|
On September 10 2017 06:50 Vutalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 06:46 Solar424 wrote:
And so ends a miserable year. Didn't get past the Ro8 once all year. Hopefully she'll take some time off to clear her head and come back stronger next year. Well-said. Maybe start with not doing the ridiculous offrace thing again. Stick with your race and have a bit of faith in it. There are 5 out of 8 Top 8 WCS are Zerg. Clearly, the problem is not with the race but something else.
I mean, it's easy to say have some faith in your race but after 5 years if it hasn't come yet, it ain't coming.
I say give the protoss a full-time whirl
|
On September 10 2017 06:50 Vutalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 06:46 Solar424 wrote:
And so ends a miserable year. Didn't get past the Ro8 once all year. Hopefully she'll take some time off to clear her head and come back stronger next year. Well-said. Maybe start with not doing the ridiculous offrace thing again. Stick with your race and have a bit of faith in it. There are 5 out of 8 Top 8 WCS are Zerg. Clearly, the problem is not with the race but something else.
Offracing now and then isn't an issue whatsoever from my perspective, and according to people much better at the game than I am it probably helps a lot versus Protoss players like Harstem and versus #1 WCS Circuit Player Neeb. I expect her to keep playing both to some degree through the start of the next patch.
|
It'd be nice if there was a way to easily practice the multiple race thing. You can't set up the ladder to only get ZvP, ZvT and PvZ sadly.
|
It would be cool if there was a lobby/chat channel that players could enter and select which matchup they were looking to practice or which strategy they want to play against. Teammates are kinda the only way people get that kind of practice, but it isn't always so easy to do with travel and schedules and so on.
I remember that after she was practicing against Byun a lot she was destroying Terran players for a while, it would be great if more of that could happen.
|
Oh, idk if anyone goes to the front page these days, I added a couple of small things a little while ago. Nothing huge but they're, like, kinda neat.
|
On September 10 2017 06:50 Vutalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 06:46 Solar424 wrote:
And so ends a miserable year. Didn't get past the Ro8 once all year. Hopefully she'll take some time off to clear her head and come back stronger next year. Well-said. Maybe start with not doing the ridiculous offrace thing again. Stick with your race and have a bit of faith in it. There are 5 out of 8 Top 8 WCS are Zerg. Clearly, the problem is not with the race but something else.
Her issue isn't that zerg is weak, it's that she was losing almost every event to a ZvZ
If you want to win a foreigner tournament you have to beat a lot of zergs. There's no other way around this
|
Actually Aligulac contradicts what Fango just said. Her worst winning percentage is against Terran even though her most famous wins were against Terrans.
Overall-62%
Vs Protoss-64%
Vs Zerg-65%
Vs Terran-56%
The 2nd through 5th place circuit players are Zergs. Elazer-Serral-Nerchio-Snute and about half of the top 100 circuit players are Zergs.
So based on those numbers from Aliguac she is in the right place since top flight Terrans are few and far between on the circuit.
Remember also that the circuit was made easier with the retirement last year of Polt and Hydra who almost certainly would be in the final 8 this year if they were still playing full time. Then you have Snute who is probably past his prime at age 27 yet still in the thick of things and Nerchio who by his standards had a rather mediocre year. There is True who is not at all in the same league with the top Korean Zergs. If she was unable to crack the top this year perhaps she never will but she is trying to find any possibility of improvement.
I'll always be a huge fan though.
|
On September 11 2017 01:41 Rolltide wrote:
Actually Aligulac contradicts what Fango just said. Her worst winning percentage is against Terran even though her most famous wins were against Terrans.
Overall-62%
Vs Protoss-64%
Vs Zerg-65%
Vs Terran-56%
The 2nd through 5th place circuit players are Zergs. Elazer-Serral-Nerchio-Snute and about half of the top 100 circuit players are Zergs.
So based on those numbers from Aliguac she is in the right place since top flight Terrans are few and far between on the circuit.
Remember also that the circuit was made easier with the retirement last year of Polt and Hydra who almost certainly would be in the final 8 this year if they were still playing full time. Then you have Snute who is probably past his prime at age 27 yet still in the thick of things and Nerchio who by his standards had a rather mediocre year. There is True who is not at all in the same league with the top Korean Zergs. If she was unable to crack the top this year perhaps she never will but she is trying to find any possibility of improvement.
I'll always be a huge fan though.
(http://aligulac.com/players/23/results/?after=&before=&event=&race=z&country=foreigners&bestof=3&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=)
She indeed has great winrate in Z vs Z, but she struggle to get on top. That's the only thing that matters.
Look at the aligulac match history link above (I choose both offline results and online results), she lost against Serral, Elazer and Snute. So race switch might be a good solution after all.
|
She loses to Serral and Elazer simply because they are better than her not because of race.
No disrespect to Snute but the fact he can make the finals of a major circuit tournament suggests a weakness and lack of depth in the circuit. He did beat Elazer so I'll give him that.
Other than Neeb Protoss has not done well this year in circuit. Showtime had a disappointing year and Drogo will not be at Blizzcon either. I doubt she can be better at Protoss than they are.
She's trying to find that edge so give her credit.
|
On September 11 2017 01:41 Rolltide wrote:
Actually Aligulac contradicts what Fango just said. Her worst winning percentage is against Terran even though her most famous wins were against Terrans.
No it doesn't. I never say anything about winrates. I said she was losing most tournaments in matches against zerg. Which was true for 3/4 foreigner tournaments this year
Besides, she currently has a losing record against Elazer, Snute, Nerchio, Serral etc. All of the top zergs. You have to be able to beat those of kind of players to win a WCS circuit event. You can't avoid them like you can sometimes avoid terrans or protoss.
If Scarlett feels like she's too far behind the ZvZfest of europe then she may as well try something else. Most of those guys struggle/complain against protoss so I wouldn't blame her for switching
|
I don't understand your point at all. How is changing from a race she has played for years to a different one help her beat the top Zerg players outside of Korea? She dominates all the Zergs other than those top 4. She dominates all the 2nd tier Zergs and has a winning record against Bly, iAsonu and Cham and has beaten some Korean Zergs like True, Losira and Leenock. She beat True 2X in the Valencia qualifiers.
Let's make a similar argument regarding a player you know well, Zest. Zest had a horrible year and has had trouble all year except for a few isolated matches with the best 6-8 Terran players. So if Zest changed to Zerg that would help him with those players? Would it help him with Zerg players like Dark or Rogue? That would be retarded right?
I just don't see it. Even if she could improve slightly in her matches with good Zerg players how would she do in PvP vs Neeb, Drogo, Showtime, Mana et al? She would probably get beat up by those guys.
|
FYI the players Scarlett lost to, was eliminated by in the 4 biggest circuit tournaments.
In Austin she failed in the qualifiers losing to 2 2nd rate American players. Zerg John Snow and then Protoss Pilipili in the losers bracket.
In Jonkoping she lost to Elazer.
In Valencia she lost to Snute
In Montreal she lost to Neeb.
While the losses in Austin cannot be easily explained the other players are simply better than her. Neeb only lost 2 maps all tournament. She took one of them.
We all love Scarlett for her fighting spirit and competitive fire. We want her to do well as the only world class female player. She is simply not as solid as consistent rock solid pros like Snute and Nerchio and not as talented as Serrral and Elazer. Changing race will not help that fact.
|
Just wait and see. She needs a lot of time to reach the same level with protoss, years probably.
Expecting too much too soon, and reading too much into a protoss loss when she is at the beginning of competing heavily with this race is simply being unreasonable.
Also, her choices and instincts were very good in the past, this will also be a good one, it just takes a lot of time, struggle and practice. She has the tenacity already, results will come.
|
She will be 24 in 2 months. How does she have years to get better? She needs to make a living at this now.
Strategically Terran would be the race to change to. Very few good foreign Terrans and good practice with Terrans is not easy to come by even in the USA.
|
More people in her fan club and claiming she needs to do this, she needs to be this way, sigh. No. Ima just say no to that like I usually do. It's so silly.
The only thing I believe she needs to do is what she thinks is best for her. If she wants to make it to Blizzcon next year, which I think she would want to, then she just needs to practice more, play more, and think critically more, all things that she and other progamers do all the time. Whether she plays and practices as Zerg or Protoss or Terran is secondary to all of those other things and looking at Aligulac stats is the last thing anyone should be worrying about or pushing onto others, in my opinion.
She can definitely get extremely good with Protoss, she can definitely get better with Zerg, but nobody can say how good she can be with either of them except for her and the only way she can really figure that out is by playing both. And again, if for whatever reason she doesn't put up incredible results with one or the other, playing and understanding both still gives her a huge edge against most other players.
To me, it also shows that she's really thinking about everything she can do to be better. She doesn't point fingers at balance or game design or other players or accept that she's just not that good like a lot of other players have done over the years or still do. She's always thinking about everything she can do to improve herself, thinking about what's best for her, and she can do that a helluva lot better than any of us can.
|
Scarlett has been playing Starcraft 2 professionally for almost 6 years. She is about to turn 24. I just don't see much reason for improvement and dabbling in the idea of race change can only hurt her focus. All players need to play matches with the other races from time to time to stay in tune with them. That's all she should be doing.
Looking at the WCS standings there is a gap of over 1000 points between Special who is in 8th place and Cham and Scarlett who are in 9th and 10th place. That gap is probably representative of quality. True and Special are better than Cham and Scarlett right now.
She has nothing to feel bad about. She is about the 30th best player in the entire world and the only world class female player.
This is unheard of among the top Korean players to switch races well into a career. Innovation had a bad year in 2016. Can you imagine him changing to a Zerg player?
Just because she will never be as good a Zerg player as Dark is no reason to change races.
|
On September 12 2017 03:37 Rolltide wrote:
I don't understand your point at all. How is changing from a race she has played for years to a different one help her beat the top Zerg players outside of Korea? She dominates all the Zergs other than those top 4. She dominates all the 2nd tier Zergs and has a winning record against Bly, iAsonu and Cham and has beaten some Korean Zergs like True, Losira and Leenock. She beat True 2X in the Valencia qualifiers.
Let's make a similar argument regarding a player you know well, Zest. Zest had a horrible year and has had trouble all year except for a few isolated matches with the best 6-8 Terran players. So if Zest changed to Zerg that would help him with those players? Would it help him with Zerg players like Dark or Rogue? That would be retarded right?
I just don't see it. Even if she could improve slightly in her matches with good Zerg players how would she do in PvP vs Neeb, Drogo, Showtime, Mana et al? She would probably get beat up by those guys.
ZvZ is a very strange animal. If you're not good enough to win with it (which is a necessity for a foreign zerg player), then avoiding it may give you the edge. There is almost no chance at winning a foreigner tournament without beating the EU zergs. I don't see the issue if Scarlett feels like she has a better chance against them as protoss. Most of them complain about how much they struggle against protoss, and then grind out the ZvZfest that is EU ladder, anyway
On September 12 2017 16:19 Rolltide wrote:
Scarlett has been playing Starcraft 2 professionally for almost 6 years. She is about to turn 24. I just don't see much reason for improvement and dabbling in the idea of race change can only hurt her focus. All players need to play matches with the other races from time to time to stay in tune with them. That's all she should be doing.
Your reasoning would say that any raceswitch is a bad thing for a player. Even though we've seen countless times that it can help. Neeb used to be terran before LoTV, ByuN used to be protoss, Classic used to be terran, TLO used to be terran, Gumiho used to be random etc. How many times has a decent player switched races and then dropped of in form because it was a mistake? Not many, they all seem to switch because they have reasons to believe they'll do better
On September 12 2017 16:19 Rolltide wrote:
This is unheard of among the top Korean players to switch races well into a career. Innovation had a bad year in 2016. Can you imagine him changing to a Zerg player?
That's because you only hear about the players that have had success and get their name out there. Why would any player that's successful try to switch? Like say if Neeb said he was gonna switch to zerg I would say it's a bad thing, because he's already having insane success. But Scarlett isn't exactly winning WCS like she (probably) wants to. It would be sad to see her in a year from now in the exact same situation as now, still losing to zergs in tournaments, and wishing she had switched years ago.
Can you imagine if Neeb didn't switch to protoss for LoTV because people told him he's dedicated too many practice hours to terran already? And that he has nothing to feel bad about because he's doing good for his age or something?
(I will say that tip toeing around the idea and devoting lots of practice time to both may be a mistake. She should probably pick one and go for it. Whichever she picks is up to her)
|
|
|
Your reasoning would say that any raceswitch is a bad thing for a player. Even though we've seen countless times that it can help. Neeb used to be terran before LoTV, ByuN used to be protoss, Classic used to be terran, TLO used to be terran, Gumiho used to be random etc. How many times has a decent player switched races and then dropped of in form because it was a mistake? Not many, they all seem to switch because they have reasons to believe they'll do better
The only situation that even remotely is similar to Scarlett is Classic but classic was still just 21 when he made that change.
Using Neeb as an example is beyond ridiculous since he was only 16 when he made that change. Byun was in his teens when he switched to Terran. Gumiho and TLO made their switches back when SC2 was a new game.
You are assuming that Scarlett has the talent to be a better player. Or that she is under performing her talent level. She is a white girl from Canada. I would say she has over achieved as a player.
|
On September 13 2017 10:49 Rolltide wrote:Show nested quote +Your reasoning would say that any raceswitch is a bad thing for a player. Even though we've seen countless times that it can help. Neeb used to be terran before LoTV, ByuN used to be protoss, Classic used to be terran, TLO used to be terran, Gumiho used to be random etc. How many times has a decent player switched races and then dropped of in form because it was a mistake? Not many, they all seem to switch because they have reasons to believe they'll do better The only situation that even remotely is similar to Scarlett is Classic but classic was still just 21 when he made that change. Using Neeb as an example is beyond ridiculous since he was only 16 when he made that change. Byun was in his teens when he switched to Terran. Gumiho and TLO made their switches back when SC2 was a new game. You are assuming that Scarlett has the talent to be a better player. Or that she is under performing her talent level. She is a white girl from Canada. I would say she has over achieved as a player.
...
...
...
what?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
