EPTThe Sad Zealot Fan Club - Page 57
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11044 Posts
On November 22 2011 20:38 HolyArrow wrote: IMO we could easily cut the amount of balance arguments in half if people stopped coming in here and suggesting that the fanclub be closed, something that doesn't exactly seem appropriate for a fanclub. However, since the very foundation of the club is a mascot who is pretty much an embodiment of implications of imbalance, it's probably going to be hard to entirely separate this fanclub from balance whine. Though I realize that perhaps "Sad Zealot" represents Protoss simply not doing well rather than being underpowered, it's just too easy to make that connection. If this was the Idra Fanclub all the Terrans would be banned already. | ||
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cavalier117
United States430 Posts
On November 26 2011 12:07 Sabu113 wrote: If this was the Idra Fanclub all the Terrans would be banned already. If this was the IdrA fanclub, EVERYONE would be banned already... but since a TL admin made the fanclub..... well, this is what you get. | ||
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Arachne
South Africa426 Posts
Not gonna lie that was ridiculous for those that don't know + Show Spoiler + Naniwa @ Blizz cup + Show Spoiler + dropped out after doing some decent eco damage while having an expo up and fell to a 1 1 1 with good control, and then lost to a thor rush with terrible control by MMA. I don;t quite get how MMA can have that skill in TvZ and TvT and have barely any in TvP besides some Bo's... but anyways + Show Spoiler + I've said it before and been laughed at by my friends, but that last game proved it. P has NO efffective scouting. Take a map as large as Calm Before the storm, and basically Blizzard is pleading with us to go 3 gate robo every game before we take an expand. If we don't, we die to proxy thor rushes that look like 1/1/1's because our obs is still flying to their empty base. Even if P scouts that empty base, all it means is that the factory was proxied, and banshee's could STILL be on the way (The hellion was out n about, cant remember if it poked or not). Or lets say we scout a walled off front. Is this 1/1/1 or is this 1 base ghost push? is this 2 base ghost push? Is it sky terran? is it 1 rax expand? is it 2 rax expand? is it goody's mech style? The list goes on. Well, we have to wait until 6:40ish until hallucinate (warp and halluci fully chrono'd) is done to see WHAT WE NEED TO COUNTER. Or rather, we need to risk sending out that 1st obs at about 6 minutes to traipse across the map and see what's coming as it leaves the base. 1/1/1 and thor push hits at the same time, a slightly delayed 1/1/1 and a ghost push hits at the same time. What do we do? Do the same units even counter? Not that I've found. I am only a mid diamond Toss (i almost made masters at one stage  ... SO CLOSE!!!)) (I watch a lot of streams and come up with decent meta game strats b4 u T.T), but the fact that Naniwa saw ALL the indications for a 1/1/1 and was hit by something else entirely. MMA's control was bad enough that he let two thor's die surrounded by scv's not repairing it that I saw, and still won. And tbh, when it comes down to it, a race that uses more minerals then gas such as terran uses a +-200 mineral cost (estimated present value of a mule over its life) to instantly scout a surprisingly large area of a base (xelnaga it can cover about 75% of it, iirc), where an obs has to TRAVEL there, and hopefully not get spotted on the way, and costs 25 minerals 75 gas. or to put into semi mineral terms for comparison, where each 8 gas = +- 40 minerals, so a whopping 385 minerals for something that still has to travel there. Against the amount of marines he scouted, Naniwa needed that gas for OTHER units. What's worse Naniwa built two obs as well, that served no purpose that game, instead of 3 stalkers, trying to defend a push that as far as almost every other P can say he scouted as a 1/1/1 in the current meta-game, but wasn't. I ask you "What can P do?". and this isnt even dealing with PvZ (which is a personal problem mostly consisting of my inability to 2 base push like you apparently have to if you want to win -_- ) and the ability to tech switch uber fast:/ (That is more a theoretical discussion...  ) | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
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TaylorGangOrDie
United States104 Posts
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Yello
Germany7411 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:31 TheEconomist wrote: Bump Not gonna lie that was ridiculous for those that don't know + Show Spoiler + Naniwa @ Blizz cup + Show Spoiler + dropped out after doing some decent eco damage while having an expo up and fell to a 1 1 1 with good control, and then lost to a thor rush with terrible control by MMA. I don;t quite get how MMA can have that skill in TvZ and TvT and have barely any in TvP besides some Bo's... but anyways + Show Spoiler + I've said it before and been laughed at by my friends, but that last game proved it. P has NO efffective scouting. Take a map as large as Calm Before the storm, and basically Blizzard is pleading with us to go 3 gate robo every game before we take an expand. If we don't, we die to proxy thor rushes that look like 1/1/1's because our obs is still flying to their empty base. Even if P scouts that empty base, all it means is that the factory was proxied, and banshee's could STILL be on the way (The hellion was out n about, cant remember if it poked or not). Or lets say we scout a walled off front. Is this 1/1/1 or is this 1 base ghost push? is this 2 base ghost push? Is it sky terran? is it 1 rax expand? is it 2 rax expand? is it goody's mech style? The list goes on. Well, we have to wait until 6:40ish until hallucinate (warp and halluci fully chrono'd) is done to see WHAT WE NEED TO COUNTER. Or rather, we need to risk sending out that 1st obs at about 6 minutes to traipse across the map and see what's coming as it leaves the base. 1/1/1 and thor push hits at the same time, a slightly delayed 1/1/1 and a ghost push hits at the same time. What do we do? Do the same units even counter? Not that I've found. I am only a mid diamond Toss (i almost made masters at one stage ... SO CLOSE!!!)) (I watch a lot of streams and come up with decent meta game strats b4 u T.T), but the fact that Naniwa saw ALL the indications for a 1/1/1 and was hit by something else entirely. MMA's control was bad enough that he let two thor's die surrounded by scv's not repairing it that I saw, and still won. And tbh, when it comes down to it, a race that uses more minerals then gas such as terran uses a +-200 mineral cost (estimated present value of a mule over its life) to instantly scout a surprisingly large area of a base (xelnaga it can cover about 75% of it, iirc), where an obs has to TRAVEL there, and hopefully not get spotted on the way, and costs 25 minerals 75 gas. or to put into semi mineral terms for comparison, where each 8 gas = +- 40 minerals, so a whopping 385 minerals for something that still has to travel there. Against the amount of marines he scouted, Naniwa needed that gas for OTHER units. What's worse Naniwa built two obs as well, that served no purpose that game, instead of 3 stalkers, trying to defend a push that as far as almost every other P can say he scouted as a 1/1/1 in the current meta-game, but wasn't. I ask you "What can P do?". and this isnt even dealing with PvZ (which is a personal problem mostly consisting of my inability to 2 base push like you apparently have to if you want to win -_- ) and the ability to tech switch uber fast:/ (That is more a theoretical discussion... )hm, a nexus-first-build is so damn greedy, it's guessing that the terran does 1-rax-cc and can't pressure the toss. it was clearly a build-order-win for mma in that game. also about the scouting issue: protoss can just as easily proxy a robo (immortal-allin or warpprism-4-gate) or a stargate. i'm not talking about how effective these allins are, but scouting them is just as hard for terran as scouting for toss. | ||
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Patate
Canada441 Posts
On December 14 2011 17:32 Yello wrote: hm, a nexus-first-build is so damn greedy, it's guessing that the terran does 1-rax-cc and can't pressure the toss. it was clearly a build-order-win for mma in that game. also about the scouting issue: protoss can just as easily proxy a robo (immortal-allin or warpprism-4-gate) or a stargate. i'm not talking about how effective these allins are, but scouting them is just as hard for terran as scouting for toss. Not really, since Terrans can scout Toss very easily early game, they can see something is missing in his base and can proceed to be more careful. | ||
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Bruky
Czech Republic161 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Protoss have won 2 matches today, one was PvP and the other one was seven pool T_T | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On December 20 2011 10:59 Bruky wrote: So who watched up/down matches day 1? + Show Spoiler + Protoss have won 2 matches today, one was PvP and the other one was seven pool T_T + Show Spoiler + Really? Two games and we gotta complain OP/UP atm. Both HuK and Alicia played pretty badly, thats what happened. (DID YOU SEE ALICIA'S GAMES? WTFFFF) | ||
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DaRKMaTT3r
Brazil553 Posts
On December 20 2011 10:59 Bruky wrote: So who watched up/down matches day 1? + Show Spoiler + Protoss have won 2 matches today, one was PvP and the other one was seven pool T_T This fan club was never about protoss losing but protoss having no hope of winning. We have a few protoss comming out/back of the Code A and maybe a few from Up and Downs, current situation isnt bad, its not as good as Terran Camp, where everyone is always smiling and happy, but still not bad. Protoss hwaiting! | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Pretty much all PvT cheese strats are more than all-in and have a really bad % of winrate, while TvP works the opposite way. The lategame toss deathball has not been imba against competent players for months already. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
Honestly none of the protoss players in the last two days were very consistent at winning PvT | ||
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jkang
United States404 Posts
On December 20 2011 23:05 neoghaleon55 wrote: and Oz and Puzzle. I'm expecting Oz and MC to do pretty well. Hope Brown crushes zergsAt least we still have SlayersBrown and MC to cheer for next season. Honestly none of the protoss players in the last two days were very consistent at winning PvT | ||
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parazice
Thailand5517 Posts
let's hope Oz Puzzle Brown Mc can show something in next code-S | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
That would be Hero, Genius and Inca I guess. | ||
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Nightshake
France412 Posts
I've said it before and been laughed at by my friends, but that last game proved it. P has NO efffective scouting. Take a map as large as Calm Before the storm, and basically Blizzard is pleading with us to go 3 gate robo every game before we take an expand. If we don't, we die to proxy thor rushes that look like 1/1/1's because our obs is still flying to their empty base. Even if P scouts that empty base, all it means is that the factory was proxied, and banshee's could STILL be on the way (The hellion was out n about, cant remember if it poked or not). Or lets say we scout a walled off front. Is this 1/1/1 or is this 1 base ghost push? is this 2 base ghost push? Is it sky terran? is it 1 rax expand? is it 2 rax expand? is it goody's mech style? The list goes on. Well, we have to wait until 6:40ish until hallucinate (warp and halluci fully chrono'd) is done to see WHAT WE NEED TO COUNTER. Or rather, we need to risk sending out that 1st obs at about 6 minutes to traipse across the map and see what's coming as it leaves the base. 1/1/1 and thor push hits at the same time, a slightly delayed 1/1/1 and a ghost push hits at the same time. What do we do? Do the same units even counter? Not that I've found. I am only a mid diamond Toss (i almost made masters at one stage ... SO CLOSE!!!)) (I watch a lot of streams and come up with decent meta game strats b4 u T.T), but the fact that Naniwa saw ALL the indications for a 1/1/1 and was hit by something else entirely. MMA's control was bad enough that he let two thor's die surrounded by scv's not repairing it that I saw, and still won. And tbh, when it comes down to it, a race that uses more minerals then gas such as terran uses a +-200 mineral cost (estimated present value of a mule over its life) to instantly scout a surprisingly large area of a base (xelnaga it can cover about 75% of it, iirc), where an obs has to TRAVEL there, and hopefully not get spotted on the way, and costs 25 minerals 75 gas. or to put into semi mineral terms for comparison, where each 8 gas = +- 40 minerals, so a whopping 385 minerals for something that still has to travel there. Against the amount of marines he scouted, Naniwa needed that gas for OTHER units. What's worse Naniwa built two obs as well, that served no purpose that game, instead of 3 stalkers, trying to defend a push that as far as almost every other P can say he scouted as a 1/1/1 in the current meta-game, but wasn't. I ask you "What can P do?". WTF. I believe Protoss is REALLY not underpowered, but the Sad Zealot is cute. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + And then Inca goes and wins 2 games going DTs. IMO the opponents discarded that option because DTs are so bad?... meta'd | ||
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HK_TPZ
48 Posts
Meanwhile, in camp P, I open FFE, spend my money wisely, cb's intelligently, pressures into third with Blink + Immortal. Even with defender's & upgrade advantage, I couldnt hold his roach a-move... Sign me up | ||
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