
Amazing article as always Plexa, regardless of the time interval, it always feels like it's been too long since your last! Additional props for writing this even though you dislike Jaedong!
♥ I used to lasso the shit out of your tournaments =( ♥ | Much is my hero. | zizi yO~ | Be Nice, TL.
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10348 Posts
September 19 2009 02:11 GMT
#45
On September 19 2009 10:05 xMiragex wrote:

the point being, bisu lacks something not easily definable.


I can tell you what he lacks: they're called OSL titles. Oh no he didn't!

Great article, Plexa. Very happy to see some NaDa love, and I loved your comparison between him and Jaedong.

I still think Jaedong will only win one or two more titles, though. His team still stinks and he'll work himself to near-death just like before.

But my predictions are meaningless; I thought Jaedong would win the SPL Finals and lose in the OSL to fantasy. Oops.
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
Oystein
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Norway1602 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-19 02:27:22
September 19 2009 02:12 GMT
#46
On September 19 2009 11:05 Tien wrote:
And to all those arguing that Bisu isn't inferior to Jaedong.


Bisu vs Jaedong may be an even matchup. Just like how Yellow's stats vs Nada are even.


But Nada was the better player than Yellow. Nada won when it mattered.

Jaedong is better than Bisu. Jaedong wins when it matters.

Considering Bisu have won 4 of the 5 finals (with 2 of them vs the best vsP players at the time) hes entered I don`t think you can say he don`t win when it matters.... (Except for in the OSL, but he seems cursed to never win one)

Edit : Also amazing writeup as usual Plexa
God Hates a Coward
Felby
Profile Joined February 2009
Norway81 Posts
September 19 2009 02:15 GMT
#47
Plexa

deserves a medal
Alethios
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
New Zealand2765 Posts
September 19 2009 02:19 GMT
#48
Great article man. Not sure i'd entirely agree with your statistical analysis though. The All-Star poll results are some indication of popularity, but with many contaminants. For instance:

A bias towards players who are less often playing televised matches. People see less of Boxer, Yellow, Savior these days and want to see them play again.

Strategic voting bias. People look at the current tally, and see players missing out on the top spots. They then vote for these players because they want to see them in the tournament, not because they're voting for their favourite player.

Thanks for the write up.
When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love.
Perguvious
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1783 Posts
September 19 2009 02:21 GMT
#49
incredible writeup
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
September 19 2009 02:33 GMT
#50
On September 19 2009 11:19 Alethios wrote:
Great article man. Not sure i'd entirely agree with your statistical analysis though. The All-Star poll results are some indication of popularity, but with many contaminants. For instance:

A bias towards players who are less often playing televised matches. People see less of Boxer, Yellow, Savior these days and want to see them play again.

Strategic voting bias. People look at the current tally, and see players missing out on the top spots. They then vote for these players because they want to see them in the tournament, not because they're voting for their favourite player.

Thanks for the write up.


Yeah true, I didn't vote for Jaedong despite him being my favourite player by far, simply cause I was sure that Oz would send him out either way
beep boop
Leg[end]
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States241 Posts
September 19 2009 02:38 GMT
#51
Truly great, Plexa.
Legends Never Die ;;
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
September 19 2009 02:39 GMT
#52
This was a great article, but I feel like you seriously downplayed Iris' win over Bisu. Iris definitely brought his A game and his win was more of a product of his own abilities, than it was of Bisu's failings.
But you are totally right about Jaedong and I am sure that he will continue to show us how to play Starcraft next season.
Sullifam
miseiler
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1389 Posts
September 19 2009 02:40 GMT
#53
Eyes of a lion.

That roughly sums up everything about Jaedong. He simply wants to win more than anyone else playing Starcraft right now.
"Jinro soo manly wearing only a T-Shirt while the Koreans freeze in their jackets" -- Double_O
"He's from Sweden, man. We have to fight polar bears on our way to school." -- Yusername
Sigh
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2433 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-19 02:43:23
September 19 2009 02:42 GMT
#54
Amazing write-up. Nice to see you mentioned Nada! It's quite sad that he is often forgotten.
I can see Jaedong winning another OSL/MSL.
NaDa/Flash/Thorzain Fan
Spenguin
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia3316 Posts
September 19 2009 02:48 GMT
#55
As a rabid FE fan this is an awesome write-up Plexa, thank you so much.

As a rabid Savior fan, he is not put on the PL lineup, I believe, out of pity. He is put out there because he is a good player back at CJ headquarters when he practices.

< TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #46 > I came for the Brood War, I stayed for the people.
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
September 19 2009 02:52 GMT
#56
Man....I can't believe JD already has 3 OSLS and 1 MSL. Where has the time gone?
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
Triple7
Profile Joined April 2009
United States656 Posts
September 19 2009 02:55 GMT
#57
NaDa in BoxeR's shadow? I haven't seen a Boxer's Body thread!
Just kidding, BoxeR is everyone's favorite player!
지지이이이이이이이이이이이
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
September 19 2009 03:07 GMT
#58
Amazing article, it was a fantastic read.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-19 03:16:41
September 19 2009 03:12 GMT
#59
nice article

the exaggeration to extremes and biased statements did get annoying, though
Nony is Bonjwa
eNoq
Profile Joined June 2009
Netherlands502 Posts
September 19 2009 03:13 GMT
#60
Awesome read, truly amazing, thanks <3
Proburu
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